RE: Sundials with Greek alphabetical numerals

: Re: Sundials with Greek alphabetical numerals Hi That’s really interesting Dan. I do not know of any dial in Britain/Ireland having Greek numerals for time indication. However, I am aware of Greek being used on something like 20+ British dials but all but one of those only use Greek for

RE: Sundials with Greek alphabetical numerals

See Attic Numerals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attic_numerals 1835! Phil Walker Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 11:16:18 + From: john.davi...@btopenworld.com To: patrick_pow...@compuserve.com; cerculdest...@gmail.com; sundial@uni-koeln.de Subject: Re: Sundials with Greek alphabetical numerals

Re: Sundials with Greek alphabetical numerals

//sundialsoc.org.uk/publications/the-bss-bulletin/ From: Patrick Powers To: Dan-George Uza ; Sundial mail list NEW Sent: Friday, 15 April 2016, 11:01 Subject: Re: Sundials with Greek alphabetical numerals Hi That’s really interesting Dan.  I do not know of any dial in Britain/Ireland having

Re: Sundials with Greek alphabetical numerals

Hi That’s really interesting Dan. I do not know of any dial in Britain/Ireland having Greek numerals for time indication. However, I am aware of Greek being used on something like 20+ British dials but all but one of those only use Greek for their mottoes. The one exception still does not

Sundials with Greek alphabetical numerals

Hello! This is the only sundial with Greek alphabetical numbering I've come across in Romania and I was wondering: are they common in the rest of Europe? Dan Uza --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial

Re: Arabic Numerals

depictions, the Persian form of >> the 4 is a more logical extension from 2, and 3. Also there are variations >> of the 5. >> >> http://www.illustratingshadows.com/dialLettering.JPG >> >> Simon >> >> >> Simon Wheaton-Smith >> www.illustratingshadows.com &g

Re: Arabic Numerals ps

for some rather lovely dial plate designs. Simon Wheaton-Smith www.illustratingshadows.com Phoenix, Arizona, W112.1 N33.5 > > From: Robert Terwilliger >To: sundial@uni-koeln.de >Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 10:14 AM >Subject: Arabic Numeral

Arabic Numerals

A clockmaker friend came up with a graphic of Arabic numerals and their pronunciation. I thought it might be useful to those on this list. http://www.twigsdigs.com/annex/Arabic-numbers0-9.jpg Bob Robert Terwilliger Certified Master Clockmaker 2963 Bird Avenue Coconut Grove FL 33133

Pre-cut letters and numerals in durable materials.

Fellow Shadow Watchers, Since a recent visit to the UK Sign-World exhibition I receive promotional material which might be of use to others. A recent example is: http://www.trade-letters.com/ which needs no further explanation. Prices are reasonable a

RE: Slanted Roman Numerals

Sunny Day! Thank you very much for sharing your techniques with us. I do not have Adobe Illustrator but I have a program called CorelDRAW, which I have not used very much. I know that it does not have all the capabilities of AI but with your detailed description Tony I will see if I can perform

Re: Slanted Roman Numerals

Carl Sabanski wrote: >I have noticed on a number of different sundials that the Roman numerals >used for the hour numbers are sloped to match the angle of the hour line. >Is a special font, technique or combination of the two used to do this? I, >and I am sure others, would be very i

Re: Slanted Roman Numerals

Hi Carl, On traditional English horizontal dials, the Roman numerals are not only slanted along the hour lines but also have their tops and bottoms as circular arcs, centred on the middle of the dialplate rather than the origins of the hour lines. Thus, although programs such as

Slanted Roman Numerals

Sunny Day! I have noticed on a number of different sundials that the Roman numerals used for the hour numbers are sloped to match the angle of the hour line. Is a special font, technique or combination of the two used to do this? I, and I am sure others, would be very interested in learning how

Re: Gothic numerals

Just a note to say that No, the church clock at St Dunstan's, Cranbrook in Kent just uses normal Roman numerals (with ). It main interest lies in its supporters, having above an elaborate winged and bearded figure with a scythe (Father Time, but is he usually winged?). This figure, and

Gothic Numerals

In reply to Claude Hartman's note about Gothic Numerals on Sundials, I only recall having seen these on dials in Germany.  However, as far as Portable Dials are concerned I know of a few examples.  One is a brass dial mounted on the lid of a snuff box.  Unfortunately it is unsigned and

Gothic numerals

Message text written by Claude Hartman >He asked me if there were such use of Gothic numerals in old sundials. Like older clocks, I would guess so. < Not many at all in the UK, Claude. Two or three sundials recorded by the BSS use Gothic script on their dialplates for mottoes and inscri

Gothic numerals

How about this: There was some interest in the use of instead of IV on sundials some time ago. This seems to be of interest to clock enthusiasts as well. Here is another such question about numerals: A friend showed me that in his home town in northern France they have a clock whose

Re: Roman Numerals - as a test message

One wonders what the artist who painted this clock face had in mind! Mac Oglesby Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:Roman4.jpg (JPEG/BOBO) (000C0846)

Re: Roman Numerals - as a test message

Further to Andrew James message on Roman Striking on Clocks, the saving on the number of striking blows is much greater than perhaps some non-clockies might appreciate, as Andrew just drew attention to the two blows saved at 4 o'clock. At 12 only 4 strokes are needed instead of 12, 3 at 11, 2 at 1

RE: Roman Numerals - as a test message

g ) I would suspect that the prevalance of could be even greater. It would be nice to know.. < For what it's worth I agree with the web site Richard cited that iiij was the commonly written form and therefore it was natural to put it on a clock dial. As to why it continued after Roman

Re: Roman Numerals - as a test message

Message text written by Frank King > my guess is that the ratio would not be much different for clock faces.< Hmmm, I have no data on this but because of the bias mentioned before (regarding the apparent better balance of a clock face when using ) I would suspect that the prevalance of II

Re: Roman Numerals - as a test message

Message text written by Patrick Powers > ...out of 446 dials which show 4am or 4pm and where I have now > entered this sort of detail, 273 use and 173 use IV. This is wonderfully quantitative information and my guess is that the ratio would not be much different for clock faces. > ... usa

Re: Roman Numerals - as a test message

Patrick wrote: >The Romans used both at different times during their Empire with >rather more frequently overall. Many Thanks Patrick, it's good to have your authoritative access to that level of information on this. >I have been recording the usage of Roman numerals for

Roman Numerals - as a test message

Message text written by tony moss >I recall being 'smacked' by a BSS lady member for using a 'clock makers' IV' in my early attempt at Roman numerals some years ago.< The Romans used both at different times during their Empire with rather more frequently

Re: Roman Numerals - as a test message

According to , the Romans themselves rarely used the subtraction principle and so would have primarily used rather than IV. -- Richard On Sat, 27 Mar 2004, tony moss wrote: >Richard Langley wrote: > >>Isn't the clockmake

Re: Roman Numerals - as a test message

Richard Langley wrote: >Isn't the clockmaker's IV? Apparently introduced since it "balances" >VIII although that's not a theory that is without problems since other >numbers on the clock face are not balanced. While not necessarily >authoratative, see >

Re: Roman Numerals - as a test message

BSS lady member for using a 'clock makers' IV' in my early >attempt at Roman numerals some years ago. > >Tony Moss >- > === Richard B. LangleyE-mail: [EMAIL PROTECT

Roman Numerals - as a test message

Fellow Shadow Watchers, I've just noticed that the BBC TV News credit titles include the date as MMIV. Should this be MM? I recall being 'smacked' by a BSS lady member for using a 'clock makers' IV' in my early

Re: Last Thought on Roman numerals?

Greetings fellow dialists, Mike Cowham wrote: >> [...] >> If we are going to >> modernise them, then we should really use Arabic numerals. >> Alternatively, how about a base 2 system??? 1,10,11,100... 1010, >> 1011 & 1100. These would balance fai

Re: Last Thought on Roman numerals?

Mike Cowham wrote: > [...] > If we are going to > modernise them, then we should really use Arabic numerals. > > Alternatively, how about a base 2 system??? 1,10,11,100... 1010, > 1011 & 1100. These would balance fairly well if we include the leading > zeros

Last Thought on Roman numerals?

o modernise them, then we should really use Arabic numerals. Alternatively, how about a base 2 system??? 1,10,11,100... 1010, 1011 & 1100. These would balance fairly well if we include the leading zeros and make the 0s wide like letter O - (but not in all fonts). I hate to th

RE: ??? Roman numerals

rver didn't quite understand them either (e.g. going IX X IX, or V IV IIV). Two examples are at Warmwell (which uses V, or in fact V for 9) and Hilton (both Dorset). In Winchester there is also a modern dial (1960s?) with the Roman numerals wrong. At Woodstock, Oxfordshire, the church

Fw: Numerals on dials

looks different from the norm.  Sadly withover 4000 dials of all types I cannot easily put in comments for all dials!Internally viewable numerals (and other 'different' arrangements!) are afeature that is more commonly found with vertical dials where I would guessthe differ

Re: ??? Roman numerals

Kevin Conod wrote: > > These are all rather elaborate explanations . . . couldn't just be that > "" was used instead of "IV" simply because it is so easy to confuse "IV" > with "VI"? In this case, what about IX and XI? > After all, in the heyday of the sundial as a timepiece, most of > the

Re: Roman numerals

Mike Cowham wrote: > > My father, an old clock man, used to tell me that the was used in > place of IV because if not, it did not balance with VIII on the opposite > side of the dial. Try it, and I think that you will agree that it looks > strange and unbalanced. Just look how symmetrical

Roman numerals

My father, an old clock man, used to tell me that the was used in place of IV because if not, it did not balance with VIII on the opposite side of the dial. Try it, and I think that you will agree that it looks strange and unbalanced. Just look how symmetrical a clock face is. There may be

Roman Numerals message A.

w Watchers At the beginning of the thread on orientation of Roman Numerals Bob Terwilliger asked me to send examples to illustrate my point. Attached are two small gifs (only 17k eack) Of course the GIF format has jaggified my posh artwork. Inwards.gif and outwards.gif show identi

Roman Numerals Message B

Fellow Shadow watchers This is the second part of a two part message, each bearing a small GIF attachment. As I've had trouble with mails not reaching the SML recently, I hope they both arrive or it will add to any confusion. Outwards.GIF attached. Best Wishes Tony M

Re: ??? Roman numerals

If exists to avoid confusion with VI, what about the IX and XI situation? Mac Oglesby These are all rather elaborate explanations . . . couldn't just be that "" was used instead of "IV" simply because it is so easy to confuse "IV" with "VI"? After all, in the heyday of the sundial

Re: ??? Roman numerals

[Kevin C.] > These are all rather elaborate explanations . . . couldn't just be that > "" was used instead of "IV" simply because it is so easy to confuse "IV" > with "VI"? [snip] In light of the List's recent discussions of number orientation on a dial (and, I suspect, some of the same consi

Re: ??? Roman numerals

These are all rather elaborate explanations . . . couldn't just be that "" was used instead of "IV" simply because it is so easy to confuse "IV" with "VI"? After all, in the heyday of the sundial as a timepiece, most of the world was illiterate. Something to think about... --Kevin Conod [

Re: ??? Roman numerals

Various explanations for the use of are given in my FAQ http://www.ubr.com/clocks/faq/.html Gordon Gordon Uber [EMAIL PROTECTED] San Diego, California USA Webmaster: Clocks and Time: http://www.ubr.com/clocks

Arabic numerals

See http://www.scit.wlv.ac.uk/~cm1993/maths/mm2217/countsys.htm for discussion of Hindu-Arabic numbers and their dissemination in the West. Gordon At 10:44 AM 5/7/01 -0300, Steve Lelievre wrote: This is off-topic, but why are they called Arabic numerals? Presumably because the system of

Re: ??? Roman numerals

Dear all, Tony Moss wrote: > > Fellow Shadow Watchers, > >[...] XII, XI, X, IX and I, II. III, > and read locate satifactorily in either direction but V, VI and VII > have 'V' elements which radiate outwards and benefit from the extra space > at the outer serif cir

Re: Numerals on dials

mental acrobatics so that you are not reading the numerals from a skewed angle. My favorite numeral orientation for most horizontal and vertical dials is neither inward nor outward, but perpendicular to the east/west line (horizontals), and perpendicular to the horizon (verticals). If you are

Re: Numerals on dials

Hi Bob and everyone > >Another consideration for the placement of numerals is the direction >from which the dial would normally be read. > SNIP > >Tony, why don't you make up a design with the numerals as you propose >and let us have a look? I brought many happy

Re: Numerals on dials

Dear Friends, Another consideration for the placement of numerals is the direction from which the dial would normally be read. I once made a dial that would be placed on a porch rail high above the ground where it could not be read, or even accessed, from the south, and I inverted the numerals

Numerals on dials

Message text written by Tony Moss >The orientation of Roman numerals on vertical dials is generally decided by the fact that the dial is read from below. For horizontal dials however it seemed natural to me that Roman numerals *looked* best when read from the inside outwards i.e. w

RE: engraving (roman) numerals

Andrew James contributed: SNIP > Many years ago apprentice engravers >didn't even touch metal for the first couple of years, they just had to >learn the drawing aspects with a pencil! However it's worth having a go and >I found I could do something acceptable on a small scale after not too lon

RE: engraving (roman) numerals

Jim McCulloch wrote: > Let me recommend a low-tech skill that is not as hard as you > might believe > to acquire an acceptable ability at, which is carving > directly on brass with > (non-power) hand engraving tools, which, I believe, can still > be bought from > a few art supply or jewelry ma

Re: engraving (roman) numerals

Jim McCulloch wrote: >But to return to the discussion of carving roman numerals, I found this to >be much harder than decorative motifs or the lines of the dial itself--in >fact it was the hardest engraving skill to acquire. The reason is the very >simplicity of Roman numerals. T

Re: engraving (roman) numerals

on 2/2/01 8:07 PM, John Carmichael at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hello dial makers: > > I just read Tony and Bill's comments on engraving numerals into metal. Very > satisfactory results can be had by hand carving roman numerals using a > Dremmel-type tool fitted with a

engraving (roman) numerals

Hello dial makers: I just read Tony and Bill's comments on engraving numerals into metal. Very satisfactory results can be had by hand carving roman numerals using a Dremmel-type tool fitted with a cuttoff disk. I can see why roman numerals were so popular with the ancients because, since

RE: numerals & silicon

Hello again; The only reason Tony's sundial discolored is because he covered it with plastic while the silicon was drying. If silicon is used as I mentioned in my last message, with good air circulation, then there is no discoloring of the visible brass since all the silicon is underneath the b

RE: numerals

"Is it ammonia that silicone gives off when it is curing?" There are many types of silicones and each has its own curing by-products: Many one part types give off acetic acid (Highly corrosive to sensitive metals like copper). Some types give off both alcohol and ammonia! which it sounds like

Re: numerals

Fellow Shadow Watchers Further to John Bercovitz' encyclopedic response on fixing metal numerals to stone just one word of warning, born of recent hard experince, for anyone using silicone adhesives to secure metal dials to stone. The alignment had gone ultra-smoothly with Mac Oglesby an

Re: numerals

> If brass numbers are epoxied to marble stone, will > their different coefficients of thermal expansion > break the bond? Sorry to be coming in so late on this. Work pressures - got to go there five days a week and work eight hours (or more) too. Ridiculous! This is a transient thermal p

RE:Re: numerals

d91c (4012); Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:27:23 EDT Subject: Re: numerals To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding:

Re: numerals

In a message dated 7/26/00 9:50:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > If brass numbers are epoxied to marble stone, will > their different coefficients of thermal expansion > break the bond? > Good question. I am dealing with a similar adhesive problem. My suggestion

numerals

Does anyone know where I can get metal numerals, about 3/4" tall, to attach to sundials instead of engraving the numbers? I prefer a brassy color. If brass numbers are epoxied to marble stone, will their different coefficients of thermal expansion break the bond? Thanks, Rod Heil

Raised numerals on sundials

As a follow up to others who have posted about the difficulty of using raised numerals on sundials, not only will the shadow "sneak" among the numerals, the numerals themselves will cast their own shadows leading to confusion. This is a good reason to avoid the the bronze casting proce

re: brass numerals

re: brass numerals for sundials I recently completed a sundial, and I too was looking for some numerals. In the end I made them of lead.I used old gas pipe which I hammered flat, and then I cut out the numbers from it. You don't have to use old gas piping, you can buy lead sheeting which i