Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
On 08/13/2009 12:43 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: On 08/12/2009 07:36 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 18:54, Christian Marc Schmidtchristianm...@gmail.com wrote: Great--should we plan on holding a design meeting this Sunday? I can be available after 10am EST (2pm UTC). Sounds good to me. See you then, Tomeu Does work perfectly for me, too! How do we do it, irc, phone? Regards, Simon Gary, Eben - does this time work as well for you? Sunday 10am EST (2pm UTC) Thanks, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
On 08/13/2009 02:42 PM, Walter Bender wrote: I guess my example wasn't as clear as it could have been. The idea is to use the the button, but to have the submenu show up on the right (as shown) instead of below, as in the example that had been previously circulated. So, yes, we'd keep the button behavior. -walter I guess, this would add quite some complexity to the code, to draw the subtoolbar on the left then. We could of course - just let the arrow point to the left - and add the fields to the toolbar like before. Not sure, how clear that distinction would be to the user, though. A possibility based on an idea from Gary: simple activity activity icon - text entry - share - keep - stop more advanced [activity icon] - [edit] - [x] [y] - stop | text - share - keep That way the consistency is done by having the activity icon always at the left and the stop icon always at the right. The rest is up to the author. And the docs should be made good enough to reach consistency in design. Regards, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
Hi Simon, On 14 Aug 2009, at 09:31, Simon Schampijer wrote: On 08/13/2009 12:43 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: On 08/12/2009 07:36 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 18:54, Christian Marc Schmidtchristianm...@gmail.com wrote: Great--should we plan on holding a design meeting this Sunday? I can be available after 10am EST (2pm UTC). Sounds good to me. See you then, Tomeu Does work perfectly for me, too! How do we do it, irc, phone? Regards, Simon Gary, Eben - does this time work as well for you? Sunday 10am EST (2pm UTC) Yes, I can make that time – see you there (irc). Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
On 08/12/2009 07:36 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 18:54, Christian Marc Schmidtchristianm...@gmail.com wrote: Great--should we plan on holding a design meeting this Sunday? I can be available after 10am EST (2pm UTC). Sounds good to me. See you then, Tomeu Does work perfectly for me, too! How do we do it, irc, phone? Regards, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
On 12 Aug 2009, at 17:27, Walter Bender wrote: A rude hack for simple activities (See attached). Would you keep the Activity button behaviour where clicking on it would hide/reveal the title/sharing/keep widgets? Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
I guess my example wasn't as clear as it could have been. The idea is to use the the button, but to have the submenu show up on the right (as shown) instead of below, as in the example that had been previously circulated. So, yes, we'd keep the button behavior. -walter On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 8:16 AM, Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com wrote: On 12 Aug 2009, at 17:27, Walter Bender wrote: A rude hack for simple activities (See attached). Would you keep the Activity button behaviour where clicking on it would hide/reveal the title/sharing/keep widgets? Regards, --Gary -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
Hi, I just ported the hello world example to the new toolbar design [1]. I remember that once Gary pointed out, that simple activities will look 'empty' when we move them to the new design (screenshot attached), Chat would be a famous case. Most of the activities does have options, though. How do we go forward with that? Live with that compromise? Other ideas? Thanks, Simon [1] http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/hello-world/repos/mainline/blobs/master/activity.py#line36 attachment: hello-world-toolbar.png___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
Would it be possible to offer a more compact design, with a single bar, but with the new API? 2009/8/12 Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de: Hi, I just ported the hello world example to the new toolbar design [1]. I remember that once Gary pointed out, that simple activities will look 'empty' when we move them to the new design (screenshot attached), Chat would be a famous case. Most of the activities does have options, though. How do we go forward with that? Live with that compromise? Other ideas? Thanks, Simon [1] http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/hello-world/repos/mainline/blobs/master/activity.py#line36 ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
Last we discussed this, I think we decided that activities which don't modify the toolbars in any way should have a single toolbar containing all of the activity toolbar controls: title entry, sharing, keep, etc. Only if the activity wanted to modify the toolbars would the activity specific stuff be moved under a toolbar button. I recall coming to the same conclusion with Christian as well. Eben On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Lucian Branesculucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote: Would it be possible to offer a more compact design, with a single bar, but with the new API? 2009/8/12 Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de: Hi, I just ported the hello world example to the new toolbar design [1]. I remember that once Gary pointed out, that simple activities will look 'empty' when we move them to the new design (screenshot attached), Chat would be a famous case. Most of the activities does have options, though. How do we go forward with that? Live with that compromise? Other ideas? Thanks, Simon [1] http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/hello-world/repos/mainline/blobs/master/activity.py#line36 ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
Yes, I agree. Unless everyone is on the same page, it may make sense to schedule a meeting this weekend, also to go over proposals for list view in Neighborhood and to discuss groups. What does everyone think? Christian On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Eben Eliason eben.elia...@gmail.comwrote: Last we discussed this, I think we decided that activities which don't modify the toolbars in any way should have a single toolbar containing all of the activity toolbar controls: title entry, sharing, keep, etc. Only if the activity wanted to modify the toolbars would the activity specific stuff be moved under a toolbar button. I recall coming to the same conclusion with Christian as well. Eben On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Lucian Branesculucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote: Would it be possible to offer a more compact design, with a single bar, but with the new API? 2009/8/12 Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de: Hi, I just ported the hello world example to the new toolbar design [1]. I remember that once Gary pointed out, that simple activities will look 'empty' when we move them to the new design (screenshot attached), Chat would be a famous case. Most of the activities does have options, though. How do we go forward with that? Live with that compromise? Other ideas? Thanks, Simon [1] http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/hello-world/repos/mainline/blobs/master/activity.py#line36 ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com 917/ 575 0013 ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
Hi Simon, On 12 Aug 2009, at 11:13, Simon Schampijer wrote: Hi, I just ported the hello world example to the new toolbar design [1]. I remember that once Gary pointed out, that simple activities will look 'empty' when we move them to the new design (screenshot attached), Chat would be a famous case. Most of the activities does have options, though. How do we go forward with that? Live with that compromise? Other ideas? Thanks for the screenshot and bringing this up again. FWIW, it's not just looking 'empty' that is the issue. It's the fact that previously well designed simple activities with a single toolbar, now all have to get 2 toolbars for no good reason other than it makes the more complicated activities, a little simpler. All activities now also need to be able to deal with live resizing of their canvases, goodness knows what will be done with TamTamMini's packed layout (perhaps a full UI redesign moving some canvas button controls into the toolbar, ouch, a lot of work)! I'll sit and stare at the HelloWorld toolbar screenshot, contemplating it's emptiness and the eternal void, perhaps I be enlightened, but I think this may be the price we have to pay for consistency in this design :-( Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
I would be willing to set some time aside for that. Early mornings are best for me. Eben On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Christian Marc Schmidtchristianm...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I agree. Unless everyone is on the same page, it may make sense to schedule a meeting this weekend, also to go over proposals for list view in Neighborhood and to discuss groups. What does everyone think? Christian On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Eben Eliason eben.elia...@gmail.com wrote: Last we discussed this, I think we decided that activities which don't modify the toolbars in any way should have a single toolbar containing all of the activity toolbar controls: title entry, sharing, keep, etc. Only if the activity wanted to modify the toolbars would the activity specific stuff be moved under a toolbar button. I recall coming to the same conclusion with Christian as well. Eben On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Lucian Branesculucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote: Would it be possible to offer a more compact design, with a single bar, but with the new API? 2009/8/12 Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de: Hi, I just ported the hello world example to the new toolbar design [1]. I remember that once Gary pointed out, that simple activities will look 'empty' when we move them to the new design (screenshot attached), Chat would be a famous case. Most of the activities does have options, though. How do we go forward with that? Live with that compromise? Other ideas? Thanks, Simon [1] http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/hello-world/repos/mainline/blobs/master/activity.py#line36 ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com 917/ 575 0013 ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
On 08/12/2009 03:15 PM, Eben Eliason wrote: Last we discussed this, I think we decided that activities which don't modify the toolbars in any way should have a single toolbar containing all of the activity toolbar controls: title entry, sharing, keep, etc. Only if the activity wanted to modify the toolbars would the activity specific stuff be moved under a toolbar button. I recall coming to the same conclusion with Christian as well. Eben Ok. I was mostly worried about visual consistency. And if we add an option for tagging and for adding a description to the activity subtoolbar I hope it will still all fit on one bar - but should be. Regards, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
On 08/12/2009 04:34 PM, Gary C Martin wrote: Hi Simon, On 12 Aug 2009, at 11:13, Simon Schampijer wrote: Hi, I just ported the hello world example to the new toolbar design [1]. I remember that once Gary pointed out, that simple activities will look 'empty' when we move them to the new design (screenshot attached), Chat would be a famous case. Most of the activities does have options, though. How do we go forward with that? Live with that compromise? Other ideas? Thanks for the screenshot and bringing this up again. FWIW, it's not just looking 'empty' that is the issue. It's the fact that previously well designed simple activities with a single toolbar, now all have to get 2 toolbars for no good reason other than it makes the more complicated activities, a little simpler. All activities now also need to be able to deal with live resizing of their canvases, goodness knows what will be done with TamTamMini's packed layout (perhaps a full UI redesign moving some canvas button controls into the toolbar, ouch, a lot of work)! I'll sit and stare at the HelloWorld toolbar screenshot, contemplating it's emptiness and the eternal void, perhaps I be enlightened, but I think this may be the price we have to pay for consistency in this design :-( Regards, --Gary Hey Gary - did you see Eben's comment? Would you prefer to that we go down that road? We are still open for discussions :) Heads up, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
On 08/12/2009 03:24 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt wrote: Yes, I agree. Unless everyone is on the same page, it may make sense to schedule a meeting this weekend, also to go over proposals for list view in Neighborhood and to discuss groups. What does everyone think? Christian We need quite some design team feedback for the upcoming 0.86 release. Next thursday is feature freeze (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Roadmap#Schedule) - so design changes are hard to make after that date. This is the current feature list: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Feature_List I am sure we have a lot of smaller and bigger things the developers would need design people involved. If we could focus in this weekend on those items - that would be awesome. I am not available on Saturday - but have time on Sunday. I would be willing to get a list of items together as well, for those features, where we have questions. Thanks, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
Hi Somon, On 12 Aug 2009, at 16:52, Simon Schampijer wrote: On 08/12/2009 04:34 PM, Gary C Martin wrote: I'll sit and stare at the HelloWorld toolbar screenshot, contemplating it's emptiness and the eternal void, perhaps I be enlightened, but I think this may be the price we have to pay for consistency in this design :-( Hey Gary - did you see Eben's comment? Yea. Would you prefer to that we go down that road? We are still open for discussions :) Yea we could... though toolbar consistency goes right out the window (as you already pointed out). The only thing we have that will be consistent when a kid looks at the top of the screen will be the Stop button! :-) Everything else will potentially look different, move about from activity to activity. To help visual consistency, I was even thinking the dreadful, scandalous thought that for the minimal 1 toolbar case (if 'title', 'share', and 'keep' move into the primary toolbar) that we keep the colored Activity icon in the far left (but with no down arrow, and no palette), basically just an icon with no function other than visual consistency as an Activity. E... Right now (and I'm still contemplating the void), I'm trying to convince myself that the design (as per your screenshot) has enough positive features worth keeping just as it is: 1) All activity toolbars would, at least, be consistent (activity icon on left is a strong element). 2) Kids will not be distracted by title, sharing, or that blasted 'Keep' miss-feature (that should be take out back and shot). Most of the time they won't go near this palette. Heads up, /me ducks behind a sand bag. Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
A rude hack for simple activities (See attached). -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org attachment: hello-world-toolbar-rude-hack.png___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity toolbar redesign: What to do with 'simple' activities?
Great--should we plan on holding a design meeting this Sunday? I can be available after 10am EST (2pm UTC). Christian On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.dewrote: On 08/12/2009 03:24 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt wrote: Yes, I agree. Unless everyone is on the same page, it may make sense to schedule a meeting this weekend, also to go over proposals for list view in Neighborhood and to discuss groups. What does everyone think? Christian We need quite some design team feedback for the upcoming 0.86 release. Next thursday is feature freeze ( http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Roadmap#Schedule) - so design changes are hard to make after that date. This is the current feature list: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Feature_List I am sure we have a lot of smaller and bigger things the developers would need design people involved. If we could focus in this weekend on those items - that would be awesome. I am not available on Saturday - but have time on Sunday. I would be willing to get a list of items together as well, for those features, where we have questions. Thanks, Simon -- anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com 917/ 575 0013 ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
