Re: [sugar] [IAEP] list of complaints from sugarcamp community building talk
Edward Cherlin wrote: On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 2:15 AM, Simon Schampijer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Definitely a problem. We are thinking about having a landing page similar to the one in http://www.eclipse.org/ that hopefully will give a way for everybody to find how to better interact with us depending on their role. The idea is that a prospecting developer would just click on one of those icons and would find a simple explanation of the first concepts that need to be grabbed in order to move forward. How does that sound? olpc-dev list emails are kind of over my head Yeah, we should understand better this issue. Is a coder-newbies mailing list a valid suggestion? Hmmm, I think we should not split those up. In my opinion all we can do, is to point out clearly that all contributions and questions as easy or as hard they are, are valid and welcome. We all started there, and I understand it is not always easy to ask 'stupid' questions, but I think it is important to produce a culture and atmosphere where this is possible. A FAQ will help a lot, particularly if somebody takes ownership and makes sure to capture questions and get answers from the experts. A set of introductory programming manuals on Python, PyGame, SciPy, and Etoys will help more. We can discuss this with FLOSS Manuals. Let Adam Hyde and me know which ones you would like to have, and which ones others ask you for. Sure, manuals and FAQ's are always helpful and the page must be structured in a way that people can find it. I hope that the work that is going into the restructuring will make things better. I am working on creating a newsletter for those interested in joining Sugar work. We have two volunteers so far from Olin Coll. of Eng., motivated by the fact that they can't find the news on OLPC (Who can?) and that they have had difficulties finding out how to participate. Articles on elementary Sugar programming and on opportunities for activities will be welcome, as will progress reports whenever you have a significant accomplishment or need help. I sent over my links to laptop news sources, and some references on a multitude of games that people can program if they like. We will collect many other resources. We will also include suggestions for curriculum, textbooks, and content. The idea is that anybody can participate, because everybody knows something that the children need. In particular we need subject-matter experts (SMEs) in every school subject and every kind of business, research, government, or whatever. Also artists, writers, reviewers, testers, localizers, translators, and so on and on. So I argue, to please use sugar-devel for those discussions. +1 unless the Sugar Newbies tell us otherwise. We also have other lists appropriate for content and the rest. Ok, we had this now several times, I propose the following tags for sugar-devel: [RELEASE] when developers of a sucrose component make a release (this is in use already) --- a packager should have all the information he needs when filtering for those messages [ANNOUNCE] announcements like: a new sucrose release, feature freeze, 0.86 feature process, services outage, upcoming trac activities after a release (to move tickets and clean everything), API changes --- an activity developer should have all the information he needs when only filtering for those information [BEET] (comes from sugar-beet) This is a tag that should be used by beginners questions --- To avoid having an extra list, and to produce a culture of critique Anything I have missed? If there are no objections I will take care to add this to the list info, announce it and note it in appropriate places on the wiki. Thanks, Simon ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] list of complaints from sugarcamp community building talk
Please DON'T introduce more sugarisms like BEET, especially for novices. How are they supposed to know what to put as a tag, even if the tag makes sense? ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] list of complaints from sugarcamp community building talk
Carol Farlow Lerche wrote: Please DON'T introduce more sugarisms like BEET, especially for novices. How are they supposed to know what to put as a tag, even if the tag makes sense? They read it when they subscribe to the mailing list - and find it on the wiki pages for example 'Getting involved'. I don't mean to beet someone when he does not use the tag - but I don't want to create another list neither. Cheers, Simon ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] list of complaints from sugarcamp community building talk
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 08:48, Simon Schampijer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Carol Farlow Lerche wrote: Please DON'T introduce more sugarisms like BEET, especially for novices. How are they supposed to know what to put as a tag, even if the tag makes sense? They read it when they subscribe to the mailing list - and find it on the wiki pages for example 'Getting involved'. I don't mean to beet someone when he does not use the tag - but I don't want to create another list neither. This still raises the bar for asking a question, which is the opposite of what we are trying to accomplish. -lf ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] list of complaints from sugarcamp community building talk
Luke Faraone wrote: On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 08:48, Simon Schampijer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Carol Farlow Lerche wrote: Please DON'T introduce more sugarisms like BEET, especially for novices. How are they supposed to know what to put as a tag, even if the tag makes sense? They read it when they subscribe to the mailing list - and find it on the wiki pages for example 'Getting involved'. I don't mean to beet someone when he does not use the tag - but I don't want to create another list neither. This still raises the bar for asking a question, which is the opposite of what we are trying to accomplish. -lf I mainly was saying, I don't think another list will solve the issue. If people want to do something like Sugar classes or invite new developers at their home for sugar and tea - this sounds more fruitful to me. Cheers, Simon ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] list of complaints from sugarcamp community building talk
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 15:58, Simon Schampijer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Luke Faraone wrote: On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 08:48, Simon Schampijer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Carol Farlow Lerche wrote: Please DON'T introduce more sugarisms like BEET, especially for novices. How are they supposed to know what to put as a tag, even if the tag makes sense? They read it when they subscribe to the mailing list - and find it on the wiki pages for example 'Getting involved'. I don't mean to beet someone when he does not use the tag - but I don't want to create another list neither. This still raises the bar for asking a question, which is the opposite of what we are trying to accomplish. -lf I mainly was saying, I don't think another list will solve the issue. If people want to do something like Sugar classes or invite new developers at their home for sugar and tea - this sounds more fruitful to me. How about [HELP] ? Regards Morgan ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] list of complaints from sugarcamp community building talk
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008, Luke Faraone wrote: On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 11:22, Jameson Chema Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 embedding mibbit or cgiirc in our wiki? I'll work on that in [[IRC]], as well as explaining all the different channels. (this will have some duplication from [[olpc:IRC]]) I think Mibbit, while not FOSS, is superior to CGIIRC, and moreover it is externally hosted by a provider known to freenode. Perhaps we should be adding this work item to the TODO for the Wiki team? --g___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] list of complaints from sugarcamp community building talk
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 2:15 AM, Simon Schampijer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Definitely a problem. We are thinking about having a landing page similar to the one in http://www.eclipse.org/ that hopefully will give a way for everybody to find how to better interact with us depending on their role. The idea is that a prospecting developer would just click on one of those icons and would find a simple explanation of the first concepts that need to be grabbed in order to move forward. How does that sound? olpc-dev list emails are kind of over my head Yeah, we should understand better this issue. Is a coder-newbies mailing list a valid suggestion? Hmmm, I think we should not split those up. In my opinion all we can do, is to point out clearly that all contributions and questions as easy or as hard they are, are valid and welcome. We all started there, and I understand it is not always easy to ask 'stupid' questions, but I think it is important to produce a culture and atmosphere where this is possible. A FAQ will help a lot, particularly if somebody takes ownership and makes sure to capture questions and get answers from the experts. A set of introductory programming manuals on Python, PyGame, SciPy, and Etoys will help more. We can discuss this with FLOSS Manuals. Let Adam Hyde and me know which ones you would like to have, and which ones others ask you for. I am working on creating a newsletter for those interested in joining Sugar work. We have two volunteers so far from Olin Coll. of Eng., motivated by the fact that they can't find the news on OLPC (Who can?) and that they have had difficulties finding out how to participate. Articles on elementary Sugar programming and on opportunities for activities will be welcome, as will progress reports whenever you have a significant accomplishment or need help. I sent over my links to laptop news sources, and some references on a multitude of games that people can program if they like. We will collect many other resources. We will also include suggestions for curriculum, textbooks, and content. The idea is that anybody can participate, because everybody knows something that the children need. In particular we need subject-matter experts (SMEs) in every school subject and every kind of business, research, government, or whatever. Also artists, writers, reviewers, testers, localizers, translators, and so on and on. So I argue, to please use sugar-devel for those discussions. +1 unless the Sugar Newbies tell us otherwise. We also have other lists appropriate for content and the rest. Simon ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] list of complaints from sugarcamp community building talk
On 24 Nov 2008, at 22:04, Edward Cherlin wrote: On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 2:15 AM, Simon Schampijer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Definitely a problem. We are thinking about having a landing page similar to the one in http://www.eclipse.org/ that hopefully will give a way for everybody to find how to better interact with us depending on their role. The idea is that a prospecting developer would just click on one of those icons and would find a simple explanation of the first concepts that need to be grabbed in order to move forward. How does that sound? olpc-dev list emails are kind of over my head Yeah, we should understand better this issue. Is a coder-newbies mailing list a valid suggestion? Hmmm, I think we should not split those up. In my opinion all we can do, is to point out clearly that all contributions and questions as easy or as hard they are, are valid and welcome. We all started there, and I understand it is not always easy to ask 'stupid' questions, but I think it is important to produce a culture and atmosphere where this is possible. A FAQ will help a lot, particularly if somebody takes ownership and makes sure to capture questions and get answers from the experts. A set of introductory programming manuals on Python, PyGame, SciPy, and Etoys will help more. We can discuss this with FLOSS Manuals. Let Adam Hyde and me know which ones you would like to have, and which ones others ask you for. Just a nit pick, SciPy is much replaced by Numpy though SciPy still overlaps enough the documentation seems pretty useful. ~Was considering a cellular automata type brick coding activity using numpy, sort of turtleart for arrays, and no turtle. Conway's game of life being the basic starting sampler. --Gary I am working on creating a newsletter for those interested in joining Sugar work. We have two volunteers so far from Olin Coll. of Eng., motivated by the fact that they can't find the news on OLPC (Who can?) and that they have had difficulties finding out how to participate. Articles on elementary Sugar programming and on opportunities for activities will be welcome, as will progress reports whenever you have a significant accomplishment or need help. I sent over my links to laptop news sources, and some references on a multitude of games that people can program if they like. We will collect many other resources. We will also include suggestions for curriculum, textbooks, and content. The idea is that anybody can participate, because everybody knows something that the children need. In particular we need subject-matter experts (SMEs) in every school subject and every kind of business, research, government, or whatever. Also artists, writers, reviewers, testers, localizers, translators, and so on and on. So I argue, to please use sugar-devel for those discussions. +1 unless the Sugar Newbies tell us otherwise. We also have other lists appropriate for content and the rest. Simon ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/ دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] list of complaints from sugarcamp community building talk
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Gary C Martin wrote: Just a nit pick, SciPy is much replaced by Numpy though SciPy still overlaps enough the documentation seems pretty useful. This is a typo. You mean that Numeric and Numarray are replaced by NumPy. SciPy is NumPy's sister project. NumPy provides fast array primitives for Python, and SciPy uses NumPy to implement a variety of high-level sci/math functions such as clustering, quadrature, maximum entropy methods, and signal processing. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkrTEIACgkQUJT6e6HFtqSLewCeKW4C92DSwpVDPjrTLfO6cWVM CWQAn1adMk0FP59jQf8Nq6U7bTl9WNvj =Js/Z -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] list of complaints from sugarcamp community building talk
On 25 Nov 2008, at 00:52, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Gary C Martin wrote: Just a nit pick, SciPy is much replaced by Numpy though SciPy still overlaps enough the documentation seems pretty useful. This is a typo. You mean that Numeric and Numarray are replaced by NumPy. SciPy is NumPy's sister project. NumPy provides fast array primitives for Python, and SciPy uses NumPy to implement a variety of high-level sci/math functions such as clustering, quadrature, maximum entropy methods, and signal processing. Thanks Ben, yes my apologies for the confusion. I've just re-read the opening chapter to Guide to NumPy as a penance (it's all about the dev history, forks, and community splits). --Gary - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkrTEIACgkQUJT6e6HFtqSLewCeKW4C92DSwpVDPjrTLfO6cWVM CWQAn1adMk0FP59jQf8Nq6U7bTl9WNvj =Js/Z -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] list of complaints from sugarcamp community building talk
Hi, this is awesome feedback. I'm going to speak from the SugarLabs perspective. On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Elsa Culler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Last night at sugarcamp, we(people from the Olin college OLPC chapter) were asked to come up with a list of roadblocks we have run into in trying to volunteer effectively. Mel Chua asked me to forward it to these lists, so here is the list in text format: we have to come up with jobs ourselves, and we're not too good at it we don't know what we can do that is useful when we are told what to do, we have to check with other people to make sure it's ok Point taken, we need to come up with a good list of interesting things that people can start with. Somewhat related, I keep up a TODO list of things in http://sugarlabs.org/go/User:Tomeu that interested people can take from my hands. Wonder how we could make this more discoverable? we don't have easy access to cool things that are going on in OLPC that would get people excited -for example - it would make people excited just to hear accounts of deployments Could you check out the weekly newsletter published in Walter's blog (http://walterbender.org/) and see how much it suits your needs? SugarLabs cannot say much about OLPC deployments, but we hope to have pilots of our own soon, and hopefully deployments will follow. most meetings happen when we are in class and we don't know what happened or give input - especially with commute (it takes us 1;30 hrs to get here) Most SugarLabs meetings happen on IRC, so you wouldn't have the commute issue. Please check out the meeting announcements in the sugar-devel and iaep mailing lists and comment if the times don't work out for you, we probably can change them. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/ it's difficult to find out what OLPC does beyond the broad mission-statement sort of thing Probably, SL could do better as well, can you comment about what's missing in Walter's newsletter? it took me 6 months to figure out how to use irc, i still don't know where trac is Definitely a problem. We are thinking about having a landing page similar to the one in http://www.eclipse.org/ that hopefully will give a way for everybody to find how to better interact with us depending on their role. The idea is that a prospecting developer would just click on one of those icons and would find a simple explanation of the first concepts that need to be grabbed in order to move forward. How does that sound? olpc-dev list emails are kind of over my head Yeah, we should understand better this issue. Is a coder-newbies mailing list a valid suggestion? where are things? (on wiki, etc) David Farning is working on this, following a never ending list of complaints from Greg DeKoenigsberg. note - if you teach us how stuff works we can tell more people/translate the information Totally, we count on you to help us, we are totally aware that by ourselves cannot do it. I would like to develop activities, but up until now I didn't even know it was up for grabs Ooops ;) Thanks for listening! Thanks to you, this definitely helps. Regards, Tomeu ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] list of complaints from sugarcamp community building talk
On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Caroline Meeks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This seems like a cool teachable moment if you are interested in learning more about learning theory and vocabulary. The Sugar community is a Community of Practice CoP - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_of_practice The feedback of the Olin people is on inadequacy of the legitimate peripheral participation that is not having a clear path for people to participate at the margins of the group then move in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimate_peripheral_participation How to use IRC is Tacit Knowledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacit_knowledge) for an open source developer. So one of the ways we help people is turn it into Explicit Knowledge by explaining what it is and how to use. All very good points, thanks! Tomeu On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 9:05 AM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, this is awesome feedback. I'm going to speak from the SugarLabs perspective. On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Elsa Culler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Last night at sugarcamp, we(people from the Olin college OLPC chapter) were asked to come up with a list of roadblocks we have run into in trying to volunteer effectively. Mel Chua asked me to forward it to these lists, so here is the list in text format: we have to come up with jobs ourselves, and we're not too good at it we don't know what we can do that is useful when we are told what to do, we have to check with other people to make sure it's ok Point taken, we need to come up with a good list of interesting things that people can start with. Somewhat related, I keep up a TODO list of things in http://sugarlabs.org/go/User:Tomeu that interested people can take from my hands. Wonder how we could make this more discoverable? we don't have easy access to cool things that are going on in OLPC that would get people excited -for example - it would make people excited just to hear accounts of deployments Could you check out the weekly newsletter published in Walter's blog (http://walterbender.org/) and see how much it suits your needs? SugarLabs cannot say much about OLPC deployments, but we hope to have pilots of our own soon, and hopefully deployments will follow. most meetings happen when we are in class and we don't know what happened or give input - especially with commute (it takes us 1;30 hrs to get here) Most SugarLabs meetings happen on IRC, so you wouldn't have the commute issue. Please check out the meeting announcements in the sugar-devel and iaep mailing lists and comment if the times don't work out for you, we probably can change them. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/ it's difficult to find out what OLPC does beyond the broad mission-statement sort of thing Probably, SL could do better as well, can you comment about what's missing in Walter's newsletter? it took me 6 months to figure out how to use irc, i still don't know where trac is Definitely a problem. We are thinking about having a landing page similar to the one in http://www.eclipse.org/ that hopefully will give a way for everybody to find how to better interact with us depending on their role. The idea is that a prospecting developer would just click on one of those icons and would find a simple explanation of the first concepts that need to be grabbed in order to move forward. How does that sound? olpc-dev list emails are kind of over my head Yeah, we should understand better this issue. Is a coder-newbies mailing list a valid suggestion? where are things? (on wiki, etc) David Farning is working on this, following a never ending list of complaints from Greg DeKoenigsberg. note - if you teach us how stuff works we can tell more people/translate the information Totally, we count on you to help us, we are totally aware that by ourselves cannot do it. I would like to develop activities, but up until now I didn't even know it was up for grabs Ooops ;) Thanks for listening! Thanks to you, this definitely helps. Regards, Tomeu ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove [EMAIL PROTECTED] 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] list of complaints from sugarcamp community building talk
Caroline, Do have suggestions for other readings about how Communities of Practice form and operate, particularly in the field of education. I feel like I have my head wrapped around documentation, development, and deployment COP's. I am still totally confused how to engage educators. There seem to be significant cultural differences between people who sit in front of a computer all day and those who spend their days standing between a blackboard and and a classroom full of kids. david On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Caroline Meeks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This seems like a cool teachable moment if you are interested in learning more about learning theory and vocabulary. The Sugar community is a Community of Practice CoP - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_of_practice The feedback of the Olin people is on inadequacy of the legitimate peripheral participation that is not having a clear path for people to participate at the margins of the group then move in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimate_peripheral_participation How to use IRC is Tacit Knowledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacit_knowledge) for an open source developer. So one of the ways we help people is turn it into Explicit Knowledge by explaining what it is and how to use. On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 9:05 AM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, this is awesome feedback. I'm going to speak from the SugarLabs perspective. On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Elsa Culler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Last night at sugarcamp, we(people from the Olin college OLPC chapter) were asked to come up with a list of roadblocks we have run into in trying to volunteer effectively. Mel Chua asked me to forward it to these lists, so here is the list in text format: we have to come up with jobs ourselves, and we're not too good at it we don't know what we can do that is useful when we are told what to do, we have to check with other people to make sure it's ok Point taken, we need to come up with a good list of interesting things that people can start with. Somewhat related, I keep up a TODO list of things in http://sugarlabs.org/go/User:Tomeu that interested people can take from my hands. Wonder how we could make this more discoverable? we don't have easy access to cool things that are going on in OLPC that would get people excited -for example - it would make people excited just to hear accounts of deployments Could you check out the weekly newsletter published in Walter's blog (http://walterbender.org/) and see how much it suits your needs? SugarLabs cannot say much about OLPC deployments, but we hope to have pilots of our own soon, and hopefully deployments will follow. most meetings happen when we are in class and we don't know what happened or give input - especially with commute (it takes us 1;30 hrs to get here) Most SugarLabs meetings happen on IRC, so you wouldn't have the commute issue. Please check out the meeting announcements in the sugar-devel and iaep mailing lists and comment if the times don't work out for you, we probably can change them. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/ it's difficult to find out what OLPC does beyond the broad mission-statement sort of thing Probably, SL could do better as well, can you comment about what's missing in Walter's newsletter? it took me 6 months to figure out how to use irc, i still don't know where trac is Definitely a problem. We are thinking about having a landing page similar to the one in http://www.eclipse.org/ that hopefully will give a way for everybody to find how to better interact with us depending on their role. The idea is that a prospecting developer would just click on one of those icons and would find a simple explanation of the first concepts that need to be grabbed in order to move forward. How does that sound? olpc-dev list emails are kind of over my head Yeah, we should understand better this issue. Is a coder-newbies mailing list a valid suggestion? where are things? (on wiki, etc) David Farning is working on this, following a never ending list of complaints from Greg DeKoenigsberg. note - if you teach us how stuff works we can tell more people/translate the information Totally, we count on you to help us, we are totally aware that by ourselves cannot do it. I would like to develop activities, but up until now I didn't even know it was up for grabs Ooops ;) Thanks for listening! Thanks to you, this definitely helps. Regards, Tomeu ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove [EMAIL PROTECTED] 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] list of complaints from sugarcamp community building talk
Hello All. I think of most importance facilitate the access to teachers and others in relation to IRC. mailists etc..they are not tech savvy so we have to lower the barrier access to this tools of communications. Embedding mibbit in the wiki is a way to do so, i've done it in a Wiki and the response has been great!. Also a teacher in Uruguay proposes a Live Video Chat, to keep constant communication. Rafael Ortiz On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 12:39 PM, David Farning [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Caroline, Do have suggestions for other readings about how Communities of Practice form and operate, particularly in the field of education. I feel like I have my head wrapped around documentation, development, and deployment COP's. I am still totally confused how to engage educators. There seem to be significant cultural differences between people who sit in front of a computer all day and those who spend their days standing between a blackboard and and a classroom full of kids. david On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Caroline Meeks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This seems like a cool teachable moment if you are interested in learning more about learning theory and vocabulary. The Sugar community is a Community of Practice CoP - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_of_practice The feedback of the Olin people is on inadequacy of the legitimate peripheral participation that is not having a clear path for people to participate at the margins of the group then move in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimate_peripheral_participation How to use IRC is Tacit Knowledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacit_knowledge) for an open source developer. So one of the ways we help people is turn it into Explicit Knowledge by explaining what it is and how to use. On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 9:05 AM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, this is awesome feedback. I'm going to speak from the SugarLabs perspective. On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Elsa Culler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Last night at sugarcamp, we(people from the Olin college OLPC chapter) were asked to come up with a list of roadblocks we have run into in trying to volunteer effectively. Mel Chua asked me to forward it to these lists, so here is the list in text format: we have to come up with jobs ourselves, and we're not too good at it we don't know what we can do that is useful when we are told what to do, we have to check with other people to make sure it's ok Point taken, we need to come up with a good list of interesting things that people can start with. Somewhat related, I keep up a TODO list of things in http://sugarlabs.org/go/User:Tomeu that interested people can take from my hands. Wonder how we could make this more discoverable? we don't have easy access to cool things that are going on in OLPC that would get people excited -for example - it would make people excited just to hear accounts of deployments Could you check out the weekly newsletter published in Walter's blog (http://walterbender.org/) and see how much it suits your needs? SugarLabs cannot say much about OLPC deployments, but we hope to have pilots of our own soon, and hopefully deployments will follow. most meetings happen when we are in class and we don't know what happened or give input - especially with commute (it takes us 1;30 hrs to get here) Most SugarLabs meetings happen on IRC, so you wouldn't have the commute issue. Please check out the meeting announcements in the sugar-devel and iaep mailing lists and comment if the times don't work out for you, we probably can change them. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/ it's difficult to find out what OLPC does beyond the broad mission-statement sort of thing Probably, SL could do better as well, can you comment about what's missing in Walter's newsletter? it took me 6 months to figure out how to use irc, i still don't know where trac is Definitely a problem. We are thinking about having a landing page similar to the one in http://www.eclipse.org/ that hopefully will give a way for everybody to find how to better interact with us depending on their role. The idea is that a prospecting developer would just click on one of those icons and would find a simple explanation of the first concepts that need to be grabbed in order to move forward. How does that sound? olpc-dev list emails are kind of over my head Yeah, we should understand better this issue. Is a coder-newbies mailing list a valid suggestion? where are things? (on wiki, etc) David Farning is working on this, following a never ending list of complaints from Greg DeKoenigsberg. note - if you teach us how stuff works we can tell more people/translate the information Totally, we count on you to help us, we are totally aware
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] list of complaints from sugarcamp community building talk
On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 12:39 PM, David Farning [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Caroline, Do have suggestions for other readings about how Communities of Practice form and operate, particularly in the field of education. I feel like I have my head wrapped around documentation, development, and deployment COP's. I am still totally confused how to engage educators. There seem to be significant cultural differences between people who sit in front of a computer all day and those who spend their days standing between a blackboard and and a classroom full of kids. Excellent observation! There is lots of literature on CoP for teachers and the bottom line is its pretty hard to do. Personally think some of the important difference are. - when we computer people interact with our online CoP we can do so as part of our normal workflow. We are sitting looking at our inbox anyway. Teachers normal workflow is standing with the blackboard, they have to concously devote some of thier nonteaching time to participation. - Learning Styles, if you choose to be a teacher you probably really enjoy face-to-face interaction with people. Here are some readings on CoP from my class last year. http://www.ewenger.com/theory/index.htm Schlager, M., Fusco, J. Schank, P (2002). Evolution of an on-line education community of practice.http://tappedin.org/tappedin/web/papers/2002/TIEvolution.pdfIn K. A. Renninger and W. Shumar (Eds.), *Building virtual communities: Learning and change in cyberspace*. NY: Cambridge University Press, 129-158. you can see all the papers on Tapped In - probably the most studied on line CoP for teachers - http://tappedin.org/tappedin/web/papers/index.jsp This year the professor Dede talked about a program in Alabama that I think has some relevance for our work. It was a blended online-inperson program that created teacher teams at each school and then connected a few teams together with virutal tools. I think this sort of blended program has a lot of promise for Sugar and OLPC. I've asked for some pointers to more details on that program. I see a strong link between teacher training a creating teacher CoP. I'm in the process of learning and thinking about how Prof. Stone's work with WIDE World as well as what OLPC is currently doing in terms of teacher training. At WIDE they seem to very conciously create and build their community of pracitce although interestingly, its not the top billing for the program, they emphasis the teacher training. Look at the last paragraph on this page: http://wideworld.pz.harvard.edu/overview/whatwedo/approach.cfm *Technology for Developing Communities of Learners* WIDE World programs demonstrate how to use new technologies to strengthen teaching and to build reflective, collaborative learning communities. Participants in our online courses exchange ideas with experienced coaches and peers and have the opportunity to join an online international community of innovative educators. And I also see a very concious path for teachers to become increasingly engaged with the program experts and leaders here. http://wideworld.pz.harvard.edu/overview/ ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] [IAEP] list of complaints from sugarcamp community building talk
On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 12:39 PM, David Farning [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Caroline, Do have suggestions for other readings about how Communities of Practice form and operate, particularly in the field of education. I feel like I have my head wrapped around documentation, development, and deployment COP's. I am still totally confused how to engage educators. There seem to be significant cultural differences between people who sit in front of a computer all day and those who spend their days standing between a blackboard and and a classroom full of kids. david Here is a great resource from NZ recommended by Prof. Dede: http://www.educationcounts.govt.nz/publications/curriculum/5795 -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove [EMAIL PROTECTED] 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
