Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial

[Patrick Powers]

Hi Geoff, 

Your most interesting ‘penumbral’ comment also raises another possibility that 
this could be a tad more interesting if we can believe a ‘throw away’, and not 
fully explained, comment about the monument which suggests a question that 
there might be still more to the design than we thought.

“The ellipses of the Anthem Veterans Memorial will form a circle of light once 
a year, but we can only experience the eleventh year once in a hundred years.”

Maybe this might also be connected with the odd proliferation of the number 11 
in the engineer’s explanation?

It occurs in this link:

http://www.isisinform.com/category/memorials/anthem-veterans-memorial/

Regards

Patrick




From: Frank King 
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 2:59 PM
To: Geoff Thurston 
Cc: John Goodman ; Sundial List 
Subject: Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial

Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Dear Geoff,

As so often, you cause me to reflect a
little and to refine my analysis...

> I wonder if the errors might be masked
> by the 32 arc minute solar penumbra.

In pondering this "instrument" I made
the naive assumption that we had an
ordinary aperture nodus.  It IS an
aperture nodus but it is hardly
ordinary...

Imagine a bug sitting at the centre
of the Great Seal and looking up the
array of elliptical openings.

We can think of the bug looking along
a tube which has a uniform elliptical
cross-section along its length.

Of course, to the bug, the far end of
the tube appears smaller than the near
end.  From photographs, I estimate
that the angular separation of the top
and bottom of the far end of the tube
is about 4 degrees or about 8 times
the diameter of the solar disc.  The
angular width is about 11 solar discs.

Although we are referring to the far
end of the tube, it is still many times
larger than the apparent diameter of
the solar disc.

The tube is therefore much too big to
be regarded as a shadow-sharpener and,
when investigating the patch of light
on the ground in the vicinity of the
Great Seal, we can deem the relevant
aperture to be the hole in the nearest
face of the shortest column.  This is
the hole closest to the Great Seal.

The only effect of the long tube is
to limit the range of declinations
and the range of hour-angles for
which the relevant aperture can give
rise to a full patch of light.

Clearly this is several days either
side of 11 November and several
minutes either side of 11:11.

When the patch of light is anywhere
near the Great Seal we can ignore
every aspect of the tube except the
nearest hole.

It is a great pity that the time lapse
video doesn't start early enough to
see just when the patch starts to
appear "full".  Otherwise I could
determine the dimensions with more
precision.

I did say at the outset that this is
a whole can of worms!

OK, that's a preliminary.  Now to
your pertinent observation...

I am sure you are right.  At 11:11
the extreme altitudes over the
10 year period are +/- 5.5 arc
minutes either side of the mean.

The fuzz at the top and bottom of
the patch of lighe illuminating the
Great Seal will always be around
+/- 16 arc minutes (half the solar
diameter) which is definitely a
greater range.

That said, the many photographs
of the spot of light at the
critical instant seem to show
the top edge of the Great Seal
not quite fully illuminated.

It is a very small effect but
it does make me wonder whether
the Great Seal has been put in
the correct place.

It would be most interesting to
see photographs on 12 November
when the declination and hence
altitude are slightly lower
and the patch would be further
out.

I think there would be a slight
over-correction and we would
conclude that the design date
of 11 November is better.

My concluding thought is that
there should be a removable
Great Seal printed on some
high-quality material and
treated with due respect.

Each year, Anthem's official
astronomer would oversee the
placing of the Great Seal
in the exact position for
the declination this time
round!

Very best wishes

Frank


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Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial

[Frank King]

Dear Roger,

Thank you for your comments on the John Dee
implementation of the Omar Khayyam calendar.

> At one longitude, 77° W, the equinox
> would always be on the same day. Is this
> God's Longitude? 

Yes.  At that longitude the vernal equinox
would invariably fall on 21 March.

Sadly, this is no longer always the case
because U.S. Daylight Saving (did you ever
hear my views on that?) now starts on the
second Sunday in March, which shifts the
local definition of Midnight by one hour,
so 1 year in 24 the vernal equinox will
be on 22 March.

It should be noted that the longitude will
depend on where you start the 33-year cycle.

John Dee deemed the calendar to start in
year 1 [Birth of Christ when zero hadn't
been invented] with leap years at multiples
of 4 until year 32 and the first cycle
concluded at year 33 [Christ's death].

We might note that Omar Khayyam was over
500 years ahead of John Dee and we should
also remember Na'amat Allah who was
on Pope Gregory's Commission and who
almost certainly lobbied for the 33-year
calendar.

We can represent John Dee's version as:

(C C C L)x8 C

   C = Common Year   L = Leap Year

We note that 4 x 8 + 1 = 33.

There are, of course, 33 points in the
cycle which you can deem to be the start
point and this will give you other
magic longitudes if you are happy not
to align your calendar with the life
of Christ.

> This is relevant today as Donald Trump
> is crowned at God's Longitude, 77° W,
> Washington DC 

Someone might remind him of this and, maybe,
he can undo the extension of the daylight
saving period introduced by George Bush.
In this way Trump could reclaim the "line
to God" that George Bush carelessly threw
away.

Very best wishes

Frank

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Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial

[Frank King]

Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Dear Geoff,

As so often, you cause me to reflect a
little and to refine my analysis...

> I wonder if the errors might be masked
> by the 32 arc minute solar penumbra.

In pondering this "instrument" I made
the naive assumption that we had an
ordinary aperture nodus.  It IS an
aperture nodus but it is hardly
ordinary...

Imagine a bug sitting at the centre
of the Great Seal and looking up the
array of elliptical openings.

We can think of the bug looking along
a tube which has a uniform elliptical
cross-section along its length.

Of course, to the bug, the far end of
the tube appears smaller than the near
end.  From photographs, I estimate
that the angular separation of the top
and bottom of the far end of the tube
is about 4 degrees or about 8 times
the diameter of the solar disc.  The
angular width is about 11 solar discs.

Although we are referring to the far
end of the tube, it is still many times
larger than the apparent diameter of
the solar disc.

The tube is therefore much too big to
be regarded as a shadow-sharpener and,
when investigating the patch of light
on the ground in the vicinity of the
Great Seal, we can deem the relevant
aperture to be the hole in the nearest
face of the shortest column.  This is
the hole closest to the Great Seal.

The only effect of the long tube is
to limit the range of declinations
and the range of hour-angles for
which the relevant aperture can give
rise to a full patch of light.

Clearly this is several days either
side of 11 November and several
minutes either side of 11:11.

When the patch of light is anywhere
near the Great Seal we can ignore
every aspect of the tube except the
nearest hole.

It is a great pity that the time lapse
video doesn't start early enough to
see just when the patch starts to
appear "full".  Otherwise I could
determine the dimensions with more
precision.

I did say at the outset that this is
a whole can of worms!

OK, that's a preliminary.  Now to
your pertinent observation...

I am sure you are right.  At 11:11
the extreme altitudes over the
10 year period are +/- 5.5 arc
minutes either side of the mean.

The fuzz at the top and bottom of
the patch of lighe illuminating the
Great Seal will always be around
+/- 16 arc minutes (half the solar
diameter) which is definitely a
greater range.

That said, the many photographs
of the spot of light at the
critical instant seem to show
the top edge of the Great Seal
not quite fully illuminated.

It is a very small effect but
it does make me wonder whether
the Great Seal has been put in
the correct place.

It would be most interesting to
see photographs on 12 November
when the declination and hence
altitude are slightly lower
and the patch would be further
out.

I think there would be a slight
over-correction and we would
conclude that the design date
of 11 November is better.

My concluding thought is that
there should be a removable
Great Seal printed on some
high-quality material and
treated with due respect.

Each year, Anthem's official
astronomer would oversee the
placing of the Great Seal
in the exact position for
the declination this time
round!

Very best wishes

Frank


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Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial

[Roger Bailey]

Hello Frank,

Thanks for reminding us of Omar Khayyam's calendar based on a 33 year cycle. 
John Dee's implementation of this calendar would reduce the equinox variation 
to 24 hours. At one longitude, 77° W, the equinox would always be on the same 
day. Is this God's Longitude? 

Based on your inspiration and advice 10 years ago, I reviewed Simon Cassidy's 
original historical and mathematical research and Duncan Steel's book "Marking 
Time: The Quest for the Perfect Calendar" He nominated Dee's calendar as the 
greatest invention in two millennia.

I summarized the "long story", an alt-history, in a presentation that Fred 
Sawyer gave at the NASS Conference in 2007. "God's Longitude and the Lost 
Colony of Virginia" It is available at my website here: 
http://www.walkingshadow.info/Publications/GodsLongitude.ppt  a 7 MB pppt file.

This is relevant today as Donald Trump is crowned at God's Longitude, 77° W, 
Washington DC 

Roger Bailey
Walking Shadow Designs 


--
From: "Frank King" <f...@cl.cam.ac.uk>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 8:33 AM
To: "John Goodman" <johngood...@mac.com>
Cc: "Sundial List" <sundial@uni-koeln.de>
Subject: Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial

> Dear John,
> 
> I wondered when someone would spot that there is a
> whole can of worms waiting to be opened here...
> 
>> Won't the factors that necessitate the addition
>> of a leap day prevent this alignment from
>> happening at exactly 11/11 11:11 every year?
> 
> Quite so.  No doubt you looked at the time-lapse
> video and spotted that the circle of light DIDN'T
> properly centre itself on the Great Seal of the
> United States.  This is surely only one step less
> sinful than being disrespectful to the US flag?
> 
> OK, take a deep breath and see what we are up
> against...
> 
> First we need to be clear what is meant by the
> time 11:11?  I assume this is clock time in
> Anthem, Arizona, and a little research suggests
> they are on Mountain Time there and that they
> don't observe Daylight Saving.  [Just think how
> the whole scheme could be wrecked if they did
> go over to Daylight Saving and the clocks didn't
> go back until after 11 November!]
> 
> To me, their interest is at 18:11:00 UTC but that
> is a detail.
> 
> The big difficulty is that, at this exact time of
> day, the solar declination varies with the leap
> year cycle and there is a steady drift.  As a
> result both the solar altitude and solar azimuth
> vary from one year to the next.  Let's see by
> how much...
> 
> I'll take it that the Geographical Coordinates
> of Anthem are:
> 
>   33° 51' 15" N 112° 7' 30"
> 
> Using GCstudio I determined the following data
> for 10 years starting in 2016, a leap year:
> 
>  2016  -17°41'09"  +36°25'01"  +161°40'45"
>  2017  -17°37'11"  +36°28'55"  +161°39'53"
>  2018  -17°33'13"  +36°32'52"  +161°39'05"
>  2019  -17°29'12"  +36°36'55"  +161°38'33"
>  2020  -17°41'38"  +36°24'36"  +161°41'11"
>  2021  -17°37'47"  +36°28'23"  +161°40'14"
>  2022  -17°33'48"  +36°32'21"  +161°39'31"
>  2023  -17°29'52"  +36°36'14"  +161°38'36"
>  2024  -17°42'18"  +36°23'55"  +161°41'16"
>  2025  -17°38'23"  +36°27'48"  +161°40'23"
> 
> The four columns show: year, declination, alt, az
> as they are at Anthem at 11:11:00 Mountain Time
> on 11 November in the 10 years shown.
> 
> Take declination first.  You see that starting in
> 2016 the declination gets about 4 minutes less
> negative on successive years until there is a
> sudden jump back which is A LITTLE TOO BIG.
> This sets the pattern.  We become less negative
> until 2024 when there is another jump.
> 
> The jumps back over-compensate because the tropical
> year is slightly less than 365.25 days.
> 
> You will see that the solar altitude increases by
> just under 4' a year before falling back just over
> 12' in a leap year.  You will see that even in this
> little table the range of altitudes is about 11'
> and this will be noticed by careful observers.
> 
> The azimuth varies too of course but by not so
> much and its main effect is to make you have to
> worry about just how to align the slabs.
> 
> OK, what should they have done?
> 
> Well one approach is to settle on the 2016 figures
> and note that over the next 36 years the data for
> 2016 will be somewhere near the middle.  After
> that the drift will become more noticeable but the
> designer will probably be dead and won't care.
> 
> Things gradually get worse and w

Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial

[John Goodman]

On Jan 20, 2017, at 7:40 AM, Frank King  wrote:

> If I had been consulted, I would have suggested that the Great Seal should be 
> a little smaller so that it will always be wholly illuminated at the crucial 
> instant!

That would have been a clever and elegant solution! 

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Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial

[Frank King]

Dear John,

I am not sure the Chief Engineer fully
grasped what is going on though he has
indeed appreciated that, at the required
moment, both the altitude and the azimuth
of the sun change from one year to the
the next.

In a crucial sentence he asserts:

  Each year, the center of the sun is slightly
  offset from other years by just a few
  horizontal or vertical arc-seconds relative
  to the timing of the required azimuth/altitude
  position of the sun.

Even over the 10 years I quoted, the horizontal
offset has a range of about 3 arc-minutes (NOT
arc-seconds) and the vertical offset has a range
of about 13 arc-minutes (a significant fraction
of the solar diameter).

He is right that the horizontal range affects
the time by well under a minute but the much
larger variation of the vertical range (or
solar altitude) means that even when the
azimuth error is zero the circle of light
can be too close to or too far from the
vertical slabs by a significant amount.

If I had been consulted, I would have
suggested that the Great Seal should be
a little smaller so that it will always
be wholly illuminated at the crucial
instant!

I don't like the way that part of the
Great Seal is left in the dark, but maybe
there is some subtle symbolism there that
only experts in the U.S. Constitution will
understand.

A thing that bugs me more is the time
that has been chosen...

Most of the documentation says 11:11
which I take to be 11:11:00 Mountain
Time, but the Chief Engineer sometimes
says 11:11 and sometimes 11:11:11.

That's simply being inconsistent but,
worse than that, both are historically
incorrect.

One of the videos stated that the time
commemorates the Armistice of 1918.

Without qualification, that doesn't
mean very much.  The Armistice was
actually agreed about 05:00 Paris
Time on 11 November 1918 and the
signing process lasted from 05:12
until 05:20.

The agreement was that the Armistice
should "take effect" from 11:00:00
Paris Time.

In those days, France had the good
sense to use GMT so the agreed time
was 11:00:00 in Britain too.  In
those days Germany used GMT+1 and
the agreement spelt out that the
Armistice should take effect at
12:00:00 German Time.

If the good people of Anthem really
wanted to commemorate the Armistice
they should mark it at 05:00:00
Mountain Time each 11 November.
This would be before sunrise but
that's a detail.

I am very happy for them to use
11:00:00 Mountain Time and to
use a sun marker but where on
Earth do they get the extra
11 minutes from?  Never mind
the extra 11 minutes 11 seconds?

I do wish the Chief Engineer had
consulted me :-)

Very best wishes

Frank


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Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial

[Geoff Thurston]

Thank you, Frank, for that comprehensive analysis of the problem. However,
I wonder if the errors might be masked by the 32 arc minute  solar penumbra.

Best wishes,

Geoff

On 19 January 2017 at 16:33, Frank King  wrote:

> Dear John,
>
> I wondered when someone would spot that there is a
> whole can of worms waiting to be opened here...
>
> > Won't the factors that necessitate the addition
> > of a leap day prevent this alignment from
> > happening at exactly 11/11 11:11 every year?
>
> Quite so.  No doubt you looked at the time-lapse
> video and spotted that the circle of light DIDN'T
> properly centre itself on the Great Seal of the
> United States.  This is surely only one step less
> sinful than being disrespectful to the US flag?
>
> OK, take a deep breath and see what we are up
> against...
>
> First we need to be clear what is meant by the
> time 11:11?  I assume this is clock time in
> Anthem, Arizona, and a little research suggests
> they are on Mountain Time there and that they
> don't observe Daylight Saving.  [Just think how
> the whole scheme could be wrecked if they did
> go over to Daylight Saving and the clocks didn't
> go back until after 11 November!]
>
> To me, their interest is at 18:11:00 UTC but that
> is a detail.
>
> The big difficulty is that, at this exact time of
> day, the solar declination varies with the leap
> year cycle and there is a steady drift.  As a
> result both the solar altitude and solar azimuth
> vary from one year to the next.  Let's see by
> how much...
>
> I'll take it that the Geographical Coordinates
> of Anthem are:
>
>33° 51' 15" N 112° 7' 30"
>
> Using GCstudio I determined the following data
> for 10 years starting in 2016, a leap year:
>
>   2016  -17°41'09"  +36°25'01"  +161°40'45"
>   2017  -17°37'11"  +36°28'55"  +161°39'53"
>   2018  -17°33'13"  +36°32'52"  +161°39'05"
>   2019  -17°29'12"  +36°36'55"  +161°38'33"
>   2020  -17°41'38"  +36°24'36"  +161°41'11"
>   2021  -17°37'47"  +36°28'23"  +161°40'14"
>   2022  -17°33'48"  +36°32'21"  +161°39'31"
>   2023  -17°29'52"  +36°36'14"  +161°38'36"
>   2024  -17°42'18"  +36°23'55"  +161°41'16"
>   2025  -17°38'23"  +36°27'48"  +161°40'23"
>
> The four columns show: year, declination, alt, az
> as they are at Anthem at 11:11:00 Mountain Time
> on 11 November in the 10 years shown.
>
> Take declination first.  You see that starting in
> 2016 the declination gets about 4 minutes less
> negative on successive years until there is a
> sudden jump back which is A LITTLE TOO BIG.
> This sets the pattern.  We become less negative
> until 2024 when there is another jump.
>
> The jumps back over-compensate because the tropical
> year is slightly less than 365.25 days.
>
> You will see that the solar altitude increases by
> just under 4' a year before falling back just over
> 12' in a leap year.  You will see that even in this
> little table the range of altitudes is about 11'
> and this will be noticed by careful observers.
>
> The azimuth varies too of course but by not so
> much and its main effect is to make you have to
> worry about just how to align the slabs.
>
> OK, what should they have done?
>
> Well one approach is to settle on the 2016 figures
> and note that over the next 36 years the data for
> 2016 will be somewhere near the middle.  After
> that the drift will become more noticeable but the
> designer will probably be dead and won't care.
>
> Things gradually get worse and worse until The
> Great Correction over the years 2096 to 2004
> when the omission of a leap year in 2100 will
> reverse some of the damage.
>
> Most people know that the Gregorian Calendar
> was an improvement over the Julian Calendar but
> almost all readers of this list will live their
> entire lives enduring pure Julian Drift.
>
> This is a massive imposition and we should all
> be lobbying for a much better 33-year Calendar
> originally designed by Omar Khayyam in 1079,
> long before John Dee and others rediscovered
> it.  This was over 500 years before Pope
> Gregory's tinkering in 1582.  Why didn't
> Pope Gregory do a proper job then?
>
> That's a long story but the result is that we
> are lumbered with an unhelpful calendar which
> is, I suppose, upward-compatible with its
> predecessor.
>
> I share the view that "upward-compatibility is
> the business of deliberately not putting right
> someone else's mistakes".
>
> Many apologies.  Another rant I fear!
>
> Very best wishes
>
> Frank
>
> Frank King
> Cambridge, U.K.
>
> ---
> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
>
>
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Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial

[John Goodman]

Thank you, Patrick. The link you sent shows that the designer clearly 
considered the time-variation problem. His comments sound like a fair enough 
conclusion to me:

"I would say that it is perfect if you recognize the plus or minus 12 time 
second difference for 11:11:11 a.m."

> On Jan 19, 2017, at 1:05 PM, sundial-requ...@uni-koeln.de wrote:
> 
> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 17:59:21 -
> From: "Patrick Powers" <patrick_pow...@compuserve.com 
> <mailto:patrick_pow...@compuserve.com>>
> To: "Sundial List" <sundial@uni-koeln.de <mailto:sundial@uni-koeln.de>>
> Subject: Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial
> 
> John,
> 
> There is also this that describes (a little) the thinking that was behind the 
> way they attempted to accommodate the small changes that still occur year to 
> year.
> 
> http://www.onlineatanthem.com/news/memorial-science 
> <http://www.onlineatanthem.com/news/memorial-science>
> 
> Patrick
> 
> 
> From: John Goodman 
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 5:01 PM
> To: Frank King ; Sundial List 
> Subject: Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial
> 
> Thank you, Frank. You?ve sharpened my vague suspicions with mathematical 
> clarity.
> 
>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 11:33 AM, Frank King <f...@cl.cam.ac.uk 
>> <mailto:f...@cl.cam.ac.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> OK, take a deep breath and see what we are up against...
> 

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Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial

[Patrick Powers]

John,

There is also this that describes (a little) the thinking that was behind the 
way they attempted to accommodate the small changes that still occur year to 
year.

http://www.onlineatanthem.com/news/memorial-science

Patrick


From: John Goodman 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 5:01 PM
To: Frank King ; Sundial List 
Subject: Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial

Thank you, Frank. You’ve sharpened my vague suspicions with mathematical 
clarity.

> On Jan 19, 2017, at 11:33 AM, Frank King <f...@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> 
> OK, take a deep breath and see what we are up against...

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Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial

[John Goodman]

Thank you, Frank. You’ve sharpened my vague suspicions with mathematical 
clarity.

> On Jan 19, 2017, at 11:33 AM, Frank King  wrote:
> 
> OK, take a deep breath and see what we are up against...

---
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Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial

[Frank King]

Dear John,

I wondered when someone would spot that there is a
whole can of worms waiting to be opened here...

> Won't the factors that necessitate the addition
> of a leap day prevent this alignment from
> happening at exactly 11/11 11:11 every year?

Quite so.  No doubt you looked at the time-lapse
video and spotted that the circle of light DIDN'T
properly centre itself on the Great Seal of the
United States.  This is surely only one step less
sinful than being disrespectful to the US flag?

OK, take a deep breath and see what we are up
against...

First we need to be clear what is meant by the
time 11:11?  I assume this is clock time in
Anthem, Arizona, and a little research suggests
they are on Mountain Time there and that they
don't observe Daylight Saving.  [Just think how
the whole scheme could be wrecked if they did
go over to Daylight Saving and the clocks didn't
go back until after 11 November!]

To me, their interest is at 18:11:00 UTC but that
is a detail.

The big difficulty is that, at this exact time of
day, the solar declination varies with the leap
year cycle and there is a steady drift.  As a
result both the solar altitude and solar azimuth
vary from one year to the next.  Let's see by
how much...

I'll take it that the Geographical Coordinates
of Anthem are:

   33° 51' 15" N 112° 7' 30"

Using GCstudio I determined the following data
for 10 years starting in 2016, a leap year:

  2016  -17°41'09"  +36°25'01"  +161°40'45"
  2017  -17°37'11"  +36°28'55"  +161°39'53"
  2018  -17°33'13"  +36°32'52"  +161°39'05"
  2019  -17°29'12"  +36°36'55"  +161°38'33"
  2020  -17°41'38"  +36°24'36"  +161°41'11"
  2021  -17°37'47"  +36°28'23"  +161°40'14"
  2022  -17°33'48"  +36°32'21"  +161°39'31"
  2023  -17°29'52"  +36°36'14"  +161°38'36"
  2024  -17°42'18"  +36°23'55"  +161°41'16"
  2025  -17°38'23"  +36°27'48"  +161°40'23"

The four columns show: year, declination, alt, az
as they are at Anthem at 11:11:00 Mountain Time
on 11 November in the 10 years shown.

Take declination first.  You see that starting in
2016 the declination gets about 4 minutes less
negative on successive years until there is a
sudden jump back which is A LITTLE TOO BIG.
This sets the pattern.  We become less negative
until 2024 when there is another jump.

The jumps back over-compensate because the tropical
year is slightly less than 365.25 days.

You will see that the solar altitude increases by
just under 4' a year before falling back just over
12' in a leap year.  You will see that even in this
little table the range of altitudes is about 11'
and this will be noticed by careful observers.

The azimuth varies too of course but by not so
much and its main effect is to make you have to
worry about just how to align the slabs.

OK, what should they have done?

Well one approach is to settle on the 2016 figures
and note that over the next 36 years the data for
2016 will be somewhere near the middle.  After
that the drift will become more noticeable but the
designer will probably be dead and won't care.

Things gradually get worse and worse until The
Great Correction over the years 2096 to 2004
when the omission of a leap year in 2100 will
reverse some of the damage.

Most people know that the Gregorian Calendar
was an improvement over the Julian Calendar but
almost all readers of this list will live their
entire lives enduring pure Julian Drift.

This is a massive imposition and we should all
be lobbying for a much better 33-year Calendar
originally designed by Omar Khayyam in 1079,
long before John Dee and others rediscovered
it.  This was over 500 years before Pope
Gregory's tinkering in 1582.  Why didn't
Pope Gregory do a proper job then?

That's a long story but the result is that we
are lumbered with an unhelpful calendar which
is, I suppose, upward-compatible with its
predecessor.

I share the view that "upward-compatibility is
the business of deliberately not putting right
someone else's mistakes".

Many apologies.  Another rant I fear!

Very best wishes

Frank

Frank King
Cambridge, U.K.

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Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial

[John Goodman]

Won’t the factors that necessitate the addition of a leap day prevent this 
alignment from happening at exactly 11/11 11:11 every year? From year to year, 
that calendar date occurs at a slightly different fraction of the year’s days.

November 11 is the day 316 of 366 in 2016 and 315 of 365 in 2017. Will the sun 
have precisely the same alignment to this sculpture at a time that’s 316/366 of 
the year vs. 315/365? Close enough for the difference to be imperceptible?

The dates and times of the solstices and equinoxes vary from year to year. If 
these events shift relative to our timekeeping, how can the angle of sunlight 
required by this sculpture occurs at 11/11 11:11 every year? 

The beauty of math and the beauty of symbolism may not align here.

> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 22:41:15 +
> From: Art Krenzel <phoenix98...@msn.com <mailto:phoenix98...@msn.com>>
> To: "sundial@uni-koeln.de <mailto:sundial@uni-koeln.de>" 
> <sundial@uni-koeln.de <mailto:sundial@uni-koeln.de>>
> Subject: Unusual bi-annual sundial
> 
> I have been to Arizona many times but never saw this "working sundial" of 
> sorts.  It is on my bucket list now.
> 
> 
> I thought you might enjoy watching the beauty of math, the sun and time all 
> coming together.  There is a 30 second video of the solar display near the 
> bottom of the opening page at this URL.
> 
> 
> http://www.onlineatanthem.com/anthem-veterans-memorial 
> <http://www.onlineatanthem.com/anthem-veterans-memorial>
> 
> Anthem Veterans Memorial | Online At 
> Anthem<http://www.onlineatanthem.com/anthem-veterans-memorial 
> <http://www.onlineatanthem.com/anthem-veterans-memorial>>
> www.onlineatanthem.com <http://www.onlineatanthem.com/>
> Reserve the Anthem Veterans Memorial area for a special ceremony or event. 
> Please refer to the ACC Board Policy Manual for a complete list of facility 
> rules and ...
> 
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> 
> Art Krenzel

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Re: Unusual bi-annual sundial

[koolish]

Something else that happens twice a year is MIT Henge.

http://www.dickkoolish.com/rmk_page/mithenge.html

- Original Message -
From:
 "Art Krenzel" <phoenix98...@msn.com>

To:
"sundial@uni-koeln.de" <sundial@uni-koeln.de>
Cc:

Sent:
Wed, 18 Jan 2017 22:41:15 +
Subject:
Unusual bi-annual sundial

I have been to Arizona many times but never saw this "working
sundial" of sorts.  It is on my bucket list now. 

I thought you might enjoy watching the beauty of math, the sun and
time all coming together.  There is a 30 second video of the solar
display near the bottom of the opening page at this URL. 

http://www.onlineatanthem.com/anthem-veterans-memorial [1]  

  Anthem Veterans Memorial | Online At Anthem [2]
  www.onlineatanthem.com
  Reserve the Anthem Veterans Memorial area for a special ceremony or
event. Please refer to the ACC Board Policy Manual for a complete list
of facility rules and ...

Enjoy!

Art Krenzel

 

  

   

  

  

 

Links:
--
[1] http://www.onlineatanthem.com/anthem-veterans-memorial
[2] http://www.onlineatanthem.com/anthem-veterans-memorial

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Unusual bi-annual sundial

[Art Krenzel]

I have been to Arizona many times but never saw this "working sundial" of 
sorts.  It is on my bucket list now.


I thought you might enjoy watching the beauty of math, the sun and time all 
coming together.  There is a 30 second video of the solar display near the 
bottom of the opening page at this URL.


http://www.onlineatanthem.com/anthem-veterans-memorial

Anthem Veterans Memorial | Online At 
Anthem
www.onlineatanthem.com
Reserve the Anthem Veterans Memorial area for a special ceremony or event. 
Please refer to the ACC Board Policy Manual for a complete list of facility 
rules and ...


Enjoy!


Art Krenzel



















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