Re: [Sugar-devel] IMPORTANT: sugar-jhbuild: upstream jhbuild migrated to new location
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 12:56:50AM -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: I get to log in, but Sugar doesn't come up. Which logs would you like to see? ~/.sugar/default/logs/shell.log for a start. IIRC, you're starting sugar as a new X session (instead of using sugar-emulator inside a running session), so ~/.xsession-errors might be useful, as well. CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Notes on service discovery XS/XO
(Cross posted to the Sugar list, I am hoping to discuss this stuff with the Sugar folks in Paris as well.) I've reviewed the XS 0.6 / 0.7 development plans, and one area that I have to address is service discovery: how does an XO figure out cheaply (in network RF terms) what services are available on this network. More importantly, how do 5K XOs in a crowded school (and crowded RF) accomplish the same with minimal network use? When ths issue was mentioned in the past there were some suggestions of mdns/dns-sd. Last week I worked my way through the specs, avahi docs and any information I could find of mdns/dns-sd in server-centric and crowded wireless environments. The short of it is that mdns/dns-sd make sense for a small, underutilised network of peers. They assume that the network is a cheap resource, that broadcast messages are cheap, and that there is no coordinating server. Square peg, meet roundness. So my plan (targetting 0.7-ish, perhaps 0.6) is to use old, unexciting, tried-and-true DNS. Oh the horror, I am so uncool, I don't have a twitter channel either :-) My plan looks as follows ... On the XS side: - The XS serves DNS names for services -- so we will continue expanding the list of services. I'll put together a wikipage with the domain names associated to each service. - DNS allows the server to additional data to clients on a request, data that the server things that the client will need soon. If possible, I'd like to configure whatever DNS server we use to proactively feed the whole list of local names, with long TTLs, to the clients when they ask about 'schoolserver'. If you know how to configure BIND, dnsmasq or djbdns (tinydns) to do this, I'm all ears. - The XS will publish a CJSON-encoded (and perhaps SSH-cert-signed) list of services and protocol versions offered at http://schoolserver/services - the server-side implementation will appropriate http cache-headers, so for smart http client that knows how to say if-modified-since or Etag can save significant traffic. On the XO side: - On the NM ifup hook (which triggers when we associate to a new network), if the network looks like the network we registered on (the DNS search path matches the base domain of the schoolserver it is registered against) then request http://schoolserver/services - The service list retrieved can be checked cheaply via a local cli tool and/or a Sugar library call. This cli / Sugar library call also answers cheaply are we in an XS network? question. - Tools can completely ignore these sugar/xo specific things and just perform a dns lookup for the servicename, if it fails, the service isn't offered :-) This is less network efficient but it is a valid behaviour, and accepted for compatibility. Any tools that we expect to be in use in dense environments should avoid these pointless lookups, perhaps by using a wrapper that performs the local (cheap) checks. - For under a tree or home use scenarios, dns-sd/mdns are fantastic. Unfortunately, in dense wireless scenarios they cause a complete meltdown, so we want to ensure that XO/SoaS builds avoid, stop and kill kill kill! any mdns/dns-sd activity when there's a School Server. If you've read this far - congrats! - this is all very wordy, but it boils down to: - I'll use good old DNS plus an HTTP-served cheat-sheet. This keeps the chatter down. - Using the cheat-sheet, the XO/SoaS client side tools can know easily and cheaply whether they are in an XS network and what services are offered. and it's not that much work. But it is a key point on how we structure the XO-XS interactions. Comments? Suggestions? Hands ready to help implement? cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Notes on service discovery XS/XO
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martin Langhoff wrote: The short of it is that mdns/dns-sd make sense for a small, underutilised network of peers. They assume that the network is a cheap resource, that broadcast messages are cheap, and that there is no coordinating server. mDNS assumes all of the above things. DNS-SD does not. DNS-SD is perfectly happy to work on a standard DNS server. From the spec This document proposes no change to the structure of DNS messages, and no new operation codes, response codes, resource record types, or any other new DNS protocol values. This document simply specifies a convention for how existing resource record types can be named and structured to facilitate service discovery. (http://files.dns-sd.org/draft-cheshire-dnsext-dns-sd.txt) I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the XS service discovery requirements, nor about DNS, so I can't reasonably tell you to use DNS-SD. What I can say is that it seems like it should be workable. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.10 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknsW+UACgkQUJT6e6HFtqSx5QCglzpN+96F9aTAH05KnsQszg3E vy4An0lCtq/z04OKiFVvv5TvXUcNnkZ5 =TRBq -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Problems with soas
Given Mitch's advice, I would recommend trying a factory-fresh 1-2G stick and not formatting at all. -walter On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 3:14 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: [cc'ing to sugar-devel] On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 01:51, Aaron Konstam akons...@sbcglobal.net wrote: What is wrong? Does the usb stick have to be formatted ext2, for example or can it be NTFS? I think it can be either FAT or ext2, but I guess the safest bet is making it FAT16. Others more knowledgeable may be able to comment. Regards, Tomeu ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Notes on service discovery XS/XO
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 07:26:30AM -0400, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: Martin Langhoff wrote: The short of it is that mdns/dns-sd make sense for a small, underutilised network of peers. They assume that the network is a cheap resource, that broadcast messages are cheap, and that there is no coordinating server. mDNS assumes all of the above things. DNS-SD does not. DNS-SD is perfectly happy to work on a standard DNS server. From the spec This document proposes no change to the structure of DNS messages, and no new operation codes, response codes, resource record types, or any other new DNS protocol values. This document simply specifies a convention for how existing resource record types can be named and structured to facilitate service discovery. (http://files.dns-sd.org/draft-cheshire-dnsext-dns-sd.txt) I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the XS service discovery requirements, nor about DNS, so I can't reasonably tell you to use DNS-SD. What I can say is that it seems like it should be workable. DNS-SD using unicast DNS seems reasonable to me too. Looking closer at the RFC, the initial service queries do have an added overhead in that a layer of indirection is used (not SRV - A, but instead PTR - SRV + TXT - A). But standard DNS optimizations apply, so SOA record should allow clients to preserve bandwidth through caching. In other words: Install dnsmasq on the XOs, use plain standard DNS internally and on the wire, setup DNS-SD entries in a standard nameserver on the XS, and extend Sugar to support DNS-SD. I'd be happy to help compose standard BIND9 files, if that is what will be used on the XS. - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknsflUACgkQn7DbMsAkQLiL2wCfV/HuaLPQ0kv/mvYH4fdImsIs ookAnAu5ir3uxxKNjCdTwu4gfNxdE4hZ =7Jde -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Notes on service discovery XS/XO
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: DNS-SD using unicast DNS seems reasonable to me too. If we can do without the avahi gunk, and use it in a way that is not optimised for user driven browsing but for automated selection of services, then it might work. Looking closer at the RFC, the initial service queries do have an added overhead in that a layer of indirection is used (not SRV - A, but instead PTR - SRV + TXT - A). But standard DNS optimizations apply, so SOA record should allow clients to preserve bandwidth through caching. Can we teach dnsmasq to push all the relevant records with the SOA record? In other words: Install dnsmasq on the XOs, use plain standard DNS internally and on the wire, setup DNS-SD entries in a standard nameserver on the XS, and extend Sugar to support DNS-SD. I'd be happy to help compose standard BIND9 files, if that is what will be used on the XS. If we have a dnsmasq resident expert, I rather use your help transitioning to dnsmasq (note - with several bits of weird dhcp rules). There is no upside to BIND and plenty of downsides, starting with the 25MB memory footprint. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Notes on service discovery XS/XO
martin wrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: DNS-SD using unicast DNS seems reasonable to me too. If we can do without the avahi gunk, and use it in a way that is not optimised for user driven browsing but for automated selection of services, then it might work. Looking closer at the RFC, the initial service queries do have an added overhead in that a layer of indirection is used (not SRV - A, but instead PTR - SRV + TXT - A). But standard DNS optimizations apply, so SOA record should allow clients to preserve bandwidth through caching. Can we teach dnsmasq to push all the relevant records with the SOA record? In other words: Install dnsmasq on the XOs, use plain standard DNS internally and on the wire, setup DNS-SD entries in a standard nameserver on the XS, and extend Sugar to support DNS-SD. I'd be happy to help compose standard BIND9 files, if that is what will be used on the XS. If we have a dnsmasq resident expert, I rather use your help transitioning to dnsmasq (note - with several bits of weird dhcp rules). There is no upside to BIND and plenty of downsides, starting with the 25MB memory footprint. i'm a big fan of dnsmasq, but be sure it will fulfill all your needs before doing too much work on it -- it's not quite a full-fledged DNS server -- as an example, dnsmasq doesn't support CNAME: http://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2006q1/000583.html - ask interesting questions simon kelley (dnsmasq author) is extremely helpful on the dnsmasq list, btw, so it shouldn't be too hard to get interesting answers, as well. :-) paul =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Server-devel] Fwd: testing backup and restore on SoaS
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Dave Bauer dave.ba...@gmail.com wrote: Forwarded from sugar-devel, Are the backup scripts available? We have a script that allows us to register SoaS and we want to try the backup scripts with that. Grab them from the same place where you found the ejabberd pkg ;-) -- you're looking for ds-backup-client. Note that you'll need to get in motion to teach SoaS about registering to the School Server, something that Sugar knows how to do, or used to know.. Give the scripts a read so you'll see how they work, and what bits of Sugar we need (somehow, sugar profile needs to know about a backup server, etc). cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Server-devel] Fwd: testing backup and restore on SoaS
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Dave Bauer dave.ba...@gmail.com wrote: Forwarded from sugar-devel, Are the backup scripts available? We have a script that allows us to register SoaS and we want to try the backup scripts with that. Grab them from the same place where you found the ejabberd pkg ;-) -- you're looking for ds-backup-client. Hmmm, I got the ejabberd from olpcxs-testing repository. I don't see ds-backup-client there. I guess I am looking in the wrong place. Dave Note that you'll need to get in motion to teach SoaS about registering to the School Server, something that Sugar knows how to do, or used to know.. Give the scripts a read so you'll see how they work, and what bits of Sugar we need (somehow, sugar profile needs to know about a backup server, etc). cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff -- Dave Bauer d...@solutiongrove.com http://www.solutiongrove.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Feedback on Actual SoaS Beta 1
I tried the latest beta over the weekend. I created the stick I used last time without overlaying home, so I kept the stuff I had on there before. My comments: 1). It looks like the evince djvu plugin was included this time. I installed it using yum last week, but I would have expected it to be overlaid in the process of updating the stick, so I assume that the plugin is now part of the SoaS image. It works well. 2). Read Etexts still has the issue when using highlighted speech that the highlighted text lags behind the words spoken on some machines. On others it works fine. I would say that the more powerful the machine the less likely this lag is to occur, but it seems to be more complicated than that. For instance, it works great on an HP Vectra but not on an IBM NetVista which I would have thought was as good as or better than the Vectra. This seems to be an issue with the gstreamer espeak plugin. 3). I tried installing the Tam Tam activities. Tam Tam Mini would not start, and when I looked at the log it reported a missing source file that should have been in the Tam Tam Mini bundle. I also tried Hablar Con Sara and got a syntax error in the voice.py file. As a sanity check I installed both Activities in my Sugar test environment, the one included with Fedora 10. Both started up OK. So it seems to be something with SoaS. Other Tam Tam Activities seemed to work OK, but sluggishly. 4). I liked the improvements to the Journal, especially the Open With menu that you can now get without viewing the Journal entry details window. I'm also pleased that meta data now persists across reboots. 5). I fooled around with InfoSlicer and liked it. It took me awhile to figure out what it was for and how to use it. Maybe in addition to the articles on animals it ships with it could include a brief tutorial? OT, while I couldn't get Hablar Con Sara to work on SoaS I did try it on my Fedora 10 Sugar environment. To me it looked like Speak with fewer features. The activities.sugarlabs.org site recommends this Activity but doesn't tell you why. There isn't a even good description of what it does. James Simmons ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Notes on service discovery XS/XO
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 04:08:30PM +0200, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: DNS-SD using unicast DNS seems reasonable to me too. If we can do without the avahi gunk, and use it in a way that is not optimised for user driven browsing but for automated selection of services, then it might work. Looking closer at the RFC, the initial service queries do have an added overhead in that a layer of indirection is used (not SRV - A, but instead PTR - SRV + TXT - A). But standard DNS optimizations apply, so SOA record should allow clients to preserve bandwidth through caching. Can we teach dnsmasq to push all the relevant records with the SOA record? I don't understand your question. Sounds like prefetching that isn't part of dns (id you perhaps think of DHCP here?) As I understand dns, if you request a SOA record, then you get a SOA record and only that. You can request the whole domain, but that does not seem bandwidth saving to me. The main bandwidth saver, I believe, is that of sane query caching and knowledge of the segments of the domain structure. In other words: Install dnsmasq on the XOs, use plain standard DNS internally and on the wire, setup DNS-SD entries in a standard nameserver on the XS, and extend Sugar to support DNS-SD. I'd be happy to help compose standard BIND9 files, if that is what will be used on the XS. If we have a dnsmasq resident expert, I rather use your help transitioning to dnsmasq (note - with several bits of weird dhcp rules). There is no upside to BIND and plenty of downsides, starting with the 25MB memory footprint. If that's me you titulate so nicely, then you are way too kind: I have only little experience with dnsmasq used as a caching-only name server, i.e. zero experience with dnsmasq as a real name server containing local data. You are right that BIND9 is a bastard with memory consumption, and it makes sense to use dnsmasq on the XS. I just didn't think of that - I suggested it as a caching-only on the XOs. ISC DHCPd has a complex macro language, however, which might be the upsight you cannot live without. Beware that it is DHCP, not DNS ;-) It seems from its changelog that dnsmasq supports DNS-SD since version 2.36. Tell me more specifically what you fear can be tricky to handle in dnsmasq, either DHCP or DNS parts, and I shall have a look if I am any good at helping out. - Jonas [1] http://twistedmatrix.com/pipermail/twisted-python/2003-July/004909.html - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknsqTwACgkQn7DbMsAkQLjpwwCfSEhWMNOv6gyo9cGaBb3YTyGU OTYAni/jIMqj2nunJlwUwTNBDQc9t6E9 =ePu7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] USB stick has to be labeled FEDORA when using Boot Helper CD, persistent storage not used
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Ton van Overbeek tvoverb...@gmail.comwrote: When using the latest Boot Helper CD (http://people.sugarlabs.org/sdz/soas-boot.iso) the USB stick has to be labeled FEDORA, otherwise the boot hangs. When you created the stick with liveusb creator and included a persistent storage on the stick, this persistent storage will *not* be used when booting via the CD (reason: the initrd from the CD is used and it uses the USB stick as an overlay, the extra overlay needed for the persisten storage is not used, since the CD does not know the label/UUID for the persistent storage file). I just tested booting from CD plus USB and it seemed to use persistent storage ok. Can you confirm its not remembering things when you boot with the boot helper CD. This is an important bug if it exists and a tricky one if its not consistent. Thanks, Caroline Any chance this can be fixed for the Boot Helper CD case ? Should I file a ticket about this (no persistent storage when using the Boot Helper CD) ? I edited the SoaS wiki page and added this information. With the Boot Helper CD and a properly labeled SoaS USB stick I was able to boot into Sugar on my Windows XP virtual machine in VMware Fusion on my brand new Macbook Pro. Ton van Overbeek ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] looking for help or an example of how to use OLPCgames or pygame in a pygtk drawing area.
I've been working on a graphing activity using pygame embedded in a pygtk drawing area. Its working but I'm not sure how to get in running as an activity. What I'm looking for is just an example of an activity that has already done this that I can look at or maybe even someone to help me with this. I found the wiki page for OLPCgames which seems to be what I need to do. It says it has support for embedding in gtk, but I can't actually find any documentation. I would really appriciate it if someone could give me a hand with this. Thanks, Jamie Boisture ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] USB stick has to be labeled FEDORA when using Boot Helper CD, persistent storage not used
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Caroline Meeks solutiongr...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Ton van Overbeek tvoverb...@gmail.com wrote: When using the latest Boot Helper CD (http://people.sugarlabs.org/sdz/soas-boot.iso) the USB stick has to be labeled FEDORA, otherwise the boot hangs. When you created the stick with liveusb creator and included a persistent storage on the stick, this persistent storage will *not* be used when booting via the CD (reason: the initrd from the CD is used and it uses the USB stick as an overlay, the extra overlay needed for the persisten storage is not used, since the CD does not know the label/UUID for the persistent storage file). I just tested booting from CD plus USB and it seemed to use persistent storage ok. Can you confirm its not remembering things when you boot with the boot helper CD. This is an important bug if it exists and a tricky one if its not consistent. Thanks, Caroline It does work as you describe. When getting my original USB stick to boot with the boot helper CD I had only renamed the stick, but not changed the relevant part of the overlay name to FEDORA. Today I reran liveusb-creator *after* labeling the stick as FEDORA. Now the persistent overlay was created with the correct name and SoaS remembers my settings and the journal between boots with the boot helper CD. Updated the wiki page http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick accordingly. Ton ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Notes on service discovery XS/XO
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 09:45:28AM -0400, p...@laptop.org wrote: benjamin m. schwartz wrote: Martin Langhoff wrote: The short of it is that mdns/dns-sd make sense for a small, underutilised network of peers. They assume that the network is a cheap resource, that broadcast messages are cheap, and that there is no coordinating server. mDNS assumes all of the above things. DNS-SD does not. DNS-SD is perfectly happy to work on a standard DNS server. From the spec This document proposes no change to the structure of DNS messages, and no new operation codes, response codes, resource record types, or any other new DNS protocol values. This document simply specifies a convention for how existing resource record types can be named and structured to facilitate service discovery. (http://files.dns-sd.org/draft-cheshire-dnsext-dns-sd.txt) the last i looked at (and actually used) dns-sd to solve the discovery problem, it seemed that dns-sd development had stalled. (and i haven't had a reason to look since.) i believe we used code from Sun, which was all i could find at the time, and it wasn't what you'd call production ready. on the other hand, we were using it in a somewhat non-standard way -- in fact, we switched to mdns soon after because it fit our deployment model better, since we didn't really have a central server. the XS model may be a better fit. (this was all 3 or 4 years ago, btw.) Here's my understanding: * DNS-SD is a formalized use of DNS records to store services (rather than hosts, the most popular use of DNS records). * mDNS is DNS over multicast (using DNS-SD to resolve services). So it seems to me that if you've switched from DNS-SD to mDNS, then in fact you are still relying on DNS-SD, just using an additional layer on top of it. A good introduction (assumably more reliable than Wikipedia) is http://www.dns-sd.org/ - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkns0S8ACgkQn7DbMsAkQLipkACfW9CWHqtdtytFZuNrCzm0Jmrd jIkAn3zqgu6B6Ic7sFeINPjVGpmjmKCA =J4B8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Notes on service discovery XS/XO
jonas wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 09:45:28AM -0400, p...@laptop.org wrote: benjamin m. schwartz wrote: Martin Langhoff wrote: The short of it is that mdns/dns-sd make sense for a small, underutilised network of peers. They assume that the network is a cheap resource, that broadcast messages are cheap, and that there is no coordinating server. mDNS assumes all of the above things. DNS-SD does not. DNS-SD is perfectly happy to work on a standard DNS server. From the spec This document proposes no change to the structure of DNS messages, and no new operation codes, response codes, resource record types, or any other new DNS protocol values. This document simply specifies a convention for how existing resource record types can be named and structured to facilitate service discovery. (http://files.dns-sd.org/draft-cheshire-dnsext-dns-sd.txt) the last i looked at (and actually used) dns-sd to solve the discovery problem, it seemed that dns-sd development had stalled. (and i haven't had a reason to look since.) i believe we used code from Sun, which was all i could find at the time, and it wasn't what you'd call production ready. on the other hand, we were using it in a somewhat non-standard way -- in fact, we switched to mdns soon after because it fit our deployment model better, since we didn't really have a central server. the XS model may be a better fit. (this was all 3 or 4 years ago, btw.) Here's my understanding: * DNS-SD is a formalized use of DNS records to store services (rather than hosts, the most popular use of DNS records). * mDNS is DNS over multicast (using DNS-SD to resolve services). sigh. please disregard everything i wrote in the paragraph above. i was mistakenly referring to DNS-SD when i should have been referring to SLP (service location protocol). we migrated from SLP to mDNS. this has nothing to do with anything martin has proposed for the XS. sorry! :-) paul So it seems to me that if you've switched from DNS-SD to mDNS, then in fact you are still relying on DNS-SD, just using an additional layer on top of it. A good introduction (assumably more reliable than Wikipedia) is http://www.dns-sd.org/ - Jonas =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Notes on service discovery XS/XO
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: Here's my understanding: I've read the damned specs, don't worry. I need help getting sh*t done because there's a lot of stuff to do. any takers? m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Notes on service discovery XS/XO
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: I don't understand your question. Sounds like prefetching that isn't part of dns (id you perhaps think of DHCP here?) I don't have my well-worn DNS and BIND book with me right now but I am positive that the server side can decide to give the client additional entries. It's colloquially known as the additional section. Been doing BIND and djbdns admin for 10+ years. If we have - for example - 10 services, it is an excellent bw saving strategy to push the 10 services in the additional section, so that the client caches it in the first request, rather than issuing 10 separate requests. my initial reaction to this is that it's going to look to the client exactly the same as a bad guy trying to poison DNS by sending unasked for responses, how do the clients tell the difference? also note that this will require that you run some sort of DNS cache on the client, otherwise the particular app that did the DNS request will go on with life and make the exact same request again. You are right that BIND9 is a bastard with memory consumption, and it makes sense to use dnsmasq on the XS. I just didn't think of that - I Well, right now we have BIND + DHCP. BIND is a serious mismatch for the XS. We are doing quite a bit of advanced dhcpd configuration which we will want to replicate. For a quick summary: - We just have a small handful of important local names to serve via DNS (but we may want to push them in the 'additional section' as oulined above). - For the DHCP svc we listen on various network interfaces and assign addresses in _different netblocks_ according to the network interface that received the request. Tricky! See http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/xs-config/tree/altfiles/etc/sysconfig/olpc-scripts/dhcpd.conf.1 - To make matters more complex, my plan is to evolve towards assigning different addresses once the user registered -- to cordon-off internet access, a bit like pay-to-play internet-cafe routers do. That requires a bit of poking at the dhcp daemon to whitelist specific MAC addresses and forcing the user to re-request the lease. take a look at packetfence. it does exactly that job today, for free, on linux (among other platforms) I think it even handles the multiple interfaces/netblocks problem, but I could be wrong. David Lang___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] SoaS on XO issues for discussion
Sebastian and I had a discussion about SoaS builds being used on XOs. We wonder if anyone has any feedback or guidance on issues around SoaS builds being used on (the NAND of) XOs, like: * Should SoaS2's software artifacts include a XO-1 NAND .img/crc file? * Should Soas2's software artifacts include non-Fedora (that is, non-upstream) bits or yum repositories? For example: a) OLPC kernel (2.6.25); or b) Via wireless drivers? * Should an olpc-update-like mechanism be supported? We put together a bit of detail about those question and a record of our initial discussion at: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:MartinDengler/Commentaries:SoaSonXO Comments welcome. Martin PS: The discussion is particularly relevant for me because OLPC UK is lending out XO-1s and I'd like to have a recent Sugar version on them. pgpP2IQVe46K4.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Gsoc] Congratulations to the accepted Gsoc applications.
I am really surprised with the list, although still absolutely what I had predicted. And I am glad to be working with Lucian, bemasc and silbe as fellow GSoC people, awesome people them. (I dont know felipe, but his profile was really awesome) And aa is one awesome coding/knowledgeable magician! ;) I am sure we have at least one more awesome condidate ready to do her project off GSoC, I hope others take it as an example. :D On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Jameson Quinn jameson.qu...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 5:48 PM, Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero dir...@gmail.com wrote: Student Title Mentor Status Lucian Branescu Mihailahttp://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/sugarlabs/t124025001233 Webified walter bender accepted Sascha Silbehttp://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/sugarlabs/t124025001821 Version support for Sugar data store / Journal Jameson Quinn accepted felipe lopez toledohttp://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/sugarlabs/t124025002631 Karma + Activities bryan berry accepted vamsi krishna davulurihttp://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/sugarlabs/t124025003408 Adding Print Support to the XOs andres ambrois accepted Benjamin Schwartzhttp://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/sugarlabs/t124025004103 Decentralized Asynchronous Collision-free Editing with Groupthink assim deodia accepted These were some of the best applications both for Sugar and SugarLabs community development Rafael Ortiz These were, indeed, justly accepted. But I have to take a minute to thank the applicants who were not accepted. There were at least 5 or 6 unaccepted applications which showed serious dedication, creativity, and practicality. The competition to get into GSoC is always very tough, and this year was no exception. I have reason to hope that a few of the better applicants are still interested in contributing to Sugar Labs, and I hope to see them participating through the year, and then winning slots next year. (And since I'm pretty darn sure we can do a great job with the applicants who were accepted, I hope that Google will reward us with more slots next year). Thanks, all the applicants, and thank you to Google as well. This is a great program from all sides, and it's humbling to be a part of it. Jameson ___ GSoC mailing list g...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/gsoc ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Record-61
http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4081 == Bundle == http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/downloads/latest/4081 == NEWS == * Use uuid and do not md5 video files * Fallback to ximagesink if xvimagesink is unaccessible * Use one pass for encodings -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] discussion of which javascript framework to use for Karma
Subzero, below is a conversation I had w/ my friend Christopher Marin who is a web developer. El es ecuadoreno pero crecimos juntos en Los Angeles. also, this google trends report should be of interest http://www.google.com/trends?q=dojo%2C+extjs%2C+jQuery%2C +mootoolsctab=0geo=alldate=ytdsort=0 me: hey dude, have a moment to chat? C: Sure me: I am working w/ a GSoC participant on Karma the first thing to do is evaluate which js framework to use we are going to evaluate dojo, jQuery, and at least 1 more what do you recommend? Christopher: Great My favorite general use js framework at the moment is jQuery. It seems to have the most momentum behind it, creator is js genius, and it is easy to write apps with it. The only thing it doesn't have a strong base in right now is widgets me: and widgets are what? Christopher: In my opinion ext is tops here. Things like grids, windowing and layout systems, tabs, menus, accordions, etc me: will jQuery catch up in time? or is it limited architecturally? Christopher: Ext can actually run on top of jquery So in our app at my company we run both jquery and ext Jquery has ui project me: and jquery-ui is analogous to extjs widgets? Christopher: They've made good strides lately, already have a book out just on that subproject Yes, but not as mature or near the range of functionality, yet, though I'm sure they'll catch up eventually Ext is coming out with a major new release soon, the base version of 3 is already outC Best thing to do with them is to check out their samples, documentation is also top notch. Also a few books came out on ext recently me: what about extjs community? its leadership? Christopher: Only issue with ext is licensing me: i don't like licensing problems at all Christopher: They made their licensing more strict as of 3. Free for open source projects, uses gpl But commercial is supposed to pay me: but for-profit, closed-source companies have to pay? Christopher: Community and leadership of ext good, though nothing seems as large as jquery community nowadays me: I don't like that. I want closed-source education companies to switch from Flash to js How do u compare dojo to jQuery? Christopher: Yes, those have to pay Microsoft and nokie recently standardized on jquery Nokia So lots of folks from those camps are contributing code and samples me: cool, and big for-profit edu companies will like it better if uses similar technologies to MS Christopher: Dojo is mature, probably stronger in widgets, or at least more standardized in terms of look and feel The thing is with jquery there are a million plugins, but until ui project there was no standardization of look and feel, and how components shoulkd interact Sent at 9:52 AM on Tuesday Christopher: That's the beauty of ext, you can do a full almost desktop like ui with sortable, filterable grids, even bake it all into adobe air. jquery not quite there yet Sent at 9:54 AM on Tuesday me: it's pretty critical to me that commercial companies use our little framework. Anything that slows down commercial adoption would be bad. Christopher: But back to dojo, my sense is that it has lost momentum, along with prototype and scriptaculous. Mootools is another intersting one. me: could dojo regain the momentum? does it have good leadership? Christopher: An interesting experiment would be to do a search of these on google trends. You'll see how these have fared over the last year me: sure Sent at 9:56 AM on Tuesday Christopher: If I had to pick one framework it would be jquery Chances are, someone somewhere will have solved many of the challenges you'll face me: which is what I am really hoping for what are more plusses, minuses for dojo? here is an older trend report file:///home/hitman/Desktop/Personal/Link% 20to%20docs/javascript/jquery/jquery_beginning_part1_files/trends.jpg Christopher: To be honest I haven't used it much at all. Tried one of their widgets a couple years ago. I think the thing I didn't like at the time was the skins, they weren't particularly pretty. On my cell right now, can't see links me: john resig is really impressive Christopher: Yeah, just used one of his functions of his blog a few hours ago to remove a specific element from an array (whish js had that natively) me: thanks this has been extremely helpful -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
