Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Developer MINUTES

[Aleksey Lim]

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 08:51:22PM +0200, Simon Schampijer wrote:
> On 05/22/2009 05:31 PM, James Simmons wrote:
> > I didn't see Aleksey's espeak gstreamer plugin included in the roadmap.  
> > This is needed for text to speech with highlighting support for Read 
> > Etexts, and is being included in SoaS now.  I'm looking forward to having a 
> > version of Sugar I can install on my XO where this is included.
> >
> > James Simmons
> 
> This might be upstream work - non Sugar platforms can profit from that 
> work as well I guess. Aleksey can you comment - what the plan is here?

Well, gst-espeak is now in SP-0.84 list[1](and will migrate to SP-0.86)
it should mean that if maintainers of any GNU/Linux distribution want
sugar(in wide sense i.e. core+honey) to be runnable they should provide
SP meta package(or so).

At present there are several distributions that satisfy SP:
* Mandriva2009.1
* Caixa Magica 12 Magelan
* ALTLinux Sisyphus
* OpenSUSE X11::Sugar
* Gentoo sugar overlay
* SoaS

Unfortunately I don't know who builds XO distribution
and does it satisfy SP or not.

[1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Sugar_Platform/0.84

-- 
Aleksey
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Re: [Sugar-devel] wrong Activity versions for 8.2(.1) -- Etoys, Memorize, Terminal, Read, others

[Aleksey Lim]

I guess, its more complex issue then just updating wiki
(btw updating several wikis after bumping new version could be a pain
for activity author).

I think having one method for all distributions to get updates
is much attractive way, so I've proposed it for 0.86 roadmap[1].

[1] 
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Release/Roadmap/0.86#Activities_updates

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 03:56:32AM -0700, S Page wrote:
> XO's running 8.2.0 and 8.2.1 (thus Sugar 0.82.1) can use the Software
> update control panel to update an "activity group" of activities and
> collections.  I believe Software update on 8.2.x determines the latest
> versions from http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/G1G1/8.2
> 
> Unfortunately these version numbers are independent of the bundles
> pointed to by activity pages and their semantic info, let alone newer
> versions on http://activity.sugarlabs.org.  People recently fixed
> Browse, but after running Software update to upgrade my 8.2.1
> activities to latest version, I noticed several other discrepancies:
> 
> 1. Software update doesn't update to latest version for 8.2.
> 
> Etoys at 94, but its web page's Activity_version says 98
>==> Someone should update http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/Etoys_(8.2) 
> !?
>==> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addons/versions/4030
> is up to 100, but doesn't list a version for Sugar 0.82
> 
> Memorize at 28 and its web page's Activity_version says 28, but
> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4063 says v.30 works
> for Sugar 0.82
>==> Someone should update
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/Memorize_(8.2) and
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/Memorize_(latest)
> 
> Read at 56, web page Activity_version says 52 and 61, and
> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addons/versions/4028
> doesn't list a version for Sugar 0.82.
>==> What is the latest Read version that works for 8.2.0?
> 
> Terminal at 18, but the web page's Activity_version says 19
>==> Someone should update
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/Terminal_(8.2) !?
>==> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addons/versions/4043
> doesn't list a version for Sugar 0.82
> 
> Turtle Art is at 10, web page doesn't identify a tested release.
> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addons/versions/4027 is
> all the way to version 51 but doesn't list a version for Sugar 0.82
> 
> 
> 2. Activity updates to a later version than its wiki.laptop.org web page
> 
> IMO just delete redundant and out-of-date info on wiki.laptop.org.
> Blank out the activity_version and OBX xobundle info for the activity,
> and use
> the {{activity migrated to sl.o}} template as Aleksey has been doing.
> See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Maintaining_activity_web_information
> 
> Browse at 102, web page Activity_version says its 98
> also the web page's lang pootle links redirect to sugarlabs w/ bad
> https and broken rewrite
> 
> TamTamEdit at 50, Mini at 49, SynthLab at 51; web page
> Activity_version versions are 1 less than those.
> 
> 
> 3.  Activities/G1G1/8.2 mis-identifies the version for 8.2 as "(latest)".
> 
> Sometimes  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/G1G1/8.2 has the right
> version for 8.2, but misidentifies it as the "latest" version when
> activities.sugarlabs.org has something much more recent.  The fix is
> to change this page to pull in the (8.2) fragment.
> 
> 4.  I didn't grind through every versions page on
> activities.sugarlabs.org.  If your activity has a more recent version
> than what's listed here that works on 8.2.1/Sugar 0.82, please update
> its fragment.
> 
> Here's the set of versions on my XO-1 running 8.2.1 after Software update:
> 
> Analyze.activity  8
> Browse.activity 102
> Calculate.activity   25
> Chat.activity48
> Distance.activity14
> Etoys.activity   94
> Firefox-6.activity6 (not in Activities/G1G1)
> Help.activity10
> Implode.activity  5
> Log.activity 16
> Maze.activity 6
> Measure.activity 21
> Memorize.activity28
> Moon.activity10
> Paint.activity   23
> Pippy.activity   30
> Read.activity56
> Record.activity  59
> Ruler.activity3
> Scratch.activity 12
> Speak.activity9
> TamTamEdit.activity  50
> TamTamJam.activity   51
> TamTamMini.activity  49
> TamTamSynthLab.activity  51
> Terminal.activity18
> TurtleArt.activity   10
> WikipediaEN.activity  4
> Write.activity   60
> 
> 5. There are many other activities not part of the G1G1 activities
> group that are out-of-date on wiki.laptop.org.  For example,
> Colors! web page Activity_version says its 13, but
> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addons/versions/4050 says
> version 15 is latest.  Again, I think blanking it out and indicated
> the version for Sugar 0.82 on Activities.sugarlabs.org's "See Al

Re: [Sugar-devel] possible foundation for an email activity

[Albert Cahalan]

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Carol Farlow Lerche  wrote:

> Albert -- The page you mention (http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html) says
> "I'm told this algorithm is also used in the Evolution and Balsa mail
> readers. "

Right. That's why I used to use Evolution. The threading
was wonderful. In many ways, I miss Evolution.

After years of watching bug duplicates pile up for the
mailbox corruption, I had to face the fact that Evolution
just wasn't something I could trust with my email.

Go ahead and clone the UI, mostly. Run from the code.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] soas live cd on MacBook? How?

[Sean DALY]

OK, I created a new stick with Fedora LiveUSB Creator v.3.6.5 on a
Windows machine (an EeePC which I usually boot into Sugar with that
snapshot on an SD Card) using Soas-200903051021.iso.

Then, I inserted the stick into my Mac Mini, opened the Terminal
application, and executed the following using the "bless" command
(http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/Manpages/man8/bless.8.html),
this sets the Mac to boot from the stick for the next boot only and
specifies the mountpoint and efi file. (Note: it is possible to make a
script executable from a user-friendly icon on OSX, by appending
".command" to the filename)

The following links were helpful while researching this:
http://refit.sourceforge.net/info/boot_process.html was
http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/EFI#EFI_in_the_Intel_Macs


$ sudo bless --setBoot --nextonly --verbose --mount
/Volumes/FEDORA/EFI/boot  --file /Volumes/FEDORA/EFI/boot/bootx64.efi

Password:
EFI found at IODeviceTree:/efi
Mount point for /Volumes/FEDORA is /Volumes/FEDORA
Mount point is '/Volumes/FEDORA'
No BootX creation requested
No boot.efi creation requested
Other partition scheme detected
No auxiliary booter partition required
Preferred system partition found: disk0s1
Returning booter information dictionary:
{type = mutable, count = 3,
capacity = 3, pairs = (
0 : {contents = "Auxiliary
Partitions"} = {type = immutable, count
= 0, values = (
)}
2 : {contents = "Data Partitions"} =
{type = immutable, count = 1, values =
(
0 : {contents = "disk1s1"}
)}
3 : {contents = "System Partitions"} =
{type = immutable, count = 1, values =
(
0 : {contents = "disk0s1"}
)}
)}
Relative path of /Volumes/FEDORA/EFI/boot/bootx64.efi is \EFI\boot\bootx64.efi
IOMedia disk1s1 does not have a partition UUID
IOMedia disk1s1 does not have a Volume UUID
IOMedia disk1s1 has path IODeviceTree:/p...@0/u...@1d,7/@2:1
Setting EFI NVRAM:

efi-boot-next='IOMatchIOProviderClassIOMediaIOPathMatchIODeviceTree:/p...@0/u...@1d,7/@2:1BLLastBSDNamedisk1s1IOEFIDevicePathTypeMediaFilePathPath\EFI\boot\bootx64.efi'
Setting EFI NVRAM:
IONVRAM-DELETE-PROPERTY='efi-boot-file'
Setting EFI NVRAM:
IONVRAM-DELETE-PROPERTY='efi-boot-mkext'
NVRAM variable "boot-args" not set.

$ sudo reboot


The Mac rebooted from the stick, went through the Fedora startup but
then arrived at this which I've seen before (on netbooks) but have no
idea how to avoid:


--
WARNING: Cannot find root file system!
--
Create symlink /dev/root and then exit this shell to continue the boot sequence

bash: no job control in this shell

bash-4.0#


I then attempted:


bash-4.0# ln -s /dev/disk1s1 /dev/root


Note: the machine-specific device name disk1s1 was revealed above, but
a shortcut to get it at the OSX command line is "$ diskutil list" or
even "$ system_profiler SPUSBDataType | grep 'BSD Name:'"

However, perhaps the BSD names don't apply since Fedora and not BSD booted?

I exited the shell and obtained:


mount: you must specify the filesystem type
Bug in initramfs /init detected. Dropping to a shell. Good luck!

bash: no job control in this shell

bash-4.0#



The stick booted an Acer Aspire One into Sugar no problem right after.

I think this Fedora bug tracker references this problem:
https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/ticket/53

Sean.


On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 7:39 PM, Sean DALY  wrote:
> OSX has a CLI "bless" command which may do what is necessary.
>
> I'll try to look into this, I have a recent Mac Mini
>
> Sean
>
>
> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: RIPEMD160
>>
>> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 08:19:53AM -0700, Caryl Bigenho wrote:
>>>I had an idea in the shower this am (some of my best ideas come while I
>>>am in the shower).  I think I may know what is going on with the Macs
>>>and live Sugar CDs and how it might be fixed.
>>>
>>>
>>>According to Apple, when you boot with the option key down, the
>>>computer looks for all bootable items, eg the Mac HD, a Windows section
>>>(via Boot Camp), an external drive, a USB stick, or a CD in the Macs
>>>optical drive.  The item must contain all elements needed to be
>>>bootable.  Sooo
>>
>> Please beware that Apple might have a different interpretation for the
>> term "bootable".
>>
>> It might very well be (as was for sure with pre-Intel Macs!) that the
>> nice Apple boot selector only lists things looking Mac-like (i.e. looks
>> like a Darwin kernel).
>>
>> [...some google searching...]
>>
>> Indeed, that seems to be the case: You need to boot from a HFS+
>> partition that is "blessed".  A solution seems to be here:
>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=869324
>>
>>
>> Beware that if "blessing" is similar to that of classic MacOS, then it
>> includes adding a small binary piece that is *not* free software.  In
>> other word

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] soas live cd on MacBook? How?

[Caryl Bigenho]

Hi Caroline,


I had an idea in the shower this am (some of my best ideas come while I am in 
the shower).  I think I may know what is going on with the Macs and live Sugar 
CDs and how it might be fixed.


According to Apple, when you boot with the option key down, the computer looks 
for all bootable items, eg the Mac HD, a Windows section (via Boot Camp), an 
external drive, a USB stick, or a CD in the Macs optical drive.  The item must 
contain all elements needed to be bootable.  Sooo


The live CD as downloaded is missing something!  The question is, "What?" It 
may be the things that are on the boot-helper that is supposed to work with 
SoaS (and which didn't work for me...only the Virtual Box thing has worked so 
far).


SoMaybe someone can figure out what the missing elements are and add them 
to create a Mac version of the live CD.  Better still...maybe they can also 
figure out how to get it to work on the older non-intel Powerbooks running on 
the same OSX that the MacBooks use.  Make it OS dependent rather than hardware 
dependent.


Know any programming wizards who could take this on?


Caryl
From: cbige...@hotmail.com
To: carol...@solutiongrove.com
CC: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org; i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: RE: [IAEP] soas live cd on MacBook? How?
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 08:27:00 -0700








Hi Caroline,

I haven't gotten the cd to work yet.  Created 2 on the Mac. Neither works.  
Wonder if making it on the Windows side would do it...will try to find out how 
to do that.  USB didn't work, even with the boot-helper.  I can, and have, run 
Sugar with the Virtual Box.  In fact, I keep it in my toolbar.

I have been busy with our family business the past few days.  I might have a 
little time tonight to try some other things. But houseguests come tomorrow 
afternoon and we leave for MT soon after they leave.  Won't have much time to 
play with this until I get back to MT.

Caryl

Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 10:22:55 +0200
Subject: Re: [IAEP] soas live cd on MacBook? How?
From: carol...@solutiongrove.com
To: cbige...@hotmail.com
CC: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org; i...@lists.sugarlabs.org

Hi Caryl,

How is it going?

I know of two potentail issues.

1. Getting the right materials. At sugar camp we found that the USB created on 
the macbook was not working, only a PC created USB seemed to work. Plus you 
need both the USB and the boot helper.


2. some macbooks have a bug, when you boot everything goes fine through most of 
the boot and just when you are about to get to Sugar you get a mostly black 
screen with a sqiggle in the middle.

Where are you at? I especially need people with problem #2 because I don't have 
a test machine that shows it and its a show stopper for me for all work in 
Boston Public Schools because their macbooks have this issue.


Thanks,
Caroline

2009/5/20 Caryl Bigenho 






Hi,



I downloaded soas-beta.iso to my MacBook and burned it to a disk.  I would like 
to get it to boot and be usable on the MacBook.  Does anyone know how to do 
this?




Thanks,
Caryl

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i...@lists.sugarlabs.org

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-- 
Caroline Meeks
Solution Grove
carol...@solutiongrove.com


617-500-3488 - Office
505-213-3268 - Fax
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] soas live cd on MacBook? How?

[Caryl Bigenho]

Hi Caroline,

I haven't gotten the cd to work yet.  Created 2 on the Mac. Neither works.  
Wonder if making it on the Windows side would do it...will try to find out how 
to do that.  USB didn't work, even with the boot-helper.  I can, and have, run 
Sugar with the Virtual Box.  In fact, I keep it in my toolbar.

I have been busy with our family business the past few days.  I might have a 
little time tonight to try some other things. But houseguests come tomorrow 
afternoon and we leave for MT soon after they leave.  Won't have much time to 
play with this until I get back to MT.

Caryl

Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 10:22:55 +0200
Subject: Re: [IAEP] soas live cd on MacBook? How?
From: carol...@solutiongrove.com
To: cbige...@hotmail.com
CC: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org; i...@lists.sugarlabs.org

Hi Caryl,

How is it going?

I know of two potentail issues.

1. Getting the right materials. At sugar camp we found that the USB created on 
the macbook was not working, only a PC created USB seemed to work. Plus you 
need both the USB and the boot helper.


2. some macbooks have a bug, when you boot everything goes fine through most of 
the boot and just when you are about to get to Sugar you get a mostly black 
screen with a sqiggle in the middle.

Where are you at? I especially need people with problem #2 because I don't have 
a test machine that shows it and its a show stopper for me for all work in 
Boston Public Schools because their macbooks have this issue.


Thanks,
Caroline

2009/5/20 Caryl Bigenho 






Hi,



I downloaded soas-beta.iso to my MacBook and burned it to a disk.  I would like 
to get it to boot and be usable on the MacBook.  Does anyone know how to do 
this?




Thanks,
Caryl

___

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i...@lists.sugarlabs.org

http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep


-- 
Caroline Meeks
Solution Grove
carol...@solutiongrove.com


617-500-3488 - Office
505-213-3268 - Fax
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] soas live cd on MacBook? How?

[Jonas Smedegaard]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 06:55:12PM -0300, Andrea Mangiatordi wrote:
>Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>> You cannot run the currently released SoaS on a PowerPC Macintosh.
>
>That's why I wrote "so I can't test it directly" ;)

Ah, ok :-)


>> SoaS is only currently compiled for 32bit x86, which works on amd64 
>> but not on PowerPC.
>
>Yeah, I had to use jhbuild and precompiled ubuntu packages in order to 
>try and use Sugar.
>
>I don't really know if the boot management system is the same on all 
>Macs, what I wanted to say is that there are live Linux distributions 
>for both series and those distros only include free software, so there 
>won't be any need for the developers to use proprietary blessings.

Intel Macs use EFI.  Newer PowerPC Macs used OpenFirmware (yes, same 
interface as used on XOs).

Yes, it is possible to boot, also without "blessed" boot environment.

What a "blessed" environment provides is improved recognition by the 
user-friendly builtin Apple boot selector.

(the free "rEFIt" boot selector is user-friendly too, but not builtin, 
so less ideal for SoaS).


  - Jonas

- -- 
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
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hYQAn2Ooa0KZhpIUvh69+3p7qb2Gl4fY
=EcLG
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] soas live cd on MacBook? How?

[Lucian Branescu]

blessing would be useful for enabling 'boot from USB'. 'boot from CD'
or 'boot from USB with helper CD' don't need it.

2009/5/24 Andrea Mangiatordi :
> Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>> You cannot run the currently released SoaS on a PowerPC Macintosh.
>
> That's why I wrote "so I can't test it directly" ;)
>
>> SoaS is only currently compiled for 32bit x86, which works on amd64 but
>> not on PowerPC.
>
> Yeah, I had to use jhbuild and precompiled ubuntu packages in order to
> try and use Sugar.
>
> I don't really know if the boot management system is the same on all
> Macs, what I wanted to say is that there are live Linux distributions
> for both series and those distros only include free software, so there
> won't be any need for the developers to use proprietary blessings.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Andrea
>
> --
> Andrea Mangiatordi
>
> www.farfalla-project.org
> www.bglug.it
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] soas live cd on MacBook? How?

[Andrea Mangiatordi]

Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> You cannot run the currently released SoaS on a PowerPC Macintosh.

That's why I wrote "so I can't test it directly" ;)

> SoaS is only currently compiled for 32bit x86, which works on amd64 but
> not on PowerPC.

Yeah, I had to use jhbuild and precompiled ubuntu packages in order to 
try and use Sugar.

I don't really know if the boot management system is the same on all 
Macs, what I wanted to say is that there are live Linux distributions 
for both series and those distros only include free software, so there 
won't be any need for the developers to use proprietary blessings.

Kind regards

Andrea

-- 
Andrea Mangiatordi

www.farfalla-project.org
www.bglug.it
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Physics activity development

[Gary C Martin]

On 24 May 2009, at 21:27, Alex Levenson wrote:

> I believe play/pause is implemented there.

Fab thanks, yes the spacebar is wired for play pause, so just a  
toolbar button needed for visual discoverability/shortcut hint.

> Also note that changing the menubar should be easy - I automated it  
> using class introspection so you should only have to make a few  
> changes and then all toolbar items will propagate nicely.

OK, your too clever for me, will need to get my head around this, I'm  
a little of an old school proceduralist ;-)

> We never got around to saving in Physics!, that's going to be a  
> significant bit of work (also considered a language independent  
> standard for saving box2d scenes) but I certainly did in x2o - it  
> plays nicely with the journal completely (at least when I left it  
> did).

Would you suggest we take a look at what you did for X2o and trying to  
duplicate your approach for Physics (I've not looked at X2o code yet  
so I'm likely off mark)?

Regards,
--Gary

> Alex
>
> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Gary C Martin  
>  wrote:
> Hi Brian,
>
>
> On 24 May 2009, at 18:36, Brian Jordan wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> Gary -- when you get a chance, can you add me as a committer on
> git.sl.o?  I'd like to help clean things up!
>
> You're added! :-)
>
> Can I request we try and make small clean commits and try to let  
> others know what we are doing. If you want to hack, Gitorious  
> supports quite a nice 'Clone repository' and then 'Request merge'  
> process (no commit rights needed for the main project). The  
> alternative, if you know what you are doing, is just make your own  
> local git branch to hack on, so you can take care of any merge/ 
> conflict issues yourself when you fold it back into the current  
> master.
>
> I'm far from a git expert, but I can recommend some bed time reading  
> at:
>
>http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~cduan/technical/git/
>
> and/or
>
>http://gitready.com/
>
> I'd like to get on with Labyrinth work, if you're willing to have an  
> initial clean up of the Physics source in the next few days... so  
> what was 'joysitck' feature all about? ;-)
>
> Once the dev.sugarlabs.org component is added we should add the  
> features/bugs in there to keep them all together. FWIW, from a UI  
> point of view I had in mind:
>
> 1) remove/disable 'joysitick' feature as I have no idea what it was  
> meant to be ;-)
> 2) build tool buttons correctly using RadioToolButton so they  
> display state correctly
> 3) use set_accelerator to define visible keyboard shortcuts for the  
> tools
>
>
> Asaf -- do you have a http://git.sugarlabs.org account yet?
>
> This is some feedback from Asaf (these could fit as enhancements in
> http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ ):
>
> While playing with the activity I found a "pause" button to stop time
> could be very useful. It's complicated to build elaborate contraptions
> if everything keeps falling. Maybe while everything is paused,
> positions an velocities of objects could be modified.
>
> A minor modification I suggest is to create a separate button for
> adding push pins. It is not intuitive to add them using the link tool.
> If there are plans about creating tutorial levels this isn't that
> necessary although I don't see any harm on adding it.
>
> An other thing I think could be grate is to be able to create
> attractors an repulsors. With stuff like this it gets pretty
> interesting, we could have objects orbiting around the attractors.
>
> Yes, all good stuff, there's also a list on 
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Physics_%28activity%29 
>  as well, but I'd vote for cleaning up what we have first, perhaps  
> adding a play/pause, and keeping Journal state so kids can actually  
> keep their Physics creations (and send them to friends when using  
> sugar 0.84).
>
> Regards,
> --Gary
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Brian
>
> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Gary C Martin  
>  wrote:
> Hey Brian,
>
> On 24 May 2009, at 13:57, Brian Jordan wrote:
>
> Hey Gary,
>
> First, I'm attaching Asaf Paris Mandoki, who contacted me last week
> with an interest in developing on the Physics activity, and has great
> ideas of things to add.  This is a great opportunity!  :)
>
> I can handle getting Physics on gitorious, the bug tracker and a.sl.o.
> I will try to complete this by the end of today.
>
> Having chatted with Alex Levenson, I've already kicked off the  
> migration for
> Physics (rep is now in Gitorious, trac request is in, and I've  
> started to
> poke at the code, running well at least in sugar-jhbuild and sugar  
> 0.84).
> X2o is next on my hit list once Physics is in a reasonable state.
>
> The things I can use some help with are (1) integrating proper
> localization to the activity and
>
> Yep, I'm going to do a pass at the code and tidy up some partially
> implemented / broken UI stuff, before requesting it's addition to  
> pootle
> (best to start with a reasonably stable set of strings). Would also  
> like to
> get/tex

[Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Announcing Snapshot 2009/05/24

[Sebastian Dziallas]

Hi folks,

after a short break, there's a new snapshot ready for you. It 
incorporates the latest packages from the upcoming F11 release, as well 
the Colors activity. Please report any bugs or issues you encounter and 
list them appropriately for the soas_linuxtag milestone in trac, if needed.

Our roadmap is located here: 
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Roadmap

The current list of bugs for the RC can be found here: 
http://www.tinyurl.com/soas-rc-tickets

The image can be downloaded from here: 
http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/2/Soas2-200905241902.iso

The appliance image has been made available here: 
http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/appliances/soas2-20090524.zip

Thanks and happy testing! :)
--Sebastian
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Re: [Sugar-devel] possible foundation for an email activity

[Jonas Smedegaard]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 12:14:25PM -0700, Carol Farlow Lerche wrote:
>Albert -- The page you mention (http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html) 
>says "I'm told this algorithm is also used in the 
>Evolutionand Balsa 
> mail readers. "

The use of the proper sorting algorithm does not change the lousy track 
record of Evolution due to other parts of that monstruous application 
:-(


Kind regards,

  - Jonas

- -- 
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] soas live cd on MacBook? How?

[Jonas Smedegaard]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 03:45:21PM -0300, Andrea Mangiatordi wrote:
>Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>> Beware that if "blessing" is similar to that of classic MacOS, then 
>> it includes adding a small binary piece that is *not* free software.  
>> In other words, it may be illegal to publish SoaS as pre-blessed 
>> images.
>
>Hi everybody,
>I have a pre-Intel mac, so I can't test it directly, but AFAIK there 
>are many linux distributions which run flawlessly on a Mac (both 
>powerpc and intel) and they even have a livecd option (I can think of 
>Ubuntu, but there can be others). So, if Ubuntu can boot, there should 
>be a free software way to do it..

You cannot run the currently released SoaS on a PowerPC Macintosh.

The reason MacOS X seemingly runs across platforms is that all its 
components are compiled for both platforms.

SoaS is only currently compiled for 32bit x86, which works on amd64 but 
not on PowerPC.

Yes, it is certainly possible to run Linux on PowerPC (and ARM, and 
Motorola 68k and a lot of other platforms), SoaS is just not prepared 
for that yet, and most probably if/when it happens, it will be provided 
as a separate image, not a combined one for multiple platforms as with 
some Apple software.


(...as far as I am aware - I am not directly involved in the SoaS work)


Kind regards,

   - Jonas

- -- 
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* Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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=jVj1
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Re: [Sugar-devel] possible foundation for an email activity

[Carol Farlow Lerche]

Albert -- The page you mention (http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html) says
"I'm told this algorithm is also used in the
Evolutionand
Balsa  mail readers. "
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Physics activity development

[Gary C Martin]

Hi Brian,

On 24 May 2009, at 18:36, Brian Jordan wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> Gary -- when you get a chance, can you add me as a committer on
> git.sl.o?  I'd like to help clean things up!

You're added! :-)

Can I request we try and make small clean commits and try to let  
others know what we are doing. If you want to hack, Gitorious supports  
quite a nice 'Clone repository' and then 'Request merge' process (no  
commit rights needed for the main project). The alternative, if you  
know what you are doing, is just make your own local git branch to  
hack on, so you can take care of any merge/conflict issues yourself  
when you fold it back into the current master.

I'm far from a git expert, but I can recommend some bed time reading at:

http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~cduan/technical/git/

and/or

http://gitready.com/

I'd like to get on with Labyrinth work, if you're willing to have an  
initial clean up of the Physics source in the next few days... so what  
was 'joysitck' feature all about? ;-)

Once the dev.sugarlabs.org component is added we should add the  
features/bugs in there to keep them all together. FWIW, from a UI  
point of view I had in mind:

1) remove/disable 'joysitick' feature as I have no idea what it was  
meant to be ;-)
2) build tool buttons correctly using RadioToolButton so they display  
state correctly
3) use set_accelerator to define visible keyboard shortcuts for the  
tools

> Asaf -- do you have a http://git.sugarlabs.org account yet?
>
> This is some feedback from Asaf (these could fit as enhancements in
> http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ ):
>
>> While playing with the activity I found a "pause" button to stop time
>> could be very useful. It's complicated to build elaborate  
>> contraptions
>> if everything keeps falling. Maybe while everything is paused,
>> positions an velocities of objects could be modified.
>>
>> A minor modification I suggest is to create a separate button for
>> adding push pins. It is not intuitive to add them using the link  
>> tool.
>> If there are plans about creating tutorial levels this isn't that
>> necessary although I don't see any harm on adding it.
>>
>> An other thing I think could be grate is to be able to create
>> attractors an repulsors. With stuff like this it gets pretty
>> interesting, we could have objects orbiting around the attractors.

Yes, all good stuff, there's also a list on 
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Physics_%28activity%29 
  as well, but I'd vote for cleaning up what we have first, perhaps  
adding a play/pause, and keeping Journal state so kids can actually  
keep their Physics creations (and send them to friends when using  
sugar 0.84).

Regards,
--Gary

> Thanks
>
> Brian
>
> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Gary C Martin  
>  wrote:
>> Hey Brian,
>>
>> On 24 May 2009, at 13:57, Brian Jordan wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Gary,
>>>
>>> First, I'm attaching Asaf Paris Mandoki, who contacted me last week
>>> with an interest in developing on the Physics activity, and has  
>>> great
>>> ideas of things to add.  This is a great opportunity!  :)
>>>
>>> I can handle getting Physics on gitorious, the bug tracker and  
>>> a.sl.o.
>>> I will try to complete this by the end of today.
>>
>> Having chatted with Alex Levenson, I've already kicked off the  
>> migration for
>> Physics (rep is now in Gitorious, trac request is in, and I've  
>> started to
>> poke at the code, running well at least in sugar-jhbuild and sugar  
>> 0.84).
>> X2o is next on my hit list once Physics is in a reasonable state.
>>
>>> The things I can use some help with are (1) integrating proper
>>> localization to the activity and
>>
>> Yep, I'm going to do a pass at the code and tidy up some partially
>> implemented / broken UI stuff, before requesting it's addition to  
>> pootle
>> (best to start with a reasonably stable set of strings). Would also  
>> like to
>> get/text resolution independence (for non XO hardware) and get the  
>> scene
>> state saving to Journal...
>>
>> Want to get the basics out the way first before we break it again  
>> with
>> exciting new features ;-)
>>
>>> (2) figuring out a good way to include the pybox2d source in the git
>>> repository, while including an
>>> F9-compatible binary on a.sl.o (this was brought up w.r.t. Pippy a
>>> couple of times on the fedora devel lists, but I don't remember  
>>> seeing
>>> a clear way of how to handle it).
>>
>> Yea I was worried this might be an issue needing resolved, it's not  
>> my area
>> of speciality, I'll need to take a deeper look at the source.
>>
>>> Thanks for the ping and your help!!
>>
>> No, thank you! I was expecting a wall of silence :-)
>>
>> Regards,
>> --Gary
>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Gary C Martin  
>>> 
>>> wrote:

 Hi Guys,

 I'm making contact to see if any of you are still interested in
 developing
 your great Physics activity? Most of the active activity  
 development has
 now
 moved over to Sugar

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] soas live cd on MacBook? How?

[Andrea Mangiatordi]

Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Beware that if "blessing" is similar to that of classic MacOS, then it
> includes adding a small binary piece that is *not* free software.  In
> other words, it may be illegal to publish SoaS as pre-blessed images.

Hi everybody,
I have a pre-Intel mac, so I can't test it directly, but AFAIK there are 
many linux distributions which run flawlessly on a Mac (both powerpc and 
intel) and they even have a livecd option (I can think of Ubuntu, but 
there can be others). So, if Ubuntu can boot, there should be a free 
software way to do it..

Hope this helps

Andrea


-- 
Andrea Mangiatordi

www.farfalla-project.org
www.bglug.it
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] soas live cd on MacBook? How?

[Sean DALY]

OSX has a CLI "bless" command which may do what is necessary.

I'll try to look into this, I have a recent Mac Mini

Sean


On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 08:19:53AM -0700, Caryl Bigenho wrote:
>>I had an idea in the shower this am (some of my best ideas come while I
>>am in the shower).  I think I may know what is going on with the Macs
>>and live Sugar CDs and how it might be fixed.
>>
>>
>>According to Apple, when you boot with the option key down, the
>>computer looks for all bootable items, eg the Mac HD, a Windows section
>>(via Boot Camp), an external drive, a USB stick, or a CD in the Macs
>>optical drive.  The item must contain all elements needed to be
>>bootable.  Sooo
>
> Please beware that Apple might have a different interpretation for the
> term "bootable".
>
> It might very well be (as was for sure with pre-Intel Macs!) that the
> nice Apple boot selector only lists things looking Mac-like (i.e. looks
> like a Darwin kernel).
>
> [...some google searching...]
>
> Indeed, that seems to be the case: You need to boot from a HFS+
> partition that is "blessed".  A solution seems to be here:
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=869324
>
>
> Beware that if "blessing" is similar to that of classic MacOS, then it
> includes adding a small binary piece that is *not* free software.  In
> other words, it may be illegal to publish SoaS as pre-blessed images.
> :-(
>
>
>  - Jonas
>
> - --
> * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
> * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
>
>  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEYEAREDAAYFAkoZcuQACgkQn7DbMsAkQLjC1wCgh8v+TjGasKsNGHJNarJONbl1
> U1UAn0rjHnFuaaVWKv3zLlS/qnriFqQL
> =1ldq
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Usage scenarios for Sugar?

[Walter Bender]

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 7:24 AM, Bastien  wrote:
[snip]
> A very general but powerful activity we also experimented: let the
> kids create a newspaper from scratch.  The topic was: Haitian public
> transportation.  The children went in the streets with the XO, made
> interviewed of people, took pictures of cars, buses, etc, wrote about
> ideas they had etc.  Activities involved: Write and Record.  I was not
> present when they did this, but I can redirect you to someone who can
> give more details, just let me know.

They may find these types from a editor colleague of mine of some interest:

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Learning_activities/Journalism

regards.

-walter
-- 
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Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Localization] Help activity

[Bastien]

Hi Diogo,

> 2009/5/14 Diogo Serra @ IPLEIRIA :
>> Hy there,
>>
>> Where i can find the *.po  of Help activity ?

To my knowledge, there is no *.po for the Help activity (but the user
"Pootle" is a committer in git.sugarlabs.org so I'm not 100% sure...)

The help activity is a collection of *.html page remixed from the
flossmanuals.com website: http://en.flossmanuals.net/

These pages are packaged in a .xo activity.  

Maybe Seth can tell us more on how to build a Help activity?  How did
you export the flossmanuals pages to html?  Raw scrapping?

HTH,

-- 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Simplifying sugar-jhbuild

[Bastien]

Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero  writes:

> You can use something like..
>
> git clone git://git.sugarlabs.org/project/mainline.git project
>
> to avoid creating folders by hand.

Yes, thanks!

-- 
 Bastien
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Simplifying sugar-jhbuild

[Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero]

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 6:31 AM, Bastien wrote:

> +1 on the overall.
>
> Building Sugar from source should be as easy as:
>
> ,
> | ~$ git://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar-core/mainline.git
> | ~$ ./configure
> | ~$ make
> | ~$ sudo make install
> `
>
> (Sidenote: I guess it's a gitorious thingy, but mainline.git is a pretty
> stupid name for a git repo. It forces the user to create folders by hand
> when pulling several projects.  Why not sugar-core.git?)
>

You can use something like..

git clone git://git.sugarlabs.org/project/mainline.git project


to avoid creating folders by hand.



> I would also advocate having sugar-jhbuild reduced to sugar-core, where
> the only activity is the Journal.  Other activities should be installed
> separately, either one by one or by bundle.
>
> Bernie Innocenti  writes:
>
> > Today I've kick-started a newbie on building Sugar to fix a small bug
> > and submit his first patch.
> >
> > It was just painful.  jhbuild has plenty of rough corners and we could
> > easily make things easier with a few changes:
> >
> > 1) Stop checking out random unstable versions of external projects.
> > They break very often, and we cannot fix them.  Let's instead upgrade
> > manually every once in a while after some testing.
> >
> > 2) Do not build C modules that is already available (and recent enough)
> > in popular distros.  Specifically: abiword, matchbox, hippocanvas...
> >
> > 3) Let's move etoys away from the base set of components: the repository
> > is often offline, building it breaks very often, and it takes a lot of
> > time.  You don't need it in order to test Sugar, the same way you don't
> > need TamTam and TurtleArt.
> >
> > 4) We could check for prerequisites before starting the build.  Some
> > configure scripts are stupid enough to fail tests silently and proceed
> > anyway using "no" as a command name in make :-)
> >
> > If there's consensus on implementing one or more of these points, I can
> > provide patches (or just go on and commit them).
>
> --
>  Bastien
> ___
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] soas live cd on MacBook? How?

[Jonas Smedegaard]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 08:19:53AM -0700, Caryl Bigenho wrote:
>I had an idea in the shower this am (some of my best ideas come while I 
>am in the shower).  I think I may know what is going on with the Macs 
>and live Sugar CDs and how it might be fixed.
>
>
>According to Apple, when you boot with the option key down, the 
>computer looks for all bootable items, eg the Mac HD, a Windows section 
>(via Boot Camp), an external drive, a USB stick, or a CD in the Macs 
>optical drive.  The item must contain all elements needed to be 
>bootable.  Sooo

Please beware that Apple might have a different interpretation for the 
term "bootable".

It might very well be (as was for sure with pre-Intel Macs!) that the 
nice Apple boot selector only lists things looking Mac-like (i.e. looks 
like a Darwin kernel).

[...some google searching...]

Indeed, that seems to be the case: You need to boot from a HFS+ 
partition that is "blessed".  A solution seems to be here: 
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=869324


Beware that if "blessing" is similar to that of classic MacOS, then it 
includes adding a small binary piece that is *not* free software.  In 
other words, it may be illegal to publish SoaS as pre-blessed images. 
:-(


  - Jonas

- -- 
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Simplifying sugar-jhbuild

[Bastien]

+1 on the overall.

Building Sugar from source should be as easy as:

,
| ~$ git://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar-core/mainline.git
| ~$ ./configure 
| ~$ make
| ~$ sudo make install
`

(Sidenote: I guess it's a gitorious thingy, but mainline.git is a pretty
stupid name for a git repo. It forces the user to create folders by hand
when pulling several projects.  Why not sugar-core.git?)

I would also advocate having sugar-jhbuild reduced to sugar-core, where
the only activity is the Journal.  Other activities should be installed
separately, either one by one or by bundle.

Bernie Innocenti  writes:

> Today I've kick-started a newbie on building Sugar to fix a small bug
> and submit his first patch.
>
> It was just painful.  jhbuild has plenty of rough corners and we could
> easily make things easier with a few changes:
>
> 1) Stop checking out random unstable versions of external projects.
> They break very often, and we cannot fix them.  Let's instead upgrade
> manually every once in a while after some testing.
>
> 2) Do not build C modules that is already available (and recent enough)
> in popular distros.  Specifically: abiword, matchbox, hippocanvas...
>
> 3) Let's move etoys away from the base set of components: the repository
> is often offline, building it breaks very often, and it takes a lot of
> time.  You don't need it in order to test Sugar, the same way you don't
> need TamTam and TurtleArt.
>
> 4) We could check for prerequisites before starting the build.  Some
> configure scripts are stupid enough to fail tests silently and proceed
> anyway using "no" as a command name in make :-)
>
> If there's consensus on implementing one or more of these points, I can
> provide patches (or just go on and commit them).

-- 
 Bastien
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Usage scenarios for Sugar?

[Bastien]

Sean DALY  writes:

> Hi everyone, we have been contacted by a monthly tech publication in
> Europe willing to devote several pages to Sugar in their summer issue!
>
> More specifically, advising parents how to download & run SoaS and do
> educational stuff with their kids during the summer holidays.
>
> Off the top of my head I suggested a scenario where Memorize is
> customized with family photos, a Turtle Art lesson, ...

The haitian team has been working a lot with Memorize.  You can find
some lesson plans here: http://olpchaiti.org/w/start?do=index (french)

A very general but powerful activity we also experimented: let the 
kids create a newspaper from scratch.  The topic was: Haitian public
transportation.  The children went in the streets with the XO, made
interviewed of people, took pictures of cars, buses, etc, wrote about
ideas they had etc.  Activities involved: Write and Record.  I was not
present when they did this, but I can redirect you to someone who can
give more details, just let me know.

-- 
 Bastien
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[Sugar-devel] wrong Activity versions for 8.2(.1) -- Etoys, Memorize, Terminal, Read, others

[S Page]

XO's running 8.2.0 and 8.2.1 (thus Sugar 0.82.1) can use the Software
update control panel to update an "activity group" of activities and
collections.  I believe Software update on 8.2.x determines the latest
versions from http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/G1G1/8.2

Unfortunately these version numbers are independent of the bundles
pointed to by activity pages and their semantic info, let alone newer
versions on http://activity.sugarlabs.org.  People recently fixed
Browse, but after running Software update to upgrade my 8.2.1
activities to latest version, I noticed several other discrepancies:

1. Software update doesn't update to latest version for 8.2.

Etoys at 94, but its web page's Activity_version says 98
   ==> Someone should update http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/Etoys_(8.2) !?
   ==> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addons/versions/4030
is up to 100, but doesn't list a version for Sugar 0.82

Memorize at 28 and its web page's Activity_version says 28, but
http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4063 says v.30 works
for Sugar 0.82
   ==> Someone should update
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/Memorize_(8.2) and
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/Memorize_(latest)

Read at 56, web page Activity_version says 52 and 61, and
http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addons/versions/4028
doesn't list a version for Sugar 0.82.
   ==> What is the latest Read version that works for 8.2.0?

Terminal at 18, but the web page's Activity_version says 19
   ==> Someone should update
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/Terminal_(8.2) !?
   ==> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addons/versions/4043
doesn't list a version for Sugar 0.82

Turtle Art is at 10, web page doesn't identify a tested release.
http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addons/versions/4027 is
all the way to version 51 but doesn't list a version for Sugar 0.82


2. Activity updates to a later version than its wiki.laptop.org web page

IMO just delete redundant and out-of-date info on wiki.laptop.org.
Blank out the activity_version and OBX xobundle info for the activity,
and use
the {{activity migrated to sl.o}} template as Aleksey has been doing.
See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Maintaining_activity_web_information

Browse at 102, web page Activity_version says its 98
also the web page's lang pootle links redirect to sugarlabs w/ bad
https and broken rewrite

TamTamEdit at 50, Mini at 49, SynthLab at 51; web page
Activity_version versions are 1 less than those.


3.  Activities/G1G1/8.2 mis-identifies the version for 8.2 as "(latest)".

Sometimes  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/G1G1/8.2 has the right
version for 8.2, but misidentifies it as the "latest" version when
activities.sugarlabs.org has something much more recent.  The fix is
to change this page to pull in the (8.2) fragment.

4.  I didn't grind through every versions page on
activities.sugarlabs.org.  If your activity has a more recent version
than what's listed here that works on 8.2.1/Sugar 0.82, please update
its fragment.

Here's the set of versions on my XO-1 running 8.2.1 after Software update:

Analyze.activity  8
Browse.activity 102
Calculate.activity   25
Chat.activity48
Distance.activity14
Etoys.activity   94
Firefox-6.activity6 (not in Activities/G1G1)
Help.activity10
Implode.activity  5
Log.activity 16
Maze.activity 6
Measure.activity 21
Memorize.activity28
Moon.activity10
Paint.activity   23
Pippy.activity   30
Read.activity56
Record.activity  59
Ruler.activity3
Scratch.activity 12
Speak.activity9
TamTamEdit.activity  50
TamTamJam.activity   51
TamTamMini.activity  49
TamTamSynthLab.activity  51
Terminal.activity18
TurtleArt.activity   10
WikipediaEN.activity  4
Write.activity   60

5. There are many other activities not part of the G1G1 activities
group that are out-of-date on wiki.laptop.org.  For example,
Colors! web page Activity_version says its 13, but
http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addons/versions/4050 says
version 15 is latest.  Again, I think blanking it out and indicated
the version for Sugar 0.82 on Activities.sugarlabs.org's "See All
Versions" is the way to go.

Cheers,
--
=S Page
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