Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar-devel] Proposal: moving "assisting mentors" back to role for GSoC 2020
n argue about assistant > mentorship. > > Regards > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 12:23 PM Lionel Laské <[3] > lionel.la...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi James, > > Thanks for this. > > I think that assisting mentor notion has no sense. > We need to have one mentor that lead the project with some > co-mentors to supply him when/if he's unavailable. Each mentor > could ask help or advice to other members of the community if > needed, we don't need to identify these guys as "Assisting > mentor". > > As Stephanie said in the thread you mention: "Unfortunately some > people want to be a mentor because they think it will look good on > their resume, these are not the folks you want to be mentoring > students.". I'm afraid it's the same thing with "Assisting > mentor". > > Regards. > > Lionel. > > > Le ven. 13 mars 2020 à 08:31, <[4] > sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org> a écrit : > > Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:55:16 +1100 > From: James Cameron <[5]qu...@laptop.org> > To: [6]sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > Subject: [Sugar-devel] Proposal: moving "assisting mentors" > back to > the community role for GSoC 2020 > Message-ID: <[7]20200313055516.gm28...@laptop.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Walter and I are your organisation administrators for GSoC > 2020. > > On the GSoc Mentors mailing list from 8th March and still > going > is a > thread "Deadline to invite mentors" which morphed into the > expertise > required of mentors to do a project [1]. > > After putting forward the Sugar Labs compromise practice of > "coding > mentors" and "assistant mentors", there has been both > criticism > and > support for the practice from other organisation > administrators. The > criticism has been voluminous and well stated. The support > comparatively muted. > > I'd like to hear what the Sugar Labs community thinks now. > > The effect of the change [2] can be seen here [3]. > > In implementing the change we would; > > - require _all_ project communication to be carried out in the > open, > on GitHub, mailing list, or IRC, > > - expect the previous assistant mentors to either promote > themselves > to the position of mentor by showing their expertise, or be > content > with participation within the wider Sugar Labs community. > > - remove from the dashboard the previous assistant mentors who > are no > longer listed against a project, > > What do you think? > > References: > > 1. [8]https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ > google-summer-of-code-mentors-list/ > > CAJzXzVEkw%2BOT6nSXvTraNaNqNdR6h0mbjFtaejJcUnueU4YX4Q%40mail.gmail.com > > 2. [9]https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/pull/94 > > 3. [10]https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/tree/simplify > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > [11]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > [12]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > References: > > [1] > https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/pull/94/commits/d4ef7c33eeb2e1c2c36156c8abee3062f49d89e8#r392238290 > [2] mailto:samsongo...@sugarlabs.org > [3] mailto:lionel.la...@gmail.com > [4] mailto:sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org > [5] mailto:qu...@laptop.org > [6] mailto:sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > [7] mailto:20200313055516.gm28...@laptop.org > [8] > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-summer-of-code-mentors-list/CAJzXzVEkw%2BOT6nSXvTraNaNqNdR6h0mbjFtaejJcUnueU4YX4Q%40mail.gmail.com > [9] https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/pull/94 > [10] https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/tree/simplify > [11] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > [12] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- James Cameron http://quozl.netrek.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar-devel] Proposal: moving "assisting mentors" back to role for GSoC 2020
Hi, I expect that the project "## Music Blocks Scale Degree vs n^th Modal P itch" would be near impossible without my assistance. Also, my resume is never benefited thus far from any of these things. I have never gotten a job from putting these things on a resume. The "problem" is that I identify myself as a musician, and music career jobs do not care to see GSoC on the resume. At any rate, I am happy to help. In particular, I want to stamp out this design issue as it is it seems to me to be the last big design issue for all the basic functions of a visual programming language. Devin On Fri, 2020-03-13 at 09:27 -0400, Walter Bender wrote: > I think it is not hard to judge who wants to mentor from passion vs > something to put on a resume. Let's leave it to the project leaders > to make those calls. That said, mentors should have demonstrable > experience of relevant contributions. > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 8:02 AM Samson Goddy > rg> wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > > > The quicker we understand that Sugar Labs is an "educational > > project," then the better for us, we have been battling on matters > > that in "my opinion" is pointless. That said, First, I don't > > understand the whole point for labeling someone an "assistant > > mentor," this is a community we need to be sensitive to what put > > out there. First, I listed myself as an "assistant mentor" not > > because I cannot code, but because I am focusing on the other part > > of the "community" which is keeping things healthy and welcoming, > > we are all volunteers, we should respect that fact. > > > > Honestly removing me from GSoC because of "expect the previous > > assistant mentors to either promote themselves to the position of > > mentor by showing their expertise or be content with participation > > within the wider Sugar Labs community." At the same time, I can > > easily prove that by sending PRs, I don't think the same applies to > > folks that cannot code, again I wasn't born in the 80s, but I am > > sure in 2020, there is more aspect to software than just coding. > > Let us stop doing things that will drive folks away; everyone is > > important. > > > > > > I am not an org admin; I grew up with Sugar, correctly understand > > how Sugar was created but chose to focus primarily on something > > that will keep "Sugar Labs" healthy. I don't see how having extra > > folks into a project as "mentors" will hurt the student > > performance. It gives the student a more broad knowledge of what to > > do to make the project usable, maintainable, and scalable. > > > > > > We have more important things to focus on than argue about > > assistant mentorship. > > > > Regards > > > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 12:23 PM Lionel Laské > > om> wrote: > > > > > > Hi James, > > > > > > Thanks for this. > > > > > > I think that assisting mentor notion has no sense. > > > We need to have one mentor that lead the project with some co- > > > mentors to supply him when/if he's unavailable. Each mentor could > > > ask help or advice to other members of the community if needed, > > > we don't need to identify these guys as "Assisting mentor". > > > > > > As Stephanie said in the thread you mention: "Unfortunately some > > > people want to be a mentor because they think it will look good > > > on their resume, these are not the folks you want to be mentoring > > > students.". I'm afraid it's the same thing with "Assisting > > > mentor". > > > > > > Regards. > > > > > > Lionel. > > > > > > > > > Le ven. 13 mars 2020 à 08:31, > > > s.org> a écrit : > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:55:16 +1100 > > > > From: James Cameron > > > > To: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > > > > Subject: [Sugar-devel] Proposal: moving "assisting mentors" > > > > back to > > > > the community role for GSoC 2020 > > > > Message-ID: <20200313055516.gm28...@laptop.org> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > > > > > Walter and I are your organisation administrators for GSoC > > > > 2020. > > > > > > > > On the GSoc Mentors mailing list from 8th March and still going > > > > is a > > > > thread "Deadline to invite me
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar-devel] Proposal: moving "assisting mentors" back to role for GSoC 2020
I think it is not hard to judge who wants to mentor from passion vs something to put on a resume. Let's leave it to the project leaders to make those calls. That said, mentors should have demonstrable experience of relevant contributions. On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 8:02 AM Samson Goddy wrote: > Hello everyone, > > The quicker we understand that Sugar Labs is an "educational project," > then the better for us, we have been battling on matters that in "my > opinion" is pointless. That said, First, I don't understand the whole > point for labeling someone an "assistant mentor," this is a community we > need to be sensitive to what put out there. First, I listed myself as an > "assistant mentor" not because I cannot code, but because I am focusing on > the other part of the "community" which is keeping things healthy and > welcoming, we are all volunteers, we should respect that fact. > > Honestly removing me from GSoC because of "expect the previous assistant > mentors to either promote themselves to the position of mentor by showing > their expertise or be content with participation within the wider Sugar > Labs community." At the same time, I can easily prove that by sending PRs, > I don't think the same applies to folks that cannot code, again I wasn't > born in the 80s, but I am sure in 2020, there is more aspect to software > than just coding. Let us stop doing things that will drive folks away; > everyone is important. > > > I am not an org admin; I grew up with Sugar, correctly understand how > Sugar was created but chose to focus primarily on something that will keep > "Sugar Labs" healthy. I don't see how having extra folks into a project as > "mentors" will hurt the student performance. It gives the student a more > broad knowledge of what to do to make the project usable, maintainable, and > scalable. > > > We have more important things to focus on than argue about assistant > mentorship. > > Regards > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 12:23 PM Lionel Laské > wrote: > >> >> Hi James, >> >> Thanks for this. >> >> I think that assisting mentor notion has no sense. >> We need to have one mentor that lead the project with some co-mentors to >> supply him when/if he's unavailable. Each mentor could ask help or advice >> to other members of the community if needed, we don't need to identify >> these guys as "Assisting mentor". >> >> As Stephanie said in the thread you mention: "Unfortunately some people >> want to be a mentor because they think it will look good on their resume, >> these are not the folks you want to be mentoring students.". I'm afraid >> it's the same thing with "Assisting mentor". >> >> Regards. >> >> Lionel. >> >> >> Le ven. 13 mars 2020 à 08:31, >> a écrit : >> >>> >>> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:55:16 +1100 >>> From: James Cameron >>> To: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >>> Subject: [Sugar-devel] Proposal: moving "assisting mentors" back to >>> the community role for GSoC 2020 >>> Message-ID: <20200313055516.gm28...@laptop.org> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>> Walter and I are your organisation administrators for GSoC 2020. >>> >>> On the GSoc Mentors mailing list from 8th March and still going is a >>> thread "Deadline to invite mentors" which morphed into the expertise >>> required of mentors to do a project [1]. >>> >>> After putting forward the Sugar Labs compromise practice of "coding >>> mentors" and "assistant mentors", there has been both criticism and >>> support for the practice from other organisation administrators. The >>> criticism has been voluminous and well stated. The support >>> comparatively muted. >>> >>> I'd like to hear what the Sugar Labs community thinks now. >>> >>> The effect of the change [2] can be seen here [3]. >>> >>> In implementing the change we would; >>> >>> - require _all_ project communication to be carried out in the open, >>> on GitHub, mailing list, or IRC, >>> >>> - expect the previous assistant mentors to either promote themselves >>> to the position of mentor by showing their expertise, or be content >>> with participation within the wider Sugar Labs community. >>> >>> - remove from the dashboard the previous assistant mentors who are no >>> longer listed against a proj
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar-devel] Proposal: moving "assisting mentors" back to role for GSoC 2020
Hello everyone, The quicker we understand that Sugar Labs is an "educational project," then the better for us, we have been battling on matters that in "my opinion" is pointless. That said, First, I don't understand the whole point for labeling someone an "assistant mentor," this is a community we need to be sensitive to what put out there. First, I listed myself as an "assistant mentor" not because I cannot code, but because I am focusing on the other part of the "community" which is keeping things healthy and welcoming, we are all volunteers, we should respect that fact. Honestly removing me from GSoC because of "expect the previous assistant mentors to either promote themselves to the position of mentor by showing their expertise or be content with participation within the wider Sugar Labs community." At the same time, I can easily prove that by sending PRs, I don't think the same applies to folks that cannot code, again I wasn't born in the 80s, but I am sure in 2020, there is more aspect to software than just coding. Let us stop doing things that will drive folks away; everyone is important. I am not an org admin; I grew up with Sugar, correctly understand how Sugar was created but chose to focus primarily on something that will keep "Sugar Labs" healthy. I don't see how having extra folks into a project as "mentors" will hurt the student performance. It gives the student a more broad knowledge of what to do to make the project usable, maintainable, and scalable. We have more important things to focus on than argue about assistant mentorship. Regards On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 12:23 PM Lionel Laské wrote: > > Hi James, > > Thanks for this. > > I think that assisting mentor notion has no sense. > We need to have one mentor that lead the project with some co-mentors to > supply him when/if he's unavailable. Each mentor could ask help or advice > to other members of the community if needed, we don't need to identify > these guys as "Assisting mentor". > > As Stephanie said in the thread you mention: "Unfortunately some people > want to be a mentor because they think it will look good on their resume, > these are not the folks you want to be mentoring students.". I'm afraid > it's the same thing with "Assisting mentor". > > Regards. > > Lionel. > > > Le ven. 13 mars 2020 à 08:31, a > écrit : > >> >> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:55:16 +1100 >> From: James Cameron >> To: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >> Subject: [Sugar-devel] Proposal: moving "assisting mentors" back to >> the community role for GSoC 2020 >> Message-ID: <20200313055516.gm28...@laptop.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Walter and I are your organisation administrators for GSoC 2020. >> >> On the GSoc Mentors mailing list from 8th March and still going is a >> thread "Deadline to invite mentors" which morphed into the expertise >> required of mentors to do a project [1]. >> >> After putting forward the Sugar Labs compromise practice of "coding >> mentors" and "assistant mentors", there has been both criticism and >> support for the practice from other organisation administrators. The >> criticism has been voluminous and well stated. The support >> comparatively muted. >> >> I'd like to hear what the Sugar Labs community thinks now. >> >> The effect of the change [2] can be seen here [3]. >> >> In implementing the change we would; >> >> - require _all_ project communication to be carried out in the open, >> on GitHub, mailing list, or IRC, >> >> - expect the previous assistant mentors to either promote themselves >> to the position of mentor by showing their expertise, or be content >> with participation within the wider Sugar Labs community. >> >> - remove from the dashboard the previous assistant mentors who are no >> longer listed against a project, >> >> What do you think? >> >> >> References: >> >> 1. >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-summer-of-code-mentors-list/CAJzXzVEkw%2BOT6nSXvTraNaNqNdR6h0mbjFtaejJcUnueU4YX4Q%40mail.gmail.com >> >> 2. https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/pull/94 >> >> 3. https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/tree/simplify >> >> -- >> James Cameron >> http://quozl.netrek.org/ >> >> >> ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- --- Oversight Board Member at Sugar Labs ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar-devel] Proposal: moving "assisting mentors" back to role for GSoC 2020
Hi James, Thanks for this. I think that assisting mentor notion has no sense. We need to have one mentor that lead the project with some co-mentors to supply him when/if he's unavailable. Each mentor could ask help or advice to other members of the community if needed, we don't need to identify these guys as "Assisting mentor". As Stephanie said in the thread you mention: "Unfortunately some people want to be a mentor because they think it will look good on their resume, these are not the folks you want to be mentoring students.". I'm afraid it's the same thing with "Assisting mentor". Regards. Lionel. Le ven. 13 mars 2020 à 08:31, a écrit : > > Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:55:16 +1100 > From: James Cameron > To: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > Subject: [Sugar-devel] Proposal: moving "assisting mentors" back to > the community role for GSoC 2020 > Message-ID: <20200313055516.gm28...@laptop.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Walter and I are your organisation administrators for GSoC 2020. > > On the GSoc Mentors mailing list from 8th March and still going is a > thread "Deadline to invite mentors" which morphed into the expertise > required of mentors to do a project [1]. > > After putting forward the Sugar Labs compromise practice of "coding > mentors" and "assistant mentors", there has been both criticism and > support for the practice from other organisation administrators. The > criticism has been voluminous and well stated. The support > comparatively muted. > > I'd like to hear what the Sugar Labs community thinks now. > > The effect of the change [2] can be seen here [3]. > > In implementing the change we would; > > - require _all_ project communication to be carried out in the open, > on GitHub, mailing list, or IRC, > > - expect the previous assistant mentors to either promote themselves > to the position of mentor by showing their expertise, or be content > with participation within the wider Sugar Labs community. > > - remove from the dashboard the previous assistant mentors who are no > longer listed against a project, > > What do you think? > > > References: > > 1. > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-summer-of-code-mentors-list/CAJzXzVEkw%2BOT6nSXvTraNaNqNdR6h0mbjFtaejJcUnueU4YX4Q%40mail.gmail.com > > 2. https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/pull/94 > > 3. https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC/tree/simplify > > -- > James Cameron > http://quozl.netrek.org/ > > > ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
