Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Developer MINUTES

2009-05-25 Thread NoiseEHC


 I hope this anwers your question,
Simon



Unfortunately it does not. What I wanted to know whether I will be able 
to use the latest Sugar on my XO-1 ever. It boots the kernel with 802 so 
it is a working Linux distribution. If somehow I copy the latest Sugar 
over the old Sugar (0.82 I think) will it work? If it does not work then 
will anybody port it? What I see is that OLPC has very few developers so 
probably this porting work will be out of question but will Sugar people 
make any effort or would it be just wasting their time where the XO-1.5 
is almost finished?

ps:
If overwriting the old Sugar works on an XO-1 then an unzippable 
distribution what could be applied to 802 would be just fine...
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Developer MINUTES

2009-05-25 Thread Marten Vijn
On Mon, 2009-05-25 at 15:42 +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
 [adding sugar-devel again to CC]
 
 On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 14:36, Marten Vijn i...@martenvijn.nl wrote:
  On Mon, 2009-05-25 at 11:49 +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
  On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 11:34, NoiseEHC noise...@freemail.hu wrote:
cut
 
  Just copying files is unlikely to work. Regarding newer versions of
  Sugar working in the XO-1, I personally think it's very important and
  hope that others share this opinion
 
  I would love to see something an update kernel (OpenBSD) or mini-dist to
  roll out never version.
 
   and will contribute their time and
  skills to make it happen.
 
  Well I can help testing (or learn C, but that will take a while ;( )
 
 Well, for this task (shipping an updated or new distro for the XO)
 there's little need for programming skills, it's mostly a matter of
 having someone who leads the effort and recruits people to help with
 the various tasks, give publicity to the effort, keep track of the
 open issues in the different bug trackers involved, help with
 packaging, do integration testing, etc.

oke, from a side of a none developer, I would be good, a list of tasks
to:
- to do meself
- point people to

For me is hard to so see what is needed and to move to the right
direction. Knowing a bit from linux it is best to avoid dist-wars. 

I 'll check the wiki and look/create for a task list. IHMO tasks shoud
be:
- do-able (beginning / end / clear steps)
- supported by a person
- avoiding flames/wars whatever negative energie
- complexicity index.

Am I correct (by kind of consensus) that a tasklist would help?


 That's why people are barking at the wrong tree when they say that
 Sugar developers should port Sugar to whatever system. The skills
 involved are very different from upstream work and if coders are not
 coding we won't have anything new to ship.
  

If barking ever applies me to please let me know. My intention is to
have usable contributions to our project. 


Kind regards,
Marten






 Regards,
 
 Tomeu
 
  Marten
 
  Regards,
 
  Tomeu
 
   ps:
   If overwriting the old Sugar works on an XO-1 then an unzippable
   distribution what could be applied to 802 would be just fine...
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http://martenvijn.nl
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Developer MINUTES

2009-05-25 Thread Tomeu Vizoso
On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 16:25, Marten Vijn i...@martenvijn.nl wrote:
 On Mon, 2009-05-25 at 15:42 +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
 [adding sugar-devel again to CC]

 On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 14:36, Marten Vijn i...@martenvijn.nl wrote:
  On Mon, 2009-05-25 at 11:49 +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
  On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 11:34, NoiseEHC noise...@freemail.hu wrote:
 cut
 
  Just copying files is unlikely to work. Regarding newer versions of
  Sugar working in the XO-1, I personally think it's very important and
  hope that others share this opinion
 
  I would love to see something an update kernel (OpenBSD) or mini-dist to
  roll out never version.
 
   and will contribute their time and
  skills to make it happen.
 
  Well I can help testing (or learn C, but that will take a while ;( )

 Well, for this task (shipping an updated or new distro for the XO)
 there's little need for programming skills, it's mostly a matter of
 having someone who leads the effort and recruits people to help with
 the various tasks, give publicity to the effort, keep track of the
 open issues in the different bug trackers involved, help with
 packaging, do integration testing, etc.

 oke, from a side of a none developer, I would be good, a list of tasks
 to:
 - to do meself
 - point people to

Cool! I think that this is done better in a per team basis, so that
people can have a closer contact with a subset of the community that
better fits their experience and interests.

You are already pretty much involved in the marketing team, but there
are others in case you want to do something different.

Each team has a getting involved page, a roadmap and a todo list in the wiki:

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activity_Team/Getting_Involved
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activity_Team/TODO
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activity_Team/Roadmap

 For me is hard to so see what is needed and to move to the right
 direction. Knowing a bit from linux it is best to avoid dist-wars.

Agreed, it helps having a personal goal related to Sugar, then it's a
matter of seeing which other people are working closer to that goal
and finding common tasks.

 I 'll check the wiki and look/create for a task list. IHMO tasks shoud
 be:
 - do-able (beginning / end / clear steps)
 - supported by a person
 - avoiding flames/wars whatever negative energie
 - complexicity index.

 Am I correct (by kind of consensus) that a tasklist would help?

I think we have consensus on this, only that is quite a bit of work to
maintain all those lists. But is something we'll get better slowly.

 That's why people are barking at the wrong tree when they say that
 Sugar developers should port Sugar to whatever system. The skills
 involved are very different from upstream work and if coders are not
 coding we won't have anything new to ship.


 If barking ever applies me to please let me know. My intention is to
 have usable contributions to our project.

I was referring to some people that tried to put more pressure on
Sugar Labs by saying that we had abandoned the OLPC platform. It's
hard, but IMO a big part of our work is making people understand that
this is an open project and that everyone has the capacity to
contribute, so instead of complaining people should be able to get
their hards dirty and do their bit.

Regards,

Tomeu

 Kind regards,
 Marten






 Regards,

 Tomeu

  Marten
 
  Regards,
 
  Tomeu
 
   ps:
   If overwriting the old Sugar works on an XO-1 then an unzippable
   distribution what could be applied to 802 would be just fine...
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  --
  Marten Vijn
  linux 2.0.18 OpenBSD 3.6 FreeBSD 4.6
  http://martenvijn.nl
  http://opencommunitycamp.org
  http://wifisoft.org
 
 
 
 --
 Marten Vijn
 linux 2.0.18 OpenBSD 3.6 FreeBSD 4.6
 http://martenvijn.nl
 http://opencommunitycamp.org
 http://wifisoft.org



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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Developer MINUTES

2009-05-25 Thread Simon Schampijer
[...]
 That's why people are barking at the wrong tree when they say that
 Sugar developers should port Sugar to whatever system. The skills
 involved are very different from upstream work and if coders are not
 coding we won't have anything new to ship.

 If barking ever applies me to please let me know. My intention is to
 have usable contributions to our project.

 I was referring to some people that tried to put more pressure on
 Sugar Labs by saying that we had abandoned the OLPC platform. It's
 hard, but IMO a big part of our work is making people understand that
 this is an open project and that everyone has the capacity to
 contribute, so instead of complaining people should be able to get
 their hards dirty and do their bit.

 Regards,

 Tomeu

I want to highlight Tomeu's words. There is no them or they! In 
general - people should ask themselves what they can contribute to Sugar 
Labs - not the other way around. And many people are doing that already 
in various ways. Please keep on that path.

Thanks,
Simon
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Developer MINUTES

2009-05-25 Thread Simon Schampijer
On 05/25/2009 11:51 AM, Walter Bender wrote:
 Tomeu was quicker in his response than me...

 As Simon said, the current plan for *both* the XO-1 and the XO-1.5 in
 regard to Sugar support is to build upon the work that OLPC and the
 Fedora communities are doing towards getting a stock Fedora
 distribution running on the hardware. Sugar would be packaged on top
 of that. The current expectation is that this would happen in the F12
 time frame, coincident with the planned Sugar 0.86 release. As far as
 porting Sugar 0.84 natively to the XO-1 hardware, this would require a
 fair amount of work--beyond simply copying the Sugar files. I am
 unaware of anyone working on that port. An interim solution is to run
 Sugar on a Stick. Alternatively, DSD and the Paraguay team have done a
 nice job of repackaging OLPC's 802 build to include some of the
 improvements from Sugar 0.84.

 regards.

 -walter

As Tomeu and Walter said - copying 0.84 over 0.82 won't work. There are 
some dependencies (xulrunner/hulahop, abiword, evince...) - and of 
course - the kernel - the hardware support for the XO. There are efforts 
from Chris Ball and the Fedora-Olpc working group 
(fedora-olpc-l...@redhat.com). Please refer to their work to know the 
current status.

Thanks,
Simon
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Developer MINUTES

2009-05-24 Thread Aleksey Lim
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 08:51:22PM +0200, Simon Schampijer wrote:
 On 05/22/2009 05:31 PM, James Simmons wrote:
  I didn't see Aleksey's espeak gstreamer plugin included in the roadmap.  
  This is needed for text to speech with highlighting support for Read 
  Etexts, and is being included in SoaS now.  I'm looking forward to having a 
  version of Sugar I can install on my XO where this is included.
 
  James Simmons
 
 This might be upstream work - non Sugar platforms can profit from that 
 work as well I guess. Aleksey can you comment - what the plan is here?

Well, gst-espeak is now in SP-0.84 list[1](and will migrate to SP-0.86)
it should mean that if maintainers of any GNU/Linux distribution want
sugar(in wide sense i.e. core+honey) to be runnable they should provide
SP meta package(or so).

At present there are several distributions that satisfy SP:
* Mandriva2009.1
* Caixa Magica 12 Magelan
* ALTLinux Sisyphus
* OpenSUSE X11::Sugar
* Gentoo sugar overlay
* SoaS

Unfortunately I don't know who builds XO distribution
and does it satisfy SP or not.

[1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Sugar_Platform/0.84

-- 
Aleksey
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Developer MINUTES

2009-05-22 Thread James Simmons
I didn't see Aleksey's espeak gstreamer plugin included in the roadmap.  This 
is needed for text to speech with highlighting support for Read Etexts, and is 
being included in SoaS now.  I'm looking forward to having a version of Sugar I 
can install on my XO where this is included.

James Simmons


Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 14:49:01 +0200
From: Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de
Subject: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Developer MINUTES (Thursday May 21 2009 -
14.00   (UTC))
To: Sugar Devel sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
Message-ID: 4a169f3d.3020...@schampijer.de
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Attendees: Tomeu, Aleksey, Walter, Sayamindu, Simon

Retrospect: We have been brainstorming on the Goals of the 0.86 release. 
The Output can be seen at 
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Release/Roadmap/0.86 Feel 
free to add items you feel important to the roadmap - have in mind that 
it is a short release cycle and therefore we have only a certain amount 
of things we can do.

Prospect: Next week we will iter over the points and find owners for the 
them. The time to propose items ends the 5th of June after the 
developers meeting in two weeks. By then each feature item needs a 
concrete plan. Examples: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Library 
or https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/DeviceKit

See you next week - a reminder will be send out.

Regards,
Simon


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Developer MINUTES

2009-05-22 Thread NoiseEHC
Are there any plans to port Sugar to the XO-1 or will it be the job of 
OLPC so it will be effectively abandoned?

Simon Schampijer wrote:
 Attendees: Tomeu, Aleksey, Walter, Sayamindu, Simon

 Retrospect: We have been brainstorming on the Goals of the 0.86 release. 
 The Output can be seen at 
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Release/Roadmap/0.86 Feel 
 free to add items you feel important to the roadmap - have in mind that 
 it is a short release cycle and therefore we have only a certain amount 
 of things we can do.

 Prospect: Next week we will iter over the points and find owners for the 
 them. The time to propose items ends the 5th of June after the 
 developers meeting in two weeks. By then each feature item needs a 
 concrete plan. Examples: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Library 
 or https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/DeviceKit

 See you next week - a reminder will be send out.

 Regards,
 Simon

 PS: The schedule have been updated as well: 
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Release/Roadmap/0.86#Schedule
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Developer MINUTES

2009-05-22 Thread Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero
Hi Noise.

There is and there will be (i presume), a collaboration between the two
teams (OLPC and Sugarlabs), to port sugar to the XO 1.5.

but details on how this will be done are still missing.




Rafael Ortiz


On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 11:43 AM, NoiseEHC noise...@freemail.hu wrote:

 Are there any plans to port Sugar to the XO-1 or will it be the job of
 OLPC so it will be effectively abandoned?

 Simon Schampijer wrote:
  Attendees: Tomeu, Aleksey, Walter, Sayamindu, Simon
 
  Retrospect: We have been brainstorming on the Goals of the 0.86 release.
  The Output can be seen at
  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Release/Roadmap/0.86 Feel
  free to add items you feel important to the roadmap - have in mind that
  it is a short release cycle and therefore we have only a certain amount
  of things we can do.
 
  Prospect: Next week we will iter over the points and find owners for the
  them. The time to propose items ends the 5th of June after the
  developers meeting in two weeks. By then each feature item needs a
  concrete plan. Examples: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Library
  or https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/DeviceKit
 
  See you next week - a reminder will be send out.
 
  Regards,
  Simon
 
  PS: The schedule have been updated as well:
 
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Release/Roadmap/0.86#Schedule
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Developer MINUTES

2009-05-22 Thread David Farning
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 6:43 PM, NoiseEHC noise...@freemail.hu wrote:
 Are there any plans to port Sugar to the XO-1 or will it be the job of
 OLPC so it will be effectively abandoned?

Sugar sits on top of standard linux distributions.

The challenge in this instance is on the shoulders of the hardware
vendor to push the necessary patches, or maintain the fork, necessary
to take advantage of specialized hardware.

david

 Simon Schampijer wrote:
 Attendees: Tomeu, Aleksey, Walter, Sayamindu, Simon

 Retrospect: We have been brainstorming on the Goals of the 0.86 release.
 The Output can be seen at
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Release/Roadmap/0.86 Feel
 free to add items you feel important to the roadmap - have in mind that
 it is a short release cycle and therefore we have only a certain amount
 of things we can do.

 Prospect: Next week we will iter over the points and find owners for the
 them. The time to propose items ends the 5th of June after the
 developers meeting in two weeks. By then each feature item needs a
 concrete plan. Examples: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Library
 or https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/DeviceKit

 See you next week - a reminder will be send out.

 Regards,
     Simon

 PS: The schedule have been updated as well:
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Release/Roadmap/0.86#Schedule
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Developer MINUTES

2009-05-22 Thread Simon Schampijer
On 05/22/2009 07:06 PM, David Farning wrote:
 On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 6:43 PM, NoiseEHCnoise...@freemail.hu  wrote:
 Are there any plans to port Sugar to the XO-1 or will it be the job of
 OLPC so it will be effectively abandoned?

 Sugar sits on top of standard linux distributions.

 The challenge in this instance is on the shoulders of the hardware
 vendor to push the necessary patches, or maintain the fork, necessary
 to take advantage of specialized hardware.

 david

Right, Sugar will work on Fedora - and the plan of OLPC is to use Fedora 
12 in the future and get all the diffs (like Kernel) into Fedora 
mainline. The only job of Sugar itself in order to run on the XO are 
to keep the memory and cpu consumption low.

I hope this anwers your question,
Simon
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Developer MINUTES

2009-05-22 Thread Simon Schampijer
On 05/22/2009 05:31 PM, James Simmons wrote:
 I didn't see Aleksey's espeak gstreamer plugin included in the roadmap.  This 
 is needed for text to speech with highlighting support for Read Etexts, and 
 is being included in SoaS now.  I'm looking forward to having a version of 
 Sugar I can install on my XO where this is included.

 James Simmons

This might be upstream work - non Sugar platforms can profit from that 
work as well I guess. Aleksey can you comment - what the plan is here?

Thanks,
Simon
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Developer MINUTES

2009-05-22 Thread Benjamin M. Schwartz
NoiseEHC wrote:
 Are there any plans to port Sugar to the XO-1 or will it be the job of 
 OLPC so it will be effectively abandoned?

Do you mean the XO-1 or XO-1.5, specifically?  Also, I hope you are aware of

http://blog.printf.net/articles/2009/05/16/the-olpc-xo-1-5-and-fedora-11

which states that OLPC intends to ship Sugar 0.84.

--Ben



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