Re: [Standards] XEP-0163: Notify after directed presence
On 28.08.19 10:23, Daniel Gultsch wrote: > Am Mo., 26. Aug. 2019 um 15:30 Uhr schrieb Maxime Buquet : >> >> On 2019/08/26, Holger Weiß wrote: >>> * Maxime Buquet [2019-08-24 20:26]: I found about this issue while working on the OMEMO implementation in poezio (that should be available soon(tm)), but I guess this can be applied to other things. The issue goes as follows: - Start encrypted chat with non-contact recipient. At this point, my OMEMO code will fetch devicelist and bundles via PEP. - Recipient then updates his OMEMO status (adds a device, removes a devices from the devicelist) - ??? I am not aware of changes as I am not being notified through PEP because of not being a contact. I continue encrypting same as I was before the changes. >>> >>> What about explicitly subscribing to the devicelist node (assuming the >>> node's access_model allows you to)? >> >> That should be doable indeed, but then I'm not sure when to unsuscribe, >> (which I would very much like to do at some point I think.) >> >> Unless I still get directed presences, then it would probably be ok? > > Yes when to unsubscribe is the big question here. Furthermore without > something like PAM I might even forget that I'm subscribed. Assuming that there is an answer to the big question when to unsubscribe: Forgetting about being subscribed does not appear to be an big issue. You could either check if you need to unsubscribe when once decided to unsubscribe. Or unsubscribe once you receive a notify from a node you do not want to be subscribed to. I don't think that PAM buys us much in this situation. - Florian signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] XEP-0163: Notify after directed presence
Hi, I can't remember who, but someone kept on pointing out this issue with PEP for various cases. Loosely, PEP only really works in the case where we have a mutual subscription - so much so that some clients go out of their way to try an enforce mutual subscriptions. It would be nice to fix PEP so it works for one-way subscriptions and ad-hoc contacts. I don't think key distribution should operate over PEP, but that's somewhat irrelevant to this discussion. Dave. On Sat, 24 Aug 2019 at 19:26, Maxime Buquet wrote: > Hi standards, > > > I found about this issue while working on the OMEMO implementation in > poezio (that should be available soon(tm)), but I guess this can be > applied to other things. The issue goes as follows: > > - Start encrypted chat with non-contact recipient. > At this point, my OMEMO code will fetch devicelist and bundles via > PEP. > - Recipient then updates his OMEMO status (adds a device, removes a > devices from the devicelist) > - ??? > I am not aware of changes as I am not being notified through PEP > because of not being a contact. I continue encrypting same as I was > before the changes. > > > One obvious answer is to add the recipient as contact, but this might > not always fly. > > Asking quickly in jdev@ [0], I was suggested to use directed presences, > and [even if it might not be specified yet?] it would make sense if I > now received PEP notifications for items with an access_model of "open". > > Thoughts? > > > Happy Hacking! > > > [0]: https://logs.xmpp.org/jdev/2019-08-24#2019-08-24-bf845f259b5e8576 > > -- > Maxime “pep” Buquet > ___ > Standards mailing list > Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards > Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org > ___ > ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] XEP-0163: Notify after directed presence
Am Mo., 26. Aug. 2019 um 15:30 Uhr schrieb Maxime Buquet : > > On 2019/08/26, Holger Weiß wrote: > > * Maxime Buquet [2019-08-24 20:26]: > > > I found about this issue while working on the OMEMO implementation in > > > poezio (that should be available soon(tm)), but I guess this can be > > > applied to other things. The issue goes as follows: > > > > > > - Start encrypted chat with non-contact recipient. > > > At this point, my OMEMO code will fetch devicelist and bundles via > > > PEP. > > > - Recipient then updates his OMEMO status (adds a device, removes a > > > devices from the devicelist) > > > - ??? > > > I am not aware of changes as I am not being notified through PEP > > > because of not being a contact. I continue encrypting same as I was > > > before the changes. > > > > What about explicitly subscribing to the devicelist node (assuming the > > node's access_model allows you to)? > > That should be doable indeed, but then I'm not sure when to unsuscribe, > (which I would very much like to do at some point I think.) > > Unless I still get directed presences, then it would probably be ok? Yes when to unsubscribe is the big question here. Furthermore without something like PAM I might even forget that I'm subscribed. This makes the directed presence idea kinda appealing to me. If we ever get something like PAM and it turns out to be better for this one could just stop doing the directed presence thing again so there is no harm in allowing it I guess… cheers Daniel ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] XEP-0163: Notify after directed presence
On 2019/08/26, Holger Weiß wrote: > * Maxime Buquet [2019-08-24 20:26]: > > I found about this issue while working on the OMEMO implementation in > > poezio (that should be available soon(tm)), but I guess this can be > > applied to other things. The issue goes as follows: > > > > - Start encrypted chat with non-contact recipient. > > At this point, my OMEMO code will fetch devicelist and bundles via > > PEP. > > - Recipient then updates his OMEMO status (adds a device, removes a > > devices from the devicelist) > > - ??? > > I am not aware of changes as I am not being notified through PEP > > because of not being a contact. I continue encrypting same as I was > > before the changes. > > What about explicitly subscribing to the devicelist node (assuming the > node's access_model allows you to)? That should be doable indeed, but then I'm not sure when to unsuscribe, (which I would very much like to do at some point I think.) Unless I still get directed presences, then it would probably be ok? -- Maxime “pep” Buquet signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] XEP-0163: Notify after directed presence
* Maxime Buquet [2019-08-24 20:26]: > I found about this issue while working on the OMEMO implementation in > poezio (that should be available soon(tm)), but I guess this can be > applied to other things. The issue goes as follows: > > - Start encrypted chat with non-contact recipient. > At this point, my OMEMO code will fetch devicelist and bundles via > PEP. > - Recipient then updates his OMEMO status (adds a device, removes a > devices from the devicelist) > - ??? > I am not aware of changes as I am not being notified through PEP > because of not being a contact. I continue encrypting same as I was > before the changes. What about explicitly subscribing to the devicelist node (assuming the node's access_model allows you to)? Holger ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
