date:20090812

On 08/11/2009 07:27 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
 Hi,

 have tried to clarify and explain the rationale behind the code review
 process in the wiki:

 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Code_Review
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Code_guidelines

 Would welcome any comments.

 Thanks,

 Tomeu

Two things I came across when playing with the review process today. I 
guess we could point the PYLINTRC env variable to the 
~/sugar-jhbuild/scripts/data/pylintrc

Do we agree on all the standards in the pep8? Do we only have to fix the 
errors? Examples:

[eri...@laptop sugar]$ python 
/home/erikos/sugar-jhbuild/scripts/data/pep8.py 
src/jarabe/journal/journaltoolbox.py
src/jarabe/journal/journaltoolbox.py:2:36: W291 trailing whitespace
src/jarabe/journal/journaltoolbox.py:62:5: E301 expected 1 blank line, 
found 0
src/jarabe/journal/journaltoolbox.py:70:1: E302 expected 2 blank lines, 
found 1
src/jarabe/journal/journaltoolbox.py:76:38: E202 whitespace before '}'

Or should we make our own version of the pep8 like we did with our pylintrc?

Regards,
Simon
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Re: [Sugar-devel] code review guidelines updated

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 01:58, Jim Simmonsnices...@gmail.com wrote:
 Tomeu,

 When Aleksey made changes to Read Etexts to support the gstreamer
 espeak plugin he had written he made a clone of the Activity in
 gitorious, and later this clone was merged back into the mainline.  I
 thought this worked pretty well from my standpoint because I could
 look at his code before doing the merge and understand what he was
 doing first.  I have also appied patches and don't like that nearly as
 well.

 I have already recommended to someone that wanted to modify one of my
 Activities that he follow Aleksey's example and clone the Activity.

Yes, I will update the wiki noting this possibility. A cloned tree
works better than patches for big changes, but as the guidelines
mention, it's better if the work is split in smaller units of work
that can be reviewed and accepted independently. This is not always
possible, though.

Thanks,

Tomeu

 James Simmons


 Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:27:24 +0200
 From: Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org
 Subject: [Sugar-devel] code review guidelines updated
 To: sugar-devel sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
 Message-ID:
        242851610908111027w69f86b10y4a8d2b9d0d18b...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 Hi,

 have tried to clarify and explain the rationale behind the code review
 process in the wiki:

 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Code_Review
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Code_guidelines

 Would welcome any comments.

 Thanks,

 Tomeu
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Design help needed for web applications within Sugar

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 22:02, Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com wrote:
 On 11 Aug 2009, at 18:25, Eben Eliason wrote:

 On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Lucian
 Branesculucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote:
 2009/8/11 Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de:
 On 08/11/2009 12:14 PM, Lucian Branescu wrote:

 In fact, there is the option to install the SSB activity as well,
 http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/317039/create%20ssb.png

 Yes seen that.

 rgs on IRC suggested that the 'Keep in Journal' button could either
 save an offline version by itself or there could be a drop down
 with
 several options.

 Do you mean the activity keep button? Like the one in Write -
 where we have
 the options to save a richt text format or others? If yes - yeah
 that sounds
 like a good option actually.

 I'll go ahead and try to implement that, then.


 About modifying SSBs, right now all the tools for modification are
 inside the actul activity. I'd like to see modification of
 userscripts
 and userstyles done in 'View Source' (as well).

 Oh, yeah view source. Sounds interesting to me, too. We just need
 to make
 sure to not overload it. I mean editing text is easy. When it
 comes to
 changing the icon it gets more complicated, though.

 Perhaps the Sugar shell should allow users to change activity icons?

 It's an unfortunate fact that there is no activity suitable for
 creating SVG icons for Sugar. We need a Draw activity to fill this
 gap and compliment Paint...

 In any case, View Source already has Document view and Bundle view.
 We
 could either expand Document view to have a TreeView on the left like
 Bundle view or create a separate Editables view.

 I hesitate to overload the view source mechanism this way, actually.
 Should we instead be providing a seamless mechanism for modifying
 code, icons, etc. with other activities, so that users (eventually)
 have choices regarding their editors? View source is a logical step in
 the process, so we should certainly expose the ability to launch into
 editing from there, of course. I suppose an alternative argument can
 be made for the level of integration we could provide when editing
 within the view source dialog. If we could hook it up to have
 real-time effect on the running activity, so that making a change
 couldbe tested right away, that may make it worth doing...

 If View Source makes it to Edit Source, it could be reasonable to
 expect that if you do modify and then close the source editor you
 would raise an Activity like alert bar with something like Activity
 needs to re-start for changes to take effect (Discard changes) (Re-
 start activity). I understand that Guido van Rossum had some
 proposals for Sugar to pick up live Python edit changes, but I guess
 that's water long under the bridge now given current Sugar Labs
 resources.

Didn't looked as something so ground breaking, I would say it's just
waiting for someone to spend a weekend and come up with a prototype.

Regards,

Tomeu

 Regards,
 --Gary

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[Sugar-devel] modifying and reloading python code (was Re: Design help needed for web applications within Sugar)

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:45, Tomeu Vizosoto...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
 On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 22:02, Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com wrote:

 If View Source makes it to Edit Source, it could be reasonable to
 expect that if you do modify and then close the source editor you
 would raise an Activity like alert bar with something like Activity
 needs to re-start for changes to take effect (Discard changes) (Re-
 start activity). I understand that Guido van Rossum had some
 proposals for Sugar to pick up live Python edit changes, but I guess
 that's water long under the bridge now given current Sugar Labs
 resources.

 Didn't looked as something so ground breaking, I would say it's just
 waiting for someone to spend a weekend and come up with a prototype.

Looks like we may have a candidate, so here is the relevant post from Guido:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2007-February/007787.html

Have fun,

Tomeu
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Re: [Sugar-devel] New SoaS-on-XO-1 build done: soasxo51

2009-08-12 Thread Martin Dengler

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:45:22AM +0530, Joshua N Pritikin wrote:
 On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 03:01:16AM +, Martin Dengler wrote:
  soasxo51.tree.tar.lzma - for hacking
 
 When I boot this build, it seems to go okay. The screen switches to 
 white, but sugar never starts.

I'd start by logging in from another VT (Ctrl-Alt-F2, for example) and
trying to diagnose X / Sugar problems from there.  You might start
with /var/log/Xorg.0.log and /home/olpc/.sugar/default/logs/shell.log.

Martin


pgpl0bsJYLZb4.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: [Sugar-devel] WatchMe-1, a VNC activity

2009-08-12 Thread Christoph Derndorfer

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Benjamin M. Schwartz 
bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Announcing WatchMe-1, an activity that brings VNC to Sugar.

 How to try it:
 On two Sugar instances:
 1. su -c yum install gtk-vnc-python (or equivalent for your operating
 system)
 2. Install http://bemasc.net/~bens/WatchMe-1.xo
 3. Start the activity on one instance, and share it with the other.

 What it does:
 WatchMe lets you share a view of your screen.  Anyone who joins a shared
 WatchMe instance can see everything that happens on the initiator's
 screen.  Participants cannot affect the contents of the screen; WatchMe is
 view-only.

 Why do this:
 Live sharing of screens may have educational utility.  Most obviously, it
 allows live demonstrations of arbitrary actions from one screen to others.

 How it works:
 WatchMe contains a static binary of x11vnc [1], a VNC server that shares
 an existing X session.  The initiator starts a server, accepting
 connections only from localhost.  The activity forwards the localhost port
 over a Telepathy stream tube.  Joiners connect to the stream tube, and
 connect a VNC client to it.  The VNC client is gtk-vnc's python bindings
 [2].

 Help needed:
 1. The GUI is singularly uninspiring.  GUI developers help welcome.
 2. The package has external dependencies and contains static binaries,
 both of which are irritating.  Unfortunately, neither x11vnc nor any
 suitable substitute is packaged for Fedora, so binaries in the package are
 unavoidable.  Therefore, moving all dependencies into the bundle would be
 helpful, but I don't know how.
 3. gtk-vnc-viewer is terribly slow and laggy.  RealVNC's vncviewer [3] is
 much faster and generally better, but I cannot figure out how to use it in
 an activity.  It opens its own X window, which appears separately in the
 activities tray as an anonymous circle.  Help from someone who understands
 window management would be greatly appreciated.
 4. Testing.  In particular, scalability would be good to know.  I suspect
 that more than about 4 simultaneous clients will become unusable on a
 wireless network, but this is purely a guess.
 5. More advanced functionality?  Remote screenshots? Sound? Unix sockets?
 XS reflectors?

 Security notes:
 WatchMe does not represent a significant security threat, in my opinion.
 It does not permit remote users to take any  action on your machine except
 to fetch bitmaps.  If you share a session by invitation, then only invited
 users may participate.  However, it is worth noting that WatchMe would be
 impossible to implement as an activity in a more secure Sugar system.  An
 arbitrary activity should not be able to observe all of the user's actions
 and transmit those actions in full over the network.  Moreover, WatchMe is
 only a few lines of code away from an activity that allows the remote user
 to control your mouse and keyboard.

 If a security system is ever implemented that breaks WatchMe, I will be
 happy, and I will gladly rewrite it as a Glucose component.

 [1] http://www.karlrunge.com/x11vnc/
 [2] http://live.gnome.org/gtk-vnc
 [3] http://www.realvnc.com/products/free/4.1/man/vncviewer.html


Just tried WatchMe on two XOs (one using Nepal's NEXO image, the other
one on 802) connected via
WiFi and it worked really well:-)

Now we need to figure out how to make this an easy-to-use support tool for
teachers...
Not surprisingly one of the first requests I heard from the Austrian pilot
was whether it was possible to somehow make what's happening on the
teacher's display available to all the pupils. The solution (well, it's
actually more of a hack job) I decided to use for the moment being was to:

* install the VNC Launcher activitiy (
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/VNC_Launcher) on both teacher XOs,
* install the UltraVNC viewer on their regular classroom PC running Windows
(which is hooked up to the classroom beamer) and
* write a short but *very* clear set of instructions on how to use the setup

While this does basically work setting it up takes precious minutes away
from the teacher's actual teaching time (booting the classroom PC, turning
on the beamer, logging in via VNC, etc.).

So a solution that is well integrated in Sugar and works on the XOs without
requiring extra equipment is undoubtably something that a lot of people
would find useful!

Cheers,
Christoph

-- 
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co-editor, olpcnews
url: www.olpcnews.com
e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com
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[Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?


Hi,

I just ported the hello world example to the new toolbar design [1]. I 
remember that once Gary pointed out, that simple activities will look 
'empty' when we move them to the new design (screenshot attached), Chat 
would be a famous case. Most of the activities does have options, though.


How do we go forward with that? Live with that compromise? Other ideas?

Thanks,
   Simon

[1] 
http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/hello-world/repos/mainline/blobs/master/activity.py#line36
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[Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Re: #1157 HIGH: Show which jabber server to which you are connected

Any opinions? Every other deployer thinks this is a good idea?

Regards,

Tomeu

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 01:38, SugarLabs
Bugsbugtracker-nore...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
 #1157: Show which jabber server to which you are connected
 +---
    Reporter:  dfarning     |          Owner:  tomeu
        Type:  enhancement  |         Status:  new
    Priority:  High         |      Milestone:  Unspecified by Release Team
   Component:  sugar        |        Version:  0.84.x
    Severity:  Unspecified  |     Resolution:
    Keywords:               |   Distribution:  SoaS
 Status_field:  New          |
 +---

 Comment(by CarolineM):

  The UI should also indicate if you are connected locally or to a jabber
  server.

  User STory: WiFi access points require login before they connect to the
  internet.  Currently if you connect to them you will locally see other
  people connected to them, until you login to connect to the internet, then
  at some point Sugar will try to connect to the Jabber server, notice that
  it can, and all of a sudden the user sees an entirely different set of
  people on the jabber server.

  We should at least provide some clues to the user as to what is happening
  by telling them they are connected locally or what jabber server.

 --
 Ticket URL: http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1157#comment:2
 Sugar Labs http://sugarlabs.org/
 Sugar Labs bug tracking system

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Re: #1157 HIGH: Show which jabber server to which you are connected

2009-08-12 Thread Daniel Drake

2009/8/12 Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org:
 Any opinions? Every other deployer thinks this is a good idea?

Yes. OLPC deployments have historically had this tool in the form of
olpc-netstatus which is indeed very useful. Sugar should provide an
equivalent.

I wouldn't say it's important to expose in the UI itself, but if you
want to go that route then 2 places would spring to mind. First would
be some kind of visual indiciation or mouseover of the school server
when we display it on the neighborhood view (long term design
proposition but never implemented), and the 2nd one could be in the
palette for the network view.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] New SoaS-on-XO-1 build done: soasxo51

2009-08-12 Thread Joshua N Pritikin

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:42:23AM +0100, Martin Dengler wrote:
 On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:45:22AM +0530, Joshua N Pritikin wrote:
  On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 03:01:16AM +, Martin Dengler wrote:
   soasxo51.tree.tar.lzma - for hacking
  
  When I boot this build, it seems to go okay. The screen switches to 
  white, but sugar never starts.
 
 I'd start by logging in from another VT (Ctrl-Alt-F2, for example) and
 trying to diagnose X / Sugar problems from there.  You might start
 with /var/log/Xorg.0.log and /home/olpc/.sugar/default/logs/shell.log.

I tried that, but none of the X hotkeys work. In a normal boot, the 
screen changes from white to gray as sugar loads. In my botched image, 
the screen stays white and nothing happens.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Results of today's Jabber Testing

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:57 AM, Tomeu Vizosoto...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
 I would also like to know if when things go wrong, you have any
 mentions of timeouts in the telepathy-gabble.log file. As a more
 general strategy, we could compare telepathy-gabble.log between the
 machines that work and doesn't and try to find any correlation.

Good point. The machines may be alternating between gabble and salut.

cheers,



m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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[Sugar-devel] Karma specifications

2009-08-12 Thread Christoph Derndorfer

Hi,
as discussed during the IRC meeting earlier today I've started collecting
some thoughts on Karma lesson specifications (or rather recommendations).

You can find them at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Karma/Specifications

As always, let me know what you think:-)

Cheers,
Christoph

-- 
Christoph Derndorfer
co-editor, olpcnews
url: www.olpcnews.com
e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com
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Re: [Sugar-devel] How to not make a window?

Benjamin M. Schwartz writes:

 I am trying to create a sugar activity that wraps a
 simple X application.

Have you tried using the sugarize code? If it fails,
let me know how. You really shouldn't need Python to
wrap a simple X application.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] WatchMe-1, a VNC activity

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:25 AM, Benjamin M.
Schwartzbmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
 Announcing WatchMe-1, an activity that brings VNC to Sugar.

Fantastic!

 Help needed:
 5. More advanced functionality?  Remote screenshots? Sound? Unix sockets?
 XS reflectors?

We are going to have to figure out how to deal with the traffic it
generates. One-to-many is unsustainable on a wireless network using
unicast, and is unsustainable on a wireless network using multicast
(but for very different reasons!).

Either way, this is going to be a nasty RF hog. How do we handle this hogginess?

 - can we use multicast frames... and get the APs speeds bumped up to
do a fast multicast so as to not use up all the airtime?

 - if in the presence of an XS (with or without a reflector...) we can
use a simple soft lock so that only one session runs at any given
time?

 However, it is worth noting that WatchMe would be
 impossible to implement as an activity in a more secure Sugar system.

Ah, so won't run with Rainbow, right?

cheers,




m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?

Would it be possible to offer a more compact design, with a single
bar, but with the new API?

2009/8/12 Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de:
 Hi,

 I just ported the hello world example to the new toolbar design [1]. I
 remember that once Gary pointed out, that simple activities will look
 'empty' when we move them to the new design (screenshot attached), Chat
 would be a famous case. Most of the activities does have options, though.

 How do we go forward with that? Live with that compromise? Other ideas?

 Thanks,
   Simon

 [1]
 http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/hello-world/repos/mainline/blobs/master/activity.py#line36

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Deployment feedback braindump

S Page writes:
 On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Daniel Drakedsd at laptop.org wrote:

 adding an interactivity component that would be impossible
 to have when working with paper-based exercise books.

 And impossible with PDFs.

No way. PDFs can be interactive in many ways.

First of all, a PDF is pretty much just well-behaved postscript.
You can embed that in more postscript. The user can thus scribble
all over the document.

Second, the PDF format has long had form support. It's pretty much
like HTML forms, but much more attractive. I've used this several
times in xpdf and/or evince, and it works very well. You get the
choice of filling out the PDF form directly, or doing things the
traditional way on paper.

Finally, you can put JavaScript in a PDF. I'm not sure if any of
the free software viewers can handle this yet. In theory you can
have all sorts of animations. It's kind of like flash.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Re: #1157 HIGH: Show which jabber server to which you are connected

El Wed, 12-08-2009 a las 16:31 +0545, Daniel Drake escribió:
 2009/8/12 Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org:
  Any opinions? Every other deployer thinks this is a good idea?
 
 Yes. OLPC deployments have historically had this tool in the form of
 olpc-netstatus which is indeed very useful. Sugar should provide an
 equivalent.

We might want to break the old olpc-utils in two packages: one
containing all the XO specific hacks, and one with the generic stuff
that would make sense also on SoaS and on common Linux distros.

On second thought, we don't really need to split it: we might as well
rename it to sugar-utils and genericize it so it behaves nicely when not
running on the XO.

Are you the current maintainer of olpc-utils?  I used to be, but now I
don't feel like I have enough spare cycles to work on it.

-- 
   // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/
 \X/  Sugar Labs   - http://sugarlabs.org/


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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] New activity: Arithmetic.

First of all, it's wonderful to finally see this activity.

Plenty of words in the UI are not easy, starting with difficulty. :-)

There doesn't seem to be any scratch space to work in, but I'm just
looking at the screen shot. Can the user lay out a long division in
the standard form? Can the user have some place to write out extra
numbers for borrow/carry (optionally tiny) and possibly cross out the
original numbers? There are at least two styles for this, with tiny
numbers probably the norm when doing multi-digit multiplication.

The 3 difficulty levels are kind of vague. Just for addition I can
think of...

0..9 plus 0..9 resulting in 0..9
0..9 plus 0..9 resulting in 0..18
0..9 plus 0..9 plus optional-one resulting in 0..19
multi-digit w/o carry
multi-digit w/ carry, no change in number of digits
arbitrary multi-digit

That's w/o even considering decimals, negative numbers, fractions,
and worse. Subtraction has an extra level, because borrowing is
harder when you need to borrow from a zero.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Deployment feedback braindump

El Wed, 12-08-2009 a las 07:22 -0400, Albert Cahalan escribió:
 Finally, you can put JavaScript in a PDF. I'm not sure if any of
 the free software viewers can handle this yet. In theory you can
 have all sorts of animations. It's kind of like flash.

Yes, and it's kind of like SVG, too.

And isn't it funny how one company monopolizes *all* these vector
graphics standards that were supposed to compete with each other:
PostScript, PDF, Flash and SVG.


-- 
   // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/
 \X/  Sugar Labs   - http://sugarlabs.org/


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Deployment feedback braindump

Adobe apparently loves vectors.

JavaScript-in-PDF is mostly a joke and a big security risk. It's not
something to be relied upon.

Forms are about as much interaction as PDF get without becoming
dangerous or moot.

2009/8/12 Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org:
 El Wed, 12-08-2009 a las 07:22 -0400, Albert Cahalan escribió:
 Finally, you can put JavaScript in a PDF. I'm not sure if any of
 the free software viewers can handle this yet. In theory you can
 have all sorts of animations. It's kind of like flash.

 Yes, and it's kind of like SVG, too.

 And isn't it funny how one company monopolizes *all* these vector
 graphics standards that were supposed to compete with each other:
 PostScript, PDF, Flash and SVG.


 --
   // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/
  \X/  Sugar Labs       - http://sugarlabs.org/


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Re: [Sugar-devel] modifying and reloading python code (was Re: Design help needed for web applications within Sugar)

2009-08-12 Thread Walter Bender

I tried using xreload.py when I was struggling with Rainbow
interactions in Turtle Art (you may recall that I let users load code
they modify in Pippy). Never did get it to work as advertised, but
never figured out the root cause of my problem either. Most likely my
doing something stupid.

-walter

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:03 AM, Tomeu Vizosoto...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
 On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:45, Tomeu Vizosoto...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
 On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 22:02, Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com wrote:

 If View Source makes it to Edit Source, it could be reasonable to
 expect that if you do modify and then close the source editor you
 would raise an Activity like alert bar with something like Activity
 needs to re-start for changes to take effect (Discard changes) (Re-
 start activity). I understand that Guido van Rossum had some
 proposals for Sugar to pick up live Python edit changes, but I guess
 that's water long under the bridge now given current Sugar Labs
 resources.

 Didn't looked as something so ground breaking, I would say it's just
 waiting for someone to spend a weekend and come up with a prototype.

 Looks like we may have a candidate, so here is the relevant post from Guido:

 http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2007-February/007787.html

 Have fun,

 Tomeu
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[Sugar-devel] Interactive Ebooks [Re: Deployment feedback braindump]

2009-08-12 Thread Sayamindu Dasgupta

Hi,

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Albert Cahalanacaha...@gmail.com wrote:
 S Page writes:
 On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Daniel Drakedsd at laptop.org wrote:

 adding an interactivity component that would be impossible
 to have when working with paper-based exercise books.

 And impossible with PDFs.

 No way. PDFs can be interactive in many ways.

 First of all, a PDF is pretty much just well-behaved postscript.
 You can embed that in more postscript. The user can thus scribble
 all over the document.


In this context, I have been playing around with Read + Epub - and I
have posted a short, unstructured dump of my thoughts at
http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings/2009/08/12/braindump-on-ebooks/

Some screencasts:

** http://dev.laptop.org/~sayamindu/interactive_books_video/video.ogv
- shows that a video clip can be embedded in a book readable by Read

** http://dev.laptop.org/~sayamindu/interactive_books_video/python.ogv
- shows that a python shell can be embedded in a book readable by Read

** http://dev.laptop.org/~sayamindu/interactive_books_video/digital_logic.ogv
- shows that a etoys simulation can be embedded in a book readable by Read

I have also started to experiment with ebooks as exercise books -
HTML5 local storage looks promising, and with some magic at the school
server end, we might be able to get something done. I'll resume my
experiments during the weekends, and will post updates when I have
some progress.
Of course - none of this is _standard_ epub, and I'll try to figure
out where I can get information about planned updates to the Epub
spec, and if this type of use-case can be accommodated into the next
version.

Thanks,
Sayamindu

-- 
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[http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings]
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Re: [Sugar-devel] New SoaS-on-XO-1 build done: soasxo51

2009-08-12 Thread Martin Dengler

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 04:17:22PM +0530, Joshua N Pritikin wrote:
 On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:42:23AM +0100, Martin Dengler wrote:
  On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:45:22AM +0530, Joshua N Pritikin wrote:
   On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 03:01:16AM +, Martin Dengler wrote:
soasxo51.tree.tar.lzma - for hacking
   
   When I boot this build, it seems to go okay. The screen switches to 
   white, but sugar never starts.
  
  I'd start by logging in from another VT (Ctrl-Alt-F2, for example) and
  trying to diagnose X / Sugar problems from there.  You might start
  with /var/log/Xorg.0.log and /home/olpc/.sugar/default/logs/shell.log.
 
 I tried that, but none of the X hotkeys work. In a normal boot, the 
 screen changes from white to gray as sugar loads. In my botched image, 
 the screen stays white and nothing happens.

Can you try again?  You might also try Alt + Left/Right arrows.  These
VT-switching keys have nothing to do with X, and if you aren't getting
to the point where they will do anything the the image is seriously
screwed up.

Pretty boot is not enabled so you should be seeing plenty of kernel
messages before you see a white X screen.

Martin


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Results of today's Jabber Testing

2009-08-12 Thread Dave Bauer

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Caroline
 Meekscarol...@solutiongrove.com wrote:
  I worked with the RIT contingent and Dave Farning today to do some
  collaboration testing.
  We tested with 8 computers on a rarely used dev XS system hosted by
 Solution
  Grove.

 Interesting!

 Your report is a bit confusing so I will

  - you had no problems connecting 8 users to a vanilla XS running some
 0.6d, right?
  - but later on jabber.s.o you had problems with 29 users...

 Is that correct?

 What sw is jabber.s.o running? Does it deviate in any way from a
 recent XS 0.6? Could network problems explain part of the problem?


jabber.sl.o is XS 0.5.2 stock install. It has 2GB of ram. Both xsdev and
jabber.sl.o are virtual machines on the same network in the same rack.


 What did ejabberdctl connected-users say at the points when users were
 appearing/disappearing? Did ejabberd see them come and go? Or did it
 think they were connected all the time?

connected-users reported the correct number, so when they were disconnecting
and connectng, it was changing the reported number of connected-users.


 These are very basic questions -- when doing this testing, you'll want
 someone looking at the jabber server, dumping connected-users and
 asking the Sugar users to run `olpc-xos` to compare.


We were using the Analyze activity to compare. On the 0.6 server it matched.
I was watching the server and Analyze at te same time.


 In fact a time-series of captures of `olpc-xos` on each Sugar / XO
 client and  `ejabberd connected-users` on the XS, plus a verbose log
 from ejabberd would tell you a lot.


olpc-xos command is not installed on SoaS. Maybe we can add that. Using
analyze we can see the real-time connection but I don't see any way to
capture the data historically.

Dave


 cheers,



 m
 --
  martin.langh...@gmail.com
  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
  - ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?

2009-08-12 Thread Eben Eliason

Last we discussed this, I think we decided that activities which don't
modify the toolbars in any way should have a single toolbar containing
all of the activity toolbar controls: title entry, sharing, keep, etc.
Only if the activity wanted to modify the toolbars would the activity
specific stuff be moved under a toolbar button.

I recall coming to the same conclusion with Christian as well.

Eben


On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Lucian
Branesculucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote:
 Would it be possible to offer a more compact design, with a single
 bar, but with the new API?

 2009/8/12 Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de:
 Hi,

 I just ported the hello world example to the new toolbar design [1]. I
 remember that once Gary pointed out, that simple activities will look
 'empty' when we move them to the new design (screenshot attached), Chat
 would be a famous case. Most of the activities does have options, though.

 How do we go forward with that? Live with that compromise? Other ideas?

 Thanks,
   Simon

 [1]
 http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/hello-world/repos/mainline/blobs/master/activity.py#line36

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?

2009-08-12 Thread Christian Marc Schmidt

Yes, I agree. Unless everyone is on the same page, it may make sense to
schedule a meeting this weekend, also to go over proposals for list view in
Neighborhood and to discuss groups. What does everyone think?

Christian

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Eben Eliason eben.elia...@gmail.comwrote:

Last we discussed this, I think we decided that activities which don't
modify the toolbars in any way should have a single toolbar containing
all of the activity toolbar controls: title entry, sharing, keep, etc.
Only if the activity wanted to modify the toolbars would the activity
specific stuff be moved under a toolbar button.

I recall coming to the same conclusion with Christian as well.

Eben

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Lucian
Branesculucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote:
Would it be possible to offer a more compact design, with a single
bar, but with the new API?

2009/8/12 Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de:
Hi,

I just ported the hello world example to the new toolbar design [1]. I
remember that once Gary pointed out, that simple activities will look
'empty' when we move them to the new design (screenshot attached), Chat
would be a famous case. Most of the activities does have options,
though.

How do we go forward with that? Live with that compromise? Other ideas?

Thanks,
Simon

[1]

http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/hello-world/repos/mainline/blobs/master/activity.py#line36

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http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com

917/ 575 0013
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Re: [Sugar-devel] WatchMe-1, a VNC activity

2009-08-12 Thread James Cameron

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 07:15:01AM -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote:
  - can we use multicast frames... [...]

There are two multicast VNC implementations that I'm aware of that have
a permissive license ...

http://www2.in.tum.de/~ziewer/multicastvnc/

http://teleteaching.uni-trier.de/

The latter seems the most active.  Unfortunately it looks like they are
both Java based.

My gut feel is that converting existing Linux VNC applications to use
multicast would not be a huge technical challenge.  I'm not (yet)
volunteering.

-- 
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http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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[Sugar-devel] Deployment Team meeting on Wednesday August 19th - 14:00 UTC

2009-08-12 Thread Pilar Saenz

Hi,

It's time to revive Deployment Team.
Next meeting Wednesday August 19th - at 14 UTC (9 EST) on
irc.freenode.net (channel: #sugar-meeting).
Please add to the agenda below and please join in with your ideas.

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Deployment_Team/Meetings/Minutes/2009-08-19

best regards,

-- 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Moodle]About the has_capability() function

2009-08-12 Thread Vamsi Krishna Davuluri

Hi Martin,

We've done exactly as you've said.
I should release both Sugar Print And Moodle Print in a couple of
hours. There's an annoying bug about selecting page ranges
when generating a pdf/ or printing it that I'm trying to fix.
And I  realise I forgot adding a footer for log out to moodle
print.

I will also need someone who can test it on an XS, as I failed to
configure one.

Thanks,
Vamsi

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 6:52 AM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:33 AM, Vamsi Krishna
 Davulurivdavul...@acm.org wrote:
  Hi Martin,
  I am sold with the blocks concept ;)

 Hey! That's excelletn news! Sorry about the long latency.

  Though:
 
  I have finally wrapped things with the XML-RPC stuff for assignment-clone
  (which is print) module

 Good.

  My idea was do anything new only after having a backup. But there's
 still
  the authentication stuff

 Um. That's not going to be very satisfactory for end users. They don't
 know if it's backedup, they don't have direct control over the backup,
 and it happens only once a day.

  that's at question. How do i tell moodle this is from an user X and how
 do I

 You can include -- in the POST data -- the SN and UUID of the machine.
 See how Browse.xo is doing, and perhaps the recent changes by Hamilton
 Chua about ds-backup

  tell moodle that this will
  go into a particular course module ( I see no way to beat this without
  having  a selection UI in the
  client).

 Forget about it being in a course because Sugar has no such concept.
 It belongs to no course. The Moodle side should make it always about
 the 'sitecourse'.

 hth



 m
 --
  martin.langh...@gmail.com
  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
  - ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [PATCH] tool accelerator keys add objects to the world

Hi Martin,

On 12 Aug 2009, at 01:27, Martin Dengler wrote:

 Make it easy to add lots of objects to the world quickly by drawing
 one shape, then pressing the key of the shape tool a few times to add
 a few copies of that object to the tool.  Erase objects by hovering
 and pressing E (the erase tool key).

 Reduces the need to click the mouse while moving it, which is
 especially hard on the OLPC XO-1 touchpad.

Thanks for the patch. Unfortunately we're really close to a Physics-3  
release which already bit rots some of this. I'll take a look at your  
patch in a future cycle and see if the behaviour still makes sense for  
us (I worry that this is a non standard/expected behaviour, but do  
like the intent).

FWIW, for future patches it's a much smoother ride if you use the  
Gitorious clone repository feature, that way everyone involved will  
know you're working on something, and can easily view and keep up with  
changes.

Regards,
--Gary
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [PATCH] tool accelerator keys add objects to the world

2009-08-12 Thread Martin Dengler

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 02:43:15PM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote:
 Hi Martin,

 On 12 Aug 2009, at 01:27, Martin Dengler wrote:

 Make it easy to add lots of objects to the world quickly by drawing
 one shape, then pressing the key of the shape tool a few times to add
 a few copies of that object to the tool.  Erase objects by hovering
 and pressing E (the erase tool key).

 Reduces the need to click the mouse while moving it, which is
 especially hard on the OLPC XO-1 touchpad.

 Thanks for the patch. Unfortunately we're really close to a Physics-3  
 release which already bit rots some of this. I'll take a look at your  
 patch in a future cycle and see if the behaviour still makes sense for  
 us (I worry that this is a non standard/expected behaviour, but do like 
 the intent).

Ok - I encourage you to try it out once - it's quite fun.  Thanks for
you/everyones work on Physics.

 FWIW, for future patches it's a much smoother ride if you use the  
 Gitorious clone repository feature, that way everyone involved will  
 know you're working on something, and can easily view and keep up with  
 changes.

Ok - I just hacked it up in an hour or so, so I didn't think a new
repo was justified.

 Regards,
 --Gary

Martin



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Re: [Sugar-devel] Results of today's Jabber Testing

2009-08-12 Thread Dave Bauer

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Dave Bauer d...@solutiongrove.com wrote:



 On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Martin Langhoff 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Caroline
 Meekscarol...@solutiongrove.com wrote:
  I worked with the RIT contingent and Dave Farning today to do some
  collaboration testing.
  We tested with 8 computers on a rarely used dev XS system hosted by
 Solution
  Grove.

 Interesting!

 Your report is a bit confusing so I will

  - you had no problems connecting 8 users to a vanilla XS running some
 0.6d, right?
  - but later on jabber.s.o you had problems with 29 users...

 Is that correct?

 What sw is jabber.s.o running? Does it deviate in any way from a
 recent XS 0.6? Could network problems explain part of the problem?


 jabber.sl.o is XS 0.5.2 stock install. It has 2GB of ram. Both xsdev and
 jabber.sl.o are virtual machines on the same network in the same rack.


Note, I was able to simply and easily install gadget on the XS 0.6 install
so it was ALSO using gadget, and I am not sure how this might affect the
performance.

Dave






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Re: [Sugar-devel] Deployment feedback braindump

El Wed, 12-08-2009 a las 13:28 +0100, Lucian Branescu escribió:
 Adobe apparently loves vectors.

And monopolies.


 JavaScript-in-PDF is mostly a joke and a big security risk. It's not
 something to be relied upon.

It might be useless, but I don't see why it should be more risky than
Javascript in web browsers, which everybody happily accepted without
much thought.  Is JS in PDF even allowed to make HTTP connections?


 Forms are about as much interaction as PDF get without becoming
 dangerous or moot.

How do you dubmit the form?  By HTTP?  Does the PDF reader tell the user
when it's going to make this connection?

Knowing how proprietary software companies think, I wouldn't ever dare
using Adobe Acrobat Reader.  But I blindly trust Evince, Okular and all
free PDF readers to do whatever it takes to protect my security and
privacy regardless of what the document or the PDF standard tells them
to do.

-- 
   // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/
 \X/  Sugar Labs   - http://sugarlabs.org/


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Results of today's Jabber Testing

2009-08-12 Thread David Farning

Thanks for the advice.

We will be going to do some more tests this morning.  I think we will
spend a while learning about the tools which you and martin mentioned
then run another debug session.

david

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Dave Bauerd...@solutiongrove.com wrote:


 On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Caroline
 Meekscarol...@solutiongrove.com wrote:
  I worked with the RIT contingent and Dave Farning today to do some
  collaboration testing.
  We tested with 8 computers on a rarely used dev XS system hosted by
  Solution
  Grove.

 Interesting!

 Your report is a bit confusing so I will

  - you had no problems connecting 8 users to a vanilla XS running some
 0.6d, right?
  - but later on jabber.s.o you had problems with 29 users...

 Is that correct?

 What sw is jabber.s.o running? Does it deviate in any way from a
 recent XS 0.6? Could network problems explain part of the problem?

 jabber.sl.o is XS 0.5.2 stock install. It has 2GB of ram. Both xsdev and
 jabber.sl.o are virtual machines on the same network in the same rack.

 What did ejabberdctl connected-users say at the points when users were
 appearing/disappearing? Did ejabberd see them come and go? Or did it
 think they were connected all the time?

 connected-users reported the correct number, so when they were disconnecting
 and connectng, it was changing the reported number of connected-users.

 These are very basic questions -- when doing this testing, you'll want
 someone looking at the jabber server, dumping connected-users and
 asking the Sugar users to run `olpc-xos` to compare.


 We were using the Analyze activity to compare. On the 0.6 server it matched.
 I was watching the server and Analyze at te same time.

 In fact a time-series of captures of `olpc-xos` on each Sugar / XO
 client and  `ejabberd connected-users` on the XS, plus a verbose log
 from ejabberd would tell you a lot.

 olpc-xos command is not installed on SoaS. Maybe we can add that. Using
 analyze we can see the real-time connection but I don't see any way to
 capture the data historically.

 Dave

 cheers,



 m
 --
  martin.langh...@gmail.com
  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
  - ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] WatchMe-1, a VNC activity

Martin Langhoff wrote:
 Either way, this is going to be a nasty RF hog. How do we handle this 
 hogginess?

RealVNC's vncviewer seems to have a fairly smart adaptive congestion
control, stepping down the frequency of updates as available bandwidth
decreases.  It doesn't solve the problem, but it might allow things to
keep working without totally falling over.  I've also looked at reducing
the resolution, but haven't quite gotten client and server scaling in harmony.

  - can we use multicast frames... and get the APs speeds bumped up to
 do a fast multicast so as to not use up all the airtime?

This would be really cool... but what happens if you miss a packet? VNC
requires a reliable transport.  I haven't looked into the multicast VNC
implementations, so I don't know if they implement some sort of reliable
multicast.

An obvious alternative would be to use a video codec (e.g. Theora) and do
a live screencast.  Video streams have keyframes so they can resync after
lost packets.  I tried this on an XO, and it was a bit slow, but it did work.

  - if in the presence of an XS (with or without a reflector...) we can
 use a simple soft lock so that only one session runs at any given
 time?

I suppose this helps when combined with multicast.  With unicast VNC, it
doesn't really matter.

 However, it is worth noting that WatchMe would be
 impossible to implement as an activity in a more secure Sugar system.
 
 Ah, so won't run with Rainbow, right?

No, it runs fine with Rainbow.  I'm merely noting that in a hypothetical
complete Bitfrost, it would require a special privilege boost, because
otherwise it would not be able to see the pixels produced by Sugar and all
the other activities.



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Re: [Sugar-devel] Candidate paper cut bugs for a new 8.2.x release?

Generally agree that it is important... however.

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Richard A. Smithrich...@laptop.org wrote:
 You have to QA the whole system regardless of what change you make so really
 it doesn't increase the QA that much anyway.

No, and that is an explicit goal: keep the changes small and low risk
so that we can do QA focused on the very limited areas of the system
we touch.

As per the original email low low risk stuff. We have no QA team,
and I am not proposing that I will take on a huge task.

Surgery might be needed, and quite seriously; but at the moment I am
the man with the bandaids, offering to help with the papercuts.

cheers,



m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Deployment feedback braindump

2009/8/12 Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org:
 El Wed, 12-08-2009 a las 13:28 +0100, Lucian Branescu escribió:
 Adobe apparently loves vectors.

 And monopolies.

That too :) But really, they're obsessed with vectors.


 JavaScript-in-PDF is mostly a joke and a big security risk. It's not
 something to be relied upon.

 It might be useless, but I don't see why it should be more risky than
 Javascript in web browsers, which everybody happily accepted without
 much thought.  Is JS in PDF even allowed to make HTTP connections?


JavaScript in PDF is more risky because the sandboxing isn't as mature
as the one in web browsers. It should theoretically be at least as
safe, but in practice it isn't. This is mostly a problem with adobe's
implementation, which is an absolute train-wreck, but other
implementers without browser sandboxing experience might repeat some
mistakes.


 Forms are about as much interaction as PDF get without becoming
 dangerous or moot.

 How do you dubmit the form?  By HTTP?  Does the PDF reader tell the user
 when it's going to make this connection?

You would submit the form by sending back the completed PDF file. It's
a bit awkward, but it works.

Ideally, people should be using HTML forms, those are made to be
easily and seamlessly submitted.


 Knowing how proprietary software companies think, I wouldn't ever dare
 using Adobe Acrobat Reader.  But I blindly trust Evince, Okular and all
 free PDF readers to do whatever it takes to protect my security and
 privacy regardless of what the document or the PDF standard tells them
 to do.


In any case, PDF is a good presentation format. Why make it
significantly more complex for small-to-none improvements to its main
purpose?

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  \X/  Sugar Labs       - http://sugarlabs.org/



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Re: [Sugar-devel] How to not make a window?

Albert Cahalan wrote:
 Benjamin M. Schwartz writes:
 
 I am trying to create a sugar activity that wraps a
 simple X application.
 
 Have you tried using the sugarize code? If it fails,
 let me know how. You really shouldn't need Python to
 wrap a simple X application.

Good point.  I'd forgotten about sugarize, and I'll take another look at
it.  However, as noted in the original e-mail.  I'm trying to wrap a
simple application in a complicated way, using the presence service and
telepathy, so it's not as easy as a direct launch.

--Ben



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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?

Hi Simon,

On 12 Aug 2009, at 11:13, Simon Schampijer wrote:

 Hi,

 I just ported the hello world example to the new toolbar design [1].  
 I remember that once Gary pointed out, that simple activities will  
 look 'empty' when we move them to the new design (screenshot  
 attached), Chat would be a famous case. Most of the activities does  
 have options, though.

 How do we go forward with that? Live with that compromise? Other  
 ideas?

Thanks for the screenshot and bringing this up again. FWIW, it's not  
just looking 'empty' that is the issue. It's the fact that previously  
well designed simple activities with a single toolbar, now all have to  
get 2 toolbars for no good reason other than it makes the more  
complicated activities, a little simpler. All activities now also need  
to be able to deal with live resizing of their canvases, goodness  
knows what will be done with TamTamMini's packed layout (perhaps a  
full UI redesign moving some canvas button controls into the toolbar,  
ouch, a lot of work)!

I'll sit and stare at the HelloWorld toolbar screenshot, contemplating  
it's emptiness and the eternal void, perhaps I be enlightened, but I  
think this may be the price we have to pay for consistency in this  
design :-(

Regards,
--Gary
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Deployment feedback braindump

El Wed, 12-08-2009 a las 15:16 +0100, Lucian Branescu escribió:
 In any case, PDF is a good presentation format. Why make it
 significantly more complex for small-to-none improvements to its main
 purpose?

Agreed.

And, btw, as people are gradually loosing the habit of printing on
paper, document formats designed to paging and static layout will slowly
decline.

How much have you been using OpenOffice Write lately?  Or MS Word?  Or
even TeX?  Now compare this with email, wiki and HTML.

I think few people will care about PDF 10 years from now -- maybe just 5
years from now.  With or without Javascript ;-)

-- 
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 \X/  Sugar Labs   - http://sugarlabs.org/


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[Sugar-devel] Faster Multicast [was Re: WatchMe-1, a VNC activity]

Martin Langhoff wrote:
  - can we use multicast frames... and get the APs speeds bumped up to
 do a fast multicast so as to not use up all the airtime?

This would be great... and I just realized that it might also be
tremendously beneficial for Telepathy-Salut.

Salut uses multicast for two things: presence (mDNS) and D-Bus Tubes (a
homebrew network protocol called Clique).  mDNS is a classic
multicast/broadcast system, where if you miss a packet, you just have to
wait for the next round.  Clique, however, is a reliable multicast
system, guaranteeing in-order delivery, etc.  In other words, Clique can
tolerate some packet loss, because it knows how to request retransmission.

My understanding is that APs use the basic rate for multicast because they
presume it is an unreliable transport, and the basic rate is the least
likely to drop a packet.  However, for Clique, it might actually be more
effective to use the highest available rate, even if it causes occasional
retransmissions due to loss.

I don't know how to test this, but I think there's a chance it could be a
big win.  Of course, in situations where the mDNS presence information
itself is overloading the network, there's not much we can do.

--Ben



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Re: [Sugar-devel] Deployment feedback braindump

2009-08-12 Thread Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Bernie Innocentiber...@codewiz.org wrote:
 El Wed, 12-08-2009 a las 15:16 +0100, Lucian Branescu escribió:
 In any case, PDF is a good presentation format. Why make it
 significantly more complex for small-to-none improvements to its main
 purpose?

 Agreed.

 And, btw, as people are gradually loosing the habit of printing on
 paper, document formats designed to paging and static layout will slowly
 decline.

 How much have you been using OpenOffice Write lately?  Or MS Word?  Or
 even TeX?  Now compare this with email, wiki and HTML.

 I think few people will care about PDF 10 years from now -- maybe just 5
 years from now.  With or without Javascript ;-).

i wish i was so optimistic but  in some parts of the world the time
frame for this change could be higher than 10 years.





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Re: [Sugar-devel] Deployment feedback braindump

Hi Albert,

On 12 Aug 2009, at 12:22, Albert Cahalan wrote:

 S Page writes:
 On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Daniel Drakedsd at laptop.org  
 wrote:

 adding an interactivity component that would be impossible
 to have when working with paper-based exercise books.

 And impossible with PDFs.

 No way. PDFs can be interactive in many ways.

Absolutely. I have a point and click graphic (maths) adventure that  
works fine in Read (though I'd like Read to have a single page mode  
for better presentation). The adventure is not complete yet, otherwise  
I'd upload it as example content.

 First of all, a PDF is pretty much just well-behaved postscript.
 You can embed that in more postscript. The user can thus scribble
 all over the document.

 Second, the PDF format has long had form support. It's pretty much
 like HTML forms, but much more attractive. I've used this several
 times in xpdf and/or evince, and it works very well. You get the
 choice of filling out the PDF form directly, or doing things the
 traditional way on paper.

FWIW, I've not tested PDF form support in evince, but a quick google  
some seem to suggest it's supported.

 Finally, you can put JavaScript in a PDF. I'm not sure if any of
 the free software viewers can handle this yet.

I've tested a range of JavaScript PDF examples in Read but with no  
luck (was hoping to use it to auto generate math quiz like questions  
for the adventure). So currently the best you can do in PDF seems to  
be to allow point and click to jump about a document in a non-linear  
way – still, that alone can be pretty engaging if you put your mind to  
it.

Regards,
--Gary

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?

2009-08-12 Thread Eben Eliason

I would be willing to set some time aside for that. Early mornings are
best for me.

Eben

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Christian Marc
Schmidtchristianm...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, I agree. Unless everyone is on the same page, it may make sense to
schedule a meeting this weekend, also to go over proposals for list view in
Neighborhood and to discuss groups. What does everyone think?

Christian

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Eben Eliason eben.elia...@gmail.com
wrote:

I recall coming to the same conclusion with Christian as well.

Eben

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Lucian
Branesculucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote:
Would it be possible to offer a more compact design, with a single
bar, but with the new API?

2009/8/12 Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de:
Hi,

How do we go forward with that? Live with that compromise? Other ideas?

Thanks,
Simon

[1]

http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/hello-world/repos/mainline/blobs/master/activity.py#line36

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http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com

917/ 575 0013

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Deployment feedback braindump

El Wed, 12-08-2009 a las 09:52 -0500, Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero
escribió:
 I think few people will care about PDF 10 years from now -- maybe
 just 5 years from now.  With or without Javascript ;-).

 i wish i was so optimistic but  in some parts of the world the time
 frame for this change could be higher than 10 years.

Surely you mean rich countries where people can afford to waste paper
and ink like there's no tomorrow! ;-)

Jokes apart, there are intermediate technologies that just get skipped
in developing countries.  For examples, Nepal is jumping from analogue
phones to ADSL without going through the ISDN nonsense that plagued
Europe for many years.

Will developing countries be lucky enough to skip MS Word and PDF too
and go directly to HTML and Wiki?

-- 
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 \X/  Sugar Labs   - http://sugarlabs.org/


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Interactive Ebooks [Re: Deployment feedback braindump]

2009-08-12 Thread Samuel Klein

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Sayamindu Dasguptasayami...@gmail.com wrote:

 First of all, a PDF is pretty much just well-behaved postscript.
 You can embed that in more postscript. The user can thus scribble
 all over the document.


 In this context, I have been playing around with Read + Epub - and I
 have posted a short, unstructured dump of my thoughts at
 http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings/2009/08/12/braindump-on-ebooks/

 Some screencasts:

 ** http://dev.laptop.org/~sayamindu/interactive_books_video/video.ogv
 - shows that a video clip can be embedded in a book readable by Read

 ** http://dev.laptop.org/~sayamindu/interactive_books_video/python.ogv
 - shows that a python shell can be embedded in a book readable by Read

 ** http://dev.laptop.org/~sayamindu/interactive_books_video/digital_logic.ogv
 - shows that a etoys simulation can be embedded in a book readable by Read

 I have also started to experiment with ebooks as exercise books -
 HTML5 local storage looks promising, and with some magic at the school
 server end, we might be able to get something done. I'll resume my
 experiments during the weekends, and will post updates when I have
 some progress.
 Of course - none of this is _standard_ epub, and I'll try to figure
 out where I can get information about planned updates to the Epub
 spec, and if this type of use-case can be accommodated into the next
 version.

This is very, very cool.  So cool, in fact, that your paper crown is
in the mail:
   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Pretty_Pretty_Princess

SJ
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?

On 08/12/2009 03:15 PM, Eben Eliason wrote:
 Last we discussed this, I think we decided that activities which don't
 modify the toolbars in any way should have a single toolbar containing
 all of the activity toolbar controls: title entry, sharing, keep, etc.
 Only if the activity wanted to modify the toolbars would the activity
 specific stuff be moved under a toolbar button.

 I recall coming to the same conclusion with Christian as well.

 Eben

Ok. I was mostly worried about visual consistency. And if we add an 
option for tagging and for adding a description to the activity 
subtoolbar I hope it will still all fit on one bar - but should be.

Regards,
Simon
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?

On 08/12/2009 04:34 PM, Gary C Martin wrote:
 Hi Simon,

 On 12 Aug 2009, at 11:13, Simon Schampijer wrote:

 Hi,

 I just ported the hello world example to the new toolbar design [1]. I
 remember that once Gary pointed out, that simple activities will look
 'empty' when we move them to the new design (screenshot attached),
 Chat would be a famous case. Most of the activities does have options,
 though.

 How do we go forward with that? Live with that compromise? Other ideas?

 Thanks for the screenshot and bringing this up again. FWIW, it's not
 just looking 'empty' that is the issue. It's the fact that previously
 well designed simple activities with a single toolbar, now all have to
 get 2 toolbars for no good reason other than it makes the more
 complicated activities, a little simpler. All activities now also need
 to be able to deal with live resizing of their canvases, goodness knows
 what will be done with TamTamMini's packed layout (perhaps a full UI
 redesign moving some canvas button controls into the toolbar, ouch, a
 lot of work)!

 I'll sit and stare at the HelloWorld toolbar screenshot, contemplating
 it's emptiness and the eternal void, perhaps I be enlightened, but I
 think this may be the price we have to pay for consistency in this
 design :-(

 Regards,
 --Gary


Hey Gary - did you see Eben's comment? Would you prefer to that we go 
down that road? We are still open for discussions :)

Heads up,
Simon
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?

On 08/12/2009 03:24 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt wrote:
 Yes, I agree. Unless everyone is on the same page, it may make sense to
 schedule a meeting this weekend, also to go over proposals for list view in
 Neighborhood and to discuss groups. What does everyone think?


 Christian

We need quite some design team feedback for the upcoming 0.86 release. 
Next thursday is feature freeze 
(http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Roadmap#Schedule) - so design changes 
are hard to make after that date.

This is the current feature list: 
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Feature_List

I am sure we have a lot of smaller and bigger things the developers 
would need design people involved. If we could focus in this weekend on 
those items - that would be awesome.

I am not available on Saturday - but have time on Sunday. I would be 
willing to get a list of items together as well, for those features, 
where we have questions.

Thanks,
Simon
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Re: [Sugar-devel] New Activities on a.sl.o was Sugar Digest 2009-08-11

2009-08-12 Thread Gonzalo Odiard

Yes, the next week.
Gonzalo

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Caroline Meeks solutiongr...@gmail.comwrote:


 ===In the community===

 3. Gonzalo Odiard reported on a successful
 [http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/olpc-sur/2009-August/004099.html
 Sugar Day Argentina on the Sur list.] Gonzalo also describes three new
 activities: [http://190.0.162.1/godiard/sugar/Domino/6/Domino.xo], a
 game where the pieces may have different mathematical operations or
 concepts which need to match;
 [http://190.0.162.1/godiard/sugar/Ecomundo.xo], an ecosystem in which
 there is grass, rabbits and foxes that are born, eat, reproduce and
 die; and [http://190.0.162.1/godiard/sugar/Elements/2/Elements.xo], a
 proof-pof-concept of a Javascript activity.


 Will these be going onto activities.sugarlabs.org?



 ===Sugar Labs===

 4. Gary Martin has generated a SOM from the past week of discussion on
 the IAEP mailing list (Please see [[:File:2009-August-1-7-som.jpg]]).
 Gary has made a number of modifications to his algorithm. Please give
 him feedback as well.

 -walter
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 Solution Grove
 carol...@solutiongrove.com

 617-500-3488 - Office
 505-213-3268 - Fax

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Sistemas Australes
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?

Hi Somon,

On 12 Aug 2009, at 16:52, Simon Schampijer wrote:

 On 08/12/2009 04:34 PM, Gary C Martin wrote:

 I'll sit and stare at the HelloWorld toolbar screenshot,  
 contemplating
 it's emptiness and the eternal void, perhaps I be enlightened, but I
 think this may be the price we have to pay for consistency in this
 design :-(

 Hey Gary - did you see Eben's comment?

Yea.

 Would you prefer to that we go down that road? We are still open for  
 discussions :)

Yea we could... though toolbar consistency goes right out the window  
(as you already pointed out). The only thing we have that will be  
consistent when a kid looks at the top of the screen will be the  
Stop button! :-) Everything else will potentially look different,  
move about from activity to activity.

To help visual consistency, I was even thinking the dreadful,  
scandalous thought that for the minimal 1 toolbar case (if 'title',  
'share', and 'keep' move into the primary toolbar) that we keep the  
colored Activity icon in the far left (but with no down arrow, and no  
palette), basically just an icon with no function other than visual  
consistency as an Activity. E...

Right now (and I'm still contemplating the void), I'm trying to  
convince myself that the design (as per your screenshot) has enough  
positive features worth keeping just as it is:

1) All activity toolbars would, at least, be consistent (activity icon  
on left is a strong element).
2) Kids will not be distracted by title, sharing, or that blasted  
'Keep' miss-feature (that should be take out back and shot). Most of  
the time they won't go near this palette.

 Heads up,

/me ducks behind a sand bag.

Regards,
--Gary

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[Sugar-devel] Meeting

2009-08-12 Thread usmpadow padow

Hi, I was invited to participate on a meeting by  tomeu from the #sugar
chatroom...  He said it would be this weekend, I would like to participate,
but I live in a very different timezone, I do stay up late though...

what time, what day will the meeting be? I'll see if I can participate.

By the way, just in case I cant participate, I was thinking that the UI in a
bit confusig.
it is confusing to have the icons change from black and white to color...  I
automatically thaught that ment It is running and then how do I stop it?

Keep up the good work!
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11

2009-08-12 Thread Sean DALY

IMHO, close study of small deployments makes them incredibly useful to
all teachers and Learners. The observations and take-aways need to be
triaged of course, starting with what can/should be done by Sugar
Labs, but I am convinced many learnings will benefit large
deployments. Until reliable means of sharing experiences and feedback
(polls, questionnaires, council of deployers, etc.) can be put in
place, microscopic study of a classroom using Sugar is well worth the
effort, in particular for revealing blockers.

Sean.


On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Walter Benderwalter.ben...@gmail.com wrote:
 === Sugar Digest ===

 1. Daniel Drake started a deployment-centric thread
 [http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-August/007651.html]
 about Sugar's direction and goals and the role that Sugar Labs should
 be playing. Much of the discussion is a rehash of issues we have been
 discussing since we began Sugar Labs one-year ago: how best should we
 engage deployments and how best to allocate our limited resources. And
 while it would be easy to simply refer to the list archives, it is
 better to revisit the discussion because (1) we (and the Sugar
 deployments) are in a very different place than we were a year ago;
 and (2) there is some apparent confusion regarding roles and goals for
 the Sugar Labs community.

 What has changed? (1) we have demonstrated an adherence to a set of
 core values that embrace freedom and openness; (2) we are to a large
 extend hardware and distribution agnostic; (3) we are much farther
 along the path towards a stable 1.0 release; (4) we have participation
 from a much broader community, which includes many (vocal) teachers.

 What has remained the same? (1) we still have inadequate feedback from
 the field; (2) we have no funds to dedicate to remedying (1); (3) we
 have more iterations on our design to go before it reaches maturity;
 and (4) we have insufficient materials for teachers to help them
 through these immature stages of our design.

 One topic raised by Daniel is the role Sugar Labs should play in the
 existing OLPC/Sugar deployments. These deployments represent the vast
 majority of Sugar users. But there is a real disconnection between
 these deployments and the Sugar Labs developer community. (IMHO, this
 disconnect is not unique to Sugar.) Daniel recommends that we send
 developers into the field, which sounds great, but has some practical
 implications as well: it takes time and money. Alas, so far I have
 been unsuccessful in raising money for building such bridges—my
 biggest personal disappointment over the past 12 months—but I plan to
 keep trying. I will put some of the onus on the deployments as well.
 While some have invited in developers from the community, others are
 not yet to the point where they see this as a priority. I sense a
 change, but it is going to take time. Perhaps if we draw more
 attention to efforts such as Paraguay Educa, which is very active in
 directly discussing issues with the broader community, then others
 will follow their example. I remain of the opinion that in order to
 scale, community engagement has to be a pull from the deployments as
 oppose to a push from Sugar Labs (or OLPC). Of course, we need to be
 responsive to the pull—I think we have a good track record in that
 regard. And our being more aggressive (pushy) may help as a catalyst.

 In a related topic, it was questioned the degree to which we should be
 investing energy into small deployments, e.g., the Sugar-on-a-Stick
 pilot that Caroline Meeks and I had been running this summer. Should
 we be exclusively concentrating on the large deployments? Obviously, I
 am personally invested in supporting small deployments because I am of
 the belief that we will be able to grow our community and user base
 more robustly by opening Sugar up to anyone who wants to use it,
 regardless of the scale of their efforts. My engagement in small
 deployments has been primarily in order to focus on discovering the
 various aspects of the current workflows that impede adoption in a
 classroom scenario. Caroline has been focusing on those aspects of
 workflow specific to Sugar on a Stick. Greg Smith has been doing a
 great of job of documenting our trials. And as Dennis Daniels has
 pointed out, we need to have more tutorial-like resources available to
 teachers if we want more than the most patient to try it. These many
 small efforts will pay off in the long term and much of what we have
 learned this summer will impact the large deployments as well.

 Another topic was in regard to the degree to which Sugar Labs should
 be doing OS work. We are an upstream project and we are getting more
 proficient at working with downstream efforts: the Fedora community
 (which has taken on much of the heavy lifting associated with
 supporting the OLPC hardware); the Debian community (thanks to the
 patient tutelage of Jonas Smedegaard); openSUSE, etc. At the same
 time, we need to take a

Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?

2009-08-12 Thread Walter Bender

A rude hack for simple activities (See attached).


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Faster Multicast [was Re: WatchMe-1, a VNC activity]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Benjamin M.
Schwartzbmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
 I don't know how to test this, but I think there's a chance it could be a
 big win.  Of course, in situations where the mDNS presence information
 itself is overloading the network, there's not much we can do.

Get your hands on airtime.py -- and let's make sure everyone
understands that in wireless networks

   what really matters is _airtime_. Multicast frames are sent in the slowest
   modulation available, and it consumes a ton of airtime. It doesn't take
   much to swamp the RF.

cheers,


m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?

2009-08-12 Thread Christian Marc Schmidt

Great--should we plan on holding a design meeting this Sunday? I can be
available after 10am EST (2pm UTC).


Christian

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.dewrote:

 On 08/12/2009 03:24 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt wrote:

 Yes, I agree. Unless everyone is on the same page, it may make sense to
 schedule a meeting this weekend, also to go over proposals for list view
 in
 Neighborhood and to discuss groups. What does everyone think?


 Christian


 We need quite some design team feedback for the upcoming 0.86 release. Next
 thursday is feature freeze (
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Roadmap#Schedule) - so design changes
 are hard to make after that date.

 This is the current feature list:
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Feature_List

 I am sure we have a lot of smaller and bigger things the developers would
 need design people involved. If we could focus in this weekend on those
 items - that would be awesome.

 I am not available on Saturday - but have time on Sunday. I would be
 willing to get a list of items together as well, for those features, where
 we have questions.

 Thanks,
   Simon




-- 
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http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com

917/ 575 0013
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[Sugar-devel] Bundling libraries, RPMs? (was Re: WatchMe-1, a VNC activity)

2009-08-12 Thread Brian Jordan


On Aug 12, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu 
  wrote:

 Indeed.  The #1 thing to do, IMHO, is to get rid of the yum install
 requirement.  In the short term, the only way to do that is to bundle
 gtk-vnc and gtk-vnc-python into the .xo, which is fine... I'm just not
 quite sure how to do it.

If someone does know how to do this sort of thing, a quick how-to  
writeup would be immensely useful!


Brian
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Bundling libraries, RPMs? (was Re: WatchMe-1, a VNC activity)

Brian Jordan wrote:
 
 On Aug 12, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz
 bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
 
 Indeed.  The #1 thing to do, IMHO, is to get rid of the yum install
 requirement.  In the short term, the only way to do that is to bundle
 gtk-vnc and gtk-vnc-python into the .xo, which is fine... I'm just not
 quite sure how to do it.
 
 If someone does know how to do this sort of thing, a quick how-to
 writeup would be immensely useful!

I've previously started with the Fedora 9 RPMs, used cpio to extract them
inside the bundle, and then done a whole lot of path-munging to wire
things up. I'm a little bit hesitant to do that now, though, as I worry
that it may introduce library version dependencies that render the
resulting bundle totally unportable.  Another thing I may try is building
static binaries directly from upstream source tarballs.  Anyway, I'll try
to document the result.



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Re: [Sugar-devel] Faster Multicast [was Re: WatchMe-1, a VNC activity]

2009-08-12 Thread david


On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Martin Langhoff wrote:


On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Benjamin M.
Schwartzbmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:

I don't know how to test this, but I think there's a chance it could be a
big win.  Of course, in situations where the mDNS presence information
itself is overloading the network, there's not much we can do.


Get your hands on airtime.py -- and let's make sure everyone
understands that in wireless networks

  what really matters is _airtime_. Multicast frames are sent in the slowest
  modulation available, and it consumes a ton of airtime. It doesn't take
  much to swamp the RF.


I believe that the slowest modulation available is 1Mb/sec. so you would 
have to avoid something in the range of 30+ packets being sent before you 
have a chance of hitting break-even


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Re: [Sugar-devel] How to not make a window?

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Benjamin M.
Schwartzbmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
 Albert Cahalan wrote:
 Benjamin M. Schwartz writes:

 I am trying to create a sugar activity that wraps a
 simple X application.

 Have you tried using the sugarize code? If it fails,
 let me know how. You really shouldn't need Python to
 wrap a simple X application.

 Good point.  I'd forgotten about sugarize, and I'll take another look at
 it.  However, as noted in the original e-mail.  I'm trying to wrap a
 simple application in a complicated way, using the presence service and
 telepathy, so it's not as easy as a direct launch.

Let's consider it a bug that this requires any extra effort.

Can somebody fix Sugar? Can I add another hack to sugarize?
(ideally Sugar would not need anything abnormal)
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Re: [Sugar-devel] How to not make a window?

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 19:42, Albert Cahalanacaha...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Benjamin M.
 Schwartzbmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
 Albert Cahalan wrote:
 Benjamin M. Schwartz writes:

 I am trying to create a sugar activity that wraps a
 simple X application.

 Have you tried using the sugarize code? If it fails,
 let me know how. You really shouldn't need Python to
 wrap a simple X application.

 Good point.  I'd forgotten about sugarize, and I'll take another look at
 it.  However, as noted in the original e-mail.  I'm trying to wrap a
 simple application in a complicated way, using the presence service and
 telepathy, so it's not as easy as a direct launch.

 Let's consider it a bug that this requires any extra effort.

 Can somebody fix Sugar? Can I add another hack to sugarize?
 (ideally Sugar would not need anything abnormal)

Feel free to enter a ticket and propose alternatives.

Regards,

Tomeu

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Deployment feedback braindump

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Lucian
Branesculucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote:
 2009/8/12 Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org:
 El Wed, 12-08-2009 a las 13:28 +0100, Lucian Branescu escribió:

 JavaScript-in-PDF is mostly a joke and a big security risk. It's not
 something to be relied upon.

 It might be useless, but I don't see why it should be more risky than
 Javascript in web browsers, which everybody happily accepted without
 much thought.  Is JS in PDF even allowed to make HTTP connections?

 JavaScript in PDF is more risky because the sandboxing isn't as mature
 as the one in web browsers. It should theoretically be at least as
 safe, but in practice it isn't. This is mostly a problem with adobe's
 implementation, which is an absolute train-wreck, but other
 implementers without browser sandboxing experience might repeat some
 mistakes.

Anybody sane would just grab a mature engine from a browser.

The recent supposed JavaScript problems in Acrobat are nothing
more than heap spraying; there are at least two non-JavaScript ways
to do that. The exploit was recently redone w/o any JavaScript.

Note that PDF, being essentially postscript, already comes with
a full programming language. That's what postscript **is**.

 How do you dubmit the form?  By HTTP?  Does the PDF reader tell the user
 when it's going to make this connection?

 You would submit the form by sending back the completed PDF file. It's
 a bit awkward, but it works.

 Ideally, people should be using HTML forms, those are made to be
 easily and seamlessly submitted.
...
 In any case, PDF is a good presentation format. Why make it
 significantly more complex for small-to-none improvements to its main
 purpose?

PDF forms often look attractive. HTML forms normally look ugly.
This is because PDF is a good presentation format. HTML is not.

Printing a PDF form to fill it out the old-fashioned way is reasonable.
You can even fill most of it out, print it, and then sign it or stamp it.
With HTML this really isn't practical.

In the case of math worksheets, the child really needs a way to
scribble on the document. This is for handwriting practice and to
allow arbitrary free-form drawing and layout. PDF can provide this,
either via printing or via wrapping extra postscript code around the
document. To do this in HTML you'd have to write a custom app
in JavaScript, Java, or flash -- none of which is really HTML at all.
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[Sugar-devel] discovering open clip art library

2009-08-12 Thread Bryan Berry

I am embarrassed to say that I wasn't aware that the Open ClipArt
Library existed. 

I imagine they have similar goals and needs for a content management
system if theirs doesn't already satisfy them.

http://www.openclipart.org

http://www.openclipart.org/wiki/Document_Management_System
-- 
Bryan W. Berry
Technology Director
OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Deployment feedback braindump

2009/8/12 Albert Cahalan acaha...@gmail.com:
 On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Lucian
 Branesculucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote:
 2009/8/12 Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org:
 El Wed, 12-08-2009 a las 13:28 +0100, Lucian Branescu escribió:

 JavaScript-in-PDF is mostly a joke and a big security risk. It's not
 something to be relied upon.

 It might be useless, but I don't see why it should be more risky than
 Javascript in web browsers, which everybody happily accepted without
 much thought.  Is JS in PDF even allowed to make HTTP connections?

 JavaScript in PDF is more risky because the sandboxing isn't as mature
 as the one in web browsers. It should theoretically be at least as
 safe, but in practice it isn't. This is mostly a problem with adobe's
 implementation, which is an absolute train-wreck, but other
 implementers without browser sandboxing experience might repeat some
 mistakes.

 Anybody sane would just grab a mature engine from a browser.

 The recent supposed JavaScript problems in Acrobat are nothing
 more than heap spraying; there are at least two non-JavaScript ways
 to do that. The exploit was recently redone w/o any JavaScript.

 Note that PDF, being essentially postscript, already comes with
 a full programming language. That's what postscript **is**.

So what's the point of JavaScript in PDFs then?


 How do you dubmit the form?  By HTTP?  Does the PDF reader tell the user
 when it's going to make this connection?

 You would submit the form by sending back the completed PDF file. It's
 a bit awkward, but it works.

 Ideally, people should be using HTML forms, those are made to be
 easily and seamlessly submitted.
 ...
 In any case, PDF is a good presentation format. Why make it
 significantly more complex for small-to-none improvements to its main
 purpose?

 PDF forms often look attractive. HTML forms normally look ugly.
 This is because PDF is a good presentation format. HTML is not.


This of course depends on your browser. I think HTML forms look great,
but that's because I use OS X or KDE.

 Printing a PDF form to fill it out the old-fashioned way is reasonable.
 You can even fill most of it out, print it, and then sign it or stamp it.
 With HTML this really isn't practical.

You can do it with HTML and it would be perfectly practical if there
were a format based on a HTML subset that specified printable forms.
That would be moot though, since PDF is much better at printables
already.


 In the case of math worksheets, the child really needs a way to
 scribble on the document. This is for handwriting practice and to
 allow arbitrary free-form drawing and layout. PDF can provide this,
 either via printing or via wrapping extra postscript code around the
 document. To do this in HTML you'd have to write a custom app
 in JavaScript, Java, or flash -- none of which is really HTML at all.


You could indeed do it on PDF only, like Okular and Preview (OS X) can
annotate PDFs. But you could do it with HTML  JS, with the html5
canvas (JS is HTML's native programming language, equivalent to PS).
The drawback to the second is, as with printing, that HTML is very
general. An easily printable subset of HTML would be needed for this.


I believe JavaScript in PDF to be useless bloat. PostScript should be
enough for all PDF needs. If it isn't, then PDF is probably the wrong
format to use.
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[Sugar-devel] Wed Jabber Testing

2009-08-12 Thread Caroline Meeks

I had quite limited time to test today but here is what we did.
I will call the two jabber servers XS1 and XS2.

XS1 responded to jabber.sugarlabs.org for the last few months.  It had over
2000 jabber users.

XS2 was created a few weeks ago and had barely been used. It also has Gadget
installed.

On Tuesday XS2 worked fine with 8 users we set up in Cambridge. XS1 had all
sorts of flackiness with the same 8 sticks and computers plus another 20 or
so who happened to be on from varies Sugarlands.  CPU on XS1 was around
100%.

Tuesday night we switch the DNS so that jabber.sugarlabs.org went to XS2.

Weds we had about 3 computers from cambridge plus about a dozen from
elsewhere.  It seemed ok and no large CPU usage.  Dave B noted that the
server always seemed to say it had 3 or 4 more people then he saw.  On Weds
we ran into an annoying bug where some of the sticks would not connect to
Jabber.  Ticket 1166.

Dave also forgot to reconfigure Gadget so for part of the day XS2 was
running without Gadget.

Dave has wiped the XS1 database and we are going to switch the DNS for
jabber.sugarlabs.org back to XS1.  We will test tomorrow whether it works
better then it did on Tuesday.

Tomorrow, if we get access to a computer lab I will also reburn the sticks
and see if I can replicate the problems we had on Ticket 1166 with sticks
that we know are absolutely all the same.

-- 
Caroline Meeks
Solution Grove
carol...@solutiongrove.com

617-500-3488 - Office
505-213-3268 - Fax
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[Sugar-devel] sunjammer: server relocation, Aug 12, 21:30 EDT

The FSF sysadmins are going to relocate our virtual machine Sunjammer
today in the evening.

The new host has faster processors, twice as much memory, a faster RAID1
array and generally better hardware.  The downtime is projected to last
15-30 minutes, but it may last longer in case of unexpected issues.

Apologies for any inconvenience,

-- 
   // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/
 \X/  Sugar Labs   - http://sugarlabs.org/


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[Sugar-devel] Outage notifications via identi.ca

To receive notifications for scheduled maintenance to our servers and
other service outages, you can get an account at identi.ca and subscribe
to this group:

  http://identi.ca/group/sugarlabsstatus/

It's supposed to be a very low-traffic channel, to be used only by
humans to communicate critical status changes.  It should be safe to
forward it to your mobile phone by SMS.  Identi.ca also supports
notifications via Jabber, and we're also forwarding them to our IRC
channel #sugar, courtesy of fsfsysbot.

If you are an administrator on one of the *.sugarlabs.org systems,
please remember to notify !sugarlabsstatus in advance before taking down
a public-facing service.

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 \X/  Sugar Labs   - http://sugarlabs.org/


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[Sugar-devel] List moderation, or lack thereof