Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Tony Anderson passed away

[Sean DALY]

Sad news... Tony so often had great ideas and unending energy to contribute

Sean


On Sat, Feb 18, 2023 at 6:27 PM Walter Bender 
wrote:

> Sad news.
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Nancie Severs 
> Date: Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 3:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Tony Anderson passed away
> To: Kishwer Aziz 
> Cc: TK Kang / T.K. Kang , Sameer Verma <
> sv3...@gmail.com>, Christoph Derndorfer ,
> Walter Bender , Rabi Karmacharya <
> r...@olenepal.org>, Adam Holt 
>
>
> Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear that Tony passed away in December 2022. I too
> am glad to hear that he was cared for and that he did not suffer for too
> long.
>
> Tony had so much energy! He traveled fearlessly. He was very dedicated, he
> loved a good challenge & personally impacted digital learning for many
> hundreds of children around the world. He patiently shared his knowledge
> with us other volunteers and so many teachers too. Tony had a meaningful
> impact wherever he helped out. Kishwer, you were both so fortunate to
> connect and work together. Tony's presence and knowhow was indeed a huge
> gift to your Pakistan schools. I'm sure he pesonally treasured the
> opportunity to work in Pakistan too. The children in the Philippines no
> doubt were huge beneficiaries too. He was a true adventurer to the end!
>
> Warmest regards to each of you & Kishwer especially, my sincere
> condolences.
> Nancie:)
> *Nancie G. Severs*
>
> *Treasure Each Day*
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 12:48 PM Kishwer Aziz 
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Rudolf,
>>
>>
>>
>> This is the news that I have feared to get  several months now. I tried
>> contacting him via various means that I new but there was no response.
>> First of all thank you for reaching out to us. Over the years Tony had
>> become a family member, often in our house over long periods spending time
>> with our children and grandchildren. Your message, though heart breaking,
>> is very gratefully received.
>>
>>
>>
>> He visited Pakistan several times and was much loved and admired by the
>> children and staff at the school. An extremely generous and kind human
>> being, who gave without ever expecting anything in return. I am glad that
>> he was not alone in the end and had his devoted friend with him caring for
>> him. Our project is working very well. The last thing that Tony did on his
>> trip here in February 2020, just before Covid hit the world, was to make us
>> customized loadable material for each class for English, Sciences, Math,
>> Music, and countless other things we had asked him for. Our kids are still
>> using all that and the material he gave us is well preserved. He also built
>> us two NUC Servers on that trip, all at his own expense, which are still
>> working. The children he taught Python and scratch to are today working as
>> programmers or graphic designers. So he has certainly left a legacy behind
>> and left the world a better place for him having lived in it. He lived a
>> good life, what more can one ask for.
>>
>>
>>
>> I will always treasure each moment I spent with him. I can see from the
>> pictures you sent that he was still trying to smile as he always did. I too
>> have some truly memorable photos of him from over the years. I am sharing a
>> few with you from his last trip in February2020. We would have met once
>> again but for COVID. But that is life.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have you shared this sad news with folks on the
>> unleashk...@googlegroups.com. I have copied Nancie Severs and Adam Holt
>> on this email as we worked with them closely.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay in tuch, stay sfae and let me know if I can ever do anything to help
>> you in any of your projects.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Warm regards*
>>
>> *Kishwer Aziz*
>>
>> Mobile/ WhatsApp: +44 7725816209
>>
>> Skype: kishweraziz
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CareforKids 
>> *Sent:* 17 February 2023 13:21
>> *To:* 'Kishwer.Aziz' 
>> *Cc:* Aslam Aziz 
>> *Subject:* Tony Anderson passed away
>>
>>
>>
>> *Dear Kishwer,*
>>
>>
>>
>> *since both of us worked together with Tony Anderson in the childcare
>> projects with OLPC laptops and related works. Our organization is heavily
>> investing/donating in Rwandan schools and sponsorships. Now I need to
>> inform you that Tony passed away in December in Palawan/Philippines. He was
>> hosted by Romeo (Romy) Bacuel, who cared for him during his hospital stay
>> and home care. He suffered from a stroke and did not recover again. He died
>> a few weeks after his 85th birthday. Emmanuel Bandirimba from Rwanda
>> visited him and Tony enjoyed his company. I hope, your projects are
>> continuing and your help is effective. Let me know if you have anything to
>> exchange concerning Tony.*
>>
>>
>> *Beste regardsRudolf Simon*
>> 
>> *Care for Kids e.V.*
>> Tel. +49 711 8804-1101, Mobil +49 172 712 1333
>> rudolf.si...@care-for-kids.org - www.care-for-kids.org -
>> www.facebook.com/careforkidsev
>> 
>> *Court Stuttgart, Register VR 720072, Board: 

Re: [Sugar-devel] [Sur] Oversight Board Elections 2019-21 has begun!

[Sean DALY]

Unfortunately, the voting system failed in my case, apparently due to a bug
in the CIVS automatic browser language detection system. I have asked Vipul
and CIVS to find a solution so I may vote.

Sean

On Wednesday, January 15, 2020, Vipul Gupta 
wrote:

> Hello folks,
> The Oversight Board election 2019-21 is upon us. In your inboxes, you
> would have received a unique email from CIVS or c...@cs.cornell.edu with
> the options to poll for the candidates.
>
> The poll is open from 15th January 2020 to 31st January 2020. You can find
> more information on the candidates here https://wiki.sugarlabs.
> org/go/Oversight_Board/2019-2021-candidates.
>
> Please check your spam folders or promotions if you can't find it. Add the
> email address to your contact list and mark as not spam when you find it.
> As always, looking forward to hearing any questions you all would have. Do
> cast your vote!
>
> Best,
> Vipul Gupta
> Mixster  | Github
> 
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Hello guys please i want to ask if any one can help me on how to convert colors that are in hex to the color name :)

[Sean DALY]

One possible approach could be to model a hex-name lookup table such as on
this page [1], rounding to the nearest named color. Some ideas are here [2].

Sean

1. https://imagemagick.org/script/color.php
2.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/38923744/how-to-map-a-range-of-hex-values-to-a-color



On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 4:47 PM Walter Bender 
wrote:

> Not a very easy task. I have some code that could get you a Munsell
> representation of the color (the hue designation as well as its lightness
> and vividness, but you'd still need to determine that dark orange == brown,
> etc.
>
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 4:17 PM Joel Arrey  wrote:
>
>>
>> ___
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>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOB] Motion regarding xo-computer icon

[Sean DALY]

So your idea is: no trademarks at all? Do you think Sugar Labs should give
up its trademark?

Is your goal to undermine Sugar Labs and/or OLPC?

Sean


On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 12:02 PM, Sebastian Silva <sebast...@fuentelibre.org
> wrote:

> On 15/09/17 10:59, Sean DALY wrote:
> > The copyrights are licensed under the GPL, and OLPC's trademark has a
> > long history of use in Sugar with OLPC's cooperation - a formal
> > license may be superfluous (a determination which can only be made by
> > a lawyer). The artwork file itself is GPL'd. So this is just an
> > underhanded way to bypass the community (and the SLOBs) and impose a
> > change.
> You are not reading carefully. Perhaps Sugar Labs has permission. Do
> downstream distributors? Do downstream service providers? Do OLPC
> competitors?
>
> Sebastian
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOB] Motion regarding xo-computer icon

[Sean DALY]

>> About the icon-debug, the goal is for the main Sugar branch to be
"libre" of Trademarks> global and future users should be
>>able to modify and redistribute Sugar as a 100% libre software and that
is what we all want, don;t you?

This is just silly. It's not because Sugar artwork is trademarked or
copyrighted that it can't be distributed. The copyrights are licensed under
the GPL, and OLPC's trademark has a long history of use in Sugar with
OLPC's cooperation - a formal license may be superfluous (a determination
which can only be made by a lawyer). The artwork file itself is GPL'd. So
this is just an underhanded way to bypass the community (and the SLOBs) and
impose a change. Just awful.

Sean.


On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 11:35 AM, Laura Vargas <la...@somosazucar.org>
wrote:

>
>
> 2017-09-15 10:24 GMT-05:00 Ignacio Rodríguez <igna...@sugarlabs.org>:
>
>> +1 from me.
>> I know people tend to relate Sugar to OLPC, in fact I still do sometimes
>> (it's easier to explain someone that "Sugar" is the thing that runs in the
>> XO's).
>>
>> But the icon should stay as it was.
>> If you want to change the icon for your deployments just change it
>> (wasn't that what you guys were trying to say?)
>>
>
> Ignacio,
>
> First am glad you have decide to stay in the oversight board. Your
> resignation was not clear.
>
> I hope this means you are going dedicate time to the oversight tasks. :D
>
>
> About the icon-debug, the goal is for the main Sugar branch to be "libre"
> of Trademarks> global and future users should be able to modify and
> redistribute Sugar as a 100% libre software and that is what we all want,
> don;t you?
>
>
>
>
>> Thx
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 12:00 PM Sameer Verma <sve...@sfsu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Sameer
>>>
>>> On Sep 15, 2017 7:15 AM, "Samson Goddy" <samsongo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 15, 2017 3:12 PM, "Walter Bender" <walter.ben...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The discussion regarding the status of the xo-computer icon seems to be
>>>> going around  in circles. In my opinion, this makes it even more imperative
>>>> that the Sugar Labs oversight board respond to Tony's questions so that
>>>> Tony can proceed with his investigation in to our options.
>>>>
>>>> To state the obvious, this discussion is not about whether or not we
>>>> can change the xo-computer icon -- we can do that at any time in
>>>> consultation with our design team. The discussion is about whether or not
>>>> we make that decision on our own terms or be forced into a change.
>>>>
>>>> Motion: To answer the questions posed by the SFC regarding the
>>>> xo-computer icon as follows:
>>>> (Q1) Why is the XO logo included in the sugar-artwork repo now -- and
>>>> does the SLOBs want to keep it there?
>>>> (A1) The xo-computer icon has been part of Sugar since we first
>>>> designed and built Sugar (beginning in 2006) and we would like to keep it
>>>> there until such time as the design team decides there is a reason to
>>>> change it.
>>>> (Q2) Assuming the SLOBs want to keep the XO logo in sugar-artwork:
>>>> what outcome would the SLOBs *prefer* to see happen?  E.g.,
>>>> - Does Sugar want downstream users to be able to redistribute and
>>>> modify Sugar's codebase with or without the XO trademark file included in
>>>> the program?
>>>> - Does the SLOBs want downstream users to be able to modify and
>>>> redistribute the XO trademark image itself, or is that less important to
>>>> Sugar?
>>>> (A2) Sugar Artwork, including the xo-computer icon, is currently
>>>> licensed under the GPL and we would like our downstream users to be able to
>>>> use all of our artwork under the terms of that license. As far as the use
>>>> of any trademark image outside of the context of Sugar, we have no opinion.
>>>>
>>>> I'd appreciate if someone would second this motion and, if it passes,
>>>> the results be reported to Tony by Adam, our SFC liaison. Of course, if the
>>>> motion does not pass, we will need to continue the discussion.
>>>>
>>>> I second the motion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> regards.
>>>>
>>>> -walter
>>>>
>>>> -- Forwarded message 

Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] [SLOBS] [SLOB] xo-computer icon

[Sean DALY]

Sure — Sugar Labs restricted the "freedom" of a Windows PC reseller in the
UK to market "Sugar computers". We made the effort to register and defend
our trademark in the interest of the project. I recall having alerted OLPC
when I spotted a potential infringement of their xo trademark — a nearly
identical design used by a European bank. Their counsel decided not to
pursue it, as the registered Nice classes were different. This would have
changed if the bank had marketed software.

A good primer on copyright and trademark issues for free/libre software can
be found here:
https://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2008/foss-primer.html#x1-660005.4.2

Sean.


Le jeu. 14 sept. 2017 à 09:02, Sebastian Silva <sebast...@fuentelibre.org>
a écrit :

> On 14/09/17 08:00, Sean DALY wrote:
> > Sebastian — these principles apply to copyright, not trademarks,
> > patents, or trade secrets.
> >
> > Sean
> Sean,
>
> Principles apply universally.
>
> What you mean is that Software Freedom is based on copyright law, not
> trademark law.
>
> I understand this. However Trademark is often used to limit user's
> freedoms.
>
> Regards,
> Sebastian
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] [SLOBS] [SLOB] xo-computer icon

[Sean DALY]

Sebastian — these principles apply to copyright, not trademarks, patents,
or trade secrets.

Sean

Le jeu. 14 sept. 2017 à 08:50, Sebastian Silva <sebast...@fuentelibre.org>
a écrit :

>
>
> On 14/09/17 07:37, Sean DALY wrote:
>
> Laura, I am not a lawyer, but the inclusion of a trademarked logo does not
> make software nonfree.
>
> Neither am I, but the criteria for libre software is easy enough to
> understand. Here it is (in my own words):
>
> Freedom 0: The liberty to use for *any *purpose
> Freedom 1: The liberty to make *modifications*
> Freedom 2: The liberty to *redistribute *to others
> Freedom 3: The liberty to *distribute modified* copies
>
> A trademark in the main interface icon clearly inhibits Freedom 0, 1 and 3.
>
> Regards,
> Sebastian
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [SLOBS] [SLOB] xo-computer icon

[Sean DALY]

Laura, I am not a lawyer, but the inclusion of a trademarked logo does not
make software nonfree. Software is copyrighted after all; it's the license
that brings freedom to it. In the absence of a formal trademark agreement,
lawyers look at the way a trademark is used, and what the trademark owner
has tolerated. In the case of OLPC, there is clearly a longstanding policy
of approval, given the shared history of OLPC and Sugar, and the use of the
logo in good faith with OLPC's principles.

We have defended the Sugar Labs trademark in the past, and will do so again
if there is usage in bad faith or through ignorance. The GNOME Foundation
may very well defend its trademark if the proposed new logo is published,
which is why major branding changes must always be reviewed — due diligence
to avoid a trademark dispute is part of any rebranding process.

Walter asked the SFC for clarification on this issue eight years ago, but
to my knowledge we didn't receive a legal opinion then. It hasn't been a
problem, because our use of the OLPC logo has always been in good faith,
with their knowledge. There is no urgency in the proposed change.

Sean.


Le jeu. 14 sept. 2017 à 07:58, Laura Vargas  a
écrit :

> 2017-09-14 6:56 GMT-05:00 Martin Abente :
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Laura Vargas 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Walter,
>>>
>>> Nobody needs to be a lawyer to understand this.
>>>
>>> *We (sugar labs users) simply didn't have permission to do use therefore
>>> it was removed.*
>>>
>>>
>>> Any one else interested in Sugar UI in the Community is welcome to join
>>> forces and help me address this issue as an opportunity for the Community
>>> to work together engaging in a Collaborative Design Dynamic and if required
>>> define a more suitable substitute for Sebastian's commit.
>>>
>>
>> How can you say "work together" and "engaging in a Collaborative design"
>> while Sebastian just pushed to master his own design unilaterally. Revert
>> it, and then someone might take this invitation seriously.
>>
>
> I cannot revert it since the OLPC logo has a Trademark and it will make
> Sugar not Free/Libre Software.
>
> I propose October 1 to 15 for the Marathon.
>
> Regards
>
> --
> Laura V.
> * I SomosAZUCAR.Org*
>
> “Solo la tecnología libre nos hará libres.”
> ~ L. Victoria
>
> Happy Learning!
> #LearningByDoing
> #Projects4good
> #IDesignATSugarLabs
> #WeCanDoBetter
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Re: [Sugar-devel] logo dicussion

[Sean DALY]

There is zero urgency in changing the xo logo, which has been in Sugar
since its inception, with its use encouraged by OLPC. On the contrary,
rushing to a logo which may infringe the GNOME Foundation's trademark could
land Sugar Labs and the SFC in difficulty.

And in any case, any major branding change should at the very least be done
with the Design and Marketing teams, with SLOBs approval. It's true that
the teams have not been active lately (Dave Crossland is in charge of
marketing now), but it's not a reason to bypass stakeholders, and certainly
not a reason to bypass the SLOBs.

I distinctly remember we (Marketing & Design Teams) consulted with OLPC for
our booth roll-up and poster designs [1], and at their suggestion, centered
the globe icon with xo children around it - the early draft designs had a
large xo in the center and we respected OLPC's wish to design marketing
materials to resemble the Sugar interface.

Sean

[1] https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Booth_Banners


On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 8:43 PM, Laura Vargas <la...@somosazucar.org> wrote:

>
> 2017-09-13 16:02 GMT-05:00 Sean DALY <sdaly...@gmail.com>:
>
>> In the past, OLPC was amenable to the use of the xo logo in Sugar, but
>> asked we not use it in marketing materials without a formal co-branding
>> licensing agreement.
>>
> ...
> 1. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2008-December/003059.html
>
> Thank you Sean for the reference.
>
> This confirms *Sugar Labs needs to* *remove the old XO Trademarked logo
> from all marketing materials*, including training materials and of course
> Sugar Lab's website.
>
> cc to SLOBs
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Laura V.
> * I SomosAZUCAR.Org*
>
> “Solo la tecnología libre nos hará libres.”
> ~ L. Victoria
>
> Happy Learning!
> #LearningByDoing
> #Projects4good
> #IDesignATSugarLabs
> #WeCanDoBetter
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] logo dicussion

[Sean DALY]

In the past, OLPC was amenable to the use of the xo logo in Sugar, but
asked we not use it in marketing materials without a formal co-branding
licensing agreement. [1,2]

The proposed feet logo is likely a violation of the GNOME Foundation
trademark, more info on their site [3].

Sean.

1. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2008-December/003059.html
2. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2011-October/014245.html
3.
https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/FoundationBoard/Resources/LicensingGuidelines?action=show=Foundation%2FLicensingGuidelines


On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Walter Bender 
wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Laura Vargas 
> wrote:
>
>> Am attaching the previous brand icon Trademark just for reference.
>>
>
> The question is more complex than whether or not OLPC received a
> trademark. Was it ever applicable to our use in Sugar? Is it still valid?
> Note that "a failure to enforce a trademark by monitoring the mark for
> misuses will result in a weakening of the mark and loss of distinctiveness,
> which can lead to a loss of the trademark." [1] Sugar Labs has been using
> xo-computer.svg and has never, as far as I know, received any notification
> that we are infringing. I don't know the answers to these questions, which
> is why I asked that our lawyer look into it.
>
> [1] https://www.justia.com/intellectual-property/trademarks/enforcement/
>
> regards.
>
> -walter
>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2017-09-13 13:16 GMT-05:00 Laura Vargas :
>>
>>> Hi Alex,
>>>
>>> Yes Sugar user interface needed to urgently get rid of any Trademark at
>>> all. We can breath now :D
>>>
>>> If you don't like the feet feel free to propose a new option or a
>>> dynamic for our Community to accomplish a new one collaboratively.  I
>>> really like the cute little finger color's.
>>>
>>> See how it looks here:
>>>
>>> http://laboratoriosazucar.org/azucarizador/
>>>
>>> There is still an urgent need for 111.1 Sugar release including this
>>> change.
>>>
>>> Am not sure whether or not Sugar Labs has currently a release Manager.
>>>
>>> Maybe if we propose a "Christmas Edition" for 111.1 I'll get to inspire
>>> some heroes to help us out.
>>>
>>> It would be ideal, if we can also add some other critical features
>>> required like the elimination of the male/female initial question.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Laura
>>>
>>> 2017-09-13 12:06 GMT-05:00 Alex Perez :
>>>
 On this subject, I may have missed this, but where did the (IMHO awful)
 "feet" icon come from, who approved its use, and was the board involved
 with the decision? It seems a fairly central branding decision.

 Walter Bender 
 Wednesday, September 13, 2017 5:49 AM
 Regarding https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-artwork/pull/96 it would
 be helpful to get Tony's feedback. Can you please contact him as our
 liaison to the SFC?

 regards.

 -walter

 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org

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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Laura V.
>>> * I SomosAZUCAR.Org*
>>>
>>> “Solo la tecnología libre nos hará libres.”
>>> ~ L. Victoria
>>>
>>> Happy Learning!
>>> #LearningByDoing
>>> #Projects4good
>>> #IDesignATSugarLabs
>>> #WeCanDoBetter
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Laura V.
>> * I SomosAZUCAR.Org*
>>
>> “Solo la tecnología libre nos hará libres.”
>> ~ L. Victoria
>>
>> Happy Learning!
>> #LearningByDoing
>> #Projects4good
>> #IDesignATSugarLabs
>> #WeCanDoBetter
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> 
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Sur] [SLOBS] [IAEP] [SLOB] another motion (Quispe trip to Translation Summit)

[Sean DALY]

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Oversight_Board/Decisions

This page is very useful.


On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 7:38 PM, Claudia Urrea  wrote:

> Dave and all,
>
> I think we need someone to admin the motions. We have too many (pass,
> pending votes and pending endorsement for vote, etc.), they become depend
> on each other and we get stuck not being able to move forward.
>
> Motions are posted and by the time I read them, they have received several
> comments and have evolved into something different. Could we call them
> something different before they have received enough comments and have been
> refined, so they can quickly move to approval process?
>
> Claudia
>
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 11:06 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 4 June 2016 at 00:07, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 3 June 2016 at 14:38, Adam Holt  wrote:
>>>
 On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 4:33 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> On 12 May 2016 at 07:59, Walter Bender 
> wrote:
> > Motion: to reimburse Edgar Quispe for expenses incurred representing
> Sugar
> > Labs at the Traducción e interpretación en las lenguas originarias
> del Perú
> > meeting in Lima. The cost is $168.88.
>
> Did this motion pass?


 Yes.


> I can't find a record of it in my email.


>>> How do Members know when motions pass or fail?
>>>
>>
>> I am waiting for an answer to this question.
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] A Better Idea...

[Sean DALY]

On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Laura Vargas  wrote:

> Thanks for reading/commenting



Thanks Laura, I have made some additions.

Dave - I don't agree that whomever submits a grant application becomes the
treasurer for those funds. What should happen is a sales cycle: if there is
interest, the SLOBs should be in the loop so they can assist with
face-to-face meetings, followup documents, and Adam/SFC liaison issues.
Document signings involving Walter require prior SFC review. In my view,
disbursal of funds from a successful grant should be managed by SFC/SLOBs
(perhaps primarily in the role of a Finance Manager or Treasurer), as per
Gould or TripAdvisor.

Sean.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Suggestions

[Sean DALY]

On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 8:05 PM, samson goddy 
wrote:

>  And Sean, i really want to make this madatory to all members in SL. Since
> you are in-charge of marketing how can i get started?



Samson - I'm afraid there's no mandatory anything :-) nearly all of us are
unpaid volunteers... I'm nobody's boss, and it's better that way.

The best way to ask SL members to engage, and for people to like & share
what we post, is for us to be clear about what we are doing. We shouldn't
just ask everyone to post anything. Let's assume you want to do developer
recruitment. What skills we need most right now? Shall we post a "job ad",
stating very clearly that it is an unpaid volunteer post? GSoC is underway.
Perhaps we should post something about that. But what? here's where
planning comes in. How do we show the work being done? the mentoring? in a
way that's fair to all the participants?

As I've said I think it's great you want to take initiative on social
media, even if I don't think SL can pay a salary. I myself am unable to put
in the time. I'm just trying to say we have to build stories and a little
planning goes a long way.

Sean
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Go Social via Social Media

[Sean DALY]

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Ifeanyi Peter 
wrote:

> Maybe anytime we have suggestions that concerns Marketing, we would just
> forward it to the Marketing Dept. for review. How to I join the marketing
> team as well, I have some suggestions.



Thanks Ifeanyi

To join the Marketing team, just subscribe to the Marketing list:
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing

There is also a wiki section:
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team

The team is small and we have been dormant, as I've explained before
because I am not sure what the SL message should be - where we are going.
We don't have funds for market studies, but I believe that for anyone able
to identify OLPC in unaided awareness, we are considered linked to OLPC and
many casual observers are probably unaware that OLPC is still around.

SL has been tops in SEO for years, which is a great asset - many
organizations cannot say that. Anyone searching for us finds us easily.
What they don't find is a clear message from us, and software to try with
1-click install. This last has a lot do with Sugar's IT architecture, and
it is my hope that Sugarizer (and other approaches such as Activities
running outside Sugar) can introduce Sugar to teachers more easily.

Sean.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Go Social via Social Media (Proposal/Motion)

[Sean DALY]

I'm sorry, I don't see how SL can support a new paid position. My
suggestion would be to evaluate how the paid Translation Manager position
works out.

I'm glad Samson you are eager to work on social media (as I've said),
however I don't understand your marketing objectives. Put another way, just
what content, from where, will generate lots of likes and clicks, towards
what goal? I think the goal is developer recruitment, not for teachers or
education IT buyers, or small donors, or major donors. If they matter too,
do we use the same plan and tactics for them?

As I've said, I am opposed to associating random advertising with Sugar
Labs for negligeable income. We should really do Google AdGrants. This can
be done in cooperation with the SFC which is the nonprofit entity which
will qualify (and Dave - we shouldn't try to control their account for
this).

I am pleased there is motivation to work on PR, however major media tech
sites won't publish anything about us unless we have news, and right now we
don't. (Ifeanyi - it's not the case that buying ads from news sites will
generate coverage, that's not how journalists work.)

I'm not comfortable with the idea of creating a Facebook-only version of
Sugarizer (? if there are resources to do so?) - as fun and ubiquitous as
fb is, it's a proprietary environment with highly questionable privacy
policies. It's already possible to link to a public website from Facebook,
this would be far better.

The previous times I have raised these points they haven't been answered.
Perhaps the time has come for me to step away from Marketing/PR at SL and
let you guys reinvent the wheel.

Sean


On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 11:11 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> [ Here is the full text of the doc, by Samson with editing assistance
> by myself ]
>
> Concerning SL vision 2016, I think that SL should add social media as
> one of our main ways to get new members. With the big name we have, we
> should use that as an advantage to get people into our community - but
> we aren’t.
>
> Let me use myself as an example, I am a very active user in the social
> world (facebook, twitter, instagram, and YouTube) even though I don’t
> have a smartphone or a laptop of my own to use regularly. I have over
> 560 followers on twitter. According to twitter official report, my
> tweets receive more than 1.9k impressions per day. For the past 28
> days I have gotten over 42.4k impressions. My lowest impression is
> about 50 on a tweet. My highest tweet is about 4,800 on a tweet. Now
> imagine if SL can get this number of impressions by activeness alone
> on twitter. Same goes to facebook, also posting images on instagram.
> We can get more than 400 impressions a day via twitter, Also facebook
> and instagram. If we do the math correctly, SL can get over 600 people
> a day from social media to sugarlabs.org. That’s valuable traffic for
> our sites.
>
>
> How do we get started with this new development?
>
>
> It’s very simple; I propose the following motion:
>
>
> Motion: create a “Social Media Manager,” role, similar to the
> translation manager position, paid $1,000/month plus discretionary use
> of an advertising budget of $100/month.
>
>
> I believe that the role will not be taken seriously if it is volunteer
> driven. I am in charge of the social accounts of my church,another
> non-profit organization. Their social media marketing was also not
> taken seriously until the church made a modestly paid role. The church
> community and I both saw it as a responsibility when the role was
> paid; and my work was effective, as now we have over 4,000 followers
> on facebook.
>
>
> Money should be spent in order to gain more. More social media
> followers will lead to more active members which will lead to member
> donations. I know it’s a non-profit organization but that does not
> mean we shouldn’t grow.
>
> To get my contract approved by SLOBs. I spent almost 100 USD (21,000
> naira) in cyber cafes answering questions that were not related to my
> project, so if anyone does not understand this proposal, I strongly
> suggest they make research on the internet first before asking
> questions, because I will not answer if the questions are not
> relevant.
>
>
> I believe in the growth of SL, but I think we can’t grow big if we are
> not doing well on social media. Even if I am not experienced in
> business, based on the fact that I am still young and not yet a
> college graduate, this seems essential to any non-profit business. I
> always thank God for Nigeria because even if the government is not
> doing well, we Nigerians always find a way to thrive with any little
> chance we find because of the way we think and live. Social media is
> now essential for all organizations in all countries, including
> Nigeria.
>
>
> According to our last report on activities.sugarlabs.org our weekly
> download is getting lower and lower, though over 11 million activities
> have been downloaded in total.
>
>
> What 

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] A Better Idea...

[Sean DALY]

Hi Caryl

I think you're saying that all SLOBs should be active fundraisers as part
of the role?

We could also say we "need a team of dedicated volunteers" to work on
adapting Sugar Activities to curricula, on developing teacher tools, on
providing support, on adding platforms, on localization, even on marketing.
Our challenge is to advance with whom we have, and recruit others to help.

Volunteer recruitment, like microdonations or major grants, involves
communicating a compelling vision of "Why Sugar?"

Perhaps trying to thrash out texts is not the best approach - maybe we
should start with why we the volunteers are convinced about Sugar, and
think about distilling our Vision from that.

Sean




On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 6:18 PM, Caryl Bigenho  wrote:

> Hi Folks…
>
> "Nickel and dimeing" members doesn't seem to be a viable option. Not
> enough funds would be raised for all the wonderful things Dave (and many
> others) envision. Having an easy means for patrons to donate would be
> wonderful. But, the best way to raise funds for projects is probably
> through an active "Development Committee" similar to those used by
> educational institutions and other non-profits.
>
> So, you may ask, what is a Development Committee and what do they do? As
> the fundraising arm of the organization, it is tasked with seeking out
> funding sources. For SugarLabs that might be mostly through competitive
> grants.
>
> We have missed out on some important ones already, such as:
>
> the Adult Literacy X-Prize (1)… team sign ups closed last December 15 and
>
> the Global Learning X-Prize (2), (which seems a perfect fit for Sugar
> Labs) closed in April of 2015
>
> And, what was SLOB doing when these opportunities came and went? In 2015
> they were concerned with GCI, the election, GSOC, Turtle Arts Days, etc.
> and in 2014 it was more of the same. Nothing about funding opportunities!
>
>  I can't believe we totally missed the Global Learning one. It was such a
> good fit that I know we could have done very well.
>
> We need a team of dedicated volunteers to continually search for new
> opportunities, such as these, that would be a good fit. It should be
> organized  with a volunteer chairperson and volunteer members who would
> continuously be on the look out for possible grant opportunities and
> discuss them using whatever platform they choose to use. The chairperson,
> or a designee, could report at the monthly meetings what they had found…
> either "nothing" or "X, Y, and Z."
>
> The board could decide to approve or disapprove moving forward with any of
> these opportunities with a simple floor motion.
>
> Caryl
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (1) http://adultliteracy.xprize.org
>
> (2) http://learning.xprize.org
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] Smart way to get $$ for posting videos on youtube

[Sean DALY]

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 6:27 PM, samson goddy 
wrote:

> should we use the adventage of the monetizing



My point of view is that we "monetize" through CTAs and fundraising, rather
than wait 27 years to get the resources we need through random ads.

Sean.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] Smart way to get $$ for posting videos on youtube

[Sean DALY]

Yes Samson, the SFC fulfills these criteria. I am sure we would qualify.
But as Adam says, let's sort out what we want to do first before going to
the SFC. First step is a donor link which lands on their page with SL as
prefilled choice.

I suggest we try to go for Google Ad Grants, but this requires work (e.g.
which keywords, and what our marketing goals are - fundraising for example).

I suggest we skip the low-revenue random-ad approach and work on our calls
to action (these are really "our own ads" that pop up during video plays).
Again we need to decide what our marketing objectives are - I think
fundraising is an excellent first step. We can also do developer
recruitment, new-software marketing, etc.

To start a fundraising drive, we need the community to be behind a common
shared vision.

Sean


On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 6:02 PM, samson goddy 
wrote:

>
> sean can you check this out, i don't think we are qualified for this,
> https://www.google.com/nonprofits/account/signup/us?hl=en
> --
> From: sdaly...@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 17:46:04 +0200
> Subject: Re: [Marketing] [Sugar-devel] Smart way to get $$ for posting
> videos on youtube
> To: samsongo...@hotmail.com
> CC: d...@lab6.com; market...@lists.sugarlabs.org;
> sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org; sam.parkins...@gmail.com;
> walter.ben...@gmail.com
>
> Samson - what about Google's program for nonprofits?
>
> https://www.google.com/grants/
>
> Sean
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 5:34 PM, samson goddy 
> wrote:
>
>
> okay i am going to create an open doc in google then explain further about
> the video ads. The youtube ads is not as you think, that's why me and dave
> will submit a doc to explain more about the youtube ads.
> --
> From: sdaly...@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 17:27:57 +0200
> To: d...@lab6.com
> CC: market...@lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org;
> sam.parkins...@gmail.com; walter.ben...@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Marketing] [Sugar-devel] Smart way to get $$ for posting
> videos on youtube
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
> I am eager to see real data on this
>
>
>
> YouTube advertiser RPM (revenue per thousand views), called eCPM by
> YouTube ("effective cost per thousand"), commonly varies from 50 US cents
> to $5 (before Google's Adsense 45% cut). I say commonly, because like many
> historical advertising networks Google makes efforts to make estimations
> complicated - ad serving is dynamic and many factors are involved. So let's
> say we get 10,000 video impressions over the month. That will generate a
> whopping $3 to $30 US for the month (I am being ironic). Whereas if we ever
> manage to get 10,000 video impressions on a YouTube channel in a month (a
> true marketing challenge), we could serve 10,000 requests to "find out more
> about Sugar Labs" and "Donate Today". Let's assume we can generate those
> massive views (without cats, dogs, or rabbits) and obtain a conversion rate
> of 0.5% - not unreasonable, since someone watching our vids is probably a
> qualified lead, interested in education tech or libre software in
> education. That would be 50 people who have visited the SL site instead of
> a random ad for clothing or pharmaceuticals. Now let's say the average
> donation is $5. That's $250 in the month, and we have brought visitors to
> our site and communicated our vision. Now let's say one of the 10,000
> impressions is someone who works for a philanthropic foundation and is
> researching projects to donate to, and a $10,000 donation is made. In that
> lucky scenario, we would need to serve underwear, telecom, or new car ads
> for approximately 27 years at 10K visits per month.
>
> Sean.
>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] Smart way to get $$ for posting videos on youtube

[Sean DALY]

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 5:51 PM, Walter Bender 
wrote:

> How about "turtle in a box" videos? That would be aligned with our
> mission/vision :)



Indeed! if there is any way to generate zillions of views it's with turtles
;-)
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] Smart way to get $$ for posting videos on youtube

[Sean DALY]

Samson - what about Google's program for nonprofits?

https://www.google.com/grants/

Sean



On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 5:34 PM, samson goddy 
wrote:

>
> okay i am going to create an open doc in google then explain further about
> the video ads. The youtube ads is not as you think, that's why me and dave
> will submit a doc to explain more about the youtube ads.
> --
> From: sdaly...@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 17:27:57 +0200
> To: d...@lab6.com
> CC: market...@lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org;
> sam.parkins...@gmail.com; walter.ben...@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Marketing] [Sugar-devel] Smart way to get $$ for posting
> videos on youtube
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
> I am eager to see real data on this
>
>
>
> YouTube advertiser RPM (revenue per thousand views), called eCPM by
> YouTube ("effective cost per thousand"), commonly varies from 50 US cents
> to $5 (before Google's Adsense 45% cut). I say commonly, because like many
> historical advertising networks Google makes efforts to make estimations
> complicated - ad serving is dynamic and many factors are involved. So let's
> say we get 10,000 video impressions over the month. That will generate a
> whopping $3 to $30 US for the month (I am being ironic). Whereas if we ever
> manage to get 10,000 video impressions on a YouTube channel in a month (a
> true marketing challenge), we could serve 10,000 requests to "find out more
> about Sugar Labs" and "Donate Today". Let's assume we can generate those
> massive views (without cats, dogs, or rabbits) and obtain a conversion rate
> of 0.5% - not unreasonable, since someone watching our vids is probably a
> qualified lead, interested in education tech or libre software in
> education. That would be 50 people who have visited the SL site instead of
> a random ad for clothing or pharmaceuticals. Now let's say the average
> donation is $5. That's $250 in the month, and we have brought visitors to
> our site and communicated our vision. Now let's say one of the 10,000
> impressions is someone who works for a philanthropic foundation and is
> researching projects to donate to, and a $10,000 donation is made. In that
> lucky scenario, we would need to serve underwear, telecom, or new car ads
> for approximately 27 years at 10K visits per month.
>
> Sean.
>
>
> ___ Marketing mailing list
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] Smart way to get $$ for posting videos on youtube

[Sean DALY]

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> I am eager to see real data on this



YouTube advertiser RPM (revenue per thousand views), called eCPM by YouTube
("effective cost per thousand"), commonly varies from 50 US cents to $5
(before Google's Adsense 45% cut). I say commonly, because like many
historical advertising networks Google makes efforts to make estimations
complicated - ad serving is dynamic and many factors are involved. So let's
say we get 10,000 video impressions over the month. That will generate a
whopping $3 to $30 US for the month (I am being ironic). Whereas if we ever
manage to get 10,000 video impressions on a YouTube channel in a month (a
true marketing challenge), we could serve 10,000 requests to "find out more
about Sugar Labs" and "Donate Today". Let's assume we can generate those
massive views (without cats, dogs, or rabbits) and obtain a conversion rate
of 0.5% - not unreasonable, since someone watching our vids is probably a
qualified lead, interested in education tech or libre software in
education. That would be 50 people who have visited the SL site instead of
a random ad for clothing or pharmaceuticals. Now let's say the average
donation is $5. That's $250 in the month, and we have brought visitors to
our site and communicated our vision. Now let's say one of the 10,000
impressions is someone who works for a philanthropic foundation and is
researching projects to donate to, and a $10,000 donation is made. In that
lucky scenario, we would need to serve underwear, telecom, or new car ads
for approximately 27 years at 10K visits per month.

Sean.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] Smart way to get $$ for posting videos on youtube

[Sean DALY]

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> I'm not saying if $X or $Y is greater; I am saying that we don't know
> which is greater, and Samson will learn a lot by trying to maximize
> the revenue of both.
>


In that case, I'm saying random ads will generate peanuts, while
well-thought out fundraising will generate resources greater than peanuts.
Sean
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Smart way to get $$ for posting videos on youtube

[Sean DALY]

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 7:03 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Your assertion that SL would see more revenue from CTA compared to ads.



How can I make up data for a fundraising drive which hasn't happened yet?
Sean
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Smart way to get $$ for posting videos on youtube

[Sean DALY]

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 6:53 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> What data do you have to back up this assertion? :)



Um, which assertion?
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Smart way to get $$ for posting videos on youtube

[Sean DALY]

I myself don't see an upside with allowing random ads to be associated with
Sugar Labs, for the tiny amount of income we might receive. If indeed our
US nonprofit status through SFC would allow gains from advertising. Far
better to do Calls to Action ("CTA" in their jargon) and Annotations,
requesting donations.

I support Samuel's suggestion to regroup our social media accounts and
publish a posting policy modelled on Cloudstack's.

Leaving aside our small content stream, a fundraising drive needs a
compelling story about our vision and goals. I'm not sure what that story
should be.

Sean



On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 12:29 PM, Sam Parkinson 
wrote:

> Hi Samson,
>
> Last time I checked, Wikipedia was proudly add free (and asking for
> donations to stay that way).
>
> I don't think we should put ads on our wiki.  I believe that we have the
> hosting of the wiki funded/donated.  And the adds can look very trashy and
> unprofessional - no other serious projects have them.
>
> Maybe we can get away with youtube ads, given that people might blame it
> on youtube.  But is it worth doing it?  Isn't the revenue around $0.40/1000
> views?  Do we even have 1000 views?  Is that worth the effect hosting ads
> has on our image?
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 5:39 PM, samson goddy 
> wrote:
>
> Apart from the youtube adsense google also use ads, but just like android
> is one bad idea. We can embed ads in our texts in our wiki page. Just the
> same way wikipedia does. There is also text ads. Seems like google give
> about 0.30 usd per ads.
>
> --
> From: d...@lab6.com
> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 17:09:47 -0600
> To: sam...@greenfeld.org
> CC: samsongo...@hotmail.com; market...@lists.sugarlabs.org;
> sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org; sam.parkins...@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Smart way to get $$ for posting videos on
> youtube
>
>
> On 1 June 2016 at 17:07, Samuel Greenfeld  wrote:
>
> I would have to ask to see what they are using.
>
>
> Please do! :)
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Open Source fonts

[Sean DALY]

Hi Ütkarsh,

you could look at the Libertine Open Fonts Project (GPL/OPL)
http://www.linuxlibertine.org

Sean


On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 8:36 PM, Ütkarsh Tiwari 
wrote:

> Hi,
> Could anyone here please suggest any open source fonts which I can
> use in my acitivities or provide me link to any such open source font
> store?
>
> Thanks,
> Utkarsh Tiwari
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] [SLOB] another motion (Quispe trip to Translation Summit)

[Sean DALY]

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 10:25 PM, Walter Bender 
wrote:

> Done.



Wow! bravo Walter that was quick!!
Sean
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] [SLOB] another motion (Quispe trip to Translation Summit)

[Sean DALY]

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 7:45 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Fortunately, SLOBs votes are done via email, at any time, and the monthly
> SLOBs meetings are there to unjam any backlogs.



ah I was under the impression that motions were debated and voted in the
meetings, with recourse to e-mail when meeting time ran out after debate
but before a vote.

Nobody's in thrall to a higher power here, and if the SFC requires every
single expenditure to be voted, there is a reason, and perhaps the reason
isn't valid. With resources limited as they are, we need to be vigilant
about bureaucracy, that's all.

Speaking of which, the SLOBs may wish to consider a motion numbering system
such as is used by legislatures. It could simplify referencing previous
decisions, in particular providing a search engine handle which could be
used to reconcile authorized expenditures. And motions could be more easily
listed for governance history.

Sean
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] [SLOB] another motion (Quispe trip to Translation Summit)

[Sean DALY]

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 4:28 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> FWIW I think this is reasonable, since the board have shared and equal
> financial responsibility for the Conservancy account.


In my view it's theoretically reasonable, however there is a real risk of
red tape logjam. It's quite common for orgs to set a reasonable amount
limit for expenditures not requiring formal votes, to reduce bureaucratic
delays (i.e. waiting for the next meeting then spending time on it). It's
also quite common for all such expenses to be accounted for anyway, and for
the limit to be adjusted up or down per requirements, to better focus on
the important issues at hand.

Sean
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] [SLOB] GSoC mentor stipend motion

[Sean DALY]

satellit sent me a useful link on how the Donate wiki page was edited.

I didn't know about the sl.o change so was unable to archive the old site,
but the Internet Archive has done an excellent job in that department. The
original Paypal donate button on the wiki page directed to Paypal login,
but I don't know how that landed at SFC. However, the SFC has just such a
button up and running (in addition to other options):

https://sfconservancy.org/donate/

If we could set up their checkout link to replace:

Software Freedom Conservancy, Inc.
Reference: General

with

Software Freedom Conservancy, Inc.
Reference: Sugar Labs

we'd be all set.

I don't know how to do that, but Paypal has documentation:
https://developer.paypal.com/docs/classic/paypal-payments-standard/integration-guide/donation_buttons/

Adam - could you ask SFC if we can piggyback their donation setup? Ideally
not just the Donate button, but the other methods too?

Sean



On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Sean DALY <sdaly...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net>
> wrote:
>
>> More importantly, I think the first step is to provide a simple way for
>> members or non-members to donate to support Sugar Labs. Is this paypal,
>> credit card or   Is this something that SFC must provide or can
>> SugarLabs do this on its own?
>>
>
>
> The previous site had a donate button on the homepage, but this was
> disappeared.
>
> Sean
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] [SLOB] GSoC mentor stipend motion

[Sean DALY]

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Tony Anderson 
wrote:

> More importantly, I think the first step is to provide a simple way for
> members or non-members to donate to support Sugar Labs. Is this paypal,
> credit card or   Is this something that SFC must provide or can
> SugarLabs do this on its own?
>


The previous site had a donate button on the homepage, but this was
disappeared.

Sean
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] [SLOB] meeting reminder and some open issues to discuss

[Sean DALY]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 4:28 AM, Sam Parkinson 
wrote:

> Us volunteers write code, make releases, do user testing, etc.


Sam - I'm not aware that anyone here is other than "us volunteers".

Dues are how many if not most normally functioning nonprofits operate. I am
co-founder and treasurer of a small musical event nonprofit and dues are
the major source of annual income to cover expenses. I am also on the board
of a medium sized nonprofit (library support, >300 members) and the major
portion of operating revenue is from dues. I pay dues to a musical
instruction association, and vote for officers. Etc.

I believe collecting dues is a fine idea. Arrangements are always possible
for the levels - my musical nonprofit has regular dues at €20,
family/household at €30, student/unemployed at €10, sponsor at €100 (their
names are printed on the programs).

Of course, dues paying members expect and are entitled to annual financial
reporting.

Sean
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Re: [Sugar-devel] facebook verification

[Sean DALY]

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 1:20 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> What is the US trademark registration number?
>
> What is the trademarked goods and services class number?
>


US Serial Number: 7763427
US Registration Number: 365724
International Class: 9
US Classes: 021, 023, 026, 036, 038

All info is available on TESS (
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess=4806:3wjoo2.1.1)

I very strongly advise anyone wanting to deal with trademark issues,
including recovering squatted social media accounts, to work with the SFC,
who registered and maintain the trademark and handle legal matters
pertaining to our mark.

Sean
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Newbie on Sugar

[Sean DALY]

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 3:40 AM, Tony Anderson  wrote:

> I suppose on Windows, Notepad+ is still the best choice. I haven't worked
> on a Mac for twenty years and so - no help.



FWIW, I like PSPad on Windows and TextWrangler on Mac OS, both have tools
for coders.

Sean
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Re: [Sugar-devel] facebook verification

[Sean DALY]

Hi Samson,

I looked and couldn't find any way to verify through the fb account I have

Sean


On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 10:25 PM, samson goddy 
wrote:

> Hello,
> I and Dave are doing the proposal to get the facebook page verified here
> is the pull request from github. Sean i guess you have to approve this.
> https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs/pull/21
>
> Samson
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] GSoC 2016 Website Redesign

[Sean DALY]

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Walter Bender 
wrote:

> The site is hosted in github now [1], so we can accept pull requests (or
> comments/issues) for changes. Could you please let us know what typos you
> found?
>
> [1] https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs
>


Ah hi Walter what's the best way to comment/point out an issue? Do I need
to create an account with Github or will my SL wiki account work?
Sean
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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC 2016 Website Redesign

[Sean DALY]

Hi Dave

I'm not being negative, just surprised that the site was changed. My ideal
process is to involve marketers in marketing, but that's very unusual for
FLOSS projects :-)

In fact the homepage does cycle the logo variants - that's good!

There are typos in the text though... who can fix those?

I am relieved to see that the press page survived at its permalink.

Sean


On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Dave Crossland <d...@lab6.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> On 21 April 2016 at 09:08, Sean DALY <sdaly...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I didn't realize the existing site had been scrapped already.
>>
>
> I would like to ask you to be more positive about the new members of the
> community being enthusiastic about contributing.
>
>
>> FWIW, the Sugar branding calls for randomly switching between the logo
>> color schemes [1] on reload. The old site (where ?) did this
>>
>
> What is your ideal process for changing the Sugar Branding Guidelines?
>
> Cheers
> Dave
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC 2016 Website Redesign

[Sean DALY]

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Juan Carlos Murillo  wrote:

> Also, if there is a range of different colors for the logo, then a good
> idea might be to use the same logo color for the websites that have more
> related content between them (i.e. homepage and activities).


I didn't realize the existing site had been scrapped already.

FWIW, the Sugar branding calls for randomly switching between the logo
color schemes [1] on reload. The old site (where ?) did this

Sean

[1] https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Logo
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Vision

[Sean DALY]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 6:48 AM, James Cameron  wrote:

> > but I can not find any evidence that XP was - [...] - ever shipped
> > by OLPC, [...]
>
> None.  Windows XP required a PC architecture, which the early models
> were capable of, and the systems were engineered, but there were no
> customer orders, so we never shipped it.  (My guess is that people
> said they wanted it, but when it came to the crunch they didn't).
>


My understanding is that performance was awful with the baseline hardware
RAM, and the Windows license added $3 or so per unit, so naturally
customers disdained the offer. There was loads of negative chatter on the
Web at the time, silly memes that MS had somehow "taken over" OLPC were
constantly repeated. OLPC made no effort to combat that perception,
reasoning that what developers said on Slashdot was irrelevant and all that
mattered was the competition for customer contracts, at the time Classmate
PCs running Windows XP, sometimes with a proprietary kid-friendly
interface. The world has changed since.

Sean
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Re: [Sugar-devel] All Things Open

[Sean DALY]

Hi Tony,

my impression is that All Things Open is more business-oriented... "in the
enterprise"

We don't have a vision or roadmap yet, which makes that a tight deadline.

Sean

P.S. "If" the conference will be maintained in NC... the new discriminatory
legislation enacted there has created a backlash

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Tony Anderson 
wrote:

> Sean
>
> I received notice of the All Things Open conference in Raleigh in October.
> Speaker deadline is May 6. Do you think we could
> mount a presentation on the 'vision of Sugar'. See
> http://us3.campaign-archive2.com/?u=fa12020840ae564ac627b96ce=ab214fc4ba=80d66756e4
> .
>
> I attended last year. The conference is held within sight of Red Hat's
> headquarters. It we have a renewed vision of Sugar, this would be a good
> locale to present it.
>
> Tony
>
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[Sugar-devel] Fwd: GSoC 2016 Website Redesign

[Sean DALY]

Developer discussion about SL brand identity.

Hopefully the MIT Sloan conclusions will be taken into account

Sean


-- Forwarded message --
From: Dave Crossland 
Date: Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 12:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC 2016 Website Redesign
To: Juan Carlos Murillo 
Cc: sugar-devel 


Hi

On 18 April 2016 at 15:04, Juan Carlos Murillo 
wrote:

>
> In addition to Sugar Labs main webpage, Wiki, Planet, and the Translation
> webpages, which other websites do you think will need to be redesigned?
>

I would prioritize/order them as: homepage, activities.sugarlabs.org, wiki,
lists, planet, translations, bugs

Which Sugar Lab’s logo color is going to be adopted: orange, green or blue?
>

As I understand it - might be wrong - there isn't a single colour; the
brand guidelines specify that a range of colors are used in a consistent
pattern, and the brand identity is in the pattern.

https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Logo

However, I think if there was to be one color, it would be the bright green
ones (to match the bright green of the XOs)

What color schemes would you prefer to use on Sugar Lab’s websites?
>

I think it would be good to use a material design scheme, with a the grey
scheme as primary, and the light green scheme as secondary.


> The current websites have a wide variety of color schemes; a same color
> scheme on all websites may look nicer.
>

I agree


> Do you prefer a particular CMS? WordPress? Drupal? Joomla?
>

I think the existing CMS for each site are fine:

homepage, jeykll (https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs)

activities.sugarlabs.org, mozilla addons

wiki, mediawiki

lists, mailman2

planet, planet

translations, pootle

bugs, trac

-- 
Cheers
Dave

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Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

[Sean DALY]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 1:59 AM, Tony Anderson 
wrote:

> This new capability is intended to eliminate the need for cygwin



No doubt MS likes any initiative against Red Hat. I think they want to
simplify server administration in a mixed-OS environment from a Windows
console (ssh, rsync and the like) which is why default (and apparently
only) permission profile is root.

By the way MS has a long history of distributing a Unix-compatible command
line. They purchased Interix in 1999 which later became Windows Services
for Unix, and there has been support for it until... Windows 10. The funny
part is, last time I checked about 8 years ago, there was GNU software in
the package yet MS did not provide the corresponding source code, in
violation of the license.

My default shell in Cygwin is GNU bash v4.3 and in my day job it's a boon
to inherit Windows drive mappings at the command line.

Sean
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Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

[Sean DALY]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 2:49 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> I think users will still need to install and run an X server to run unix
> GUI programs; but there are several good X servers for windows, so this
> should be easy



it's true that I can run some FLOSS GUI software using an X server on my
Mac (the GIMP for example). This required installing OSX developer tools, a
hoop too far for easy deployment on that platform.

In the past I proposed offering prebuilt Sugar VMs (with language/keyboard
set for example) for Oracle VirtualBox, which has a little-known licensing
advantage: runtime installer distribution for educational purposes.
VirtualBox means a teacher or parent could set Sugar in fullscreen yet
return to their usual environment with a click. The (enormous) downside of
that solution is the massive size of a VM, and maintaining a matrix of
prebuilt VMs would be a lot of thankless work. My idea had been to approach
Oracle about helping with that.

Sean
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Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

[Sean DALY]

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Tony Anderson 
wrote:

> One development that seems to be ignored on these lists is Microsoft's
> announcement that it will support Bash on Windows 10. As I understand it,
> the goal is to be able to run Ubuntu programs on Windows 10 using a
> standard 'short-cut'. If so, it is possible that Sugar can run as a native
> Windows application within months.
>


I've been running bash (and gawk and other GNU tools, and ffmpeg, and
imagemagick, etc) on Windows for ten years now with the awesome cygwin
package. I'm not sure how the MS offer will improve on that. The beta
version has bad security for example (user permissions are root, within a
sandbox). My understanding is that these are commandline tools only, there
is no graphical support and none is planned. I'd like to be wrong.

Sean
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Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

[Sean DALY]

Excellent analysis.

I think Sugar could have an impact in the US if it was extremely easy to
install and configure (or "connect to and use"), and teachers would get
behind it.

Sean


On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 11:22 AM, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net>
wrote:

> Of course, the question is what is our market? I think Sugar has no chance
> to impact the American education market. Chris Doerndorfer presented that
> point very effectively at the Malaysia summit noting that major requests
> for proposals by UNESCO, USAID, and others eliminated proposals of Sugar or
> XOs on technical grounds (e.g. proposal from non-qualifying origanization,
> insufficient capital to make escrow requirements and so on). Rabi
> Karmacharya noted that OLE Nepal could not qualify to bid on Nepal's
> request.
>
> Many schools in the US are adopting a BYD policy. I suspect that an XO
> with Sugar would not qualify as an acceptable device. Obviously, such a
> policy is impossible for community schools in the developing world.
>
> I believe our opportunity is to convince private philanthropic individuals
> and organizations to support specific deployments in specific countries. To
> do this
> we need a reliable source of hardware, a credible support organization
> (e.g. Red Hat, Moodle, ...), a proven track record of success in similar
> situations, as well as open software and content. This needs to be combined
> into a solid story to present to potential sponsors.
>
> I don't think it matters whether we have large numbers of computers
> running Sugar in the US or US private schools. We should, of course, have
> an ability to demonstrate to sponsors what we are offering.
>
> So a G1G1 needs to be positioned as primarily benefiting the Give side.
> Making half of the package deductible is helpful. Offering a Give2 option
> at full deductbility may work. Describing in detail, how the Give1 or 2
> laptops would be used is essential (a point ignored by OLPC).
>
> In the second G1G1, OLPC was introduced to basic business management. The
> manufacturer, not unreasonably. required payment for the laptops on
> delivery (to Amazon). The made all of the available funds illiquid and so
> OLPC was forced to riff many very valuable developers.
>
> Apparently no one at OLPC was familiar with inventory loans or managing
> cash flow.
>
> Crowd-sourcing makes clear that many Americans will put up cash for what
> they consider a worthy cause. This might be a way to mange a G1G1 or G2
> program. Any such program must pay serious attention to financing. For
> example, suppose the minimum build order is $2M. While those 1 laptops
> are in inventory, they tie up the funds. When all of the laptops have been
> paid for and deployed, a new order can be placed. Better would be to order
> 20,000 units at $4M. Then when 10,000 have been deployed and paid for, a
> new order can be placed. However, this means at least $2M will be tied up
> in inventory.
>
> Tony
>
>
>
> On 04/09/2016 10:12 PM, Sean DALY wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 5:57 AM, Dave Crossland <d...@lab6.com> wrote:
>
>> Finding ten ritzy private primary schools in the US where the parents can
>> drop $400 in a hat shouldn't be too hard for a savvy sales person
>
>
> I'd like to think that's so, but it may well be more likely that parents
> would be more impressed with a tablet-based solution, or with spending that
> money on home equipment.
>
> Private schools definitely have more resources and more leeway in IT
> buying, but they also need to fit IT activity into a curriculum.
>
> It's possible a charity/social responsibility oriented approach could
> work, but it's also possible that a school's IT buyer would find XOs a
> tough sell compared to, say the Dell Latitude 13 education offer. And no
> need to pay the salesperson so well - we would need to hire (lots of) staff
> for the sales logistics at the same time.
>
> Models exist where a nonprofit org or foundation controls a business (e.g.
> Mozilla), which might be necessary in this scenario. However OLPC (and by
> extension Sugar in its ecosystem) happens to have an awful image problem.
> What would be the value proposition of our offer over the commercial
> offers, for large scale buyers to take the risk? The charity/solidarity
> aspect? Wouldn't OLPC rather want to manage such a project?
>
> I encourage big-picture thinking, perhaps more brainstorming is in order
>
> Sean
>
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] Action needed on two issues

[Sean DALY]

Hi Dave,

the $2390 sum is for the following marketing/promotion/PR expense:
eReleases CauseWire 10-pack Invoice #011413122

This was authorized by a SLOBs vote in late 2012.

Prior to the pack, I was funding press releases on pay-as-you-go out of my
pocket, and I wasn't able to continue that any more at over $200 a pop.

Sean

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Hi Laura!
>
> Thanks for the spreadsheet - this is great!
>
> On 10 April 2016 at 23:57, Laura Vargas  wrote:
>
>> According to the published numbers (I'm attaching a Spreadsheet with the
>> information published by you) for the last 4 years, ~80% (USD$26,400) of
>> expenses are related to promotional travels/activities of a very reduced
>> group of members.
>>
>
> Who are those members, and where did they go?
>
> What was the $2,390 of promotion in 2012 spent on?
>
> What is inside the "Liabilities, Credit Cards" row of spending that each
> year is around $7-8k?
>
> Why does "Income:Sugar:Donations" near the top and "Donated To [Software
> Freedom] Conservancy" differ?
>
> Cheers
> Dave
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] The future of Sugar on XO-1s

[Sean DALY]

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 5:57 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Finding ten ritzy private primary schools in the US where the parents can
> drop $400 in a hat shouldn't be too hard for a savvy sales person


I'd like to think that's so, but it may well be more likely that parents
would be more impressed with a tablet-based solution, or with spending that
money on home equipment.

Private schools definitely have more resources and more leeway in IT
buying, but they also need to fit IT activity into a curriculum.

It's possible a charity/social responsibility oriented approach could work,
but it's also possible that a school's IT buyer would find XOs a tough sell
compared to, say the Dell Latitude 13 education offer. And no need to pay
the salesperson so well - we would need to hire (lots of) staff for the
sales logistics at the same time.

Models exist where a nonprofit org or foundation controls a business (e.g.
Mozilla), which might be necessary in this scenario. However OLPC (and by
extension Sugar in its ecosystem) happens to have an awful image problem.
What would be the value proposition of our offer over the commercial
offers, for large scale buyers to take the risk? The charity/solidarity
aspect? Wouldn't OLPC rather want to manage such a project?

I encourage big-picture thinking, perhaps more brainstorming is in order

Sean
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing][GSOC] Sugar on Facebook app(Sugarizer)(sugar activities))

[Sean DALY]

I'm an admin of the page, perhaps I can do this Mike
Sean


On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 7:48 PM, samson goddy <samsongo...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
> Sure, let me make you one of the admin of the page to make it easier for
> you. Also i will like to propose that our next Sugar Labs home page to GSOC
> project have a place where people can subscribe. So we can be able to send
> them newsletters every months to remind them how cool is sugar OS. Also so
> we can be able to stay in touch with our new users
> --
> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] Sugar on Facebook
> app(Sugarizer)(sugar activities))
> From: curious...@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 12:18:55 -0500
> CC: sdaly...@gmail.com; market...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> To: samsongo...@hotmail.com
>
>
> Samson,
>
> I didn't realize that was an open issue. That seems like something we can
> solve ourselves. According to their help page:
>
> https://m.facebook.com/help/100168986860974
>
> verification is done by sending a pin code to a cellphone, or by
> submitting documents that they review against public records.
>
> I think I am still one of the moderators of the page and can try to do the
> cellphone method in the next day or so.
>
> Mike
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 8, 2016, at 10:55 AM, samson goddy <samsongo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think that is what i am have been looking for. Mike is it possible for
> you to bring up the topic to the Facebook team about verifying Sugar Labs
> page. I can't really apply for verification because 1, i am not in the U.S
> and two i don't have an iPhone to begin the process.
> --
> From: curious...@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 09:55:02 -0400
> To: sdaly...@gmail.com
> CC: h...@unleashkids.org; sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org;
> lio...@olpc-france.org; tony_ander...@usa.net;
> market...@lists.sugarlabs.org; walter.ben...@gmail.com;
> sanchit.bansal_u...@ashoka.edu.in; vishalvenka...@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] Sugar on Facebook
> app(Sugarizer)(sugar activities))
>
> Interesting thread and timely. I'm headed to SF (from DC) to attend the
> Facebook Developer's Conference. There is a pre-conference workshop on
> Monday for NGOs. I'll keep an eye out for any relevant bits of info.
>
> I will be going to the the OLPC SF meeting tomorrow.
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 8, 2016, at 8:14 AM, Sean DALY <sdaly...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 10:01 AM, Lionel Laské <lio...@olpc-france.org>
> wrote:
>
> In my point of view Facebook is not a platform. But it's probably possible
> to run Sugarizer (or a part of it) into the Facebook context.
>
> BTW I'm agree with Sean, it has sense only if we've got a marketing plan
> to be there.
>
> The first part of the job was to share a vision. I think that recent mails
> on this list tend to show that we've got a beginning of a vision. Let's
> improve it then we could write a marketing plan to determine how to target
> our vision.
> If Facebook is in the marketing plan then we could go inside it.
>
>
> haha Sir Martin Sorrell calls facebook "the world's biggest TV channel
> before YouTube"
>
> I support the vision + roadmap work, a necessary step to do effective
> marketing.
>
> Sean
>
> ___
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> market...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] Sugar on Facebook app(Sugarizer)(sugar activities))

[Sean DALY]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 5:13 PM, samson goddy 
wrote:

> a proposal of targeting more users via the social media (Facebook and
> twitter). And i will submit it this week or next so we will know that to do.



Great! So... what is our target or targets? What is our objective or
objectives? What is our message for each target?

I've had difficulty formulating the SL message these past three years
because I need a vision and roadmap to do so.

To be effective, marketing isn't random. Let's say television air time was
free. And we said Let's do TV ads! I would say the same thing as with
Facebook, or YouTube, or Twitter, or what will come next.

Sean.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] Sugar on Facebook app(Sugarizer)(sugar activities))

[Sean DALY]

Hi Ignacio

are you ...?

* a donor interested in supporting a project to support financially?
* a developer interested in a project to volunteer with?
* a teacher interested in a classroom computer-based learning tool?
* a parent interested in a home setting computer-based learning tool?
* a cool guy interested in fun games?

My point is that the message would likely be different for each target. I'm
sure teachers like games too, but perhaps they also like humor, their cat,
weather reports, and educational technology... so our message should be
about our educational technology.

Sean


On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Ignacio Rodríguez 
wrote:

> As Facebook user, I think that Sugarizer wouldn't have success.
> What I mean, when I look through Facebook "market", I try to find
> games that my friends play, so it can be more ¿cool?.
>
> Probably if we publish Sugarizer it would have 50-200 monthly users.
> I prefer to use sugarizer in it official website, or just sugar..
>
> idk,
> that is what I think
>
>
> Sorry for my bad english :3
>
> Grettings
>
> 2016-04-07 11:47 GMT-03:00, samson goddy :
> > I will be happy to work with you on that.
> >
> > From: sanchit.bansal_u...@ashoka.edu.in
> > Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 16:38:18 +0530
> > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Facebook app(Sugarizer)(sugar
> > activities))
> > To: walter.ben...@gmail.com
> > CC: samsongo...@hotmail.com; h...@unleashkids.org;
> > market...@lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org;
> > lio...@olpc-france.org; tony_ander...@usa.net
> >
> > I can certainly help with directing a lot of traffic to our facebook
> page as
> > well as other social media accounts, I will start right away if
> everyone's
> > willing.
> > I propose to incorporate a social media feed on our website to increase
> the
> > interactivity here.
> > I am also working on the redesigning the website project from GSoC and I
> > would love you guys to give me feedback on this design I have thought of
> for
> > the main website: http://sanchitbansal.xyz/GSoC. This is just initial
> idea,
> > I will update a lot of stuff in coming days.
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 4:33 PM, Walter Bender 
> > wrote:
> > FWIW, there is a FB version of Turtle Blocks [1], but I never followed
> > through to get it "authorized". Justed need to add a little glue to the
> JS
> > code to enable it.
> > -walter
> >
> > [1] https://apps.facebook.com/turtleblocks/
> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 6:08 AM, samson goddy 
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > As a part of sugar vision, i have been doing a lot of research these
> days on
> > how i can make the platform bigger. So thanks to the sugarizer
> team(lionel)
> > no we can have the OS on every device and app market. We have on
> android, I
> > tunes, Amazon, firefox and chrome i guess. But i think it should be on
> > Facebook app to. Where you can be using sugarizer while doing your
> Facebook
> > thingy.  This is a way of getting more users via the social media. I hope
> > that this will go a long way. Also all the JS sugar activity can also be
> in
> > these platform. With over 1.8 billion users on Facebook i know we will be
> > getting a lot of traffics.
> >
> >
> > Samson Goddy
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Walter Bender
> > Sugar Labshttp://www.sugarlabs.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> >
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> >
> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> >
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Per aspera ad astra"
> > Regards
> > Sanchit BansalFirst Year Undergraduate M +91 822940537 |
> > sanchit.bansal_u...@ashoka.edu.in | www.sanchitbansal.xyz
> > CAMPUS Plot No. 2, Rajiv Gandhi Education City, Kundli, NCR
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Ignacio Rodríguez
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [Localization] [SLOBS] [SLOB] meeting reminder

[Sean DALY]

Concerning marketing, In the past I funded nearly everything out of pocket
including big-ticket items like the 100 USB sticks and of course travel but
was unable to continue doing so when I reached $5000 of expenses. I did
request and receive funding from the SLOBs for newswire press releases, but
that forfeit has expired at this point, we would need new funding if we
decide to issue press releases.

I pay the monthly cost of the press page softphone number, although I
haven't tested if it is active for awhile. I would appreciate reimbursement
for that expense, I would need to look up how many years + months that has
been going (cost was low, under $10 a month I think).

Sean



On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 2:27 AM, Walter Bender 
wrote:

> Here are a few of my thoughts regarding both the i18n thread and the
> proposal from Caryl regarding a treasurer  position.
>
> (1) The Trip Advisor grant content has been vetted multiple times: by
> Chris and I when we wrote it; by my colleagues at Trip Advisor who have
> been playing a role in the work; by the SFC and SLOBs before I submitted
> it; by Trip Advisor itself; by SLOBs after the grant was approved; and...
> every time we've spend any of the funds, (a) I've gotten yet another
> preapproval from SLOBs; and (b) had to reaffirm that approval with the SFC.
> Frankly, as the principal investigator (PI) on the grant, I am being
> generous by calling these interactions unwieldy. Regarding the Turtle
> Workshop funds I don't think I should have to be jumping through hoops to
> spend it on Turtle Workshops. Regarding the i18n funds, I trust Chris to
> continue to exercise his good judgment in advancing the interests of our
> community. Let's stop second-guessing him and let him get on with the work.
> We both have a track record of reporting to the community what we have been
> doing. To conclude, I think that the PI should get SLOB (and SFC) approval
> for grants submitted through Sugar Labs, but as long as there is adequate
> reporting, which will enable SLOB and SFC to determine that the funds are
> being allocated appropriately, the PI should have autonomy.
>
> (2) That said, the general funds have not been vetted and I think we need
> SLOB input on spending these funds. We have on occasion granted
> discretionary funds to some of our teams, e.g., the systems team has some
> unilateral ability to spend on the order of a few hundred dollars here and
> there, but I think it is reasonable that they present a proposal for larger
> projects, e.g., refreshing servers, etc. Similarly we gave some limited
> autonomy to the marketing team, although for the most part Sean paid for
> incidentals out of his own pocket and came to SLOB for big ticket items. I
> don't think this system is broken.
>
> (3) We have tried multiple times to fill the treasurer role. Doesn't seem
> to hold anyone's interest for long. Love to see someone take up the role
> again. But in my opinion, the treasurer's role is reporting, not allocation
> of funds.
>
> To be continued tomorrow at the SLOB meeting.
>
> regards.
>
> -walter
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 6:20 PM, Adam Holt  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Lionel Laské 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Just to share some thought before the meeting regarding the l18n. Sure
>>> that it could feed the debate tomorrow :-)
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure that it's super important for Sugar to be available in
>>> multiple languages.
>>> Plus I know the huge works done by all translators (including some guys
>>> from OLPC France) on this, mostly as volunteers (i.e. unpaid).
>>>
>>> As everyone know SugarLabs funds are limited so I think that before
>>> launching a paid mission of translation.
>>>
>>
>> Impact needs to be articulated for sure.  But I'm not sure the above
>> story about very limited translation funds is correct.  In fact the records
>> seem to show the opposite:
>>
>> The TripAdvisor grant specifically allocated "$60,000" for translation,
>> and especially indigenous languages, as it was explained to me by Walter
>> Bender in the summer of 2013, when the initial grant was awarded.  This
>> should come as no surprise given the nature of the donor (TripAdvisor)
>> wanting to honor endangered languages, relating to its global travel
>> business.
>>
>> While it is possible to redirect funds away from their intended purpose
>> (according to SFC, as discussed in February and March) things could also
>> get very complicated very fast if Sugar Labs chooses to go on record
>> defying the intent of a major donor.
>>
>>
>> PS I do not know if the "final" installment ($40,000 of $120,000 total
>> TripAdvisor grant) is forthcoming or not, as was expected to be received in
>> October 2015, but hopefully Walter can clarify.  I am trying to clarify our
>> current balance with SFC, but this takes time apparently.
>>
>> Finally, if worst case the final TripAdvisor installment is not

Re: [Sugar-devel] DESIGN TEAM Assemblage

[Sean DALY]

Hi Ifeanyi Matthew,

There hasn't been much marketing activity lately in the absence of a
roadmap, funds, and developer resources.

In the past the Design team assisted the Marketing team, for example:
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Booth_Banners

in SL marketing, the most important visual aspects are the logo and
typography (VAG Rounded Light) and the colors.

Historically our marketing efforts were oriented to educators and
journalists. Developer recruitment is something else, but if you would like
to work on that, perhaps we could get something happening?

Sean


On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 9:17 PM, James Cameron  wrote:

> No, what you describe sounds like a Marketing Team.
>
> Our Design Team acts in the context of the Sugar software, and
> participation is by replying to threads on sugar-devel@ that have a
> [DESIGN] subject tag.  Since you are on sugar-devel@ you can
> participate already, just wait for a thread that asks.
>
> Previous design team organisation also did not include marketing, see
> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team (last updated 2010).
>
> We have a mailing list for marketing@, see
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:05:22AM +, Ifeanyi Peter wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Design team leader, Mr. Gary has been off for a while and that has led
> to mails
> > not been responded to intending member who are willing to join the
> SugarLabs
> > design team.
> >
> > I would like SugarLabs admins to organize a reassemble the design team to
> > enhance effectiveness?
> >
> > The design team should be let more into designing Icons for SugarLabs,
> because
> > it seems they are not let in more to so these works.
> >
> > The design team should be the "branding managers" for SugarLabs.
> >
> > The design team should also be responsible for presentation designs,
> > info-graphics to attract prospects who would like to join (they say,
> pictures
> > speaks more than words).
> >
> > And also in terms of Advertising, GIF images might also be handled by the
> > design team while the code can be gotten from our Coders so that we can
> have
> > these web adverts around the web on our various blogs to get more
> volunteer for
> > SugarLabs.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Ifeanyi Matthew
> >
>
> > ___
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> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>
> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] Twitter password recovering

[Sean DALY]

Hi Samson, I never used the twitter account and never knew the password
myself
Sean


On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 8:58 PM, samson goddy 
wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
>
> I have been trying to reset the twitter page of the sugarlabs for the past
> 1 month now. I discussed with Ignacio about resetting the password. twitter
> gave me an hint of the email that is associated with the account " Email a
> link to *73**@o.*** so *this look familiar to you sure to mail me
> or Ignacio so we could recover the account instead of creating new one.
>
> Best regards
> Samson Goddy
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Collaboration

[Sean DALY]

Hi Samson, this is a copy/pasted form letter, the tipoff is they mention
company which means they did not bother spending three clicks to find out
about Sugar Labs.

If their event is legit, we can always ask them if they will assist a
nonprofit like us in attending, with travel, room  board :-)

Sean


On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 9:40 AM, samson goddy samsongo...@hotmail.com
wrote:

 Hello Team,

 As one of the administrators of the SugarLabs Facebook page, i was to
 check on the page today then i got a message from a team in India wanting
 to collaborate with Sugar Labs. here is the discussion between me and the
 team.

 

 *I am Bhavna Nagpal a student of IIIT-Delhi which is the third best
 engineering college in New Delhi and one of best in India for Computer
 Science and Electronics Engineering. Its expansion was recently inaugurated
 by the Chief Minister of New Delhi Mr Arvind Kejriwal and Deputy CM Manish
 Sisodia. I am writing to you as the Co-organizer of Esya and we would like
 to associate with Sugar Labs.   Esya'15 comes forth with the
 opportunity for your company to interact with an assemblage of budding
 engineers, designers, photographers, developers and entrepreneurs ! It will
 provide Sugar Labs an excellent opportunity to establish their brand among
 the youth. Unique opportunities will be available through various forms of
 brand showcasing, on line and off line to promote your name and enhance its
 brand visibility among the enthusiastic audience actively throughout the
 months/days leading to Esya’15, and also a chance to contribute to your
 corporate social activities as we help underprivileged students in
 education through Esya'15. An association with Sugar Labs would go a long
 way in helping us achieve our dream of making Esya one of the biggest and
 prestigious technical festivals of India. We have got creative in
 contacting you, we would be obliged if these efforts turn out to be
 fruitful for us! We would be obliged if we could set up a meeting on
 call/in-person to follow up on the same, please  **My Email ID :
 bhavna13...@iiitd.ac.in bhavna13...@iiitd.ac.in  My contact no :
 +91-9810093528 %2B91-9810093528 Hopefully I would hear back from you soon*



 


 *Hello We'd be really grateful if we could be connected to someone in
 Marketing department. If we are able to partner, we certainly hope it'll be
 a fruitful association for both the parties. Thanks and Regards, Bhavna
 Nagpal +91-9810093528 %2B91-9810093528 bhavna13...@iiitd.ac.in
 bhavna13...@iiitd.ac.in*Here is my reply
 Thanks for the interest, Bhavna Nagpal. i will forward your message to the
 right person

 the question is, who is responsible for this message

 Samson Goddy


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Collaboration

[Sean DALY]

in a couple of days ok


On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 10:59 PM, Gonzalo Odiard godi...@sugarlabs.org
wrote:

 Sean,
 Could you reply?

 On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 5:53 PM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Samson, this is a copy/pasted form letter, the tipoff is they mention
 company which means they did not bother spending three clicks to find out
 about Sugar Labs.

 If their event is legit, we can always ask them if they will assist a
 nonprofit like us in attending, with travel, room  board :-)

 Sean


 On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 9:40 AM, samson goddy samsongo...@hotmail.com
 wrote:

 Hello Team,

 As one of the administrators of the SugarLabs Facebook page, i was to
 check on the page today then i got a message from a team in India wanting
 to collaborate with Sugar Labs. here is the discussion between me and the
 team.

 

 *I am Bhavna Nagpal a student of IIIT-Delhi which is the third best
 engineering college in New Delhi and one of best in India for Computer
 Science and Electronics Engineering. Its expansion was recently inaugurated
 by the Chief Minister of New Delhi Mr Arvind Kejriwal and Deputy CM Manish
 Sisodia. I am writing to you as the Co-organizer of Esya and we would like
 to associate with Sugar Labs.   Esya'15 comes forth with the
 opportunity for your company to interact with an assemblage of budding
 engineers, designers, photographers, developers and entrepreneurs ! It will
 provide Sugar Labs an excellent opportunity to establish their brand among
 the youth. Unique opportunities will be available through various forms of
 brand showcasing, on line and off line to promote your name and enhance its
 brand visibility among the enthusiastic audience actively throughout the
 months/days leading to Esya’15, and also a chance to contribute to your
 corporate social activities as we help underprivileged students in
 education through Esya'15. An association with Sugar Labs would go a long
 way in helping us achieve our dream of making Esya one of the biggest and
 prestigious technical festivals of India. We have got creative in
 contacting you, we would be obliged if these efforts turn out to be
 fruitful for us! We would be obliged if we could set up a meeting on
 call/in-person to follow up on the same, please  **My Email ID :
 bhavna13...@iiitd.ac.in bhavna13...@iiitd.ac.in  My contact no :
 +91-9810093528 %2B91-9810093528 Hopefully I would hear back from you 
 soon*



 


 *Hello We'd be really grateful if we could be connected to someone in
 Marketing department. If we are able to partner, we certainly hope it'll be
 a fruitful association for both the parties. Thanks and Regards, Bhavna
 Nagpal +91-9810093528 %2B91-9810093528 bhavna13...@iiitd.ac.in
 bhavna13...@iiitd.ac.in*Here is my reply
 Thanks for the interest, Bhavna Nagpal. i will forward your message to
 the right person

 the question is, who is responsible for this message

 Samson Goddy





 --
 Gonzalo Odiard

 SugarLabs - Software [for | by] children learning

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [Marketing] New Fedora Spins Site

[Sean DALY]

Thanks Peter, I was watching that too.

If I understand correctly switching/changing the sections or adding an
Activity is beyond tweaks? while text changes are tweaks.

I'm quite happy with it, even though there are lots of changes we suggested
which aren't in.

I feel the only tweak still to make is to add under the Journal:
The Journal provides an interface into a datastore of everything you've
created in Sugar. Bookmarking and commenting tools integrate with the
Journal to allow parents and teachers to review a child's learning progress.

The Journal is central to the Sugar experience and we rightly call it out
in the Intro, but I feel the description under it is too brief.

Thanks again for making all this happen.

Sean



On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 3:40 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
wrote:

 
  _Please_consolidate_the_changes_before_send_to_Peter_.
 
  Thanks, Gonzalo, is good advice.
 
 
  I've just spent two hours manually providing updates. It will be live
  on staging shortly.
 
  Please provide any further updates against that.

 Right the new updated content is live on staging. Please shift+reload
 to ensure you have the latest revision. Section titles updated etc.

 http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/

 Please provide updates against that in a email without html
 formatting. Pure text in an email.

 We have basically today to get the last tweaks in and then it's done.

 Thanks,
 Peter
 ___
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 i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [Marketing] New Fedora Spins Site

[Sean DALY]

Many thanks Iain

Fine with me to delete Multimedia section. I feel the existing intro plus
the Activities descriptions will fulfill the role of encouraging the
visitor to download and try SoaS. Walter, Sam, OK with you?

Sean


On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Iain Brown Douglas 
i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote:

 Thanks, Sean, for the careful proof reading.

 Fair copy attached.

 I originally included the section Multimedia, as it is the set of
 Activities in http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/
 but not in the Walter/Sam contribution.

 I think it is the weakest section. Chat jars a bit on the page, as
 Chat is used in the Spins page template to refer to IRC.

 My memory is that Jukebox is not part of the core set (due to non-free
 components?).

 Perhaps the section Multimedia as it stands should be deleted.

 Regards,

 Iain


 On Mon, 2015-05-18 at 09:29 +0200, Sean DALY wrote:
  thanks Iain looks good
 
  some typos:
  Wwork - Work
 
  FotoToon - OK is singular not plural
  speech and though - speech and thought
  Paint provides to tools - Paint provides tools
  Make Sugar activities - Make Sugar Activities / edit existing
  activities - edit existing Activities / Browse activity - Browse
  Activity (((Activities always init-capitalized in Sugar context when
  describing applications)))
 
 
  Also Pippy  Develop should be in a Getting Technical section not
  regrouped under Learning by doing please
 
 
  Tweaks:
  * Get Books. Download electronic books from all over the web. Explore
  with ease the
classics and modern books from the Internet Archive, Feedbooks, etc.
 
 
  Music - I think this refers to the Jukebox Activity, should be:
 
  * Jukebox. Media player to play different kinds of audio and video
  files.
 
  However, I am not sure if this Activity is in the latest SoaS or not?
 
 
  * Record is the basic rich-media capture Activity. It lets you capture
  still images, video, and/or audio. (((remove for the laptop - we
  can't assume SoaS will be running on a laptop)))
 
 
  Finally, an HTML issue: the left/right curly quote marks (cf. office
  desktop) which probably came in from copy/pasted text should either
  be replacd with simple double parentheses ( quot;) or the HTML
  entities ldquo; and rdquo;
 
 
  thanks
 
  Sean
 
 
 
 
  On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Iain Brown Douglas
  i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote:
  On Sun, 2015-05-17 at 15:14 +0200, Sean DALY wrote:
   Peter - Walter's edits were for the Activities descriptions,
  mine were
   for the introduction, no reconciliation necessary
  
  
   Sean
  
  
  
   On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 12:38 PM, Peter Robinson
   pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
   Walter sent some edits, I believe most of those have
  gone in,
   we need
   to update titles still I believe.
  
   This is what we currently have, the Activities list
  and layout
   are now set.
  
   http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/
  
   We can tweak the text but I need to have the edits
   co-ordinated,
 
  Hi all,
 
  The attached text file starts from
  http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/, taken during
  Sunday,
  with contributions from Sean  Walter/Sam added.
 
  There is still some work to do, additions, subtractions or
  comments
  please!
 
  Regards,
 
  Iain
 
I
   don't have time to to do that so please liaise with
  Walter to
   come up
   with the final edits so I can submit them early next
  week as a
   single
   final edit.
  
   Peter
  
  
  
   On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Sean DALY
   sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:
Peter - are the intro edits I sent going in?
thanks
Sean
   
   
On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Peter Robinson
   pbrobin...@gmail.com
wrote:
   
It's already in process
   
On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Sam P.
   sam.parkins...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Peter,

 I think Walter send out a good copy [1] with
  headers -
   maybe we could
 use
 those headers?

 Thanks,
 Sam

 [1]
  
 
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [Marketing] New Fedora Spins Site

[Sean DALY]

Gonzalo - Iain had already consolidated all changes but Peter doesn't want
to deal with a text file.
Sean


On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Gonzalo Odiard godi...@sugarlabs.org
wrote:

 Iain, Sean, Sam,

 _Please_consolidate_the_changes_before_send_to_Peter_.

 Peter,
 when need this be finished?

 Gonzalo


 On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 3:16 PM, Iain Brown Douglas
 i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote:
  On Tue, 2015-05-19 at 15:00 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
Hi Peter,
   
On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 9:01 PM Peter Robinson 
 pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
   
On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 5:58 AM, Iain Brown Douglas
i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote:
 Thanks, Sean, for the careful proof reading.

 Fair copy attached.

 I originally included the section Multimedia, as it is the
 set of
 Activities in http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/
 but not in the Walter/Sam contribution.

 I think it is the weakest section. Chat jars a bit on the
 page, as
 Chat is used in the Spins page template to refer to IRC.

 My memory is that Jukebox is not part of the core set (due to
 non-free
 components?).
   
You're memory is wrong! It uses gstreamer and there a number of
 free
codecs that come as standard.
   Thanks, Peter, for the correction.
  
   So as a heading, ==Multimedia== containing Jukebox, Record,
 Imageviewer
   you feel should remain?
 
  I really don't care what it's called but those three are staying,
  right where they are. A lot of people want to view photos, listen to
  music etc. As to what it's called, I'm not particularly bothered.
 
   Maybe you could download SoaS 22 and
actually test it and see what's there!
   
 Perhaps the section Multimedia as it stands should be deleted.
   
Not going to happen. This isn't time for bikeshedding, it's time
 for
tweaking the content as it stands.
   
   
Talking about the headers is not bikeshedding.  The headers on
 the page are
not very relevant to an education focused desktop environment -
 they are
headers for a traditional dekstop environment.
  
   I was talking about Multimedia as it stands should be deleted so I
   have no idea why you're talking about the header names. I have
 stated
   before the header names need to be updated. I'm still awaiting what
   they should be updated to.
  
   ... awaiting?
  
   Understanding and creating content
   Learning by doing
   Getting technical
   Exploring the wider world
   Multimedia
   Reflection on what you've learned
  
   is from earlier contributions and both my attachments to this thread.
 
  As I've said to Sean before, I don't have the time to reconcile
  opinions coming in from a number of locations.
  Peter, that is why I have tried to help by drawing the contributions
  onto one attachment, are you receiving your email without attachments?

 No, I drop all attachments from mailing lists unless they are text
 patches, they're generally just spam or viruses.

 In plain text inline emails please.

 I want ONE update. I don't have the time to merge them. I've already
 wasted a lot of time I really don't have on this!




 --
 Gonzalo Odiard

 SugarLabs - Software for children learning

 ___
 IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
 i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [Marketing] New Fedora Spins Site

[Sean DALY]

Peter - here is Iain's document:

http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/marketing/attachments/20150519/bdaf00ca/attachment.html

Sean


On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 7:57 PM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:

 Gonzalo - Iain had already consolidated all changes but Peter doesn't want
 to deal with a text file.
 Sean


 On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Gonzalo Odiard godi...@sugarlabs.org
 wrote:

 Iain, Sean, Sam,

 _Please_consolidate_the_changes_before_send_to_Peter_.

 Peter,
 when need this be finished?

 Gonzalo


 On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 3:16 PM, Iain Brown Douglas
 i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote:
  On Tue, 2015-05-19 at 15:00 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
Hi Peter,
   
On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 9:01 PM Peter Robinson 
 pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
   
On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 5:58 AM, Iain Brown Douglas
i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote:
 Thanks, Sean, for the careful proof reading.

 Fair copy attached.

 I originally included the section Multimedia, as it is the
 set of
 Activities in http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/
 but not in the Walter/Sam contribution.

 I think it is the weakest section. Chat jars a bit on the
 page, as
 Chat is used in the Spins page template to refer to IRC.

 My memory is that Jukebox is not part of the core set (due to
 non-free
 components?).
   
You're memory is wrong! It uses gstreamer and there a number of
 free
codecs that come as standard.
   Thanks, Peter, for the correction.
  
   So as a heading, ==Multimedia== containing Jukebox, Record,
 Imageviewer
   you feel should remain?
 
  I really don't care what it's called but those three are staying,
  right where they are. A lot of people want to view photos, listen to
  music etc. As to what it's called, I'm not particularly bothered.
 
   Maybe you could download SoaS 22 and
actually test it and see what's there!
   
 Perhaps the section Multimedia as it stands should be deleted.
   
Not going to happen. This isn't time for bikeshedding, it's
 time for
tweaking the content as it stands.
   
   
Talking about the headers is not bikeshedding.  The headers on
 the page are
not very relevant to an education focused desktop environment -
 they are
headers for a traditional dekstop environment.
  
   I was talking about Multimedia as it stands should be deleted so
 I
   have no idea why you're talking about the header names. I have
 stated
   before the header names need to be updated. I'm still awaiting what
   they should be updated to.
  
   ... awaiting?
  
   Understanding and creating content
   Learning by doing
   Getting technical
   Exploring the wider world
   Multimedia
   Reflection on what you've learned
  
   is from earlier contributions and both my attachments to this
 thread.
 
  As I've said to Sean before, I don't have the time to reconcile
  opinions coming in from a number of locations.
  Peter, that is why I have tried to help by drawing the contributions
  onto one attachment, are you receiving your email without attachments?

 No, I drop all attachments from mailing lists unless they are text
 patches, they're generally just spam or viruses.

 In plain text inline emails please.

 I want ONE update. I don't have the time to merge them. I've already
 wasted a lot of time I really don't have on this!




 --
 Gonzalo Odiard

 SugarLabs - Software for children learning

 ___
 IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
 i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep



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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [Marketing] New Fedora Spins Site

[Sean DALY]

thanks Iain looks good

some typos:
Wwork - Work
FotoToon - OK is singular not plural
speech and though - speech and thought
Paint provides to tools - Paint provides tools
Make Sugar activities - Make Sugar Activities / edit existing activities
- edit existing Activities / Browse activity - Browse Activity
(((Activities always init-capitalized in Sugar context when describing
applications)))

Also Pippy  Develop should be in a Getting Technical section not
regrouped under Learning by doing please

Tweaks:
* Get Books. Download electronic books from all over the web. Explore with
ease the
  classics and modern books from the Internet Archive, Feedbooks, etc.

Music - I think this refers to the Jukebox Activity, should be:
* Jukebox. Media player to play different kinds of audio and video files.
However, I am not sure if this Activity is in the latest SoaS or not?

* Record is the basic rich-media capture Activity. It lets you capture
still images, video, and/or audio. (((remove for the laptop - we can't
assume SoaS will be running on a laptop)))

Finally, an HTML issue: the left/right curly quote marks (cf. office
desktop) which probably came in from copy/pasted text should either be
replacd with simple double parentheses ( quot;) or the HTML entities
ldquo; and rdquo;

thanks
Sean


On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Iain Brown Douglas 
i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote:

 On Sun, 2015-05-17 at 15:14 +0200, Sean DALY wrote:
  Peter - Walter's edits were for the Activities descriptions, mine were
  for the introduction, no reconciliation necessary
 
 
  Sean
 
 
 
  On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 12:38 PM, Peter Robinson
  pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
  Walter sent some edits, I believe most of those have gone in,
  we need
  to update titles still I believe.
 
  This is what we currently have, the Activities list and layout
  are now set.
 
  http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/
 
  We can tweak the text but I need to have the edits
  co-ordinated,

 Hi all,

 The attached text file starts from
 http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/, taken during Sunday,
 with contributions from Sean  Walter/Sam added.

 There is still some work to do, additions, subtractions or comments
 please!

 Regards,

 Iain

   I
  don't have time to to do that so please liaise with Walter to
  come up
  with the final edits so I can submit them early next week as a
  single
  final edit.
 
  Peter
 
 
 
  On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Sean DALY
  sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:
   Peter - are the intro edits I sent going in?
   thanks
   Sean
  
  
   On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Peter Robinson
  pbrobin...@gmail.com
   wrote:
  
   It's already in process
  
   On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Sam P.
  sam.parkins...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Peter,
   
I think Walter send out a good copy [1] with headers -
  maybe we could
use
those headers?
   
Thanks,
Sam
   
[1]
 
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2015-May/050190.html
   
On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:09 PM Peter Robinson
  pbrobin...@gmail.com
wrote:
   
On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 6:15 AM, Sam Parkinson
sam.parkins...@gmail.com
wrote:
 Hi Peter,

 Peter Robinson wrote:
 Hi Sam, Gonzalo et el,

 I've worked with the Fedora web team to update it
  some based
 partially
 on Sam's details below.

 Details are here:
 http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/

 Let me know of any feedback, I personally think it
  looks really fab!

 Yeah, it does.

 Is there a way to have different headers?  Some of the
  headings (esp.
 Education) are not aappropriate for Sugar.
   
Yes, provide me details in concise details and we'll
  review them and
get them integrated. I knew it wasn't perfect but we
  needed to get the
majority of the bits in place.
   
Peter
   ___
   IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
   i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
   http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
  
  
 
 
 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [Marketing] New Fedora Spins Site

[Sean DALY]

Peter - Walter's edits were for the Activities descriptions, mine were for
the introduction, no reconciliation necessary

Sean


On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 12:38 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Walter sent some edits, I believe most of those have gone in, we need
 to update titles still I believe.

 This is what we currently have, the Activities list and layout are now set.

 http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/

 We can tweak the text but I need to have the edits co-ordinated, I
 don't have time to to do that so please liaise with Walter to come up
 with the final edits so I can submit them early next week as a single
 final edit.

 Peter



 On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:
  Peter - are the intro edits I sent going in?
  thanks
  Sean
 
 
  On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  It's already in process
 
  On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Sam P. sam.parkins...@gmail.com
 wrote:
   Hi Peter,
  
   I think Walter send out a good copy [1] with headers - maybe we could
   use
   those headers?
  
   Thanks,
   Sam
  
   [1]
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2015-May/050190.html
  
   On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:09 PM Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
   wrote:
  
   On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 6:15 AM, Sam Parkinson
   sam.parkins...@gmail.com
   wrote:
Hi Peter,
   
Peter Robinson wrote:
Hi Sam, Gonzalo et el,
   
I've worked with the Fedora web team to update it some based
partially
on Sam's details below.
   
Details are here:
http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/
   
Let me know of any feedback, I personally think it looks really
 fab!
   
Yeah, it does.
   
Is there a way to have different headers?  Some of the headings
 (esp.
Education) are not aappropriate for Sugar.
  
   Yes, provide me details in concise details and we'll review them and
   get them integrated. I knew it wasn't perfect but we needed to get
 the
   majority of the bits in place.
  
   Peter
  ___
  IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
  i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
  http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
 
 

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [Marketing] New Fedora Spins Site

[Sean DALY]

Peter - are the intro edits I sent going in?
thanks
Sean


On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
wrote:

 It's already in process

 On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Sam P. sam.parkins...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi Peter,
 
  I think Walter send out a good copy [1] with headers - maybe we could use
  those headers?
 
  Thanks,
  Sam
 
  [1]  http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2015-May/050190.html
 
  On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:09 PM Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 6:15 AM, Sam Parkinson 
 sam.parkins...@gmail.com
  wrote:
   Hi Peter,
  
   Peter Robinson wrote:
   Hi Sam, Gonzalo et el,
  
   I've worked with the Fedora web team to update it some based
 partially
   on Sam's details below.
  
   Details are here:
   http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/
  
   Let me know of any feedback, I personally think it looks really fab!
  
   Yeah, it does.
  
   Is there a way to have different headers?  Some of the headings (esp.
   Education) are not aappropriate for Sugar.
 
  Yes, provide me details in concise details and we'll review them and
  get them integrated. I knew it wasn't perfect but we needed to get the
  majority of the bits in place.
 
  Peter
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 i...@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

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Re: [Sugar-devel] f22-spins page is being written and needs suggestions

[Sean DALY]

Hi Tom, Gonzalo had mentioned this, I have a rewrite of the introduction in
the works and Sam's Activity texts are good. The main issue is explaining
that SOAS Desktop is not a desktop (!)

Peter is coordinating on the Fedora side.
Sean


On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 3:37 PM, Thomas Gilliard satelli...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Please Help
 f22 get fedora spins page is being written and needs suggestions

 robyduck on #fedora-qa  needs sugar writeup of spins page on fedora for
 f22:
 he has thi text:
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2015-May/017396.html

 I sent him 2 screenshots yesterday
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Sugar-Home_.png
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Screenshot_of_Mesh_1.png

 http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/   is the proposed format
 he needs it done by saturday 

 satellit

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Re: [Sugar-devel] f22-spins page is being written and needs suggestions

[Sean DALY]

ah that's great Peter we just need these small changes then:

* add this phrase to the start of the Sugar automatically saves paragraph:
Sugar sets aside the traditional “office-desktop” metaphor, presenting a
child-friendly simple graphical environment.

* replace Sugar automatically saves your progress with Sugar
automatically saves the child's progress

* add at the end of that graf Applications in Sugar are known as
Activities, some of which are described below.

* Inverse the second and third grafs - describe Sugar first, then the
specific advantages of the Soas spin.

many thanks
Sean

On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
wrote:

 See the post I just sent to the list less than a hour ago :-)

 Thanks Sean,

 Peter

 On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi Tom, Gonzalo had mentioned this, I have a rewrite of the introduction
 in
  the works and Sam's Activity texts are good. The main issue is explaining
  that SOAS Desktop is not a desktop (!)
 
  Peter is coordinating on the Fedora side.
  Sean
 
 
  On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 3:37 PM, Thomas Gilliard satelli...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  Please Help
  f22 get fedora spins page is being written and needs suggestions
 
  robyduck on #fedora-qa  needs sugar writeup of spins page on fedora for
  f22:
  he has thi text:
  http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2015-May/017396.html
 
  I sent him 2 screenshots yesterday
  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Sugar-Home_.png
  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Screenshot_of_Mesh_1.png
 
  http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/   is the proposed format
  he needs it done by saturday 
 
  satellit
 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Community XO software builds

[Sean DALY]

On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Samuel Greenfeld sam...@greenfeld.org
wrote:

 You might laugh but when the OLPC Association was actively answering bids
 for laptops, this dance happened all the time.



Also known as sales calls, never a strong point with FLOSS projects, and
one of the reasons so many Intel Classmates were deployed.

Sean.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Another little computer kickstarter

[Sean DALY]

The onboard composite video out is an interesting approach... can plug into
old secondhand TVs with poor resolution, just like my first computer in
1983. Of course, when you add everything that's missing, you hit 10x the
price, as you've seen before. And fragile cables/adapters all over the
place.

They are quite vague about their distro, and are organizing incentives for
kernel hackers, which likely means compatibility and performance issues
need work.

Sean


On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Gonzalo Odiard godi...@sugarlabs.org
wrote:


 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-worlds-first-9-computer

 Looks like all the software and hardware is open...

 --
 Gonzalo Odiard

 SugarLabs - Software for children learning

 ___
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 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Community XO software builds

[Sean DALY]

Hi Tony

not sure if this is helpful, but the Python script youtube-dl (
http://rg3.github.io/youtube-dl/) is very useful for downloading vids from
YouTube (curent/playlist/batch), and offers options such as --age-limit,
--max-filesize, --rate-limit, --max-quality, and in particular --format
worstvideo, which could eliminate a subsequent transcoding step by
downloading the minimal quality available.

Sean


On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 8:41 AM, Tony Anderson tony_ander...@usa.net wrote:

 It would be helpful to have more specifics.

 The problem with videos on the XO-1 is the speed of the processor and the
 bit-rate of the videos. As with all Linux distributions, the codecs are
 available for installation by the user. The process for doing this for the
 XO has been documented many times on these lists. Installation of the
 codecs does not require a local repository or an os-builder. It can be done
 with a simple bash script (and the necessary files).

 The only solution I can see is to reprocess videos to reduce the bit-rate.
 It would be valuable if someone would experiment with videos from YouTube
 to determine a realistic processing capability for the XO (should differ by
 model), and to publish the conversion parameters to produce videos within
 those limits (e.g for ffmpeg).

 Naturally, this solution does not work for casual browsing of YouTube.
 However, I believe our primary goal to provide better educational
 opporunities on the other side of the digital divide - where this routine
 access to the internet is not available.  This means the deployment has a
 fixed set of available videos which could be reprocessed to play smoothly.

 I am not aware of any reported problems with Browse, which as the gateway
 to the schoolserver is the most-used activity in the deployments which I
 support. Naturally, the users at these deployments do not have experience
 with the internet or with other browsers. I can't imagine anyone at these
 deployments being aware of the switch to Webkit, for example. They accept
 that the home page consists of a set of non-working links to the internet
 and that the only relevant one for them is the 'local schoolserver'. (an
 obvious challenge for web confusion is to design a more interesting and
 useful page).

 OLE Nepal continues to use Firefox for E-Paath based on the inability of
 Browse with Gnash to provide adequate support for Flash activities. The
 Webkit version of Browse supports the E-Paath activities but there is no
 compelling advantage to change from Firefox. So, the deployments which are
 unhappy with Browse could install Firefox.

 Tony


 On 05/07/2015 05:22 AM, sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

 They all seem to want a better browser and better codec support to
 view various+sundry videos, within Sugar ideally, but if that's not
 possible then within Gnome.  One group per week asks me for the
 above, above all else (often more than one deployment/group per
 week).


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Testing alias

[Sean DALY]

+1 to Samson who seeks a more active presence for SL on social media.

Sean.



On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Gonzalo Odiard godi...@sugarlabs.org
wrote:

 +1 To Samson.

 I remember we explicitly proposed add one more member to the committee,
 and Walter proposed try include a young hacker.

 Gonzalo

 On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Adam Holt h...@laptop.org wrote:

 +1 to Samson Goddy even if the Nigerian govt did not allow me to meet him
 during my less than 48hrs in country February (due to a more famous
 Goodluck/Badluck election ;)

 The following page says the Membership and Elections Committee can be
 emailed via elections at sugarlabs.org :
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Governance/Membership

 Is this still true?

 On May 6, 2015 12:17 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Sebastian Silva 
 sebast...@fuentelibre.org wrote:
 
  Hi Walter, Membership Committee is not a Team. It is a committee, and
 it needs vetting by SLOBs according to the Governance page. Neither you or
 I have the authority to accept samsongoddy, as I read it.
 
 
 
 
 
  I am not sure what passage you are referring to, but I can assure you
 that it was never the intention of the oversight committee to micro-manage.
 In any case, I'll ask the committee, CC'd here, to vote on Samson's
 membership to the membership committee and we can perhaps discuss how to
 get us out of the micromanagement business at the June meeting.
 
  SLOB members, please let me know your vote re allowing Samson to join
 the membership committee. For those of you who don't know Samson, he is an
 active member of the community who has contributed some activities, e.g.,
 [1] organized the Igbo translation team, and contributes often to the SL
 Facebook page. He was also a participant in Google Code-in 2014.
 
  regards.
 
  -walter
 
  [1] http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4758
 
 
 
 
  Regards,
  Sebastian
 
 
 
  On 06/05/15 09:13, Walter Bender wrote:
 
  I did not realize that all volunteers on the teams need vetting by
 SLOB.  If so it is a bad precident.
 
  On May 6, 2015 10:05 AM, Sebastian Silva sebast...@fuentelibre.org
 wrote:
 
 
  On 06/05/15 03:37, Samson Goddy wrote:
 
  The reason why i was able to access the list was because Walter
 made one of the committee members. About spykidacu...@outlook.com, is
 a volunteer in Sugar Labs and also his in my Sugar Labs team in Nigeria,
 which Walter know of.
 
  1. Sugar Labs is _not_ Walter. Make sure the engage the rest of
 Sugar Labs. Nice to meet you. I was not aware of any other active members
 appointed by SLOBs. (And I did ask). Was your appointment announced
 sometime publicly?
 
  I don't understand why you have to remove me in the membership
 committee, that i don't understand. Is there any way i shouldn't be in the
 membership committee?
 
 
  2. Sure. We have a process which is in the Governance page. I
 volunteered to the committee because there had been 2 years without
 elections and never have there been a survey to keep the membership list
 current. These are the main responsibilities of the Election and Membership
 committee. We'd be glad to have you. In short, do this: - Read the
 governance / membership committee pages - Write to SLOBS requesting to
 be a member - Wait for a vote For us (Caryl and me), it took almost 2
 months to be confirmed, official member of election committee. However, in
 that opportunity, SLOBS voted that they would solicit help from young
 members so maybe they will be more expedite for you. Thanks and good luck!
 Sebastian
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  --
  I+D SomosAzucar.Org
  icarito #somosazucar en Freenode IRC
  Nobody liberates anybody, nobody is released only humans are
 released into communion. - P. Freire
 
 
  ___
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 lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
 
 
 
 
  --
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  icarito #somosazucar en Freenode IRC
  Nobody liberates anybody, nobody is released only humans are released
 into communion. - P. Freire
 
 
 
 
  --
  Walter Bender
  Sugar Labshttp://www.sugarlabs.org
 
 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] New try on a better sugarlabs site

[Sean DALY]

Dan - two years ago we arrived at 3 million by estimating 2.6 million XO
laptops delivered, Sugar on Intel Classmates in Argentina (between 50K and
100K of the approximately 1.5 million locally assembled from 2011 - the
others had been running Windows and may have been reconditioned to
GNU/Linux), and over half a million downloads of Sugar (mostly Sugar on a
Stick) from 2009.

Today, that number is most likely smaller, since many XOs have arrived at
the end of their life and not been replaced and the laptop/netbook
children's education market has shrunk due to the arrival of tablets. I'm
not sure how much smaller, clearly XO usage estimates will be the key
figure.

There have been 11 million downloads of Sugar Activities since 2009.

Sean.



On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:35 AM, Dan Tenason dan.tena...@mail.ru wrote:

 Is there any proof that sugar is used everyday by nearly 3 million
 children at stated on the website? My research from 2 countries which have
 purchased over 100,000 laptops has indicated that due to non-deliver,
 breakage, and disuse, the term 'used daily by 3 million children' is
 overstating use by an order of magnitude.

 Optimism can be valuable. Deceit, even if you mean well, is not
 appropriate when dealing with some of the worlds most needy populations.

 Dan


 Friday, April 10, 2015 5:49 PM -03:00 from Gonzalo Odiard 
 godi...@sugarlabs.org:

   Today in #sugar, user anindya shared a new proposal to improve
 http://sugarlabs.org/ site (the proposal is
 anindya.github.io/www-sugarlabs)

 This is the third proposal from a volunteer in the last months.

 But in the different proposals, developers worked with the content
 available,
 then we have a new design, but the result is the same. And we,
 the developers usually are not good graphic designers.

 As discussed before we need:
 * Something simple and fast.
 * With a clear message.
 * With a professional design.
 * With links to places where the user can download easy ways to use Sugar
 (VM if the user don't use Linux)
 * A place to point developers to the right places.

 I know Walter contributed to the content, but I am sure he is not going to
 get angry,
 if I say he is not a marketing guy. (Me neither, of course)

 Sean said we need images and he requested that in the past without success.
 Maybe we can try again?

 We still need a graphic designer (someone in IAEP available?)

 It's possible work in the sugarlabs.org as a project, with the marketing
 guys,
 the developers and the designers together? I sent this mail to sugar-devel,
 IAEP and marketing lists. We can follow where is better.

 --
 Gonzalo Odiard

 SugarLabs - Software for children learning
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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC projects

[Sean DALY]

Yes, of course, which is why my idea was to get assistance. To be clear,
I'm in favor of whatever solution could ease installation. Choosing a
keyboard layout from scratch can be quite tricky for the uninitiated, the
Virtualbox list is long with many variants (
https://straymarcs.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/8.-select-keyboard.png)
although an autodetect button is available. If the teacher or journalist
has to configure language and keyboard a second time when booting the VM as
you mention, that qualifies as jumping through hoops. My goal was to work
with Oracle on a bundled installer+VM executable (which requires a matrix
by host OS in any case) to make the install as seamless as possible. I cite
Firefox because they propose a pancake button installer by probing the
website client (or analyzing the user agent, or whatever they do), with the
full matrix only 1 click away.

Sean


On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 2:06 AM, Gonzalo Odiard godi...@sugarlabs.org
wrote:

 We can ask language and keyboard in the first boot as we do with age and
 gender.
 I think create and maintain a complete matrix of VMs will be more
 difficult.

 Gonzalo

 On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:39 PM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:

 We need to do everything possible to reduce Sugar's installation and
 unfamiliarity barriers. Not everyone speaks English and can find and
 configure the Sugar control panel on their first encounter with Sugar. A
 keyboard mismatched with what appears on the screen merely gives the
 impression it doesn't work right. VM hosts could have a number of different
 keyboards - for example I have a Macbook with French locale Azerty layout
  (flipped numbers row, common accents) and a Dell education netbook with
 Belgium locale keyboard. Look at the Firefox Systems  Languages download
 matrix (https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all/), for a Sugar VM with
 bundled installer an interested teacher or journalist would just need to
 choose the appropriate download.

 I feel the huge sizes of these images would be more of a problem, but not
 much we can do there.

 Sean


 On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 9:35 PM, Gonzalo Odiard godi...@sugarlabs.org
 wrote:

  My idea at the time was to approach Oracle for corporate sponsorship
  of Virtualbox images, in particular hosting a workflow to automate
  prebuilt images by host language/keyboard, however some community
  members were aghast at the idea.

 Is still needed have a vm by host language/keyboard?
 Or we can ask to the user using the same code from the Sugar control
 panel?

 Gonzalo



 On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 5:18 PM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 06:26:34PM +0100, Sean DALY wrote:
  My idea at the time was to approach Oracle for corporate sponsorship
  of Virtualbox images, in particular hosting a workflow to automate
  prebuilt images by host language/keyboard, however some community
  members were aghast at the idea.

 Maybe now is a better time.  Maybe those aghast at the idea haven't
 noticed yet.  ;-)

 --
 James Cameron
 http://quozl.linux.org.au/




 --
 Gonzalo Odiard

 SugarLabs - Software for children learning





 --
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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC projects

[Sean DALY]

I'm certainly willing to try again. However the community (starting with
the Oversight Board) needs to support the initiative - technical work is
involved on our side even with a partner, including work I probably don't
even know about. And SL's immediate focus is on mentoring GSoC projects.

I will ask for an agenda item in the next Oversight Borard meeting or the
one after.

Sean.


On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 2:49 PM, Iain Brown Douglas 
i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote:

 Hi Sean,

 Is it a thing that you would contemplate now, to approach Oracle (for
 corporate sponsorship, perhaps) but  in particular about what support
 they would offer Sugarlabs towards our targets?

 Would there be a view against this idea?

 Regards,

 Iain

 On Sat, 2015-03-21 at 11:37 +0100, Sean DALY wrote:
  Yes, of course, which is why my idea was to get assistance. To be
  clear, I'm in favor of whatever solution could ease installation.
  Choosing a keyboard layout from scratch can be quite tricky for the
  uninitiated, the Virtualbox list is long with many variants
  (
 https://straymarcs.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/8.-select-keyboard.png)
 although an autodetect button is available. If the teacher or journalist
 has to configure language and keyboard a second time when booting the VM as
 you mention, that qualifies as jumping through hoops. My goal was to work
 with Oracle on a bundled installer+VM executable (which requires a matrix
 by host OS in any case) to make the install as seamless as possible. I cite
 Firefox because they propose a pancake button installer by probing the
 website client (or analyzing the user agent, or whatever they do), with the
 full matrix only 1 click away.
 
 
  Sean
 
 
 
  On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 2:06 AM, Gonzalo Odiard
  godi...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
  We can ask language and keyboard in the first boot as we do
  with age and gender.
  I think create and maintain a complete matrix of VMs will be
  more difficult.
 
 
  Gonzalo
 
  On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:39 PM, Sean DALY
  sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:
  We need to do everything possible to reduce Sugar's
  installation and unfamiliarity barriers. Not everyone
  speaks English and can find and configure the Sugar
  control panel on their first encounter with Sugar. A
  keyboard mismatched with what appears on the screen
  merely gives the impression it doesn't work right. VM
  hosts could have a number of different keyboards - for
  example I have a Macbook with French locale Azerty
  layout
 
   (flipped numbers row, common accents) and a Dell
  education netbook with Belgium locale keyboard. Look
  at the Firefox Systems  Languages download matrix
  (https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all/), for a
  Sugar VM with bundled installer an interested teacher
  or journalist would just need to choose the
  appropriate download.
 
 
  I feel the huge sizes of these images would be more of
  a problem, but not much we can do there.
 
 
  Sean
 
 
 
  On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 9:35 PM, Gonzalo Odiard
  godi...@sugarlabs.org wrote:
   My idea at the time was to approach Oracle
  for corporate sponsorship
   of Virtualbox images, in particular hosting
  a workflow to automate
   prebuilt images by host language/keyboard,
  however some community
   members were aghast at the idea.
 
 
  Is still needed have a vm by host
  language/keyboard?
  Or we can ask to the user using the same code
  from the Sugar control panel?
 
 
  Gonzalo
 
 
 
 
 
  On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 5:18 PM, James Cameron
  qu...@laptop.org wrote:
  On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 06:26:34PM
  +0100, Sean DALY wrote:
   My idea at the time was to approach
  Oracle for corporate sponsorship
   of Virtualbox images, in particular
  hosting a workflow to automate
   prebuilt images by host
  language/keyboard, however some
  community
   members were aghast at the idea.
 
  Maybe now is a better time.  Maybe

Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC projects

[Sean DALY]

No the license was fine last time i checked - look at the section
concerning nonprofit/educational use. Our plan had been to bundle Sugar
prebuilt images with the Virtualbox installer.

The real issue is the extensions which are separate from the installer for
licensing reasons and must be loaded separately. The extensions may be
vital for connectivity.

My idea at the time was to approach Oracle for corporate sponsorship of
Virtualbox images, in particular hosting a workflow to automate prebuilt
images by host language/keyboard, however some community members were
aghast at the idea.

I myself have used Sugar in VirtualBox at presentations and conferences,
hassle free screen/sound/internet connectivity and full screen (Macbook),
while I hold/pass around an XO.

Sean


On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Sebastian Silva sebast...@fuentelibre.org
wrote:

  I was under the impression that the only viable option for that purpose
 was Virtualbox, but it's license is pretty dubious (GPLv2 + some useful
 parts proprietary). Oracle has a history of bad behaviour with regard to
 licenses, so I would not put all of our eggs in this basket.

 Still, with 3 months time, a student should be able to pull off making it
 as friendly as possible, but it would have to be repeatable, like you say,
 almost automatic.

 It would be even better if it was fully automatic that way we could have
 regular builds.

 Regards,
 Sebastian

 El 20/03/15 a las 08:38, Gonzalo Odiard escibió:

 I didn't have idea that there are so many virtualization options:


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_platform_virtualization_software

  If we could have a almost automatic way to create a vm,
 and share to users in windows or mac, could solve a lot of problems,
 and help us reach a bigger user base.

  Gonzalo



 On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Sebastian Silva 
 sebast...@fuentelibre.org wrote:

  El 20/03/15 a las 06:58, Gonzalo Odiard escibió:

   | A different approach would be to provide a virtual machine _and_
  virtualisation software _and_ all the necessary configuration files so
  that the user is not exposed to the virtualisation.


  Yes. This would be great.

 This would also be a nice GSOC project.




  --
  Gonzalo Odiard

 SugarLabs - Software for children learning



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Re: [Sugar-devel] GSoC projects

[Sean DALY]

We need to do everything possible to reduce Sugar's installation and
unfamiliarity barriers. Not everyone speaks English and can find and
configure the Sugar control panel on their first encounter with Sugar. A
keyboard mismatched with what appears on the screen merely gives the
impression it doesn't work right. VM hosts could have a number of different
keyboards - for example I have a Macbook with French locale Azerty layout
 (flipped numbers row, common accents) and a Dell education netbook with
Belgium locale keyboard. Look at the Firefox Systems  Languages download
matrix (https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all/), for a Sugar VM with
bundled installer an interested teacher or journalist would just need to
choose the appropriate download.

I feel the huge sizes of these images would be more of a problem, but not
much we can do there.

Sean


On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 9:35 PM, Gonzalo Odiard godi...@sugarlabs.org
wrote:

  My idea at the time was to approach Oracle for corporate sponsorship
  of Virtualbox images, in particular hosting a workflow to automate
  prebuilt images by host language/keyboard, however some community
  members were aghast at the idea.

 Is still needed have a vm by host language/keyboard?
 Or we can ask to the user using the same code from the Sugar control panel?

 Gonzalo



 On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 5:18 PM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 06:26:34PM +0100, Sean DALY wrote:
  My idea at the time was to approach Oracle for corporate sponsorship
  of Virtualbox images, in particular hosting a workflow to automate
  prebuilt images by host language/keyboard, however some community
  members were aghast at the idea.

 Maybe now is a better time.  Maybe those aghast at the idea haven't
 noticed yet.  ;-)

 --
 James Cameron
 http://quozl.linux.org.au/




 --
 Gonzalo Odiard

 SugarLabs - Software for children learning

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Planning for the future (Samuel, Greenfeld)

[Sean DALY]

Hi Tony,

I for one certainly don't feel Sugar is only for children in developed
countries. I believe Sugar offers benefits for all children. I do think
that widespread use of Sugar in developed countries would encourage its use
in the developing world, for several reasons. One of these is the
opportunity for major donors, journalists, and influential educators - who
could make a difference in developing world projects - to experience Sugar
directly, something they have never been able to do without difficulty. I
remember a testy exchange with a journalist who described the XO (which he
had never seen) in his article as a laptop running Linux. I told him that
was reductionist, like calling an iPhone a FreeBSD terminal, and
explained that Sugar is an environment specifically designed for children.
His position was that the XO was challenging the market position of Windows
- childrens' learning or the digital divide weren't the angles.

In the past few years we've seen enormous changes, in particular the rise
of handheld tactile devices (smartphones/tablets/phablets), which seem to
offer advantages for schools (rugged, light, many fewer moving parts,
software keyboard easy to localize) but which are better suited to
consuming content rather than creating it. And in the developing world, the
incredible rise of mobile, a large percentage of which are
Internet-connected smartphones (see the Pew report of a year ago:
http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/02/13/emerging-nations-embrace-internet-mobile-technology).


I have been astonished at learnings from the Nosy Komba (Madagascar)
micro-deployment managed by the OLPC France association (not affiliated
with OLPC). There was no Internet on the island, but highspeed xDSL was
available in the port on the mainland a few kilometers over open water.
OLPC France volunteers designed and installed a wifi link (this involved
climbing the island's volcano to set up an antenna) after initial
resistance from the local telco provider. When the island's villages
learned that the school had not only computers for the children, but
limited Internet access, the school's attendance jumped (a dormitory had to
be built as a result). And the island's fishermen wanted to learn how to
obtain weather and tides information. My point is that even in remote
areas, people know that the Internet exists and that children need
computers and connectivity to develop opportunities - there will be fewer
and fewer schools which are completely off-grid. I agree that the children
in those schools need help the most, that with no connectivity a local
device (or device+server) is all-important, and that the XO is best-suited
as that device. However Sugar offers the possibility of using a different
device if XOs become unavailable. It's not farfetched to imagine a
hardware/Sugar education project based on a RPi or other Single Board
Computer (SBC), perhaps with an internal battery, used for example with
shared keyboards and screens at school connected to a school server, maybe
with satellite tablet screen for outside school...

To me, the goal of Sugar Labs is to offer its benefits to all children, not
just those lucky enough to have access to an XO. This can certainly include
children in developing countries - witness Sugar's support for indigenous
languages, always a step ahead of commercial offerings, yet of only limited
interest in developed countries.

Sean.


On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Tony Anderson tony_ander...@usa.net
wrote:

 Sean,

 I think you are getting at what I consider the heart of the problem.
 SugarLabs sees Sugar as an alternative GUI for any computing device with
 primary efficacy in the developed, internet-connected world. This goal is
 understandable since the XOs have a limited life and so Sugar must be
 operable on currently marketed devices.

 The project I signed up for is to place computers in the hands of every
 child at a community school in the developing world where electricity is an
 issue, the internet is unavailable, and teachers as well as students have
 no prior experience with computing. The goal of the project is to enhance
 the educational opportunities of these students through the use of Sugar as
 well as access to information others on the right side of the digital
 divide get from the internet.

 Tony

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Planning for the future (Samuel Greenfeld)

[Sean DALY]

cc'ing the Marketing list - the one everyone forgets as soon as they
discuss marketing.

The MarketLab study we worked on back then confirmed what we already knew -
that Sugar's websites did not accompany teachers interested in Sugar, and
that Sugar absolutely needed a simple installer. They also advised that we
should use visuals of children heavily in our marketing. I myself could no
longer donate thousands of USD to keep marketing going and organize photo
shoots, so we asked the community several times for images. We were unable
to obtain any usable, released images.

Even before the study, we had tried to federate the multiple Sugar websites
under a common menu bar until a more unified website could be created, but
no one was interested in working on that - at the time I remember someone
even said that teachers could prove their motivation by finding scattered
information themselves (!)

The biggest problem then, simplifying access to Sugar so interested
educators and journalists could overcome the installation and unfamiliarity
barriers, remains pertinent today. If the community really got behind Sugar
on a Stick or a VM matrix or a Raspberry Pi build - testing, documentation,
polish - this product could happen. Sugar is both a very different
interface to classic desktop analogy GUIs familiar to adults, and (except
for XOs and some Classmates) absent from any machines which could run it.
To be properly evaluated by any interested educator or journalist, it must
be obtained, installed and configured, then understood, and finally
compared with competing solutions. These are enormous hurdles to access
Sugar, and lowering or eliminating these barriers should be top priority.
Are they?

I believe Sugar in a browser, keeping its core values in particular View
Source, is the best way to eliminate the installation and unfamiliarity
barriers. It may also be in the long term the best way to run Sugar.

Free/libre open source software projects are generally awful at marketing,
perhaps because most engineers don't understand it. Great effort is put
into technical professionalism, while most marketing efforts are
breathtakingly amateurish. As someone who has worked as a developer,
journalist, IT director, and the past dozen years in marketing, I like to
think I understand both sides. Marketing is often assumed by developers to
be recruitment - certainly important, but our real target is educators.
Grassroots marketing is great - we all do it - however, it isn't sufficient
to bring Sugar to tens of millions of children, through millions of
teachers. We do have the competence to do world-class marketing. What we
don't have is an easy-to-try, stable product, and the necessary resources
(human, financial). A great product or service is at the heart of effective
marketing - even companies with enormous marketing budgets (on average 11%
of overall budget, source The CMO Survey by Duke University Fuqua School of
Business) have difficulty moving a product unsuited to the market.

Sugar has great branding, just no brand awareness. We tried to improve this
in XO countries by placing a Sugar logo in the OLPC splash screen, and
asking OLPC to mention Sugar in their PR (the anti-Sugar people pushed back
against this). The slickness of our graphics chart has even worked against
us - the Marketlab people found that we were perceived as a for-profit
startup, which is why we play up the nonprofit in our PR since the study.
OLPC (outside the countries with large XO deployments) has no brand
awareness either. We don't have the funds to do market studies, but I would
wager that unaided awareness of the OLPC logo in educators doesn't top 5%.
OLPC's real brand is the XO itself, which is why even today you see
Pantone-361 green and white objects everywhere (for example:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/522717158/cognitoys-internet-connected-smart-toys-that-learn
).

So yes, we need more marketing, just like we need more developing,
more packaging, more testing, more documentation, more feedback from
educators  children, and more outreach. Lack of resources has been a
critical factor in slowing Sugar, but I believe that in order to convince
charitable givers, we need a plan that the community supports, and to
demonstrate that we have the necessary skills to pursue the roadmap with a
chance of success.

Sean.




On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 12:47 PM, Gonzalo Odiard godi...@sugarlabs.org
wrote:

 Thanks Sam. I never read that.
 Have good points.

 Gonzalo

 On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 8:21 AM, Sam P. sam.parkins...@gmail.com wrote:

 I just found this interesting powerpoint from a few years ago.  Slide 25
 is basically a summary of this discussion:
 https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=vpid=sitessrcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxtYXJrZXRsYWJzdWdhcnxneDo0Y2U3ODFjZDczMmU1Mjlh

 Thanks,
 Sam

 On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:16 AM Gonzalo Odiard godi...@sugarlabs.org
 wrote:

 Thanks Sameer, very good points,
 a few comments/questions below

 On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Mail subscription in sugar-devel interrupted

[Sean DALY]

I had been booted from both sugar-devel and IAEP, and although the
sugar-devel reactivate link worked, that link didn't work for IAEP.
Manually forcing it on the IAEP sub page fixed it.

Sean


On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 7:22 PM, Gonzalo Odiard godi...@sugarlabs.org
wrote:

 Reporting here if is useful for others:

 I stopped receiving emails from sugar-devel mailing list,
 because my account was disabled due to excessive bounces
 The bounces look originated in gmail policies:

 (This is a log in laptop.org)
 Mar  2 06:51:41 swan postfix/smtp[26459]: 810C94C078B: to=
 godi...@gmail.com, orig_to=gonz...@laptop.org, relay=
 alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[173.194.207.26]:25, delay=463,
 delays=462/0/1/0.65, dsn=4.7.0, status=deferred (host
 alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[173.194.207.26] said: 421-4.7.0
 [18.85.44.157  15] Our system has detected an unusual rate of 421-4.7.0
 unsolicited mail originating from your IP address. To protect our 421-4.7.0
 users
  from spam, mail sent from your IP address has been temporarily 421-4.7.0
 rate limited. Please visit 421-4.7.0
 http://www.google.com/mail/help/bulk_mail.html to review our Bulk 421
 4.7.0 Email Senders Guidelines. 3si11466794qhx.4 - gsmtp (in reply to end
 of DATA command))

 I needed login in http://lists.sugarlabs.org/options/sugar-devel/ and
 enable my account,
 where a message said:

 Note: your list delivery is currently disabled; it was disabled due to
 excessive bounces. The last bounce was received on 28-Feb-2015.

 You may have disabled list delivery intentionally, or it may have been
 triggered by bounces from your email address. In either case, to re-enable
 delivery, change the Mail delivery option below. Contact the list
 administrator if you have any questions or need assistance.

 I enabled my account, but lost the emails from when was disabled until now.

 I don't know why gmail bounce these emails or if we can do something in
 our server to avoid that.

 If you are waiting a reply from my part, please resend.

 --
 Gonzalo Odiard

 SugarLabs - Software for children learning

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Re: [Sugar-devel] SugarLabs.org new website - looking for opinions/ideas!

[Sean DALY]

Hi Tymon,

I think it's great you have stepped up to rework the sl.o website.

Christian who designed the original pages had worked on a new framework a
while back, but we got bogged down trying to find usable (both attractive
and legal) visuals of kids using Sugar.

I have a typographical suggestion - instead of WELCOME TO SUGARLABS it
would be better to keep to the typographical guidelines (lowercase VAG
Rounded Std Light).

Don't forget the press page, the press releases chart (part of) the history
of SL and if we have anything to announce of interest the press page is
where newswire press releases point to (sugarlabs.org/press).

cc'ing the marketing list if anyone is still on it.

Sean


On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 2:02 PM, Tymon Radzik dwg...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello,

 last week I was working with Walter Bender on new SugarLabs website, as
 current one is too old and doesn't have attractive UI. Results of our work
 is here:

 http://sugarlabs.org/~tymon/

 New website is based on Bootstrap, with some plugins and self-written
 jQuery code. It uses Jekyll, so it doesn't need PHP anymore.

 We would like to ask you for opinions about this new website, for ideas
 what we can change/improve/add/fix.

 All suggestions are very welcome!

 Best,
 Tymon

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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] Fwd: admin of sugarlabs fb page

[Sean DALY]

Puneet - what kind of messages do you have in mind?

we've wanted someone to be on that page for some time.

Sean



On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Puneet Kaur puneet.gk...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hey can you please add samsongoddy to the admin list of the page ?

 https://www.facebook.com/samson.goddy



 On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 12:36 AM, Mike Lee curious...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm one of a few people who were delegated some admin controls when the
 page was set up. I only remember this after looking at the page just now
 and seeing the extra admin tabs.

 Mike


 Sent from my iPhone

 On Apr 24, 2014, at 12:54 PM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:

 a worthy question

 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Puneet Kaur puneet.gk...@gmail.com
 Date: Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 6:41 PM
 Subject: [Sugar-devel] admin of sugarlabs fb page
 To: Sugar Devel sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org


 Anyone here has an idea who is the admin of this page -
 https://www.facebook.com/pages/SugarLabs/187845102582 ?

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [b2g] Introducing B2G to x86

[Sean DALY]

WIPO's Romarin database contradicts you regarding the LEGO mark.

LEGO vigorously defend infringement of their marks (
http://aboutus.lego.com/en-gb/legal-notice/fair-play).

Sean




On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Christian Stroetmann 
stroetm...@ontolab.com wrote:

 On Thu, 27.02.2014 01:13, Bastien wrote:

 Christian Stroetmannstroetm...@ontolab.com  writes:

  For sure, there is the One Tablet Per Child (OTPC) respectively One
 Pad Per Child (OPPC) project by my business division intellitablet
 since July 2012 (see [1]).

 A trademark is not just about adding (TM) after a bunch of other
 trademarks.

 I doubt you officially registered One Tablet Per Child.

 I mean... One LEGO Laptop Per Child (TM)... a new trademark with
 LEGO within it, seriously?

  You are right and wrong. Indeed, the related laws are complex and it
 needs some time and often support by an attorney for common people to
 understand them a little. So please, ask a attorney, and keep in mind that
 the terms are used commercially and are copyrighted as well. That is also
 the reason, why a said in an e-mail before, that the issue with the
 trademark is irrelevant here.

 The point with LEGO in a new trademark is serious.
 For example, if a registered trademark belongs to a common language, which
 is the case if the trademark is known very well by the public, like for
 example Lego, Windows, Google, Android, and so on, then the trademark laws
 say, that it can be deleted from the trademark register. Said this, I
 already doubt in this specific case that the company LEGO has still control
 over the trademark LEGO.
 Nevertheless, it was meant as a place holder and an idea contributer, if
 the company LEGO would be interested in such a One LEGO Laptop Per Child
 (TM) device on the one hand and on the other hand a mark that my company
 publicated the concept with this title. There are more points to say, but
 again ask an attorney, look at other laws, and so on, and respect my
 company's trademarks.



 Regards
 Christian Stroetmann


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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] RFC: Make Sugar 0.102 = Sugar 1.0[ Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 61, Issue 43]

[Sean DALY]

thanks for that Sebastian

We haven't had a marketing version number until now (excepting SoaS v1 in
2009 which we implied in our communications was v1), so from a marketing
perspective the only question is whether to go v2 or v3. I don't have a
strong opinion, but the key is that a marketing version number bump should
indeed happen only because of marketing needs and not technical version
number changes or on a timetable.

Marketing needs can include:

* Seizing an opportunity (winning an award, obtaining funding, a milestone
such as 3MM Learners, ...)
* Technical (Reaching a technological goal, adding compatibility with
new/popular hardware, opening up a new line of development)
* Partnerships (OLPC, SFC, FSF, Nexcopy, GNOME, Team Chipotle)
* Building up our brand values and project identity, highlighting
differentiators such as our language support
* Showing that we are alive and kicking, keeping buzz momentum going
* etc.

Concerning technological development, some is uninteresting to teachers
(Gtk3), while some is very interesting (try Sugar on a $5 USB stick). There
is no direct correlation between how hard the work is and its marketing
value.

There will be a name, but that needs work, we will keep your suggestions in
mind.

Sean





On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Sebastian Silva
sebast...@fuentelibre.orgwrote:

  Hi,
 I think it's wrong to bump marketing version numbers on acount of
 technology shifts.
 I don't see how i'ts relevant for users that we switched to GTK3, or even
 that it is now
 possible to build native web activities (it was always possible with a
 wrapper).

 I see as a much more interesting development, the sudden appearance in
 Sugar of
 user-customizable bits, which have been developed by kids. The ability to
 customize
 Sugar has been desired by users from the very beginning, and the
 freestyle homeview
 was not sufficient. Kids would even use ASCII art on the nickname to
 personalize their
 desktop, sorry learning environment.

 This is a fun pic:
 http://blog.laptop.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/paraguay-homescreen1.jpg

 So, maybe Sugar 3.100 is really Your Sugar, or Freedom Sugar or
 Personal Sugar.
 Extra points to put the Freedom back in the priorities.

 Just a little humble opinion,

 Regards,
 Sebastian

 El 08/11/13 07:29, Gonzalo Odiard escribió:

 I also think w should change the major number when we have something
 different to show (when we achieved the goal)

  Gonzalo


  On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.comwrote:

 Thanks, I now see where I was confused... Normally in developer
 versioning you bump the major number when you achieved a certain goal (say
 have an Online experience you can be proud of). Here we are bumping when
 starting to work towards the goal instead. I don't see that as an issue,
 just need to be clear about it.

  So the proposal for next release is version 3.102. Thoughts? Is the
 rationale clear? Anyone unhappy with it?


 On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:

  Daniel - if we can work out where SL is going, we can build a PR
 story. If we aren't sure, it's better to communicate other aspects (TA
 Days, Google Code-In, the TripAdvisor grant).

  I like v3 as a major version, step versions could be called 3.102,
 3.103, 3.104 by developers, while marketing would call it 3 and a name. If
 we are lucky and the name (Online, Touch, Hand, Cloud, or whatever
 - this needs work) catches on, we can keep it through step versions.

  It's important to understand that in the complete absence of a
 marketing/promotion budget (with the exception of the newswire 10-pack
 which was voted by the SLOBs), effective PR is our chief resource-effective
 way to build awareness. This means we tell news based on the possibility of
 press coverage, not automatically every time there is a version.

  102 can become v3.102 and we can announce the html/javascript browser
 approach, ideally associated with a method for teachers to try Sugar - SoaS
 with extra teacher-friendly bits, or VMs. If that is too ambitious, the v3
 marketing push could wait until 3.104. Sugar brand awareness is on the
 nonexistent end of the scale for our ten million teachers, this means we
 can set the schedule. It's harder when there is buzz and momentum, a
 situation we had after SoaS v1 Strawberry.

  Sean.



 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.comwrote:

 I agree with you about major.minor, with major being the marketing
 version and minor the developers one. Did I get that right? Does anyone
 disagree?

  What I'm not sure to understand is which major number you would like
 to be used for the next release. To make it easier let's say we are
 currently v2 as Yioryos suggested. My understanding is that

  * If it's a release we can PR, developers will call it 3.102,
 marketing 3  + some name.
 * if we cannot PR it, developers will call it 2.103, marketing... just
 won't call it :)

  Is that correct?


 On Thursday, 7

Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign)

[Sean DALY]

Not only doable, has been done for some time now [1,2] and is
multi-platform ( what I use to demo Sugar on a Mac)

The Oracle PUEL license [3] very interestingly permits free redistribution
for educational purposes, opening the possibility of a single installer,
ideal for our needs.

In the past I have suggested approaching Oracle for a marketing partnership
under a CSR (corporate social responsibility) banner.

Sean

1. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox
2. https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/VirtualBox
2. https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/VirtualBox_PUEL



On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote:

 At least the virtualbox looks doable and a good way to show Sugar.

 Gonzalo


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:

 The larger problem is the absence of a marketing strategy, we need to
 know where we are going to communicate effectively. In particular, we need
 to choose and implement how to offer Sugar tryout to teachers and
 journalists.


 I can think of a couple of approaches

 * Get Sugar running well on the CuBox-i. Find budget to buy a few of
 those to distribute to chosen journalist and teachers. Try to partner with
 SolidRun to offer Sugar as an out-of-the-box installation option.

 * Make it easy to run Sugar inside VirtualBox on Windows and OS X.
 Without having investigated too deeply it seems that a two step process
 would be both realistically implementable and easy enough for the user

 1 Install virtualbox
 2 Install a Sugar application (which would take care of setting up the
 appliance).

 Thoughts? Other ideas? If we can agree on one or two concrete,
 realistic approaches, I think we can at least attempt to get them done for
 3.102.


 --
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Sur] [IAEP] Sugar oversight board meeting

[Sean DALY]

David - what I meant was, no strategic partnership between the distros.
Ubuntu wouldn't pose so many difficulties if M. Shuttleworth/Canonical got
behind Sugar for example.

Sean



On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:46 AM, David Farning dfarn...@activitycentral.com
 wrote:

 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:07 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:
  I'm sorry Sebastian, yes I should have been more clear about which
 Sebastian
  :-)
 
  At the time, Sugar was perceived as being only available on OLPC XOs, so
 our
  effort was designed to show that it was available for other platforms.
  Indeed, our claim has always been that it was hardware-agnostic (on Mac
  using virtualization), cf. our press releases (sl.o/press). And, SoaS as
 a
  marketing concept was meant to be distro-agnostic too (SuSE...), a
 position
  fought tooth and nail by the Fedorans by the way.
 
  Pre-tablets, when small netbooks sales were exploding, Windows was
 dominant
  on PCs but ran poorly or not at all on netbooks and moreover there was an
  installation barrier for Windows on GNU/Linux netbooks. We were
 interested
  in reaching the 92% or so of teachers using Windows and widening Sugar
  availability on machines with pre-installed GNU/Linux (all 2% or so of
  them). Microsoft and Intel worked quickly to block GNU/Linux netbooks by
  pressuring OEMs to build faster machines, then tablets arrived and killed
  off netbooks.
 
  It's unfortunate that Sugar was not fully embraced by the GNU/Linux
 distros
  who missed a great opportunity in the education market where Microsoft
 had
  and has weaknesses, but that has been a symptom of free software projects
  struggling with strategic initiatives while concentrating on technical
  aspects.

 How does Sugar on Ubuntu (DXU) and Sugar on Tablets (DX experimental)
 affect this equation for Sugar Labs?

  Dismal marketing has contributed to dismal desktop market share
  (Microsoft's well-documented maneuvers played a role too of course).
 
  Installation: As Peter has mentioned, SoaS can be used for installation
 on a
  target PC, this is documented in the wiki.
 
  Concerning translations, language selection was available in at least
  several versions of SoaS, I remember switching French and US locale and
  keyboard demoing SoaS at an Educatec-Educatice convention in Paris. I
 have
  no doubt that solutions are possible, but do remember that Peter has been
  continuing SoaS work singlehandedly for some time now.
 
  Looking forward, I see a dual challenge for Sugar Labs: supporting the XO
  installed base (including hopefully keeping XO-4 availability alive), and
  transitioning to the wild new world of handheld devices.
 
  Sean
 
 
 
  On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Sebastian Silva 
 sebast...@fuentelibre.org
  wrote:
 
 
  El 06/11/13 17:35, Sean DALY escribió:
 
  On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  But you have for a long time refused to actually even market SoaS!
 
 
  That's right, at the time SoaS became an official Fedora spin, Mel and
  Sebastian decided to take over marketing, which included coming up with
  unmarketable names, linking with Fedora announcements, and opening a
 Fedora
  hosted minisite (the home of SoaS), none of which was done with any
  consultation of the SL marketing team.
 
  Please try to include last names, you mean Sebastian Dzallas, original
  developer of Sugar On A Stick.
 
  Now that we're on the topic... the concept Sugar On A Stick has
 several
  problems.
 
  1.- It suggests it's the only possible Sugar OS on a USB.
  2.- It suggests it's not a serious OS to be installed on a computer.
  3.- It's impossible to translate.
  4.- It suggests it's not regular GNU/Linux, with availability of the
  Myriad other GNU/Linux educational tools.
 
  Regards,
  Sebastian Silva
  R+D SomosAzúcar
  Sugar Labs Perú
  @icarito
 
 
 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign)

[Sean DALY]

I believe Oracle GPL'd the code itself, as I remember it was the extension
pack  installer that had licensing issues... in any case, topics for the
SFC to help with

Sean



On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:
  Not only doable, has been done for some time now [1,2] and is
 multi-platform
  ( what I use to demo Sugar on a Mac)
 
  The Oracle PUEL license [3] very interestingly permits free
 redistribution
  for educational purposes, opening the possibility of a single installer,
  ideal for our needs.
 
  In the past I have suggested approaching Oracle for a marketing
 partnership
  under a CSR (corporate social responsibility) banner.

 One issue we bump up against is the stricture to only host FOSS
 materials. So if we were to have such a partnership, it may have to
 hosted elsewhere. (VMWare has a similar program)

 -walter

 
  Sean
 
  1. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox
  2. https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/VirtualBox
  2. https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/VirtualBox_PUEL
 
 
 
  On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org
 wrote:
 
  At least the virtualbox looks doable and a good way to show Sugar.
 
  Gonzalo
 
 
  On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:
 
  The larger problem is the absence of a marketing strategy, we need to
  know where we are going to communicate effectively. In particular, we
 need
  to choose and implement how to offer Sugar tryout to teachers and
  journalists.
 
 
  I can think of a couple of approaches
 
  * Get Sugar running well on the CuBox-i. Find budget to buy a few of
  those to distribute to chosen journalist and teachers. Try to partner
 with
  SolidRun to offer Sugar as an out-of-the-box installation option.
 
  * Make it easy to run Sugar inside VirtualBox on Windows and OS X.
  Without having investigated too deeply it seems that a two step process
  would be both realistically implementable and easy enough for the user
 
  1 Install virtualbox
  2 Install a Sugar application (which would take care of setting up the
  appliance).
 
  Thoughts? Other ideas? If we can agree on one or two concrete,
 realistic
  approaches, I think we can at least attempt to get them done for 3.102.
 
 
  --
  Daniel Narvaez
 
 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] different perspectives

[Sean DALY]

On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:56 AM, David Farning
dfarn...@activitycentral.comwrote:

 The highest rate of progress happens when the parties focus on getting
 ahead of the other guys rather then when they focus on holding others
 back. Progress tends to stop when one party gets so far ahead that it
 is not worth it for others to compete.



I don't disagree, but I would qualify that: The highest rate of progress
happens when the parties focus on getting ahead of the other guys by
changing the game. This is why I maintain that GNU/Linux distros
considering each other as competitors is pointless at the end of the day
when 92% or so of the desktop/laptop market is running MS Windows.

Sean
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign)

[Sean DALY]

Of course it doesn't stop us from marketing, but it adds two extra hurdles
for teachers to deal with (the GPL VirtualBox installer + the PUEL
extension pack necessary for passthrough USB support). So techies won't
care, but I guarantee a percentage of teachers will. It's a well-documented
axiom of internet marketing that you lose up to 50% of prospects with every
additional click - this is precisely why Amazon deployed 1-click purchases.
With three clicks instead of one, I hope we don't lose 20%, 30%, 50% of
interested teachers. After all, there's already a barrier: the huge size of
the downloads.

It's obvious given our limited resources we need to evaluate our most
resource-effective ways of publishing prepared VMs. This is what I had in
mind about approaching Oracle. But we need to try to maximize our potential
conversion rate without additional hoops. I'd be happy with anything over
10% (software/SaaS average rate is roughly 7% [1]), and we won't even be
gating the download in a contact form.

My proposal two years ago to make VMs the preferred method for teachers to
try Sugar met with opposition from Peter and others who preferred SoaS.

Sean

[1]
http://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/chart/average-website-conversion-rates-industry#


On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:

 Do we really need a single installer? I mean I see it would be ideal but
 it feels like it might be tricky licensing, implementation and maintenance
 wise.

 From what I understand from Thomas, after installing VirtualBox, it's just
 downloading and clicking on an icon (I should really try it but I'm on a
 bad connection these days). It might not be perfect but it doesn't really
 sound bad, what is stopping us marketing Sugar this way really?


 On Friday, 8 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:

 Not only doable, has been done for some time now [1,2] and is
 multi-platform ( what I use to demo Sugar on a Mac)

 The Oracle PUEL license [3] very interestingly permits free
 redistribution for educational purposes, opening the possibility of a
 single installer, ideal for our needs.

 In the past I have suggested approaching Oracle for a marketing
 partnership under a CSR (corporate social responsibility) banner.

 Sean

 1. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox
 2. https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/VirtualBox
 2. https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/VirtualBox_PUEL



 On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.orgwrote:

 At least the virtualbox looks doable and a good way to show Sugar.

 Gonzalo


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:

 The larger problem is the absence of a marketing strategy, we need to
 know where we are going to communicate effectively. In particular, we need
 to choose and implement how to offer Sugar tryout to teachers and
 journalists.


 I can think of a couple of approaches

 * Get Sugar running well on the CuBox-i. Find budget to buy a few of
 those to distribute to chosen journalist and teachers. Try to partner with
 SolidRun to offer Sugar as an out-of-the-box installation option.

 * Make it easy to run Sugar inside VirtualBox on Windows and OS X.
 Without having investigated too deeply it seems that a two step process
 would be both realistically implementable and easy enough for the user

 1 Install virtualbox
 2 Install a Sugar application (which would take care of setting up the
 appliance).

 Thoughts? Other ideas? If we can agree on one or two concrete,
 realistic approaches, I think we can at least attempt to get them done for
 3.102.


 --
 Daniel Narvaez


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar tryout (was Re: sugarlabs.org redesign)

[Sean DALY]

Daniel - you mean the main download page [1], right? Not the VirtualBox
page [2]?

These and other wiki pages are indeed long and complex. We could break
those out into a dozen subpages to keep each one manageable. This problem
was meant to be solved by the new website template designed to replace the
static main site.

I believe Bernie has a stat tool for pages including the static main site,
i remember seeing a report where traffic was like a thousand times more
than usual after one of our press releases in the past.

Conversion rate will both improve and remain very marginal as we streamline
the existing structure since we haven't had press coverage for some time.
I'm all for measuring, the number can only go up. However, without even
measuring anything, there can be no doubt that every extra click will cost
us downloads when we get press coverage rolling again.

The best way to do it is to propose a default pair of pancake buttons
(SoaS/VM) based on the visitor's OS and language, and hide the complex
lists under an other systems and languages link. Adobe (Flash, Reader)
and OOo do it like this.

VirtualBox: I believe the installer autoconfigures itself for language
(around 20 langs) after first screen in English, but we need to know if our
VMs could autoconfigure for lang/keyb and if so, how much work that is, I
imagine the alternative being a matrix of prebuilt machines by language
(for sure that will be work). The learning curve and resources required is
why I want to reach out to Oracle.

For SoaS, I believe it has always been default US-en lang/keyb, we'd have
to ask Peter if a reasonably simple solution for multiple languages is
available - ideally, a language setup screen when first run.

Sean

1. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/DocumentationTeam/Try_Sugar
2. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/VirtualBox




On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:

 Of course I agree with you that less barriers the better but I think we
 need to pick our battles. With current state of the downloads page I'd
 expect the conversion rate to near the 0%. It takes a *lot* of extra clicks
 to achieve the same.

 I propose that we

 * Rewrite the downloads page offering *simple* instruction only
 for Soas and Virtualbox.
 * Keep the current page somewhere on the wiki, prominently linked, it's
 fine for techies.
 * Start measuring conversion rate. I suspect we don't have a way to count
 the number of users that managed to reach the Sugar home. But measuring
 completed downloads would be a start.
 * Gradually get rid of as many barriers as possible and see how the rate
 is affected.


 On Friday, 8 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:

 Of course it doesn't stop us from marketing, but it adds two extra
 hurdles for teachers to deal with (the GPL VirtualBox installer + the PUEL
 extension pack necessary for passthrough USB support). So techies won't
 care, but I guarantee a percentage of teachers will. It's a well-documented
 axiom of internet marketing that you lose up to 50% of prospects with every
 additional click - this is precisely why Amazon deployed 1-click purchases.
 With three clicks instead of one, I hope we don't lose 20%, 30%, 50% of
 interested teachers. After all, there's already a barrier: the huge size of
 the downloads.

 It's obvious given our limited resources we need to evaluate our most
 resource-effective ways of publishing prepared VMs. This is what I had in
 mind about approaching Oracle. But we need to try to maximize our potential
 conversion rate without additional hoops. I'd be happy with anything over
 10% (software/SaaS average rate is roughly 7% [1]), and we won't even be
 gating the download in a contact form.

 My proposal two years ago to make VMs the preferred method for teachers
 to try Sugar met with opposition from Peter and others who preferred SoaS.

 Sean

 [1]
 http://www.marketingsherpa.com/article/chart/average-website-conversion-rates-industry#


 On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.comwrote:

 Do we really need a single installer? I mean I see it would be ideal but
 it feels like it might be tricky licensing, implementation and maintenance
 wise.

 From what I understand from Thomas, after installing VirtualBox, it's
 just downloading and clicking on an icon (I should really try it but I'm on
 a bad connection these days). It might not be perfect but it doesn't really
 sound bad, what is stopping us marketing Sugar this way really?


 On Friday, 8 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:

 Not only doable, has been done for some time now [1,2] and is
 multi-platform ( what I use to demo Sugar on a Mac)

 The Oracle PUEL license [3] very interestingly permits free
 redistribution for educational purposes, opening the possibility of a
 single installer, ideal for our needs.

 In the past I have suggested approaching Oracle for a marketing
 partnership under a CSR (corporate social responsibility) banner.

 Sean

 1. http

Re: [Sugar-devel] [Sur] [IAEP] Sugar oversight board meeting

[Sean DALY]

I'm sorry Sebastian, yes I should have been more clear about which
Sebastian :-)

At the time, Sugar was perceived as being only available on OLPC XOs, so
our effort was designed to show that it was available for other platforms.
Indeed, our claim has always been that it was hardware-agnostic (on Mac
using virtualization), cf. our press releases (sl.o/press). And, SoaS as a
marketing concept was meant to be distro-agnostic too (SuSE...), a position
fought tooth and nail by the Fedorans by the way.

Pre-tablets, when small netbooks sales were exploding, Windows was dominant
on PCs but ran poorly or not at all on netbooks and moreover there was an
installation barrier for Windows on GNU/Linux netbooks. We were interested
in reaching the 92% or so of teachers using Windows and widening Sugar
availability on machines with pre-installed GNU/Linux (all 2% or so of
them). Microsoft and Intel worked quickly to block GNU/Linux netbooks by
pressuring OEMs to build faster machines, then tablets arrived and killed
off netbooks.

It's unfortunate that Sugar was not fully embraced by the GNU/Linux distros
who missed a great opportunity in the education market where Microsoft had
and has weaknesses, but that has been a symptom of free software projects
struggling with strategic initiatives while concentrating on technical
aspects. Dismal marketing has contributed to dismal desktop market share
(Microsoft's well-documented maneuvers played a role too of course).

Installation: As Peter has mentioned, SoaS can be used for installation on
a target PC, this is documented in the wiki.

Concerning translations, language selection was available in at least
several versions of SoaS, I remember switching French and US locale and
keyboard demoing SoaS at an Educatec-Educatice convention in Paris. I have
no doubt that solutions are possible, but do remember that Peter has been
continuing SoaS work singlehandedly for some time now.

Looking forward, I see a dual challenge for Sugar Labs: supporting the XO
installed base (including hopefully keeping XO-4 availability alive), and
transitioning to the wild new world of handheld devices.

Sean



On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Sebastian Silva
sebast...@fuentelibre.orgwrote:


 El 06/11/13 17:35, Sean DALY escribió:

  On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.comwrote:

 But you have for a long time refused to actually even market SoaS!


 That's right, at the time SoaS became an official Fedora spin, Mel and
 Sebastian decided to take over marketing, which included coming up with
 unmarketable names, linking with Fedora announcements, and opening a Fedora
 hosted minisite (the home of SoaS), none of which was done with any
 consultation of the SL marketing team.

  Please try to include last names, you mean Sebastian Dzallas, original
 developer of Sugar On A Stick.

 Now that we're on the topic... the concept Sugar On A Stick has several
 problems.

 1.- It suggests it's the only possible Sugar OS on a USB.
 2.- It suggests it's not a serious OS to be installed on a computer.
 3.- It's impossible to translate.
 4.- It suggests it's not regular GNU/Linux, with availability of the
 Myriad other GNU/Linux educational tools.

 Regards,
 Sebastian Silva
 R+D SomosAzúcar
 Sugar Labs Perú
 @icarito


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Re: [Sugar-devel] RFC: Make Sugar 0.102 = Sugar 1.0

[Sean DALY]

If we are talking about a version number that might make it into a press
release at some point, this is a marketing discussion so I have cc'd the
list.

As I've explained previously, the major issue with a v1 seven years after
entering production is that it is incomprehensible. Non-techies (i.e.
teachers) discovering Sugar will naturally assume there are 0 years of
production behind it. Tech journalists will roll on the floor laughing at a
Slashdot post e.g. Seven Years After OLPC's First Laptop, Sugar Reaches
V1.

We dealt with this problem when Sugar was numbered Sugar on a Stick v6 was
renamed Sugar on a Stick v1 Strawberry and the press responded to an
easy-to-understand story - that SL had spun off from OLPC and had a first
non-OLPC version available. That the technical version number of the
underlying Sugar was different was made irrelevant.

We need to do this again. The addition of browser support is a big deal. In
my view Sugar should be publicly numbered v2, perhaps with a name i.e.
Sugar v2 Online or Sugar v2 Tablet (or something - this needs marketing
work), with a clear story: Sugar opens up a new direction after seven years
of production.

The existing technical version numbering system has the merit of being
understandable to developers and the deployments community and could be
associated internally with the public number, i.e. 2.102, 2.104 etc., which
would not box us into a numbering system we can't market. Or perhaps become
irrelevant as Daniel N has suggested if we go to continuous development
mode.

I have more grey hair than I did when I first proposed we go to v1 six
years ago [1]...

(!)

So I think we are ready for v2.

Sean.

[1] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/marketing/2008-November/000425.html




On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote:

 We already have this discussion for Sugar 0.100,
 why not do it again? :)

 With more than 7 years of development and more than 2 million of users,
 probably we should accept a 1.0 version is deserved.

 With 6 months more, probably the web api will be more established,
 and we are not doing incompatible changes to the python api.

 Anybody have a Really Good Motive(r) to not do it?

 Gonzalo
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Re: [Sugar-devel] RFC: Make Sugar 0.102 = Sugar 1.0

[Sean DALY]

Yes Gonzalo, from a marketing standpoint 0.102 is as unworkable as 0.82 was
and all the numbers in between. However I'm afraid v1.0 will be a mistake.

I'm mystified, why would you think I don't see anything good in Sugar?

Sean




On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote:

 Ok, I am not a marketing guy.

 May be you are right and v2 is better than v1,
 but I am sure any of these is better than 0.102

 I think we can't claim a Tablet version of Sugar, but we have a lot to
 show.
 I hope you agree on that. If our marketing guys don't see anything
 good in Sugar,
 we have a problem.

 Gonzalo



 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:
  If we are talking about a version number that might make it into a press
  release at some point, this is a marketing discussion so I have cc'd the
  list.
 
  As I've explained previously, the major issue with a v1 seven years after
  entering production is that it is incomprehensible. Non-techies (i.e.
  teachers) discovering Sugar will naturally assume there are 0 years of
  production behind it. Tech journalists will roll on the floor laughing
 at a
  Slashdot post e.g. Seven Years After OLPC's First Laptop, Sugar Reaches
  V1.
 
  We dealt with this problem when Sugar was numbered Sugar on a Stick v6
 was
  renamed Sugar on a Stick v1 Strawberry and the press responded to an
  easy-to-understand story - that SL had spun off from OLPC and had a first
  non-OLPC version available. That the technical version number of the
  underlying Sugar was different was made irrelevant.
 
  We need to do this again. The addition of browser support is a big deal.
 In
  my view Sugar should be publicly numbered v2, perhaps with a name i.e.
  Sugar v2 Online or Sugar v2 Tablet (or something - this needs
 marketing
  work), with a clear story: Sugar opens up a new direction after seven
 years
  of production.
 
  The existing technical version numbering system has the merit of being
  understandable to developers and the deployments community and could be
  associated internally with the public number, i.e. 2.102, 2.104 etc.,
 which
  would not box us into a numbering system we can't market. Or perhaps
 become
  irrelevant as Daniel N has suggested if we go to continuous development
  mode.
 
  I have more grey hair than I did when I first proposed we go to v1 six
 years
  ago [1]...
 
  (!)
 
  So I think we are ready for v2.
 
  Sean.
 
  [1]
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/marketing/2008-November/000425.html
 
 
 
 
  On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org
 wrote:
 
  We already have this discussion for Sugar 0.100,
  why not do it again? :)
 
  With more than 7 years of development and more than 2 million of users,
  probably we should accept a 1.0 version is deserved.
 
  With 6 months more, probably the web api will be more established,
  and we are not doing incompatible changes to the python api.
 
  Anybody have a Really Good Motive(r) to not do it?
 
  Gonzalo
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Re: [Sugar-devel] RFC: Make Sugar 0.102 = Sugar 1.0[ Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 61, Issue 43]

[Sean DALY]

cc'ing marketing for... a marketing issue

Nope, the GTK3 change just passed under the radar. As stated previously I
lobbied for a v1 six years ago which is why we are ready for a v2. Or even
a v3.

For building a PR story I can work with v2 or v3, just not v1.

The issue with 2.2, 2.4 is that from a marketing perspective we get boxed
into a major number step timeframe irrespective of marketing needs. A major
number change should ideally happen when it's ready, or when we need to
communicate a major shift. I still think associating the existing numbering
behind a major number (e.g. 2.102) keeps continuity. PR will communicate
the major number, probably with a name. And not an unmarketable obscure
name, either.

Sean
Sugar Labs Marketing Coordinator




On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hmm I suppose the 1.x - 2.x switch would have not made sense to marketing
 because there wasn't major user visible changes?


 On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Yioryos Asprobounitis wrote:



 For sugar developers their is certainly a continuation in development and
 the current numbering makes a lot of sense.
 However, looking from outside 0.102 should be Sugar 3.x where  1.x is the
 original, 2.x is the Gtk3/introspection move and now the html5/jc
 (online/ultrabook/tablet) version.
 If you actually consider 0.100 as 3.0 then it can go 3.2, 3.4 etc to keep
 up with current numbering.
 Should make marketing happy with minimal disruption.

 ___
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 Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
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 --
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Re: [Sugar-devel] RFC: Make Sugar 0.102 = Sugar 1.0[ Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 61, Issue 43]

[Sean DALY]

Daniel - if we can work out where SL is going, we can build a PR story. If
we aren't sure, it's better to communicate other aspects (TA Days, Google
Code-In, the TripAdvisor grant).

I like v3 as a major version, step versions could be called 3.102, 3.103,
3.104 by developers, while marketing would call it 3 and a name. If we are
lucky and the name (Online, Touch, Hand, Cloud, or whatever - this
needs work) catches on, we can keep it through step versions.

It's important to understand that in the complete absence of a
marketing/promotion budget (with the exception of the newswire 10-pack
which was voted by the SLOBs), effective PR is our chief resource-effective
way to build awareness. This means we tell news based on the possibility of
press coverage, not automatically every time there is a version.

102 can become v3.102 and we can announce the html/javascript browser
approach, ideally associated with a method for teachers to try Sugar - SoaS
with extra teacher-friendly bits, or VMs. If that is too ambitious, the v3
marketing push could wait until 3.104. Sugar brand awareness is on the
nonexistent end of the scale for our ten million teachers, this means we
can set the schedule. It's harder when there is buzz and momentum, a
situation we had after SoaS v1 Strawberry.

Sean.



On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:

 I agree with you about major.minor, with major being the marketing version
 and minor the developers one. Did I get that right? Does anyone disagree?

 What I'm not sure to understand is which major number you would like to be
 used for the next release. To make it easier let's say we are currently v2
 as Yioryos suggested. My understanding is that

 * If it's a release we can PR, developers will call it 3.102, marketing 3
  + some name.
 * if we cannot PR it, developers will call it 2.103, marketing... just
 won't call it :)

 Is that correct?


 On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:

 cc'ing marketing for... a marketing issue

 Nope, the GTK3 change just passed under the radar. As stated previously I
 lobbied for a v1 six years ago which is why we are ready for a v2. Or even
 a v3.

 For building a PR story I can work with v2 or v3, just not v1.

 The issue with 2.2, 2.4 is that from a marketing perspective we get boxed
 into a major number step timeframe irrespective of marketing needs. A major
 number change should ideally happen when it's ready, or when we need to
 communicate a major shift. I still think associating the existing numbering
 behind a major number (e.g. 2.102) keeps continuity. PR will communicate
 the major number, probably with a name. And not an unmarketable obscure
 name, either.

 Sean
 Sugar Labs Marketing Coordinator




 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hmm I suppose the 1.x - 2.x switch would have not made sense to
 marketing because there wasn't major user visible changes?


 On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Yioryos Asprobounitis wrote:



 For sugar developers their is certainly a continuation in development
 and the current numbering makes a lot of sense.
 However, looking from outside 0.102 should be Sugar 3.x where  1.x is
 the original, 2.x is the Gtk3/introspection move and now the html5/jc
 (online/ultrabook/tablet) version.
 If you actually consider 0.100 as 3.0 then it can go 3.2, 3.4 etc to
 keep up with current numbering.
 Should make marketing happy with minimal disruption.

 ___
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 Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel



 --
 Daniel Narvaez


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 --
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Re: [Sugar-devel] RFC: Make Sugar 0.102 = Sugar 1.0

[Sean DALY]

Actually, journalists who covered us in 2009 (and there were lots of
them) understood SoaS v1 Strawberry as our v1. This was by design.

It's for this reason, and that we have been in production for 7 years, that
I feel a v1 now would be a mistake.

Sean



On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:

 What about calling it 1.102 (tech version). That shouldn't come with any
 message attached... It would address the fact that we never released a 1.0
 without having PR consequences. Then when we figure out what 2.0 really
 means marketing wise, we can start releasing 2.x as you suggest...


 On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:

 If we are talking about a version number that might make it into a press
 release at some point, this is a marketing discussion so I have cc'd the
 list.

 As I've explained previously, the major issue with a v1 seven years after
 entering production is that it is incomprehensible. Non-techies (i.e.
 teachers) discovering Sugar will naturally assume there are 0 years of
 production behind it. Tech journalists will roll on the floor laughing at a
 Slashdot post e.g. Seven Years After OLPC's First Laptop, Sugar Reaches
 V1.

 We dealt with this problem when Sugar was numbered Sugar on a Stick v6
 was renamed Sugar on a Stick v1 Strawberry and the press responded to an
 easy-to-understand story - that SL had spun off from OLPC and had a first
 non-OLPC version available. That the technical version number of the
 underlying Sugar was different was made irrelevant.

 We need to do this again. The addition of browser support is a big deal.
 In my view Sugar should be publicly numbered v2, perhaps with a name i.e.
 Sugar v2 Online or Sugar v2 Tablet (or something - this needs marketing
 work), with a clear story: Sugar opens up a new direction after seven years
 of production.

 The existing technical version numbering system has the merit of being
 understandable to developers and the deployments community and could be
 associated internally with the public number, i.e. 2.102, 2.104 etc., which
 would not box us into a numbering system we can't market. Or perhaps become
 irrelevant as Daniel N has suggested if we go to continuous development
 mode.

 I have more grey hair than I did when I first proposed we go to v1 six
 years ago [1]...

 (!)

 So I think we are ready for v2.

 Sean.

 [1]
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/marketing/2008-November/000425.html




 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.orgwrote:

 We already have this discussion for Sugar 0.100,
 why not do it again? :)

 With more than 7 years of development and more than 2 million of users,
 probably we should accept a 1.0 version is deserved.

 With 6 months more, probably the web api will be more established,
 and we are not doing incompatible changes to the python api.

 Anybody have a Really Good Motive(r) to not do it?

 Gonzalo
 ___
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 --
 Daniel Narvaez


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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] RFC: Make Sugar 0.102 = Sugar 1.0

[Sean DALY]

Walter - my issue with a formal system is, it boxes us into numbers on a
timeframe - what we need from a marketing standpoint is to choose a number
that explains the story we will build. Both v2 and v3 are candidates to be
worked on for that story, where we can refer to v1 as Sugar in production
on millions of laptops.

My suggestion is to conserve the existing numbers behind the marketing
number, which could lead to i.e.

2.102
2.104
3.106 (major version number change based on marketing context)
3.108
3.110

Sean


Sean



On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:

 The other possibility is to multiply by 100, dropping the decimal
 point, .e.g., we just released Sugar 100 and are working on Sugar 102.

 -walter

 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  What about calling it 1.102 (tech version). That shouldn't come with any
  message attached... It would address the fact that we never released a
 1.0
  without having PR consequences. Then when we figure out what 2.0 really
  means marketing wise, we can start releasing 2.x as you suggest...
 
 
  On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:
 
  If we are talking about a version number that might make it into a press
  release at some point, this is a marketing discussion so I have cc'd the
  list.
 
  As I've explained previously, the major issue with a v1 seven years
 after
  entering production is that it is incomprehensible. Non-techies (i.e.
  teachers) discovering Sugar will naturally assume there are 0 years of
  production behind it. Tech journalists will roll on the floor laughing
 at a
  Slashdot post e.g. Seven Years After OLPC's First Laptop, Sugar Reaches
  V1.
 
  We dealt with this problem when Sugar was numbered Sugar on a Stick v6
 was
  renamed Sugar on a Stick v1 Strawberry and the press responded to an
  easy-to-understand story - that SL had spun off from OLPC and had a
 first
  non-OLPC version available. That the technical version number of the
  underlying Sugar was different was made irrelevant.
 
  We need to do this again. The addition of browser support is a big deal.
  In my view Sugar should be publicly numbered v2, perhaps with a name
 i.e.
  Sugar v2 Online or Sugar v2 Tablet (or something - this needs
 marketing
  work), with a clear story: Sugar opens up a new direction after seven
 years
  of production.
 
  The existing technical version numbering system has the merit of being
  understandable to developers and the deployments community and could be
  associated internally with the public number, i.e. 2.102, 2.104 etc.,
 which
  would not box us into a numbering system we can't market. Or perhaps
 become
  irrelevant as Daniel N has suggested if we go to continuous development
  mode.
 
  I have more grey hair than I did when I first proposed we go to v1 six
  years ago [1]...
 
  (!)
 
  So I think we are ready for v2.
 
  Sean.
 
  [1]
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/marketing/2008-November/000425.html
 
 
 
 
  On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org
 wrote:
 
  We already have this discussion for Sugar 0.100,
  why not do it again? :)
 
  With more than 7 years of development and more than 2 million of users,
  probably we should accept a 1.0 version is deserved.
 
  With 6 months more, probably the web api will be more established,
  and we are not doing incompatible changes to the python api.
 
  Anybody have a Really Good Motive(r) to not do it?
 
  Gonzalo
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  --
  Daniel Narvaez
 
 
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 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [Sugar-devel] RFC: Make Sugar 0.102 = Sugar 1.0

[Sean DALY]

Concerning keyboards, an interesting marketing case can be made for the
usefulness of a keyboard in writing and programming, and how handheld
devices are ill-suited to the task.

But, again, schools are massively dropping keyboard-equipped PCs of any
size for tablets. Not to mention OLPC...

Sean



On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:

 This is just a gut reaction but I feel we should think more in the Sugar
 online direction than in the Sugar on tablet one, at least as a first
 step. I'd love Sugar on tablet as anyone else but I feel it's somewhat
 unrealistic because it involves skills, moneys and partnerships we don't
 currently have.

 I also think we should not completely discard Sugar on netbooks (maybe
 ultrabooks feels less anachronistic? :P). The hybrids that are hitting the
 market lately might not be mature, cheap or extremely popular, but it's an
 interesting direction to explore ... Keyboards are not completely dead
 yet IMO!

 On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:

 If we are talking about a version number that might make it into a press
 release at some point, this is a marketing discussion so I have cc'd the
 list.

 As I've explained previously, the major issue with a v1 seven years after
 entering production is that it is incomprehensible. Non-techies (i.e.
 teachers) discovering Sugar will naturally assume there are 0 years of
 production behind it. Tech journalists will roll on the floor laughing at a
 Slashdot post e.g. Seven Years After OLPC's First Laptop, Sugar Reaches
 V1.

 We dealt with this problem when Sugar was numbered Sugar on a Stick v6
 was renamed Sugar on a Stick v1 Strawberry and the press responded to an
 easy-to-understand story - that SL had spun off from OLPC and had a first
 non-OLPC version available. That the technical version number of the
 underlying Sugar was different was made irrelevant.

 We need to do this again. The addition of browser support is a big deal.
 In my view Sugar should be publicly numbered v2, perhaps with a name i.e.
 Sugar v2 Online or Sugar v2 Tablet (or something - this needs marketing
 work), with a clear story: Sugar opens up a new direction after seven years
 of production.

 The existing technical version numbering system has the merit of being
 understandable to developers and the deployments community and could be
 associated internally with the public number, i.e. 2.102, 2.104 etc., which
 would not box us into a numbering system we can't market. Or perhaps become
 irrelevant as Daniel N has suggested if we go to continuous development
 mode.

 I have more grey hair than I did when I first proposed we go to v1 six
 years ago [1]...

 (!)

 So I think we are ready for v2.

 Sean.

 [1]
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/marketing/2008-November/000425.html




 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.orgwrote:

 We already have this discussion for Sugar 0.100,
 why not do it again? :)

 With more than 7 years of development and more than 2 million of users,
 probably we should accept a 1.0 version is deserved.

 With 6 months more, probably the web api will be more established,
 and we are not doing incompatible changes to the python api.

 Anybody have a Really Good Motive(r) to not do it?

 Gonzalo
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Re: [Sugar-devel] RFC: Make Sugar 0.102 = Sugar 1.0

[Sean DALY]

As I say, the name will need work. I just threw out Online and Tablet
off the top of my head.

Sean



On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote:

 Maybe Sugar Web instead of Sugar Online?
 We have web activities and Web Services in this release 

 Gonzalo


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.comwrote:

 This is just a gut reaction but I feel we should think more in the Sugar
 online direction than in the Sugar on tablet one, at least as a first
 step. I'd love Sugar on tablet as anyone else but I feel it's somewhat
 unrealistic because it involves skills, moneys and partnerships we don't
 currently have.

 I also think we should not completely discard Sugar on netbooks (maybe
 ultrabooks feels less anachronistic? :P). The hybrids that are hitting the
 market lately might not be mature, cheap or extremely popular, but it's an
 interesting direction to explore ... Keyboards are not completely dead
 yet IMO!

 On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:

 If we are talking about a version number that might make it into a press
 release at some point, this is a marketing discussion so I have cc'd the
 list.

 As I've explained previously, the major issue with a v1 seven years
 after entering production is that it is incomprehensible. Non-techies (i.e.
 teachers) discovering Sugar will naturally assume there are 0 years of
 production behind it. Tech journalists will roll on the floor laughing at a
 Slashdot post e.g. Seven Years After OLPC's First Laptop, Sugar Reaches
 V1.

 We dealt with this problem when Sugar was numbered Sugar on a Stick v6
 was renamed Sugar on a Stick v1 Strawberry and the press responded to an
 easy-to-understand story - that SL had spun off from OLPC and had a first
 non-OLPC version available. That the technical version number of the
 underlying Sugar was different was made irrelevant.

 We need to do this again. The addition of browser support is a big deal.
 In my view Sugar should be publicly numbered v2, perhaps with a name i.e.
 Sugar v2 Online or Sugar v2 Tablet (or something - this needs marketing
 work), with a clear story: Sugar opens up a new direction after seven years
 of production.

 The existing technical version numbering system has the merit of being
 understandable to developers and the deployments community and could be
 associated internally with the public number, i.e. 2.102, 2.104 etc., which
 would not box us into a numbering system we can't market. Or perhaps become
 irrelevant as Daniel N has suggested if we go to continuous development
 mode.

 I have more grey hair than I did when I first proposed we go to v1 six
 years ago [1]...

 (!)

 So I think we are ready for v2.

 Sean.

 [1]
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/marketing/2008-November/000425.html




 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.orgwrote:

 We already have this discussion for Sugar 0.100,
 why not do it again? :)

 With more than 7 years of development and more than 2 million of users,
 probably we should accept a 1.0 version is deserved.

 With 6 months more, probably the web api will be more established,
 and we are not doing incompatible changes to the python api.

 Anybody have a Really Good Motive(r) to not do it?

 Gonzalo
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] RFC: Make Sugar 0.102 = Sugar 1.0

[Sean DALY]

Apple went numbers+names for OS X, but chose numbers only for iOS - likely
because the look and feel changes so little across versions.

Sean



On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:07 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:

 Do we need to indicate progression? It doesn't seem to be an issue for OS
 X for example (though Apple went with numbers for iOS, I sort of wonder the
 reason of the difference). Anyway I don't really have a strong opinion
 about number vs name for marketing version, I will be happy with whatever
 marketing team think it's best :)

 On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Gonzalo Odiard wrote:

 As said before, a name only, is not good to indicate progression
 (at least the name is The Third and so :)

 Gonzalo


 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:00 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.comwrote:

  I agree marketing version should be an integer or a name. Actually I
 like the idea of a name, it would make the separation between developer and
 marketing version more clear. But that's up to marketing really :)


 On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Sameer Verma wrote:

 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  The other possibility is to multiply by 100, dropping the decimal
  point, .e.g., we just released Sugar 100 and are working on Sugar 102.
 
  -walter

 I did this a couple of times on Twitter, but I like it!

 I had a chat with my wife this morning about version numbers. She is
 very non-technical (she's an office manager), and she completely
 didn't get the decimal thing. She said, give it a name or give it a
 number. If you want to address perceptions of the population at large
 (outside of our bubble), then go with what people can understand.

 Here are some interesting perspectives:

 http://www.pragmaticmarketing.com/resources/version-numbers-and-project-names
 http://technologizer.com/2009/07/14/version-numbers/
 http://ruthlesslyhelpful.net/2012/03/05/build-numbering-and-versioning/

 and of course, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_versioning

 cheers,
 Sameer

 
  On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  What about calling it 1.102 (tech version). That shouldn't come with
 any
  message attached... It would address the fact that we never released
 a 1.0
  without having PR consequences. Then when we figure out what 2.0
 really
  means marketing wise, we can start releasing 2.x as you suggest...
 
 
  On Thursday, 7 November 2013, Sean DALY wrote:
 
  If we are talking about a version number that might make it into a
 press
  release at some point, this is a marketing discussion so I have cc'd
 the
  list.
 
  As I've explained previously, the major issue with a v1 seven years
 after
  entering production is that it is incomprehensible. Non-techies (i.e.
  teachers) discovering Sugar will naturally assume there are 0 years
 of
  production behind it. Tech journalists will roll on the floor
 laughing at a
  Slashdot post e.g. Seven Years After OLPC's First Laptop, Sugar
 Reaches
  V1.
 
  We dealt with this problem when Sugar was numbered Sugar on a Stick
 v6 was
  renamed Sugar on a Stick v1 Strawberry and the press responded to
 an
  easy-to-understand story - that SL had spun off from OLPC and had a
 first
  non-OLPC version available. That the technical version number of the
  underlying Sugar was different was made irrelevant.
 
  We need to do this again. The addition of browser support is a big
 deal.
  In my view Sugar should be publicly numbered v2, perhaps with a name
 i.e.
  Sugar v2 Online or Sugar v2 Tablet (or something - this needs
 marketing
  work), with a clear story: Sugar opens up a new direction after
 seven years
  of production.
 
  The existing technical version numbering system has the merit of
 being
  understandable to developers and the deployments community and could
 be
  associated internally with the public number, i.e. 2.102, 2.104
 etc., which
  would not box us into a numbering system we can't market. Or perhaps
 become
  irrelevant as Daniel N has suggested if we go to continuous
 development
  mode.
 
  I have more grey hair than I did when I first proposed we go to v1
 six
  years ago [1]...
 
  (!)
 
  So I think we are ready for v2.
 
  Sean.
 
  [1]
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/marketing/2008-November/000425.html
 
 
 
 
  On

 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing




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Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [Sur] Sugar oversight board meeting

[Sean DALY]

On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.comwrote:

 But you have for a long time refused to actually even market SoaS!


That's right, at the time SoaS became an official Fedora spin, Mel and
Sebastian decided to take over marketing, which included coming up with
unmarketable names, linking with Fedora announcements, and opening a Fedora
hosted minisite (the home of SoaS), none of which was done with any
consultation of the SL marketing team.

This wiped out a year and a half of hard work on my part and others who
were successfully building SoaS as the pillar of our marketing strategy,
cf. BBC coverage etc. We had been marketing SoaS as a concept - Sugar on
OLPC now available on a $5 stick. Mel's approach was to turn SoaS into an
example of how Fedora was well-suited as a technical platform for themed
spins - certainly true, but of no interest to teachers. Unfortunately, key
components for a smooth teacher experience - an up-to-date liveUSB
installer, Sugar branded first-run screens such as Trisquel - became more,
not less difficult to create with the spin status.

Of course, this wasn't the only effort by community members to lay claim to
SoaS; a former contributor had even registered a domain name and built a
separate SoaS minisite, hoping to obtain exclusive distribution rights, and
only closed the site under pressure.

In traditional free software projects, engineers make the decisions then
communicate (usually quite late in the process) with their marketers. This
is almost completely ineffective, which is why I wasn't prepared to
contribute time and expertise under those conditions.

The several thousand USD I had contributed to seed the marketing effort
(remember the branded USB sticks?) had allowed us to obtain excellent
results, however as of two years ago I've been unable to continue that
financing for personal reasons.

Looking forward, I myself feel prebuilt VMs with pancake installers for
Windows, OSX and GNU/Linux (including SoaS images cf. [1]) would be our
best bet to offer a Sugar experience to interested teachers. I use a
VirtualBox VM on a Mac when I present Sugar to audiences, and it works very
well, inheriting network connections, fullscreen etc. Of course, the
downside is enormous download images, and I don't underestimate the work
and infrastructure required to keep a matrix of images available.

So yes Peter, I salute your hard work on SoaS; for want of a better
strategy it has even been kept on the SL homepage for three years. However,
for SoaS to aid SL in raising awareness, allowing teachers to overcome the
installation and unfamiliarity barriers, and providing a path to non-OLPC
hardware in a world massively dropping the PC for tablets, additional
teacher-friendly components are necessary and the marketing needs to be
done by marketers.

Sean
Sugar Labs Marketing Coordinator

P.S. I'm quite interested in your proposals concerning ARM boxes; I have
always maintained that a non-OLPC OEM deal would allow us to bypass the
installation barrier. That said, my interest in the Raspberry Pi is from a
marketing standpoint - they have over a million sold, corporate
sponsorships in the UK, wide press coverage, retail distributors, only one
official SD card OS for non-advanced users, and are seeking education
partners to better reach students.

1. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Virtual_machines
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Sur] Sugar oversight board meeting

[Sean DALY]

Gonzalo - I'm sorry, I was unable to attend the SLOBs meeting today.

There are issues with doing PR about the release

* It's not clear to me where we are going. The OLPC/Sugar development
ecosystem seems to be at a crossroads. I am encouraged by the web activity
work, but don't understand the path of transposing the value proposition of
Sugar (interface, Journal, collaboration, Activities) to handheld tactile
devices (tablets to smartphones). PCs (of any size) with keyboards are no
longer competitive with tablets for grade-school classroom use. Perhaps the
XO-4 could still be in the running; there is no clear message from OLPC.

* Our target market, the ten million or so grade-school teachers worldwide,
can't benefit from the release; there are no installers. There are detailed
instructions for using virtualization on the wiki thanks to satellit, and
the consistently good work of probinson on SoaS, but the release itself
won't be news if no one can use it.


For these reasons (as mentioned on the marketing list) an
Activity/pedagogical focus is a safe bet. Unfortunately our Turtle Art Day
PR flopped because publication of the Spanish PR was delayed by two days
(technical bottleneck which I very much hope we will be able to solve). The
PR will however fulfill its role of background for interested journalists (
www.sugarlabs.org/press). I haven't expected any wider press coverage for
some time now, since we don't have any easy-to-try products available and
OLPC's press communications are meant to imply that laptops are out and the
Android tablet is in, leaving Sugar in limbo. An easy installation  use
procedure for Sugar on Android or the Raspberry Pi could have major press
impact, but I don't know how near or far we are from those.

The upcoming TA Days and internationalization work grant will give us ample
opportunity to mention the release, but we need to know where we are going
if we hope to get a message out on that topic.

Sean




On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 12:34 AM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote:

 One topic to add could be do a PR about our recent sugar 0.100 release.

 Gonzalo

 On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  We have a SLOB meeting scheduled for Monday, 4 November at 9AM EST
  (2PM GMT). Please join us on irc.freenode.net #sugar-meeting
  (chat.sugarlabs.org)
 
  Tenemos una reunión SLOB programada para el lunes, 4 de noviembre a 09
  a.m. EST (14:00 GMT). Por favor, únase a nosotros en irc.freenode.net
  #-sugar-meeting (chat.sugarlabs.org)
 
  Topics:
 
  (1) election
  (2) ambassadors
  (3) tech/learning meetups
  (4) status of Trip Advisor grant
  (5) Google Code In
  (6) your topic here...
 
  -walter
 
  --
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  Sugar Labs
  http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] Sugar 0.100 or 1.0

[Sean DALY]

We can't go with 1.0 unless we change the numbering system.

The current system means it will take another decade to get to v3.0. I and
perhaps others will have far more grey hair by then.

I proposed several years ago that the developer version numbers (not to
mention the OLPC OS version numbers) be separated from the marketing
version numbers, since the dev version numbers are unmarketable. Developer
resistance at the time was ferocious, a symptom of how marketing is widely
considered irrelevant in the F/LOSS universe.

We therefore reoriented version numbering for Sugar on a Stick v6, which
we rebaptized v1 Strawberry. This strategy helped us obtain very wide
press coverage at the time, since journalists and analysts (as intended)
understood that release as Sugar v1, a year after the spinoff from OLPC.
This was appropriate, because Sugar was already shipping in production to
hundreds of thousands of children.

Today, communicating a v1 of Sugar is problematic, *unless* it is
associated with a platform change, e.g. the transition to HTML-based (and
ultimately Android-compatible) Activities; or presented as positioning
Sugar for tablets; our narrative would be a fresh start.

In terms of timing, it's far more important to offer real change with a v1
than to meet a self-imposed deadline; if more time is needed, by all means
it should be taken. A functioning HTML5 based toolkit, adapting to the form
factor change towards tablets, Android compatibility (whatever form that
may take), perhaps even an OEM partnership with Raspberry Pi Foundation or
Google (Chromebook) or a social media giant, would not only greatly raise
awareness, but provide a springboard for serious funding.

At the same time, it will be vital to communicate our level of ongoing
support (in the wide sense) to the existing installed base which of course
will include the XO-4 recipients as it starts shipping.

I feel that 0.100 is even more unmarketable than 0.98. However, as a
developer version number tucked away under the hood, I'd have no objection
to that if it is helpful to getting the job done while a more
understandable number is communicated to press and analysts.

Sean
Sugar Labs Marketing Coordinator





On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:

 Perfection is the enemy of the good.

 On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:07 AM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Hello,
 
  we need to decide if we want the next release to be 1.0 or 0.100.
 
  Here is the features we are planning for it.
 
  * Develop an HTML5 based toolkit for activities
 
  * Multiple selection in the Journal
  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Multi_selection
 
  * Enhanced support for 3G modems
  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/3G_Support/Database_Support
 
  * Background customization
  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Background_image_on_home_view
 
  * Multiple home views
  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Multiple_home_views
 
  * Integration with web services
  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Web_services
 
  * Journal comments box
  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Comment_box_in_journal_detail_view
 
  * Icon customization
  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Icon_Change
 
 
  It's a bit of weird situation because code wise we are not really 1.0
 ready.
  We are developing a new toolkit and the old one could use an API
 cleanup. On
  the other hand we are deployed to millions of users.
 
  Personally I don't really have a strong feeling. If the marketing team
 sees
  an opportunity in a 1.0 in October with the above feature list I'd say
 to go
  ahead with it even if from a developer point of view we are not ready.
  Otherwise we could delay it at least another cycle.

 I think the marketing team had already reached consensus about 1.0.
 But maybe Sean can chime in.


 
  --
  Daniel Narvaez
 
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 Plus, I think .100 is confusing.

 -walter

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar future (was Re: Re: [DESIGN] Single instance activities)

[Sean DALY]

Daniel - thanks for that

cc'ing the IAEP list, since the topic of the future of Sugar is I believe
of general interest to developer and non-developer contributors alike.

Porting Sugar to Android was identified at the beginning of the year by the
Oversight Board as a strategic goal for Sugar Labs. There are several good
reasons for this. One is that sales of the classic PC platform - a computer
with a keyboard and mouse, 98% of which run a version of Microsoft Windows,
and most of which are theoretically capable of running a GNU/Linux
distribution - are in freefall (IDC reported last week -14% PC shipments,
the single worst quarterly decline since PC industry tracking began).
Another reason is that sales of handheld touch devices, the majority of
which run a version of Android, are booming. These situations are of course
related. The education market is a reflection of the wider market. As for
emerging markets, recent estimates from IDC predict emerging market tablet
sales will rise +60% in 2013, smartphones +35%, laptops +4% and desktops
off -4%. The ITU currently estimates 934 million active mobile-broadband
subscriptions for 2013 in developing countries; in Africa, there are 10 for
every 100 inhabitants. The overwhelming majority of these are running
Android (Apple iOS is marginal in emerging markets). It's not unreasonable
to suppose that educational software for Android could easily be made
available to 25 million children in developing countries.

The initial work seems very encouraging, yet it seems Sugar Labs doesn't
currently have the resources to make an Android offer available anytime
soon. But: now is the time. I believe fundraising is vital to achieve this
goal, at the very least to facilitate face to face Sugar Camps for the
community. I have ideas how to go about this, but I agree the community
needs to be clear about where we are going. An Android offer would of
course be of great interest to OLPC.

There are also initiatives we could take to multiply the size of the
community. In particular, support for the Raspberry Pi (which has topped 1
million units in sales - half of these since September -, is shipped
without an OS, and is arriving in junior high and high school computer
science classes) could be an ideal OEM platform for Sugar.

Sean
Sugar Labs Marketing Coordinator


On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.comwrote:

 On 12 April 2013 00:17, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:

 Hi

 When the XO was first designed it was an open choice for operating
 system, desktop and file manager. Some innovative choices were made to
 optimise the experience of new young users. Some I think were good, some
 bad.

 I think Android is the likely educational future. It is not an open
 choice like the XO. We do not control the OS and are unlikely to be able to
 control the desktop, file manager or Activity installation.

 I ask, what are the really important features of Sugar in this situation?
 Is it just the suite of Activities? Collaboration? What role do we see for
 Sugarlabs looking forward?


 IMO taken alone the Sugar features are not worth much. A suite of
 activities using a well designed, consistent UI paradigm, have some more
 value. If they all use a powerful collaboration framework, even more. Etc.

 I don't think Android is necessarily the future. It's really hard to make
 such predictions. Though, realistically, I don't see how we could get in a
 situation where we can control hardware and OS again in the foreseeable
 future. Perhaps the challenge is to figure out how to make the most
 important Sugar features possible in this new context. And while at it
 reevaluating some of the original choices.

 The HTML activities effort is going in that direction. I don't know if
 it's the best possible approach, but it's a try to address the problem you
 are pointing out.

 I wish I'd see the community

 * Acknowledge that we have a major issue
 * Analyze it and try to figure out solutions
 * Work on them together

 I'm not seeing any of those, if not in a few individuals, and that worries
 me. Maybe people don't care or maybe there is a lack of leadership... I
 don't know.

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