date:20170929

Re: [Sugar-devel] [Systems] [IAEP] Social Help [was Re: New Discourse version, update available]

2017-09-29 Thread James Cameron

G'day Bernie,

I agree, Mailman3 would be a useful upgrade.

I'm sorry, I can't suggest any mobile friendly web IRC clients, but
I've heard from others they do exist, just a matter of selecting one.

Cross-linking IRC and Slack via Matrix seems all the rage on the
conference circuit, but that seems mostly a way to avoid having to
change clients.  ;-)

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 09:09:08PM -0400, Bernie Innocenti wrote:
> Thankyou James for the summary and thankyou Sam for the quick response.
> 
> As for Slack: I think it's used only by Samuel to mentor some new sysadmins. 
> I have to admit I'm rarely on IRC these days due to lack of a good Android 
> client, but I'd also recommend against adding new public communication 
> channels for the project.
> 
> Would someone volunteer to update chat.sugarlabs.org? Perhaps see if there 
> are web IRC clients that are more mobile friendly than qwebirc?
> 
> And Mailman3 with Hyperkitty would also be a big help for non-technical users 
> (forum like interface for posting to lists).
> 
> 
> On September 29, 2017 6:36:19 PM EDT, Sam Parkinson  wrote:
> >Thanks for replying James.  Your pretty spot - that is a pretty good
> >summary of the thing.
> >I didn't get the email alerting about the 1-click upgrade.  I'm
> >clicking to apply it now.
> >I've granted admin to quozl.  If any sysadmin would like admin on the
> >service, please send your username and I can add you via the web
> >interface.  If you admin, I think that will let you do 1 click
> >upgrades.
> >Sorry for dropping the ball on this one.
> >On Sat, 2017-09-30 at 06:46 +1000, James Cameron wrote:
> >> G'day Bernie,
> >> 
> >> No, and no.
> >> 
> >> Thanks for raising this.  It is a risk to have a public service
> >> unmaintained, as it can lead to it being exploited.
> >> 
> >> Discourse is integrated with Sugar through the Social Help feature
> >> [0], using the alt-shift-h shortcut or the frame icon.  The feature
> >> was added [1, 2] in GSoC 2014 and merged in May 2015 for Sugar 0.106,
> >> with some good fixes since.
> >> 
> >> Social Help is an underutilised feature.  Rate of new posts is
> >> minimal, at about two per year, and I think I'm the only person
> >> responding [3].
> >> 
> >> Despite designed technical advantages [1] Social Help has not had the
> >> popularity or numerical success of Sugar Network, and with the
> >> board's
> >> decision [4] to remediate Sugar Network my guess is that the Social
> >> Help feature could be removed from Sugar.
> >> 
> >> My guesses for why Social Help has not been used are;
> >> 
> >> (a) the feature is undiscoverable,
> >> 
> >> (b) deployments have set up their own forums,
> >> 
> >> (c) independent users of Sugar 0.106 and later are minimal,
> >> 
> >> (d) failed to gain critical mass.
> >> 
> >> To answer your questions;
> >> 
> >> 1.  I'm not handling updates to Discourse; I've no access keys and
> >> don't know how to do it [5].  Sam Parkinson was handling updates at
> >> one stage.
> >> 
> >> 2.  I'm not using it for project communications, and I've asked those
> >> who try that to use mailing lists [6].
> >> 
> >> You mention Slack.  I don't believe we have Slack.  Slack isn't
> >> referenced in the Wiki, and hasn't been mentioned on mailing lists.
> >> If Slack is being used, it is a private group, and the knowledge
> >> hasn't been widely distributed yet.  Please do that?
> >> 
> >> We do have too many project communication options for the size of the
> >> project at the moment.  I'd like to see some options close.
> >> 
> >> +CC sugar-devel@ and iaep@ since I've raised several issues that may
> >> benefit from wider discussion.  ;-)
> >> 
> >> References:
> >> 
> >> 0.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Social_Help
> >> 1.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2014/AnaBalica/Socia
> >> l_Help#Comparison_between_Discourse_and_Sugar_Network
> >> 2.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2014/Prasoon2211/Soc
> >> ial_Help
> >> 3.  https://socialhelp.sugarlabs.org/
> >> 4.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Oversight_Board/Decisions#2017-04-2
> >> 1_2
> >> 5.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Service/Social_Help#Todo
> >> 6.  https://socialhelp.sugarlabs.org/t/sugar-collaboration-xsce-iiab-
> >> xmpp-jabber-ejabberd/226/5
> >> 
> >> On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 01:31:46PM -0400, Bernie Innocenti wrote:
> >> > Is anyone handling updates for discourse?
> >> > 
> >> > Is it being used for project communication? I ask because we also
> >> > have
> >> > IRC, Slack and mailing lists.
> >> > 
> >> > On 29/09/17 07:57, socialh...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
> >> > > Hooray, a new version of Discourse  is
> >> > > available!
> >> > > 
> >> > > Your version: 1.6.8
> >> > > New version: *1.8.8*
> >> > > 
> >> > >   *
> >> > > 
> >> > > Upgrade using our easy *one-click browser upgrade [...]
> >> > > 
> >> > >   *
> >> > > 
> >> > > See what's new in the GitHub changelog
> >> > >

Re: [Sugar-devel] [Systems] [IAEP] Social Help [was Re: New Discourse version, update available]

2017-09-29 Thread Bernie Innocenti

Thankyou James for the summary and thankyou Sam for the quick response.

As for Slack: I think it's used only by Samuel to mentor some new sysadmins. I 
have to admit I'm rarely on IRC these days due to lack of a good Android 
client, but I'd also recommend against adding new public communication channels 
for the project.

Would someone volunteer to update chat.sugarlabs.org? Perhaps see if there are 
web IRC clients that are more mobile friendly than qwebirc?

And Mailman3 with Hyperkitty would also be a big help for non-technical users 
(forum like interface for posting to lists).


On September 29, 2017 6:36:19 PM EDT, Sam Parkinson  wrote:
>Thanks for replying James.  Your pretty spot - that is a pretty good
>summary of the thing.
>I didn't get the email alerting about the 1-click upgrade.  I'm
>clicking to apply it now.
>I've granted admin to quozl.  If any sysadmin would like admin on the
>service, please send your username and I can add you via the web
>interface.  If you admin, I think that will let you do 1 click
>upgrades.
>Sorry for dropping the ball on this one.
>On Sat, 2017-09-30 at 06:46 +1000, James Cameron wrote:
>> G'day Bernie,
>> 
>> No, and no.
>> 
>> Thanks for raising this.  It is a risk to have a public service
>> unmaintained, as it can lead to it being exploited.
>> 
>> Discourse is integrated with Sugar through the Social Help feature
>> [0], using the alt-shift-h shortcut or the frame icon.  The feature
>> was added [1, 2] in GSoC 2014 and merged in May 2015 for Sugar 0.106,
>> with some good fixes since.
>> 
>> Social Help is an underutilised feature.  Rate of new posts is
>> minimal, at about two per year, and I think I'm the only person
>> responding [3].
>> 
>> Despite designed technical advantages [1] Social Help has not had the
>> popularity or numerical success of Sugar Network, and with the
>> board's
>> decision [4] to remediate Sugar Network my guess is that the Social
>> Help feature could be removed from Sugar.
>> 
>> My guesses for why Social Help has not been used are;
>> 
>> (a) the feature is undiscoverable,
>> 
>> (b) deployments have set up their own forums,
>> 
>> (c) independent users of Sugar 0.106 and later are minimal,
>> 
>> (d) failed to gain critical mass.
>> 
>> To answer your questions;
>> 
>> 1.  I'm not handling updates to Discourse; I've no access keys and
>> don't know how to do it [5].  Sam Parkinson was handling updates at
>> one stage.
>> 
>> 2.  I'm not using it for project communications, and I've asked those
>> who try that to use mailing lists [6].
>> 
>> You mention Slack.  I don't believe we have Slack.  Slack isn't
>> referenced in the Wiki, and hasn't been mentioned on mailing lists.
>> If Slack is being used, it is a private group, and the knowledge
>> hasn't been widely distributed yet.  Please do that?
>> 
>> We do have too many project communication options for the size of the
>> project at the moment.  I'd like to see some options close.
>> 
>> +CC sugar-devel@ and iaep@ since I've raised several issues that may
>> benefit from wider discussion.  ;-)
>> 
>> References:
>> 
>> 0.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Social_Help
>> 1.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2014/AnaBalica/Socia
>> l_Help#Comparison_between_Discourse_and_Sugar_Network
>> 2.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2014/Prasoon2211/Soc
>> ial_Help
>> 3.  https://socialhelp.sugarlabs.org/
>> 4.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Oversight_Board/Decisions#2017-04-2
>> 1_2
>> 5.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Service/Social_Help#Todo
>> 6.  https://socialhelp.sugarlabs.org/t/sugar-collaboration-xsce-iiab-
>> xmpp-jabber-ejabberd/226/5
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 01:31:46PM -0400, Bernie Innocenti wrote:
>> > Is anyone handling updates for discourse?
>> > 
>> > Is it being used for project communication? I ask because we also
>> > have
>> > IRC, Slack and mailing lists.
>> > 
>> > On 29/09/17 07:57, socialh...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
>> > > Hooray, a new version of Discourse  is
>> > > available!
>> > > 
>> > > Your version: 1.6.8
>> > > New version: *1.8.8*
>> > > 
>> > >   *
>> > > 
>> > > Upgrade using our easy *one-click browser upgrade [...]
>> > > 
>> > >   *
>> > > 
>> > > See what's new in the GitHub changelog
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > >   *
>> > > 
>> > > Visit meta.discourse.org  for
>> > > news,
>> > > discussion, and support for Discourse
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > > ___
>> > > Systems mailing list
>> > > syst...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/systems
>> > > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> >  _ // Bernie Innocenti
>> >  \X/  http://codewiz.org
>> > ___
>> > Systems mailing list
>> > syst...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/systems

-- 
ベルニー
Sent from my Android device wit

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Social Help [was Re: New Discourse version, update available]

2017-09-29 Thread Sam Parkinson

Thanks for replying James.  Your pretty spot - that is a pretty good
summary of the thing.
I didn't get the email alerting about the 1-click upgrade.  I'm
clicking to apply it now.
I've granted admin to quozl.  If any sysadmin would like admin on the
service, please send your username and I can add you via the web
interface.  If you admin, I think that will let you do 1 click
upgrades.
Sorry for dropping the ball on this one.
On Sat, 2017-09-30 at 06:46 +1000, James Cameron wrote:
> G'day Bernie,
> 
> No, and no.
> 
> Thanks for raising this.  It is a risk to have a public service
> unmaintained, as it can lead to it being exploited.
> 
> Discourse is integrated with Sugar through the Social Help feature
> [0], using the alt-shift-h shortcut or the frame icon.  The feature
> was added [1, 2] in GSoC 2014 and merged in May 2015 for Sugar 0.106,
> with some good fixes since.
> 
> Social Help is an underutilised feature.  Rate of new posts is
> minimal, at about two per year, and I think I'm the only person
> responding [3].
> 
> Despite designed technical advantages [1] Social Help has not had the
> popularity or numerical success of Sugar Network, and with the
> board's
> decision [4] to remediate Sugar Network my guess is that the Social
> Help feature could be removed from Sugar.
> 
> My guesses for why Social Help has not been used are;
> 
> (a) the feature is undiscoverable,
> 
> (b) deployments have set up their own forums,
> 
> (c) independent users of Sugar 0.106 and later are minimal,
> 
> (d) failed to gain critical mass.
> 
> To answer your questions;
> 
> 1.  I'm not handling updates to Discourse; I've no access keys and
> don't know how to do it [5].  Sam Parkinson was handling updates at
> one stage.
> 
> 2.  I'm not using it for project communications, and I've asked those
> who try that to use mailing lists [6].
> 
> You mention Slack.  I don't believe we have Slack.  Slack isn't
> referenced in the Wiki, and hasn't been mentioned on mailing lists.
> If Slack is being used, it is a private group, and the knowledge
> hasn't been widely distributed yet.  Please do that?
> 
> We do have too many project communication options for the size of the
> project at the moment.  I'd like to see some options close.
> 
> +CC sugar-devel@ and iaep@ since I've raised several issues that may
> benefit from wider discussion.  ;-)
> 
> References:
> 
> 0.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Social_Help
> 1.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2014/AnaBalica/Socia
> l_Help#Comparison_between_Discourse_and_Sugar_Network
> 2.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2014/Prasoon2211/Soc
> ial_Help
> 3.  https://socialhelp.sugarlabs.org/
> 4.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Oversight_Board/Decisions#2017-04-2
> 1_2
> 5.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Service/Social_Help#Todo
> 6.  https://socialhelp.sugarlabs.org/t/sugar-collaboration-xsce-iiab-
> xmpp-jabber-ejabberd/226/5
> 
> On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 01:31:46PM -0400, Bernie Innocenti wrote:
> > Is anyone handling updates for discourse?
> > 
> > Is it being used for project communication? I ask because we also
> > have
> > IRC, Slack and mailing lists.
> > 
> > On 29/09/17 07:57, socialh...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
> > > Hooray, a new version of Discourse  is
> > > available!
> > > 
> > > Your version: 1.6.8
> > > New version: *1.8.8*
> > > 
> > >   *
> > > 
> > > Upgrade using our easy *one-click browser upgrade [...]
> > > 
> > >   *
> > > 
> > > See what's new in the GitHub changelog
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   *
> > > 
> > > Visit meta.discourse.org  for
> > > news,
> > > discussion, and support for Discourse
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > Systems mailing list
> > > syst...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/systems
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> >  _ // Bernie Innocenti
> >  \X/  http://codewiz.org
> > ___
> > Systems mailing list
> > syst...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/systems
-- 
Thanks,
Sam

Check out this narrative tech podcast: https://www.sam.today/podcast/

https://www.sam.today/___
Sugar-devel mailing list
Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

[Sugar-devel] Social Help [was Re: New Discourse version, update available]

2017-09-29 Thread James Cameron

G'day Bernie,

No, and no.

Thanks for raising this.  It is a risk to have a public service
unmaintained, as it can lead to it being exploited.

Discourse is integrated with Sugar through the Social Help feature
[0], using the alt-shift-h shortcut or the frame icon.  The feature
was added [1, 2] in GSoC 2014 and merged in May 2015 for Sugar 0.106,
with some good fixes since.

Social Help is an underutilised feature.  Rate of new posts is
minimal, at about two per year, and I think I'm the only person
responding [3].

Despite designed technical advantages [1] Social Help has not had the
popularity or numerical success of Sugar Network, and with the board's
decision [4] to remediate Sugar Network my guess is that the Social
Help feature could be removed from Sugar.

My guesses for why Social Help has not been used are;

(a) the feature is undiscoverable,

(b) deployments have set up their own forums,

(c) independent users of Sugar 0.106 and later are minimal,

(d) failed to gain critical mass.

To answer your questions;

1.  I'm not handling updates to Discourse; I've no access keys and
don't know how to do it [5].  Sam Parkinson was handling updates at
one stage.

2.  I'm not using it for project communications, and I've asked those
who try that to use mailing lists [6].

You mention Slack.  I don't believe we have Slack.  Slack isn't
referenced in the Wiki, and hasn't been mentioned on mailing lists.
If Slack is being used, it is a private group, and the knowledge
hasn't been widely distributed yet.  Please do that?

We do have too many project communication options for the size of the
project at the moment.  I'd like to see some options close.

+CC sugar-devel@ and iaep@ since I've raised several issues that may
benefit from wider discussion.  ;-)

References:

0.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Social_Help
1.  
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2014/AnaBalica/Social_Help#Comparison_between_Discourse_and_Sugar_Network
2.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2014/Prasoon2211/Social_Help
3.  https://socialhelp.sugarlabs.org/
4.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Oversight_Board/Decisions#2017-04-21_2
5.  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Service/Social_Help#Todo
6.  
https://socialhelp.sugarlabs.org/t/sugar-collaboration-xsce-iiab-xmpp-jabber-ejabberd/226/5

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 01:31:46PM -0400, Bernie Innocenti wrote:
> Is anyone handling updates for discourse?
> 
> Is it being used for project communication? I ask because we also have
> IRC, Slack and mailing lists.
> 
> On 29/09/17 07:57, socialh...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
> > Hooray, a new version of Discourse  is available!
> > 
> > Your version: 1.6.8
> > New version: *1.8.8*
> > 
> >   *
> > 
> > Upgrade using our easy *one-click browser upgrade [...]
> > 
> >   *
> > 
> > See what's new in the GitHub changelog
> > 
> > 
> >   *
> > 
> > Visit meta.discourse.org  for news,
> > discussion, and support for Discourse
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Systems mailing list
> > syst...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/systems
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
>  _ // Bernie Innocenti
>  \X/  http://codewiz.org
> ___
> Systems mailing list
> syst...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/systems

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
___
Sugar-devel mailing list
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http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] [Systems] [IAEP] Social Help [was Re: New Discourse version, update available]

Re: [Sugar-devel] [Systems] [IAEP] Social Help [was Re: New Discourse version, update available]

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Social Help [was Re: New Discourse version, update available]

[Sugar-devel] Social Help [was Re: New Discourse version, update available]

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