Re: [Sugar-devel] Phonology (was Re: Fwd: Summer of Code Proposal: Furthering Speech Recognition in Sugar.)

2009-03-24 Thread C. Scott Ananian
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:
 :-)

 I'm no linguist, but we speak 3 languages in the house and I have been
 fascinated to observe that my kids seem to borrow phonemes between
 languages. I met somebody at a party once who said that has been
 documented in bi- and tri-lingual children, apparently as a way of
 economizing brainpower when small (6 y.o.) Not sure how
 authoritative a party person is, though.

My second-hand oral story from a linguist is similar, and ties in
with Noam Chomsky's theories of universal grammar: very young children
apparently are born with a remarkable ability to distinguish phones
from all known languages, and as you age the brain starts to learn
which distinctions are meaningful and to forget the unmeaningful
distinctions, presumably in order to reinforce recognition of the
remaining meaningful distinctions.  Hence a small child will be able
to distinguish between 'r' and 'l' and between 'k' and 'kh', an
ability which grown up Japanese- and English-speakers (respectively)
have lost.

Your story seems to deal with the flip side of this: the ability to
articulate (or not) those distinctions.  There's an interesting bit of
optimality theory/phonology about the markedness of various sounds:
universally across languages some sounds (and syllable structures!)
are more basic and others more complicated.  Children usually
progress in a straightforward order from unmarked through marked
structures as they learn: for example, vowel-consonant syllables like
ma as less marked than consonant-vowel-consonant syllables like
dad, which are less marked than syllables with complex consonant
clusters like schmooze.  Perhaps your kids are borrowing less-marked
alternatives from their other languages as a handy substitute for the
marked element they can't quite get their tongues around yet.
 --scott

(As an obligatory comp sci aside: one of my favorite projects when I
was a comp sci graduate student studying phonology was a set of
processing scripts which grunged through the entire contents of
Project Gutenberg analyzing poetry slant rhymes for quantitative
evidence to support the markedness of certain phonological structures.
 The theory went that, given a non-exact rhyme, a poet should prefer
those which differ in unmarked qualities over those which differ in
marked qualitities.  http://cscott.net/Publications/proj4.pdf )

-- 
 ( http://cscott.net/ )
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[Sugar-devel] Phonology (was Re: Fwd: Summer of Code Proposal: Furthering Speech Recognition in Sugar.)

2009-03-23 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:
 Greetings Satya,

 I seem to remember reading that most of the world's
 languages draw from a pool of only 50-60 phonemes.

This turns out not to be the case. Individual languages commonly have
that many. English by itself has between 40 and 50 phonemes in
different dialects. Hindi/Urdu has a similar number.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_phonology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi-Urdu_phonology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipa#Description

Among the symbols of the IPA, 107 represent consonants and vowels, 31
are diacritics that are used to further specify these sounds, and 19
are used to indicate such qualities as length, tone, stress, and
intonation.
-- 
Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
And Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
http://earthtreasury.net/ (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
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