Re: [Sugar-devel] Getting Journal entries off an XO at the end of a project?

2012-01-17 Thread David Van Assche
The issue i see here is backing up work so its accesible to all oses not
just linux. Its definetly a fair point as most current edu projects are iOS
based,sadly... but such is the state of the world. Guess well have to wait
for android to make the visible change.
On Jan 17, 2012 12:39 PM, Sascha Silbe si...@activitycentral.com wrote:

 Excerpts from Christoph Derndorfer's message of 2012-01-13 19:56:51 +0100:

  (a) Have the pupils copy relevant files they want to keep to USB drives
 via
  the Journal or the Sugar commander Activity

  (b) Ask them to favorite things they want to keep in the Journal and then
  run a script that copies all of these entries to a USB drive or possibly
  even a network share

 Given that you're still running Sugar 0.82, one of these is probably the
 best option (in addition to doing a full backup, as explained in my
 previous mail).

 Whether the data file is usable outside of Sugar (i.e. in a standard
 format) depends on each activity.

 Writing a script that dumps all data files of starred entries is pretty
 straightforward if you borrow some functions from jarabe.journal.model
 (= GPLv2+). You _will_ loose the metadata (description, tags, etc.) in
 any case: Even when using the UI to write the files, the metadata isn't
 in a format recognised by any other system.


 The script would look something like this:

 === snip ===
 #!/usr/bin/env python
 # License: GPL version 3
 import os
 import shutil

 from sugar import mime
 from sugar.datastore import datastore


 [copy get_file_name() and get_unique_file_name() from
 src/jarabe/journal/model.py]


 mount_point = '/media/CHERRY_TREE'
 for entry in datastore.find({'keep': '1'})[0]:
title = entry.metadata.get('title') or 'Untitled'
mime_type = entry.metadata.get('mime_type')
target_name = get_unique_file_name(mount_point,
   get_file_name(title, mime_type))
target_path = os.path.join(mount_point, target_name)
shutil.copyfile(entry.file_path, target_path)
entry.destroy()

 === snip ===

 Untested on Sugar 0.82. Backup/Restore access the data store directly
 via D-Bus rather than through sugar.datastore.datastore, so I don't know
 if the API changed in subtle ways; a quick check confirmed that all of
 the functions imported (not copied) above were available in Sugar
 0.82.0.

 Sascha

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Re: [Sugar-devel] badges for collaborative activities

2011-12-13 Thread David Van Assche
How much has been done in terms of centralising the collaborative aspects
of applications by using the latest and greatest innovations to telepathy,
which surely must by now have many many hooks to allow for the funkiest of
ways to quickly and easily integrate collaborative sessions.
I suppose the main problem is still finding the creative aspects of this,
ie... what is the best way for students to share/collaborate an activity,
and should that activity then even collaborate across activites with others.
I took quite a stab at this a year or so ago, but got boggled down in the
serious intricacies of telepathy and the way it fits with dbus and how to
make the communication of elements be they on the same computer or across a
network easy to understand with examples of implementation. The examples
back when I was looking (tic tac toe was one) were so complex for such a
simple application that it scared me away completely. I wanted to
collaboratively create a quiz based app which would allow a class to take
turns answering questions, and then the program could keep track of how
well students where doing based on subject/timing/spelling, or whatever
else the program was supposed to help students with.

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 7:26 PM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@cscott.net wrote:

 I was playing with Sugar collaboration between my XO-1.75 and my
 crazy-nephew's XO-1.5 over the weekend.  We wanted to play together,
 but it was hard to find which activities would let us do so.

 What if we added a small badge (perhaps the ring of dots used to
 switch an activity from 'private' to 'shared') to activities on the
 home screen to indicate that they support collaboration?  That would
 make it easy to tell which activities allow us to play together.
  --scott

 ps. Typing Turtle is a great new activity which I hadn't seen before
 -- but it doesn't support collaboration.  What if we could play the
 balloon-popping game together, with the first person to type the word
 getting points for popping the balloon?

 --
  ( http://cscott.net/ )
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Re: [Sugar-devel] badges for collaborative activities

2011-12-13 Thread David Van Assche
Yeah, I'm sorry if it came across that way, its just that I've got a sort
of halted project which I really want to make collaborative, but am unsure
how to move forward and include... I guess I was asking for some pointers
towards really good documentation to make this a reality.

kind regards,
David

On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 7:35 PM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@cscott.net wrote:

 I'm trying not to open the can of worms which is how should we best
 implement collaboration.  In this thread, let's just concentrate on
 how do we discover collaborative activities when we're playing with
 our friends?
   --scott

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Re: [Sugar-devel] badges for collaborative activities

2011-12-13 Thread David Van Assche
Played with that, wasnt quite what I was looking for. It basically skins an
app (lets say a gtk app) and makes it look like its a part of sugar... but
it doesn't really gie u access to how the collaborative functions work...

but its a good step for quickly porting apps to sugar sure

kind regards,
David

On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 7:53 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz 
bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:

 On 12/13/2011 01:37 PM, David Van Assche wrote:
  I've got a sort
  of halted project which I really want to make collaborative, but am
 unsure
  how to move forward and include... I guess I was asking for some pointers
  towards really good documentation to make this a reality.

 You might like

 http://bemasc.net/~bens/groupthink/

 a library I wrote for Sugar-GSoC 2009 that (under some circumstances)
 makes it easier to write collaborative python activities.  It's currently
 used by Pippy, Stopwatch, and possibly a few other things.


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Re: [Sugar-devel] badges for collaborative activities

2011-12-13 Thread David Van Assche
you're right, confused the 2.. groupthink was indeed promising I was
thinking about sugarize :-) I'll delve deeper into groupthink... IF I
understand enough of it before it makes my head explode...

kind regards,
David

On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz 
bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:

 On 12/13/2011 01:57 PM, David Van Assche wrote:
  Played with that, wasnt quite what I was looking for. It basically skins
  an app (lets say a gtk app) and makes it look like its a part of sugar...
  but it doesn't really gie u access to how the collaborative functions
 work...

 Uhh, nope.  Maybe you're thinking of Sugarize?

 (as documented on
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Running_Linux_Applications_Under_Sugar)

 Groupthink is a python module for writing collaborative Activities.  It
 works by providing data structures that automatically share themselves
 over the Tubes, synchronize their state, and even serialize to disk.  No
 relation to Sugarize.

 --Ben


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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Dextrose] Proxy Control Panel (Was: New Dextrose-3...)

2011-11-30 Thread David Van Assche
Have you guys taken a look at total parent control... its an all in one gui
that controls dansguardian, firehol, and squid, and is maintained quite
heavily by many side projects apart from canonical:

https://launchpad.net/webcontentcontrol

Its worth a look

kind regards,
David van assche

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Frederick Grose fgr...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Sameer Verma sve...@sfsu.edu wrote:

 On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@sugarlabs.org
 wrote:
  On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 20:14 +, Aleksey Lim wrote:
 {...}

  If someone had the time to work on UI cleanups, I'd prefer to see both
  the Network and Modem control panels be replaced by options directly
  associated with the objects they manipulate:
 
   - a radio-off checkbox in the popup menu of the wifi device
 

 While we are at it, I think a radio button is a better choice for
 radio on/off instead of the check box. I have a hard time remembering
 what happens when you check the box :-)

 Sameer


 I find the wording around the box contributes to uncertainty about its
 action:

 Wireless

  Turn off the wireless radio to save battery life

  □  Radio

  Discard network history if you have
  trouble connecting to the network

  (Discard network history)

 The 'Discard network history' button is always the affirmative action for
 the preceding advisory.  The 'Turn off' advisory for the Radio check box is
 only similarly aligned when the box is checked (otherwise, one might wonder
 does it 'Turn off' or 'Turn on' the radio).

   --Fred

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Running sugar through PXE

2011-11-05 Thread David Van Assche
Hi there,
   I've always been a serious advocate of runing sugar through pxe for a
million reasons..

For a time I was employed for working on the maco managmenet side of
sugar... ie distributing it... pxe... seemed obvious, fast, and incredibly
tested. I am also one of the lead guys workiin on LTSP which turns any old
computer into a thin client runninig the latest distro (ubuntu, fedora, and
debian have done most work in that area) but its amazing stufff... u can
run a thin client as just that, thin, using maybe 30mb ram, or fat 1 gig
pllus... the server takes care of everything from whcih programs are being
run, what machines and who are being monitored and of course the user DB,
allowing a user to login froom anywher and get their desktop,, fat or thin,
or anything in between

It sounds a bit like profiling and its being used like that a bit, but
there is also sabayon, which is  a real visual profiler which is awsome,
especially during exam times... In any case I've digressed. I wrote an
article which is really aged now on  nubae.com. I'll do an update using
pinguyos as the base distro (as it just rocks almost as miuch as osx, if u
like that kind of thing.)
Anyway, the more recent articles with lots of engineering style writing is
here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Dextrose/Server

I was unfortunately unable to bring my monster to life, but fully intend
to, when I have a momenta


U'll find the sugar crowd oddly fearful of PXE and how much time it can
save, not to mention the tons of broken disks and sticks but its a
battle that will be won when proof of concept is shown at various points in
time and space..

kind ragards,
David Van Assche

P.S. If you are game, I would love a co-driver on this... working it alone
is boring, tiring, and somewhat unmotivated...

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Mathieu Jobin somek...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi there,

 I am new to sugar. I set it up so i can boot the image through PXE. The
 initial boot phase works. But it fails while trying to mount the root fs.

 On the live CD it is set as root=live:LABEL=iso-filename or something
 similar. But the CD is not in the drive. So that points no where.

 I tried set it up to root=/dev/null like the Slitaz distro is doing. A
 distro I am also booting through PXE.

 I tried setting up to mount a NFS share on the LAN. But root nfs doesn't
 seems supported.

 Before getting into rebuilding the Sugar image. I was wondering if there
 is something that could work out of the box?

 Thanks


 Sent from my Phone.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Tux Paint - Save and new

2011-10-23 Thread David Van Assche
Can it be ported to python? just a quesstion, maybe a stupid one

David

On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Aleksey Lim
alsr...@activitycentral.org wrote:
 On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 09:12:31PM +, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn wrote:


 This was the comments from an Uruguayab teacher..
 I tell you why it is important for teachers to have the option within the 
 program.
        When the teacher proposes to use will likely be to put together a 
 sequence of something, having to close the program and reopen it for every 
 film set, is somewhat cumbersome, especially with children in the early 
 stages (initial, 1 and 2).
        Other: is very useful image file of the seals, especially when there 
 are difficult to get them on the internet connection to be used in creating 
 games of memory, for example, and any other proposal in which images are 
 needed, especially if we consider that many of these are photos.
        Another advantage: the sheets are created within the program and open 
 the option can be viewed all at once, allowing you to quickly eliminate 
 those that do not serve us.
        Surely other teachers on the list you can add some more ...
 So, it's very good that can be saved in the journal and take pictures of him 
 but would also be good to have the option to slide within the program.
       Last, I think what is more complicated obstacle of having to always 
 open new business from home.
 Viewed from the standpoint of you, developers, avoid useless files
 Viewed from the perspective of teachers, we complicate our lives, we risk 
 losing ongoing work in process if you do not remember to tell children
 marked start again when it comes to class assignments.
       It would be very interesting that we could ever make the proper 
 connection and teacher developers to implement changes that are really 
 useful for classroom use.
 I add another tip. My daughter draws very well and loves to draw. With 10 
 years I will not sit or Inkscape use The Gimp, I feel that use Tuxpaint. 
 Okay, it's for his age, and really nice stuff out. But ups! draw something 
 new means losing the previous job. Is that fair? No. No one uses a single 
 sheet to draw, using multiple, and nobody thinks you delete a picture but 
 perfect for another. It makes no sense.
 But I ask you a child has no right to be creative, draw a long and well? Why 
 assume a priori that children draw more or less, to hang out and you're not 
 cleared to occupy space?
 That is the other utility Tuxpaint slides.
 And please do not tell me that there is another program to do the same. 
 Children are not graphic designers! They'll learn to use other programs.
 Resuming: she think that the slides view is necessary, maintenance the 
 integration with the jounal...
 But make it is can be complicated, or not optimized function... A slow 
 process:
 for each entry in the journal...   if it's an image...      scale to show..  
     show in the tuxpaint

 Tux Paint will behave like regular activity but preserving useful features 
 like Load/New.
 I think that is good idea..
 Another activitys have and dialog.. You can re-use it.. Like the Read 
 activity...

 hehe, not sure. TuxPaint is written in C.

 Though, it is more a problem w/ time, I CCed Rafael who started
 something, afaik. If there are other people who can help w/ adding
 New/Open startup dialog (at the end, it shouldn't be hard, the dialog is
 already importanted in Tuxpaint, the only thing that is needed is
 popping it up on startup).

 --
 Aleksey
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [PATCH sugar] Anly approve and not handle channels in the shell, part of OLPC #10738

2011-04-14 Thread David Van Assche
awsome stuff on all the telepathy related stuff... I'm no expert, but looks
like things became more homologised and is now used more in line with the
way empathy and others run under gnome to use telepathy... Maybe I'm reading
too much into this, but does this effectively mean that we can now
communicate with any telepathy based client on other systems from a sugar
based system?

Perhaps you could explain how this effects activity sharing across
activities on other oses (say chat client on gnome with sugar chat?)

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 7:42 PM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.dewrote:

 We only approve channels in the shell and do not claim to handle them
 anymore. The handling is now done by the activity (toolkit patch).
 More info about approving and handling of channels can be found at [1].

 This patch does as well only handle sugar activity invitations, invitations
 from non-sugar clients will be handled in a separate patch.

 [1]
 http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/doc/book/sect.channel-dispatcher.clients.html

 Signed-off-by: Simon Schampijer si...@laptop.org
 ---
  src/jarabe/model/telepathyclient.py |   21 -
  1 files changed, 16 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-)

 diff --git a/src/jarabe/model/telepathyclient.py
 b/src/jarabe/model/telepathyclient.py
 index c6fbac1..cea8693 100644
 --- a/src/jarabe/model/telepathyclient.py
 +++ b/src/jarabe/model/telepathyclient.py
 @@ -19,11 +19,16 @@ import logging
  import dbus
  from dbus import PROPERTIES_IFACE
  from telepathy.interfaces import CLIENT, \
 + CHANNEL, \
 + CHANNEL_TYPE_TEXT, \
  CLIENT_APPROVER, \
  CLIENT_HANDLER, \
  CLIENT_INTERFACE_REQUESTS
  from telepathy.server import DBusProperties

 +from telepathy.constants import CONNECTION_HANDLE_TYPE_CONTACT
 +from telepathy.constants import CONNECTION_HANDLE_TYPE_ROOM
 +
  from sugar import dispatch


 @@ -48,9 +53,6 @@ class TelepathyClient(dbus.service.Object,
 DBusProperties):
 self._implement_property_get(CLIENT, {
 'Interfaces': lambda: list(self._interfaces),
   })
 -self._implement_property_get(CLIENT_HANDLER, {
 -'HandlerChannelFilter': self.__get_filters_cb,
 -  })
 self._implement_property_get(CLIENT_APPROVER, {
 'ApproverChannelFilter': self.__get_filters_cb,
   })
 @@ -60,8 +62,17 @@ class TelepathyClient(dbus.service.Object,
 DBusProperties):

 def __get_filters_cb(self):
 logging.debug('__get_filters_cb')
 -filter_dict = dbus.Dictionary({}, signature='sv')
 -return dbus.Array([filter_dict], signature='a{sv}')
 +
 +filt = {
 +CHANNEL + '.ChannelType': CHANNEL_TYPE_TEXT,
 +CHANNEL + '.TargetHandleType': CONNECTION_HANDLE_TYPE_ROOM,
 +}
 +filter_dict = dbus.Dictionary(filt, signature='sv')
 +filters = dbus.Array([filter_dict], signature='a{sv}')
 +
 +logging.debug('__get_filters_cb %r', filters)
 +
 +return filters

 @dbus.service.method(dbus_interface=CLIENT_HANDLER,
  in_signature='ooa(oa{sv})aota{sv}',
 out_signature='')
 --
 1.7.4

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Dextrose] [AC Update] We are what we do.

2011-04-02 Thread David Van Assche
The more info the better... information shouldn't kill people.
(read shouldn't)

David Van Assche

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:05 AM, NoiseEHC noise...@freemail.hu wrote:

 About pane has a psychological effect, it provides recognition and
 maybe a sense of ownership for developers and mantainers. I will
 propose it on sugar-devel and the HIG once I've implemented a design.
 Also it gives a starting point for eventually getting involved in the
 development and improvement of each activity.

 The idea of an About dialog (or menu) already came up on sugar-devel,
 not long ago. IIRC, Gary Martin was quite opposed to increasing UI
 clutter with non-essential information.

 Perhaps we could still define a few meta-tags for activity.info and
 _not_ display them in the UI at all? They would still be easy to find
 for developers.

 You can show this info in view source mode and in the journal.

 Or perhaps in the Detail View in the Journal, where we already show
 things like mime-type? And perhaps we could even add the ability to
 launch Browse from the Detail View to go to the activity's homepage?

 -walter


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Re: [Sugar-devel] New IRC bot

2010-09-05 Thread David Van Assche
funny, I offered and set this up about a year ago, and my bot got banned
from the channel because people were paranoid their conversations were being
recorded...

(grin/lol)

D

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 2:57 AM, Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org wrote:

 Hi all,

 FIY, To keep IRC logs, I've setup IRC bot - supybot[1]. It supports many
 useful plugins[2] including meetings (so, we can replace meetbot with
 more powerful one).

 Full irc logs and meeting logs will be stored on [4]
 (each channel has link to meetings page).

 [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/supybot/
 [2] http://ubottu.com/stdin/supydocs/plugins.html
 [3] http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html
 [4] http://jita.sugarlabs.org/

 --
 Aleksey
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] multiple IM accounts

2010-03-03 Thread David Van Assche
Problem 2 doesn't seem to be a problem of telepathy, as it can handle
concurrent connections just fine. It would be nice if Sugar could do the
same. This would mean problem 1 stops being important. If there is some
limitation within sugar that forces it to use just one connection, a
dialogue asking for a changeover to the other protocol seems like the only
thing I can think of.

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@tomeuvizoso.net wrote:

 Hi all,

 as part of the effort to make Sugar a more normal Telepathy client,
 Sugar should become able to deal with more than one IM account active
 concurrently. Up to now, Sugar's Presence Service will enable the
 Avahi-based one, then disable it if a connection to a Jabber server
 was successful. This will make easier for Sugar users to be able to
 interact with people using GNOME or other desktops.

 This raises two problems:

 - the same people could appear 2 times. We can fix it up to some point
 by announcing our JID in Avahi, then merging contacts in the UI layer.

 - we cannot invite a link-local contact to an activity being shared
 through a jabber server, nor a jabber contact to an activity shared
 through another server (without federation).

 The first is not such a big deal, but the second will require careful
 thought about how we expose this limitation to users. Any ideas?

 Thanks,

 Tomeu
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Re: [Sugar-devel] discovering open clip art library

2009-12-11 Thread David Van Assche
yeah its carried as standard in most distributions and installed, at least
in then schools I've been to, and connected directly to software packages
like open office and inkscape.

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 20:12, Christoph Derndorfer
 christoph.derndor...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Bryan Berry br...@olenepal.org wrote:
 
   The describtion of their dms is also so short that I'm not sure what
   to make of it?
  there are a lot of notes farther down the page
 
  But the top of the page clearly says that the section is deprecated. Also
  the information that is there doesn't contain enough beef for me to
  understand whether the solution meets our requirements. Plus it doesn't
 look
  like it's available anywhere...

 Take a look at the openclipart package in Ubuntu, and presumably in
 other distros.

 The Open Clip Art Library is a collection of 100% license-free,
 royalty-free, and restriction-free art that you can use for any purpose.

 Or at these.

 http://www.freebyte.com/clipart_images_photos_icons/

  Christoph
 
  --
  Christoph Derndorfer
  co-editor, olpcnews
  url: www.olpcnews.com
  e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com
 
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The trouble with a kitten is that when it grows up, it's always a cat.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Roadmap to 0.88 --- Proposal

2009-11-21 Thread David Van Assche
Well, most other distros do it... its a great way (only way I can think of)
of showing what's going to be included in the future, but just not
recommened to be runnning in a production environment. In any case, right
now, most locations are pilots that benefit from seeing what's coming up...

kinid Reards,
David Van assche

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) 
boche...@fedoraproject.org wrote:

  - Testing: I hope to see much much more testing in this release cycle.
  Two things should help here: a) I encourage the creation of a testing
  team. b) The 0.88 release will be packaged early. For testing purposes
  0.88 will be packaged for F12. Other distributions are encouraged to do
  similar.

 Do you really want to package an unstable release (for testing
 purpose) into a stable distribution?

 Some people might actually be using the stable distribution, and they
 might not be really pleased by having some
 work-in-progress-please-test release forced upon them. :-/

 Unless you're talking about packaging 0.88 for F12 but not actually
 pushing it to the stable repository?


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Re: [Sugar-devel] User workflow sharing Journal Entries over USB sticks

2009-11-12 Thread David Van Assche
This all sounds like a great current solutinon, but shouldn't we be looking
at more long term network ubquity solutions. It seems to be that having a
telepathy backend and frontend would allow us to share files anty which wat
inclydiung usb if that was desired. From my experience in schools, though
they seem like god's gift at the beginning of the semester, teachers end up
cursing the the things left right and center, through no fault of usb, but
that of human error, where people forget/loose/haver them eaten by their
pets, truly)

sorry so to sounds so pessimisitc today, mybe fell out of the wrong side of
the bed,
David

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Martin Langhoff
 martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote:
  Filed it as http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9657 - can't find anything on

 And also related: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9658 about the
 impossibility of exchanging data between Sugar versions 0.82 and 0.84

 This is rather awkward -- users cannot save their own files to a USB
 stick (pre upgrade) and expect them to work once upgraded.

 I don't expect all deployments will use olpc-update :-/



 m
 --
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  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
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Re: [Sugar-devel] User workflow sharing Journal Entries over USB sticks

2009-11-12 Thread David Van Assche
its true its an unecessary step in THIS particular scenario, but I'm thiking
more of a universal tool we could rely on for our datar storage, and
something like xmpp file sotrage XEP came to mind. IT contains
rudeimentary autehntication, file storage per person or for mutiple people
(ie a group like scenario) and probably fits via the d tube or x tube
scenario

I'm just saying that if we choose to use xmpp via technology as its main
communicatinos framework we should really nmaximmize its usage. There is so
much undiscovered potential there, so many possible ways of doing even the
simplest of person to person communictaion, persence and sharing. I was not
at ll suggesting that someone replace using USB base data sharing, but
exploring ways in which in on exmple, u could open a dtube with telepathy
between the 2 mechanisms, lets call them usb sticks for now, and transfer
that way, set  presence state, avtar, and any ohter cool sutff xmpp can
do...

I'm jus saying should we be exploring it?

Daivd

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 1:55 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  inclydiung usb if that was desired

 Maybe your usb disk has a firmware smart enough to run telepathy :-)

 Not kidding, at least one of the bugs listed in SL's tracker about
 Journal Entry sharing would be fixed with the JEB-based approach I am
 proposing. And once the Journal can prepare a JEB, you just write it
 to the USB disk mountpoint.

 Telepathy in the middle is overengineering a bridge to get from the
 kitchen to the bedroom. I am happy to walk.

 In terms of use cases, saving to a USB disk allows for personal
 backups -- like before a complete upgrade / reflash, which is still
 used in many cases.

 You wouldn't use a system that didn't let you copy your files to a
 disk, would you?



 m
 --
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  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
  - ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff




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Re: [Sugar-devel] User workflow sharing Journal Entries over USB sticks

2009-11-12 Thread David Van Assche
and storing images in Base64 for example?

David

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de
 wrote:
  IMHO separating the meta-data from the file itself is a good idea. Having
 one database at the root of the stick is just too fragile. Better store meta
 data next to the file in question, like myimage.jpg and
 myimage.journalentry?

 Good point, and the solution you suggest seems good to me too.

 Unless Sugar has another mechanism already that should be kicking
 in, and for some reason is not working...?



 m
 --
  martin.langh...@gmail.com
  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
  - ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] On Sugar 0.84 - status of the Chat/collab leader issue...

2009-11-09 Thread David Van Assche
One area I'm a little unsure about is the network connectivity (ie, how
sugar presence interfaces with sugar presence service backend. Presumably it
just uses NM and launched telepathy's RequiredConnection dbus pythong
binding. What's interesting, reading over the developer's manual is that
there are 3 ways of pretty much automating connection and presence, on
demand, automatically, and on request. The difference is not entirely
obvious immediately, but it does show that what sugar presence is currently
doing could be done much more easily, and probably more efficiently by
telepathy directly.

It would also open up better mnagament of VOIP, multi cast video (via
libjingle) and the use of other connection managers (I dont know if this is
really needed or wanted, but the possibility is there)

The question now, is where to start... I mean... are we going to redo all of
sugar.presence and sugar presence service, and let telepathy handle all/most
of the connectivity/presence/collaboration? Right now, the only thing that
is pure telepathy is the dtube collaboration, which to me is also the part
that seems to work the best.

So where to do we start, who is gonna volunteer to do this. I am
volunteering to help, but a lot of it goes above my head. I know the theory
quite well, but I'm afraid of touching  a lot of that code

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote:

 On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 17:40, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Hi,
 So I was looking over the code with some of the #telepathy guys who
 are
  also under the impression that sugar.presence code could be causing many
 of
  the collab problems. Main issue is redundancy of code... a lot of what is
  happening in sugar.presence already happens in telepathy (actually there
 are
  even comments in sugar.presence code stating this) but until we know to
 what
  level activities are using sugar.presence, we can't really do anything...
  since activities would break, I guess we'd need to know what in the
  sugar.presence modules is being really actively used to migrate to MC
 5...
  and give a warning or something, or keep some kind of sym links to the
 old
  functions... I dunno, kinda above my level of expertise...

 Yes, info about presence is duplicated in several places. Any bugs at
 each layer can cause the unreliability we see.

 Regards,

 Tomeu

  regards,
  David van Assche
 
  On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org
 wrote:
 
  On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 13:16, Benjamin M. Schwartz
  bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
   Martin Langhoff wrote:
   On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:54 PM, David Van Assche 
 dvanass...@gmail.com
   wrote:
   moving to mission control 5 and letting go of the admittedly
   antiquated sugar presence now
   ...
   If you play with a major component replacement
  
- test it for scalability  stability over wifi before doing a lot
 of
   integration work
  
   It's worth noting that moving from the Sugar Presence Service to
 Mission
   Control 5 would not alter our network protocols.  This is purely a
   change
   in how the client software is organized.  Neither regression nor
   improvement in wireless network performance should occur.
 
  Was about to say this, the work means making sugar activities' code
  more similar to GNOME apps, while also removing a daemon. This could
  have some effect on how the network is used, but chances are it won't.
 
  As a first step in removing the PS, I think we should try to implement
  the python presence API with MC5 instead of PS. Then we can either
  drop the PS or make it a compatibility shim with MC5 while activities
  such as eToys make the move.
 
  We can also take the chance to develop a better API if there's need for
  it.
 
  But in any case, we need to do some exploration now before we can
  discuss it in detail.
 
  Regards,
 
  Tomeu
 
  --
  «Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar.
  What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David
  Farning
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 day.



 --
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 What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David
 Farning




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Re: [Sugar-devel] Volunteer Opportunity

2009-11-07 Thread David Van Assche
Mor than the hardware or whether its using a wlan/jabber or even mesh
networking, there are serious underlying problems with collaboration itself,
and my belief is they are in the sugar presence module, though I could be
wrong. Under gnome, mission control 5 is responsible for doing presence
stuff, connections with whathever connetion manager is wanted, and initial
chat inititiation or much creation... from there other parts of telepathy
get involved, though in general its just telepathy that does all the stuff,
and from where the dtubes get involved with the sharing, the problems seem
to stop. That is to say, once a connection has been established between one
ore more other parties, the ride is smooth, the connection stays up and the
collaboration is quite fast and reliable... Its what happens before this
that causes many issues... The detecting of shared activities, users,
intitiating connections, etc.

My suggestion was to get rid of sugar presence and go the gnome/kde way and
directly use telepathy's mission control 5, which in my experience works
very well. I've done some initial testing, got some python scripts that do
the creation, detecting of users, creation of local link mucs, etc... and it
all seems to work smoothly, though I've done non of this in the sugar
environment. If you do take this on, I'd be more than happy to help as
telepathy itself fascinates me, and I've studied the dbus bindings
themselves quite extensively. Empathy, which is built on telepathy seems to
work quite flawlessly too, as do many of the chat clients and other apps
used in maemo/neo freerunner/android Abiword, inkscape and several gnome
game apps use telepathy without issues too (sudoku and tic tac toe come to
mind) but I'm by no means a python or C guru, and have trouble with exactly
how everything works... A lot of the code seems quite complex and I have
difficulty following it, my own code for stuff being duplication of what
already exists out there, and I'd love to be able to have more knowledge to
be able to do more pure collaboration (All the code involved up to the dtube
stage and then the use of the remote dbus bindings for programs, presumably,
one would have to crate these remote dbus bindings too, another part of all
this I'm unsure about)

But yeah... for me sugar presence should be migrated to mission control 5
and I'd bet we'd see a lot of problems just dissapear...

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:36 AM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote:

 On 6 Nov 2009, at 22:03, Sascha Silbe wrote:

  On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 12:17:32PM -0800, Edward Cherlin wrote:
 
  My experience is that the problems with Collaboration are basic
  problems with mesh networking, presumably in hardware, drivers, and
  protocols.
  While I can't (and won't) rule out the local network links (i.e.
  WLAN in whatever mode), I'm usually connected to a Jabber server
  using wired networks; still Collaboration doesn't work reliably.

 +1

 I occasionally run test sessions of 4-6 VM Sugar clients using Salut
 on an internal network (VM simulated, never touching wire/wireless)
 and even basic buddy presence often borks out after ~20min of use. The
 usual fail case is that one client stops seeing all others, but all
 others always pretend to see the missing client (even if it is really
 not there). The only resolution is to reboot all VM clients and hope
 they all can see each other for a while longer.

 The often mentioned 'it's poor wireless' may well be an issue in some
 cases, but it's certainly not the main one I see when testing
 collaboration, I dread to think what a class of 30 kids would see if
 collaboration was needed as a core part of a 40min lesson.
 Unfortunately I'm out of my depth on making much head way in pin
 pointing the issues (at one point I even started thinking it was dbus
 intermittently dropping messages).

 Regards,
 --Gary

  CU Sascha
 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] On Sugar 0.84 - status of the Chat/collab leader issue...

2009-11-07 Thread David Van Assche
Hi,
   So I was looking over the code with some of the #telepathy guys who are
also under the impression that sugar.presence code could be causing many of
the collab problems. Main issue is redundancy of code... a lot of what is
happening in sugar.presence already happens in telepathy (actually there are
even comments in sugar.presence code stating this) but until we know to what
level activities are using sugar.presence, we can't really do anything...
since activities would break, I guess we'd need to know what in the
sugar.presence modules is being really actively used to migrate to MC 5...
and give a warning or something, or keep some kind of sym links to the old
functions... I dunno, kinda above my level of expertise...

regards,
David van Assche

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote:

 On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 13:16, Benjamin M. Schwartz
 bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
  Martin Langhoff wrote:
  On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:54 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  moving to mission control 5 and letting go of the admittedly
  antiquated sugar presence now
  ...
  If you play with a major component replacement
 
   - test it for scalability  stability over wifi before doing a lot of
  integration work
 
  It's worth noting that moving from the Sugar Presence Service to Mission
  Control 5 would not alter our network protocols.  This is purely a change
  in how the client software is organized.  Neither regression nor
  improvement in wireless network performance should occur.

 Was about to say this, the work means making sugar activities' code
 more similar to GNOME apps, while also removing a daemon. This could
 have some effect on how the network is used, but chances are it won't.

 As a first step in removing the PS, I think we should try to implement
 the python presence API with MC5 instead of PS. Then we can either
 drop the PS or make it a compatibility shim with MC5 while activities
 such as eToys make the move.

 We can also take the chance to develop a better API if there's need for it.

 But in any case, we need to do some exploration now before we can
 discuss it in detail.

 Regards,

 Tomeu

 --
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 What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David
 Farning
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Re: [Sugar-devel] On Sugar 0.84 - status of the Chat/collab leader issue...

2009-11-04 Thread David Van Assche
Don't get me wrong though, I agree thoroughly that we should really
test it and make sure it plays as advertised But I think its gonna
be easier to do that than test/scale/stabalise what we currently have.

David

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:06 AM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com wrote:
 Well, at least on Gnome, Mission Control not only works well, but its
 far more stable and does what its supposed to. Its been very heavily
 tested by Nokia (Maemo), Collabra, Google, openmoko and other heavy
 hitters. I don't really agree that we have something that works with
 sugar presence. In the majority of cases, where  we've had testing
 sessions, though admittedly, with badly callibrated xmpp servers, I
 would go so far as to say that it was attrocious in terms of
 performance and stability. Once connected, collaboration worked great,
 but the stuff that happens before that, which is what sugar presence
 is supposed to be taking care of does not work well at all. If you
 take a look at telepathy-inspector and the advancements in telepathy
 itself, of which mission control 5 is one of the major overhauls, its
 massive improvement over the passed. And one of the main issues was
 that sugar presence used its own bindings, blind sighting a lot of
 what telepathy is doing, which is why currently it simply doesn't
 work. Without a xmpp server, you'll have a field day getting any kind
 of collaboration to work, and even with a really carefully setup
 ejabbberd server full of optimisations, I at least, have not been able
 to get the presence part to reliably do the same thing every time.
 Some times people show up, sometimes they dont sometimes 10 minutes
 later, sometimes with totally weird settings and names Its quite
 clear to me that what may have worked ok in 0.82, now does not. And to
 me that makes total sense, if u look at the timeline, the code, the
 blueprints, and most importantly, the actualised telepathy dbus
 bindings (The presence part has changed completely and looks nothing
 like it did when 0.82 and earlier were coded.)

 But dont take my word for it, take a look here and you'll see what I
 mean: 
 http://people.collabora.co.uk/~danni/telepathy-book/chapter.accounts.html

 kind regards,
 David Van Assche

 On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Martin Langhoff
 martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:54 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 moving to mission control 5 and letting go of the admittedly
 antiquated sugar presence now

 In planning future work in rpesence and collab stuff, I have a small,
 humble suggestion.

 Figuring out if a presence service / collab infra works and scales
 properly on both wired and wireless networks is hard. Very hard. We've
 been gotten it wrong several times by looking at the theory (instead
 of hard-nosed testing).

 Right now we have something that -- while less than ideal -- at least
 works for a number of scenarios.

 If you play with a major component replacement

  - test it for scalability  stability over wifi before doing a lot of
 integration work

  - do the integr work on a branch

  - test that the integrated thing works stable and scalable

 Of course that's ideal world stuff. However, the heart of the matter
 is: approach mission control tentatively... and at least _some_
 significant testing needs to happen before it's merged...

 We've gotten this wrong a few times -- I am not keen on repeating the
 adventures... :-/



 m
 --
  martin.langh...@gmail.com
  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
  - ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff




 --

 Stephen Leacock  - I detest life-insurance agents: they always argue
 that I shall some day die, which is not so. -
 http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/stephen_leacock.html




-- 

Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach  - Even a stopped clock is right twice a
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Mesh

2009-11-04 Thread David Van Assche
The telepathy-salut connection works on the basis of Avahi (sometimes
called Bonjour) Sometimes also called local-xmpp, and telepathy itself
creates the connections by selecting the connection manager via
Mission control through a dbus method called RequestConnection Salut
is kind of an untrusted protocol,in that it doesnt require a password,
like gabble does. Makes it great for ease of use for schools. For
example, Guadalinex-edu has a small app that puts users into groups by
creating local link Multi user chatrooms (teacher creates  these) and
students then join their relevant classroom from a selection of
classrooms/subjects. The association to the MUC then allows for lots
of cool telepathy/xmpp stuff, like transmission of configuration
files, pause,play video/ausio files, switching on/off of certain
software automatically, dtube remote control (teacher can powerdown
laptops, lower voume remotely, lots of other remote control stuff)
Dtubes are really quite awsome, we just haven't thought about all the
possible uses yet.

Telepathy itself could use pretty much any connection manager, though
the XOs are limited to using gabble when there is a jabber server
present, and Salut if not. The actual mesh connection is done on a
hardware level though and is totally unique to the XO as in no other
laptop that I know of has working mesh network capable cards. I think
maybe classmate has capable meshing on some level but its not really
switched on. Unfortunately its meshing suffers from uncontrolled
multicasting, which quickly saturates the the airwaves and brings down
communication with 10+ laptops meshing. It's a cool concept though
but realistically the implementation isn't all that great... not that
I'm saying I could do any better at all :-) Just stating some
observations...

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz
bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
 Cecilia Abalde wrote:
 I think I understood salut ytelepathy gabble telepathy.
 My question now is:
 to salut telepathy works there must be some established network?
 for example a mesh network or a wifi network

 Yes.  All of the Telepathy protocols require that there be a working local
 network connection.  They operate on top of a network such as wired
 ethernet, wifi, or mesh.

 Of course, the interesting thing about mesh networks (and also ad hoc
 networks) is that they are very easy to create, because all you need are
 the laptops.

 --Ben


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Tutorius Demo and Meeting

2009-10-27 Thread David Van Assche
Please put them in linux-for-education.org. Pages too if u do more
work doing than the person that currently has one not only do you get
his (his responsibility to engraveI lost this tshirt in good shame
and faith, but by the batttlecry of Eureeeka, I will reclaim it one
again-2 to Full Name

I think its a fun idea, and it could be a thing for various distros
and various themes. Almost like pledges to get, like in
xbox-playstation(nintendo)

Lets say for Linux-for-education.org there are only 10 tshirts for
now. the major distros do somethin similar, doesnt even have to be in
area of IT a cool limited edition t-shirt,

This should put some computition into dox writing triaging and bug bashing.


Along with the pages, we must have at least 1 judge, robbed, robber
eh achhievements.  publicly show it off in the liunux wall of shame page.

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Erick Lavoie erick.lav...@gmail.com wrote:
 As discussed before, Tutorius is a project done by 9 students from
 Université de Sherbrooke (Québec, Canada) aiming to integrate interactive
 tutorials inside Sugar to guide Sugar users in learning the platform and its
 activities.  Our goal for december is to be able to cover most of the
 content of the Floss manual.

 We are doing this along 3 axis:

 Execution: Add the mecanisms needed to Sugar to support execution of
 tutorials
 Creation: Provide tools to create tutorials from within Sugar in a GUI
 environment
 Sharing: Provide a platform to share tutorials on the web

 We have shown demos in the past of basic capabilities (in chronological
 order), here, here and at a presentation given last April.

 Next Friday, we will hang around on IRC at 13h EST and give a live demo of
 the current state of the project using Yuuguu or something equivalent, with
 an execution engine running in a separate process than the activity, an
 overhauled tutorial creator (still running inside the activity process) and
 maybe a quick overview of the sharing platform based around the addon
 sharing platform from Mozilla.

 We would like to exchange ideas with people and discuss technical matters
 with the following goals:

 Receive feedback on the work done so far
 Discuss the possible integration of our system with Sugar, the SugarLabs
 sharing platform and the official release cycle
 Anticipate possible evolutions
 Exchange ideas and pointers to similar work and papers to inspire ourselves
 and avoid duplicating research efforts

 Our team will disband around mid-december, but I'll keep maintaining the
 project and there might be possibilities for another team of 6-8 people from
 Université de Sherbrooke to push the project further in January for another
 year. It would be really exciting to see a collaboration with SugarLabs
 continue in the future!

 For those interested in a more technical view of the inner working of the
 system, see Tutorius Architecture, especially the Component section.

 See you on IRC on Friday at 13h EST!

 Erick Lavoie
 for Tutorius




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Re: [Sugar-devel] 0.86 plans

2009-09-30 Thread David Van Assche
And we are relying on jhconvert for openSUSE rpms too. Outside that we
maintain more than 50 honey activities via oBS.

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org wrote:

 On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:06:56AM -0400, Walter Bender wrote:
  I am planning to blog about the plans for 0.86 in the various distros.
  In order to ensure I get my facts straight, I am asking that those of
  you involved in packaging please send me a sentence or two describing
  your targets.

 Among jhconvert's official repos,

 Mandriva:
0.86 was packaged to development repository and will be in the next
2010.0 release(2009-11-03)

 --
 Aleksey
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- I'm willing to admit that I may not always be right, but I am never
wrong.
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[Sugar-devel] DB module for moodle in XS server serously coool and needed addittion

2009-09-04 Thread David Van Assche
To create a easy reference for linux commands, the best way was to use the
Moodle database module. You can create quite elaborate databases which are
then easily edited and added to by users.

There are only 4 entries in it right now, but the idea is for it to get
filled up. So give it a go...

http://www.linux-for-education.org/mod/data/view.php?id=2747

The idea is, that this approach can be used for making the incredibly
powerful and simple to use dbs for XS moodle installs to contain important
materials such as a testing DB, general equipment DB, commands DB, hell even
a local apps DB that links ot applications.sugarlabs.org

Anyway, I remember Marting Langhoff trying to grab people's attention to
this great module, well above is an  implementation example which not only
works, but looks ok to..

kind regaards,
David Van Assche
linux-for-education.org -- www.nubae.com


-- 

Stephen 
Leacockhttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/stephen_leacock.html
- I detest life-insurance agents: they always argue that I shall some
day
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)

2009-08-14 Thread David Van Assche
Ok, I think what's happening here is a breakdown in communication. When I
used the term obvious, I was talking about Christoph's email... I was
stating that perhaps the message, as I understood it, was that we need more
data from the field... and that _the message_ was not obvious enough in the
email. I never meant that the feedback was not obvious enough... or that
developers were not doing enough to keep us informed.

I really hope this makes sense. I'm a little concerned that I have to be so
careful about wording. I sort of get the feeling that should one make any
type of constructive criticism, this is immediately construed as a threat,
and the person writing the criticism is forced to walk on egg shells.

I understand that talking about what can be done better, or what should have
been done that wasnt, etc causes very emotional responses because of the
time people have given to the project, but should we really just shut up
about this stuff? Or is there value to hearing people's opinions on how
things could be improved?

And on that note, I'd like to hear how I can improve gathering feedback for
our Autonomous region, based on methods currently in place elsewhere. What
I'm asking for is links to documentation that show how this has been done
till now in South America, Nepal and Asia, Africa, Europe. I've looked
around, but there is not too much information on the web. My idea is to try
and automate this as much as possible by creating a set of scripts, or
plugins that can measure stats and then send these (probably via xmpp)

Someone mentioned munin, but this doesn't really give user statistics much
though... its more of a network tool for servers for measuring performance,
resource usage, and graphing these. What I am talking about is digitising
the current manual feedback that is happening elsewhere (how many users
running which apps, lesson plans being used, languages, how many computers
requiring repairs, general problems people are running into, and generally
people's feelings on sugar usage, maybe even surveys)

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote:

 On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 20:17, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying... all I said was we
 need
  more data from the field

 Well, I also understood that you said that it wasn't obvious enough.
 Which surprised me after all the noise lately about getting feedback.

 Anyway, I'm seeing feedback coming right now and also efforts to
 organize feedback gathering. So, let's do it!

 Regards,

 Tomeu

  I am in no way blaming anyone for not getting feedback, on the contrary,
 I
  am frustrated that the calls for feediback are not being heard enoguh,
 and I
  am well aware of people's efforts to try and get this feedback. What I am
  saying is that the feedback is not coming through does this make
 sense?
  Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not seeing
  it?
 
  regards,
  David
 
  On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org
 wrote:
 
  On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 15:51, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com
  wrote:
   H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it
 as
   being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small
   deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is happening
   on a
   larger scale in the third world.
 
  Ok, but will give some other interesting information, or not at all?
 
   And its important to acknowledge the
   differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely.
 
  And isn't this stating the obvious?
 
   I think
   what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way
 more
   data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large
   scale,
   and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to have
   some
   cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa.
 
  I'm quite appalled by this, you don't read the mailing lists where we
  make regular calls for feedback? Short from taking a plane and
  visiting school by school, I don't see what else I can do to get that
  feedback.
 
  You understand Spanish, search the olpc-sur mailing list for posts by
  Walter and me and tell here again if we don't ask for feedback.
 
  It's really frustrating that we are here spending our savings and time
  on this project, and not only the people deploying our software don't
  want to talk to us despite our requests, but other people still think
  we don't want to know about them.
 
  Frustratedly yours,
 
  Tomeu
 
   kind Regards,
   David Van Assche
  
   On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David Farning 
 dfarn...@sugarlabs.org
   wrote:
  
   On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph
   Derndorfere0425...@student.tuwien.ac.at wrote:
Sean DALY schrieb:
IMHO, close study of small deployments makes them incredibly
 useful

Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

2009-08-14 Thread David Van Assche
Hi Andrés,
  The sharing of activities not working for more than a few connections is a
common issue in all the deployments I have seen. It is really important to
have an ejabberd server to help with routing xmpp traffic, if you plan on
running more than a few XOs in collaborative mode.

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Andrés Nacelle anace...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy
 wrote:

 Hello you all,

 In first place thanks for asking, 'm glad to try to help here.

 Well, lets see. I think in first place we need to make sure witch is the
 version of the SO and firmware on the XO from the teacher and children,
 which is really easy for the teacher to tell us. There's a chance that she
 (or some student) have an activity called something like Info XO, in that
 case they just have to run it and the info will be displayed. In case she
 doesn't have it she needs to pres the tick button on the game pad during
 the booting for the firmware and after the booting change to a terminal an
 there look for the SO version.
 Once we have that info we can start to see if we can do something about the
 mesh issue.
 Independent of this, we never been able to share activities on the mesh for
 more than a few XO, trying with 20 no XO shared a thing, not even one.

 On the other topics I have nothing to say different from what has been said
 in the mailing list.

 Thank

 Andres Nacelle




 2009/8/14 Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org

 2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea gei...@gmail.com:
  Hi all,
 
  I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
  request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
 
  1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
  network. She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.

 Not sure we can debug this remotely :/

 Andrés, do you know about any work in the Ceibal plan to determine the
 reliability of the mesh network?

  2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
  home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
  in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
  she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
 
  3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
  pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a blank page).
 
  4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
  move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.

 I understand the frustration, do you think we could get copies of
 those files and more details about the workflow?

 About usb sticks, in versions earlier than 0.84 we are using a scheme
 that is quite fragile, specially when using the same stick with
 non-sugar computers.

 I would recommend deleting the .olpc.store in the usb stick after
 every usage in a non-sugar computer and see if weird things stop
 happening. If this helps somehow, then we should find a way to
 publicize this trick. Note that from Sugar 0.84 this is not needed.

  5) SocialCalc save and restore doesn't work. After saving, there is a
  Journal entry but when they open it the information is not there.

 Manu, know anything about it? I guess having a ticket with the
 activity logs would help here.

  6) She claims that files dissappear for no reason. This probably needs
  to be clarified. She discards the possibility of kids deleting files
  by accident.

 Yes, this deserves further clarification. It's a very wide issue, so
 we'll need a way to track all the different circumstances in which
 data reliability can happen. The journal data store was rewritten in
 0.84 with increasing reliability on mind, but I guess it will take a
 while to update all machines to that or later versions of Sugar.

  Now the question is, how can we get these questions in reasonable
  shape so it is useful information for debugging?

 That's the Million Laptops Question ;)

 We are doing nice progress on this, but it's a really big task.

 Thanks a lot,

 Tomeu

  Thanks,
 
  Gabriel
 
 
  -- Mensaje reenviado --
 
  Quisiera que supieras que tenemos algunos problemas con varias cosas
  en la xo y me parece que son puntos importantes para que podamos
  trabajar mejor con la máquina. te paso algunos, y vos ves si pueden
  hacer algo al respecto.
  Las redes malla siguen funcionando mal, y desde que se actualizaron
  las máquinas es peor, son muy pocos los niños que logran entrar en la
  misma red.
  He tenido dificultades cuando guardo en el pen drive textos realizados
  en write, los leo con el open office y luego vuelvo a cargarlo en sus
   máquinas y no me los lee, aún cuando no les realizo ninguna
  modificación. Probé cambiándole el formato a pdf, que sé que las xo lo
  leen, y no pude, cuando abro el pen en la xo y hago clic en el
  archivo, ahí puedo ver que está el texto (no lo abrió aún) y hago clic
  en retomar y qqueda la hoja en blanco. no tengo idea como voy  a hacer
  para que reparen el texto si

Re: [Sugar-devel] feedback from a teacher in Uruguay

2009-08-14 Thread David Van Assche
Yeah, with that many clients, I'd play with the s2s option to load balance
the xmpp traffic. Either that, and/or take out all debugging options, error
feedback, and the like, so you only get the needed traffic... This page
gives some tuning options:
http://www.ejabberd.im/tuning

Enabling Gadget is supposed to really help, too. Please let us know how it
all goes, as this kind of information is invaluable. From the realtively few
reports we get about collaboration scaling, it seems xmpp based sharing is
not very widespread yet. I guess this is fortunate in one way (things
generally work), but unfortunate in another (not enough feedback)

Also this from ejabberd site:

Kernel poll reduces ejabberd's CPU usage when it has hundreds (or more)
network connections. It does not affect memory consumption or latency, so if
you plan to support great amounts of simultaneous connected users, you
really want to have a Jabber server with Kernel Poll support.
There is also the possibility of using a different server, but from
everything mentioned, it does seem like Erlang based ejabberd will scale
better than anything else. But good things have been said about Java based
Openfire and Tigase, and Lua based Prosody. We are actually doing an
internal evaluation of the various xmpp servers at my work, so I'll try
publishing that...

good luck,
David Van Assche

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Andrés Nacelle anace...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy
 wrote:

 Hi David, we're aware of this situation. In fact we attempt to share
 activities between this mush XO in order to compare the performance against
 the ejabber. We've got good results with the ejabber, but we don't know what
 will happen in a big school where 200 or 300 XO may appear n the
 Neighbourhood view.
 Without the ejabber lots of udp traffic is generated, from which about 60%
 are retransmissions. If ejabber is used you still should get an improvement
 on the performance if you disable the beacons and the probe response, they
 can produce saturation in the net for some seconds.

 Thank for you advise and help.

 Andres Nacelle

 2009/8/14 David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com

 Hi Andrés,
   The sharing of activities not working for more than a few connections is
 a common issue in all the deployments I have seen. It is really important to
 have an ejabberd server to help with routing xmpp traffic, if you plan on
 running more than a few XOs in collaborative mode.

 kind regards,
 David Van Assche


 On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Andrés Nacelle 
 anace...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy wrote:

 Hello you all,

 In first place thanks for asking, 'm glad to try to help here.

 Well, lets see. I think in first place we need to make sure witch is the
 version of the SO and firmware on the XO from the teacher and children,
 which is really easy for the teacher to tell us. There's a chance that she
 (or some student) have an activity called something like Info XO, in that
 case they just have to run it and the info will be displayed. In case she
 doesn't have it she needs to pres the tick button on the game pad during
 the booting for the firmware and after the booting change to a terminal an
 there look for the SO version.
 Once we have that info we can start to see if we can do something about
 the mesh issue.
 Independent of this, we never been able to share activities on the mesh
 for more than a few XO, trying with 20 no XO shared a thing, not even one.

 On the other topics I have nothing to say different from what has been
 said in the mailing list.

 Thank

 Andres Nacelle




 2009/8/14 Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org

 2009/8/13 Gabriel Eirea gei...@gmail.com:
  Hi all,
 
  I'm sending below the original text (in Spanish) of a teacher friend's
  request. I'll try to translate her main concerns.
 
  1) Mesh network doesn't work. Very few kids can get in the same
  network. She claims it got worse with the latest update in Ceibal.

 Not sure we can debug this remotely :/

 Andrés, do you know about any work in the Ceibal plan to determine the
 reliability of the mesh network?

  2) She saves Write documents in the pendrive, then she opens them at
  home with KUbuntu and OpenOffice, then she saves the modified document
  in the pendrive and tries to open it in the XO with Write. She claims
  she can't open it even if the document was not modified.
 
  3) Same scenario as 2), she saves it from KUbuntu as a pdf in a
  pendrive. She can't open it back in the XO (she gets a blank page).
 
  4) The previous cases are frustrating because she wants to be able to
  move back and forth between the XO and her (convenitonal) laptop.

 I understand the frustration, do you think we could get copies of
 those files and more details about the workflow?

 About usb sticks, in versions earlier than 0.84 we are using a scheme
 that is quite fragile, specially when using the same stick with
 non-sugar computers.

 I would recommend deleting the .olpc.store in the usb stick after
 every usage in a non

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)

2009-08-13 Thread David Van Assche
H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it as
being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small
deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is happening on a
larger scale in the third world. And its important to acknowledge the
differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely. I think
what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way more
data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large scale,
and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to have some
cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa.

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.orgwrote:

 On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph
 Derndorfere0425...@student.tuwien.ac.at wrote:
  Sean DALY schrieb:
  IMHO, close study of small deployments makes them incredibly useful to
  all teachers and Learners. The observations and take-aways need to be
  triaged of course, starting with what can/should be done by Sugar
  Labs, but I am convinced many learnings will benefit large
  deployments. Until reliable means of sharing experiences and feedback
  (polls, questionnaires, council of deployers, etc.) can be put in
  place, microscopic study of a classroom using Sugar is well worth the
  effort, in particular for revealing blockers.
 
  I'm not sure I really agree with this statement...

 Christoph please keep the dramatic headlines to olpcnews.

 In the above paragraph, Walter notes that many lessons can be learned
 from controlled environments which can then be applied to larger
 scaled, less controlled environments.

 Please note, this does not _exclude_ anyone from providing feedback
 from large scale deployments.  Nor does it _prevent_ anyone from
 creating small scale deployments anywhere in the world.  _all_ it
 states is that it is often cost effective to start small and grow as
 lessons have been learned.

 And yes, Christoph I _am_ holding your writing to a higher standard.
 Several times, you have described yourself as the voice of the
 project.

 david

  Extrapolating the data and drawing conclusions based on observations in
  a trial that represents less than 0,01% of all current Sugar
  installations is a risky endeavor at best and a serious mistake at
  worst. Even more so when the environment between the trial (in this case
  GPA) and the global deployments really couldn't be more different in
  just about every way imaginable (SoaS vs. XO, summer classes vs. regular
  year-long classes, Boston connectivity vs. Rwanda connectivity, 25
  installations in a school vs. 1000 installations in a school, US power
  infrastructure vs. Nepali power infrastructure, having a team consisting
  of Walter / Greg / Caroline supporting the efforts vs. being lucky to
  maybe have a single person who has used a computer before, 25 pupils in
  a classroom vs. 80 pupils in a classroom, users that were raised in
  urban North America vs. users who don't have electricity at home, and I
  could go on...).
 
  Yes, some of the findings at GPA will indeed be of a broad and general
  nature and subsequent actions will benefit all Sugar users. Yes,
  projects like in Alabama, Austria, the UK and similar places will be
  able to learn many things from the GPA pilot.
 
  But let's not forget that the current million Sugar users and (if the
  reports are to be believed) also the next million Sugar users are much
  more likely to be found in Ancash, Kigali or Sichuan rather than Boston,
  London or Vienna. And I doubt that you'll find too many schools in those
  places that have a profile similar to GPA [1].
 
  Just my 2 Nepali Rupees,
  Christoph
 
  [1] The Gardner Pilot Academy is the flagship full-service community
  school within the Boston Public Schools (BPS). The school's vision is to
  educate the minds and develop the characters of all students in
  partnership with families and community. To achieve this GPA provides
  high quality teaching along with a range of social, emotional and
  enrichment programs delivered by means of partnerships with an array of
  community organizations and individuals. Over the past twelve years, GPA
  has developed strong associations with four universities, several health
  and mental health agencies, the YMCA, and various organizations teaching
  visual and performing arts. As one of just 20 pilot schools in the BPS,
  GPA is exempt from district mandates. Therefore, GPA has autonomy in the
  areas of budget and personnel, along with the freedom to implement
  innovative curricula, assessments, and interventions.
  (
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Gardner_Pilot_Academy#Gardner_Pilot_Academy)
 
  --
  Christoph Derndorfer
  co-editor, olpcnews
  url: www.olpcnews.com
  e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com
 
  ___
  IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
  i

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)

2009-08-13 Thread David Van Assche
I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying... all I said was we need
more data from the field

I am in no way blaming anyone for not getting feedback, on the contrary, I
am frustrated that the calls for feediback are not being heard enoguh, and I
am well aware of people's efforts to try and get this feedback. What I am
saying is that the feedback is not coming through does this make sense?
Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not seeing
it?

regards,
David

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote:

 On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 15:51, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  H... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it as
  being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small
  deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is happening on
 a
  larger scale in the third world.

 Ok, but will give some other interesting information, or not at all?

  And its important to acknowledge the
  differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely.

 And isn't this stating the obvious?

  I think
  what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way more
  data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large
 scale,
  and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to have
 some
  cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa.

 I'm quite appalled by this, you don't read the mailing lists where we
 make regular calls for feedback? Short from taking a plane and
 visiting school by school, I don't see what else I can do to get that
 feedback.

 You understand Spanish, search the olpc-sur mailing list for posts by
 Walter and me and tell here again if we don't ask for feedback.

 It's really frustrating that we are here spending our savings and time
 on this project, and not only the people deploying our software don't
 want to talk to us despite our requests, but other people still think
 we don't want to know about them.

 Frustratedly yours,

 Tomeu

  kind Regards,
  David Van Assche
 
  On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.org
  wrote:
 
  On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph
  Derndorfere0425...@student.tuwien.ac.at wrote:
   Sean DALY schrieb:
   IMHO, close study of small deployments makes them incredibly useful
 to
   all teachers and Learners. The observations and take-aways need to be
   triaged of course, starting with what can/should be done by Sugar
   Labs, but I am convinced many learnings will benefit large
   deployments. Until reliable means of sharing experiences and feedback
   (polls, questionnaires, council of deployers, etc.) can be put in
   place, microscopic study of a classroom using Sugar is well worth the
   effort, in particular for revealing blockers.
  
   I'm not sure I really agree with this statement...
 
  Christoph please keep the dramatic headlines to olpcnews.
 
  In the above paragraph, Walter notes that many lessons can be learned
  from controlled environments which can then be applied to larger
  scaled, less controlled environments.
 
  Please note, this does not _exclude_ anyone from providing feedback
  from large scale deployments.  Nor does it _prevent_ anyone from
  creating small scale deployments anywhere in the world.  _all_ it
  states is that it is often cost effective to start small and grow as
  lessons have been learned.
 
  And yes, Christoph I _am_ holding your writing to a higher standard.
  Several times, you have described yourself as the voice of the
  project.
 
  david
 
   Extrapolating the data and drawing conclusions based on observations
 in
   a trial that represents less than 0,01% of all current Sugar
   installations is a risky endeavor at best and a serious mistake at
   worst. Even more so when the environment between the trial (in this
 case
   GPA) and the global deployments really couldn't be more different in
   just about every way imaginable (SoaS vs. XO, summer classes vs.
 regular
   year-long classes, Boston connectivity vs. Rwanda connectivity, 25
   installations in a school vs. 1000 installations in a school, US power
   infrastructure vs. Nepali power infrastructure, having a team
 consisting
   of Walter / Greg / Caroline supporting the efforts vs. being lucky to
   maybe have a single person who has used a computer before, 25 pupils
 in
   a classroom vs. 80 pupils in a classroom, users that were raised in
   urban North America vs. users who don't have electricity at home, and
 I
   could go on...).
  
   Yes, some of the findings at GPA will indeed be of a broad and general
   nature and subsequent actions will benefit all Sugar users. Yes,
   projects like in Alabama, Austria, the UK and similar places will be
   able to learn many things from the GPA pilot.
  
   But let's not forget that the current million Sugar users and (if the
   reports are to be believed) also the next million Sugar

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] GPA ain't the world (was: [Sugar-news] Sugar Digest 2009-08-11)

2009-08-13 Thread David Van Assche
From my end, I can offer extensive feedback on Sugar usage in Andalucian
schools, when we ship our next release in September. As this is a pretty
controlled environment, we should be able to get some automated statistics.
I'd love to hear some ideas on this. What could we install on the client
sugar sessions to track things... perhaps, programs being used, length of
time used, internet connectivity or not, etc. What I'm saying is, we could
build some kind of statistic tracking into the computers as long as its not
efficiency damaging or privacy violating...

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:17 PM, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 [snip]
  Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not seeing
  it?

 We all seem to agree that feedback is important.

 We mostly agree that there is value in feedback from all deployments,
 big and small.

 We are currently getting valuable feedback from the field: Sur, the
 Ceibal blogs, reports from Nepal, Greg's reports from GPA, et al.

 We need more feedback and therefore we are exploring additional means
 of getting it. You ideas are welcome!

 -walter

 [snip]

 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org




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[Sugar-devel] article about Sugar in Wired magazine

2009-08-04 Thread David Van Assche
http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2009/08/inventing-a-new-paradigm-sugarlabs-and-the-sugar-ui/

enjoy

David Van Assche

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Re: [Sugar-devel] TuxPaint and saving to journal (Was: Duplication of effort)

2009-07-29 Thread David Van Assche
Well its not that it doesn't resolve, it goes to a page not found...

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Christoph Derndorfer 
christoph.derndor...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:30 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.comwrote:

 the activity handbook link on the Almanac page is broken...


 That doesn't really come as a surprise since the OLPC Austria Web site
 (where the Activity Handbook is hosted on the wiki) has been down for the
 past week or so... :-/

 Christoph

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 url: www.olpcnews.com
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Re: [Sugar-devel] TuxPaint and saving to journal (Was: Duplication of effort)

2009-07-28 Thread David Van Assche
the activity handbook link on the Almanac page is broken...

David

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote:

 On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:03, Christoph
 Derndorferchristoph.derndor...@gmail.com wrote:
  I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the Sugar Almanac so far:
  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Almanac
 
  IMHO this is the best place to get you started with Sugar development.

 Yeah, but for now it's only python :/

 We need people to keep contributing to it.

 Regards,

 Tomeu

  Christoph
  --
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  co-editor, olpcnews
  url: www.olpcnews.com
  e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com
 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] HelloWorld documentation in sugarlabs wiki

2009-07-02 Thread David Van Assche
They are at least available at linux-for-education.org as moodle
courses. It would be great if we start getting used to create moodle
courses instead of wiki entries for anything that is kinda like a
lesson or a tutorial, as it means easier grouping, moving, choosing,
translating, and more complex modifying...

It takes about 15 minutes to convert a wiki entry into a moodle course...

David

P.S. If we dont create the content for the deployments no one will!!

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Simon Schampijersi...@schampijer.de wrote:
 On 07/02/2009 11:45 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
 On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:13, Simon Schampijersi...@schampijer.de  wrote:
 Hi,

 do we have those resources available on the sugarlabs wiki already?

 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_tutorial
 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Making_Sugar_Icons

 And I guess would be cool to get the hello-world example as well in git.

 http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/hello-world

 Done,
    Simon
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)

2009-06-18 Thread David Van Assche
Sean and others

can we please try and use the term SoaS slighlty more agnostically.
Right now, every time its mentioned it always uses the Fedora backend
without question or debate. I think of it a little like when someone
says write me an office letter (and its quitely assumed by everyonen
that they will be using Microsoft word for this) I spoke briefly to
Sebastian about this and we suggestd, quite entertainingly:

FedSoaS or SoaSora
SuSoaS or SoaSuse
GenSoaS or SoaS(t)oo
DebSoaS or SoaSian
ManSoaS or SoaSiva
CaSoaS or SoaSica

For me, I kind of like the last column

Anyway, the point is not to tie SoaS to one distro... there are enough
people willing to help for the different distros , and the more
markets the better right?

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Sean DALYsdaly...@gmail.com wrote:
 We've discussed my idea to do a flurry of press releases over the
 next couple of weeks, coinciding with our presence/sessions at:

 * LinuxTag
 Berlin
 June 24-27
 http://www.linuxtag.org/2009/en.html

 * Free  Open Source Software in Education (FOSSED)
 Bethel, Maine
 June 24-26
 http://www.fossed.com

 * National Educational Computing Conference (NECC)
 Washington, DC
 June 28-July 1
 http://center.uoregon.edu/ISTE/NECC2009
 (also EduBloggerCon / Classroom 2.0 LIVE in DC on June 27:
 http://www.edubloggercon.com/EduBloggerCon+2009)

 * Gran Canaria Desktop Summit (GUADEC+Akademy)
 Canary Islands
 July 3-July 11
 http://www.grancanariadesktopsummit.org/


 After mulling it over I feel our interests will be best served by two
 press releases (eReleases/PR Newswire + Sugar Labs press page +
 targeted mailing to journalists  educators), with an option for a
 third at GUADEC if there are new developments (very possible over next
 10 days):

 Wednesday, June 24th, datelined LinuxTag:
 SoaS v1 Strawberry release!
 Gould grant / GPA pilot - classroom tests of SoaS
 100 GCompris/ASLO - offer enriched
 XO-1.5 refresh/XO SoaS version - not forgetting the XO installed base
 Local Labs - Colombia, Washington DC, Rochester?
 Dailymotion channel - info source
 Image: SoaS beauty shots

 * Monday, June 29th: NECC (Washington DC)
 Nexcopy partnership
 Image: TBD


 I feel the richness of our news on the day both LinuxTag and FOSSED
 open will increase our chances for wide coverage. I think back-to-back
 releases won't work for our targeted mailing list and including two
 releases in one mailing would be clumsy. This will also simplify
 printing for handouts.

 The Nexcopy partnership has a different angle and call to action
 (collect  recycle sticks / gesture for schools) and merits a separate
 treatment.

 The deadline for the Wednesday SoaS release is in 24 hours... I will
 put up a draft for the marketing list in a few hours.

 I will attend LinuxTag on June 26-27 and SugarCamp/FUDCon June 28th.

 If I've forgotten anything, if anyone has better ideas, please by all
 means let me know

 thanks!

 Sean
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[Sugar-devel] Fwd: [IAEP] [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)

2009-06-18 Thread David Van Assche
sorry ended up going to Sean only...


-- Forwarded message --
From: David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] Press release flurry planning
(LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)
To: Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com


Soas = sugar on a stick whether that be on Fedora, Suse, debian,
or mandriva... they are all the same thing, and I would argue SoaS is
NOT a distro... just a dsitribution mechanism... for example, I call
my opensuse based sugar on stick SoaS too, as that is technically what
it is...

David

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Sean DALYsdaly...@gmail.com wrote:
 I beg everyone's pardon, I was under the impression that SoaS is
 Fedora-specific... are there plans to do versions based on other
 distros?

 Sean


 On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Bert Freudenbergb...@freudenbergs.de wrote:
 (excluding IAEP from cc list)

 On 18.06.2009, at 19:45, David Van Assche wrote:

 Anyway, the point is not to tie SoaS to one distro...

 Err, SoaS *is* a distro. It currently is based on Fedora, it might get
 based on something else in the unforeseeable future, but having a
 gazillion SoaSes isn't plan of anything I heard.

 there are enough people willing to help for the different distros ,
 and the more
 markets the better right?


 Yes, definitely, Sugar needs to be integrated well in many different
 distros. But that's independed of the SoaS effort.

 - Bert -


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on a Stick Branches

2009-06-18 Thread David Van Assche
Done...

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Frederick Grosefgr...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 1:45 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Sean and others

 can we please try and use the term SoaS slighlty more agnostically.
 Right now, every time its mentioned it always uses the Fedora backend
 without question or debate. I think of it a little like when someone
 says write me an office letter (and its quitely assumed by everyonen
 that they will be using Microsoft word for this) I spoke briefly to
 Sebastian about this and we suggestd, quite entertainingly:

 FedSoaS or SoaSora
 SuSoaS or SoaSuse
 GenSoaS or SoaS(t)oo
 DebSoaS or SoaSian
 ManSoaS or SoaSiva
 CaSoaS or SoaSica

 For me, I kind of like the last column

 Anyway, the point is not to tie SoaS to one distro... there are enough
 people willing to help for the different distros , and the more
 markets the better right?

 Good idea.  Please help to adjust
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Linux and
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick#Downloading_alternative_images

 to provide the community with specifics for those SoaStick branches or
 variants.

   --Fred

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Re: [Sugar-devel] the SoaS term (was: Press release flurry planning...)

2009-06-18 Thread David Van Assche
Well, here is where I totally disagree. The term SoaS actually came
from the ubuntu derived Sugar on a stick. so by your logic, as it was
'coined' by an individual who chose to put sugar on a usb stick using
ubuntu, who by the same logic is the sole owner and user of that term.
I think that really hurts Sugar in general. There are now at least 4
different version of SoaS that I know of, and I, having worked hard to
bring one to market, feel it detracts from getting sugar out to the
end users. If we start calling the thing a million different names,
its just going to confuse and alienate people, not let them use it. In
essence the experience should be very similar regardless of distro
use, but different packagers will choose to package different things
(case in point being debian which till recently only wanted to
concentrate on 8.2) At events and conferences, when we choose to write
these usb sticks or give out cdroms with sugar, the user should have a
choice as to which underlying distro he wants to have (and yes it does
make a difference), but it should still be called what it actualls is
- Sugar on a usb stick. So when I say agnosticate the term, I mean use
the term as it is semantically appropriate. I for one, will use that
term to define openSUSE running as the base with sugar running on top
of it, and will market it as such. But I will explain that it is
available in multiple flavours

post continues below...

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Jonas Smedegaardd...@jones.dk wrote:

---trim---

Anyway, the point is not to tie SoaS to one distro... there are enough
people willing to help for the different distros , and the more
markets the better right?

 I completely disagree.

 To me, SoaS is a specific distribution coined by Sugar enthusiasts (who
 happen to also most/all of them also to be Sugar developers).

 This particular distribution is derived from Fedora.  It might be that
 in the future they decide to switch to Ubuntu or OpenSuSe as platform
 for their development.

 It might also be that other distributions emerge based on other major
 distributions.

 Whatever happens, let each distribution choose their own name.  Or
 discuss with them to change name - I really don't care.

 What concerns me is that Sugarlabs do not dictate naming of external
 projects.

I don't really get what you mean here...


 ...and now comes the fun part: Do Sugarlabs feel that SoaS is not
 external?

I don't get what is meant by this... can u elaborate?

 I recomend to tream SoaS as a distribution, and I recommend Sugarlabs to
 leave the distribution task to others.  Be friendly to any
 distribution that includes Sugar - sure - but don't take on that
 challenge yourself.  There is plenty to do that is more Sugar-specific

what challenge exactly?

kind Regards,
David Van Assche
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)

2009-06-18 Thread David Van Assche
Well, that ship sailed quite a while ago. I find it hard to believe
that you missed the significant publicity surrounding Sugar being
available on openSUSE in ALL formats (cd/dvd/usb/vm appliance) as I've
been touting that for at least 2 months now. In fact the collaboration
sessions that have been advertised various times quite explicitly talk
about the opensuse variant, which contains a large set of honey apps
(thats what makes it different from Fedora SoaS)

To me, saying stick = Fedora, is like saying Sugar is based solely on
Fedora... which is just totally silly and very harmful for the
distribution of it. Fedora is a very small community in comparison to
the debian based world (which is approximately 60% of the market) then
we also have Mandriva and openSUSE who take another good 25%+ of the
market, conservatively. That leaves Fedora + derivatives with 15% of
the market... (based on distrowatch figures) thats highly undemocratic
to steal the term SoaS to just refer to Fedora (especially since the
term actually came from someone who stuck Sugar on usb via Ubuntu) I
can dig up the references for you guys if you like.

How can Sugar on a Stick (not the term Fedora quite obviously missing
from it) be Fedora centric?

This smells to me like saying Office = microsoft... it smells very
bad... which is why I'm raising my concerns over it somewhat...

David

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Bert Freudenbergb...@freudenbergs.de wrote:
 On 18.06.2009, at 20:28, David Van Assche wrote:

 Soas = sugar on a stick whether that be on Fedora, Suse, debian,
 or mandriva... they are all the same thing, and I would argue SoaS is
 NOT a distro... just a dsitribution mechanism... for example, I call
 my opensuse based sugar on stick SoaS too, as that is technically what
 it is...

 You can call that whatever you want, but please not in public. SoaS
 means a very specific distro, not just any Linux+Sugar slapped onto a
 USB flash drive.

 On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Sean DALYsdaly...@gmail.com wrote:
 I beg everyone's pardon, I was under the impression that SoaS is
 Fedora-specific... are there plans to do versions based on other
 distros?

 No, there are no such plans currently.

 IMHO we should not water down the meaning of SoaS.

 - Bert -

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)

2009-06-18 Thread David Van Assche
right, otherwise, imagine I call the openSUSE cd version SoaC, Sugar
on a CD or even SoaVM Sugar on a Virtual Machine am I the only one
who see the broken logic here?

David Van assche

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Benjamin M.
Schwartzbmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
 This is just a naming problem.  Sugar on a Stick is a generic
 descriptive phrase that has been repurposed as a proper noun.  This
 inevitably leads to confusion, because the two meanings do not agree.

 I encourage the developers of the Fedora-derived image to adopt a new
 name, to solve this problem.  For the new name, I recommend Sugar Labs
 Lollipop.

 --Ben


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[Sugar-devel] linux for education portal

2009-06-18 Thread David Van Assche
Hi there,
   We've just launched a pretty decent start for a linux for education
portal that should contain hundreds (we already have about 50) totally
creative commons or similar free license courses that can be used
online directly (guest access to all courses) or downloaded to export
into one's own e-learning platform (backups are moodle based.) The
site contains howtos, forums, wikipedias and chatrooms, as well as the
traditional Moodle courses on a wide array of subjects across the
board. It is totally free, and will remain that way both in terms of
beer and ideology. We encourage people to take part in it. It is
really not too hard to take an existing howto or wiki entry or
something and turn it into an interactive course. There are plenty of
examples, and there are also courses on Moodle itself and why one
should use it. Currently it may seem quite opensuse-centric, but we
are working hard to make it as generic to linux as possible as we have
noticed that there isn't really such a comprehensive resource out
there on this subject matter. We appreciate all help, so please drop
us a line if you would like to get involved in any way at all.

peace,
David (nubae) Van Assche
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)

2009-06-18 Thread David Van Assche
ok,
  This is becoming silly...
Fedora nor Sugarlabs (and I think I consider myself quite a central
contributor to sugarlabs) does not have a patent, trademark or
anything else that should somehow allow it to kidnap the term sugar on
a stick, which is a far too generic term to be kidnapped by anyone. I
will, and in public too, call any distribution that contains sugar on
a usb/SD or any other kind of stick Sugar on a stick (SoaS) as that is
what it technically is. I'll end the discussion at that as going any
further is probably going to spiral into something resembling a
non-sensical flame war.

David Van Assche


On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:49 PM, James Zakijzgr...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
 +1 Bert and others

 my2cents
 Outside of the opensource world I've seen many non-mainstream groups become
 too thinly spread due the many dedicated individuals involved together. I've
 seen in first hand in a few different sports, and know of it in a couple of
 other examples, such as French left wing political parties.

 I dont want to repeat everyone, but I fully agree with SoaS being Fedora,
 and other distros a seperate thing for those want to do that.
 If distro support was a task for the sweet sugar people there would be less
 resources on actual sugar development.

 Forgive me, as I tend to have a habit of stating the obvious.
 James
 /my2cents


 Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:53:48 +0200
 From: Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de
 Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release
        flurry  planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)
 To: Sugar-dev Devel sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
 Cc: Marketing market...@lists.sugarlabs.org
,  IAEP List
        i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
 Message-ID: 4c153f4b-8bb5-4583-a9a2-f5620667a...@freudenbergs.de
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

 On 18.06.2009, at 20:28, David Van Assche wrote:

 Soas = sugar on a stick whether that be on Fedora, Suse, debian,
 or mandriva... they are all the same thing, and I would argue SoaS is
 NOT a distro... just a dsitribution mechanism... for example, I call
 my opensuse based sugar on stick SoaS too, as that is technically what
 it is...

 You can call that whatever you want, but please not in public. SoaS
 means a very specific distro, not just any Linux+Sugar slapped onto a
 USB flash drive.

 On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Sean DALYsdaly...@gmail.com wrote:
 I beg everyone's pardon, I was under the impression that SoaS is
 Fedora-specific... are there plans to do versions based on other
 distros?

 No, there are no such plans currently.

 IMHO we should not water down the meaning of SoaS.

 - Bert -
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release flurry planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)

2009-06-18 Thread David Van Assche
Sean... u stated it very correctly. Lets leave whats under the hood,
there where its supposed to be... we are driving a car, and whether
thats a mercedes, bmw or ford really shouldnt matter as long as it
drives now if u want specific items in your car or u want your car
to drive in a particular style and speed, then have a look see what
the different car brands do and how they differ but just cause u
like car X, doesn't mean that is the only term used to describe what
it is you are driving...

Thats just one simple analogy, but its relevant to just about anything

SoaS = Sugar on a Stick is a generic term that doesn't in any way hint
at what distro its aimed for. Thats the reason why I suggested sub
SoaS to define distros, like FedSoaS, but whatever... if SoaS is what
most people want to brand the fedora SoaS product, go ahead... but
it'll confuse people for sure..

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:29 PM, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com wrote:
 ok,
  This is becoming silly...
 Fedora nor Sugarlabs (and I think I consider myself quite a central
 contributor to sugarlabs) does not have a patent, trademark or
 anything else that should somehow allow it to kidnap the term sugar on
 a stick, which is a far too generic term to be kidnapped by anyone. I
 will, and in public too, call any distribution that contains sugar on
 a usb/SD or any other kind of stick Sugar on a stick (SoaS) as that is
 what it technically is. I'll end the discussion at that as going any
 further is probably going to spiral into something resembling a
 non-sensical flame war.

 David Van Assche


 On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:49 PM, James Zakijzgr...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
 +1 Bert and others

 my2cents
 Outside of the opensource world I've seen many non-mainstream groups become
 too thinly spread due the many dedicated individuals involved together. I've
 seen in first hand in a few different sports, and know of it in a couple of
 other examples, such as French left wing political parties.

 I dont want to repeat everyone, but I fully agree with SoaS being Fedora,
 and other distros a seperate thing for those want to do that.
 If distro support was a task for the sweet sugar people there would be less
 resources on actual sugar development.

 Forgive me, as I tend to have a habit of stating the obvious.
 James
 /my2cents


 Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:53:48 +0200
 From: Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de
 Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Fwd: [Marketing] Press release
        flurry  planning (LinuxTag - FOSSED - NECC - GUADEC)
 To: Sugar-dev Devel sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
 Cc: Marketing market...@lists.sugarlabs.org
,  IAEP List
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 On 18.06.2009, at 20:28, David Van Assche wrote:

 Soas = sugar on a stick whether that be on Fedora, Suse, debian,
 or mandriva... they are all the same thing, and I would argue SoaS is
 NOT a distro... just a dsitribution mechanism... for example, I call
 my opensuse based sugar on stick SoaS too, as that is technically what
 it is...

 You can call that whatever you want, but please not in public. SoaS
 means a very specific distro, not just any Linux+Sugar slapped onto a
 USB flash drive.

 On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Sean DALYsdaly...@gmail.com wrote:
 I beg everyone's pardon, I was under the impression that SoaS is
 Fedora-specific... are there plans to do versions based on other
 distros?

 No, there are no such plans currently.

 IMHO we should not water down the meaning of SoaS.

 - Bert -
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[Sugar-devel] collaborative testing session (tomorrow's meeting, 17th June) reminder

2009-06-16 Thread David Van Assche
Hi folks,
   This is a reminder about the collaborative sugar testing session we
are having tomorrow, Wednesday 17th June at 19:00 UTC (That is 4 pm
EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and 12 pm PST, most of Europe that
will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK)

We will have a good 10+ people present, if last weeks numbers are
anything to go by. We will be taking notes and storing log files of
the sessions, and will suggest ways in which the activity in question
might be more collaborative, or may need less of it (who knows :-)

We will be testing the activities that come pre-installed on the
openSUSE sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution
methods (virtual appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least
Fedora SoaS, openSUSE sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) There will of
course be a transcript of the irc session too (we will meet at
#sugar-collaboration) and a report like last week. We forsee this
taking between 1 and 2 hours...

Daveb will be doing all the server side monitoring, such as ejabberd
load, etc. Last week's lag should now be fixed as he has added the
shared roster, and enabled gadget.

Here is the list of activities available on the opensuse sugar cd,
although not all are collaboration capable. Make sure you have the
activities you want to collaborate with installed if you plan to take
part:

sugar-finance
etoys
sugar-flipsticks-activity
sugar-freecell
sugar-imageviewer
sugar-implode
sugar-infoslicer
sugar-jigsaw-puzzle-activity
sugar-joke-machine-activity
sugar-jukebox
sugar-labyrinth
sugar-maze
sugar-memorize
sugar-moon
sugar-paint-activity
sugar-pippy
sugar-playgo
sugar-read
sugar-readetexts-activity
sugar-record
sugar-slider-puzzle-activity
sugar-speak
sugar-storybuilder
sugar-tamtam-common
sugar-tamtam-edit
sugar-tamtam-jam
sugar-tamtam-mini
sugar-tamtam-synthlab
sugar-analyze
sugar-turtleart
sugar-typing-turtle
sugar-viewslides
sugar-write
sugar-browse
sugar-irc
sugar-calculate
sugar-xomail (sugar-sweetmail)
sugar-cartoonbuilder
sugar-clock
sugar-colors
sugar-connect
sugar-drgeo-activity
xoEditor
sugar-evince
sugar-fiftytwo
sugar-chat
sugar-terminal
sugar-journal
sugar-physics
sugar-library
sugar-poll
sugar-tuxpaint

kind Regards,
David (nubae) Van Assche
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[Sugar-devel] sugar collaboration session June 10th report

2009-06-11 Thread David Van Assche
Hi,
  I've published the report for our collaboration session which took place
June 10th 2009. Please leave your comments, especially those who took part.

http://www.nubae.com/collaboration-session-sugar-june10

thanks,
David (nubae) Van Assche
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Re: [Sugar-devel] ASLO Suggestion

2009-06-11 Thread David Van Assche
I recommend u take a look at the openSUSE offering. I took a careful look at
the activities available and packaged those that seemed useful, relatively
bug free, and fun. I think we have about 55 activities now.

kind Regards,
David (nubae) Van Assche

On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:09 PM, James Simmons jim.simm...@walgreens.comwrote:

  Aleksey,

 That will teach me to open my mouth.  At the moment the only Activities I'm
 really familiar with are my own, Read, and your Library Activity which isn't
 finished (but would definitely be worthy otherwise).  I'll have to add some
 more Activities to my XO and give them a try.  Any suggestions on what might
 be worth a recommended status will be welcomed.

 Your other ideas sound good, but I still think we need some highly visible
 counts in there.  As someone once said, You gotta tell 'em to sell 'em!

 Thanks,

 James Simmons


 Aleksey Lim wrote:

 You are an editor now and can do the best 
 onhttp://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/editors/featured ;)

 And after fixing #948 all featured activities will appear on main page
 and per category main pages.



  I also question the category GCompris.  I understand these Activities
 are related to each other, but the relationship would not be meaningful
 to a teacher or a student.


  fixed


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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Grassroots-l] collaborative testing session (tomorrow's meeting) reminder

2009-06-10 Thread David Van Assche
Hmm ok, I stand corrected :-) I'm wondering now where I got the 20:00 time
from...

David

On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.dewrote:


 On 09.06.2009, at 16:16, David Van Assche wrote:

 Hi folks,
This is a reminder about the collaborative sugar testing session we are
 having tomorrow, Wednesday 10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm
 EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and 12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8
 pm for the UK)


 Yet again I have to point out you are talking about 19:00 UTC, which on
 June 10th is 4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and 12 pm PST, most of
 Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK


 http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=6day=10year=2009hour=19min=0sec=0p1=0

 - Bert -



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[Sugar-devel] collaborative testing session (tomorrow's meeting) reminder

2009-06-09 Thread David Van Assche
Hi folks,
   This is a reminder about the collaborative sugar testing session we are
having tomorrow, Wednesday 10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm
EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and 12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8
pm for the UK)

We will have a good 5-10 people present, but more are welcome as we really
want to see how collaboration works on many activities where it isn't quite
obvious. We will be taking notes and storing log files of the sessions, and
will suggest ways in which the activity in question might be more
collaborative, or may need less of it (who knows :-)

We will be testing the activities that come pre-installed on the openSUSE
sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution methods (virtual
appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least Fedora SoaS, openSUSE
sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) I dont believe 0.82 images are compatible
with 0.84 for collaboration, so am afraid this is for 0.84 only... Please
post your willingness to participate so we have an idea on who/how many will
be collaborating. We also need a volunteer to take notes, and a volunteer to

store logs files. There will of course be a transcript of the irc session
too (we will meet at #sugar-collaboration) We forsee this taking between 1
and 2 hours...

I need a volunteer that is shell savvy and can track cpu/ram usage on the
server that is running ejabberd. It will be a good opportunity to see real
life results within ejabberd, in terms of bandwidth usage, cpu usage, ram
usage, etc.

Here is the list of activities we will be testing, so make sure you have
them installed if you plan to take part (not all have collaborative
abilities, and for those that don't it can be a brainstorming session on
whether/how we can make them collaborative:

sugar-finance
etoys
sugar-flipsticks-activity
sugar-freecell
sugar-imageviewer
sugar-implode
sugar-infoslicer
sugar-jigsaw-puzzle-activity
sugar-joke-machine-activity
sugar-jukebox
sugar-labyrinth
sugar-maze
sugar-memorize
sugar-moon
sugar-paint-activity
sugar-pippy
sugar-playgo
sugar-read
sugar-readetexts-activity
sugar-record
sugar-slider-puzzle-activity
sugar-speak
sugar-storybuilder
sugar-tamtam-common
sugar-tamtam-edit
sugar-tamtam-jam
sugar-tamtam-mini
sugar-tamtam-synthlab
sugar-analyze
sugar-turtleart
sugar-typing-turtle
sugar-viewslides
sugar-write
sugar-browse
sugar-irc
sugar-calculate
sugar-xomail (sugar-sweetmail)
sugar-cartoonbuilder
sugar-clock
sugar-colors
sugar-connect
sugar-drgeo-activity
xoEditor
sugar-evince
sugar-fiftytwo
sugar-chat
sugar-terminal
sugar-journal
sugar-physics
sugar-library
sugar-poll
sugar-tuxpaint

kind Regards,
David (nubae) Van Assche
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[Sugar-devel] personalisation and collaboration

2009-06-07 Thread David Van Assche
Something has been in the back of my head for a while now, ever since I've
seen the impressive capabilities of being able to share an activity with
your neighbourhood. Being able to cooperatively use applications brings a
new level of playability to it all, and it reminds me of when I first saw
the ability for a computer game to be 'multi-player.'This gave it an extra
dimension, and with it came the idea of awards for completing certain
things, which would be displayed in your dashoard somewhere.The award system
seems even more relevant for education than it did for games. We'v aleady
mentioned the benefits of an award sysem so I'm not going to regugitate
that, but what hasnt''t really been spoken about is, how and what kind of
personal details should the journal store and share. I see this as a
customisable option, something that can be as simple as only sharing first
names, or sharing the name of your pet, your favorite colors and foods, the
languages you speak.

This detailed information about a person is extremely valuable to the
underlying system, as it can potentially match people against each other.
This would allow for some interesting possibilities when it comes to
collaboration, such as the system suggesting users to challenge/collaborate
with based on personal information. I thought about having a robot that
lives on an irc channel capable of helping with the collaboration procedure,
as well as listing achievements, giving data on which users want to
collaborate, giving help on how collaboration works with particular
activities, listing which servers have open collaboration, showing the most
used/highest rated collaborating activities, etc.

I havent thought about this too much in depth, but I know coding a bot is
not too hard. I see it as an extension to the speak AI, and encouragement to
join irc. We can even get the bot to accept uploads of raw learning
materials categorised by subject, which can then be used by content
creators. it itself could give out quizzes based on particular subjects, or
interesting pieces of information/knowledge. It could be taught new
information, by feeding it localised knowledge. It would be important to
know where we set the limits to what it can do.

Just some food for thought...

David (nubae) Van Assche
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Getting data about the upgrading older machines and SoaS responsiveness.

2009-06-07 Thread David Van Assche
When it come to older pcs, it really makes sense to try and use LTSP. We
have created a kiwi-ltsp usb stick for openSUSE, which gives a portable ltsp
server wherever u plug it in. In most cases it would make sense for this to
be the most powerful computer. It is as easy as installing the sugar and
sugar activities meta packages on this usb image and the users on the ltsp
network then have access to Sugar from any computer in the network, and they
are bound to load faster than from a usb image. The advantage is u need one
usb stick per network, as opposed to one for each terminal... that saves
costs, and time. Also, u dont need any of the old hardware, such as cdrom
drives, hard drives, etc. Networking and internet is also no issue as if it
works on the server, it has to work on each of the terminals too...

kind Regards,
David (nubae) Van Assche

On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Frederick Grose fgr...@gmail.com wrote:


 On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Caroline Meeks 
 carol...@solutiongrove.com wrote:

 Let me echo Caryl's question. Do we have a page with tasks for new
 volunteers?


 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/TODO has been restored and
 is ready to be updated, perhaps restructured to cover this need.

  --Fred

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Getting data about the upgrading older machines and SoaS responsiveness.

2009-06-07 Thread David Van Assche
That's a good point, and I understand the thinking behind it, as if you are
not 'changing' anything in an existing setup, people are less afraid that
things might go terribly wrong. That's the reason we have ltsp on a usb
stick... because you can stick in a server, and test it without installing
anything. Think of it as SoaS server with beaurocratic advantages included
(taking care of networking, providing Sugar images, setting up user
accounts, providng collaboration if necessary. It is by no means the XS
server, nor should it try to be that, its just the desktop environment part
with ejabberd, if needed.. of course, it only works in wired environments.

kind Regards,
David (nubae) Van Assche

On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 8:19 PM, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.orgwrote:

 On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 12:24 PM, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  When it come to older pcs, it really makes sense to try and use LTSP. We
  have created a kiwi-ltsp usb stick for openSUSE, which gives a portable
 ltsp
  server wherever u plug it in. In most cases it would make sense for this
 to
  be the most powerful computer. It is as easy as installing the sugar and
  sugar activities meta packages on this usb image and the users on the
 ltsp
  network then have access to Sugar from any computer in the network, and
 they
  are bound to load faster than from a usb image. The advantage is u need
 one
  usb stick per network, as opposed to one for each terminal... that saves
  costs, and time. Also, u dont need any of the old hardware, such as cdrom
  drives, hard drives, etc. Networking and internet is also no issue as if
 it
  works on the server, it has to work on each of the terminals too...

 SoaS is also working on a slightly different issue.

 I didn't understand it until Caroline explained it for about the 100th
 time yesterday:)

 In addition to all the technical hurdles.  Sugar on a Stick is
 tackling the _bureaucratic_ issue of installing and running Sugar (or
 any software) on systems which one doesn't have admin access.

 In many schools it can be difficult to get the authority to install
 software or modify the configuration on their computers.  SoaS
 circumvents that problem by replacing  'install a new OS' with 'insert
 the stick and turn it on.'

 The piece that I was _misunderstanding_ was that all of the
 technically hurdles that SoaS introduces are worth the ability to
 circumvent the bureaucratic hurdles.

 FWIW, at least in developed nations Once you get the bureaucratic
 permission to 'install' Sugar, a client-server configuration is most
 palatable to the existing generation of elementary school sysadmins.

 david

  kind Regards,
  David (nubae) Van Assche
 
  On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Frederick Grose fgr...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Caroline Meeks
  carol...@solutiongrove.com wrote:
 
  Let me echo Caryl's question. Do we have a page with tasks for new
  volunteers?
 
  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/TODO has been restored
 and
  is ready to be updated, perhaps restructured to cover this need.
 
   --Fred
 
  ___
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  i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
  http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
 
 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] personalisation and collaboration

2009-06-07 Thread David Van Assche
Having pondered this a bit more, I came up with a practical example. Lets
say we have a student in Uruguay, lets call him Fernando, and lets say we
have a student in the UK, lets call her Suzy. Suzy's Spanish is not great,
as she hasn't had the chance to delve into it practically, nor is she
getting the right idea about how everyday Spanish is used in Spanish
countries, having relied on terrible cliched examples of her antiquated text
books. Fernando's English is not very good, seeing as the only English he is
subjected to are pirate movies he buys from the local market, so he's
learned more slang than real English. His school isn't even teaching
English, but he desperately wants to learn it.

Colabot knows both of these users, as it has analysed every willing user's
e-portfolio, and knows they would compliment each other perfectly say by
sharing the Speak activity. Colabot could suggest times at which these 2
students could meet virtually and collaborate in order to improve their
language skills. Colabot could keep track of their on going meetings,
showing the amount of hours spent on language learning. Colabot could even
give out an award or recognition after the students had spent X amount of
hours learning together.

The great thing about this example is that it seems to me to be pure
construcionism with technology at its simplest and its best. The 2 students
are teachers to each other, and colabot is there purely in the capacity a
teacher normally should be, to guide the learning process.

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 7:00 AM, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Something has been in the back of my head for a while now, ever since
 I've
  seen the impressive capabilities of being able to share an activity with
  your neighbourhood. Being able to cooperatively use applications brings a
  new level of playability to it all, and it reminds me of when I first saw
  the ability for a computer game to be 'multi-player.'This gave it an
 extra
  dimension, and with it came the idea of awards for completing certain
  things, which would be displayed in your dashoard somewhere.The award
 system
  seems even more relevant for education than it did for games. We'v aleady
  mentioned the benefits of an award sysem so I'm not going to regugitate
  that, but what hasnt''t really been spoken about is, how and what kind of
  personal details should the journal store and share. I see this as a
  customisable option, something that can be as simple as only sharing
 first
  names, or sharing the name of your pet, your favorite colors and foods,
 the
  languages you speak.
 
  This detailed information about a person is extremely valuable to the
  underlying system, as it can potentially match people against each other.
  This would allow for some interesting possibilities when it comes to
  collaboration, such as the system suggesting users to
 challenge/collaborate
  with based on personal information. I thought about having a robot that
  lives on an irc channel capable of helping with the collaboration
 procedure,
  as well as listing achievements, giving data on which users want to
  collaborate, giving help on how collaboration works with particular
  activities, listing which servers have open collaboration, showing the
 most
  used/highest rated collaborating activities, etc.
 
  I havent thought about this too much in depth, but I know coding a bot is
  not too hard. I see it as an extension to the speak AI, and encouragement
 to
  join irc. We can even get the bot to accept uploads of raw learning
  materials categorised by subject, which can then be used by content
  creators. it itself could give out quizzes based on particular subjects,
 or
  interesting pieces of information/knowledge. It could be taught new
  information, by feeding it localised knowledge. It would be important to
  know where we set the limits to what it can do.
 
  Just some food for thought...
 
  David (nubae) Van Assche
 
  ___
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  i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
  http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
 

 In general, the idea of bots living in the Sugar neighborhood is a
 theme we haven't explored very much. It would be nice to come up with
 a simple, consistent framework for creating such a resource. Making it
 available through IRC as well is a cool idea.

 -walter

 --
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 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Journal activity release 101 not tagged in Git

2009-06-06 Thread David Van Assche
And though packaging debian is quite different from doing rpms, I just
finished getting all activities working for openSUSE. There were lots of
little glitches that prevented activities from working,so if u run into any
issues with particular activities, ping me and I might be able to tell u how
to get stuff working. Activities like infoslicer, colors, browse, record,
and Maze come to mind... Generally I've been working directly off the latest
source in gitorious unless there was a required downgrade to another source
(storybuilder)...

kind Regards,
David (nubae)

On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: RIPEMD160

 On Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 10:16:29AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 00:19, Jonas Smedegaardd...@jones.dk wrote:
  On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 04:37:32PM -0400, Frederick Grose wrote:
 You are already on it by virtue of your work and contributions.
  Please edit http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Packaging_Team and its
 pending links/subpages as appropriate.
 
  Ok.  I'll look into that.  Later - I am on my way to bed now (spent
  all of last night finalizing a major ghostscript packaging update).
 
 
 Thank you for contributing so much already! --Fred
 
  Ah, well - my work is just silently absorbed by Ubuntu, and the core
  0.84 packages that I finally got packaged last week does not work at
  all.  Segmentation fault somewhere initially if using Xephyr, and if
  cheating and first running sugar non-emulated (just to create the
  initial account), activities won't start - no debug log messages, no
  nothing.
 
 I'm going to be offline the weekend, but we can look at these issues
 together next week.

 That'd be awesome.  Ping me when you are ready.


  - Jonas

 - --
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 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

 iEYEAREDAAYFAkoqK2sACgkQn7DbMsAkQLgXHwCbB3HYWoh8f0Z/fMITxEkHkwCk
 g7kAn10W91Ha+sNZB1Cqd+KCGkGFS/Ew
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Journal activity release 101 not tagged in Git

2009-06-06 Thread David Van Assche
Maybe if you list some of the problems you are running into, we can help, as
we must have gone through the same issues in order to get it working under
openSUSE, Mandriva, et al.

kind regards,
David (nubae)

On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: RIPEMD160

 On Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 04:52:08PM +0200, David Van Assche wrote:
 And though packaging debian is quite different from doing rpms, I just
 finished getting all activities working for openSUSE. There were lots
 of little glitches that prevented activities from working,so if u run
 into any issues with particular activities, ping me and I might be able
 to tell u how to get stuff working. Activities like infoslicer, colors,
 browse, record, and Maze come to mind... Generally I've been working
 directly off the latest source in gitorious unless there was a required
 downgrade to another source (storybuilder)...

 Thanks.

 Not sure if you know, but I have been packaging for some time (since
 Sugar 0.81) and Sugar 0.82 worked correctly.

 Also, the current trouble is with core Sugar environment, not
 activities.

 That said, I certainly appreciate the offer, and generally I like the
 growth in teams attacking the Sugar code from different angles.  That
 really helps improve code quality for all of us. :-D


  - Jonas

 - --
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  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [math4] Activity Awards, Activity Alerts, Frame Alerts

2009-06-06 Thread David Van Assche
Yeah, due to the lack of resources and time, we didn't get to finalise the
end vision for such an award based system, but the idea came to me due how
successful the collection of these is in computer games. As Gary pointed out
to me, there are even games where the sole purpose is to unlock awards
(which could be as silly as, dying by drowning 42 times.) The concept in
gaming, as adopted by nintendo, sony, and Microsoft, has been a real success
and a means by which to get users 'hooked' to achieving them. If the same
thing can be translated to Sugar, we can have a system which by its nature
pushes users to delve deep into the guts of activities to 'discover' them,
if you will, all the while getting recognition for that discovery. The
coupling of this with collaboration brings together a whole world of
possibilities, many of which have caused measurable excitement within myself
and Gary, as well as others listening/discussing the ideas.

The inital activity we wanted to do this with was a quiz based activity,
where the teacher puts labels on the different parts of a picture s/he has
uploaded and lets the user then fill in the labels. We can measure a whole
host of things, such as, were the labels filled in while connected to the
internet (they could have used wikipedia to gather the information), and
should the user be encouraged to do that or not...

What I guess I'm pointing out is, we need to delve deep into how this should
all work, but the initial concept rocks, and we should try and either adapt
an existing activity (Gary suggested using his moon activity to name the
various parts of it) or make an easy framwork that would allow a teacher to
upload a picture and then tag the various points in the picture together
with the possible answers. Either is fine, though the later is more
desirable as it would allow us to explore the possibilities a little more
deeply, and would allow for the immediate creation of content there for,
which could be easily stored in moodle or an activity meta bundle, or
whatever... So lets decide how we move forwards on this and get to it
then...

kind regards,
David Van Assche

On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:35 AM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote:

 Hi Frederick,

 On 6 Jun 2009, at 00:30, Frederick Grose wrote:

  On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com
  wrote:
  ...
 
  FWIW, David Van Assche raised some interesting Activity ideas at
  SugarCamp Paris and I'm interested/active in getting us to at lease
  'demo' state in the Sugar 0.86 release timeframe. The idea is to focus
  on an 'awards' mechanism/style to encourage exploration and provide
  (sometimes) unexpected rewards. Idea is that Activity authors can
  define a range of badges/medals/icons for certain behaviours/
  accomplishment in an attempt to get students to dig deeper (mix of
  'easter eggs' and specific goals). It's mainly Activity side work (a
  demo activity to start with) but perhaps could find a home in the
  Journal (through an ability of Activity to set some private entry tag
  and for Journal to display that in a user appealing graphical form).
 
  Even for something as hard to measure as the Write Activity, there
  could be 'awards' (hidden or hinted at) for things like found 10 or
  more collaborators for one document, gained at least 100 words each
  from 5 or more collaborators, wrote more than 1,000 words, you
  used the word entomology!. The idea is many would be hidden
  (surprise, you did something cool!) and that some initial more
  obvious and visible 'awards' would hint that others were there for
  discovery.
 
  Regards,
  --Gary
 
  P.S. Mechanisms for 'awards' could hook into services like Moodle, the
  Journal, or via collaboration (so perhaps a shared Write session would
  show awards gained by the collaborators). Having a view to show all
  Activity Awards would also be a good driver (could be an activity, or
  ideally at some point part of Journal). The general idea for awards
  drifts in from the gaming environment, where awards are used to
  increase re-playability and tempt folks to try some other possible
  path.
  ...
 
  Nice concept.
 
  Some design and code integration with Activity Alerts,
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Almanac/sugar.graphics.alert
  ,
  and Frame alerts,
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Designs/Frame#12
  , http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Designs/Frame#13, etc.
  may be appropriate.

 Yep, I imagine it's being up to the activity how it reveals a new
 'award' being reached, but it could be as simple as showing an
 activity alert message (perhaps as a default design guideline for
 awards, if it is accepted), or some fancy splash/animation if the
 activity deems it appropriate.

  http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/722 has some discussion.  I would
  like to see more noticeable messages for chat invitation alerts, for
  example.

 I think this is intended more for Activities (or Sugar shell

Re: [Sugar-devel] [math4] Activity Awards, Activity Alerts, Frame Alerts

2009-06-06 Thread David Van Assche
 of a picture s/he
 has
  uploaded and lets the user then fill in the labels. We can measure a
 whole
  host of things, such as, were the labels filled in while connected to the
  internet (they could have used wikipedia to gather the information), and
  should the user be encouraged to do that or not...
 
  What I guess I'm pointing out is, we need to delve deep into how this
 should
  all work, but the initial concept rocks, and we should try and either
 adapt
  an existing activity (Gary suggested using his moon activity to name the
  various parts of it) or make an easy framwork that would allow a teacher
 to
  upload a picture and then tag the various points in the picture together
  with the possible answers. Either is fine, though the later is more
  desirable as it would allow us to explore the possibilities a little more
  deeply, and would allow for the immediate creation of content there for,
  which could be easily stored in moodle or an activity meta bundle, or
  whatever... So lets decide how we move forwards on this and get to it
  then...
 
  kind regards,
  David Van Assche
 
  On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:35 AM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com
 wrote:
 
  Hi Frederick,
 
  On 6 Jun 2009, at 00:30, Frederick Grose wrote:
 
   On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com
   wrote:
   ...
  
   FWIW, David Van Assche raised some interesting Activity ideas at
   SugarCamp Paris and I'm interested/active in getting us to at lease
   'demo' state in the Sugar 0.86 release timeframe. The idea is to focus
   on an 'awards' mechanism/style to encourage exploration and provide
   (sometimes) unexpected rewards. Idea is that Activity authors can
   define a range of badges/medals/icons for certain behaviours/
   accomplishment in an attempt to get students to dig deeper (mix of
   'easter eggs' and specific goals). It's mainly Activity side work (a
   demo activity to start with) but perhaps could find a home in the
   Journal (through an ability of Activity to set some private entry tag
   and for Journal to display that in a user appealing graphical form).
  
   Even for something as hard to measure as the Write Activity, there
   could be 'awards' (hidden or hinted at) for things like found 10 or
   more collaborators for one document, gained at least 100 words each
   from 5 or more collaborators, wrote more than 1,000 words, you
   used the word entomology!. The idea is many would be hidden
   (surprise, you did something cool!) and that some initial more
   obvious and visible 'awards' would hint that others were there for
   discovery.
  
   Regards,
   --Gary
  
   P.S. Mechanisms for 'awards' could hook into services like Moodle, the
   Journal, or via collaboration (so perhaps a shared Write session would
   show awards gained by the collaborators). Having a view to show all
   Activity Awards would also be a good driver (could be an activity, or
   ideally at some point part of Journal). The general idea for awards
   drifts in from the gaming environment, where awards are used to
   increase re-playability and tempt folks to try some other possible
   path.
   ...
  
   Nice concept.
  
   Some design and code integration with Activity Alerts,
  
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Almanac/sugar.graphics.alert
   ,
   and Frame alerts,
   http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Designs/Frame#12
   , http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Designs/Frame#13, etc.
   may be appropriate.
 
  Yep, I imagine it's being up to the activity how it reveals a new
  'award' being reached, but it could be as simple as showing an
  activity alert message (perhaps as a default design guideline for
  awards, if it is accepted), or some fancy splash/animation if the
  activity deems it appropriate.
 
   http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/722 has some discussion.  I would
   like to see more noticeable messages for chat invitation alerts, for
   example.
 
  I think this is intended more for Activities (or Sugar shell) in the
  background to get your attention, but I guess it could be appropriated
  also for awards. I'll keep it in mind, thanks.
 
   Don't know where this is recorded for the Sugar 0.86 roadmap,
  
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Release/Roadmap/0.86#Proposal_Goals
   ?
 
  It's not there. Though it did get discussed at SugarCamp Paris (along
  with a many other good ideas). I see awards as happening first as a
  single Activity demonstrator, not initially needing any Sugar
  integration work or time, but I (and David) would like to see it in
  the same time frame as 0.86. If it works, and is of demonstrable
  value, then we have fair grounds to lobby for the integration of
  useful/generic code, already written, into Sugar 0.88 for other
  Activities to easily reuse.
 
   The software infrastructure you propose could also be used for
   random or rule-based, single-point lesson reminders or reinforcers
   of learning.
 
  Yep :-)
 
  Regards

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] collaboration testing session

2009-06-05 Thread David Van Assche
Well as we just discussed in irc, some activities will actually share and
allow for collaboration, but the vast majority do not and/or dont work
between different distribution methods. In any case we can certainly try
some out and send you the log files to dissect, in case u cannot make it.

kind regards,
David (nubae)

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote:

 On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 06:09, David Van Asschedvanass...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Hi folks,
 We are having a collaborative sugar testing session next week
 Wednesday
  10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST,
 and
  12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK)
 
  So far we have 5 people signed up, but more are welcome as we really want
 to
  see how collaboration works on many activities where it isn't quite
 obvious.
  We will be taking notes and storing log files of the sessions, and will
  suggest ways in which the activity in question might be more
 collaborative,
  or may need less of it (who knows :-)
 
  We will be testing the activities that come preinstalled on the openSUSE
  sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution methods (virtual
  appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least Fedora SoaS,
 openSUSE
  sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) I dont believe 0.82 images are
 compatible
  with 0.84 for collaboration, so am afraid this is for 0.84 only...

 What do you mean by compatible for collaboration and why do you
 think it won't work between 0.82 and 0.84?

 Regards,

 Tomeu

  Please
  post your willingness to participate so we have an idea on who/how many
 will
  be collaborating. We also need a volunteer to take notes, and a volunteer
 to
  store logs files. There will of course be a transcript of the irc session
  too (we will meet at #sugar-collaboration) We forsee this taking between
 1
  and 2 hours...
 
  Here is the list of activities we will be testing, so make sure you have
  them installed if you plan to take part (not all have collaborative
  abilities, and for those that don't it can be a brainstorming session on
  whether/how we can make them collaborative:
 
  sugar-finance
  sugar-flipsticks-activity
  sugar-freecell
  sugar-imageviewer
  sugar-implode
  sugar-infoslicer
  sugar-jigsaw-puzzle-activity
  sugar-joke-machine-activity
  sugar-jukebox
  sugar-labyrinth
  sugar-maze
  sugar-memorize
  sugar-moon
  sugar-paint-activity
  sugar-pippy
  sugar-playgo
  sugar-read
  sugar-readetexts-activity
  sugar-record
  sugar-slider-puzzle-activity
  sugar-speak
  sugar-storybuilder
  sugar-tamtam-common
  sugar-tamtam-edit
  sugar-tamtam-jam
  sugar-tamtam-mini
  sugar-tamtam-synthlab
  sugar-analyze
  sugar-turtleart
  sugar-typing-turtle
  sugar-viewslides
  sugar-write
  sugar-browse
  sugar-irc
  sugar-calculate
  sugar-xomail (sugar-sweetmail)
  sugar-cartoonbuilder
  sugar-clock
  sugar-colors
  sugar-connect
  sugar-drgeo-activity
  xoEditor
  sugar-evince
  sugar-fiftytwo
  sugar-chat
  sugar-terminal
  sugar-journal
  sugar-physics
  sugar-library
  sugar-poll
  sugar-tuxpaint
 
  kind Regards,
  David (nubae) Van Assche
  www.nubae.com
 
 
  ___
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  i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
  http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
 

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Re: [Sugar-devel] collaboration testing session

2009-06-05 Thread David Van Assche
Ok, etoys included too..

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.dewrote:


 On 05.06.2009, at 06:09, David Van Assche wrote:

 Hi folks,
We are having a collaborative sugar testing session next week Wednesday
 10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and
 12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK)

 So far we have 5 people signed up, but more are welcome as we really want
 to see how collaboration works on many activities where it isn't quite
 obvious. We will be taking notes and storing log files of the sessions, and
 will suggest ways in which the activity in question might be more
 collaborative, or may need less of it (who knows :-)

 We will be testing the activities that come preinstalled on the openSUSE
 sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution methods (virtual
 appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least Fedora SoaS, openSUSE
 sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) I dont believe 0.82 images are compatible
 with 0.84 for collaboration, so am afraid this is for 0.84 only... Please
 post your willingness to participate so we have an idea on who/how many will
 be collaborating. We also need a volunteer to take notes, and a volunteer to

 store logs files. There will of course be a transcript of the irc session
 too (we will meet at #sugar-collaboration) We forsee this taking between 1
 and 2 hours...

 Here is the list of activities we will be testing, so make sure you have
 them installed if you plan to take part (not all have collaborative
 abilities, and for those that don't it can be a brainstorming session on
 whether/how we can make them collaborative:


 What's the reason you exclude Etoys, which does support collaboration?

 - Bert -



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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] collaboration testing session

2009-06-05 Thread David Van Assche
Yeah as stated, we will use the default jabber server which is the solutions
grove one I guess... or are u talking about another one?

David

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 4:38 PM, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.orgwrote:

 David,

 Can you try to use the Solutions Groovy jabber server?  Caroline and
 Dave are putting some very helpful resources behind cleaning up the
 server.

 david(The other one)

 On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 7:37 AM, Caroline Meekssolutiongr...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Hi David,
 
  Will you be using the server hosted by Solution Grove/Zill?  We would be
  very happy if you did.
 
  We have seen mysterious spikes in resource usage that is not correlated
 to
  the number of users connected.  I am suspicious that some of the
 activities
  use too many resources when they are shared.  I'd like to set it up so
 that
  someone on your team has access to what is going on on the server so you
 can
  try to correlate any spikes to specific activities.
 
  Thanks,
  Caroline
 
  On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 12:09 AM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  Hi folks,
 We are having a collaborative sugar testing session next week
 Wednesday
  10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST,
 and
  12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK)
 
  So far we have 5 people signed up, but more are welcome as we really
 want
  to see how collaboration works on many activities where it isn't quite
  obvious. We will be taking notes and storing log files of the sessions,
 and
  will suggest ways in which the activity in question might be more
  collaborative, or may need less of it (who knows :-)
 
  We will be testing the activities that come preinstalled on the openSUSE
  sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution methods
 (virtual
  appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least Fedora SoaS,
 openSUSE
  sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) I dont believe 0.82 images are
 compatible
  with 0.84 for collaboration, so am afraid this is for 0.84 only...
 Please
  post your willingness to participate so we have an idea on who/how many
 will
  be collaborating. We also need a volunteer to take notes, and a
 volunteer to
  store logs files. There will of course be a transcript of the irc
 session
  too (we will meet at #sugar-collaboration) We forsee this taking between
 1
  and 2 hours...
 
  Here is the list of activities we will be testing, so make sure you have
  them installed if you plan to take part (not all have collaborative
  abilities, and for those that don't it can be a brainstorming session on
  whether/how we can make them collaborative:
 
  sugar-finance
  sugar-flipsticks-activity
  sugar-freecell
  sugar-imageviewer
  sugar-implode
  sugar-infoslicer
  sugar-jigsaw-puzzle-activity
  sugar-joke-machine-activity
  sugar-jukebox
  sugar-labyrinth
  sugar-maze
  sugar-memorize
  sugar-moon
  sugar-paint-activity
  sugar-pippy
  sugar-playgo
  sugar-read
  sugar-readetexts-activity
  sugar-record
  sugar-slider-puzzle-activity
  sugar-speak
  sugar-storybuilder
  sugar-tamtam-common
  sugar-tamtam-edit
  sugar-tamtam-jam
  sugar-tamtam-mini
  sugar-tamtam-synthlab
  sugar-analyze
  sugar-turtleart
  sugar-typing-turtle
  sugar-viewslides
  sugar-write
  sugar-browse
  sugar-irc
  sugar-calculate
  sugar-xomail (sugar-sweetmail)
  sugar-cartoonbuilder
  sugar-clock
  sugar-colors
  sugar-connect
  sugar-drgeo-activity
  xoEditor
  sugar-evince
  sugar-fiftytwo
  sugar-chat
  sugar-terminal
  sugar-journal
  sugar-physics
  sugar-library
  sugar-poll
  sugar-tuxpaint
 
  kind Regards,
  David (nubae) Van Assche
  www.nubae.com
 
 
  ___
  IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
  i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
  http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
 
 
 
  --
  Caroline Meeks
  Solution Grove
  carol...@solutiongrove.com
 
  617-500-3488 - Office
  505-213-3268 - Fax
 
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[Sugar-devel] collaboration testing session

2009-06-04 Thread David Van Assche
Hi folks,
   We are having a collaborative sugar testing session next week Wednesday
10th June at 20:00 UTC (That is 4 pm EDT, 3pm EST, 2 pm CST, 1 pm MST, and
12 pm PST, most of Europe that will be 9 pm, 8 pm for the UK)

So far we have 5 people signed up, but more are welcome as we really want to
see how collaboration works on many activities where it isn't quite obvious.
We will be taking notes and storing log files of the sessions, and will
suggest ways in which the activity in question might be more collaborative,
or may need less of it (who knows :-)

We will be testing the activities that come preinstalled on the openSUSE
sugar images, but we'd like to test various distribution methods (virtual
appliance, cd, usb, hd) and various distros (at least Fedora SoaS, openSUSE
sugar, Mandriva or Caixa Magica) I dont believe 0.82 images are compatible
with 0.84 for collaboration, so am afraid this is for 0.84 only... Please
post your willingness to participate so we have an idea on who/how many will
be collaborating. We also need a volunteer to take notes, and a volunteer to

store logs files. There will of course be a transcript of the irc session
too (we will meet at #sugar-collaboration) We forsee this taking between 1
and 2 hours...

Here is the list of activities we will be testing, so make sure you have
them installed if you plan to take part (not all have collaborative
abilities, and for those that don't it can be a brainstorming session on
whether/how we can make them collaborative:

sugar-finance
sugar-flipsticks-activity
sugar-freecell
sugar-imageviewer
sugar-implode
sugar-infoslicer
sugar-jigsaw-puzzle-activity
sugar-joke-machine-activity
sugar-jukebox
sugar-labyrinth
sugar-maze
sugar-memorize
sugar-moon
sugar-paint-activity
sugar-pippy
sugar-playgo
sugar-read
sugar-readetexts-activity
sugar-record
sugar-slider-puzzle-activity
sugar-speak
sugar-storybuilder
sugar-tamtam-common
sugar-tamtam-edit
sugar-tamtam-jam
sugar-tamtam-mini
sugar-tamtam-synthlab
sugar-analyze
sugar-turtleart
sugar-typing-turtle
sugar-viewslides
sugar-write
sugar-browse
sugar-irc
sugar-calculate
sugar-xomail (sugar-sweetmail)
sugar-cartoonbuilder
sugar-clock
sugar-colors
sugar-connect
sugar-drgeo-activity
xoEditor
sugar-evince
sugar-fiftytwo
sugar-chat
sugar-terminal
sugar-journal
sugar-physics
sugar-library
sugar-poll
sugar-tuxpaint

kind Regards,
David (nubae) Van Assche
www.nubae.com
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[Sugar-devel] Sugar on suse and virtualised appliances to cheat network connectivity

2009-05-31 Thread David Van Assche
So, this Sunday marks a special day for us openSUSE folks, as we've now
managed to get pretty much every activity behaving, including the underlying
journaling and collaboration. We've got more than 50 activities packaged and
included in the live cd/usb/dvd/virtual appliance. By using the incredible
flexibility and power that oBS gives us, with just 2 people working on this
project, we've managed move forwards fast and efficiently. So we are proud
to announce that you can download the latest releases here:
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Education/images/

As you can see, the main directory contains .vmdk virtual appliances which
have been tested to run on both Vitualbox (Sun's free virtual container
system) as well as vmware and its host of virtualisation software.
Advantages to running an appliance include bypassing wireless/wired network
card drivers as the host can really be running pretty much anything from OSX
to Windows. This will also be a way to get Sugar running on any Mac
regardless, and pretty much and hardware. Its also a good way to run sugar
on ed/ubuntu and debian based systems. Though a tad slower than on a native
system (running without virtualisation), the advantages clearly outweigh the
disadvantages. In the iso subdirectory you can find pure sugar or the full
openSUSE-edu suite, containing a good 2.4 gigs of educational material
including an icon to launch sugar directly from the desktop, a live LTSP
system, iTalc, and a host of other interesting software. For more
information on virtualisation, vmware, virtualbox and how to get sugar
working within these environments have a look here:
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VMware

Currently the only application not running is Read, which requires some
updated GDK stuff from gnome 2.26, which is currently not entirely working
with Sugar on openSUSE, but within the next weeks we should be able to
resolve this. We are searching for more activities to include, as well as,
seeing what we can do artistically at the different stages such as booting
up, session manager, etc. Currently we automatically get the system to join
the sugarlabs ejabberd server for collaboration, and after testing quite a
few applications we can confidently say this works quite well. So its nice
to see openSUSE being one of the more advanced Sugar environments now...
seeing as a couple of weeks ago we had a very broken environment

kind Regards,
David Van Assche
www.nubae.com
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SoaS] Request for Artwork: Boot Screen

2009-05-30 Thread David Van Assche
Yeah, this is also something that is relevant and usable across distros, so
lets try and make it distro agnostic

David

On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:

 Well, I'd like to do a mockup of my idea (tonight), post it to the
 wiki under Gary's, and have feedback from the Design Team about both

 The splash/progress page is a key moment of a Learner's interaction
 with Sugar, let's explore its possibilities before finalizing it

 thanks

 Sean



 On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 1:39 PM, Sebastian Dziallas sebast...@when.com
 wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  this is just great - thanks a lot for working on it so quickly! :)
 
  It looks really promising! Let me know if you want me to grab the .png
 files
  from somewhere to build a test package...
 
  --Sebastian
 
  Sean DALY wrote:
 
  wow Gary you were up all night on that
 
  Yes by all means back on list
 
  I really like the logo cycling through our colors, it's a golden
  rule of marketing to not change logo colors and we break it with
  panache (each press release PDF has a different color theme too)
 
  i want to mock up with kid avatars around Activity icons
 
  I build animated GIFs the old-fashioned imagemagick way:
  $ convert -delay 20 progress-*.png animation.gif
 
  I'll upload something today thanks
 
  Sean
 
 
  On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com
   wrote:
 
  Hi Folks,
 
  Just to get a basic, safe, default starting point in there, I've
 uploaded
  one simple treatment to:
 
 
 
 
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Boot_Logo#Sugar_Boot_Logo_Animations
 
  Will try to upload a couple more tomorrow.
 
  Night,
  --Gary
 
  P.S. Should pull this back on list, your call Sean, but probably worth
  getting a couple more ideas up so that folks can input to some
  alternative
  treatments.
 
  On 30 May 2009, at 00:58, Sean DALY wrote:
 
  Christian, Eben
 
  I'm not sure if you are on sugar-devel but this is I think an
  outstanding opportunity for Sugar branding, celebrating Sugar
  interface.iconography and greeting children.
 
  I know nothing about the plymouth boot animator, but i deduce that
  consecutively named files will do the trick
 
  I'm willing to attack this but before I try scraping screenshots, do
  you guys have any interface assets i could grab?
 
  Input greatly appreciated
 
  thanks
 
  Sean
 
 
 
  On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:32 AM, Sean DALYsdaly...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  Maybe we could work on it together?
 
  here's my idea like my booth rollup banner mockup which Christian
  7 Eben both liked, I want to stay as much as possible within the
 Sugar
  HIG and iconography.
 
 
  boot should start with our logo ... smaller than in the previous SoaS
  ... (not sure yet if should be with or without labs)
 
  The ring is iconic ... I want to keep a ring at boot... but instead
 of
  dots, I want XO avatars - kids!
 
  In the middle... each succeeding image with a colored Activity
 icon...
  matched to the corresponding XO avatar appearing in the ring. So kids
  understand that Activities are for them.
 
  And ending with... kids around the Journal!
 
  Alternate idea: cycling through the 12 logo color combos?
 
  Not mutually exclusive... logo could be on the bottom of ring
 
  What do you think?
 
  thanks
 
  Sean
 
  P.S. I've actually done something similar with a titling sequence for
  a short film. I started with the final image and wiped elements,
  backing down to the first image
 
  I use imagemagick a lot no problem to create a script which could
  inject arbitrary text into a ppm file
 
 
 
 
  On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com
 
  wrote:
 
  Hi Sean,
  FYI, this came in off list.
  Regards,
  --G
 
  Begin forwarded message:
 
  From: James Zakijames.z...@gmail.com
  Date: 29 May 2009 22:24:06 BST
  To: Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com
  Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Request for Artwork: Boot Screen
  I'm in touch with a design company who owes me a favour or two.
 
  I could get them to whip up some concept designs for inspiration?
 
  James
 
 
  2009/5/29 Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com
 
  On 29 May 2009, at 21:37, Sean DALY wrote:
 
  Sebastian, Gary
 
  I'd like to take a stab at it, I've actually had an idea brewing
 for
  awhile
 
  Cool, shout if you need extra hands/review.
 
  --G
 
  What's the deadline please?
 
  thanks
  Sean
 
 
 
 
  On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Gary C Martin
  g...@garycmartin.com  wrote:
 
  On 29 May 2009, at 18:41, Sebastian Dziallas wrote:
 
  Hi folks,
 
  sorry for the short notice, but this is rather urgent. I've been
  spending yesterday afternoon to update the packages in our SoaS
  Yum
  repo
  to reflect the changes for Fedora 11.
 
  As it turned out, the plymouth package has been partly
 rewritten,
  and I
  was wondering (also with regard to #709), how we wanted to deal
  with a
  new boot screen. For now, I've just implemented the old Sugar
 logo
  again, but 

[Sugar-devel] classroom presenter, iTalc for sugar (possible ports for LinuxTag Berlin showoff)

2009-05-28 Thread David Van Assche
Hi,
   At LinuxTag Berlin, there are 3 areas that are of particular interest to
me, and might be considered novelties in the way sugar can/will be presented
there. From one side, I will be representing sugar packaging on the openSUSE
platform, and being part of the opensuse-edu team, we will show off not only
the live suse sugar cd/usb stick, but also the tight integration (including
desktop launch icon) of sugar within the openSUSE 11.1 educational spin.
Since kiwi-ltsp (A mature variant of LTSP 5) is quite integrated in the
educational desktop, as is ejabberd, we will show off LTSP sugarised, with
the approximately 50 sugar activities that have been packaged for openSUSE.
Within the LTSP framework, we often use an application called iTalc, which
allows for the remote administration (vnc on steroids) of desktop sessions,
locking of sessions, passing around of sessions (for the classroom
environment) as well as, intra station messaging (in case a particular
station needs administrative help/training/support.) Right now, it runs
great on the administrator machine, which doesn't need to and won't run
Sugar. Basically from this view one can see screenshots of each desktop and
by clicking on the desktop in question, one takes over or shares that
session with that particular sugar user. There is more explanation and
screenshots here: http://italc.sourceforge.net/
On the client side, it would be nice for someone to study how hard it would
be to port to sugar. Its not massively important since it runs from gnome,
but for scenarios where sugar is the only Desktop Environment, it would be
nice to have this kind of controlling mechanism for the teacher/admin. For
example, the teacher could collaboratively work on one session connected to
a projector, and pass that session on friom student to student, with each of
them carrying out some task. I have seen it used this way under Gnome with
great success, and as Sugar is collaborative by nature, it seems like a
perfect fit. So any sugar porting takers?

On another note, I have successfully tested the home made whiteboard option
using a wiimote and infra red pens. This approach allows for the building of
an interactive whiteboard for under 50 euros. Unfortunately, the best
software to use for something like this is classroom presenter, originally
windows software allowing one to open a powerpoint/impress presenation and
then draw upon that using the infra red pen. Classroom presenter was ported
to sugar at one point. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Classroom_Presenter , but
I'm not sure about its current status, only that it doesn't currently work.
Again, it would be nice to fix this activity so we can show it off at
LinuxTag and show people how to create a cheap sugarised interactive
whiteboard for under 50 euros. If someone is interested in getting this
activity working again for Sugar, that would be great.

kind Regards,
David (nubae) Van Assche
www.nubae.com
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] classroom presenter, iTalc for sugar (possible ports for LinuxTag Berlin showoff)

2009-05-28 Thread David Van Assche
Hi,
  Caroline, that is exactly how iTalc works. The teacher can pass on the
session to one or groups of students, so it becomes a great way for everyone
to join in. If you are going to be at LinuxTag, I can do a quick demo so u
can see how this would work in a real teaching environment. I have also been
testing the wiimote whiteboard solution, which is truly outstanding. The
solution works better than I had projected (no pun intended) and though I
have not been able to run it inside Sugar yet, Classroom Presenter is a
great tool for this. Basically its like having a really big touchpad on the
projection screen, and up to 4 people can use the infra red pens at once.
Again, this allows for some pretty neat collaborative abilities. Tony
Anderson is working on the next version of Classroom presenter which should
also be able to read out slides. He will be at LinuxTag, and hopefully we
can put together some kind of demonstration of how the wiimote works with
it. Same goes for iTalc and LTSP. So its all looking good... The wiimote
whiteboard software runs on Linux, Windows and Mac (more info here:
http://www.uweschmidt.org/wiimote-whiteboard) with up to 2 concurrent pens,
smoothing callibration (how straight a line u can draw) and basically turns
an infra red pen into a mouse pointer. By using single click and double
click u can pretty much control the computer from the projector screen,
including doing really neat stuff in gimp, sugar-paint, inkscape, and
classroom presenter. Even things like google earth being controlled this way
is very very cool. The cost of all the necessary items is under 50 euros, so
this is truly an amazing solution that can be adopted in 3rd world countries
too. For the same functionality, you'd normally be paying thousands of
euros, and the stuff would still require extra licenses, etc. All the
software to run this is free, and I hope we can get some more testing done
in this area at LinuxTag, including a moodle tutorial, and how/where to get
the software.

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Caroline Meeks solutiongr...@gmail.comwrote:

 +1 on the importance of iTalc like functionality.  If that is something
 Windows/Apple can do and Sugar  can't its going to hurt adoption.

 It would be cool if students could also become the presenters so the
 teacher could ask a student in the room to explain how a problem was done
 and pass control over to that student for a while.

 On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 2:17 AM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi,
At LinuxTag Berlin, there are 3 areas that are of particular interest
 to me, and might be considered novelties in the way sugar can/will be
 presented there. From one side, I will be representing sugar packaging on
 the openSUSE platform, and being part of the opensuse-edu team, we will show
 off not only the live suse sugar cd/usb stick, but also the tight
 integration (including desktop launch icon) of sugar within the openSUSE
 11.1 educational spin. Since kiwi-ltsp (A mature variant of LTSP 5) is quite
 integrated in the educational desktop, as is ejabberd, we will show off LTSP
 sugarised, with the approximately 50 sugar activities that have been
 packaged for openSUSE. Within the LTSP framework, we often use an
 application called iTalc, which allows for the remote administration (vnc on
 steroids) of desktop sessions, locking of sessions, passing around of
 sessions (for the classroom environment) as well as, intra station messaging
 (in case a particular station needs administrative help/training/support.)
 Right now, it runs great on the administrator machine, which doesn't need to
 and won't run Sugar. Basically from this view one can see screenshots of
 each desktop and by clicking on the desktop in question, one takes over or
 shares that session with that particular sugar user. There is more
 explanation and screenshots here: http://italc.sourceforge.net/
 On the client side, it would be nice for someone to study how hard it
 would be to port to sugar. Its not massively important since it runs from
 gnome, but for scenarios where sugar is the only Desktop Environment, it
 would be nice to have this kind of controlling mechanism for the
 teacher/admin. For example, the teacher could collaboratively work on one
 session connected to a projector, and pass that session on friom student to
 student, with each of them carrying out some task. I have seen it used this
 way under Gnome with great success, and as Sugar is collaborative by nature,
 it seems like a perfect fit. So any sugar porting takers?

 On another note, I have successfully tested the home made whiteboard
 option using a wiimote and infra red pens. This approach allows for the
 building of an interactive whiteboard for under 50 euros. Unfortunately, the
 best software to use for something like this is classroom presenter,
 originally windows software allowing one to open a powerpoint/impress
 presenation and then draw upon that using the infra red pen. Classroom

Re: [Sugar-devel] Usage scenarios for Sugar?

2009-05-26 Thread David Van Assche
Where is the source? I dont see anything since march in git.sugarlabs.org

David (nubae)

On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 6:32 PM, James Simmons jim.simm...@walgreens.comwrote:

 Sean,

 I'm blowing my own horn here, but I just finished a new version of Read
 Etexts that might be worth a look.  The new version has a Books tab
 that lets you search the Project Gutenberg offline catalog and download
 titles to the Journal.  Gutenberg has lots of Juvenile books as well as
 well known books by European authors in their original languages.  I
 posted it on ASLO yesterday, with new screenshots.

 In addition to the catalog search, if you run it on SoaS you can use the
 Speech tab to read the book aloud with word highlighting.  Many
 different voices are available, so for instance you could use a French
 voice for the works of Dumas and Verne.

 The books are plain text, no pictures, but if I say so myself Read
 Etexts has become impressive in a way it never has been before.

 For books with pictures you could suggest a visit to the Internet
 Archive website to get books in PDF format that Read could use.  There
 are some remarkable PDFs of scanned in book pages there.

 James Simmons

  Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 20:03:40 +0200
  From: Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com
  Subject: [Sugar-devel] Usage scenarios for Sugar?
  To: Sugar Labs Marketing market...@lists.sugarlabs.org, iaep
i...@lists.sugarlabs.org, Sugar Devel
sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
  Message-ID:
378b2b050905221103p1f5dbb29s935bc0b0c8543...@mail.gmail.com
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
 
  Hi everyone, we have been contacted by a monthly tech publication in
  Europe willing to devote several pages to Sugar in their summer issue!
 
  More specifically, advising parents how to download  run SoaS and do
  educational stuff with their kids during the summer holidays.
 
 
  Off the top of my head I suggested a scenario where Memorize is
  customized with family photos, a Turtle Art lesson, ...
 
  Suggestions please!
 
  thanks
 
  Sean

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Help to Find the PO file of Some Activities to able me to Translate Them

2009-05-25 Thread David Van Assche
Well the main thing here is about demoing... I've taken it upon myself to
package about 50 activities... including fructose and glucose... now... we
have things like flash which isnt an xo bundle, though many people believe
it could/should be, and that would/should be considered a honey app, but it
must be installed via rpm Really the only process required with the new
jhconvert alexey has been working on is upload to git, then jhconvert
creates the packages for the all the distros, including the .xo bundles...
so really we want to make it as easy as authors not having to worry about
packaging at all... just about uploading their latest source to
git.sugarlabs.org, the only place the source really needs to be... we can
automate the rest... but your process is currently the only sane thing I've
seen written up and it'd be a shame to loose it in the anals of archived
emails... so better wiki than nothing, no?

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote:

 On 25 May 2009, at 12:33, David Van Assche wrote:

  Super... that methodology should be written up some place as its a great
 guide to follow...


 I'd much rather try and find some agreement to cut un-necessary steps,
 rather than to wikify/formalise it and push every unfortunate Activity
 author through the same sausage factory! :-)

 /me puts on tinfoil hat and asbestos socks

 I've still not heard a good argument for why Activity authors currently
 need to create two bundles with identical source content (one .xo zip and
 one .bz2), upload them to two different locations, and document them in
 several different places. It's really easy to get out of sync. I'm also
 still not convinced about the sanity of distros needing to package up each
 individual Activity (other than perhaps sucrose as one collection). If, for
 a moment, you think of Sugar as a Firefox, and Activities as Addons, does
 each distro really consider packaging up every Addon kicking about for
 Firefox? Once a Sugar release and its platform dependancies are yum,
 aptitude, or whatever installed; the Sugar UI should then be the one to
 add/update additional Activities (via Browse as currently, or via a future
 update control panel checking with activity.sugarlabs.org).

 Regards,
 --Gary


  David

 On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com
 wrote:
 Hi David,


 On 24 May 2009, at 11:47, David Van Assche wrote:

 Overall it would be nice if we had an activitiy matrix that showed the
 stages of projects.

 The Activity Team have been making contact with past authors, slowly,
 slowly we're moving along even if it means adopting extra activities
 ourselves:


   http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activity_Team/Activity_Status

 The best thing folks can do If they have a favourite activity that is not
 yet migrated to Sugar Labs infrastructure is make some noise about it. Email
 the IAEP and/or sugar-devel and advocate or ask about it, email the
 author/s, see if they are still working on it or have future plans. Many
 activity developers seem to think no one is interested/using their work and
 often seem pleasantly surprised when they get an email about their past
 efforts.


 This would be helpful to show what people could work on to. Something
 like, name of activity on one side, and on the other stage (planning,
 pre-source, alpha, beta, rc, release, packaged, xo bundled, translated)
 Something along those lines, but I'm sure someone can come up with a better
 matrix. If this was up at some place, we could know pretty quickly what
 people could be working on. It could even be split by distro too... The idea
 came to me because there are a ton of git projects with no code in them.

 If there are git projects with no code in them, what makes you think the
 developer will edit another page somewhere else with project status
 information! ;-b

 With my activity developer hat on, I do find it a pain how many seemingly
 random places there are to work on when releasing a new version, even more
 for a new project, or migrated one. My check-list/todo-list is something
 like:

 If it's a new project:

 - Create a Gitorious project repository for it http://git.sugarlabs.org/ and
 start hacking on your code

 - Request a trac component for you activity at http://dev.sugarlabs.org/

 - Open a trac ticket to request addition to Pootle (if your
 strings/release is reasonably mature/ready)

 - Create a page at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/actvity-name

 If it's a new release:

 - Update your activities wiki page at
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/actvity-name

 - Upload the .xo bundle, screenshots, notes to
 http://activities.sugarlabs.org/

 - Upload .bz2 source to shell.sugarlabs.org /upload/sugar/sources/honey

 - Edit wiki table
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Source_Code and make sure
 it's pointing to your latest .bz2

 - Edit wiki table http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go

Re: [Sugar-devel] Simplifying sugar-jhbuild

2009-05-22 Thread David Van Assche
I can only speak of opensuse and mandriva but we compile xulrunner ourselves
on those 2 plaftorms...

David (nubae)

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org
 wrote:

  As with any other sugar module, people want to run the latest code
  because it will contain bugfixes, etc. I see hulahop in the same way.

 As with any other module of anything, some people want to run Stable,
 some want Testing, some want Unstable, the very latest code. (I am
 using Debian terminology, but the concepts apply anywhere.) I am
 willing to use Testing, but not Unstable. I want an option to build
 something that is known to compile, with a mechanism in place to
 determine when we move forward to another level, and to enforce
 periodic bug-triage and bug-fixing when we need to make that move. We
 owe this to our development community.
 --
 Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
 And Children are my nation.
 The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
 http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
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[Sugar-devel] feedback from the Distro (autopackaging team) at Sugar Camp and recent meeting with key members taking on that task

2009-05-19 Thread David Van Assche
We had an IRC meeting yesterday (1 day after sugar camp!) to decide
how to move forward with the decisions taken at Sugar Camp in the area
of making packaging easier, performance better, testing easier, and
volunteer support and QA attraction a more realistic process and
approach. You can see the wiki entry discussed (ie. what was said at
Sugar Camp) here:

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:Community/Distributions/OpenSUSE

Though it mentions openSUSE it is really distro agnostic, its just
that key members of the openSUSE team were at the IRC meeting to
discuss the synching of jhconvert with oBS (openSUSE build service) so
that we can totally automate the process from getting revisions of
glucose, fructose, and some honey directly to all distros and
platforms. That novelly (no pun intended) includes the ARM
architecture for Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, and openSUSE. You can check
the irc logs of what was discussed here if you have any interest:

http://en.opensuse.org/Sugar/Meetings

Other performance and testing automation includes better hardware for
buildbot and the revival of the sugarbot project (an auto testing bot
to some degree) though it was agreed at Sugar Camp that much more
manual performance and security testing must be done, since its
unrealistic to rely on automated tests only. Still, both Buildbot and
Sugarbot are intesesting concepts and should help the process of the
developers, triagers, and even QA people significantly.

What we're doing goes a little bit against the policies of many
distros, but remember we almost consider Sugar its own OS ;-) and
distribution maintainers of Sugar are free to take the dsitributed
source and build it all again if they really like. We are just making
sure that Sugar IS available everywhere for everyone, and that it is
not the distros deciding whether Sugar should be allowed in one
version or another. We just want the best Sugar out there available to
all. So distro maintainers of Sugar can either keep up with Sugar, or
probably have their users ousing Sugar repos elsewhere

I hope this doesn't start any rifts or flame wars, that was not my
intention. As stated above, its just to get the best Sugar out there
as quickly as possible to everyone in all formats

kind Regards,
David (Nubae) Van Assche
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] personal marketing (bottum up approach)

2009-05-19 Thread David Van Assche
I think that there is a kind of formal technical/distribution position
forming here. Ie... someone that would be responsible for supporting
distribution methods of sugar (this should not be confused with QA,
bugsquad or anything else) It just needs to be a person that can say
all the available methods of distribution, and perhaps working on
communication between distros and Sugar team... what do u guys think?
Marten or I are both capable of doing this job just fine, but it kind
of overlaps with the infrastructure team... we'd need to be sure like
Marten says we have access to a server to set up rsync, torrent
distribution and even our own build Service (openSUSE build service is
totally gpl ;-)   ) What should this position be called, I have no
idea, I came up with lateral distro architect, but I have no idea if
that is specific enough or even too generic.

What do u think? perhaps forming a team that me and marten can be
integrated with seams obvious for the time being. Both of us also want
to work towards centralised distribution methods that are push and not
just pull, whatever they might be. I'm forwarding this to sugar-devel
as well as this has to do with them too, and an olpc rep so that we
can make sure they know what we are doing with sugar distribution.

kind Regards,
David (Nubae) Van Assche

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Marten Vijn i...@martenvijn.nl wrote:
 Thanks David,

 I will go for bandwith then asking for rsync as requirement.
 A torrend would optional.

 Some things I would like to assure mirrors have to:
 - have directory layout
 - same names

 Features I would also like to have
 - having a Last_version symlink to the last version.
  (keep links valid over time)
 - md5sums
 - list of mirrors on the website
 - or better mirror autoselection


 Besides from getting bandwidth is there a way I can help to achieve
 this? (I guess ssh access would be needed)

 Kind regards,
 Marten


 On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 12:10 +0200, David Van Assche wrote:
 One thing solution we use at openSUSE to get increcremental images,
 ie... you have an older version of SOAS or sugar or whatever image,
 but you want a newer one, well solution is to use rsync, but this
 would need to be enabled by the host (ie wherever all this is being
 hosted downloaded from [bernie, caroline?]):

 First check the latest image at:

 (This definetly works with openSUSE where sugar is completely
 integrated, even with an icon on the desktop that takes you straight
 into sugar from the desktop. The address for either SugarSuse or
 openSUSE-edu is here:
 http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Education/images/iso/ )

 The Soas images (snapshots, ie latests sugar) are here as far as I can
 tell: http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/2/

 Copy old image with exactly same name as new image available:

 cp oldimage.iso exact-name-new-image-is.iso

 Run rsync again to patch it:

 rsync -avP 
 rsync://mirror.leaseweb.com/opensuse/repositories/Education/images/iso/exact-name-new-image-is.iso
 .

 Dot at the end with space before it is part of the command.

 This will download only the bytes that have changed, which in some
 cases is just few MBs, saving few GBs of download.

 Obviously p2p is another good solution to get initial images going if
 a couple of people choose to upload to linuxtracker.org or
 something...

 kind Regards,
 David (Nubae) Van Assche

 On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Marten Vijn i...@martenvijn.nl wrote:
  Dear All,
 
  In the last 24 hours I talked to 12 persons about Sugar.
 
  - 6 persons have downloaded sugar and said to give feedback on Sugar
 
  - I have send a request for testing to i-netw...@dgroups.org.
  This is one the main mailinglistings in Africa.
 
  My findings so far:
  1. Asking people to help works. I ask can you help me. Can you download
  an iso, burn it to cd, boot it, and give you opinion an email?
  This is very effective in shifting from talking about to doing.
 
  2. The download seems to be slow.
 
  Possible sollution, shall I ask for bandwith to mirror the iso image?
  Can someone make familiar with an optimal solution
  (syncing/redirecting).
 
  kind regards,
  Marten
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  --
  http://martenvijn.nl                 Marten Vijn
  http://martenvijn.nl/trac/wiki/soas  Sugar on a Stick
  http://bsd.wifisoft.org/nek/         The Network Event Kit
  http://har2009.org                   13th-16th August
  http://opencommunitycamp.org         26th Jul - 2nd August
 
  ___
  IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
  i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
  http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
 
 ___
 IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
 i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
 --
 http://martenvijn.nl                 Marten Vijn
 http://martenvijn.nl/trac/wiki/soas  Sugar on a Stick
 http://bsd.wifisoft.org/nek

Re: [Sugar-devel] Sharing to Groups

2009-05-19 Thread David Van Assche
Talking about moodle, we really should decide what to enable on the
sugarlabs Moodle instance. Right now its everything, and like you
stated, most people get scared away, so I can see our Moodle instance
being used as a fancy forum, and not much more 8) I have admin access
there so in your opinion, what should I leave enabled so we can cut
the fat as it were...

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 2:19 AM, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira
 rodrigopad...@projetofedora.org wrote:
 Martin Langhoff, are you around ?

 Sure. I recommend searching the list archive for
 de...@lists.laptop.org and server-de...@l.l.o for an excellent
 discussion on 'narratives' a while ago, and for 'group management
 moodle'. Try a few other related terms and I'm sure you'll find a ton
 of background.

 Generally a good idea to get familiar w moodle as I'm doing a lot of
 work to integrate the user experience between XO and Moodle.

 I just realised Moodle also has a 'webquest' module - it's in contrib
 (not part of the official version but easily installable). See
 http://moodle.org/mod/forum/view.php?id=765 (you can 'login as guest'
 to avoid registration).

 cheers,


 m
 --
  martin.langh...@gmail.com
  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
  - ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sharing to Groups

2009-05-19 Thread David Van Assche
ah great, would be nice to be able to take care of everything, but
think we have enough work on our hands, if we could get some other
people on board that are experienced moodle admins, that would be
great. thanks Martin... pasteing an invitation for help now to
forum...

kind regards,
David (Nubae) Van Assche

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 1:53 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 Talking about moodle, we really should decide what to enable on the

 Not only stop scaring people, but provide content about Sugar + sample
 content for deployments, so there's a reason to use it. (How to
 complement the wiki and avoid overlaps is an area to think about.)

 My suggestion: post something in the comparisons  advocacy forum,
 asking for help from experienced moodle hands ;-) If you post there,
 I'll show that post in my presentation next wednesday at the Amsterdam
 moot...

 cheers,


 m
 --
  martin.langh...@gmail.com
  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
  - ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [Marketing] personal marketing (bottum up approach)

2009-05-19 Thread David Van Assche
me too, shall we take a practical approach and suggest some locations?

David (nubae) Van Assche

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Marten Vijn i...@martenvijn.nl wrote:
 On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 16:46 +0200, Bernie Innocenti wrote:
 On 05/19/09 13:51, Walter Bender wrote:
  Maybe we can find a time in the next few days to all meet on IRC to
  discuss this? CC'ng Bernie as he is most familiar with the SL
  infrastructure.

 Unfortunately, both the main download site and the mirror are located in
 Boston, so they're both going to be slow for people on the other side of
 the world.

 oke, I 'll am going to look European mirrors

 Marten


 --
 http://martenvijn.nl                 Marten Vijn
 http://martenvijn.nl/trac/wiki/soas  Sugar on a Stick
 http://bsd.wifisoft.org/nek/         The Network Event Kit
 http://har2009.org                   13th-16th August
 http://opencommunitycamp.org         26th Jul - 2nd August

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sharing to Groups

2009-05-19 Thread David Van Assche
well the post has been made here:
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=123793

hopefully we can get some feedback and its some help to Martin when
he's at the moots

kind regards,
David (nubae) Van Assche

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Sameer Verma sve...@sfsu.edu wrote:
 On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 6:30 AM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 ah great, would be nice to be able to take care of everything, but
 think we have enough work on our hands, if we could get some other
 people on board that are experienced moodle admins, that would be
 great. thanks Martin... pasteing an invitation for help now to
 forum...

 kind regards,
 David (Nubae) Van Assche


 Putting up some starter courses on Moodle would be great. I was
 going to test out our XS installs with some of my own courses from
 SFSU (we use moodle, but my course have no material relevance to
 Sugar/OLPC) but I'd rather use something more relevant. If we can set
 up courses on a central site, that would be great. That way, I can
 backup on the site and restore on the XS and go from there.

 Sameer
 --
 Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
 Associate Professor of Information Systems
 San Francisco State University
 San Francisco CA 94132 USA
 http://verma.sfsu.edu/
 http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
 On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Martin Langhoff
 martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 1:53 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 Talking about moodle, we really should decide what to enable on the

 Not only stop scaring people, but provide content about Sugar + sample
 content for deployments, so there's a reason to use it. (How to
 complement the wiki and avoid overlaps is an area to think about.)

 My suggestion: post something in the comparisons  advocacy forum,
 asking for help from experienced moodle hands ;-) If you post there,
 I'll show that post in my presentation next wednesday at the Amsterdam
 moot...

 cheers,


 m
 --
  martin.langh...@gmail.com
  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
  - ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar on LTSP

2009-04-26 Thread David Van Assche
Due to the sad state of ubuntu sugar, I decided, along with cyberorg
to package sugar and quite big set of honey sugar activities (about 50
of them) on openSUSE. The main goal here was to make it work nicely
with LTSP. So far that is working quite well, and there is no reason
ejabberd won't work with that. It worked just fine with ubuntu
intrepid +ejabberd. There are still a couple of hurdles to overcome,
such as some activities now working, but we should have a fully
functional environment within the coming weeks. I'll keep the list
informed.

kind Regards,
David

On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 2:34 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote:
 Sugar is compatible with LTSP systems. The folks at Resera have done
 good work in this space. However, the Ubuntu packaging of Sugar 0.84
 is a bit behind the great work being done by the Debian community.

 -walter

 On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Sameer Verma sve...@sfsu.edu wrote:
 Hello,

 I had a conversation with our tech folks on campus yesterday, and
 Sugar via LTSP (http://www.ltsp.org/) came up. The original discussion
 was about LTSP and thin and fat clients, but this group is in the
 College of Education, so the conversation drifted towards Sugar. We've
  talked about this before, but I'll poke the embers again. Is Sugar
 usable via LTSP? Espcially the collaborative part via ejabberd?

 We plan on having a Jaunty-based showcase running in three weeks or
 so. If Sugar is usable in that environment, we'll definitely push for
 it in this lab. The lab is used by faculty and students from early
 childhood ed. and other departments inb CoE. They'd love to bring in
 teachers and children from local schools to showcase it.

 I'm cc'ing David Van Assche in case he's not on this list (highly
 doubtful, though). I am currently using his fatclient script
 (http://www.nubae.com/ltsp-linux-terminal-server-project-netbooted-fat-client-for-ubuntu-hardy-and-intrepid)
 on Intrepid+GNOME.

 cheers,
 Sameer
 --
 Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
 Associate Professor of Information Systems
 San Francisco State University
 San Francisco CA 94132 USA
 http://verma.sfsu.edu/
 http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] webified and google gears

2009-04-14 Thread David Van Assche
I cant seem to find my spec file anymore, but I based it on this:
http://vpv.fedorapeople.org/packages/mozvoikko/mozvoikko.spec

To briefly explain, the .xpi is basically just a zip file, so it needs
to be placed in the /usr/lib/mozilla/extensions/{somepath}/{somepath}
and unpacked there.

Last time I built gears from source there were some hickups with wrong
libraries and flags, but It wasn't too difficult. If any more help is
needed, let me know.

David

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:24 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com wrote:
 ok, here's what I've found so far... I'll keep looking for the actual
 spec file. I dont even know if this works, its been a while since I
 looked into this...

 On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 9:53 PM, Lucian Branescu
 lucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote:
 I don't have experience with rpm, but since much of the work is
 already done, I guess packaging it wouldn't be a problem. Especially
 since it would only be necessary after the SSB actually works,
 although earlier can't hurt.

 2009/4/14 Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org:
 On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 21:42, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 I can send over what I have... I had the rpm source file somewhere...
 I can look for it if there is interest...

 Yes please, the .spec file will be a good step forward.

 Thanks,

 Tomeu

 David

 On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Lucian Branescu
 lucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote:
 2009/4/14 Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org:
 On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 20:19, Lucian Branescu
 lucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote:
 Gears is just a XUL extension, packaging shouldn't be a problem.

 You mean you are volunteering to package it? ;)

 David Van Assche already worked on it and got it pretty much working,
 but it never was submitted to fedora. Would you like to finish this
 work?

 Packaging work might not seem too challenging, but consumes quite a
 bit of time and is crucially important for projects like Sugar.


 I'll have to look into that, then.

 Also,
 it does not require sync-ing state, web apps can store everything in
 Gears and work in offline mode. Gears provides some integration with
 the desktop (which can simply be ignored, it's mostly desktop
 shortcuts and the like), an SQLite database accesible from JS and a
 Worker (thread-like) object.

 Sounds good.

 Using existing web technologies and standards (de facto or not) is
 very valuable, especially for my case. I don't want to invent any new
 technologies or techniques, just to provide a simple Site Specific
 Browser. If I were to do so, existing web apps would have to be
 modified and new ones would be unusual from the POV of web developers.

 Agreed.

 For Journal integration, the entire Gears database could be store in
 the DataStore.

 That would work fine, only that for example a karmized web app that
 processes images might make more sense to write a png file, so other
 activities can open it. But I don't think it's a critical point.


 The Desktop module in Gears can access local files, with permission
 from the user. So a Gears web app that deals with files should be able
 to do this.

 Regards,

 Tomeu


 2009/4/14 Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org:
 Hi,

 I like your proposal because focuses on a problem interesting to the
 Sugar community and because proposes a solution that is reasonable
 enough to be implemented in the GSoC timeframe.

 But the mention of google gears concerns me a bit, since no
 distribution that I know is packaging it and because AFAIK it would be
 sync'ing state between local storage and a remote server when
 activities are supposed to be storing it's whole state to the journal.

 From my current POV, may be better to provide a (XPCOM?) component
 accessible from JS that provides DataStore integration. I think it
 could be fairly simple to do with hulahop.

 On the other hand, we should really find a way to have Google Gears
 installed alongside Sugar because many interesting sites require it,
 but it may be out of scope form your proposal.

 Regards,

 Tomeu



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[Sugar-devel] logging irc setup

2009-02-12 Thread David Van Assche
well, u can find it here: http://www.nubae.com/logs/sugar

There are various curious commands the bot can help with based on
google stuff the list is as follows:

[control command is @ and not !]
example: @google define:sugarlabs

#   !google [.google.country.code] [define:|spell:|movie:]  #
#  search terms 1+1 1 cm in ft patent ###
#  weather city|zip ??? airport #
#   !images [.google.country.code] search terms   #
#   !groups [.google.country.code] search terms   #
#   !news [.google.country.code] search terms #
#   !local [.google.country.code] what near where   #
#   !book [.google.country.code] search terms #
#   !video [.google.country.code] search terms#
#   !scholar [.google.country.code] search terms  #
#   !fight word(s) one vs word(s) two   #
#   !youtube [.google.country.code] search terms  #
#   !trans reg...@region text #
#   !gamespot search terms#
#   !gamefaqs system in region  #
#   !blog [.google.country.code] search terms #
#   !ebay [.ebay.country.code] search terms   #
#   !ebayfight word(s) one vs word(s) two   #
#   !wikipedia [.2-digit-country-code] search terms[#subtag]  #
#   !wikimedia [.www.wikisite.org[/wiki]] search terms[#subtag]
#   !locate ip or hostmask#
#   !review gamename [@ system] #
#   !torrent search terms #
#   !top system   #
#   !popular system   #
#   !dailymotion search terms #
#   !ign search terms #
#   !myspace search terms #
#   !trends [.google.country.code] -MM-DD #
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms

2009-02-11 Thread David Van Assche
hey there sean essentially there is no difference between SoaS and
cd the problem comes from the distro specific intricacies, which
can be many more than devs care to admit... I agree.. this is not a
usable product unless it alll works... saying oh welll speak
doesnt work because of x or y, is no excuse. bios has nothing to do
with this, this is purely distro related... for example... on fedora
we have 80% workage, on ubuntu 40 maybe 50% workage... but for those
of us in the field selling this tech, this is not accpetable... I say
it again I know its an open source project but it doesnt help
funding if we cant even get the damn thing to run a cd, btw, is
worse than a stick at this point. at least for ubuntu goood
luck and lets work this shit out so we finally have a solution that
works in schoosl

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:50 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:
 It is absolutely vital that SoaS boot/install work in a reliable way.
 Any nongeek user who can't use it will not bother reporting precise
 bug information, and moreover will lose motivation to try it again. In
 the case of branded USB sticks boot/install failures will make Sugar
 Labs appear as a cruddy product. Branded sticks will need to work
 every time.

 OK that said I ask you to bear with me since I don't know enough about
 the (surely formidable) technical hurdles in succeeding boot/install.
 Can anyone brief me on the importance/difficulty of the following
 factors? Perhaps there is a page which enumerates these factors?

 * User difficulty configuring BIOS boot from USB
 * Underlying distribution
 * Recognizing hardware
 * Dependencies
 * Network (LAN, Internet) connectivity: configuration, absence thereof
 * USB key locked in read-only mode
 * Missing or buggy activities


 Please forgive my ignorance but does SoaS generate a log at
 boot/install? Are there error codes specific to Sugar? I would imagine
 that's distribution-dependent... The user feedback rate could be
 improved if we communicate a super-simple procedure on boot/install
 failure, e.g. an e-mail address to send a boot/install log file to. As
 well (perhaps this happens already?), on successful boot/install and
 with Internet connnectivity, ideally the stick should phone home with
 the boot log which would indicate successful SoaS/hardware
 combinations and provide some statistics on how many sticks make it to
 screens. Of course, per privacy concerns there should be no
 user-identifiable information, or rather any such info should be
 immediately anonymized. Is there a way to trap errors in each
 activity, in case of error can the boot/install log be appended to,
 can a user feedback agent return the updated log to us if the Net is
 available?

 One more (maybe silly) question, is there a fundamental difference
 between Sugar on a CD and Sugar on a Stick?

 If this has been dealt with, any pointers to resources would be appreciated.

 thank you

 Sean


 On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 8:34 AM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 well this entire conversation was really brought about because I
 couldnt practice speech with my 2 nephews... Im sorry if I crossed the
 line a bit, but I think what I said needed to be said... SoaS is
 indeed the best plqtform right now  and the kids not only loved it
 (one 9 the other 3) they needed no explanation for the interface... to
 them it was as natural as eating a piece of bread.

 On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 6:04 AM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:14 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 Im gonna try and make this easy:

 SoaS - the latest fedora core based
 I tried to impress my 9 year old gescwister... (related one)
 Speak - it will not even launch why is it then on a disitributed
 stick?

 Aleksey Lim recently took over this orphaned package.  Can you get in touch
 with him (alsroot on IRC) and help work it out?  I have yet to even try 
 SoaS
 but information on what activities do and don't work should be posted to
 http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus so we can triage them.
 We are watching that page.  Thus far most of our work has been migrating
 activities over to SL.org but hopefully we can start actually getting them
 to work on SoaS soon.

 On a sidenote: some of the most exciting work for me last summer was
 Hemant's text-to-speech work, which would have real impact if its
 integration into Sugar were completed.  How close is that to being
 possible?

 http://dev.laptop.org/~wadeb/TypingTurtle-9.xo is the latest release but I
 can't guarantee it works on anything but XO.

 [Getting pretty hot...]

 SJ

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[Sugar-devel] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms

2009-02-10 Thread David Van Assche
ok? I guess this will be contreversial but it must be said and acted
upon (much more importantly)

Im gonna try and make this easy:

SoaS - the latest fedora core based
I tried to impress my 9 year old gescwister... (related one)
Speak - it will not even launch why is it then on a disitributed stick?

ubuntu -
no read
no write
no jiggzawpuzzle
etoys
scratch
epathi
measure
anything tam tam based
until very recently even browse
pdf reader of any kind
measure
distance
slider
video chat
abc flower (thing doesnt even exist)

ok, that is about 50% of the failed testtube babies...


what is the solution:

we test the damn tings before release we do what greg
dekoenigsberg quite elegantly suggested. a 3 tier solution:

1. make an educator mailinglist we get every educator we know on
the list. We start off the discussion with what is really needed...
the simple stuff... the stuff u guru coders can whip up in days:
Examples:

1. typing tutor... all it should do is allow kids to follow whatever
the teacher is directing. speed of typing is recorded? accuracy; graph
based report; printable to parents... stars given to best pupils...

guys these are real world scenarios... not invented by devs.. asked
for by teachers qnd not surprisingly thinking why it does not yet
exist.

2 same for maths... times tables/division/addition/substraction
groupings of kids, reports, printibale to both parents ant teachers...


2. (gdk) guys this is what teachers want... I reallly hate to say
this; but the stuff right now on sugar apart from speak, which when
working every teacher loves, is an absolute waste of educators time...
yes the activities can be properly used... but basics first! mailing
list to get the, involved; we mention the activities that we (welll
actually they) have come up with, we discuss very briefly;

3: (gdk)then make a moodle/wiki page where educators and devs get
together to create the tools that we actually need (the ones that will
really chqnge the world)

I hope no one takes this is as a critcism of the effort put into
creating activities till now; but people... lets frocus... lets sugar
mean something for teachers

David (nubae) Van Assche
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms

2009-02-10 Thread David Van Assche
u do realise that it was me that set up the moodle infrastructure
right? except I a was alone...


nubae

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote:
 We are trying to gather activity status information at
 http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus - there is a 'soas' tag
 which indicates the activity works on SoaS, any errors should be reported in
 the Remarks column.

 But despite a few public requests we haven't managed to get any SoaS test
 results posted there.

 -Wade

 On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Caroline Meeks solutiongr...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Do we have a place for testers to record the what works with which
 release?

 If not perhaps someone could set it up on the moodle system
 schools.sugarlab.org using the moodle database module:
 http://docs.moodle.org/en/Database_module

 On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:14 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 ok? I guess this will be contreversial but it must be said and acted
 upon (much more importantly)

 Im gonna try and make this easy:

 SoaS - the latest fedora core based
 I tried to impress my 9 year old gescwister... (related one)
 Speak - it will not even launch why is it then on a disitributed
 stick?

 ubuntu -
 no read
 no write
 no jiggzawpuzzle
 etoys
 scratch
 epathi
 measure
 anything tam tam based
 until very recently even browse
 pdf reader of any kind
 measure
 distance
 slider
 video chat
 abc flower (thing doesnt even exist)

 ok, that is about 50% of the failed testtube babies...


 what is the solution:

 we test the damn tings before release we do what greg
 dekoenigsberg quite elegantly suggested. a 3 tier solution:

 1. make an educator mailinglist we get every educator we know on
 the list. We start off the discussion with what is really needed...
 the simple stuff... the stuff u guru coders can whip up in days:
 Examples:

 1. typing tutor... all it should do is allow kids to follow whatever
 the teacher is directing. speed of typing is recorded? accuracy; graph
 based report; printable to parents... stars given to best pupils...

 guys these are real world scenarios... not invented by devs.. asked
 for by teachers qnd not surprisingly thinking why it does not yet
 exist.

 2 same for maths... times tables/division/addition/substraction
 groupings of kids, reports, printibale to both parents ant teachers...


 2. (gdk) guys this is what teachers want... I reallly hate to say
 this; but the stuff right now on sugar apart from speak, which when
 working every teacher loves, is an absolute waste of educators time...
 yes the activities can be properly used... but basics first! mailing
 list to get the, involved; we mention the activities that we (welll
 actually they) have come up with, we discuss very briefly;

 3: (gdk)then make a moodle/wiki page where educators and devs get
 together to create the tools that we actually need (the ones that will
 really chqnge the world)

 I hope no one takes this is as a critcism of the effort put into
 creating activities till now; but people... lets frocus... lets sugar
 mean something for teachers

 David (nubae) Van Assche
 ___
 IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
 i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep



 --
 Caroline Meeks
 Solution Grove
 carol...@solutiongrove.com

 617-500-3488 - Office
 505-213-3268 - Fax

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] activites known not to either work at all or not on certin platforms

2009-02-10 Thread David Van Assche
God I a m happy u stated the needed. We hqd a presentation in Grqz,
Austria, where basically we walked out like idiots. We got loqds of
feedback, which is what my message as about... but fact remains SoaS,
be if fedora (a slight bit better) or ubuntu.. we as educators,
marketers can only shake our heads...

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 4:53 AM, Caroline Meeks
carol...@solutiongrove.com wrote:


 On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Carol Farlow Lerche c...@msbit.com
 wrote:

 Caroline, I really don't think the problem is lack of testing in the case
 of Ubuntu.  It is that so little works that activity testing is basically a
 smoke test (turn it on and see if it even comes up).  And because the only
 status report is a bunch of individual bug reports, there is a high barrier
 to entry.   My strategy has been to try every week or so to update the
 packages on my Ubuntu laptop and try launching everything.  Most packaged
 activities don't launch.

 As for SOAS, my experience working in a classroom tells me there is no
 point in bothering with it until the boot time is substantially reduced,
 except for the special case of a computer lab.  Since my particular school
 environments and Sugar/OLPC targets don't include that mode, I personally
 have not been trying it out.

 FWIW, my deployment timeline for SoaS at the Gardner School is informal
 usage this summer and classroom usage in the Fall.  Anyone using it on a
 more aggressive timeline should be aware that they are ahead of me and
 breaking new ground and plan accordingly.





 On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:31 PM, Caroline Meeks
 carol...@solutiongrove.com wrote:

 hmm, ok I find that page pretty confusing and hard to use but then I'm
 not a wiki is all type person.  If its working for you and your the activity
 team then we should try to use it.

 Maybe you could cross link from the SoaS page.
 http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick

 I think our underlying problem is that there is not very much testing
 being done.

 On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote:

 We are trying to gather activity status information at
 http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus - there is a 'soas' tag
 which indicates the activity works on SoaS, any errors should be reported 
 in
 the Remarks column.

 But despite a few public requests we haven't managed to get any SoaS
 test results posted there.

 -Wade

 On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Caroline Meeks
 solutiongr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Do we have a place for testers to record the what works with which
 release?

 If not perhaps someone could set it up on the moodle system
 schools.sugarlab.org using the moodle database module:
 http://docs.moodle.org/en/Database_module

 On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:14 PM, David Van Assche
 dvanass...@gmail.com wrote:

 ok? I guess this will be contreversial but it must be said and acted
 upon (much more importantly)

 Im gonna try and make this easy:

 SoaS - the latest fedora core based
 I tried to impress my 9 year old gescwister... (related one)
 Speak - it will not even launch why is it then on a disitributed
 stick?

 ubuntu -
 no read
 no write
 no jiggzawpuzzle
 etoys
 scratch
 epathi
 measure
 anything tam tam based
 until very recently even browse
 pdf reader of any kind
 measure
 distance
 slider
 video chat
 abc flower (thing doesnt even exist)

 ok, that is about 50% of the failed testtube babies...


 what is the solution:

 we test the damn tings before release we do what greg
 dekoenigsberg quite elegantly suggested. a 3 tier solution:

 1. make an educator mailinglist we get every educator we know on
 the list. We start off the discussion with what is really needed...
 the simple stuff... the stuff u guru coders can whip up in days:
 Examples:

 1. typing tutor... all it should do is allow kids to follow whatever
 the teacher is directing. speed of typing is recorded? accuracy; graph
 based report; printable to parents... stars given to best pupils...

 guys these are real world scenarios... not invented by devs.. asked
 for by teachers qnd not surprisingly thinking why it does not yet
 exist.

 2 same for maths... times tables/division/addition/substraction
 groupings of kids, reports, printibale to both parents ant teachers...


 2. (gdk) guys this is what teachers want... I reallly hate to say
 this; but the stuff right now on sugar apart from speak, which when
 working every teacher loves, is an absolute waste of educators time...
 yes the activities can be properly used... but basics first! mailing
 list to get the, involved; we mention the activities that we (welll
 actually they) have come up with, we discuss very briefly;

 3: (gdk)then make a moodle/wiki page where educators and devs get
 together to create the tools that we actually need (the ones that will
 really chqnge the world)

 I hope no one takes this is as a critcism of the effort put into
 creating activities till now; but people... lets frocus... lets sugar

Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM

2009-01-31 Thread David Van Assche
Can't we split it into 2 parts, the regular startup and desktop bits
(as created in teh oses) and then the downloadable bit which hooks in
and does the sugar stuff Then people could use their distro to
create the usb pen drive, and download the (200mb or 300mb) bit for
sugar and its activities...

I'd also suggest putting wubi on it so it can be run on windows... (cringe)

Anyweay, so this would become the sugar addon image/cd/drive

David Van Assche

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
 On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:49, Marco Pesenti Gritti
 marc...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
 On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de 
 wrote:
 Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this
 post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332

 It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as
 possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps
 of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking
 @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to
 infos on how to best trim down are welcome.

 Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)?

 If we want wide testing and people need to download 800MB each time,
 many people (me included) will have a hard time getting those bits.

 But setting up a rsync server may help with that.

 Regards,

 Tomeu

 Caroline requested to have GNOME on the images so that people can
 switch to it if they want. I think Sebastian is doing some work to
 reduce size for the XO. If size is not a blocker we could just
 leverage his work...

 Marco
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM

2009-01-31 Thread David Van Assche
You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar
or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever
other apps...

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote:
 Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
 On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de 
 wrote:
 Ok, did not think about yum update.

 Did not know GNOME was a requirement, wonder if this is a benefit to have
 though. I mean it is Sugar on a stick in the end. If it helps to make mac
 users get to know gnome or sugar i guess that is ok.

 Caroline wants to get Soas to high school students so that they can
 play with and help us out with testing etc. At the same time they
 would like to be able to run normal linux applications like the gimp.
 That was more or less the rationale, but I'm ccing Caroline which can
 explain better. (Another way to cover that use case could be to have
 them yum install GNOME or build customized images with it).

 Marco


 As I said - might be a good way to get them try out other apps besides
 Sugar - see that as a benefit. We could build customized images as well
 - that is true.

 Thanks,
Simon
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Re: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM

2009-01-31 Thread David Van Assche
Yeah we are doing the same with edubuntu... which should include sugar
in Jaunty+1, when it is a little more mature (activity wise.) Kde-edu
has made massive advances in their edu tools and the kde team seems
very committed to getting the whole distro known as the 'edu' distro.
Part of the reason for this is that the Brazillian government made a
commitment to put 60 million users infront of kde 4... (not LTSP
sadly) but thats a pretty big market... so now they've decided to
really focus on edu... think of the possibilitiy of making learning
objects that are plasmoids... the sky is the limit... Anyway, edubuntu
is a mix of gnome and kde edu apps... and soon sugar edu stuff too

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Sebastian Dziallas sebast...@when.com wrote:
 Simon Schampijer schrieb:

 David Van Assche wrote:

 What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager
 (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated
 as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as
 does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it
 might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for
 all educational groups...

 David

 If that is the desire from whoever is using those Sticks - off he goes.
 Caroline wants to offer GNOME as well - great. Those images are easily
 customizable - so as marco said there could be different versions.

 I just created a very first draft of a slimmed-down version including Gnome
 and Sugar on the same spin. Though, I didn't get to testing it yet. You can
 just have a look at the GIT repo here: [1]

 The soas-*.ks files are the ones which should also work on other hardware
 than the XO.

 --Sebastian

 [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/fedora-xo;a=tree

 Subnote: There is a size limit as well to some sticks - for example 1 GB
 sticks are quite common - not sure if you can fit all the desktops on that
 and offer space for the user he can write to as well.

 Cheers,
Simon

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Summary Minutes from olpc-friends' Tuesday Deployment Meeting

2009-01-31 Thread David Van Assche
Enjoy:

 hpachas _sj_, los temas de implementación pasan por 3 temas importantes

the implementation themes are split into 3 important ones:

 hpachas _sj_, logistico, técnico y pedagógico

logistics, technical and pedagogical

 hpachas pienso que se deben agendar reuniones en base a los tres grandes
  temas
_sj_ hpachas, los tres!

I think we should aggregate the meetings according to the big 3 themes

_sj_ oh, right, logistics
_sj_ hpachas, absolutamente.  logistics is its own Field
_sj_ as anyone who has every sat with hernan or fiorella can tell
  you...
 hpachas _sj_, en la parte logistica, son muchos pasos que los demás
  paises deben entender como realizarlo

yes in the logistics part there are many steps that the other
countries could learn how to realize

 hpachas _sj_, ahora a eso tenemos que añadir: distribución,
  reparación, sustitución

to that we now need to add distribution, repairs, and substitution

_sj_ hpachas, que es sustitucion?
_sj_ support?
 hpachas _sj_, sustitución = reemplazo de un equipo por otro
_sj_ ah! interestante!

substitution means replacing one machine for another

 hpachas _sj_, son muchas cosas por las cuales nosotros ya hemos pasado y
  estamos pasando

these are many aspects which we have already experienced and are experiencing.

 hpachas _sj_, ahora en el tema técnico, es otro mundo paralelo

in the technical theme, it is a parallel world

 hpachas _sj_, localización, activación, etc, etc

localisation, activation, etc

_sj_ hpachas,  si, muchas muchas cosas importantes

yes many important things

 hpachas _sj_, tenemos q recordar que la parte técnica va en los
  siguientes aspectos: XO, XS, AP, Swhti, Acceso a Internet

we have to remember that the technical parts are split into the
following items: XO, XS, AP, Swhti, Internet Access

_sj_ hpachas, puedes ayudar con los agendas de estos reuniones?

can u help with the agenda of these meetings

_sj_ tienes el gran parte de experiencia con estos

u have the most experience with these items

_sj_ temas, problemas, soluciones

themes, problems, solutions

_sj_ y la compartmentacion entre temas diferentes y paraleles

and the compartimentisation between different parallel themes

 hpachas _sj_, pienso que debemos hacer una evaluación de como se
  encuentran en estos mometnos todos los paises OLPC

I think we should evaluate how the OLPC countries find themselves right now.

_sj_ Swhti?
 hpachas _sj_, quizas tener un site que diga el grado de avance de cada
  pais, ayudaría

maybe have a site that shows the percentage of advancement of each
country would help

_sj_ hpachas, estos discusiones son para los escuelas y paises
  pequenos

these discussions are for schools and smaller countries only

_sj_ solamente
_sj_ pero hay paraleles

but there are parallels

_sj_ ah
_sj_ el mapo con el grado de avance es muy viejo

the map with the percentage advance is very old

_sj_ mapa*
_sj_ hmm
 hpachas ese mapa debe ser interactivo, editable a través de internte

that map should be interactive and editable via the net.

_sj_ hpachas, voy a ver.  si...
_sj_ no tenemos cada uno
_sj_ pere sera valable
 hpachas _sj_, si colocamos el programa OLPC en linea de tiempo, diria q
  empieza por el tema logistico, técnico/pedagógico

If we put the OLPC program in a linear timeline, we could say it
starts with the logistics, and then tecnical and pedagogical.

_sj_ si.  wikitimeline es interesante para eso...

wikitimeline could be used for that.

_sj_ http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:EasyTimeline


On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Michael Stone mich...@laptop.org wrote:
 Folks,

 We had an awesome deployment meeting this Tuesday at 2000 UTC on
 #olpc-deployment on irc.freenode.net. Almost 30 people came, with knowledge of
 10 different deployments!

 Summary and minutes are now available at

   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127#Summary
   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127

 Enjoy, and please join us next Tuesday at 2000 UTC or Wednesday at 0500 UTC.
 Also, please feel free to add items to the next meetings' agenda at the bottom
 of

   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings

 so that interested folks can prepare questions and remarks.

 Voluntarily yours,

 Michael

 P.S. - Would some kind English+Spanish-speaking soul be willing to provide a
 nice translation of Hernan's remarks:

   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127#hpachas.27_Remarks

 for interested illiterates like me?
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha

2009-01-14 Thread David Van Assche
This sounds like a great foundation for a sugar framework... something
that not only coders can get a feel for...

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:
 Hi Ben,

Groupthink: Collab should be easy.

 (from the patch):
 -self.totranslate = gtk.Entry(max=50)
 +self.cloud.totranslate = groupthink.gtk_tools.RecentEntry(max=50)

 .. wow, that *is* easy.  And it's synchronous, so the text box is
 updated with each character press.  You could also use this technique
 for Pippy's source code textbox, which would immediately turn it into a
 collaborative editor.  (I don't care about collisions very much as long
 as everyone gets the same state; they can be resolved socially.)

 Now that we're excited, maybe you should let on what the blocker bugs
 are.  :-)

 Could we sign you up for a quick XOCamp demo/talk?

 Thanks!

 - Chris.
 --
 Chris Ball   c...@laptop.org
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs

2009-01-05 Thread David Van Assche
This might be of interest:

Salasaga is a GTK/Gnome based IDE used to create eLearning for
applications. With it, you take screenshots of your applications,
add highlights, text and external images, then generate learning
objects. Present output is in swf (flash) format.

It would certainly be useful for making flash based learning objects
for Moodle. The site for the soft is here:
http://www.salasaga.org/

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 7:15 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote:
 On 05.01.2009, at 05:24, John Watlington wrote:

 On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote:

 Currently Sugar is incapable of running software which is not
 specifically designed for it.

 Sugar runs simpler SWF applications just fine, through the Browser.
 They don't have to be designed for Sugar.


 I think this goes besides the original point of Bryan. He is well aware that
 software needs to be specifically designed for Sugar, and wether this is
 good or bad is not the current debate. The point is what tools one can use
 to implement a proper Sugar activity. Bryan says the tools many content
 developers are familiar with are HTML, Javascript, and Flash.

 I agree completely - I proposed a swf-activity launcher script as the
 solution, in my initial response to Bryan.

 I think it would be relatively easy to come up with an activity template
 that just has a subdirectory for SWF content. Creating an SWF activity then
 would involve copying the template, editing the meta data, putting the SWF
 content into the directory, zipping it up and voila, a nice XO bundle. That
 process could easily be done by a script, even on Windows.

 I think the template should be built into and supported by the Sugar
 dev team, rather than something that has to be copied around.

 That way it's able to be updated and improved over time, and as better
 Flash solutions become available we can incorporate them easily.

 I agree with the rest of Bert's plan.  It should be a PyGTK activity
 with just an activity toolbar, which launches Gnash or Adobe Flash
 into its canvas.  It should also find the Flash persistence database
 and copy it to/from the Journal.

 A nice additional feature would be to make use of Jordan's screen
 resolution dropper on the XO to allow Flash activities to run at
 600x450, which would likely quadruple performance.

 -Wade
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