Re: [Sugar-devel] Dictionary everywhere ?
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 01:42, S Page skierp...@gmail.com wrote: There are a dozen dictionary extensions for Firefox, do any of those work in Browse? http://www.dailyblogtips.com/dictionary-extensions-for-firefox/ and comments mention a few. Extensions that don't use anything firefox-specific can be used in Browse (google gears, for example). Regards, Tomeu 3) Language detection. The HTML lang attribute? 95% of everything will be browser-based in the near future. Cheers, -- =S Page ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Dictionary everywhere ?
There are a dozen dictionary extensions for Firefox, do any of those work in Browse? http://www.dailyblogtips.com/dictionary-extensions-for-firefox/ and comments mention a few. 3) Language detection. The HTML lang attribute? 95% of everything will be browser-based in the near future. Cheers, -- =S Page ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Dictionary everywhere ?
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 00:06, Sayamindu Dasgupta sayami...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Based on comments raised in this thread and during yesterday's design meeting, I have made some changes: video at http://people.sugarlabs.org/sayamindu/global_dictionary_second_try.ogv In case of multiple selections, the words are no longer in the form of a set of hyperlinks, one can choose the dictionary from which the definition is to be retrieved and also the definition is made a bit more pleasing to the eye (with some really ugly hacks) :) Could someone take care of relaying this to olpc-sur and asking for opinions there? And, of course, to other interested communities as well. There were some more interesting ideas yesterday, especially Christian's ideas on providing machine-translation for sentences/phrases. However, I tried out Apertium, and somehow did not like the results. We can probably query Google's translation engine, but that would be a proprietary backend and also would require internet access. Some issues that need to be addressed: 1) Hyperlinking inside the definitions and providing a back button (for See also: kind of terms). This simply needs some more coding, and some ideas on where to put the back button. 2) Stemming. Some words (eg: hurried) are not in the dictionary. In such a case, do we perform some kind of stemming on the word ? This does make things more complicated, but it would let us provide more definitions. There are many stemming libraries available, though may not be a single one that covers all languages we are interested in. Regards, Tomeu 3) Language detection. I stated in one of the previous mails in this thread that this would be difficult, but a friend of mine has been working in this area (http://smc.org.in/silpa/Guess_Language), and he has achieved some really good results already. If required, we can reuse his work. Thanks, Sayamindu On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:40 AM, Sayamindu Dasgupta sayami...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I was wondering about having a global dictionary key in sugar, just like the view source key. When you select a word (or words), and press that key, a window should pop up, showing the meaning of that word (or those words). There can be a control panel entry to choose what dictionary to use (eg: someone might want to have a English-Spanish dictionary instead of a English-English one, etc). I did a bit of hacking last weekend to come up with a rough mockup for the feature. There's a screencast at http://people.sugarlabs.org/sayamindu/global_dictionary.ogv (it works with all activities, and not just with Browse - and the window pops up when I press the key) Does it make sense for Sugar ? If it does, I think I can beat it into shape over the next few weekends. Thanks, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Dictionary everywhere ?
Hello, Based on comments raised in this thread and during yesterday's design meeting, I have made some changes: video at http://people.sugarlabs.org/sayamindu/global_dictionary_second_try.ogv In case of multiple selections, the words are no longer in the form of a set of hyperlinks, one can choose the dictionary from which the definition is to be retrieved and also the definition is made a bit more pleasing to the eye (with some really ugly hacks) :) There were some more interesting ideas yesterday, especially Christian's ideas on providing machine-translation for sentences/phrases. However, I tried out Apertium, and somehow did not like the results. We can probably query Google's translation engine, but that would be a proprietary backend and also would require internet access. Some issues that need to be addressed: 1) Hyperlinking inside the definitions and providing a back button (for See also: kind of terms). This simply needs some more coding, and some ideas on where to put the back button. 2) Stemming. Some words (eg: hurried) are not in the dictionary. In such a case, do we perform some kind of stemming on the word ? This does make things more complicated, but it would let us provide more definitions. 3) Language detection. I stated in one of the previous mails in this thread that this would be difficult, but a friend of mine has been working in this area (http://smc.org.in/silpa/Guess_Language), and he has achieved some really good results already. If required, we can reuse his work. Thanks, Sayamindu On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:40 AM, Sayamindu Dasgupta sayami...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I was wondering about having a global dictionary key in sugar, just like the view source key. When you select a word (or words), and press that key, a window should pop up, showing the meaning of that word (or those words). There can be a control panel entry to choose what dictionary to use (eg: someone might want to have a English-Spanish dictionary instead of a English-English one, etc). I did a bit of hacking last weekend to come up with a rough mockup for the feature. There's a screencast at http://people.sugarlabs.org/sayamindu/global_dictionary.ogv (it works with all activities, and not just with Browse - and the window pops up when I press the key) Does it make sense for Sugar ? If it does, I think I can beat it into shape over the next few weekends. Thanks, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Dictionary everywhere ?
On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 4:11 AM, Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org wrote:
On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 06:21:43PM +0530, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote:
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote:
I'd prefer to see all meanings for a word within the set of
dictionaries chosen. If you are learning two langs, you should see
relevant words in both languages when you select a string.
SJ
Well - we can let the user choose multiple dictionaries if we want.
Does that make sense ?
are you planing to reuse code of others projects like {Golden|Star|etc}Dict?
I mean it should be a good idea to support the whole variety(as possible)
of dictionary formats and let user download dicts for example from
http://xdxf.revdanica.com/down/index.php
The dictionary database I used in the prototype code used the
dictionary format used by the dictd server.
Thanks,
Sayamindu
--
Sayamindu Dasgupta
[http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings]
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Dictionary everywhere ?
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:51 AM, sankarshan foss.mailingli...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:40 AM, Sayamindu Dasgupta sayami...@gmail.com wrote: I was wondering about having a global dictionary key in sugar, just like the view source key. When you select a word (or words), and press that key, a window should pop up, showing the meaning of that word (or those words). There can be a control panel entry to choose what dictionary to use (eg: someone might want to have a English-Spanish dictionary instead of a English-English one, etc). Looks like good to have. I take it that you are suggesting that the source - target pattern for the dictionary be set only once and, then on unless changed, adhered to throughout. I daresay that I'd find it a wonderful application for a non-Sugar desktop too :) Yes - source target pattern would need to be set manually. It would be infinitely cooler if language detection could be done somehow, but I don't think that is feasible in the short term. -sdg- -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Dictionary everywhere ?
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 7:38 AM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: I was wondering about having a global dictionary key in sugar, just like the view source key. When you select a word (or words), and press that key, a window should pop up, showing the meaning of that word (or those words). I think it's a great idea, very much in the spirit of the the Sugar UI design. I see a strong parallel to the proposed Text to Speech function, which would allow a user to highlight any text and then ask Sugar to pronounce it, or type text into a field provided by a frame device. In fact, I think that the Dictionary should also be a frame device, and the popup window should be a notification palette connected to that device. Sounds like a good idea. I think we can discuss this during the next design meeting. The question of key bindings is very interesting. In both cases, the functionality is useful to many users, but not all, so assigning a permanent binding seems excessive. However, clicking through the frame greatly increases the effort needed to use the feature. As a compromise, perhaps we can assign keyboard shortcuts of the form Frame key+letter to frame devices. This formula seems clarifying to the user, while also avoiding the hotly contested Ctrl- and Alt- shortcut spaces. At the moment, the implementation has been done in the lines of view source, but I think that having a frame object also would increase the discoverability of the feature as well. Thanks, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Dictionary everywhere ?
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 02:10, Sayamindu Dasgupta sayami...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I was wondering about having a global dictionary key in sugar, just like the view source key. When you select a word (or words), and press that key, a window should pop up, showing the meaning of that word (or those words). There can be a control panel entry to choose what dictionary to use (eg: someone might want to have a English-Spanish dictionary instead of a English-English one, etc). I did a bit of hacking last weekend to come up with a rough mockup for the feature. There's a screencast at http://people.sugarlabs.org/sayamindu/global_dictionary.ogv (it works with all activities, and not just with Browse - and the window pops up when I press the key) Does it make sense for Sugar ? If it does, I think I can beat it into shape over the next few weekends. Looks really great, congrats! Thank you very much :) I'm adding it to the topics of the next design meeting, which may be next weekend. Sounds good. I am looking forward to some ideas about the UI. Btw, which external dependencies brings? How would it work in multilingual environments? Right now I am using python-dictdlib[1] to get the definitions from a dictd formatted database[2]. It may probably make sense to turn the definition and dictionary management part into a desktop independent dbus based library, and have a sugar control panel extension and a globalkey/deviceicon extension to leverage that. Alternatively, we can also consider using a web-based approach, where we query dict.org (this means that we won't have to ship the large dictionary dumps) - but I don't want to rely on a internet connection being present for this feature to be usable. As for multilingual environments, I propose to have a control panel extension which would let the user choose which dictionary to use. I think would be similar to the speech module: http://interdimensionmedia.com/scratch/settings-10.jpg Thanks, Sayamindu [1] http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/python-dictdlib [2] http://www.dict.org/w/databases/start -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Dictionary everywhere ?
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 13:27, Sayamindu Dasgupta sayami...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 02:10, Sayamindu Dasgupta sayami...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I was wondering about having a global dictionary key in sugar, just like the view source key. When you select a word (or words), and press that key, a window should pop up, showing the meaning of that word (or those words). There can be a control panel entry to choose what dictionary to use (eg: someone might want to have a English-Spanish dictionary instead of a English-English one, etc). I did a bit of hacking last weekend to come up with a rough mockup for the feature. There's a screencast at http://people.sugarlabs.org/sayamindu/global_dictionary.ogv (it works with all activities, and not just with Browse - and the window pops up when I press the key) Does it make sense for Sugar ? If it does, I think I can beat it into shape over the next few weekends. Looks really great, congrats! Thank you very much :) I'm adding it to the topics of the next design meeting, which may be next weekend. Sounds good. I am looking forward to some ideas about the UI. Btw, which external dependencies brings? How would it work in multilingual environments? Right now I am using python-dictdlib[1] to get the definitions from a dictd formatted database[2]. It may probably make sense to turn the definition and dictionary management part into a desktop independent dbus based library, and have a sugar control panel extension and a globalkey/deviceicon extension to leverage that. Alternatively, we can also consider using a web-based approach, where we query dict.org (this means that we won't have to ship the large dictionary dumps) - but I don't want to rely on a internet connection being present for this feature to be usable. As for multilingual environments, I propose to have a control panel extension which would let the user choose which dictionary to use. I think would be similar to the speech module: http://interdimensionmedia.com/scratch/settings-10.jpg Wouldn't be a bit uncomfortable for bilingual people or those learning a new language? Or are you suggesting that in the control panel you would set the languages you will use and then in the alert you would choose the current one? Regards, Tomeu Thanks, Sayamindu [1] http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/python-dictdlib [2] http://www.dict.org/w/databases/start -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Dictionary everywhere ?
I'd prefer to see all meanings for a word within the set of dictionaries chosen. If you are learning two langs, you should see relevant words in both languages when you select a string. SJ On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 7:35 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 13:27, Sayamindu Dasgupta sayami...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 02:10, Sayamindu Dasgupta sayami...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I was wondering about having a global dictionary key in sugar, just like the view source key. When you select a word (or words), and press that key, a window should pop up, showing the meaning of that word (or those words). There can be a control panel entry to choose what dictionary to use (eg: someone might want to have a English-Spanish dictionary instead of a English-English one, etc). I did a bit of hacking last weekend to come up with a rough mockup for the feature. There's a screencast at http://people.sugarlabs.org/sayamindu/global_dictionary.ogv (it works with all activities, and not just with Browse - and the window pops up when I press the key) Does it make sense for Sugar ? If it does, I think I can beat it into shape over the next few weekends. Looks really great, congrats! Thank you very much :) I'm adding it to the topics of the next design meeting, which may be next weekend. Sounds good. I am looking forward to some ideas about the UI. Btw, which external dependencies brings? How would it work in multilingual environments? Right now I am using python-dictdlib[1] to get the definitions from a dictd formatted database[2]. It may probably make sense to turn the definition and dictionary management part into a desktop independent dbus based library, and have a sugar control panel extension and a globalkey/deviceicon extension to leverage that. Alternatively, we can also consider using a web-based approach, where we query dict.org (this means that we won't have to ship the large dictionary dumps) - but I don't want to rely on a internet connection being present for this feature to be usable. As for multilingual environments, I propose to have a control panel extension which would let the user choose which dictionary to use. I think would be similar to the speech module: http://interdimensionmedia.com/scratch/settings-10.jpg Wouldn't be a bit uncomfortable for bilingual people or those learning a new language? Or are you suggesting that in the control panel you would set the languages you will use and then in the alert you would choose the current one? Regards, Tomeu Thanks, Sayamindu [1] http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/python-dictdlib [2] http://www.dict.org/w/databases/start -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Dictionary everywhere ?
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote: I'd prefer to see all meanings for a word within the set of dictionaries chosen. If you are learning two langs, you should see relevant words in both languages when you select a string. SJ Well - we can let the user choose multiple dictionaries if we want. Does that make sense ? Thanks, Sayamindu On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 7:35 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 13:27, Sayamindu Dasgupta sayami...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 02:10, Sayamindu Dasgupta sayami...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I was wondering about having a global dictionary key in sugar, just like the view source key. When you select a word (or words), and press that key, a window should pop up, showing the meaning of that word (or those words). There can be a control panel entry to choose what dictionary to use (eg: someone might want to have a English-Spanish dictionary instead of a English-English one, etc). I did a bit of hacking last weekend to come up with a rough mockup for the feature. There's a screencast at http://people.sugarlabs.org/sayamindu/global_dictionary.ogv (it works with all activities, and not just with Browse - and the window pops up when I press the key) Does it make sense for Sugar ? If it does, I think I can beat it into shape over the next few weekends. Looks really great, congrats! Thank you very much :) I'm adding it to the topics of the next design meeting, which may be next weekend. Sounds good. I am looking forward to some ideas about the UI. Btw, which external dependencies brings? How would it work in multilingual environments? Right now I am using python-dictdlib[1] to get the definitions from a dictd formatted database[2]. It may probably make sense to turn the definition and dictionary management part into a desktop independent dbus based library, and have a sugar control panel extension and a globalkey/deviceicon extension to leverage that. Alternatively, we can also consider using a web-based approach, where we query dict.org (this means that we won't have to ship the large dictionary dumps) - but I don't want to rely on a internet connection being present for this feature to be usable. As for multilingual environments, I propose to have a control panel extension which would let the user choose which dictionary to use. I think would be similar to the speech module: http://interdimensionmedia.com/scratch/settings-10.jpg Wouldn't be a bit uncomfortable for bilingual people or those learning a new language? Or are you suggesting that in the control panel you would set the languages you will use and then in the alert you would choose the current one? Regards, Tomeu Thanks, Sayamindu [1] http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/python-dictdlib [2] http://www.dict.org/w/databases/start -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Dictionary everywhere ?
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:40 AM, Sayamindu Dasgupta sayami...@gmail.com wrote: I was wondering about having a global dictionary key in sugar, just like the view source key. When you select a word (or words), and press that key, a window should pop up, showing the meaning of that word (or those words). There can be a control panel entry to choose what dictionary to use (eg: someone might want to have a English-Spanish dictionary instead of a English-English one, etc). Looks like good to have. I take it that you are suggesting that the source - target pattern for the dictionary be set only once and, then on unless changed, adhered to throughout. I daresay that I'd find it a wonderful application for a non-Sugar desktop too :) -- http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work Sent from Pune, MH, India ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Dictionary everywhere ?
Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: I was wondering about having a global dictionary key in sugar, just like the view source key. When you select a word (or words), and press that key, a window should pop up, showing the meaning of that word (or those words). I think it's a great idea, very much in the spirit of the the Sugar UI design. I see a strong parallel to the proposed Text to Speech function, which would allow a user to highlight any text and then ask Sugar to pronounce it, or type text into a field provided by a frame device. In fact, I think that the Dictionary should also be a frame device, and the popup window should be a notification palette connected to that device. The question of key bindings is very interesting. In both cases, the functionality is useful to many users, but not all, so assigning a permanent binding seems excessive. However, clicking through the frame greatly increases the effort needed to use the feature. As a compromise, perhaps we can assign keyboard shortcuts of the form Frame key+letter to frame devices. This formula seems clarifying to the user, while also avoiding the hotly contested Ctrl- and Alt- shortcut spaces. --Ben signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
