Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC project ideas

[utkarsh Dhawan]

Hi Tony,

Jupyter notebook seems like a great idea, although I have never worked on
implementing existing projects on sugar. Is there a way to migrate them
directly or do we have to recreate them?

Thanking You,
Utkarsh Dhawan
(Developer/Student)

Note:Please Consider The environment before printing.


On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 3:49 PM Tony Anderson  wrote:

> This project was not completed given the limited time available to GSOC
> projects. It fell victim to the common problem of expanding the goals
> beyond the available resources. Currently I believe Jupyter Notebook is
> a better solution if it can be added to Sugar.
>
> Tony
>
> On 1/18/19 7:40 AM, James Cameron wrote:
> > G'day Utkarsh,
> >
> > Thanks, very interesting.  Would you like the activity to be hosted at
> > Sugar Labs?  At the moment you have it in your own profile.  I'm not
> > surprised I'd forgotten all about it, and perhaps others had too.
> >
> > I note there are no releases tagged and no bundle available from
> > activities.sugarlabs.org; do you plan anything like that?  Is it ready?
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 05:29:06PM +0530, utkarsh Dhawan wrote:
> >> Hi James,
> >>
> >> Web Confusion was an activity part of GSOC 2015. You can find the
> reference
> >> here [1] the project was developed by me and Vibhor under the
> mentorship of
> >> Tony. The activity basically revolves around interactive tasks divided
> into
> >> various levels. You can find an example in the attachment below.
> >>
> >> [1] [1]https://github.com/crusher95/webconfusion
> >>
> >> Thanking You,
> >> Utkarsh Dhawan
> >> (Developer/Student)
> >>
> >> Note:Please Consider The environment before printing.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 1:20 PM James Cameron <[2]qu...@laptop.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>  G'day Utkarsh,
> >>
> >>  What can you tell us about this Web Confusion project?  I've
> searched
> >>  and I can't it.
> >>
> >>  We have in Sugarizer the activities Etoys, Jappy, Scratch, and
> Turtle
> >>  Blocks.  We have in Sugar also the activities Pippy, Develop, and
> >>  PyDebug.  All are offline capable.
> >>
> >>  We also have Music Blocks, as a web app.  There are also many other
> >>  web apps for teaching children how to code.  All are online
> capable.
> >>
> >>  Or do you mean adding the Turtle Confusion shape challenges to the
> >>  Turtle Blocks JavaScript activity?  I think they are already there,
> >>  no?
> >>
> >>  On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 11:50:01AM +0530, utkarsh Dhawan wrote:
> >>  > Hi,
> >>  >
> >>  > Is the Web Confusion project still in the pipeline? Since I
> think it was
> >>  an
> >>  > amazing project to teach young kids about programming languages
> at an
> >>  early
> >>  > stage. Also I think the scope for the same can be increased to
> other
> >>  languages
> >>  > like python.
> >>  >
> >>  > Thanking You,
> >>  > Utkarsh Dhawan
> >>  > (Developer/Student)
> >>  >
> >>  > Note:Please Consider The environment before printing.
> >>  >
> >>  > On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 6:40 AM Walter Bender <[1][3]
> >>  walter.ben...@gmail.com>
> >>  > wrote:
> >>  >
> >>  > We have some ideas contributed by Rahul and myself. But
> nothing from
> >>  anyone
> >>  > else. Please add your ideas here [1] this week as
> organization
> >>  applications
> >>  > are due soon.
> >>  >
> >>  > regards.
> >>  >
> >>  > -walter
> >>  >
> >>  > [1] [2][4]
> https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/blob/master/Ideas-2019.md
> >>  > --
> >>  > Walter Bender
> >>  > Sugar Labs
> >>  > [3][5]http://www.sugarlabs.org
> >>  > [4]
> >>  > ___
> >>  > Sugar-devel mailing list
> >>  > [5][6]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> >>  > [6][7]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >>  >
> >>  > References:
> >>  >
> >>  > [1] mailto:[8]walter.ben...@gmail.com
> >>  > [2] [9]
> https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/blob/master/Ideas-2019.md
> >>  > [3] [10]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> >>  > [4] [11]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> >>  > [5] mailto:[12]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> >>  > [6] [13]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >>
> >>  > ___
> >>  > Sugar-devel mailing list
> >>  > [14]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> >>  > [15]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >>
> >>  --
> >>  James Cameron
> >>  [16]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> >>  ___
> >>  Sugar-devel mailing list
> >>  [17]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> >>  [18]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >>
> >> References:
> >>
> >> [1] https://github.com/crusher95/webconfusion
> >> [2] mailto:qu...@laptop.org
> 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Abandoned or orphaned activities

[Tony Anderson]

While it is marvelous to see some actual attention to the Sugar 
activities, this approach is the direct opposite of the logic behind the 
move of the activities to gitHub. This is a return to the G1G1 model in 
which individuals develop, contribute and own activities. There can be 
no abandoned or orphaned activities in a community support model.


It was recognized by Walter and others that there were two factors which 
made that ownership model unworkable. First, changes in Sugar software 
support such as the move to GTK3 made common changes to all activities 
necessary and, second, that many of the original contributors are no 
longer involved with Sugar.


GitHub was touted as the way in which Sugar Labs as a community would 
support Sugar and its library of activities. However, in practice 
support for activities has become increasingly limited to a small number 
of ones selected for inclusion in the 13.2 series of builds.


The Sugar activities library is made available to our users via ASLO. 
Unfortunately, there are activities with new versions in gitHub which 
have not been released to ASLO and thus are unknown to our users. There 
is even confusion over which 'github'. It has to be kept clear that 
developers can use any method they chose. What is controlled is the 
repository on gitHub. Any changes outside of the Sugar Labs github are 
invisible until they are submitted as a new version.

*
*
*Educational intent*

What I would like to see is a return to the founding philosophy of 
Sugar. Everyone is welcome to contribute. When you get 10 lines of code 
working, submit your activity. Sugar is designed to provide all the 
software tools needed to develop activities in Sugar - no 
cross-development, containers, or virtual environments. Instead of 
requesting new contributors to demonstrate their technical proficiency 
by putting their name on the XO icon in the Home View, identify some 
real examples of changes that would improve Sugar. There are plenty 
available:


Fix the icons on 'my settings' so they are visible instead of switching 
to gnome by clicking on the big toe.
When you take a screenshot and switch to the Journal to give it a title, 
you must use the Frame to return, not the Activity key.
The kids love the ability to customize their laptop with a background 
picture. Unfortunately this often makes the icons in the Home View 
invisible.
Add Jupyter Notebook as a built-in capability of Sugar (possibly as a 
service of Browse).
Help solve problems with a long list of activities (such as the lack of 
sound in Block Party).

Find a way for Browse to support the css FlexBox.

Stop using Pippy as a ceiling to our users learning to program in 
Python. They can work up to 'Make your own Sugar Activities'.  Start 
with the Hello World activity. Explain GTK and its benefits. PyDebug 
provides recipes for many common coding situations. Stop hiding the 
Terminal and Log activities - try to encourage them to become favorites. 
Soon we could see a new generation of user-programmers as we did in 
Uruguay.


Along this theme, we should embrace the RPI and its compatriots as a way 
to make embedded computing tangible. It would not be difficult to 
connect such a device via the Ad Hoc network so that it could be used to 
transfer a program written on an XO to the device and execute it with 
the user seeing the results on LEDs (e.g. Sense Hat).


Tony

On 1/20/19 3:48 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
I noticed Dimensions fell off the list. I will take that one on as I 
think it is of real value.


-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 8:44 AM James Cameron > wrote:


Thanks. So the list looks like;

# Walter Bender

* Music Blocks,
* Turtle Blocks JS,

# Rahul Bothra

* CowBulls,
* Flappy,
* Cedit,
* Polari,

# James Cameron

* Abacus,
* Browse (master),
* Browse (fedora 18 - webkit - v157.x),
* Calculator,
* Chart,
* Chat,
* Clock,
* Develop,
* Distance,
* Finance,
* Find Words,
* Fototoon,
* Fraction Bounce,
* Gears,
* GetBooks,
* Help,
* ImageViewer,
* Implode,
* Jukebox,
* Labyrinth,
* Letters,
* Log,
* Maze,
* Measure,
* Memorize,
* Moon (master),
* Moon (fedora 18 - gtk2 - v17.x),
* MusicKeyboard (master),
* MusicKeyboard (fedora 18 - csound - v8.x),
* Paint,
* Physics,
* Pippy,
* Poll,
* Portfolio,
* Read (master),
* Read (fedora 18 - webkit - v118.x),
* Record (master),
* Record (fedora 18 - gstreamer - v10x),
* SimpleEnglishWikipedia,
* Speak,
* StopWatch,
* Story,
* Terminal,
* TurtleBlocks,
* Words,
* Write,

On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 09:04:50AM -0500, Walter Bender wrote:
> I am actively maintaining Music Blocks and Turtle Blocks JS.
> I just haven't had the bandwidth to do much beyond that of late.
That said, I
> am happy to kibbutz on any 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestion on moving from IRC to Gitter

[Alex Perez]

As an oversight board member, for all the same reasons cited below, I am 
100% _not_ in favor of this proposal. It's a crude attempt at 
re-implementing IRC, and despite being open-source, is effectively a 
proprietary service, which there is no guarantee of continued support 
for. If you want to offer to maintain a Gitter-to-IRC bridge, that's 
great, otherwise I think this highly negative move.


I guess the real question I have, which doesn't seem to have been 
answered anywhere yet, is, why Gitter, specifically? There are other, 
much more option options, such as Matrix, which have far more mature IRC 
integration options.


James Cameron wrote on 1/20/19 4:16 PM:

Thanks Rahul.  Please add to the plan;

- critical people; identify the critical code maintainers and note
   when they have engaged with Gitter.im on a continuous basis; in
   particular we are yet to hear from Lionel and Ibiam.

- licensing; as an open source project within the Software Freedom
   Conservancy, we should aim to promote tools that have a compatible
   license.  Devin said the web app is licensed MIT, but the service is
   All Rights Reserved.

- inclusiveness of prior contributors; we have several contributors
   who know how to use IRC, but are disinclined due to their age to
   use the modern systems; how do we continue to include them?

- further division; every time we start something new, we divide again
   the group of people talking, and the new group often forgets to keep
   the old group informed; how will the non-Gitter.im contributors be
   kept informed?  I'm not asking about the IRC contributors, but also
   people using GitHub, Wiki, Trac, Jabber, Pootle, and the mailing
   lists.

- Code of Conduct; how to make this more obvious in Gitter.im?
   Especially "If you come across a post that is in an incorrect forum,
   please respectfully redirect the poster to the appropriate" (as has
   happened already), and making sure to consult others.

I've briefly authorised and looked at Gitter.im, using Firefox on
Ubuntu, and have observations;

1.  a significant increase in mail contact attempts by other projects
on GitHub; i.e. you'll get more spam, because people have coded things
to get to you through Gitter,

2.  a daily mail message containing some of the notifications from
Gitter, but not all,

3.  the display does not scroll with page down, page up, or arrow
keys, unless you first click in the message area,

4.  it isn't clear how I can make a local log of the discussion,

5.  the network demand is substantially greater than IRC; this is not
something we can expect to scale up into schools with poor networks,

6.  the power and processing demand is higher.



--
Sent from Postbox 

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Re: [Sugar-devel] introduction

[James Cameron]

Welcome, Amarjeet.

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 11:06:05PM +0530, amarjeet singh wrote:
> Hello; I am Amarjeet Singh, I am an undergraduate student  studying
> computer science in Jaypee University of Engineering & technology,
> my knowledge skills include Javascript, Python, HTML and CSS, I am
> very much interested in contributing for open source and sugar labs 
> has some impressive ideas and project to work with and I am very
> much interested in contributing to this, and I acknowledge that I am
> a good and fast learner. :)

-- 
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http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestion on moving from IRC to Gitter

[James Cameron]

Thanks Rahul.  Please add to the plan;

- critical people; identify the critical code maintainers and note
  when they have engaged with Gitter.im on a continuous basis; in
  particular we are yet to hear from Lionel and Ibiam.

- licensing; as an open source project within the Software Freedom
  Conservancy, we should aim to promote tools that have a compatible
  license.  Devin said the web app is licensed MIT, but the service is
  All Rights Reserved.

- inclusiveness of prior contributors; we have several contributors
  who know how to use IRC, but are disinclined due to their age to
  use the modern systems; how do we continue to include them?

- further division; every time we start something new, we divide again
  the group of people talking, and the new group often forgets to keep
  the old group informed; how will the non-Gitter.im contributors be
  kept informed?  I'm not asking about the IRC contributors, but also
  people using GitHub, Wiki, Trac, Jabber, Pootle, and the mailing
  lists.

- Code of Conduct; how to make this more obvious in Gitter.im?
  Especially "If you come across a post that is in an incorrect forum,
  please respectfully redirect the poster to the appropriate" (as has
  happened already), and making sure to consult others.

I've briefly authorised and looked at Gitter.im, using Firefox on
Ubuntu, and have observations;

1.  a significant increase in mail contact attempts by other projects
on GitHub; i.e. you'll get more spam, because people have coded things
to get to you through Gitter,

2.  a daily mail message containing some of the notifications from
Gitter, but not all,

3.  the display does not scroll with page down, page up, or arrow
keys, unless you first click in the message area,

4.  it isn't clear how I can make a local log of the discussion,

5.  the network demand is substantially greater than IRC; this is not
something we can expect to scale up into schools with poor networks,

6.  the power and processing demand is higher.

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
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[Sugar-devel] introduction

[amarjeet singh]

Hello; I am Amarjeet Singh, I am an undergraduate student  studying
computer science in Jaypee University of Engineering & technology, my
knowledge skills include Javascript, Python, HTML and CSS, I am very much
interested in contributing for open source and sugar labs  has some
impressive ideas and project to work with and I am very much interested in
contributing to this, and I acknowledge that I am a good and fast learner.
:)
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Abandoned or orphaned activities

[Walter Bender]

I am actively maintaining Music Blocks and Turtle Blocks JS.
I just haven't had the bandwidth to do much beyond that of late. That said,
I am happy to kibbutz on any of the activities which I used to maintain.

On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 3:11 AM Rahul Bothra  wrote:

> I am maintaining CowBulls and Flappy.
>
> I can take up cedit and Polari
>
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 12:53 PM James Cameron  wrote:
>
>> Once we had a list of abandoned activities, where the maintainer is
>> missing in action, not doing testing or releasing.
>>
>> Now, I propose the inverse; a list of activities with a maintainer
>> testing and releasing.  It will be easier to maintain that list.
>>
>> For myself, each of the Fructose activities, each of the activities we
>> ship on OLPC OS.  I know Walter is looking after Music Blocks.  Lionel
>> is looking after Sugarizer.  Are there any other developers who are
>> maintainers?
>>
>> --
>> James Cameron
>> http://quozl.netrek.org/
>> ___
>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>


-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSOC 2019 Student

[Walter Bender]

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 6:04 AM Shiv  wrote:

> Hey,
>  I saw ideas page and interested in some of those.Shall I get started
> on fixing issues in that idea? or first I should discuss with mentors on
> that project?
>

Please jump in and demonstrate you have the skills necessary to work on the
projects.

>
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 at 11:24, James Cameron  wrote:
>
>> Welcome,
>>
>> As chair of the board; Sugar Labs has decided to apply for Google
>> Summer fo Code 2019, and once our application has been submitted we
>> will wait in hope for Google to select us.
>>
>> As for myself;
>>
>> You can get started however you like.  Don't wait for us to explain,
>> and don't expect us to set specific tasks to get started with.  If
>> someone does that to you, check that others think the task should be
>> done.
>>
>> https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC has some ideas for projects we are
>> working to define better.  You are welcome to review and offer comments.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 05:39:46PM +0530, Shiv Pratap Singh wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> > I am undergraduate student in computer science.I find myself good
>> with
>> > skills required to contribute in the projects in your organization.
>> > I will be applying as GSOC student for the organization by
>> developing
>> > features.
>> > How can I get started ? Just to confirm if this organization is
>> going to
>> > participate in upcoming GSOC.Please let me know where can I find all
>> details to
>> > get started.
>> > Thank You!
>>
>> > ___
>> > Sugar-devel mailing list
>> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Cameron
>> http://quozl.netrek.org/
>> ___
>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>


-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Abandoned or orphaned activities

[Walter Bender]

I noticed Dimensions fell off the list. I will take that one on as I think
it is of real value.

-walter

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 8:44 AM James Cameron  wrote:

> Thanks.  So the list looks like;
>
> # Walter Bender
>
> * Music Blocks,
> * Turtle Blocks JS,
>
> # Rahul Bothra
>
> * CowBulls,
> * Flappy,
> * Cedit,
> * Polari,
>
> # James Cameron
>
> * Abacus,
> * Browse (master),
> * Browse (fedora 18 - webkit - v157.x),
> * Calculator,
> * Chart,
> * Chat,
> * Clock,
> * Develop,
> * Distance,
> * Finance,
> * Find Words,
> * Fototoon,
> * Fraction Bounce,
> * Gears,
> * GetBooks,
> * Help,
> * ImageViewer,
> * Implode,
> * Jukebox,
> * Labyrinth,
> * Letters,
> * Log,
> * Maze,
> * Measure,
> * Memorize,
> * Moon (master),
> * Moon (fedora 18 - gtk2 - v17.x),
> * MusicKeyboard (master),
> * MusicKeyboard (fedora 18 - csound - v8.x),
> * Paint,
> * Physics,
> * Pippy,
> * Poll,
> * Portfolio,
> * Read (master),
> * Read (fedora 18 - webkit - v118.x),
> * Record (master),
> * Record (fedora 18 - gstreamer - v10x),
> * SimpleEnglishWikipedia,
> * Speak,
> * StopWatch,
> * Story,
> * Terminal,
> * TurtleBlocks,
> * Words,
> * Write,
>
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 09:04:50AM -0500, Walter Bender wrote:
> > I am actively maintaining Music Blocks and Turtle Blocks JS.
> > I just haven't had the bandwidth to do much beyond that of late. That
> said, I
> > am happy to kibbutz on any of the activities which I used to maintain.
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 3:11 AM Rahul Bothra <[1]rrbot...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > *
> > I am maintaining CowBulls and Flappy.
> >
> > I can take up cedit and Polari
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 12:53 PM James Cameron <[2]qu...@laptop.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Once we had a list of abandoned activities, where the maintainer
> is
> > missing in action, not doing testing or releasing.
> >
> > Now, I propose the inverse; a list of activities with a
> maintainer
> > testing and releasing.  It will be easier to maintain that list.
> >
> > For myself, each of the Fructose activities, each of the
> activities we
> > ship on OLPC OS.  I know Walter is looking after Music Blocks.
> Lionel
> > is looking after Sugarizer.  Are there any other developers who
> are
> > maintainers?
> >
> > --
> > James Cameron
> > [3]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> > ___
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > [4]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > [5]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >
> > ___
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > [6]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > [7]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >
> > --
> > Walter Bender
> > Sugar Labs
> > [8]http://www.sugarlabs.org
> > [9]
> >
> > References:
> >
> > [1] mailto:rrbot...@gmail.com
> > [2] mailto:qu...@laptop.org
> > [3] http://quozl.netrek.org/
> > [4] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > [5] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> > [6] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > [7] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> > [8] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> > [9] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
>
> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.netrek.org/
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>


-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Abandoned or orphaned activities

[James Cameron]

Thanks.  So the list looks like;

# Walter Bender

* Music Blocks,
* Turtle Blocks JS,

# Rahul Bothra

* CowBulls,
* Flappy,
* Cedit,
* Polari,

# James Cameron

* Abacus,
* Browse (master),
* Browse (fedora 18 - webkit - v157.x),
* Calculator,
* Chart,
* Chat,
* Clock,
* Develop,
* Distance,
* Finance,
* Find Words,
* Fototoon,
* Fraction Bounce,
* Gears,
* GetBooks,
* Help,
* ImageViewer,
* Implode,
* Jukebox,
* Labyrinth,
* Letters,
* Log,
* Maze,
* Measure,
* Memorize,
* Moon (master),
* Moon (fedora 18 - gtk2 - v17.x),
* MusicKeyboard (master),
* MusicKeyboard (fedora 18 - csound - v8.x),
* Paint,
* Physics,
* Pippy,
* Poll,
* Portfolio,
* Read (master),
* Read (fedora 18 - webkit - v118.x),
* Record (master),
* Record (fedora 18 - gstreamer - v10x),
* SimpleEnglishWikipedia,
* Speak,
* StopWatch,
* Story,
* Terminal,
* TurtleBlocks,
* Words,
* Write,

On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 09:04:50AM -0500, Walter Bender wrote:
> I am actively maintaining Music Blocks and Turtle Blocks JS.
> I just haven't had the bandwidth to do much beyond that of late. That said, I
> am happy to kibbutz on any of the activities which I used to maintain.
> 
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 3:11 AM Rahul Bothra <[1]rrbot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> *
> I am maintaining CowBulls and Flappy.
> 
> I can take up cedit and Polari
> 
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 12:53 PM James Cameron <[2]qu...@laptop.org> 
> wrote:
> 
> Once we had a list of abandoned activities, where the maintainer is
> missing in action, not doing testing or releasing.
> 
> Now, I propose the inverse; a list of activities with a maintainer
> testing and releasing.  It will be easier to maintain that list.
> 
> For myself, each of the Fructose activities, each of the activities we
> ship on OLPC OS.  I know Walter is looking after Music Blocks.  Lionel
> is looking after Sugarizer.  Are there any other developers who are
> maintainers?
> 
> --
> James Cameron
> [3]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> [4]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> [5]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> 
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> [6]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> [7]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> 
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> [8]http://www.sugarlabs.org
> [9]
> 
> References:
> 
> [1] mailto:rrbot...@gmail.com
> [2] mailto:qu...@laptop.org
> [3] http://quozl.netrek.org/
> [4] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> [5] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> [6] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> [7] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> [8] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> [9] http://www.sugarlabs.org/

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestion on moving from IRC to Gitter

[Samson Goddy]

Hello Rahul,

 Have you looked at Zulip? They host open source organization completely
free and they are 100% open source and still have same platform as Slack,
with a lot of access to integrate bots and even GitHub notifications.

Easy to relate with. It has IOS, MAC OSX, Android, Windows and Linux
supported. Also on browser, however it is something that the community
needs to agree on.

Moving from IRC is a big step.

https://zulipchat.com


Regards

On Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 9:18 AM Rahul Bothra  I am proposing a change in the communication medium from IRC to Gitter.
> I've made a Gitter Community at https://gitter.im/Sugar-Labs, for people
> to try it out. In case people don't like the change, we can shut it down
> and stick to IRC.
>
> Following are my reasons for the change;
>
> New users can't see the past conversations, which is useful at times
>
> Many active contributors don't run an all time online instance,
> and can't read unresolved doubts asked when they were offline
>
> If a new user doesn't get a response for some time, he tends to
> quit IRC (observation) and it's difficult to look him up and resolve
> his query. This *might *lead to contributors thinking that the org is i
> nactive
>
> Since we are diverse, we can use different channels for each;
> Sugar, Sugarizer, Music Blocks, Design, Website.
> This will make discussions more organised and easy to look up
> Implementing this on IRC could increase problems of inactivity
> even more.
>
> D. Joe gave a reason[1] against the switch that every other chat
> systems has their own advantages.
> I don't mind using any chat system which can curb these issues.
>
> I am now comfortable in using IRC because:
>  - I *somewhat* understood how it works, but it took time to figure out
>  - I now know at what time might a contributor come online,
>but it took time to figure out
>  - I now know which contributor works on what, so I can ask via mail,
>if IRC doesn't help, but it took time to figure out
>
> There are obvious workarounds for all these, but then it's better if new
> contributors devote 'time to figure out' code instead ;-)
>
> [1]:
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2018-February/055064.html
>
> ___
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> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestion on moving from IRC to Gitter

[Shiv]

Gitter uses your Twitter or GitHub username and avatar. You don’t set up
and maintain a new identity on Gitter. You use your existing one. In a
sense it looks like an extension of GitHub or Twitter, like you already
have an account on Gitter and you just start using it. When your read
discussions on Gitter it doesn’t look like posted by Gitter users but by
Twitter/GitHub users.
I agree with switching from IRC to Gitter.

On Sun, 20 Jan 2019 at 17:22, Sumit Srivastava 
wrote:

> +1 for Gitter over IRC given the recent spam tackling measures taken by
> freenode.
>
> Other advantages have already been mentioned, I raised this concern over
> mailing list too.
>
> It's high time we consider a switch.
>
> Regards
> Sumit Srivastava
>
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2019, 5:58 pm Vipul Gupta, 
> wrote:
>
>> I do agree with Rahul over the change on communication mediums. This
>> discussion rose a bit at the start of GSoC 2018 as well, with many fellow
>> contributors who wanted to apply to Sugar Labs didn't because they could
>> get a response. And yes, its absolutely okay for a time to have no people
>> in the room to help. But with Gitter's ability to hold conversations, have
>> plugins for GitHub and make rooms. We should definitely give it a shot to
>> see how it pays off in the long run.
>>
>> The learning curve with IRC does instill a thing of learning or two among
>> all of us. I for one asked my questions on IRC after thoroughly searching
>> the web and all the resources I have. Since I always knew the importance
>> of  "Software is free. Time is not." Things taking time to figure out, is
>> good. But not when its spent on communication mediums by prospective
>> contributors. They just want to start contributing. And fast. I think
>> Gitter can help here.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 1:48 PM Rahul Bothra  wrote:
>>
>>> I am proposing a change in the communication medium from IRC to Gitter.
>>> I've made a Gitter Community at https://gitter.im/Sugar-Labs, for
>>> people to try it out. In case people don't like the change, we can shut it
>>> down and stick to IRC.
>>>
>>> Following are my reasons for the change;
>>>
>>> New users can't see the past conversations, which is useful at times
>>>
>>> Many active contributors don't run an all time online instance,
>>> and can't read unresolved doubts asked when they were offline
>>>
>>> If a new user doesn't get a response for some time, he tends to
>>> quit IRC (observation) and it's difficult to look him up and resolve
>>> his query. This *might *lead to contributors thinking that the org is i
>>> nactive
>>>
>>> Since we are diverse, we can use different channels for each;
>>> Sugar, Sugarizer, Music Blocks, Design, Website.
>>> This will make discussions more organised and easy to look up
>>> Implementing this on IRC could increase problems of inactivity
>>> even more.
>>>
>>> D. Joe gave a reason[1] against the switch that every other chat
>>> systems has their own advantages.
>>> I don't mind using any chat system which can curb these issues.
>>>
>>> I am now comfortable in using IRC because:
>>>  - I *somewhat* understood how it works, but it took time to figure out
>>>  - I now know at what time might a contributor come online,
>>>but it took time to figure out
>>>  - I now know which contributor works on what, so I can ask via mail,
>>>if IRC doesn't help, but it took time to figure out
>>>
>>> There are obvious workarounds for all these, but then it's better if new
>>> contributors devote 'time to figure out' code instead ;-)
>>>
>>> [1]:
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2018-February/055064.html
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cordially,
>> Vipul Gupta
>> Mixster  | Github
>> 
>> ___
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>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
> ___
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestion on moving from IRC to Gitter

[Sumit Srivastava]

+1 for Gitter over IRC given the recent spam tackling measures taken by
freenode.

Other advantages have already been mentioned, I raised this concern over
mailing list too.

It's high time we consider a switch.

Regards
Sumit Srivastava

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019, 5:58 pm Vipul Gupta,  wrote:

> I do agree with Rahul over the change on communication mediums. This
> discussion rose a bit at the start of GSoC 2018 as well, with many fellow
> contributors who wanted to apply to Sugar Labs didn't because they could
> get a response. And yes, its absolutely okay for a time to have no people
> in the room to help. But with Gitter's ability to hold conversations, have
> plugins for GitHub and make rooms. We should definitely give it a shot to
> see how it pays off in the long run.
>
> The learning curve with IRC does instill a thing of learning or two among
> all of us. I for one asked my questions on IRC after thoroughly searching
> the web and all the resources I have. Since I always knew the importance
> of  "Software is free. Time is not." Things taking time to figure out, is
> good. But not when its spent on communication mediums by prospective
> contributors. They just want to start contributing. And fast. I think
> Gitter can help here.
>
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 1:48 PM Rahul Bothra  wrote:
>
>> I am proposing a change in the communication medium from IRC to Gitter.
>> I've made a Gitter Community at https://gitter.im/Sugar-Labs, for people
>> to try it out. In case people don't like the change, we can shut it down
>> and stick to IRC.
>>
>> Following are my reasons for the change;
>>
>> New users can't see the past conversations, which is useful at times
>>
>> Many active contributors don't run an all time online instance,
>> and can't read unresolved doubts asked when they were offline
>>
>> If a new user doesn't get a response for some time, he tends to
>> quit IRC (observation) and it's difficult to look him up and resolve
>> his query. This *might *lead to contributors thinking that the org is i
>> nactive
>>
>> Since we are diverse, we can use different channels for each;
>> Sugar, Sugarizer, Music Blocks, Design, Website.
>> This will make discussions more organised and easy to look up
>> Implementing this on IRC could increase problems of inactivity
>> even more.
>>
>> D. Joe gave a reason[1] against the switch that every other chat
>> systems has their own advantages.
>> I don't mind using any chat system which can curb these issues.
>>
>> I am now comfortable in using IRC because:
>>  - I *somewhat* understood how it works, but it took time to figure out
>>  - I now know at what time might a contributor come online,
>>but it took time to figure out
>>  - I now know which contributor works on what, so I can ask via mail,
>>if IRC doesn't help, but it took time to figure out
>>
>> There are obvious workarounds for all these, but then it's better if new
>> contributors devote 'time to figure out' code instead ;-)
>>
>> [1]:
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2018-February/055064.html
>>
>> ___
>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>
>
> --
> Cordially,
> Vipul Gupta
> Mixster  | Github
> 
> ___
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>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestion on moving from IRC to Gitter

[Sumit Srivastava]

Here's a relevant discussion regarding adoption Gitter I started about 11
months ago:

https://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2018-February/055061.html


Here are other relevant discussions:

http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2017-September/054825.html

and here:

https://github.com/hylang/hy/issues/1357#issuecomment-331543249

I'd still prefer Gitter, having used most alternatives to IRC, and the IRC
itself.

Regards
Sumit Srivastava

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019, 5:58 pm Vipul Gupta,  wrote:

> I do agree with Rahul over the change on communication mediums. This
> discussion rose a bit at the start of GSoC 2018 as well, with many fellow
> contributors who wanted to apply to Sugar Labs didn't because they could
> get a response. And yes, its absolutely okay for a time to have no people
> in the room to help. But with Gitter's ability to hold conversations, have
> plugins for GitHub and make rooms. We should definitely give it a shot to
> see how it pays off in the long run.
>
> The learning curve with IRC does instill a thing of learning or two among
> all of us. I for one asked my questions on IRC after thoroughly searching
> the web and all the resources I have. Since I always knew the importance
> of  "Software is free. Time is not." Things taking time to figure out, is
> good. But not when its spent on communication mediums by prospective
> contributors. They just want to start contributing. And fast. I think
> Gitter can help here.
>
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 1:48 PM Rahul Bothra  wrote:
>
>> I am proposing a change in the communication medium from IRC to Gitter.
>> I've made a Gitter Community at https://gitter.im/Sugar-Labs, for people
>> to try it out. In case people don't like the change, we can shut it down
>> and stick to IRC.
>>
>> Following are my reasons for the change;
>>
>> New users can't see the past conversations, which is useful at times
>>
>> Many active contributors don't run an all time online instance,
>> and can't read unresolved doubts asked when they were offline
>>
>> If a new user doesn't get a response for some time, he tends to
>> quit IRC (observation) and it's difficult to look him up and resolve
>> his query. This *might *lead to contributors thinking that the org is i
>> nactive
>>
>> Since we are diverse, we can use different channels for each;
>> Sugar, Sugarizer, Music Blocks, Design, Website.
>> This will make discussions more organised and easy to look up
>> Implementing this on IRC could increase problems of inactivity
>> even more.
>>
>> D. Joe gave a reason[1] against the switch that every other chat
>> systems has their own advantages.
>> I don't mind using any chat system which can curb these issues.
>>
>> I am now comfortable in using IRC because:
>>  - I *somewhat* understood how it works, but it took time to figure out
>>  - I now know at what time might a contributor come online,
>>but it took time to figure out
>>  - I now know which contributor works on what, so I can ask via mail,
>>if IRC doesn't help, but it took time to figure out
>>
>> There are obvious workarounds for all these, but then it's better if new
>> contributors devote 'time to figure out' code instead ;-)
>>
>> [1]:
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2018-February/055064.html
>>
>> ___
>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>
>
> --
> Cordially,
> Vipul Gupta
> Mixster  | Github
> 
> ___
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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSOC 2019 Student

[Shiv]

Hey,
 I saw ideas page and interested in some of those.Shall I get started
on fixing issues in that idea? or first I should discuss with mentors on
that project?

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 at 11:24, James Cameron  wrote:

> Welcome,
>
> As chair of the board; Sugar Labs has decided to apply for Google
> Summer fo Code 2019, and once our application has been submitted we
> will wait in hope for Google to select us.
>
> As for myself;
>
> You can get started however you like.  Don't wait for us to explain,
> and don't expect us to set specific tasks to get started with.  If
> someone does that to you, check that others think the task should be
> done.
>
> https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC has some ideas for projects we are
> working to define better.  You are welcome to review and offer comments.
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 05:39:46PM +0530, Shiv Pratap Singh wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I am undergraduate student in computer science.I find myself good
> with
> > skills required to contribute in the projects in your organization.
> > I will be applying as GSOC student for the organization by developing
> > features.
> > How can I get started ? Just to confirm if this organization is
> going to
> > participate in upcoming GSOC.Please let me know where can I find all
> details to
> > get started.
> > Thank You!
>
> > ___
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>
> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestion on moving from IRC to Gitter

[Sumit Srivastava]

Here's a relevant discussion regarding adoption Gitter I started about 11
months ago:

https://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2018-February/055061.html


Here are other relevant discussions:

http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2017-September/054825.html

and here:

https://github.com/hylang/hy/issues/1357#issuecomment-331543249

Regards
Sumit Srivastava

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019, 7:08 pm Sumit Srivastava, 
wrote:

> +1 for Gitter over IRC given the recent spam tackling measures taken by
> freenode.
>
> Other advantages have already been mentioned, I raised this concern over
> mailing list too.
>
> It's high time we consider a switch.
>
> Regards
> Sumit Srivastava
>
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2019, 5:58 pm Vipul Gupta, 
> wrote:
>
>> I do agree with Rahul over the change on communication mediums. This
>> discussion rose a bit at the start of GSoC 2018 as well, with many fellow
>> contributors who wanted to apply to Sugar Labs didn't because they could
>> get a response. And yes, its absolutely okay for a time to have no people
>> in the room to help. But with Gitter's ability to hold conversations, have
>> plugins for GitHub and make rooms. We should definitely give it a shot to
>> see how it pays off in the long run.
>>
>> The learning curve with IRC does instill a thing of learning or two among
>> all of us. I for one asked my questions on IRC after thoroughly searching
>> the web and all the resources I have. Since I always knew the importance
>> of  "Software is free. Time is not." Things taking time to figure out, is
>> good. But not when its spent on communication mediums by prospective
>> contributors. They just want to start contributing. And fast. I think
>> Gitter can help here.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 1:48 PM Rahul Bothra  wrote:
>>
>>> I am proposing a change in the communication medium from IRC to Gitter.
>>> I've made a Gitter Community at https://gitter.im/Sugar-Labs, for
>>> people to try it out. In case people don't like the change, we can shut it
>>> down and stick to IRC.
>>>
>>> Following are my reasons for the change;
>>>
>>> New users can't see the past conversations, which is useful at times
>>>
>>> Many active contributors don't run an all time online instance,
>>> and can't read unresolved doubts asked when they were offline
>>>
>>> If a new user doesn't get a response for some time, he tends to
>>> quit IRC (observation) and it's difficult to look him up and resolve
>>> his query. This *might *lead to contributors thinking that the org is i
>>> nactive
>>>
>>> Since we are diverse, we can use different channels for each;
>>> Sugar, Sugarizer, Music Blocks, Design, Website.
>>> This will make discussions more organised and easy to look up
>>> Implementing this on IRC could increase problems of inactivity
>>> even more.
>>>
>>> D. Joe gave a reason[1] against the switch that every other chat
>>> systems has their own advantages.
>>> I don't mind using any chat system which can curb these issues.
>>>
>>> I am now comfortable in using IRC because:
>>>  - I *somewhat* understood how it works, but it took time to figure out
>>>  - I now know at what time might a contributor come online,
>>>but it took time to figure out
>>>  - I now know which contributor works on what, so I can ask via mail,
>>>if IRC doesn't help, but it took time to figure out
>>>
>>> There are obvious workarounds for all these, but then it's better if new
>>> contributors devote 'time to figure out' code instead ;-)
>>>
>>> [1]:
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2018-February/055064.html
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cordially,
>> Vipul Gupta
>> Mixster  | Github
>> 
>> ___
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>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC project ideas

[Tony Anderson]

This project was not completed given the limited time available to GSOC 
projects. It fell victim to the common problem of expanding the goals 
beyond the available resources. Currently I believe Jupyter Notebook is 
a better solution if it can be added to Sugar.


Tony

On 1/18/19 7:40 AM, James Cameron wrote:

G'day Utkarsh,

Thanks, very interesting.  Would you like the activity to be hosted at
Sugar Labs?  At the moment you have it in your own profile.  I'm not
surprised I'd forgotten all about it, and perhaps others had too.

I note there are no releases tagged and no bundle available from
activities.sugarlabs.org; do you plan anything like that?  Is it ready?

On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 05:29:06PM +0530, utkarsh Dhawan wrote:

Hi James,

Web Confusion was an activity part of GSOC 2015. You can find the reference
here [1] the project was developed by me and Vibhor under the mentorship of
Tony. The activity basically revolves around interactive tasks divided into
various levels. You can find an example in the attachment below.

[1] [1]https://github.com/crusher95/webconfusion

Thanking You,
Utkarsh Dhawan
(Developer/Student)

Note:Please Consider The environment before printing.

On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 1:20 PM James Cameron <[2]qu...@laptop.org> wrote:

 G'day Utkarsh,

 What can you tell us about this Web Confusion project?  I've searched
 and I can't it.

 We have in Sugarizer the activities Etoys, Jappy, Scratch, and Turtle
 Blocks.  We have in Sugar also the activities Pippy, Develop, and
 PyDebug.  All are offline capable.

 We also have Music Blocks, as a web app.  There are also many other
 web apps for teaching children how to code.  All are online capable.

 Or do you mean adding the Turtle Confusion shape challenges to the
 Turtle Blocks JavaScript activity?  I think they are already there,
 no?

 On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 11:50:01AM +0530, utkarsh Dhawan wrote:
 > Hi,
 >
 > Is the Web Confusion project still in the pipeline? Since I think it was
 an
 > amazing project to teach young kids about programming languages at an
 early
 > stage. Also I think the scope for the same can be increased to other
 languages
 > like python.
 >
 > Thanking You,
 > Utkarsh Dhawan
 > (Developer/Student)
 >
 > Note:Please Consider The environment before printing.
 >
 > On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 6:40 AM Walter Bender <[1][3]
 walter.ben...@gmail.com>
 > wrote:
 >
 >     We have some ideas contributed by Rahul and myself. But nothing from
 anyone
 >     else. Please add your ideas here [1] this week as organization
 applications
 >     are due soon.
 >
 >     regards.
 >
 >     -walter
 >
 >     [1] [2][4]https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/blob/master/Ideas-2019.md
 >     --
 >     Walter Bender
 >     Sugar Labs
 >     [3][5]http://www.sugarlabs.org
 >     [4]
 >     ___
 >     Sugar-devel mailing list
 >     [5][6]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
 >     [6][7]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
 >
 > References:
 >
 > [1] mailto:[8]walter.ben...@gmail.com
 > [2] [9]https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/blob/master/Ideas-2019.md
 > [3] [10]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
 > [4] [11]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
 > [5] mailto:[12]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
 > [6] [13]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

 > ___
 > Sugar-devel mailing list
 > [14]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
 > [15]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

 --
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 [16]http://quozl.netrek.org/
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 [17]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
 [18]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

References:

[1] https://github.com/crusher95/webconfusion
[2] mailto:qu...@laptop.org
[3] mailto:walter.ben...@gmail.com
[4] https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/blob/master/Ideas-2019.md
[5] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
[6] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[7] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[8] mailto:walter.ben...@gmail.com
[9] https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/blob/master/Ideas-2019.md
[10] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
[11] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
[12] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[13] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[14] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[15] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[16] http://quozl.netrek.org/
[17] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[18] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel





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