Re: [freenet-support] Newbie questions

[Arne Babenhauserheide]

Amuza  writes:

> On 22/01/17 19:01, Steve Dougherty wrote:
>> On 01/22/2017 12:27 PM, Amuza wrote:
>>> Does Freenet have any kind of real asynchronous messaging?
>> Yes, and it depends what you mean.
>
> I mean, something like this:
> Alice is online and sends a message which has Caroline (her Freenet
> friend) as the recipient, but Caroline is offline. Fortunately Barbara
> (who is a common Freenet friend of both Alice and Caroline) is online.
> Then Alice goes offline. Then Caroline goes online and receives Alice's
> message. Barbara (or other common online Freenet friend) automatically
> forwarded the message without being able to read it.

If you use freemail (email over Freenet), then yes: The data is uploaded
in encrypted form into Freenet and only Caroline can decrypt it. Barbara
does not even need to be a direct friend of the two: It can be any other
freenet node.

This is the generalized case of what you describe and powers most of the
pseudonymous communication in Freenet.

>>> If so, how does it work?
>> Darknet peers can send direct messages by clicking on the peer's name on
>> the friends page. If the peers are not both online and connected the
>> message will be deferred until they are. The user interface for this is
>> very poor but it does function.
>>
>> Otherwise, messaging tools like FLIP, Freemail, or Sone can do that.
>> [1][2][3] They work by inserting and fetching the messages as files.
>>
>
> I guess some of those three messaging tools do somehow the kind of
> asynchronous messaging I meant. Do they?

Freemail does the private communication.
Sone does Social-network-style communication with pseudonyms.
FLIP implements chat with an IRC interface.

> It does! Great explanations! As soon as I have a while I will try Freenet.
>
> Let me ask another one, this one is more difficult:
>
> In the case you, or anyone in this list, know a bit about other
> more-or-less similar decentralized tools like Retroshare, Zeronet, Tox,
> IPFS, etc, could you very briefly compare them to Freenet and easily say
> some advantage or disadvantage of some of those tools over Freenet?

For zeronet there’s an answer by Chris Double. Scroll down to Conclusion
for a comparison:
https://bluishcoder.co.nz/2015/01/15/decentralized-websites-with-zeronet.html

A note on IPFS and Freenet is available in his article about hosting
websites in Freenet (though mainly focused on hosting with Freenet):
https://bluishcoder.co.nz/2015/09/14/using-freenet-for-static-websites.html

For a comparison of Freenet with several other tools, see
http://www.draketo.de/proj/freenet-funding/#sec-9

Best wishes,
Arne
-- 
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heißt politisch sein
ohne es zu merken


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Re: [freenet-support] Newbie questions

[Steve Dougherty]

The Tor comparison is easiest to answer because there's a FAQ entry:
https://freenetproject.org/help.html#tor

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017, 6:14 AM Amuza  wrote:

>
>
> On 22/01/17 19:01, Steve Dougherty wrote:
>
> On 01/22/2017 12:27 PM, Amuza wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> I have never tried Freenet but I already have some questions:
>
> How do nodes discover each other?
>
> In opennet mode ("normal" or "low" network security) they connect to
> seed nodes (a list of which is included with the software) run by
> volunteers which provide them with an initial set of possible
> connections, and during normal operation performs path folding to
> maintain and improve its connections. [0]
>
> When not in opennet mode (and therefore in "darknet mode;" if both modes
> are in use it's "hybrid") connections must be manually and mutually added.
>
>
> Can nodes within a LAN connect to each other without any special
> configuration?
>
> It depends on what you mean by special configuration. It does require
> that the nodes' operators add one another as "friends" by trading node
> references, but this is intended as routine configuration.
>
>
> Do they need Internet access?
>
> No, but note that a completely isolated darknet would have no way to
> access the content available through the public opennet network. This
> includes updates to the software. As long as one member of the darknet
> is also connected to opennet this will not be the case. (Though
> performance will be slow.)
>
>
> Would nodes keep automatically connecting when they are in a LAN where
> some days there is no Internet access?
>
> Yes.
>
>
> Does Freenet have any kind of real asynchronous messaging?
>
> Yes, and it depends what you mean.
>
>
> I mean, something like this:
> Alice is online and sends a message which has Caroline (her Freenet
> friend) as the recipient, but Caroline is offline. Fortunately Barbara (who
> is a common Freenet friend of both Alice and Caroline) is online. Then
> Alice goes offline. Then Caroline goes online and receives Alice's message.
> Barbara (or other common online Freenet friend) automatically forwarded the
> message without being able to read it.
>
> If so, how does it work?
>
> Darknet peers can send direct messages by clicking on the peer's name on
> the friends page. If the peers are not both online and connected the
> message will be deferred until they are. The user interface for this is
> very poor but it does function.
>
> Otherwise, messaging tools like FLIP, Freemail, or Sone can do that.
> [1][2][3] They work by inserting and fetching the messages as files.
>
>
>
> I guess some of those three messaging tools do somehow the kind of
> asynchronous messaging I meant. Do they?
>
> Thank you!!
>
> Yep. :) Hope this helps.
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
> It does! Great explanations! As soon as I have a while I will try Freenet.
>
> Let me ask another one, this one is more difficult:
>
> In the case you, or anyone in this list, know a bit about other
> more-or-less similar decentralized tools like Retroshare, Zeronet, Tox,
> IPFS, etc, could you very briefly compare them to Freenet and easily say
> some advantage or disadvantage of some of those tools over Freenet?
>
> Thanks again.
>
> [0] https://wiki.freenetproject.org/Opennet
> [1]
> USK@pGQPA-9PcFiE3A2tCuCjacK165UaX07AQYw98iDQrNA,8gwQ67ytBNR03hNj7JU~ceeew22HVq6G50dcEeMcgks,AQACAAE/flip/12/
> [2] http://freesocial.draketo.de/freemail_en.html
> [3]
> USK@nwa8lHa271k2QvJ8aa0Ov7IHAV-DFOCFgmDt3X6BpCI,DuQSUZiI~agF8c-6tjsFFGuZ8eICrzWCILB60nT8KKo,AQACAAE/sone/75/
>
>
>
>
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Re: [freenet-support] Newbie questions

[Amuza]

On 22/01/17 19:01, Steve Dougherty wrote:
> On 01/22/2017 12:27 PM, Amuza wrote:
>> Hello!
>>
>> I have never tried Freenet but I already have some questions:
>>
>> How do nodes discover each other?
> In opennet mode ("normal" or "low" network security) they connect to
> seed nodes (a list of which is included with the software) run by
> volunteers which provide them with an initial set of possible
> connections, and during normal operation performs path folding to
> maintain and improve its connections. [0]
>
> When not in opennet mode (and therefore in "darknet mode;" if both modes
> are in use it's "hybrid") connections must be manually and mutually added.
>
>> Can nodes within a LAN connect to each other without any special
>> configuration?
> It depends on what you mean by special configuration. It does require
> that the nodes' operators add one another as "friends" by trading node
> references, but this is intended as routine configuration.
>
>> Do they need Internet access?
> No, but note that a completely isolated darknet would have no way to
> access the content available through the public opennet network. This
> includes updates to the software. As long as one member of the darknet
> is also connected to opennet this will not be the case. (Though
> performance will be slow.)
>
>> Would nodes keep automatically connecting when they are in a LAN where
>> some days there is no Internet access?
> Yes.
>
>> Does Freenet have any kind of real asynchronous messaging?
> Yes, and it depends what you mean.

I mean, something like this:
Alice is online and sends a message which has Caroline (her Freenet
friend) as the recipient, but Caroline is offline. Fortunately Barbara
(who is a common Freenet friend of both Alice and Caroline) is online.
Then Alice goes offline. Then Caroline goes online and receives Alice's
message. Barbara (or other common online Freenet friend) automatically
forwarded the message without being able to read it.
>
>> If so, how does it work?
> Darknet peers can send direct messages by clicking on the peer's name on
> the friends page. If the peers are not both online and connected the
> message will be deferred until they are. The user interface for this is
> very poor but it does function.
>
> Otherwise, messaging tools like FLIP, Freemail, or Sone can do that.
> [1][2][3] They work by inserting and fetching the messages as files.
>

I guess some of those three messaging tools do somehow the kind of
asynchronous messaging I meant. Do they?
>> Thank you!!
> Yep. :) Hope this helps.
>
> - Steve


It does! Great explanations! As soon as I have a while I will try Freenet.

Let me ask another one, this one is more difficult:

In the case you, or anyone in this list, know a bit about other
more-or-less similar decentralized tools like Retroshare, Zeronet, Tox,
IPFS, etc, could you very briefly compare them to Freenet and easily say
some advantage or disadvantage of some of those tools over Freenet?

Thanks again.

> [0] https://wiki.freenetproject.org/Opennet
> [1]
> USK@pGQPA-9PcFiE3A2tCuCjacK165UaX07AQYw98iDQrNA,8gwQ67ytBNR03hNj7JU~ceeew22HVq6G50dcEeMcgks,AQACAAE/flip/12/
> [2] http://freesocial.draketo.de/freemail_en.html
> [3]
> USK@nwa8lHa271k2QvJ8aa0Ov7IHAV-DFOCFgmDt3X6BpCI,DuQSUZiI~agF8c-6tjsFFGuZ8eICrzWCILB60nT8KKo,AQACAAE/sone/75/
>
>
>
> ___
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> Support@freenetproject.org
> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support
> Unsubscribe at http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support
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Re: [freenet-support] Newbie questions

[Steve Dougherty]

On 01/22/2017 12:27 PM, Amuza wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> I have never tried Freenet but I already have some questions:
> 
> How do nodes discover each other?

In opennet mode ("normal" or "low" network security) they connect to
seed nodes (a list of which is included with the software) run by
volunteers which provide them with an initial set of possible
connections, and during normal operation performs path folding to
maintain and improve its connections. [0]

When not in opennet mode (and therefore in "darknet mode;" if both modes
are in use it's "hybrid") connections must be manually and mutually added.

> Can nodes within a LAN connect to each other without any special
> configuration?

It depends on what you mean by special configuration. It does require
that the nodes' operators add one another as "friends" by trading node
references, but this is intended as routine configuration.

> Do they need Internet access?

No, but note that a completely isolated darknet would have no way to
access the content available through the public opennet network. This
includes updates to the software. As long as one member of the darknet
is also connected to opennet this will not be the case. (Though
performance will be slow.)

> Would nodes keep automatically connecting when they are in a LAN where
> some days there is no Internet access?

Yes.

> Does Freenet have any kind of real asynchronous messaging?

Yes, and it depends what you mean.

> If so, how does it work?

Darknet peers can send direct messages by clicking on the peer's name on
the friends page. If the peers are not both online and connected the
message will be deferred until they are. The user interface for this is
very poor but it does function.

Otherwise, messaging tools like FLIP, Freemail, or Sone can do that.
[1][2][3] They work by inserting and fetching the messages as files.

> Thank you!!

Yep. :) Hope this helps.

- Steve

[0] https://wiki.freenetproject.org/Opennet
[1]
USK@pGQPA-9PcFiE3A2tCuCjacK165UaX07AQYw98iDQrNA,8gwQ67ytBNR03hNj7JU~ceeew22HVq6G50dcEeMcgks,AQACAAE/flip/12/
[2] http://freesocial.draketo.de/freemail_en.html
[3]
USK@nwa8lHa271k2QvJ8aa0Ov7IHAV-DFOCFgmDt3X6BpCI,DuQSUZiI~agF8c-6tjsFFGuZ8eICrzWCILB60nT8KKo,AQACAAE/sone/75/



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[freenet-support] Newbie questions

[Amuza]

Hello!

I have never tried Freenet but I already have some questions:

How do nodes discover each other?
Can nodes within a LAN connect to each other without any special
configuration?
Do they need Internet access?
Would nodes keep automatically connecting when they are in a LAN where
some days there is no Internet access?

Does Freenet have any kind of real asynchronous messaging?
If so, how does it work?

Thank you!!
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[freenet-support] Newbie-questions

[4321fred1234]

Hello!

I consider running my own node and have the following Questions:
(By the way, you really should put some examples about bandwith, traffic and so 
on in the faq-section!)

1.
I´ve DSL with a variable IP that changes every 24 hours. My upstream bandwith 
is 20 (perhaps soon 40) kByte/s.
Can I run a node under these circumstances that is usefull to the 
freenet-project?
Is there more upstream- or downstream-traffic?

2.
Is there any difference between these possibillities:
a, I run my node 24 hours when I run it, but not every day.
b, I run my node all the time, but it has to reconnect every 24 hours and gets 
a new IP address every time.
c, I run my node a few hours every day, e.g. every night from 9 p.m. to 6 a.m.

3.
I would by a seperate PC as a server that doesn´t need too much energy. Would a 
Via CPU 1Ghz be enough? Or a old pentium 3 700Mhz? How much RAM do I need for 
20 (40) kb/s?

4.
What traffic have I to expect or what bandwith is indeed used all the time of 
my 20 (40) kb/s?

5.
How much HD space do I need? (When a DSL-flat for my node is costing 400$ a 
year, I don´t want to destroy the performance of my node by having too few HD 
space!!!)

6.
Do you know if its possible to install the software on gentoo-linux?
(That is only theoretecal, I´m still a absuolute newbie cocerning linux!!!)

7.Have you any experience in running a node on a rootserver? What CPU and RAM 
would I need to serve a bandwith of 2Mbit (up and down) ?

8. Are there any mechanisms included in freenet that prefer the distribution of 
small files like text? Otherwise, freenet could be kept small easily just by 
transfering some huge files which need a lot of traffic.
In other words: I don't want that there are a few people who share there movies 
and that makes the biggest part of my traffic and slows freenet down.

Thanks
Fred
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Re: [freenet-support] Newbie-questions

[Toad]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 05:39:48PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello!
 
 I consider running my own node and have the following Questions:
 (By the way, you really should put some examples about bandwith, traffic and 
 so on in the faq-section!)
 
 1.
 I?ve DSL with a variable IP that changes every 24 hours. My upstream bandwith 
 is 20 (perhaps soon 40) kByte/s.
 Can I run a node under these circumstances that is usefull to the 
 freenet-project?

Yes.

 Is there more upstream- or downstream-traffic?

It's roughly symmetrical. Depending on your usage.
 
 2.
 Is there any difference between these possibillities:
 a, I run my node 24 hours when I run it, but not every day.

This is okay.

 b, I run my node all the time, but it has to reconnect every 24 hours and 
 gets a new IP address every time.

This is better.

 c, I run my node a few hours every day, e.g. every night from 9 p.m. to 6 a.m.

This isn't so good.

More uptime is generally better.
 
 3.
 I would by a seperate PC as a server that doesn?t need too much energy. Would 
 a Via CPU 1Ghz be enough? Or a old pentium 3 700Mhz? How much RAM do I need 
 for 20 (40) kb/s?

Probably. You need around 192MB for the node... although people have
made them run in considerably less...
 
 4.
 What traffic have I to expect or what bandwith is indeed used all the time of 
 my 20 (40) kb/s?

You can throttle it down to 10kB/sec if you need to. But if you have a
monthly limit you will have problems.
 
 5.
 How much HD space do I need? (When a DSL-flat for my node is costing 400$ a 
 year, I don?t want to destroy the performance of my node by having too few HD 
 space!!!)

The default is 256MB, which is rather small, or 10% of available disk
space (on windows). I recommend you increase this to a reasonably large
size. 20GB is a bit large, but many people have nodes with even bigger
stores. 5GB should be useful to you and the network. As much as you can
afford, really, although really big stores may cause more memory usage.
 
 6.
 Do you know if its possible to install the software on gentoo-linux?
 (That is only theoretecal, I?m still a absuolute newbie cocerning linux!!!)

Yes, it is possible. I'm not sure you should be using gentoo if you're a
complete newbie though. :)
 
 7.Have you any experience in running a node on a rootserver? What CPU and RAM 
 would I need to serve a bandwith of 2Mbit (up and down) ?

What's a rootserver? You mean a vhost? To serve 2Mbps, you'd need a
bigger CPU and more RAM... it's been done though..
 
 8. Are there any mechanisms included in freenet that prefer the distribution 
 of small files like text? Otherwise, freenet could be kept small easily 
 just by transfering some huge files which need a lot of traffic.

If there were, people who want to share big files would simply split the
big files into lots of small textfile-sized chunks. Sorry, we have to
live with that. Besides which, there is small porn, large porn, small
politically interesting sites, large politically interesting videos,
largish leaked software... size is not always a good indicator of
content. And there is such a thing as cover traffic. Although
obviously I don't endorse any illegal files that may be transferred over
Freenet (except the Diebold files! ;) ).

 In other words: I don't want that there are a few people who share there 
 movies and that makes the biggest part of my traffic and slows freenet down.
 
 Thanks
 Fred
-- 
Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.


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Re: [freenet-support] Newbie-questions

[Todd Walton]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 17:39:48 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 6.
 Do you know if its possible to install the software on gentoo-linux?
 (That is only theoretecal, I´m still a absuolute newbie cocerning linux!!!)

It definitely is possible to install Freenet on Gentoo Linux.  If you
do, use the forums or email me with problems you have.  I'm running
Freenet on Gentoo, and I've seen and conquered the couple of problems
you might run into.

-todd
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