[Standards] Veto on Privileged Entity

2014-12-16 Thread Dave Cridland
Folks, At the last Council meeting, I entered a position of -1 concerning Privileged Entity: http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/privilege-component.html In order to explain my position better, it's worth examining how authorization systems currently model the world. I'm going to use XACML terms

Re: [Standards] Veto on Privileged Entity

2014-12-16 Thread Goffi
Hi Dave, even if I understand your point of view, I have the feeling to see the famous XKCD strip: let's do a new standard which cover everyones use cases (situation: 15 competing standards) ! The XACML protocol is more than 150 pages, I can't see any XEP adapting this to XMPP coming before

Re: [Standards] Veto on Privileged Entity

2014-12-16 Thread Dave Cridland
On 16 Dec 2014 18:03, Goffi go...@goffi.org wrote: even if I understand your point of view, I have the feeling to see the famous XKCD strip: let's do a new standard which cover everyones use cases (situation: 15 competing standards) ! That's actually what I'm trying to avoid; we currently

Re: [Standards] Veto on Privileged Entity

2014-12-16 Thread Kurt Zeilenga
On Dec 16, 2014, at 10:02 AM, Goffi go...@goffi.org wrote: I'm curious to see some other opinions on this subject. While I have not formed a particular opinion with regards to the ProtoXEP worthiness to become a XEP or not as I simply have not read it, I am generally of the opinion that

Re: [Standards] Veto on Privileged Entity

2014-12-16 Thread Dave Cridland
On 16 December 2014 at 18:24, Kurt Zeilenga kurt.zeile...@isode.com wrote: On Dec 16, 2014, at 10:02 AM, Goffi go...@goffi.org wrote: I'm curious to see some other opinions on this subject. While I have not formed a particular opinion with regards to the ProtoXEP worthiness to become

Re: [Standards] Veto on Privileged Entity

2014-12-16 Thread Kurt Zeilenga
On Dec 16, 2014, at 10:48 AM, Dave Cridland d...@cridland.net wrote: On 16 December 2014 at 18:24, Kurt Zeilenga kurt.zeile...@isode.com mailto:kurt.zeile...@isode.com wrote: On Dec 16, 2014, at 10:02 AM, Goffi go...@goffi.org mailto:go...@goffi.org wrote: I'm curious to

Re: [Standards] Veto on Privileged Entity

2014-12-16 Thread Dave Cridland
On 16 Dec 2014 20:23, Kurt Zeilenga kurt.zeile...@isode.com wrote: You have provided no suggestions to the authors of how they might take change the ProtoXEP to address your objections. Okay, I thought I had given the general actions I'd like to see, but I'll rephrase. The specification

Re: [Standards] Veto on Privileged Entity

2014-12-16 Thread Kurt Zeilenga
On Dec 16, 2014, at 1:07 PM, Dave Cridland d...@cridland.net wrote: On 16 Dec 2014 20:23, Kurt Zeilenga kurt.zeile...@isode.com mailto:kurt.zeile...@isode.com wrote: You have provided no suggestions to the authors of how they might take change the ProtoXEP to address your objections.

Re: [Standards] LAST CALL: XEP-0319 (Last User Interaction in Presence)

2014-12-16 Thread Lance Stout
1. Is this specification needed to fill gaps in the XMPP protocol stack or to clarify an existing protocol? It removes several sources of ambiguity from XEP-0256, which have been discussed on standards@ before (e.g., http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2012-October/026887.html) 2.

Re: [Standards] Veto on Privileged Entity

2014-12-16 Thread Dave Cridland
On 16 Dec 2014 21:21, Kurt Zeilenga kurt.zeile...@isode.com wrote: And can I draw the conclusion you think XACML is the “standard industry model and terms” specification that you want this work “recast” in? No, but it uses the same ABAC model as of NIST and others. None of these specifications

Re: [Standards] Veto on Privileged Entity

2014-12-16 Thread Dave Cridland
On 16 December 2014 at 22:05, Dave Cridland d...@cridland.net wrote: On 16 Dec 2014 21:21, Kurt Zeilenga kurt.zeile...@isode.com wrote: And can I draw the conclusion you think XACML is the “standard industry model and terms” specification that you want this work “recast” in? No, but it uses

Re: [Standards] Veto on Privileged Entity

2014-12-16 Thread Kurt Zeilenga
While your OP implies that “we” (presumedly “the community”) should take a step back and consider model and terminology issues, in your latest comments, it seems more that you want the authors to adopt a this model and terminology you originally wanted “we” to consider. While I would not have