Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Share sugar objects on a standalone server
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 16:49, Aleksey Lim wrote: > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 03:42:57PM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote: >> On 17 Jul 2009, at 10:11, Aleksey Lim wrote: >> >> >On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:48:10AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> >>On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 04:43, Aleksey >> >>Lim wrote: >> >>>On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 03:11:15AM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote: >> On 17 Jul 2009, at 02:21, Aleksey Lim wrote: >> >> >On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 08:03:15PM -0500, David Farning wrote: >> >>On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Aleksey >> >>Lim wrote: >> >>>On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 12:17:13AM +, Aleksey Lim wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> One of lacks that sugar environment has is simple way to >> share sugar >> objects for broad audience i.e. like scratch community has[1] >> (thanks to davidmorris form #sugar). >> >> So, I've created [2]. Original idea was having highly >> integrated sharing >> features into sugar shell but looks like we can do simple >> things first >> and even utilize only Browse for browsing/download/upload >> sugar objects. >> >> The problem is - what web engine we should use. >> >> * Utilize AMO[3] engine which is used in >> activities.sugarlabs.org >> in that case we can create something like >> library.sugarlabs.org to not >> >>> >> >>>Pro: >> >>>* we do not split users behaviour, they need the same experience >> >>>that ASLO requires >> >>>* one common branding for activities and objects sites >> >>>* AMO has sufficient(imo) functionality - reviews, ranking, >> >>>collections >> >>>and thumbs mode >> >>>https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:2/cat:all?sort=popular >> >>>* we hack AMO code anyway - its not a problem in adding new >> >>>AMO environment >> >>> >> >>>Contra: >> >>* Locality - In may instances the stuff created by >> >>students will only >> >>be of interest to their friends, teachers, and parent. >> >>Serving via >> >>ASLO publishes the content globally. >> > >> >"publishes the content globally" is the original purpose for this >> >feature >> >in contrast with >> >http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Peer_to_Peer_Objects_Sharing >> > >> >Or you mean possibility to share objects on local servers? >> >> Would be really good if we could just get the uploading of Journal >> entries via Browse working reliably, right now it's only certain >> simple object types (png, pdf, etc) that work reasonably. >> >>> >> >>>What do you mean exactly? >> >>>Object chooser can pick any type of objects including >> >>>"anything" option. >> >> >> >>The root of the problem is that we are uploading files, not entries. >> >>Some activities store files in their entries in formats commonly used >> >>and known. But others will store a json file and after upload nobody >> >>knows what to do with it. >> >> >> >>The good news is that we have already a format for packaging full >> >>journal entries in zip files and after downloading such an entry >> >>bundle it will be expanded and restored in the journal will all the >> >>metadata, etc. >> >> +1, had this same thought last night :-) >> >> >>What we would need is for a simple way to upload these bundled >> >>entries >> >>instead of just the file. >> >> >> >>Any ideas about how would look the UI like? >> > >> >I'm thinking about implicit behaviour, >> >like while choosing objects for input fields in Browse >> >we can package chosen object to bundle >> >> As per my other email we currently have "Activities" and "Objects" >> in the Journal. Objects could be implicitly uploaded by Browse as >> regular files, > > Objects need to be bundled as well e.g. package tags that were added by > user after downloading this object to Journal. Agreed, would be a pity to lose the metadata. Also, when we have the separation between actions and objects, why would we be interested in sharing actions? Regards, Tomeu ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Share sugar objects on a standalone server
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Gary C Martin wrote: > Hi Caroline, > > On 17 Jul 2009, at 23:35, Caroline Meeks wrote: > > Ack! I posted this to the wrong thread! Sorry :( >> >> Here are some ideas for use cases that we might want to think through. >> >> Off the top of my head >> >>• Teacher shares a file with a class >>• Teacher shares a file or lesson plan or student work sample with >> other teachers >>• Student shares with classmate for peer review >>• Student shares with teacher for assessment (need an easy way for >> teachers to see all students work) >>• Student shares with outside world >>• Student shares with school community >>• Teacher or student gets an activity for Sugar >>• Teacher or Student learns what is possible with Sugar from >> examples >>• Students or classes of students collaobrate to co-create projects >> All different, but it would be good if the end users felt there was some >> consistent logic to how they did these tasks which may well be related in >> their minds. >> > > Could you list how a teacher/student currently accomplishes each of these > cases? I have my own guesses for most (I think most would usually involve a > school Windows file server and share disk space, or just not be allowed from > the school point of view), but wanted to see if you have a list of current > approaches for these. At the GPA I think its not done at all. Kids use the computer lab for an hour a week and use a web site to play educational games. At LGF, they have macs and they have a web based class management system written by a programmer out in western MA. More or less like Moodle. I'm not sure how many of these use cases it supports. One high school I visited had a sign up in the computer lab reminding kids to email their work to themselves on their gmail accounts. My high schooler tends to use this technique also. Teachers sometimes have him email files to turn in assignments. I think in one class he used google docs. So I think email and web sites are the current way these tasks are done, in the rare instances they occur. I am copying Server Devel as I suspect our vision if for the XS will support many of these use cases. > > > Regards, > --Gary > > > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Edward Cherlin >> wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 7:11 PM, Gary C Martin >> wrote: >> >> > Test case: >> > 1) Create a new TurtleArt activity >> > 2) Upload the new entry to the SL wiki using Browse >> > 3) Use Browse to download the entry back to Journal >> > 4) Resume it from Journal >> >> Thanks. That's something I missed. I'll add it to [[The undiscoverable]]. >> >> However, when I tried uploading a TA session, the Wiki said, >> >> ".gtar" is not a permitted file type. >> >> Did we change from .tar.gz to .gtar in the Journal, or something like >> that, but not coordinate properly? >> >> > This should ideally work for all Activities, then folks can actually >> > start creating and distributing content/activities directly using >> > Sugar, for other Sugar users. >> >> +1 >> >> > Regards, >> > --Gary >> >> -- >> Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name >> And Children are my nation. >> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. >> http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) >> ___ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> >> >> >> -- >> Caroline Meeks >> Solution Grove >> carol...@solutiongrove.com >> >> 617-500-3488 - Office >> 505-213-3268 - Fax >> > > -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Share sugar objects on a standalone server
On 17 Jul 2009, at 15:49, Aleksey Lim wrote: > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 03:42:57PM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote: >> On 17 Jul 2009, at 10:11, Aleksey Lim wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:48:10AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 04:43, Aleksey Lim wrote: > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 03:11:15AM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote: >> On 17 Jul 2009, at 02:21, Aleksey Lim wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 08:03:15PM -0500, David Farning wrote: On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Aleksey Lim wrote: > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 12:17:13AM +, Aleksey Lim wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> One of lacks that sugar environment has is simple way to >> share sugar >> objects for broad audience i.e. like scratch community has[1] >> (thanks to davidmorris form #sugar). >> >> So, I've created [2]. Original idea was having highly >> integrated sharing >> features into sugar shell but looks like we can do simple >> things first >> and even utilize only Browse for browsing/download/upload >> sugar objects. >> >> The problem is - what web engine we should use. >> >> * Utilize AMO[3] engine which is used in >> activities.sugarlabs.org >> in that case we can create something like >> library.sugarlabs.org to not > > Pro: > * we do not split users behaviour, they need the same > experience > that ASLO requires > * one common branding for activities and objects sites > * AMO has sufficient(imo) functionality - reviews, ranking, > collections > and thumbs mode > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:2/cat:all?sort=popular > * we hack AMO code anyway - its not a problem in adding new > AMO environment > > Contra: * Locality - In may instances the stuff created by students will only be of interest to their friends, teachers, and parent. Serving via ASLO publishes the content globally. >>> >>> "publishes the content globally" is the original purpose for >>> this >>> feature >>> in contrast with >>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Peer_to_Peer_Objects_Sharing >>> >>> Or you mean possibility to share objects on local servers? >> >> Would be really good if we could just get the uploading of >> Journal >> entries via Browse working reliably, right now it's only certain >> simple object types (png, pdf, etc) that work reasonably. > > What do you mean exactly? > Object chooser can pick any type of objects including > "anything" option. The root of the problem is that we are uploading files, not entries. Some activities store files in their entries in formats commonly used and known. But others will store a json file and after upload nobody knows what to do with it. The good news is that we have already a format for packaging full journal entries in zip files and after downloading such an entry bundle it will be expanded and restored in the journal will all the metadata, etc. >> >> +1, had this same thought last night :-) >> What we would need is for a simple way to upload these bundled entries instead of just the file. Any ideas about how would look the UI like? >>> >>> I'm thinking about implicit behaviour, >>> like while choosing objects for input fields in Browse >>> we can package chosen object to bundle >> >> As per my other email we currently have "Activities" and "Objects" >> in the Journal. Objects could be implicitly uploaded by Browse as >> regular files, > > Objects need to be bundled as well e.g. package tags that were added > by > user after downloading this object to Journal. Well... yes I do kind'a agree... but that would make it very hard to work with non-Sugar users and generic file types. This is a design area that needs more thrashing out so I'm glad it's finally getting some discussion :-) The other obvious way I can see is throwing a dialogue at the poor user, and making them choose what gets uploaded (Journal bundle vs. generic file), but I almost always say NO to using dialogues ;-) Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Share sugar objects on a standalone server
Hi Caroline, On 17 Jul 2009, at 23:35, Caroline Meeks wrote: > Ack! I posted this to the wrong thread! Sorry :( > > Here are some ideas for use cases that we might want to think through. > > Off the top of my head > > • Teacher shares a file with a class > • Teacher shares a file or lesson plan or student work sample with > other teachers > • Student shares with classmate for peer review > • Student shares with teacher for assessment (need an easy way for > teachers to see all students work) > • Student shares with outside world > • Student shares with school community > • Teacher or student gets an activity for Sugar > • Teacher or Student learns what is possible with Sugar from > examples > • Students or classes of students collaobrate to co-create projects > All different, but it would be good if the end users felt there was > some consistent logic to how they did these tasks which may well be > related in their minds. Could you list how a teacher/student currently accomplishes each of these cases? I have my own guesses for most (I think most would usually involve a school Windows file server and share disk space, or just not be allowed from the school point of view), but wanted to see if you have a list of current approaches for these. Regards, --Gary > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Edward Cherlin > wrote: > On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 7:11 PM, Gary C Martin > wrote: > > > Test case: > > 1) Create a new TurtleArt activity > > 2) Upload the new entry to the SL wiki using Browse > > 3) Use Browse to download the entry back to Journal > > 4) Resume it from Journal > > Thanks. That's something I missed. I'll add it to [[The > undiscoverable]]. > > However, when I tried uploading a TA session, the Wiki said, > > ".gtar" is not a permitted file type. > > Did we change from .tar.gz to .gtar in the Journal, or something like > that, but not coordinate properly? > > > This should ideally work for all Activities, then folks can actually > > start creating and distributing content/activities directly using > > Sugar, for other Sugar users. > > +1 > > > Regards, > > --Gary > > -- > Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/ > دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name > And Children are my nation. > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. > http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > -- > Caroline Meeks > Solution Grove > carol...@solutiongrove.com > > 617-500-3488 - Office > 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Share sugar objects on a standalone server
Ack! I posted this to the wrong thread! Sorry :( Here are some ideas for use cases that we might want to think through. Off the top of my head - Teacher shares a file with a class - Teacher shares a file or lesson plan or student work sample with other teachers - Student shares with classmate for peer review - Student shares with teacher for assessment (need an easy way for teachers to see all students work) - Student shares with outside world - Student shares with school community - Teacher or student gets an activity for Sugar - Teacher or Student learns what is possible with Sugar from examples - Students or classes of students collaobrate to co-create projects All different, but it would be good if the end users felt there was some consistent logic to how they did these tasks which may well be related in their minds. On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Edward Cherlin wrote: > On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 7:11 PM, Gary C Martin > wrote: > > > Test case: > > 1) Create a new TurtleArt activity > > 2) Upload the new entry to the SL wiki using Browse > > 3) Use Browse to download the entry back to Journal > > 4) Resume it from Journal > > Thanks. That's something I missed. I'll add it to [[The undiscoverable]]. > > However, when I tried uploading a TA session, the Wiki said, > > ".gtar" is not a permitted file type. > > Did we change from .tar.gz to .gtar in the Journal, or something like > that, but not coordinate properly? > > > This should ideally work for all Activities, then folks can actually > > start creating and distributing content/activities directly using > > Sugar, for other Sugar users. > > +1 > > > Regards, > > --Gary > > -- > Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name > And Children are my nation. > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. > http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Share sugar objects on a standalone server
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 7:11 PM, Gary C Martin wrote: > Test case: > 1) Create a new TurtleArt activity > 2) Upload the new entry to the SL wiki using Browse > 3) Use Browse to download the entry back to Journal > 4) Resume it from Journal Thanks. That's something I missed. I'll add it to [[The undiscoverable]]. However, when I tried uploading a TA session, the Wiki said, ".gtar" is not a permitted file type. Did we change from .tar.gz to .gtar in the Journal, or something like that, but not coordinate properly? > This should ideally work for all Activities, then folks can actually > start creating and distributing content/activities directly using > Sugar, for other Sugar users. +1 > Regards, > --Gary -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Share sugar objects on a standalone server
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 03:42:57PM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote: > On 17 Jul 2009, at 10:11, Aleksey Lim wrote: > > >On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:48:10AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >>On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 04:43, Aleksey > >>Lim wrote: > >>>On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 03:11:15AM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote: > On 17 Jul 2009, at 02:21, Aleksey Lim wrote: > > >On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 08:03:15PM -0500, David Farning wrote: > >>On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Aleksey > >>Lim wrote: > >>>On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 12:17:13AM +, Aleksey Lim wrote: > Hi all, > > One of lacks that sugar environment has is simple way to > share sugar > objects for broad audience i.e. like scratch community has[1] > (thanks to davidmorris form #sugar). > > So, I've created [2]. Original idea was having highly > integrated sharing > features into sugar shell but looks like we can do simple > things first > and even utilize only Browse for browsing/download/upload > sugar objects. > > The problem is - what web engine we should use. > > * Utilize AMO[3] engine which is used in > activities.sugarlabs.org > in that case we can create something like > library.sugarlabs.org to not > >>> > >>>Pro: > >>>* we do not split users behaviour, they need the same experience > >>>that ASLO requires > >>>* one common branding for activities and objects sites > >>>* AMO has sufficient(imo) functionality - reviews, ranking, > >>>collections > >>>and thumbs mode > >>>https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:2/cat:all?sort=popular > >>>* we hack AMO code anyway - its not a problem in adding new > >>>AMO environment > >>> > >>>Contra: > >>* Locality - In may instances the stuff created by > >>students will only > >>be of interest to their friends, teachers, and parent. > >>Serving via > >>ASLO publishes the content globally. > > > >"publishes the content globally" is the original purpose for this > >feature > >in contrast with > >http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Peer_to_Peer_Objects_Sharing > > > >Or you mean possibility to share objects on local servers? > > Would be really good if we could just get the uploading of Journal > entries via Browse working reliably, right now it's only certain > simple object types (png, pdf, etc) that work reasonably. > >>> > >>>What do you mean exactly? > >>>Object chooser can pick any type of objects including > >>>"anything" option. > >> > >>The root of the problem is that we are uploading files, not entries. > >>Some activities store files in their entries in formats commonly used > >>and known. But others will store a json file and after upload nobody > >>knows what to do with it. > >> > >>The good news is that we have already a format for packaging full > >>journal entries in zip files and after downloading such an entry > >>bundle it will be expanded and restored in the journal will all the > >>metadata, etc. > > +1, had this same thought last night :-) > > >>What we would need is for a simple way to upload these bundled > >>entries > >>instead of just the file. > >> > >>Any ideas about how would look the UI like? > > > >I'm thinking about implicit behaviour, > >like while choosing objects for input fields in Browse > >we can package chosen object to bundle > > As per my other email we currently have "Activities" and "Objects" > in the Journal. Objects could be implicitly uploaded by Browse as > regular files, Objects need to be bundled as well e.g. package tags that were added by user after downloading this object to Journal. -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Share sugar objects on a standalone server
On 17 Jul 2009, at 10:11, Aleksey Lim wrote: > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:48:10AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 04:43, Aleksey Lim >> wrote: >>> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 03:11:15AM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote: On 17 Jul 2009, at 02:21, Aleksey Lim wrote: > On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 08:03:15PM -0500, David Farning wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Aleksey >> Lim wrote: >>> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 12:17:13AM +, Aleksey Lim wrote: Hi all, One of lacks that sugar environment has is simple way to share sugar objects for broad audience i.e. like scratch community has[1] (thanks to davidmorris form #sugar). So, I've created [2]. Original idea was having highly integrated sharing features into sugar shell but looks like we can do simple things first and even utilize only Browse for browsing/download/upload sugar objects. The problem is - what web engine we should use. * Utilize AMO[3] engine which is used in activities.sugarlabs.org in that case we can create something like library.sugarlabs.org to not >>> >>> Pro: >>> * we do not split users behaviour, they need the same experience >>> that ASLO requires >>> * one common branding for activities and objects sites >>> * AMO has sufficient(imo) functionality - reviews, ranking, >>> collections >>> and thumbs mode >>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:2/cat:all?sort=popular >>> * we hack AMO code anyway - its not a problem in adding new >>> AMO environment >>> >>> Contra: >> * Locality - In may instances the stuff created by students >> will only >> be of interest to their friends, teachers, and parent. Serving >> via >> ASLO publishes the content globally. > > "publishes the content globally" is the original purpose for this > feature > in contrast with > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Peer_to_Peer_Objects_Sharing > > Or you mean possibility to share objects on local servers? Would be really good if we could just get the uploading of Journal entries via Browse working reliably, right now it's only certain simple object types (png, pdf, etc) that work reasonably. >>> >>> What do you mean exactly? >>> Object chooser can pick any type of objects including "anything" >>> option. >> >> The root of the problem is that we are uploading files, not entries. >> Some activities store files in their entries in formats commonly used >> and known. But others will store a json file and after upload nobody >> knows what to do with it. >> >> The good news is that we have already a format for packaging full >> journal entries in zip files and after downloading such an entry >> bundle it will be expanded and restored in the journal will all the >> metadata, etc. +1, had this same thought last night :-) >> What we would need is for a simple way to upload these bundled >> entries >> instead of just the file. >> >> Any ideas about how would look the UI like? > > I'm thinking about implicit behaviour, > like while choosing objects for input fields in Browse > we can package chosen object to bundle As per my other email we currently have "Activities" and "Objects" in the Journal. Objects could be implicitly uploaded by Browse as regular files, Activities could be zipped up and bundled with all their meta- data. I spent most of yesterday digging about in Mozilla classic.jar files trying to build a custom Sugar theme for Browse. A Mozilla .jar is just a renamed, zipped up directory. If Mozilla are doing this, so can we :-) Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Share sugar objects on a standalone server
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:48:10AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 04:43, Aleksey Lim wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 03:11:15AM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote: > >> On 17 Jul 2009, at 02:21, Aleksey Lim wrote: > >> > >> >On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 08:03:15PM -0500, David Farning wrote: > >> >>On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Aleksey > >> >>Lim wrote: > >> >>>On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 12:17:13AM +, Aleksey Lim wrote: > >> Hi all, > >> > >> One of lacks that sugar environment has is simple way to > >> share sugar > >> objects for broad audience i.e. like scratch community has[1] > >> (thanks to davidmorris form #sugar). > >> > >> So, I've created [2]. Original idea was having highly > >> integrated sharing > >> features into sugar shell but looks like we can do simple > >> things first > >> and even utilize only Browse for browsing/download/upload > >> sugar objects. > >> > >> The problem is - what web engine we should use. > >> > >> * Utilize AMO[3] engine which is used in activities.sugarlabs.org > >> in that case we can create something like > >> library.sugarlabs.org to not > >> >>> > >> >>>Pro: > >> >>>* we do not split users behaviour, they need the same experience > >> >>> that ASLO requires > >> >>>* one common branding for activities and objects sites > >> >>>* AMO has sufficient(imo) functionality - reviews, ranking, > >> >>>collections > >> >>> and thumbs mode > >> >>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:2/cat:all?sort=popular > >> >>>* we hack AMO code anyway - its not a problem in adding new > >> >>>AMO environment > >> >>> > >> >>>Contra: > >> >>* Locality - In may instances the stuff created by students will only > >> >>be of interest to their friends, teachers, and parent. Serving via > >> >>ASLO publishes the content globally. > >> > > >> >"publishes the content globally" is the original purpose for this > >> >feature > >> >in contrast with > >> >http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Peer_to_Peer_Objects_Sharing > >> > > >> >Or you mean possibility to share objects on local servers? > >> > >> Would be really good if we could just get the uploading of Journal > >> entries via Browse working reliably, right now it's only certain > >> simple object types (png, pdf, etc) that work reasonably. > > > > What do you mean exactly? > > Object chooser can pick any type of objects including "anything" option. > > The root of the problem is that we are uploading files, not entries. > Some activities store files in their entries in formats commonly used > and known. But others will store a json file and after upload nobody > knows what to do with it. > > The good news is that we have already a format for packaging full > journal entries in zip files and after downloading such an entry > bundle it will be expanded and restored in the journal will all the > metadata, etc. > > What we would need is for a simple way to upload these bundled entries > instead of just the file. > > Any ideas about how would look the UI like? I'm thinking about implicit behaviour, like while choosing objects for input fields in Browse we can package chosen object to bundle -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Share sugar objects on a standalone server
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 04:43, Aleksey Lim wrote: > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 03:11:15AM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote: >> On 17 Jul 2009, at 02:21, Aleksey Lim wrote: >> >> >On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 08:03:15PM -0500, David Farning wrote: >> >>On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Aleksey >> >>Lim wrote: >> >>>On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 12:17:13AM +, Aleksey Lim wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> One of lacks that sugar environment has is simple way to >> share sugar >> objects for broad audience i.e. like scratch community has[1] >> (thanks to davidmorris form #sugar). >> >> So, I've created [2]. Original idea was having highly >> integrated sharing >> features into sugar shell but looks like we can do simple >> things first >> and even utilize only Browse for browsing/download/upload >> sugar objects. >> >> The problem is - what web engine we should use. >> >> * Utilize AMO[3] engine which is used in activities.sugarlabs.org >> in that case we can create something like >> library.sugarlabs.org to not >> >>> >> >>>Pro: >> >>>* we do not split users behaviour, they need the same experience >> >>> that ASLO requires >> >>>* one common branding for activities and objects sites >> >>>* AMO has sufficient(imo) functionality - reviews, ranking, >> >>>collections >> >>> and thumbs mode >> >>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:2/cat:all?sort=popular >> >>>* we hack AMO code anyway - its not a problem in adding new >> >>>AMO environment >> >>> >> >>>Contra: >> >>* Locality - In may instances the stuff created by students will only >> >>be of interest to their friends, teachers, and parent. Serving via >> >>ASLO publishes the content globally. >> > >> >"publishes the content globally" is the original purpose for this >> >feature >> >in contrast with >> >http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Peer_to_Peer_Objects_Sharing >> > >> >Or you mean possibility to share objects on local servers? >> >> Would be really good if we could just get the uploading of Journal >> entries via Browse working reliably, right now it's only certain >> simple object types (png, pdf, etc) that work reasonably. > > What do you mean exactly? > Object chooser can pick any type of objects including "anything" option. The root of the problem is that we are uploading files, not entries. Some activities store files in their entries in formats commonly used and known. But others will store a json file and after upload nobody knows what to do with it. The good news is that we have already a format for packaging full journal entries in zip files and after downloading such an entry bundle it will be expanded and restored in the journal will all the metadata, etc. What we would need is for a simple way to upload these bundled entries instead of just the file. Any ideas about how would look the UI like? Regards, Tomeu >> Then any >> one of the above solutions could be used at the desecration of a >> deployment > >> (FWIW I favour wikis for this). > > I'm just thinking that we may want to meet the same benefits when we chose > ASLO instead of using wiki for activities repository. > >> Need to make sure we have a clear message for Activity authors in >> providing uploadable/downloadable Journal entries with valid mime >> types, and perhaps even extensions (so passing entries through other >> OSs doesn't mangle them). >> >> To be honest I'm not too clear of all this myself, and the testing >> we did at SugarCamp failed, and gave us a long list of todos (Browse >> upload/download name mangling was one of them). >> >> Test case: >> 1) Create a new TurtleArt activity >> 2) Upload the new entry to the SL wiki using Browse >> 3) Use Browse to download the entry back to Journal >> 4) Resume it from Journal >> >> This should ideally work for all Activities, then folks can actually >> start creating and distributing content/activities directly using >> Sugar, for other Sugar users. > > Thanks, I've tuned > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Server_Objects_Sharing > > -- > Aleksey > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Share sugar objects on a standalone server
On 17 Jul 2009, at 03:43, Aleksey Lim wrote: > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 03:11:15AM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote: >> Would be really good if we could just get the uploading of Journal >> entries via Browse working reliably, right now it's only certain >> simple object types (png, pdf, etc) that work reasonably. > > What do you mean exactly? > Object chooser can pick any type of objects including "anything" > option. Yes you can pick any entry in the Journal to upload via Browse, but you hit a number of bumps that make it fairy useless for most cases. Off the top of my head: 1) Upload file name is mangled, think it is currently some great long hex ID 2) Many Activities need work sorting out mime type, extension types 3) All the Activities metadata is lost 4) The http servers involved need to have these custom mime types, extension types 5) Downloading files with Browse mangles the name... again 6) The entry arrives as an 'Object', not an Activity (point of design needing clarification) 7) Due to above metadata/mime/extension mess you can't resume most entries in the intended Activity 8) If you do get it resumed in the correct Activity, it always stays as an 'Object', never a real activity entry Just to clarify what I mean by Journal 'Object' and Journal 'Activity': - Activity entries display with your, or another users, colour and with the icon of the Activity bundle it was created with, they automatically resume with that specific Activity if clicked. - Object entries use one of the default icons for the Objects type (based on its mime/extension). Clicking an object starts it with a default Activity for that mime type (though you can start it with other compatible Activities). Even after you've started it, and worked on it with an Activity, it always stays as an Object (even if you Keep a new version) in your Journal. Example; download a JPG using Browse; start it from the Journal with Paint; draw on it; Stop Paint. You now have an edited image, but it's still an Object in your Journal, not a Paint Activity. This may make sense for generic file types, but how would you expect a genuine Activity specific entry to look after downloading? If I uploaded a TurtleArt/Memorize/Etoys/Labyrinth Activity, I'd expect to be able to download it and get back a TurtleArt/Memorize/Etoys/ Labyrinth Activity in my Journal, not some generic mime type Object. Simon might have some more input on this (we had a short test session back during SugarCamp to try to see where the main bumps in the workflow were). Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Share sugar objects on a standalone server
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 03:11:15AM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote: > On 17 Jul 2009, at 02:21, Aleksey Lim wrote: > > >On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 08:03:15PM -0500, David Farning wrote: > >>On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Aleksey > >>Lim wrote: > >>>On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 12:17:13AM +, Aleksey Lim wrote: > Hi all, > > One of lacks that sugar environment has is simple way to > share sugar > objects for broad audience i.e. like scratch community has[1] > (thanks to davidmorris form #sugar). > > So, I've created [2]. Original idea was having highly > integrated sharing > features into sugar shell but looks like we can do simple > things first > and even utilize only Browse for browsing/download/upload > sugar objects. > > The problem is - what web engine we should use. > > * Utilize AMO[3] engine which is used in activities.sugarlabs.org > in that case we can create something like > library.sugarlabs.org to not > >>> > >>>Pro: > >>>* we do not split users behaviour, they need the same experience > >>> that ASLO requires > >>>* one common branding for activities and objects sites > >>>* AMO has sufficient(imo) functionality - reviews, ranking, > >>>collections > >>> and thumbs mode > >>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:2/cat:all?sort=popular > >>>* we hack AMO code anyway - its not a problem in adding new > >>>AMO environment > >>> > >>>Contra: > >>* Locality - In may instances the stuff created by students will only > >>be of interest to their friends, teachers, and parent. Serving via > >>ASLO publishes the content globally. > > > >"publishes the content globally" is the original purpose for this > >feature > >in contrast with > >http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Peer_to_Peer_Objects_Sharing > > > >Or you mean possibility to share objects on local servers? > > Would be really good if we could just get the uploading of Journal > entries via Browse working reliably, right now it's only certain > simple object types (png, pdf, etc) that work reasonably. What do you mean exactly? Object chooser can pick any type of objects including "anything" option. > Then any > one of the above solutions could be used at the desecration of a > deployment > (FWIW I favour wikis for this). I'm just thinking that we may want to meet the same benefits when we chose ASLO instead of using wiki for activities repository. > Need to make sure we have a clear message for Activity authors in > providing uploadable/downloadable Journal entries with valid mime > types, and perhaps even extensions (so passing entries through other > OSs doesn't mangle them). > > To be honest I'm not too clear of all this myself, and the testing > we did at SugarCamp failed, and gave us a long list of todos (Browse > upload/download name mangling was one of them). > > Test case: > 1) Create a new TurtleArt activity > 2) Upload the new entry to the SL wiki using Browse > 3) Use Browse to download the entry back to Journal > 4) Resume it from Journal > > This should ideally work for all Activities, then folks can actually > start creating and distributing content/activities directly using > Sugar, for other Sugar users. Thanks, I've tuned http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Server_Objects_Sharing -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Share sugar objects on a standalone server
On 17 Jul 2009, at 02:21, Aleksey Lim wrote: > On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 08:03:15PM -0500, David Farning wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Aleksey >> Lim wrote: >>> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 12:17:13AM +, Aleksey Lim wrote: Hi all, One of lacks that sugar environment has is simple way to share sugar objects for broad audience i.e. like scratch community has[1] (thanks to davidmorris form #sugar). So, I've created [2]. Original idea was having highly integrated sharing features into sugar shell but looks like we can do simple things first and even utilize only Browse for browsing/download/upload sugar objects. The problem is - what web engine we should use. * Utilize AMO[3] engine which is used in activities.sugarlabs.org in that case we can create something like library.sugarlabs.org to not >>> >>> Pro: >>> * we do not split users behaviour, they need the same experience >>> that ASLO requires >>> * one common branding for activities and objects sites >>> * AMO has sufficient(imo) functionality - reviews, ranking, >>> collections >>> and thumbs mode >>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:2/cat:all?sort=popular >>> * we hack AMO code anyway - its not a problem in adding new AMO >>> environment >>> >>> Contra: >> * Locality - In may instances the stuff created by students will only >> be of interest to their friends, teachers, and parent. Serving via >> ASLO publishes the content globally. > > "publishes the content globally" is the original purpose for this > feature > in contrast with > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Peer_to_Peer_Objects_Sharing > > Or you mean possibility to share objects on local servers? Would be really good if we could just get the uploading of Journal entries via Browse working reliably, right now it's only certain simple object types (png, pdf, etc) that work reasonably. Then any one of the above solutions could be used at the desecration of a deployment (FWIW I favour wikis for this). Need to make sure we have a clear message for Activity authors in providing uploadable/downloadable Journal entries with valid mime types, and perhaps even extensions (so passing entries through other OSs doesn't mangle them). To be honest I'm not too clear of all this myself, and the testing we did at SugarCamp failed, and gave us a long list of todos (Browse upload/download name mangling was one of them). Test case: 1) Create a new TurtleArt activity 2) Upload the new entry to the SL wiki using Browse 3) Use Browse to download the entry back to Journal 4) Resume it from Journal This should ideally work for all Activities, then folks can actually start creating and distributing content/activities directly using Sugar, for other Sugar users. Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Share sugar objects on a standalone server
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Aleksey Lim wrote: > Hi all, > > One of lacks that sugar environment has is simple way to share sugar > objects for broad audience i.e. like scratch community has[1] > (thanks to davidmorris form #sugar). Yes, teachers and content developers need this, in addition to children. I can of course transfer objects from the file system, but then I have randomly named objects. I have to either rename them manually, or create a browser to read the metadata files. (Good idea, anyway. The Journal doesn't count, because you have to look at a separate screen for every entry's data.) > So, I've created [2]. Original idea was having highly integrated sharing > features into sugar shell but looks like we can do simple things first > and even utilize only Browse for browsing/download/upload sugar objects. > > The problem is - what web engine we should use. > > * Utilize AMO[3] engine which is used in activities.sugarlabs.org > in that case we can create something like library.sugarlabs.org to not > mess it with ASLO > * School Server > * Moodle > * ... > > Suggestions are welcome. > > [1] http://scratch.mit.edu/ > [2] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Server_Objects_Sharing > [3] https://addons.mozilla.org/ > > -- > Aleksey > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > i...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Share sugar objects on a standalone server
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 08:03:15PM -0500, David Farning wrote: > On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Aleksey Lim wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 12:17:13AM +, Aleksey Lim wrote: > >> Hi all, > >> > >> One of lacks that sugar environment has is simple way to share sugar > >> objects for broad audience i.e. like scratch community has[1] > >> (thanks to davidmorris form #sugar). > >> > >> So, I've created [2]. Original idea was having highly integrated sharing > >> features into sugar shell but looks like we can do simple things first > >> and even utilize only Browse for browsing/download/upload sugar objects. > >> > >> The problem is - what web engine we should use. > >> > >> * Utilize AMO[3] engine which is used in activities.sugarlabs.org > >> in that case we can create something like library.sugarlabs.org to not > > > > Pro: > > * we do not split users behaviour, they need the same experience > > that ASLO requires > > * one common branding for activities and objects sites > > * AMO has sufficient(imo) functionality - reviews, ranking, collections > > and thumbs mode > > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:2/cat:all?sort=popular > > * we hack AMO code anyway - its not a problem in adding new AMO environment > > > > Contra: > * Locality - In may instances the stuff created by students will only > be of interest to their friends, teachers, and parent. Serving via > ASLO publishes the content globally. "publishes the content globally" is the original purpose for this feature in contrast with http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Peer_to_Peer_Objects_Sharing Or you mean possibility to share objects on local servers? -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Share sugar objects on a standalone server
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Aleksey Lim wrote: > On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 12:17:13AM +, Aleksey Lim wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> One of lacks that sugar environment has is simple way to share sugar >> objects for broad audience i.e. like scratch community has[1] >> (thanks to davidmorris form #sugar). >> >> So, I've created [2]. Original idea was having highly integrated sharing >> features into sugar shell but looks like we can do simple things first >> and even utilize only Browse for browsing/download/upload sugar objects. >> >> The problem is - what web engine we should use. >> >> * Utilize AMO[3] engine which is used in activities.sugarlabs.org >> in that case we can create something like library.sugarlabs.org to not > > Pro: > * we do not split users behaviour, they need the same experience > that ASLO requires > * one common branding for activities and objects sites > * AMO has sufficient(imo) functionality - reviews, ranking, collections > and thumbs mode > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:2/cat:all?sort=popular > * we hack AMO code anyway - its not a problem in adding new AMO environment > > Contra: * Locality - In may instances the stuff created by students will only be of interest to their friends, teachers, and parent. Serving via ASLO publishes the content globally. * Heavy uploaded and editor burden - the upload and review process are pretty heavy for minor things. On the other hand * Some content will be of global interest and be worth the effort to upload and review. david > > -- > Aleksey > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > i...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- David Farning Sugar Labs www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
