Re: [Sugar-devel] Home button in browse - toolbar images
Lucien: I have added the patches to http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10364 Can you review it? If you will create a branch 0.90, probably must be done before pushing this tickets. Please give me feedback about your plans. Thanks! Gonzalo ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home button in browse - toolbar images
On 22 October 2010 12:05, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote: Lucien: I have added the patches to http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10364 Can you review it? Patch looks good, but it makes the toolbar extremely crowded. I'll accept it for now, with the caveat of having a Browse toolbar overhaul as soon as I get time for the other pressing issues (browse tab crash and read brokenness). If you will create a branch 0.90, probably must be done before pushing this tickets. Yes, the home button thing should certainly be in a new branch. I'll make the 0.90 branch when I get home (no git env here). Or if you have access, you can create a branch yourself in the mainline repository. Please give me feedback about your plans. Thanks! Gonzalo ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home button in browse - toolbar images
On 10/22/2010 01:32 PM, Lucian Branescu wrote: On 22 October 2010 12:05, Gonzalo Odiardgonz...@laptop.org wrote: Lucien: I have added the patches to http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10364 Can you review it? Patch looks good, but it makes the toolbar extremely crowded. I'll accept it for now, with the caveat of having a Browse toolbar overhaul as soon as I get time for the other pressing issues (browse tab crash and read brokenness). Yes, +1 here. We should think about how we make the bar less crowded. I think we can think as well about how tabs are represented. In the Sugar case we might do differently (thumbs like we do for the session bookmarks for example). If you will create a branch 0.90, probably must be done before pushing this tickets. Yes, the home button thing should certainly be in a new branch. I'll make the 0.90 branch when I get home (no git env here). Or if you have access, you can create a branch yourself in the mainline repository. +1 from me. Ok, I will show Gonzalo to do that after lunch... Regards, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home button in browse - toolbar images
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Lucian Branescu lucian.brane...@gmail.comwrote: On 22 October 2010 12:05, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote: Lucien: I have added the patches to http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10364 Can you review it? Patch looks good, but it makes the toolbar extremely crowded. I'll accept it for now, with the caveat of having a Browse toolbar overhaul as soon as I get time for the other pressing issues (browse tab crash and read brokenness). Ok, if you want I can push it in 0.84 branch. I agree with you, we must work in the toolbar. Gonzalo ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home button in browse - toolbar images
On 22 October 2010 12:44, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Lucian Branescu lucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote: On 22 October 2010 12:05, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote: Lucien: I have added the patches to http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10364 Can you review it? Patch looks good, but it makes the toolbar extremely crowded. I'll accept it for now, with the caveat of having a Browse toolbar overhaul as soon as I get time for the other pressing issues (browse tab crash and read brokenness). Ok, if you want I can push it in 0.84 branch. You should make a 0.90 branch first and then push your patch to the master branch. We want to keep the 0.90 branch stable and only put in manageable and low-risk fixes. If you don't know how to make a branch, you'll have to wait 8-9h until I get home. I agree with you, we must work in the toolbar. Gonzalo ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home button in browse - toolbar images
On 10/22/2010 01:49 PM, Lucian Branescu wrote: On 22 October 2010 12:44, Gonzalo Odiardgonz...@laptop.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Lucian Branesculucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote: On 22 October 2010 12:05, Gonzalo Odiardgonz...@laptop.org wrote: Lucien: I have added the patches to http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10364 Can you review it? Patch looks good, but it makes the toolbar extremely crowded. I'll accept it for now, with the caveat of having a Browse toolbar overhaul as soon as I get time for the other pressing issues (browse tab crash and read brokenness). Ok, if you want I can push it in 0.84 branch. You should make a 0.90 branch first and then push your patch to the master branch. We want to keep the 0.90 branch stable and only put in manageable and low-risk fixes. We have done it - so everything is in place. Now we just need a new shiny 0.90 release :) Have a nice weekend, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home button in browse - toolbar images
On 19 Oct 2010, at 22:42, Lucian Branescu wrote: 2010/10/19 NoiseEHC noise...@freemail.hu: You could just make the new tab show the home url by default. It already does. LOL :D FWIW: I've not yet seen the new tab button in action as it's always been disabled in the Sugar builds I've tried due to the (I think) version dependancy crash on tab close bug. Still, 'add tab' is not really a great UI for getting to the home page, if that's what deployments are asking for, so I think a home button and some free up of toolbar space is still needed. Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home button in browse - toolbar images
On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 03:01 +0100, Gary Martin wrote: Alternatively, the new tab button could become a small plus on the tab bar, which could be made visible at all times. For how long would it remain invisible during a normal session? Hmmm -1 from me as that would require showing the tab strip at all times, even if only one tab is in use, making the default UI more complicated and eating back into canvas space. But you missed my rhetoric question: for how long would it remain invisible during a normal session?. All UI designers seem to abhor tabs. They call them complicated and unnecessary, but all users love them, including UI designers themselves! Ok, but our users are children. Well, have you actually seen a child use Firefox? Children aren't stupid, they use tabs for browsing just like adults. Actually even *more* than adults, 'cause they get bored of waiting for pages to load much sooner. In the real world, after the first few minutes there will be so many tabs open that they won't fit horizontally. Tabbed browsing is the #1 reason why Nepal and other deployments replaced Browse with the Firefox activity. 1) Just because in your builds you decided to disable the screen hot corners from triggering the frame doesn't mean that it is now free space up for grabs ;) Ouch... Forgot about that. (still, we have way too much space on the sides. It could fit an entire button. 2) Corners are used by the notification system. Ok, but those last only a few seconds. 3) Using that space for more buttons does not solve the feature creep, and spiral towards complexity. If we were to remove the least useful feature, I'd pick the home button :-) Even if we don't add any button, we could use the extra space just to enlarge the URL bar... -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home button in browse - toolbar images
You could just make the new tab show the home url by default. On 2010.10.19. 6:15, Bernie Innocenti wrote: On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 03:01 +0100, Gary Martin wrote: Alternatively, the new tab button could become a small plus on the tab bar, which could be made visible at all times. For how long would it remain invisible during a normal session? Hmmm -1 from me as that would require showing the tab strip at all times, even if only one tab is in use, making the default UI more complicated and eating back into canvas space. But you missed my rhetoric question: for how long would it remain invisible during a normal session?. All UI designers seem to abhor tabs. They call them complicated and unnecessary, but all users love them, including UI designers themselves! Ok, but our users are children. Well, have you actually seen a child use Firefox? Children aren't stupid, they use tabs for browsing just like adults. Actually even *more* than adults, 'cause they get bored of waiting for pages to load much sooner. In the real world, after the first few minutes there will be so many tabs open that they won't fit horizontally. Tabbed browsing is the #1 reason why Nepal and other deployments replaced Browse with the Firefox activity. 1) Just because in your builds you decided to disable the screen hot corners from triggering the frame doesn't mean that it is now free space up for grabs ;) Ouch... Forgot about that. (still, we have way too much space on the sides. It could fit an entire button. 2) Corners are used by the notification system. Ok, but those last only a few seconds. 3) Using that space for more buttons does not solve the feature creep, and spiral towards complexity. If we were to remove the least useful feature, I'd pick the home button :-) Even if we don't add any button, we could use the extra space just to enlarge the URL bar... ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home button in browse - toolbar images
2010/10/19 NoiseEHC noise...@freemail.hu: You could just make the new tab show the home url by default. It already does. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home button in browse - toolbar images
On 14 Oct 2010, at 23:35, Lucian Branescu wrote: On 14 October 2010 19:47, Gary Martin garycmar...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Gonzalo, On 5 Oct 2010, at 20:32, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: Gary: Here are the screenshots. I comented a check of cairo version to add the tabs button. toolbar-browse-0.90.png and toolbar-browse-0.84.png are with the emulator at 1200x900 browse-90-in-sugar-emulator.png and browse-90-in-emulator-without-tabs.png are the worst case, sugar-emulator by default. I don't know if is a real case. I've tinkered with Browse on an XO-1 to fake the extra home and tab button so we are looking at our most likely common usage environment (as XO-1/1.5 folks upgrade Sugar). The stop button does not fall off the end in this case, though the search field is much smaller than I'd like to be honest. As an emergency stop gap before we can code the reload/stop icon to move into the URL input location (as per the clear icon in Sugar search fields), it is at least a feasible option. FWIW under Simon's 0.90 F14 XO-1 builds the add new tab icon is auto disabled (due to some other tab/api bug avoidance), so there is a at least little more space for the location field. What is the target deployment you have in mind? One of the Dextrose builds? Note: I think Lucian mentioned he might be considering making the add new tab icon into a sub toolbar reveal, so that he has space for the add, remove, next, last tab features (see Terminal for the example tab control use case). If he is really considering this soon ;) then it might be better to move the add new tab icon over to where I have placed the go-home icon, and move the go-home icon over to where the add tab icon is placed (so the primary toolbar icons with sub-toolbars are all together on the left). I'd swap them anyway, Home makes sense to be next to Back/Forward. However, I'm really not satisfied with the amount of space left for the URL bar. Yes agreed, toolbar complexity is my other worry (too many tool icons at the top level). I could maybe add reload and home in a toolbar, The feature that strikes me as most complex is the new add tab feature, I know many adults who do not understand this feature. How about we move the add tab button down into the View sub-toolbar? The other tab navigation tools could also go there in the future. Seems to be a reasonable grouping to me along with the existing Zoom out, Zoom in, Fullscreen, Show/Hide Tray view features. or add a small stop/reload button inside the URL bar (but I'm not sure such useful features should be hidden so well). I'd vote +.9 for this, I'd rather we didn't have to use another UI button design vs. nice large (finger sized) toolbar bar buttons, but Sugar does already use this design for adding the Clear (x) widget in to the right of all Search fields – and we really do need to save the space in the Browse toolbar now that some deployment folks are calling for the addition of a home button. Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home button in browse - toolbar images
On Mon, 2010-10-18 at 14:20 +0100, Gary Martin wrote: I'd swap them anyway, Home makes sense to be next to Back/Forward. However, I'm really not satisfied with the amount of space left for the URL bar. Yes agreed, toolbar complexity is my other worry (too many tool icons at the top level). FWIW, I agree too. For reference, this is what the toolbar looks like now: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Dextrose_tabbed_browsing.png The feature that strikes me as most complex is the new add tab feature, I know many adults who do not understand this feature. How about we move the add tab button down into the View sub-toolbar? The other tab navigation tools could also go there in the future. Seems to be a reasonable grouping to me along with the existing Zoom out, Zoom in, Fullscreen, Show/Hide Tray view features. Agreed. Alternatively, the new tab button could become a small plus on the tab bar, which could be made visible at all times. For how long would it remain invisible during a normal session? or add a small stop/reload button inside the URL bar (but I'm not sure such useful features should be hidden so well). I wonder if we could also fold the star button for bookmarks inside the omnibox, like Firefox does. I'd vote +.9 for this, I'd rather we didn't have to use another UI button design vs. nice large (finger sized) toolbar bar buttons, but Sugar does already use this design for adding the Clear (x) widget in to the right of all Search fields – and we really do need to save the space in the Browse toolbar now that some deployment folks are calling for the addition of a home button. Removing one big button from the toolbar and putting a tiny one in the URL bar *will* result in more space for the URL bar! Another good way to save space: there seems to be too much empty space on the sides of the main toolbar. Can it be reduced a little? -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home button in browse - toolbar images
On 18 Oct 2010, at 16:42, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: On Mon, 2010-10-18 at 14:20 +0100, Gary Martin wrote: I'd swap them anyway, Home makes sense to be next to Back/Forward. However, I'm really not satisfied with the amount of space left for the URL bar. Yes agreed, toolbar complexity is my other worry (too many tool icons at the top level). FWIW, I agree too. For reference, this is what the toolbar looks like now: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Dextrose_tabbed_browsing.png The feature that strikes me as most complex is the new add tab feature, I know many adults who do not understand this feature. How about we move the add tab button down into the View sub-toolbar? The other tab navigation tools could also go there in the future. Seems to be a reasonable grouping to me along with the existing Zoom out, Zoom in, Fullscreen, Show/Hide Tray view features. Agreed. Alternatively, the new tab button could become a small plus on the tab bar, which could be made visible at all times. For how long would it remain invisible during a normal session? Hmmm -1 from me as that would require showing the tab strip at all times, even if only one tab is in use, making the default UI more complicated and eating back into canvas space. or add a small stop/reload button inside the URL bar (but I'm not sure such useful features should be hidden so well). I wonder if we could also fold the star button for bookmarks inside the omnibox, like Firefox does. Not sure I've seen that, will try and take a look. I'd vote +.9 for this, I'd rather we didn't have to use another UI button design vs. nice large (finger sized) toolbar bar buttons, but Sugar does already use this design for adding the Clear (x) widget in to the right of all Search fields – and we really do need to save the space in the Browse toolbar now that some deployment folks are calling for the addition of a home button. Removing one big button from the toolbar and putting a tiny one in the URL bar *will* result in more space for the URL bar! Another good way to save space: there seems to be too much empty space on the sides of the main toolbar. Can it be reduced a little? 1) Just because in your builds you decided to disable the screen hot corners from triggering the frame doesn't mean that it is now free space up for grabs ;) 2) Corners are used by the notification system. 3) Using that space for more buttons does not solve the feature creep, and spiral towards complexity. Regards, --Gary -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home button in browse - toolbar images
On 14 October 2010 19:47, Gary Martin garycmar...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Gonzalo, On 5 Oct 2010, at 20:32, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: Gary: Here are the screenshots. I comented a check of cairo version to add the tabs button. toolbar-browse-0.90.png and toolbar-browse-0.84.png are with the emulator at 1200x900 browse-90-in-sugar-emulator.png and browse-90-in-emulator-without-tabs.png are the worst case, sugar-emulator by default. I don't know if is a real case. I've tinkered with Browse on an XO-1 to fake the extra home and tab button so we are looking at our most likely common usage environment (as XO-1/1.5 folks upgrade Sugar). The stop button does not fall off the end in this case, though the search field is much smaller than I'd like to be honest. As an emergency stop gap before we can code the reload/stop icon to move into the URL input location (as per the clear icon in Sugar search fields), it is at least a feasible option. FWIW under Simon's 0.90 F14 XO-1 builds the add new tab icon is auto disabled (due to some other tab/api bug avoidance), so there is a at least little more space for the location field. What is the target deployment you have in mind? One of the Dextrose builds? Note: I think Lucian mentioned he might be considering making the add new tab icon into a sub toolbar reveal, so that he has space for the add, remove, next, last tab features (see Terminal for the example tab control use case). If he is really considering this soon ;) then it might be better to move the add new tab icon over to where I have placed the go-home icon, and move the go-home icon over to where the add tab icon is placed (so the primary toolbar icons with sub-toolbars are all together on the left). I'd swap them anyway, Home makes sense to be next to Back/Forward. However, I'm really not satisfied with the amount of space left for the URL bar. I could maybe add reload and home in a toolbar, or add a small stop/reload button inside the URL bar (but I'm not sure such useful features should be hidden so well). ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home button in browse - toolbar images
The house icon was a mistake, I didn't used the last, but to see the distribution it's the same. Gonzalo ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Home button in browse - toolbar images
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote: Gary: Here are the screenshots. I comented a check of cairo version to add the tabs button. toolbar-browse-0.90.png and toolbar-browse-0.84.png are with the emulator at 1200x900 browse-90-in-sugar-emulator.png and browse-90-in-emulator-without-tabs.png are the worst case, sugar-emulator by default. I don't know if is a real case. Regards Gonzalo Perhaps the view sub-toolbar icons could be transferred to left side on the Activity sub-toolbar to make more space on the primary toolbar. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
