Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Bug 419240] [NEW] Need instructions on how to set up a cluster of computers so they collaborate.
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartzbmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: Caroline Meeks wrote: The same sticks collaborate locally at the GPA. That's certainly very strange. I still think it's more likely to be a software problem than a hardware problem. The only relevant difference I can think of between GPA and a switch like this is that at GPA, there's a DHCP server handing out addresses. On a simple switch with no internet connection, the computers have to adopt link-local IP addresses (169.*). One possibility is that, in the absence of a DHCP server, the computers are not correctly acquiring link-local addresses. Bill can confirm this on Monday, I guess, by looking at the IP addresses shown in ifconfig in the no-internet configuration. Ben, you got it exactly correct. We had four machines running Strawberry today connected via an Ethernet hub. I used ifconfig to check and none of them had an IP address configure on their ethernet interface. We replaced the hub with a spare cable modem router (built in switch and dhcp server), rebooted the same machines and they all saw each other using the dhcp provide IP address. I would suggest closing this bug as it's not a Sugar bug. It's a Linux distribution problem i.e. a SoaS bug. I'll open a new bug at Launchpad for the problem. Bill Bogstad ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Bug 419240] [NEW] Need instructions on how to set up a cluster of computers so they collaborate.
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Bill Bogstadbogs...@pobox.com wrote: P address. I would suggest closing this bug as it's not a Sugar bug. It's a Linux distribution problem i.e. a SoaS bug. I'll open a new bug at Launchpad for the problem. Oops, I didn't realize this was already a Launchpad bug. I'll add a comment to the original bug instead... Bill Bogstad ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Bug 419240] [NEW] Need instructions on how to set up a cluster of computers so they collaborate.
Caroline, what is the closest T stop to your place? I can meet you at the stop around 10:30? I think David Han will be coming as well to help out and learn a little bit about what's going on. Thanks, Anurag On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi Caroline, On 2 Sep 2009, at 01:57, Caroline Meeks wrote: A crossover cable is a really interesting idea. That would be a simple way to set up two machines in a hallway to collaborate. If anyone can test it would be appreciated. I'll try to get one so we can test on Monday. I should get my cables back late tomorrow, will give this a shot. Though be warned, the only two wire capable devices will be a Mac running a VM of Sugar, and a really old PC that makes XO-1 look fast. Regards, --Gary -- Anurag Goel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Bug 419240] [NEW] Need instructions on how to set up a cluster of computers so they collaborate.
Hi Caroline, On 2 Sep 2009, at 01:57, Caroline Meeks wrote: A crossover cable is a really interesting idea. That would be a simple way to set up two machines in a hallway to collaborate. If anyone can test it would be appreciated. I'll try to get one so we can test on Monday. I should get my cables back late tomorrow, will give this a shot. Though be warned, the only two wire capable devices will be a Mac running a VM of Sugar, and a really old PC that makes XO-1 look fast. Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Bug 419240] [NEW] Need instructions on how to set up a cluster of computers so they collaborate.
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Mike Lee curious...@gmail.com wrote: I can go buy the 5 and 8 port models tonight to try. If one of these works, then we'll at least have a basis for moving forward in the classroom. So far, I don't think we have any confirmed working devices. As I said in another email, I've tested the Linksys 5-port Workgroup Switch with no luck. Is there any reason to suspect the hardware? If it works over wireless or the internet, perhaps this is a software issue. Dave Mike On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: Caroline Meeks wrote: One piece of this will be creating a cluster in the hallway, that collaborates locally but does not have internet access. I've yet to get this to work. We need to translate from discussions of network segments to very practical discussion of what specific model numbers can you buy at the store and it will work for X number of computers. You should be able to use any switch with as many ports as you have computers. For example: 5 ports: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0257750 8 ports: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0294506 16 ports: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0282106 (The Microcenter in Cambridge happens to be my usual place to buy this sort of electronics.) All you should need is a switch like that, and one standard ethernet cable for each computer. If you have a very large number of machines, you can start connecting multiple switches together, but this sounds unlikely to be necessary for your purposes. --Ben ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Dave Bauer d...@solutiongrove.com http://www.solutiongrove.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Bug 419240] [NEW] Need instructions on how to set up a cluster of computers so they collaborate.
Mike Lee wrote: I can go buy the 5 and 8 port models tonight to try. If one of these works, then we'll at least have a basis for moving forward in the classroom. So far, I don't think we have any confirmed working devices. As I said in another email, I've tested the Linksys 5-port Workgroup Switch with no luck. It is hard for me to believe that the problem is with the choice of switch. Switches are commodities; they're interchangeable and virtually identical in functionality. Your earlier description suggests that your laptops are not configured for local collaboration at all. In particular, it's possible that Avahi is not running. Whether the Avahi daemon is initiated by default, and how to start it, varies between distributions, so I can't advise you on that without knowing more about your configuration. --Ben signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Bug 419240] [NEW] Need instructions on how to set up a cluster of computers so they collaborate.
The same sticks collaborate locally at the GPA. Note that not seeing anyone in the neighborhood, and seeing people but not having all shared activities work all the time are probably two different bugs. We do sometimes have trouble with seeing activities at the GPA, but we always see the other people. Thanks! On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:05 PM, Dave Bauer dave.ba...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Mike Lee curious...@gmail.com wrote: I can go buy the 5 and 8 port models tonight to try. If one of these works, then we'll at least have a basis for moving forward in the classroom. So far, I don't think we have any confirmed working devices. As I said in another email, I've tested the Linksys 5-port Workgroup Switch with no luck. Is there any reason to suspect the hardware? If it works over wireless or the internet, perhaps this is a software issue. Dave Mike On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: Caroline Meeks wrote: One piece of this will be creating a cluster in the hallway, that collaborates locally but does not have internet access. I've yet to get this to work. We need to translate from discussions of network segments to very practical discussion of what specific model numbers can you buy at the store and it will work for X number of computers. You should be able to use any switch with as many ports as you have computers. For example: 5 ports: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0257750 8 ports: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0294506 16 ports: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0282106 (The Microcenter in Cambridge happens to be my usual place to buy this sort of electronics.) All you should need is a switch like that, and one standard ethernet cable for each computer. If you have a very large number of machines, you can start connecting multiple switches together, but this sounds unlikely to be necessary for your purposes. --Ben ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Dave Bauer d...@solutiongrove.com http://www.solutiongrove.com -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Bug 419240] [NEW] Need instructions on how to set up a cluster of computers so they collaborate.
On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 02:57:57PM -0400, Mike Lee wrote: As I said in another email, I've tested the Linksys 5-port Workgroup Switch with no luck. I don't think it has got anything to do with the switch. Collaboration is known to have some bugs. CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Bug 419240] [NEW] Need instructions on how to set up a cluster of computers so they collaborate.
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Caroline Meekscme...@sugarlabs.org wrote: The same sticks collaborate locally at the GPA. Note that not seeing anyone in the neighborhood, and seeing people but not having all shared activities work all the time are probably two different bugs. We do sometimes have trouble with seeing activities at the GPA, but we always see the other people. I'm going to bring a ethernet hub (not switch) on Monday and see if tcpdump/ethereal can at least tell me what packets are flowing between non-working machines. I agree that the type of ethernet switch really shouldn't matter for this. Bill Bogstad ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Bug 419240] [NEW] Need instructions on how to set up a cluster of computers so they collaborate.
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Sascha Silbesascha-ml-ui-sugar-de...@silbe.org wrote: On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 02:57:57PM -0400, Mike Lee wrote: As I said in another email, I've tested the Linksys 5-port Workgroup Switch with no luck. I don't think it has got anything to do with the switch. Collaboration is known to have some bugs. Is there a (hopefully straightforward) way to determine if a known bug is causing the problem? Trac entries to check for symptoms? Things to look for in packet dumps? Logfile entries to examine? etc... Bill Bogstad ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Bug 419240] [NEW] Need instructions on how to set up a cluster of computers so they collaborate.
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Bill Bogstad bogs...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Caroline Meekscme...@sugarlabs.org wrote: The same sticks collaborate locally at the GPA. Note that not seeing anyone in the neighborhood, and seeing people but not having all shared activities work all the time are probably two different bugs. We do sometimes have trouble with seeing activities at the GPA, but we always see the other people. I'm going to bring a ethernet hub (not switch) on Monday and see if tcpdump/ethereal can at least tell me what packets are flowing between non-working machines. I agree that the type of ethernet switch really shouldn't matter for this. Also make sure you install and use the Analyze activity. Dave Bill Bogstad -- Dave Bauer d...@solutiongrove.com http://www.solutiongrove.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Bug 419240] [NEW] Need instructions on how to set up a cluster of computers so they collaborate.
Caroline Meeks wrote: The same sticks collaborate locally at the GPA. That's certainly very strange. I still think it's more likely to be a software problem than a hardware problem. The only relevant difference I can think of between GPA and a switch like this is that at GPA, there's a DHCP server handing out addresses. On a simple switch with no internet connection, the computers have to adopt link-local IP addresses (169.*). One possibility is that, in the absence of a DHCP server, the computers are not correctly acquiring link-local addresses. Bill can confirm this on Monday, I guess, by looking at the IP addresses shown in ifconfig in the no-internet configuration. Note that not seeing anyone in the neighborhood, and seeing people but not having all shared activities work all the time are probably two different bugs. We do sometimes have trouble with seeing activities at the GPA, but we always see the other people. Agreed. These are different issues. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Bug 419240] [NEW] Need instructions on how to set up a cluster of computers so they collaborate.
Bill Bogstad wrote: On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Sascha Silbesascha-ml-ui-sugar-de...@silbe.org wrote: On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 02:57:57PM -0400, Mike Lee wrote: As I said in another email, I've tested the Linksys 5-port Workgroup Switch with no luck. I don't think it has got anything to do with the switch. Collaboration is known to have some bugs. Is there a (hopefully straightforward) way to determine if a known bug is causing the problem? I am not aware of any bug that would cause the observed symptoms. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Bug 419240] [NEW] Need instructions on how to set up a cluster of computers so they collaborate.
Gary C Martin wrote: On 1 Sep 2009, at 20:20, Sascha Silbe wrote: On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 02:57:57PM -0400, Mike Lee wrote: As I said in another email, I've tested the Linksys 5-port Workgroup Switch with no luck. I don't think it has got anything to do with the switch. Collaboration is known to have some bugs. FWIW: All my testing has been done over wireless, so no wired results to report. I do have a switch and 2 machines so I might be able to test over ethernet and see if I can reproduce the issue here. That would be good. Even a crossover cable between two machines would be enough to test the system. My current best diagnosis is that the dhcpcd on Strawberry has somehow been configured without zeroconf, so it does not acquire a link-local address and bring up the interface in the absence of a DHCP server. I freely admit, though, that this diagnosis doesn't make a lot of sense, because Fedora has generally embraced zeroconf and Avahi, and there's no reason Strawberry should be different from stock Fedora in this regard. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Bug 419240] [NEW] Need instructions on how to set up a cluster of computers so they collaborate.
On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 03:23:57PM -0400, Bill Bogstad wrote: Is there a (hopefully straightforward) way to determine if a known bug is causing the problem? I don't think any of the causes has been narrowed down sufficiently yet to be able to claim that you did (or did not) hit a known bug, sorry. CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Bug 419240] [NEW] Need instructions on how to set up a cluster of computers so they collaborate.
On 1 Sep 2009, at 20:35, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: Gary C Martin wrote: On 1 Sep 2009, at 20:20, Sascha Silbe wrote: On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 02:57:57PM -0400, Mike Lee wrote: As I said in another email, I've tested the Linksys 5-port Workgroup Switch with no luck. I don't think it has got anything to do with the switch. Collaboration is known to have some bugs. FWIW: All my testing has been done over wireless, so no wired results to report. I do have a switch and 2 machines so I might be able to test over ethernet and see if I can reproduce the issue here. That would be good. Even a crossover cable between two machines would be enough to test the system. Yep thanks, wires are with a friend, will be a few days before I can test here, will give that route a test as well as a fallback if the switch is not playing well. My current best diagnosis is that the dhcpcd on Strawberry has somehow been configured without zeroconf, so it does not acquire a link-local address and bring up the interface in the absence of a DHCP server. I freely admit, though, that this diagnosis doesn't make a lot of sense, because Fedora has generally embraced zeroconf and Avahi, and there's no reason Strawberry should be different from stock Fedora in this regard. Yea, I'm not clear also on where the issue lies, hopefully reproduction of the failure in a test environment will push us in the right direction (sorry I can't do this right now) :-) Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Bug 419240] [NEW] Need instructions on how to set up a cluster of computers so they collaborate.
A crossover cable is a really interesting idea. That would be a simple way to set up two machines in a hallway to collaborate. If anyone can test it would be appreciated. I'll try to get one so we can test on Monday. On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: On 1 Sep 2009, at 20:35, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: Gary C Martin wrote: On 1 Sep 2009, at 20:20, Sascha Silbe wrote: On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 02:57:57PM -0400, Mike Lee wrote: As I said in another email, I've tested the Linksys 5-port Workgroup Switch with no luck. I don't think it has got anything to do with the switch. Collaboration is known to have some bugs. FWIW: All my testing has been done over wireless, so no wired results to report. I do have a switch and 2 machines so I might be able to test over ethernet and see if I can reproduce the issue here. That would be good. Even a crossover cable between two machines would be enough to test the system. Yep thanks, wires are with a friend, will be a few days before I can test here, will give that route a test as well as a fallback if the switch is not playing well. My current best diagnosis is that the dhcpcd on Strawberry has somehow been configured without zeroconf, so it does not acquire a link-local address and bring up the interface in the absence of a DHCP server. I freely admit, though, that this diagnosis doesn't make a lot of sense, because Fedora has generally embraced zeroconf and Avahi, and there's no reason Strawberry should be different from stock Fedora in this regard. Yea, I'm not clear also on where the issue lies, hopefully reproduction of the failure in a test environment will push us in the right direction (sorry I can't do this right now) :-) Regards, --Gary -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
