Re: [Sugar-devel] Network proxy, configuration
For this Feature it would be good to have a look at the exact use case that originated this feature request. Activity Central worked on it, maybe they can give us details about the request from their client to know which exact case we are trying to solve. Simon Am 15.03.2013 um 04:29 schrieb Tony Anderson tony_ander...@usa.net: Hi, Does this mean we will need two signed images, one for the schoolserver and one for the stand-alone XO? Until now, the default configuration has assumed that proxy is provided by the schoolserver. Tony On 03/14/2013 11:17 PM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Tony Anderson tony_ander...@usa.net mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net wrote: Hi, This discussion is making me nervous. The standard model of the XO has been that they are connected to the internet via the school server. Is it proposed to set up this proxy-server as a requirement for all XOs and for the user (primary school children) to have to manage this even when no access to the internet is available or even when that access is provided by the school server? No. This configuration is only needed in environments where there are not school server, and is not possible a automatic configuration. Gonzalo Tony On 03/14/2013 04:35 PM, sugar-devel-request@lists.__sugarlabs.org mailto:sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote: In other words, I can't imagine every 6-12 year old student in a school going into the control panel and typing (without error) a load of proxy details. In my experience things like this are incredibly challenging especially because the users cannot relate to the task at hand (unless you want to teach them about computer networks first). _ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.__org mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/__listinfo/sugar-devel http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Network proxy, configuration
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I believe this feature was requested to address the weird proxy configurations networks require in AU. We shouldn't normally expect users to have to do anything related to network configurations (why would you even require *them* to turn the radio off/on?). This proxy config panel was made part of network-cp just so that people can still access network in places information has to be * either manually entered * proxy autoconfig url For any other scenario the user-experience should remain unchanged. My knowledge of this feature is about a year old, so take this as the historical perspective. I have little idea of the current state of the feature or its implementation. On Friday 15 March 2013 03:28 AM, Simon Schampijer wrote: For this Feature it would be good to have a look at the exact use case that originated this feature request. Activity Central worked on it, maybe they can give us details about the request from their client to know which exact case we are trying to solve. Simon Am 15.03.2013 um 04:29 schrieb Tony Anderson tony_ander...@usa.net: Hi, Does this mean we will need two signed images, one for the schoolserver and one for the stand-alone XO? Until now, the default configuration has assumed that proxy is provided by the schoolserver. Tony On 03/14/2013 11:17 PM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Tony Anderson tony_ander...@usa.net mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net wrote: Hi, This discussion is making me nervous. The standard model of the XO has been that they are connected to the internet via the school server. Is it proposed to set up this proxy-server as a requirement for all XOs and for the user (primary school children) to have to manage this even when no access to the internet is available or even when that access is provided by the school server? No. This configuration is only needed in environments where there are not school server, and is not possible a automatic configuration. Gonzalo Tony On 03/14/2013 04:35 PM, sugar-devel-request@lists.__sugarlabs.org mailto:sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote: In other words, I can't imagine every 6-12 year old student in a school going into the control panel and typing (without error) a load of proxy details. In my experience things like this are incredibly challenging especially because the users cannot relate to the task at hand (unless you want to teach them about computer networks first). _ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.__org mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/__listinfo/sugar-devel http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel - -- Anish Mangal Sugar Labs -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRQ27XAAoJEBoxUdDHDZVpawwH/1601Au4v1NS5fVUd1pBq2zq pxrtllW3xwJVwS1RVcmR5jN1ptaAmzfAGTZ7XX+9dosPCX2F7IiPigluA3ylcEoe WbWZO2QagWLbwkyhYbLbOb9isdxvWf0aTD/kMt5lpVSTLbHi34iDVKr+CeGqAd48 YNz71G/7SxxHa8o/AtZdu4Axmt/XgylYjG50oWrmc0tQyLfKeroiJXAMT4SGnoR3 arZeplCaYYh3Um/AwdPm2Us6wq5rCKwpkbPBT5I3uW4jzmOwmnHRt7V8w5im1BR3 BksePWfBnfxu7Cs1nWGGeVcZY3CApzcOOX3kML4aSB2EeAg/cpdO7GPdsGAgh90= =W52l -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Network proxy, configuration
On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 12:26 AM, Anish Mangal an...@sugarlabs.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I believe this feature was requested to address the weird proxy configurations networks require in AU. We shouldn't normally expect users to have to do anything related to network configurations (why would you even require *them* to turn the radio off/on?). This proxy config panel was made part of network-cp just so that people can still access network in places information has to be * either manually entered * proxy autoconfig url For any other scenario the user-experience should remain unchanged. My knowledge of this feature is about a year old, so take this as the historical perspective. I have little idea of the current state of the feature or its implementation. The feature is the same :) , as per http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Proxy_Settings On Friday 15 March 2013 03:28 AM, Simon Schampijer wrote: For this Feature it would be good to have a look at the exact use case that originated this feature request. Activity Central worked on it, maybe they can give us details about the request from their client to know which exact case we are trying to solve. Simon Am 15.03.2013 um 04:29 schrieb Tony Anderson tony_ander...@usa.net: Hi, Does this mean we will need two signed images, one for the schoolserver and one for the stand-alone XO? Until now, the default configuration has assumed that proxy is provided by the schoolserver. Tony On 03/14/2013 11:17 PM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Tony Anderson tony_ander...@usa.net mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net wrote: Hi, This discussion is making me nervous. The standard model of the XO has been that they are connected to the internet via the school server. Is it proposed to set up this proxy-server as a requirement for all XOs and for the user (primary school children) to have to manage this even when no access to the internet is available or even when that access is provided by the school server? No. This configuration is only needed in environments where there are not school server, and is not possible a automatic configuration. Gonzalo Tony On 03/14/2013 04:35 PM, sugar-devel-request@lists.__sugarlabs.org mailto:sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote: In other words, I can't imagine every 6-12 year old student in a school going into the control panel and typing (without error) a load of proxy details. In my experience things like this are incredibly challenging especially because the users cannot relate to the task at hand (unless you want to teach them about computer networks first). _ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.__org mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/__listinfo/sugar-devel http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel - -- Anish Mangal Sugar Labs -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRQ27XAAoJEBoxUdDHDZVpawwH/1601Au4v1NS5fVUd1pBq2zq pxrtllW3xwJVwS1RVcmR5jN1ptaAmzfAGTZ7XX+9dosPCX2F7IiPigluA3ylcEoe WbWZO2QagWLbwkyhYbLbOb9isdxvWf0aTD/kMt5lpVSTLbHi34iDVKr+CeGqAd48 YNz71G/7SxxHa8o/AtZdu4Axmt/XgylYjG50oWrmc0tQyLfKeroiJXAMT4SGnoR3 arZeplCaYYh3Um/AwdPm2Us6wq5rCKwpkbPBT5I3uW4jzmOwmnHRt7V8w5im1BR3 BksePWfBnfxu7Cs1nWGGeVcZY3CApzcOOX3kML4aSB2EeAg/cpdO7GPdsGAgh90= =W52l -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel Regards, Ajay Garg Dextrose Developer Activity Central: http://activitycentral.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Network proxy, configuration
Hello, I expect what Simon is asking is some more information to back up this statement: Both individual users and deployments need to be able to set a proxy for Sugar and activities to use. Tony On 03/15/2013 03:02 PM, Ajay Garg wrote: The feature is the same :) , as per http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Proxy_Settings On Friday 15 March 2013 03:28 AM, Simon Schampijer wrote: For this Feature it would be good to have a look at the exact use case that originated this feature request. Activity Central worked on it, maybe they can give us details about the request from their client to know which exact case we are trying to solve. Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Network proxy, configuration
Hello, I expect what Simon is asking is some more information to back up this statement: Both individual users and deployments need to be able to set a proxy for Sugar and activities to use. Hi To access internet in Australian government schools you need to use a proxy. I am not sure if it is the same proxy for all schools in a state but it will definitely be a different proxy in each state. For this reason alone, setting the proxy in the build is a problem, you would need a different build in each state. If the laptop is take home, the user would want to be able to access the internet in public libraries, Macdonalds restaurants, shopping malls, cafes, home etc. To do this they need to be able to disable the proxy. Question: is if feasible to fall back to non proxy behaviour if the specified proxy is unable to serve webpages? There are 2 or maybe 3 cases, an invalid url in the proxy string eg 'hello', a valid but unreachable url and (possibly?) a third case of a reachable url which does not authorise you to use it. Tony ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Network proxy, configuration
On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 07:53:31AM +1100, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: To access internet in Australian government schools you need to use a proxy. I am not sure if it is the same proxy for all schools in a state but it will definitely be a different proxy in each state. For this reason alone, setting the proxy in the build is a problem, you would need a different build in each state. Some more history to explain to the mailing list: Internet adoption was very quick in the Australian domestic market. Internet adoption was very quick in Australian government schools, with data links provided by each state government education department, along with country government funding. The data links were ISDN 64kbit/sec initially. The data links were charged by the telecommunications provider on byte usage, so an accounting of byte usage immediately became necessary. Sometimes, two networks exist in each school; the curriculum network, and the administration network. Many servers are already present; curriculum, administration. A library may have a server on each network. Each teacher and student is given a username and password for a proxy server either at the school network boundary, or at the other end(!) of the data link. The username and password were valid for a semester or a year. The proxy is responsible for content filtering and usage tracking. Disciplinary action may also restrict the proxy access. When XO laptops are deployed to these schools without adding a schoolserver or changing the network design (the usual case), they must be capable of interoperating with the environment. There's almost no chance of altering the environment. It is well established and entrenched. If the laptop is take home, the user would want to be able to access the internet in public libraries, Macdonalds restaurants, shopping malls, cafes, home etc. To do this they need to be able to disable the proxy. This might be a rarer requirement in this deployment, but it would be interesting to hear how much need there is for it. Question: is if feasible to fall back to non proxy behaviour if the specified proxy is unable to serve webpages? There are 2 or maybe 3 cases, an invalid url in the proxy string eg 'hello', a valid but unreachable url and (possibly?) a third case of a reachable url which does not authorise you to use it. That would be good. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Network proxy, configuration
If the laptop is take home, the user would want to be able to access the internet in public libraries, Macdonalds restaurants, shopping malls, cafes, home etc. To do this they need to be able to disable the proxy. This might be a rarer requirement in this deployment, but it would be interesting to hear how much need there is for it. James Thanks for the background on proxies in Australian schools. Take home is probably a rarer requirement in Australia as you suggest. My understanding is that take home policy in Australia is negotiated separately in each community with the community leaders. I get the impression that not many of laptops are take home. I am guessing that if proxies are an issue in Australia then they are an issue in other places in the world, maybe I am guessing wrong. I think take home internet access is a more important issue than the raw numbers alone would indicate for 2 reasons: 1)The teacher should have familiarity and confidence in the laptop if they are going to teach effectively with it. If they cannot use it at home they are more likely to reject it as a 'toy' computer. 2)I think there are early indications in the research* that the area of learning that computers are most effective is self-directed project-based learning. For me this is not about whether constructivist learning is better than explicit instruction, I believe that both are important. Its just that computers are little better for instruction than a teacher with a blackboard but they are powerful tools for self-directed project-based learning, particularly when used at home. Tony *I can't remember the links but I think its hinted in the Peru, Uruguay and Chile reports. If anybody wants I can look them up. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Network proxy, configuration
Hi, This discussion is making me nervous. The standard model of the XO has been that they are connected to the internet via the school server. Is it proposed to set up this proxy-server as a requirement for all XOs and for the user (primary school children) to have to manage this even when no access to the internet is available or even when that access is provided by the school server? Tony On 03/14/2013 04:35 PM, sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote: In other words, I can't imagine every 6-12 year old student in a school going into the control panel and typing (without error) a load of proxy details. In my experience things like this are incredibly challenging especially because the users cannot relate to the task at hand (unless you want to teach them about computer networks first). ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Network proxy, configuration
On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Tony Anderson tony_ander...@usa.netwrote: Hi, This discussion is making me nervous. The standard model of the XO has been that they are connected to the internet via the school server. Is it proposed to set up this proxy-server as a requirement for all XOs and for the user (primary school children) to have to manage this even when no access to the internet is available or even when that access is provided by the school server? No. This configuration is only needed in environments where there are not school server, and is not possible a automatic configuration. Gonzalo Tony On 03/14/2013 04:35 PM, sugar-devel-request@lists.**sugarlabs.orgsugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.orgwrote: In other words, I can't imagine every 6-12 year old student in a school going into the control panel and typing (without error) a load of proxy details. In my experience things like this are incredibly challenging especially because the users cannot relate to the task at hand (unless you want to teach them about computer networks first). __**_ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.**org Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/**listinfo/sugar-develhttp://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Network proxy, configuration
Hi, Does this mean we will need two signed images, one for the schoolserver and one for the stand-alone XO? Until now, the default configuration has assumed that proxy is provided by the schoolserver. Tony On 03/14/2013 11:17 PM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Tony Anderson tony_ander...@usa.net mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net wrote: Hi, This discussion is making me nervous. The standard model of the XO has been that they are connected to the internet via the school server. Is it proposed to set up this proxy-server as a requirement for all XOs and for the user (primary school children) to have to manage this even when no access to the internet is available or even when that access is provided by the school server? No. This configuration is only needed in environments where there are not school server, and is not possible a automatic configuration. Gonzalo Tony On 03/14/2013 04:35 PM, sugar-devel-request@lists.__sugarlabs.org mailto:sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote: In other words, I can't imagine every 6-12 year old student in a school going into the control panel and typing (without error) a load of proxy details. In my experience things like this are incredibly challenging especially because the users cannot relate to the task at hand (unless you want to teach them about computer networks first). _ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.__org mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/__listinfo/sugar-devel http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
