On Wed, 29 May 2024 at 19:41, Marvin W wrote:
> On Wed, 2024-05-29 at 08:57 -0500, Stephen Paul Weber wrote:
> >
> > I disagree. I think it is a chatroom.
>
> A user is not a chatroom. A chatroom is something where users join and
> leave and send messages to that are received by other currently
Early on in our implementation of our group chat protocol, we had a
separate 'send messages' and 'receive messages' rights, but then decided
that no chat entity would be necessary that would not have a capability to
receive all messages and we opted out of it in implementation. The case
presented
Well, on the other hand, since the only scenario I can imagine using
in the wild has significantly different semantics from
readdisplayed
markers, I think that this is not really necessary in this XEP.
On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 at 17:34, Daniel Gultsch wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 1:11 PM Dave
As I said earlier, some day down the road can actually be
useful:
> But I could see this feature useful for something like voice/video
messages to indicate that it has been played by the recipient. At least,
Telegram does have such feature (not in group chats though, there it makes
no sense and
We use Chat Markers extensively. For what it's worth, I think that it was a
bad idea to remove to not replicate XEP-0184, because reading
one spec is better for developers than reading two, and I'd rather revert
changes back to 0.4 and deprecated 0184 instead.
Also, Displayed Markers (was: Chat
erested in the raw
> count returned by RSM than the individual messages.
>
> Any thought ?
>
> Regards,
> Simon
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nd, wrote:
>
>
> On 04.02.22 11:20, Andrew Nenakhov wrote:
>
> 1. From what I've seen, CoCs are used so silence or scare into silence
> people with differing political opinions (so much for tolerance). The
> language of this CoC, too, is too broad and allows for such misuse
1. From what I've seen, CoCs are used so silence or scare into silence
people with differing political opinions (so much for tolerance). The
language of this CoC, too, is too broad and allows for such misuse.
2. XEPs are not the place for such documents. If XSF wants to have a code
of conduct, it
This made me smile.
Thilo on August 27, after being told about issues in current XEPs:
> I'll show you how to make VoIP calls work on iOS with given XEPs and
without inventing new ones as soon as I come along implementing the new
WebRTC based VoIP XEPs.
Thilo on December 8:
> Rework whole
coming and stop ringing immediately after the
call is picked or reclined on one device, or when it is cancelled by the
caller.
(further complicated if caller sends something)
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tarting from,
say, 20th? Those are mightily rabid users, I must say!
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rchive again is fast enough anyway,
with any decent xmpp server.
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пт, 27 авг. 2021 г. в 14:52, Holger Weiß :
> * Andrew Nenakhov [2021-08-27 14:45]:
> >our quick sync protocol that loads every first message from all chats,
>
> This sounds like a non-standard replacement for XEP-0430: Inbox?
>
Not quite. XEP-0430 is a (rather weak) imitati
a similarly working demo of our group chat tech made out to
work as a support chat widget: http://connector.chat/
it reloads almost instantly after each page reload (and even remembers the
position if it was moved to another place), reloading everything from the
archive. You may try it now, if
sts to fetch at least 1 message for each contact in a roster. We had
this functionality, worked, as expected, far from ideal, so we eventually
scrapped it.
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age for as long as they
> continue to scroll up.
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
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What happens if a user has several connected clients that support this xep?
On the broader subject, I think that any xep that is oriented at doing
anything on clientside should have a mandatory section dealing with
multi-device use cases.
On Fri, 25 Jun 2021, 16:07 Jonas Schäfer, wrote:
> The
n other places, like a dedicated page on the
> XSF website.
>
> If you have suggestions on how to improve our processes, we welcome your
> constructive input. We then have clear ways to consider your
> suggestions, including proposals to include cookie recipes.
>
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t; time this email is sent. The XEP documents linked herein are up-to-
> date.
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вс, 7 февр. 2021 г. в 12:45, Daniel Pocock :
> Imagine a poster promoting this concept. A big headline, "SERVERLESS"
> and a picture of the former US president.
Former US president just needs his own server.
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>
> Regards,
>
> Daniel
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I mean, what 'remaining authentications' are you referring to?
Can you describe a scenario, like, Romeo with a smartphone and Juliet with
desktop computer want to initiate an encrypted chat, what do they do?
On Mon, Dec 7, 2020, 00:00 Melvin Keskin wrote:
> Hello Andrew,
>
> thanks for your
сб, 5 дек. 2020 г. в 05:12, Sam Whited :
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020, at 23:34, Andrew Nenakhov wrote:
> > 4. Start = first character (inclusive) and length = length of a
> >substring.
>
> This is the same as "1. Start = first character (inclusive)
s.
>
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ht
Upping a year-old email thread for Florian.
ср, 18 дек. 2019 г. в 20:41, Marvin W :
>
> [inline]
>
> On 12/18/19 3:22 PM, Andrew Nenakhov wrote:
> > In the end we have settled for counting characters of escaped string, so
>
> This sounds like a terri
Could you please share some of that feedback, Andrew?
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Seve
> https://delape.net
> https://github.com/SeveFP
>
>
> > On 04/12/2020 13:40 Andrew Nenakhov wrote:
> >
> >
> > We're currently use it in all our clients, extensively.
st
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re up-to-
> date.
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чт, 19 нояб. 2020 г. в 17:45, Florian Zeitz :
>
> Am 19.11.20 um 11:11 schrieb Andrew Nenakhov:
> > Because you are happily oblivious to problems of clients on some
> > platforms that have a very tiny window of operation before they have
> > to break connection.
> &
Because you are happily oblivious to problems of clients on some
platforms that have a very tiny window of operation before they have
to break connection.
ср, 18 нояб. 2020 г. в 23:10, Sam Whited :
>
> Why?
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020, at 12:56, Andrew Nenakhov wrote:
> > Using p
her to accept this
> proposal as an official XEP.
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gt; |
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Holger
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>
-
oard.
This, again, is a bureaucracy for the sake of bureaucracy. The process
can be precisely the same, you don't need to bloat the specs with
entries that will be obsoleted in a year just because you need an
archive or an orderly way to update information.
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because it is very consistent, works
great with group chats, makes it easy to process markup, mentions,
filter attached media, stickers, etc. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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чт, 21 мая 2020 г. в 22:06, Tedd Sterr :
>
> While scrolling could be taken as user interaction, I don't think that was
> the intention.
It is very clear that we should use 'displayed' for 'scrolling'.
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to implement.
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вт, 28 апр. 2020 г. в 13:04, Daniel Gultsch :
> Am Do., 29. Aug. 2019 um 11:26 Uhr schrieb Andrew Nenakhov
> :
>
> >> We have implemented this specification on iOS client, and discovered
> that it is unsuitable in real life scenarios. We have updated it with
> add
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XEPs to matrix documentation, which would you chose as a 20 years old
developers who wants to make a chat application?
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won't be based on messages received from an
entity.
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to implement this. At least, unless people
will start pointing fingers at Xabber saying, "ha-ha-ha, this obsolete
client doesn't support this very essential and universally supported Quick
Responces XEP, shame-shame-shame".
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ttons and options. It can be used for any kind of bots in a fairly
straightforward way.
I think that bloating a number of XEPs that are to be supported by various
application developers is wrong way to go.
In short, we are unlikely to support this.
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ng entity to send such
requests and review answers for them, so such feature will likely used only
by bots. And for bot it is eaiser to process a form than a text message.
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age, because without magic there is no "reference"
> from the response to the original message.
>
Can't we just use forms for this?
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ification will be dropped by APNS. Also,
OTR/OMEMO encrypted messages generally exceed the push notification
limit by APNS (especially when encoded in base64), which makes this
method even worse.
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s. It worked pretty well before
Apple changed policies with background notifications, but it still
works ok on Android.
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is this: if it can't be
fetched from an archive, it's a problem.
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a test, I suggest you contact over email or XMPP (jid is same
as email) and we'll provide you a window where everything will be in a
working state. However, it will not be XEP-357 as it is written now but our
necessary (even forced) improvements over it.
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tifications, they work mostly similar. Android can use this
technique too, but on this platform it is not as vital as on iOS
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6:09
> 16:10
> 16:11
> 16:12
> 16:13
> 16:14
> 16:15
> 16:16
> 16:19
>
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пт, 6 мар. 2020 г. в 15:51, Georg Lukas :
>
> * Andrew Nenakhov [2020-03-06 11:10]:
> > It is not possible to determine with Delivery Receipts either. If you
> > were offline when they were sent, you will not receive them.
> > If the recipient was offline when the mess
etween clients is just plain
wrong, because they are not designed to be constantly connected.
Servers, on the other hands, ARE designed to be constantly connected,
so it should be a server's job to keep track of such things (and we
actually do exactly this).
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t have an overlap in features and people stop claiming
> that XEP-0184 might be obsoleted by XEP-0333.
So you're ready to break a useful and working XEP just to stop me from
(rightfully) claiming that XEP-0184 is obsolete? No wonder XMPP is
such a mess. :-D
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ср, 4 мар. 2020 г. в 11:10, Philipp Hörist :
>
>
>
> Am Di., 3. März 2020 um 21:19 Uhr schrieb Andrew Nenakhov
> :
>>
>>
>> I think this XEP should be obsoleted in favour of XEP-0333 Chat
>> Markers, which does all that XEP-0184 does, plus something mor
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hom? For developers of 50+ XMPP clients, who would
have to consider support for yet another obscure XEP?
Speaking of bots, clients can interact with them in a very convenient
way using Data Forms (a long-neglected XEP-0004, which actually has a
lot of potential for lots of various things, we defin
gt; referenced message), but in the end I rather preferred to keep it simple.
Just build a bot that would send you reminders. No need to bloat the
already huge number of extensions,
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on reconnection, in best
cases they result in smaller amounts of traffic.
Mind you, I'm not advocating to drop SM, it's just our position that
it is redundant for us.
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b clients.
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ing shold be done by servers.
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, I am not ready to give up on green light bulbs on contacts just
yet.
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were sent to you during the
> short period that you were disconnected?
Through the message archive and with our device sync protocol.
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without XEP-0198. Android version will have it removed, too. Restoring
a state > resumption of a stream.
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ort,
understand user's intent, etc.
Google, Yandex, Bing, DDG, etc do not have separate input searchboxes
for searchers with special terms and without them.
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settle for mediocrity. I'd rather attempt to do the former.
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sped up, so we don't deploy more instances of servers and
clients that use search in 'ejabberd' way.
Modifying ejabberd and our server and clients to this type of search
looks rather trivial and can be done really fast.
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ср, 22 янв. 2020 г. в 16:44, Florian Schmaus :
>
> On 21.01.20 17:28, Andrew Nenakhov wrote:
> > Notice: this is a rather early sketch of a copy of a technology that we
> > already use to great results and have implemented in a open-source and
> > available XMPP server
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Carbons instead of trying to refine its rules again and
> again (and not being able to make it Draft).
>
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t this
> proposal as an official XEP.
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*counting symbols differently.
сб, 21 дек. 2019 г. в 17:22, Andrew Nenakhov <
andrew.nenak...@redsolution.com>:
> сб, 21 дек. 2019 г. в 17:12, Ralph Meijer :
>
>> So, having unescaped > is valid for case 2, and serializers may choose to
>> do so.
>>
>
>
thing we do differently. We'll probably change namespace for our
references to not interfere with whatever you guys come up with.
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, can you provide examples of XML processing libraries
that work the way you describe and do not escape > all the time? We know
none such, and we've tested dozens of them over the many years. Every
single one always did the escaping. As I think it should, because
consistency.
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tion>.
>
>
I have a different reading of this.
MUST be escaped using
EITHER
OR character reference (WHEN it appears in the string ... ...)
so OR branch is clearly used only for case listed in WHEN
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tion of content.
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сб, 21 дек. 2019 г. в 14:53, Florian Schmaus :
> On 21.12.19 10:50, Andrew Nenakhov wrote:
> >
> >
> > пт, 20 дек. 2019 г. в 19:25, Marvin W > <mailto:x...@larma.de>>:
> >
> > On 12/20/19 1:15 PM, Andrew Nenakhov wrote:
> >
пт, 20 дек. 2019 г. в 19:25, Marvin W :
> On 12/20/19 1:15 PM, Andrew Nenakhov wrote:
> > You have sent a string '>>>>>', which was escaped to
> > '' before sending to the server.
>
> I have sent ">>>>>" verbatim (exactly the stan
пт, 20 дек. 2019 г. в 17:53, Dave Cridland :
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 12:15, Andrew Nenakhov <
> andrew.nenak...@redsolution.com> wrote:
>
>> You have sent a string '>>>>>', which was escaped to
>> '' before sending to the server.
>&
call
them related.
Sure, we could deprecate XEP-394, but I don't see a proper replacement
> for it yet.
I've sent our rather complete proposal (sans formal text, just stanzas) to
this list somewhere around summer.
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sers require
their own escaping.
ср, 18 дек. 2019 г. в 20:41, Marvin W :
> [inline]
>
> On 12/18/19 3:22 PM, Andrew Nenakhov wrote:
> > In the end we have settled for counting characters of escaped string, so
>
> This sounds like a terrible idea. In encoded XML, ">&qu
lman/listinfo/standards
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with maybe in march, unless someone comes up with a
better working solution.
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> can't be used on iOS.
>
> MAM catchup means fetching the messages you missed while you were offline.
And if there were 1 messages? Quite plausible for a busy group chat.
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nyone's really interested I can muster myself up and speed up
> > translation to English.
> I asked Google to translate it, but only half of the document got translated.
We'll do our best to speed up the translation of our XEP and their submissi
tokens?
We do not intend to support legacy clients without token support, it
kinda kills the idea. However, we do plan to do PRs to select
open-source clients to add this feature.
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e private of
> course.
You see, many things in messaging are 'trivial' and can be done rather
easily. But for some reason no one bothered to do them in XMPP for
decades.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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ss personal data', etc). Issuing new
tokens may be one of such scopes.
Bottom end: if people here feel that we should explicitly specify that
a tokenized session should be restricted from changing password - we
can easily add it to protocol requirements.
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you look at '399 and '397, as well as CLIENT-KEY and HT-*
> over at the IETF, and if you'd like to take over '399 I'd appreciate it.
We did look at these. 397 has a very different intent, and 399 suffers
from key issues described above. Fixing these will result in a XEP
identical to the curren
пт, 6 сент. 2019 г. в 12:59, Georg Lukas :
>
> * Andrew Nenakhov [2019-09-05 09:45]:
> > [..] So we have to
> > operate fully without presence, thus, if a caller rejects a message at
> > the exact moment we fetch an archive, we won't receive
> > message in nor
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Andrew Nenakhov
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ator) messages. Instead, the will be carbon-copied to all
> other resources, letting them know that one client accepted the call.
Why is 353 not designed for carbons? is a and
should be sent to other connected resources once the call is accepted.
I'd say that current XEP-0353 speci
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way! But at what
cost? Agan, If we start developing the fastest solution, we'll
eventually come up with some CA service that manages calls directly,
fully bypassing XMPP. Is that what we want?
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Andrew Nenakhov
CEO, redsolution, OÜ
https://redsolution.com
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And at that point, why messing with XMPP at all? An FCM-only
messenger can be coded in a week, it'll send and receive full message text
via FCM, store messages on FCM cloud database and all will work admirably
well.
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Andrew Nenakhov
CEO, redsolution, OÜ
https://redsolution.com <http://www.redsolution
to catch up on this though.
сб, 3 авг. 2019 г. в 21:04, Andrew Nenakhov :
> вт, 30 июл. 2019 г. в 23:42, Jonas Schäfer :
>
>> 1. Is this specification needed to fill gaps in the XMPP protocol
>> stack or to clarify an existing protocol?
>>
>
> Yes.
>
>
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