Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 3:21 PM, Thomas Kurz wrote: > >> What'da ya think? > > That's a great idea. I've already had some concerns that SQLite development > might cease now. Hoping for great new features in the next release :-) MERGE! :D ___

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

> What'da ya think? That's a great idea. I've already had some concerns that SQLite development might cease now. Hoping for great new features in the next release :-) -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org ___ sqlite-users mailing list

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

Hey, Y'all: Thanks for all the input. But we've strayed off-topic. In keeping with both the Code of Conduct and the Code of Ethics, maybe its time we shut this discussion down (or move it to some other venue) and get back to talking about the worlds greatest embedded database. What'da ya

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 26/10/2018 11:02 PM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote: On 26/10/2018 14:12, Philip Warner wrote: I agree with the humour. As a satirical statement on the horrors of building a good CoC/CoE it is quite effective. But...if it is a CoC/E, then I think it would be beneficial to have one that many

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 26/10/2018 14:12, Philip Warner wrote: On 25/10/2018 9:59 PM, Mike King wrote: I’m a good atheist but I love the CoC. Not bothered by the religious bits but I get the sentiment. I guess it appeals to my British sense of irony and odd sense of humour :) I agree with the humour. As a

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On Friday, 26 October, 2018 03:57, Petite Abeille wrote: >> On Oct 26, 2018, at 5:12 AM, Philip Warner >wrote: >> knowingly and deliberately ignoring large chunks, and broadly >> disagreeing with even more, and laughing at the rest. > Bah… Everything Is Amazing And Nobody Is Happy: >

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 5:12 AM, Philip Warner wrote: > > knowingly and deliberately ignoring large chunks, and broadly disagreeing > with even more, and laughing at the rest. Bah… Everything Is Amazing And Nobody Is Happy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUBtKNzoKZ4

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 25/10/2018 9:59 PM, Mike King wrote: I’m a good atheist but I love the CoC. Not bothered by the religious bits but I get the sentiment. I guess it appeals to my British sense of irony and odd sense of humour :) I agree with the humour. As a satirical statement on the horrors of building a

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

> On Oct 25, 2018, at 1:20 PM, Mike King wrote: > > I’m more a Mr Creosote kind of guy. Wafer thin mint anybody? :) Please bring your own bucket. This is SQL*lite*. :P ___ sqlite-users mailing list sqlite-users@mailinglists.sqlite.org

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

I’m more a Mr Creosote kind of guy. Wafer thin mint anybody? :) On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 at 12:08, Petite Abeille wrote: > > > > On Oct 25, 2018, at 12:59 PM, Mike King wrote: > > > > The beer is bloody good and very strong. > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." > —

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

> On Oct 25, 2018, at 12:59 PM, Mike King wrote: > > The beer is bloody good and very strong. "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." — Benjamin Franklin, allegedly https://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/06/24/beer-wine/ > Also, I’m happy to report I didn’t go up in flames

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

I’m a good atheist but I love the CoC. Not bothered by the religious bits but I get the sentiment. I guess it appeals to my British sense of irony and odd sense of humour :) As for the Trappist beer our local Monastery (St Bernards, Whitwick) has just started the first trappist brewery in the uk.

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

> On Oct 25, 2018, at 8:33 AM, Philip Warner wrote: > >> The second exhortation tells us that that's not enough, and we also have a >> duty to maximise pleasure. > > lol, good point. Quite the opposite of monkish orders. And yet… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trappist_beer Let SQLite be

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 25/10/2018 11:06 AM, Simon Slavin wrote: The second exhortation tells us that that's not enough, and we also have a duty to maximise pleasure. lol, good point. Quite the opposite of monkish orders. ___ sqlite-users mailing list

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 25 Oct 2018, at 12:16am, Philip Warner wrote: > t leads to the question: have you ever seen one that works better than, say, > "Don't be an arsehole/dick/evil"? In most jurisdictions sexual harassment, > murder etc are already illegal...so repeating them in a CoE/C seems redundant. The

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 25/10/2018 2:17 AM, Jens Alfke wrote: Vague blanket statements like “Don’t be evil” or “Be excellent to each other” don’t work (here or anywhere else.) This is a good point. But it leads to the question: have you ever seen one that works better than, say, "Don't be an

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 25/10/2018 9:11 AM, Richard Hipp wrote: If you read the original CoC closely, you will find things that required me to change it. We have: 18. Be a help in times of trouble 19. Console the sorrowing 31. Love your enemies 34. Be not proud 71. Make peace with your adversary

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

See, this is where I miss being able to non-intrusively add a heart emoji to your post. Here it is anyway: ❤ Wout. On Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 12:11 AM Richard Hipp wrote: > On 10/24/18, Michael Falconer wrote: > > > > it's all gone...while my devout atheism is generally pleased my > > somewhat

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 10/24/18, Michael Falconer wrote: > > it's all gone...while my devout atheism is generally pleased my > somewhat annoying 'free will, free speech ' ethic has rust on it! Richard, > it's your joint and it's such a good place, friendly and mostly respectful. > My atheism was NOT offended in

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

Oh dear, it's all gone...while my devout atheism is generally pleased my somewhat annoying 'free will, free speech ' ethic has rust on it! Richard, it's your joint and it's such a good place, friendly and mostly respectful. My atheism was NOT offended in any way by all that God speak and I do

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

The one I usually see as being referred to as being "political" is the Contributor Covenant - https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct From reading it, while it does have some specifics, it has all the exact same problems you're highlighting "Don't be evil" has. Why?

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

Or a capture card. On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 21:28 Brian Chrzanowski Probably a virtual machine. > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:27 PM R Smith wrote: > > > > > On 2018/10/24 8:19 PM, Stephen Chrzanowski wrote: > > > ..// without users consent. ... unlike... > > > > > >

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

Probably a virtual machine. On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:27 PM R Smith wrote: > > On 2018/10/24 8:19 PM, Stephen Chrzanowski wrote: > > ..// without users consent. ... unlike... > > > https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Windows10-BSOD-640x353.jpg > > How did you take a screenshot

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 2018/10/24 8:19 PM, Stephen Chrzanowski wrote: ..// without users consent. ... unlike... https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Windows10-BSOD-640x353.jpg How did you take a screenshot while Windows was hanging/recovering? I call foul! (Or is that a new Windows 10

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

I like this. If I were to use this (And I don't expect I'll ever have to since I typically write just for me) the only addition I'd make to this is about the reporting. From a users perspective, if the utility has something to report "home" with (lets say crash reports), it'd have to be

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

Code Of Conduct, misplaced disposition on the individuals of an organization rather than the results of their work on intent. I have had a simple statement with my open source software downloads for years. "Dandy Made Productions would like to assure individuals that any applications downloaded

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

Richard, thank you for your further explanation of your team's Code of Conduct. After a bit of research on the Internet, everything makes sense. Well done. regs, Kev ___ sqlite-users mailing list sqlite-users@mailinglists.sqlite.org

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

> On Oct 22, 2018, at 10:04 PM, Paul wrote: > > If my opinion has any value, even though being atheist, I prefer this CoC 100 > times over > the CoC that is being currently pushed onto the many open-source communities, > that was > created by some purple-headed feminist with political

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 1:55 PM Jan Danielsson wrote: > > Lets not pretend the rules are from English origin please. --DD > >I don't think that was what Wout meant. Read "Ye Olde English" as > "Aesthetically 'old'", not "use the original". Point was merely to give > some visual clues to

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 2018-10-24 13:42, Dominique Devienne wrote: > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 1:10 PM Wout Mertens wrote: >> [...] write the rules in Ye Olde English. [..] > > He was "Italian", and more likely to write in Latin, not English, old or > new. > The SQLite doc is English only because that's DRH native

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 1:10 PM Wout Mertens wrote: > [...] write the rules in Ye Olde English. [..] > He was "Italian", and more likely to write in Latin, not English, old or new. The SQLite doc is English only because that's DRH native tong (I assume). Lets not pretend the rules are from

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

> On the other hand, I am open to suggestions on how to express > those values in a way that modern twitter-ites can better understand Probably via selfie, with a duckface, together with your evening meal in the background. On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 4:30 PM Richard Hipp wrote: > On 10/22/18,

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

I think a lot of confusion could have been avoided by putting the text of the CoC in a separate box, and for extra effect use a parchment paper background, something like the Papyrus font and write the rules in Ye Olde English. Right now it looks as if the rules were written specifically for

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

I think the big problem with this CoC is that it triggers Poe's Law - it's impossible to tell if it's serious or a joke without further context. I know I spent a good 10 minutes trying to decide either way when I first saw this thread a few days ago; now I know from the below post that it's

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

> > I found code of conduct in documentation and I was wondering if it were > true. Checking the version history it appears to have been added on > 2018-02-22. > Sure that publishing date wasn't 2018-04-01? On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 08:02, Stefan Evert wrote: > > > On 23 Oct 2018, at 07:04, Paul

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

> On 23 Oct 2018, at 07:04, Paul wrote: > > If my opinion has any value, even though being atheist, I prefer this CoC 100 > times over > the CoC that is being currently pushed onto the many open-source communities, > that was > created by some purple-headed feminist with political motives.

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

I'm guessing this is an appropriately satirical response to a ridiculous request from corporates. If not, then: - ditch all the religious mumbo-jumbo: 1, 10, 21, 41, 42, 44, 45, 46, 49, 50, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 70, 72 - and probably the masochism: 11 - and probably "Do not swear, for fear of

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

If my opinion has any value, even though being atheist, I prefer this CoC 100 times over the CoC that is being currently pushed onto the many open-source communities, that was created by some purple-headed feminist with political motives. This one does not have any hidden intentions (at least,

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

I think Donald Knuth would approve. On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 8:01 PM D Burgess wrote: > > The CoC is fine. Don't change it. > +1 > ___ > sqlite-users mailing list > sqlite-users@mailinglists.sqlite.org >

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

> The CoC is fine. Don't change it. +1 ___ sqlite-users mailing list sqlite-users@mailinglists.sqlite.org http://mailinglists.sqlite.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

> On Oct 22, 2018, at 11:31 PM, Simon Slavin wrote: > > And now has reached the summit of Slashdot's front page: Slow news day. Good night, and good luck. ___ sqlite-users mailing list sqlite-users@mailinglists.sqlite.org

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

> On Oct 22, 2018, at 10:32 PM, Donald Shepherd > wrote: > > It's disappointing Why so serious? Plus, really, what have the romans ever done for us? ___ sqlite-users mailing list sqlite-users@mailinglists.sqlite.org

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 22 Oct 2018, at 10:05pm, Richard Hipp wrote: > It even made TheRegister: > https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/22/sqlite_code_of_conduct/ And now has reached the summit of Slashdot's front page:

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 10/19/18, Simon Slavin wrote: > > Yeah, that's gonna magically appear on Hacker News within the month. For > those curious ... It even made TheRegister: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/22/sqlite_code_of_conduct/ -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 2018-10-22 10:29 AM, Richard Hipp wrote: In summary: The values expressed by the current CoC have been unchanged for decades and will not be changing as we move forward. If some people are uncomfortable with those values, then I am very sorry for them, but that does not change the fact.

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

It's disappointing that some are using discussion on a (perfectly acceptable) CoC to turn it into an excuse to post "jokes" about other people's beliefs, but whatever floats your boat. Regards, Donald Shepherd. On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 07:05, Charles Leifer wrote: > I dig the new CoC (not that

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

I dig the new CoC (not that anyone's counting). I'll share my comment from HN: If the code of conduct angers you, stop and think -- how did you feel one minute before you read the CoC? Is the problem really the CoC, or is it your collection of beliefs that is causing the problem? Furthermore,

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

> On Oct 22, 2018, at 9:43 PM, Rob Dixon wrote: > > weird and antagonistic Thank you for the kind words of support. Your wisdom and insights will be missed. Farewell Rob Dixon. Godspeed. ___ sqlite-users mailing list

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

Thank you Simon, I will. SQL compact will do just fine for me. Funny, I used to advocate for using SQLite. Now that I know more about the people involved with it, I want nothing do to with it. Best of luck being weird and antagonistic. On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 1:22 PM R Smith wrote: > > On

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:22 PM R Smith wrote: > > On 2018/10/22 7:09 PM, Simon Slavin wrote: > > > > If you're not going to accept those rules, in exactly the translation > used, you might as well pick something entirely different. > > > > Simon. > > Indeed. Further to this, as I understand a

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 2018/10/22 7:09 PM, Simon Slavin wrote: If you're not going to accept those rules, in exactly the translation used, you might as well pick something entirely different. Simon. Indeed. Further to this, as I understand a CoC, it's basically the core entity informing whomever be so

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

You would have had more luck with "Be excellent to each other". ___ sqlite-users mailing list sqlite-users@mailinglists.sqlite.org http://mailinglists.sqlite.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

I really feel for you, DRH. You tried covering all the bases, unfortunately, you going to get tagged out at everyone because everybody is referee and they all follow their own rules.This goes straight to your first point, "What is professional to some might be unprofessional to others." This akin

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

Funny world that one needs a code of contact to be considered civilized. No need to defend your CoC. I see it as a non-exhaustive list of values important to the developers. That they are Christian-based gives some context for their interpretation. Can't see any fault in that. I may or may

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

-users-boun...@mailinglists.sqlite.org] On Behalf Of Richard Hipp Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 11:29 AM To: SQLite mailing list Subject: Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC On 10/22/18, Chris Brody wrote: >> Looks like that happened this morning. >> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=182735

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

SQLite lost a lot of credibility with a lot of people over this stunt. I know you think it doesn’t matter, but SQLite is a brand- this tarnishes that brand and makes life more difficult for those of us who need to justify using it to project stakeholders. If it is a serious CoC, stakeholders see a

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

> On Oct 22, 2018, at 5:29 PM, Richard Hipp wrote: > > In summary Leave it as it is, no one is going to loose sleep over it. Now, about that MERGE command... :) ___ sqlite-users mailing list sqlite-users@mailinglists.sqlite.org

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 22 Oct 2018, at 5:32pm, someone wrote: > I would vote for a major simplification There's no point. The point of the code a posted is that it is a direct copy of the code of St. Benedict, the rules (allowing for translation from the Latin) which have been accepted by Benedictine monks for

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

I would vote for a major simplification, down to something like "love thy neighbor", "do unto others as ...", or "don't do unto others as ..." For reference: * https://www.simpletoremember.com/jewish/blog/loving-thy-neighbor-judaism/ *

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 22 Oct 2018, at 1:19pm, Richard Hipp wrote: > Looks like that happened this morning. > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18273530 It also hit Reddit, in /r/programming. Currently 239 comments:

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 10/22/18, Chris Brody wrote: >> Looks like that happened this morning. >> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18273530 > > I saw it coming, tried to warn you guys in private. There is indeed a reactionary hate mob forming on twitter. But most of the thoughtful commentators have been

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

> Looks like that happened this morning. > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18273530 I saw it coming, tried to warn you guys in private. ___ sqlite-users mailing list sqlite-users@mailinglists.sqlite.org

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

To be fair, internet is considered to be series of reposts. On Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 15:20 Richard Hipp On 10/19/18, Simon Slavin wrote: > > > > Yeah, that's gonna magically appear on Hacker News within the month. For > > those curious ... > > > > Looks like that happened this morning. >

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 10/19/18, Simon Slavin wrote: > > Yeah, that's gonna magically appear on Hacker News within the month. For > those curious ... > Looks like that happened this morning. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18273530 -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 at 19:52, Mantas Gridinas wrote: > I found code of conduct in documentation and I was wondering if it were > true. Checking the version history it appears to have been added on > 2018-02-22. > > 23. Do not nurse a grudge. ::sigh:: DROP TABLE grudges; I was amassing such a

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On Oct 19, 2018 11:00 PM, "Roger Schlueter" wrote: There's no atheists/freethinkers at SQLite? There's at least one (me), but they can simply ignore all the God-related rules, easy. It gets a bit harder for Hindus though, they have to mentally add "(your favorite for this use case)" in front

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

> On Oct 19, 2018, at 11:05 PM, Wout Mertens wrote: > > I can live with that. Yes, let’s get along for once. In the memorable words of President Dale: "Why can't we work out our differences? Why can't we work things out? Little forum people, why can't we all just get along?” Mars Attacks!

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

Well in the preface it does say that full compliance is near impossible and not required. I wouldn't call it antagonistic, it has many rules that are very inclusive of anyone. I must say it's a bit messy though, there are quite a few rules and not all of them are nicely orthogonal. Most of them

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

There's no atheists/freethinkers at SQLite? If the second half of 54 is observed, it would be a dreary world indeed. Roger On 10/19/2018 10:30, Simon Slavin wrote: On 19 Oct 2018, at 6:26pm, Andrew Brown wrote: I looked it up, wondering what it would say, and I have to say, I love it.

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

How come it hadn't yet? On Fri, Oct 19, 2018, 20:30 Simon Slavin wrote: > On 19 Oct 2018, at 6:26pm, Andrew Brown > wrote: > > > I looked it up, wondering what it would say, and I have to say, I love > it. > > Yeah, that's gonna magically appear on Hacker News within the month. For > those

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

As if I needed another reason for SQLite to be my favorite database. Well done. On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:11 AM Richard Hipp wrote: > On 10/19/18, Mantas Gridinas wrote: > > > > I found code of conduct in documentation and I was wondering if it were > > true. Checking the version history it

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

I have to admit I was a lot more excited about the concept of SQLite having a Code of Conduct until I actually read it. Regardless of the fact that I seem to fail a great many of its provisions, it seems fairly deaf—if not antagonistic—to the issues of our times that have created demand for

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 19 Oct 2018, at 6:26pm, Andrew Brown wrote: > I looked it up, wondering what it would say, and I have to say, I love it. Yeah, that's gonna magically appear on Hacker News within the month. For those curious ... Simon.

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

I looked it up, wondering what it would say, and I have to say, I love it. On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 7:11 AM Richard Hipp wrote: > On 10/19/18, Mantas Gridinas wrote: > > > > I found code of conduct in documentation and I was wondering if it were > > true. Checking the version history it appears

Re: [sqlite] Regarding CoC

On 10/19/18, Mantas Gridinas wrote: > > I found code of conduct in documentation and I was wondering if it were > true. Checking the version history it appears to have been added on > 2018-02-22. > Yes. Clients were encouraging me to have a code of conduct. (Having a CoC seems to be a trendy

[sqlite] Regarding CoC

Hi! I found code of conduct in documentation and I was wondering if it were true. Checking the version history it appears to have been added on 2018-02-22. Cheers ___ sqlite-users mailing list sqlite-users@mailinglists.sqlite.org