Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: Message Fastening

2019-12-12 Thread Kevin Smith
Thanks for the feedback. I don’t want to ignore this, but was trying to digest bits. > On 12 Dec 2019, at 12:10, Marvin W wrote: > > On 12/11/19 6:50 PM, Kevin Smith wrote: >>> The business rules in §4 say that a Fastening can not have a Fastening >>> themselves. If both message attaching, reac

Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: Message Fastening

2019-12-12 Thread Ruslan Marchenko
Am Mittwoch, den 11.12.2019, 17:10 + schrieb Kevin Smith: > > On 9 Sep 2019, at 20:37, Florian Schmaus wrote: > > Furthermore, xep359 makes it very clear > > that xep359-IDs are just unique and stable within the scope of the > > id-assigning-entity (this allows implementations to use simple >

Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: Message Fastening

2019-12-12 Thread Kevin Smith
On 12 Dec 2019, at 15:08, Dave Cridland wrote: > > On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 at 12:11, Marvin W mailto:x...@larma.de>> > wrote: > I think the question this comes down to is, what we want to build using > fastenings. I don't want reactions to reactions, but if we allow some > sort of "comment" as a F

Re: [Standards] A Meta-Discussion about the Standards Process

2019-12-12 Thread Daniel Gultsch
Am Do., 12. Dez. 2019 um 09:24 Uhr schrieb Dave Cridland : > 1) The "Florian Plan" - introduce a phase prior to Experimental, wherein a > XEP is semi-adopted but remains without a number. This somewhat happens > anyway, but it does so outside our IPR rules, so arguably this is a case of > forma

Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: Message Fastening

2019-12-12 Thread Philipp Hörist
Hi, I am just realizing that all these magic server features are incompatible to encryptions which use ratchet mechanisms. Because those depend on messages received in order. So for example OMEMO could never use these archive features, I don't think we can do anything about that. We still have Op

Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: Message Fastening

2019-12-12 Thread Dave Cridland
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 at 12:11, Marvin W wrote: > I think the question this comes down to is, what we want to build using > fastenings. I don't want reactions to reactions, but if we allow some > sort of "comment" as a Fastening, then we should also allow reactions to > such comments. > > Interesti

Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: Message Fastening

2019-12-12 Thread Marvin W
On 12/12/19 2:53 PM, Philipp Hörist wrote: This is a pretty substantial feature so to fallback to a "Download the whole archive" approach to make it work is not a good solution for me and will probably lead to fastening not working with full stanza encryption The solution for me is to separate

Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: Message Fastening

2019-12-12 Thread Kevin Smith
Thanks Philipp. On 12 Dec 2019, at 13:53, Philipp Hörist wrote: > The solution for me is to separate metadata and content > > lets do something like > > to="chatroom@chatservice.example"> > > > Very much > > This seems like a good compromise, I’ll incorporate similar, thanks. (I

Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: Message Fastening

2019-12-12 Thread Philipp Hörist
Hi, The current approach is not good for full stanza encryption. And we have to assume full stanza encryption will become the norm at some point so any proposal should have that in mind. Full stanza encryption does not mean Full stanza encryption. There are elements that are never encrypted, for e

Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: Message Fastening

2019-12-12 Thread Marvin W
On 12/11/19 6:50 PM, Kevin Smith wrote: The business rules in §4 say that a Fastening can not have a Fastening themselves. If both message attaching, reactions and others are realized using Fastening, this implies that you can not react to an attached message, for example you would not be able to

Re: [Standards] A Meta-Discussion about the Standards Process

2019-12-12 Thread Kevin Smith
On 12 Dec 2019, at 09:22, Dave Cridland wrote: > > Many moons past, we had a clever idea. > > What we thought was that we should change the XML namespace system we used - > previously, XEPs had been allocated a namespace when adopted, and they stuck > with this namespace throughout. Sometimes

[Standards] A Meta-Discussion about the Standards Process

2019-12-12 Thread Dave Cridland
Many moons past, we had a clever idea. What we thought was that we should change the XML namespace system we used - previously, XEPs had been allocated a namespace when adopted, and they stuck with this namespace throughout. Sometimes this broke things during Experimental (indeed, if a XEP had to