Re: Sad Story
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 10:47 PM, Karthik Kumar wrote: > > So, this kernel fix is a feature, according to Al Johnson? Then why do > they need a hardware fix? Unless I am missing something, this software > fix seems to be a lie. Or the hardware fix seems to be bogus anyway. I > have one of the earlier freerunners released, so I'm sure Openmoko > owes an explanation. > You're missing a few things, but not laziness or stupidity. My freerunner has had every hardware problem except the WSOD. It can used as a daily phone with a little work. 1) GPS Openmoko found 2 solutions to this one. One hardware and on software. Mine only has the software fix but works as well any any other unassisted GPS. 2) BUZZ Openmoko found a hardware solution. I really hope you attempt this one. 3) Suspend and resume. Openmoko has solved the kernel issues with this one. A few more userland fixes and it should be rock solid. 4) Echo Numerous community solutions. You probably won't find this one as it takes some research and a little tweaking depending one Freerunner model and cell provider. 5) bug 666 Openmoko fixed in GSM firmware 6) bug 1024 Openmoko is working on it. Community found a work around. Power consupmtion is slightly higher but perfectly workable. 7) WSOD Fixes in Andy's kernel 8) battery discharging even when plugged in Openmoko working on it ( maybe already fixed in new kernels ) 9) unable to boot with discharged battery Numerous work arounds If your complaint isn't on this list file a bug. If it is quit whinning do some research and possibly contribute to the community. Angus -- Angus Ainslie http://www.handheldshell.com/ ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: FSO & Android (was: Sad Story)
Please don't mix teams, distributions, and efforts. FSO is an initiative building a dbus-based framework for mobile devices, 100% funded by Openmoko. The FSO team evolved out of Openmoko's Framework Team. FSO provides a dbus API and a reference implementation that is supposed to run on as many devices as we can manage -- including the GTA's, but also a lot of non-Openmoko devices. Openmoko 2008.x is a distribution, which does not include the new framework, since Qtopia is the framework used there. Openmoko 2009.x will be a distribution including the FSO framework. A personal remark: With all these semiopen initiatives going live, I see Openmoko being more and more important for free software, not less. At the end of the day, OM is still only free open mobile communications platform(*) out there -- and I don't see that changing soon. Cheers, -- :M: (*) A platform is a combination of hardware and software, not just one of them. What use is a software that I can not put on my closed device? Likewise what use is hardware that I can't update with my own software. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: FSO & Android (was: Sad Story)
Wolfgang, Thank you for your reply. I now understand the situation better. My previous impression was that FSO and OM had a significantly different code base and not terribly compatible with each other. In any case, I am still hopeful for OM. The usability team, I felt, was exactly what OM needed to bring the phone closer to being a phone. But alas and alack. -- Paul Email - pault...@gmail.com There were moments when he looked on evil simply as a mode through which he could realize his conception of the beautiful. Oscar Wilde - The Picture of Dorian Gray ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
FSO & Android (was: Sad Story)
Paul, > create a working phone. Passing the buck to FSO is passing the torch > to someone else. This is what OM has done. We are funding FSO. This is called teamwork :-) FSO concentrates on the framework, and standardizing interfaces for mobile phones. FSO = freesmartphone.org Openmoko concentrates engineering on the lower level (kernel & drivers), as well as on the top-most level (UI design). All of this is made possible by our community buying our phones and helping with development everywhere. > I'm sure the majority of hardware owners are awaiting Google Android. The cool thing about Free Software is it's configurability and modularity. Try to build a product with half of Android. Won't work. Half of Debian, let alone any image generated with OpenEmbedded? No problem. Best Regards, Wolfgang On Dec 16, 2008, at 3:47 AM, Paul wrote: > Seeing the responses to criticism, it is clear why OpenMoko is where > it is today. If a significant portion of the community is frustrated > at the status of this project, the best course of action is to address > the concerns of the community. Does telling people to buy an iphone > accomplish anything but lower your social standing on this list? > > The main reason of why Open Source works is because people are able to > criticize. When the criticisms are taken into account, real progress > can be had. > > We as a community were warned of the alpha status of the phone. What > we expected was that the community and company would work hand in hand > to create a viable phone solution. Yet, it is clear that the resolve > of the Company is waning and the rest of the community is left holding > the bag. Now we have people blaming us because we are holding the > bag. > > Just because a project is Open Source, doesn't guarantee its success. > We have a lot of people working hard to resolve issues, yet we haven't > achieved our goal. We need to refocus our goals and objectives to > create a working phone. Passing the buck to FSO is passing the torch > to someone else. This is what OM has done. > > I'm sure the majority of hardware owners are awaiting Google Android. > -- > Paul > Email - pault...@gmail.com > > There were moments when he looked on evil simply as a mode through > which he could realize his conception of the beautiful. > Oscar Wilde - The Picture of Dorian Gray > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
>From now on, I'm listening only if it's a complaint, or if Openmoko is fixing something on GTA02. I couldn't care less if Openmoko's moving on, because I'm moving on. Oh, the community's messages isn't going under my radar at all; Because if it's going legal, _ONLY_ Openmoko is going to get it's ass kicked. That will show them the reality of business and this world. If anybody not from Openmoko is hijacking this thread believing I am attacking the community at large, they are just foolish and putting unneccessary effort upon themselves. And Oh: I do not care if I'm getting shunned by you, you're putting me on ignore, or asking me to buy an iPhone, because I am primarily conversing ONLY with Openmoko. From now on, I wouldn't care to return non-Openmoko-ers insults. If Openmoko is going to sort out specific GTA02 problems within this year, send it out. Since Openmoko's release this July, it's been nothing but utter disappointment and sheer carelessness from Openmoko's side. And if it's all lies and greed, I don't believe in Karma, I believe in legal course. If someone else is also interested in class-action, pvt. me and we'll see what their 'business' is all about. Thanks All. -Karthik ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Instead of just bitching about me, why don't you do something constructive, dipshit^U? On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:09 AM, Joel Newkirk wrote: > On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:43:32 +1100, Dale Maggee > wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Karthik Kumar wrote: I know better. >> >> I could debate that at great length, cuz it's pretty god damn obvious to >> us all that you don't know shit, but I've had a better Idea - I'm just >> gonna create a filter to automatically delete anything sent by you. I >> hope for your sake you never have a problem with NeoTool. >> >> bye now. > > I did that several days ago - he joined 'dip^H^H^Hnishit dave' in my filter > list. > > nothing like a good old fashioned shunning. :) > > j > > -- > Joel Newkirk > http://jthinks.com (blog) > http://newkirk.us/om (FR stuff) > > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > -- Karthik http://guilt.bafsoft.net ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:43:32 +1100, Dale Maggee wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Karthik Kumar wrote: >>> I know better. > > I could debate that at great length, cuz it's pretty god damn obvious to > us all that you don't know shit, but I've had a better Idea - I'm just > gonna create a filter to automatically delete anything sent by you. I > hope for your sake you never have a problem with NeoTool. > > bye now. I did that several days ago - he joined 'dip^H^H^Hnishit dave' in my filter list. nothing like a good old fashioned shunning. :) j -- Joel Newkirk http://jthinks.com (blog) http://newkirk.us/om (FR stuff) ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 02:21:55 +0530 Karthik Kumar babbled: > Al Johnson wrote: > > Neither are representatives of Openmoko. They have bought phones just as > > you and I have. I suspect that they are frustrated by this long and > > unproductive thread, and by your perceived attitude. You don't appear to be > > interested in getting solutions to whatever problems you may be having. > > Suggesting someone is lying when they try to correct your misunderstanding > > is just plain offencive where I come from, as are your unsubstantiated > > accusations about Openmoko and their staff. This may simply be a cultural > > misunderstanding, as is often the case on international lists, in which > > case I suggest you correct it now. > > See, I do understand that they've got their own pressures. But by merely > trying to work on GTA03 (hardware or software), it's like they've thrown i think here you have the reality of producing a device wrong. let me put this straight. i used to work at openmoko. but i do not speak for them. openmoko employs a group of people. some of them do hardware, some software. the hardware goes do not know software or how to fix the higher level stuff - do you expect them to sit idle and do NOTHING (not work on gta03) and get paid for twiddling thumbs just because you are unhappy with the gta02? hell no. reality is that they march on to do gta03. some of software implicitly marches on too. openmoko is paying people to work on gta02 SOFTWARE and fix things. they spend their days doing it. they can do little to FIX hardware you have as it's in your hands. they CAN fix software as you can trivially download/flash updates. i am not addressing ANYTHING ELSE you have said - i'm leaving it well alone. i am ONLY addressing the work on GTA03 - they HAVE to do it. it's a reality of business because they have a hardware division that otherwise sits idle. -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 02:21 +0530, Karthik Kumar wrote: > See, I do understand that they've got their own pressures. But by merely > trying to work on GTA03 (hardware or software), it's like they've thrown > their hands off the GTA02. And that's not the right attitude towards > that either. I hope that this thread at least awakens them to the > reality that their users are frustrated with them not doing anything > over the GTA02. .. I have been following this thread for a while and I'm fairly sure it's been explained to you very specifically (and even if not, there have been at least a few posts about this): when they said they were working on gta03 they meant the software stack that will be default for the gta03 hardware. This means the old gta02 will still work with the new software, they are just calling the new one gta03 internally/by mistake/whatever. No one is abandoning gta02, there have never been any plans mentioned on the list to do so (not by any openmoko rep anyway), the focus has just changed to a stack that will work even better (FSO if you were wondering). The reason some people are getting pissed at you (and telling you to go buy an iphone) is because people have explained almost all of your complaints, in great detail, and until recently you did not seem to comprehend that. Criticism is good, very good, but if and only if it is constructive- that is key. If you complain about something that is already being worked on or that already has been fixed that is not constructive. Also remember that this is a public list in that anyone can post on here, not just representatives of openmoko, though they can and do as well. I'm going to provide you a list of places you should search and look through before complaining things do not work. The wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page -start here, enter queries into the search bar, lots of info The mailing lists: http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/ -some posts have s much info on specific problems- but seeing as how you are posting here I'm sure you knew of those. The bug tacker: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ -here you will see if and when specific problems have been reported, when they will get fixed, and you can even report bugs there (i would strongly recommended reading through http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bug_Filing_Policy it will give you all the detail you need to filing a good *constructive* bug report). A good kernel (I haven't tried it myself but i've heard good things about it): http://people.openmoko.org/andy/ The kernel I use (though a touch dated now, still not bad): http://moko.mwester.net/ If you have not seen this already, I think you might enjoy it quite a bit: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Jokes Last but not least, if you want a working phone above all else- incidentally what I also require- http://other.lastnetwork.net/OpenMoko/ has some supposedly good qt extended images. Use in combo with Andy tracking and if that does not work mwester's kernel is good. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions - a detailed list of distro's To be clear, complain if there is a genuine problem- that is good, but check other places first to make sure it has not been acknowledged. (while i'm venting) One other thing I noticed about the thread that bothered me, someone had said something to the effect of: this thread would not exist if there were no problems, therefor the problems must exist. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question a very common logical fallacy. There are many things one can do with a freerunner, even with the constant changes that go on, I hope you find a combo of software that works for you and your needs. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Karthik Kumar wrote: >> I know better. I could debate that at great length, cuz it's pretty god damn obvious to us all that you don't know shit, but I've had a better Idea - I'm just gonna create a filter to automatically delete anything sent by you. I hope for your sake you never have a problem with NeoTool. bye now. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJRt2TFbVnQRV3OEYRAo7nAJ0aoKsVyqebSdK2YfULPBq2YUKejwCfdm2d 47HxhLbTnMGK2mTAIlacvkQ= =ttHp -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Hi all, I'm quite impressed and dissapointed about what the mail I sent has caused. I could have not imagine it...I'm sorry. I would like to say what I think, trying not to reply or offend anyone so, please we can stop with this thread now, or at least this is my last mail. Open source is a matter of work, patience and hopes. When we bought an OM mobile, we knew that it was on the cutting edge of GPL mobile software technology. We could have a linux box in our pocket, integrating a music player, mobile phone, computer, etc, all in one. We were excited about all the posibilities it could have, and We wanted it to work well and now. But things are not so easy: design HW errors, difficulties in kernel development, problems with UI integration... As a result, we blame on the neighbour of all this, but that, in my opinion, is not they way to follow, every one has his part of responsibility. Everybody of us could help more instead of creating a feeling of tension in the air. It's true there are HW problems, maybe they will never get fixed in software and they'll need a HW repair, but this is an OM matter, and their decision will be important in future purchases of us. Soon or later all the work that is being made here by the community will be taken in advantage by others mobile manufacturers. It's a matter of OM to design good mobile phones if they want to be chosen by us in the near future. I'm sure they are putting their best efforts on it. Some of us are dissapointed with the actual OM mobile phones. This phones are pioneers, it's sad to say, but it's all what we get by now. So, if someone has no patience, no hopes and don't want to help us in this, I would advise him to sell the phone. Working on something without entusiasm will age you sooner. For all of you who hope some day to pick up your phone in a lift full of people and that the phone has battery on it or it doen't show de WSOD or whatever, stay here and try to help everybody in making better our phone. Everyone here, OM, kernel developers, etc, see the problems, but they don't need us to blame them, all they need of us is hopes, patience and work, no more. best regards. -- Juan Cañete Azorín hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95 ... Powered by Linux signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Battery decay is not linear. On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: > Stefan Monnier writes: >> - unreliable suspend (supposedly fixed in upcoming kernels) > > Yes, I have used stable-tracking 80f4b57fef now for 15 days and resume > works as long as I have use "sleep 4; apm -s; sleep 4" to suspend > (there is some race somewhere but this avoids it). > >> - constant re-registration (here as well, there's a software >> workaround, which apparently causes a minor reduction in autonomy, tho >> it's not clear yet how minor: it depends on how well suspend works for >> you). > > Here I lose about 3.6 percentage units per hour. If the units are > linear that means 100/3.6 = 28 hours of suspend time. This is enough > for me since I can charge the phone over night. > > I also bought external USB battery for $14 from > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3060 which I use when I am > away from home for more than one day. > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Stefan Monnier writes: > - unreliable suspend (supposedly fixed in upcoming kernels) Yes, I have used stable-tracking 80f4b57fef now for 15 days and resume works as long as I have use "sleep 4; apm -s; sleep 4" to suspend (there is some race somewhere but this avoids it). > - constant re-registration (here as well, there's a software > workaround, which apparently causes a minor reduction in autonomy, tho > it's not clear yet how minor: it depends on how well suspend works for you). Here I lose about 3.6 percentage units per hour. If the units are linear that means 100/3.6 = 28 hours of suspend time. This is enough for me since I can charge the phone over night. I also bought external USB battery for $14 from http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3060 which I use when I am away from home for more than one day. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Karthik Kumar escribió: What were they doing before this thread then? They were working as hard as they can, perhaps even harder. Me and many others have seen that, sorry you can't, but you will. Were they productive at all? If they were, this thread wouldn't exist. This thread exists becouse some bulgars stole Juan Cañate's FR, remember? That is why the subject was "sad story" in the first place. But eventhough it _is_ a sad story, you have make it much more sad. And, if they wanted to be productive, using this thread would be their worst excuse to do something. If they deliver, I'll stop talking on this thread. Andy asked you to do it before, but I do +1 on it. You just fork this senseless thread and ask for specific things. You don't go with "I want it to work right know", please. Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible - On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 9:12 PM, Al Johnson wrote: Neither are representatives of Openmoko. They have bought phones just as you and I have. I suspect that they are frustrated by this long and unproductive thread, and by your perceived attitude. You don't appear to be interested in getting solutions to whatever problems you may be having. Suggesting someone is lying when they try to correct your misunderstanding is just plain offencive where I come from, as are your unsubstantiated accusations about Openmoko and their staff. This may simply be a cultural misunderstanding, as is often the case on international lists, in which case I suggest you correct it now. On Monday 15 December 2008, Karthik Kumar wrote: Is that how you reply as a company which makes a phone? We can't fix it so go buy our competitors' closed phones? I'd expect better from you (like saying, yes, we'll fix it) than buy our competitor's phone. If i had bought the competitors' phone, i wouldn't be cribbing now that i've bought your phone, right? Maybe Openmoko should trade in iPhones instead of Freerunners, considering I already paid for a Freerunner. What do you think for that for a response? On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 4:44 PM, arne anka wrote: Karthik: I think I probably speak for a reasonable portion of the community when I say this: Go buy an iphone. Put your FreeRunner on ebay. You'll like the iphone - +1 ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Al Johnson wrote: > Neither are representatives of Openmoko. They have bought phones just as you > and I have. I suspect that they are frustrated by this long and unproductive > thread, and by your perceived attitude. You don't appear to be interested in > getting solutions to whatever problems you may be having. Suggesting someone > is lying when they try to correct your misunderstanding is just plain > offencive where I come from, as are your unsubstantiated accusations about > Openmoko and their staff. This may simply be a cultural misunderstanding, as > is often the case on international lists, in which case I suggest you correct > it now. > See, I do understand that they've got their own pressures. But by merely trying to work on GTA03 (hardware or software), it's like they've thrown their hands off the GTA02. And that's not the right attitude towards that either. I hope that this thread at least awakens them to the reality that their users are frustrated with them not doing anything over the GTA02. If they did sort out ALL major issues (kernel, GSM firmware, u-boot, major device userland daemons) then they could at least feel better about themselves. But simply switching to work on GTA03 is to piss on the community which has funded you till now. I hope they take this up seriously than treat it as a discouragement or dismiss it as a whiny joke :P > On Monday 15 December 2008, Karthik Kumar wrote: > >> Is that how you reply as a company which makes a phone? We can't fix >> it so go buy our competitors' closed phones? I'd expect better from >> you (like saying, yes, we'll fix it) than buy our competitor's phone. >> If i had bought the competitors' phone, i wouldn't be cribbing now >> that i've bought your phone, right? >> >> Maybe Openmoko should trade in iPhones instead of Freerunners, >> considering I already paid for a Freerunner. What do you think for >> that for a response? >> >> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 4:44 PM, arne anka wrote: >> Karthik: I think I probably speak for a reasonable portion of the community when I say this: Go buy an iphone. Put your FreeRunner on ebay. You'll like the iphone - >>> +1 >>> >>> ___ >>> support mailing list >>> support@lists.openmoko.org >>> https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support >>> >> ___ >> support mailing list >> support@lists.openmoko.org >> https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support >> > > > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > > ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Okay, Al. That's one of the most sensible replies on this thread; I hear ya. I'll dig deeper into this. Al Johnson wrote: > On Monday 15 December 2008, Karthik Kumar wrote: > >> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 5:35 AM, Stefan Monnier >> >> wrote: >> >> There are still hardware problems that exist with almost every >> freerunner out there (GPS signal levels, for one). I would like to >> see them fixed by Openmoko, Inc. >> The kernel fix for GPS is a mere quirk. Ideally it should get fixed in hardware. >>> Huh? The kernel fix seems to work OK for those people who have old >>> FRs. Newer FRs have a hardware fix. E.g. my FR doesn't need any >>> kernel workaround. No need to wait for GTA03 to get a hardware fix. >>> >> So, this kernel fix is a feature, according to Al Johnson? Then why do >> they need a hardware fix? >> > > They don't. Neither of my Freerunners has the hardware fix, and the GPS works > just fine with any kernel that includes the fix. > > >> Unless I am missing something, this software >> fix seems to be a lie. Or the hardware fix seems to be bogus anyway. >> > > You are missing something, so I will try to explain. The 'hardware fix' is a > small capacitor from the SD clock line to ground, and was a quick response to > the problem when the SD was discovered to be interfering with the GPS. This > slows the transition between the digital high and low states, reducing the > level of interference generated. Reducing the drive strength does the same > thing, but through a slightly different mechanism, and doesn't require a > soldering iron to make the change. Note that the hardware fix only reduces > interference from the clock line. The kernel fix reduces interference from > the other signal lines too. > > To understand the issues more fully I suggest you read up on the analogue > properties of digital electronics, particularly in regard to the speed of > transitions and their effect on EMI. > > >> I have one of the earlier freerunners released, so I'm sure Openmoko >> owes an explanation. >> > > Both hardware and software fixes were discussed extensively on the lists, and > are in the list archive. > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > > ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
> So, this kernel fix is a feature, according to Al Johnson? Then why do > they need a hardware fix? Unless I am missing something, this software > fix seems to be a lie. Or the hardware fix seems to be bogus anyway. > I have one of the earlier freerunners released, so I'm sure Openmoko > owes an explanation. I do not know. I simply know that the FR I got a few months ago has a fully functional GPS: works just as well as any other GPS around. Also, for those people who had an earlier FR, there is a software workaround that apparently makes it work almost as good as well. I'm not sure what more do you expect. To recapitulate, you said: > There are still hardware problems that exist with almost every > freerunner out there (GPS signal levels, for one). I would like to > see them fixed by Openmoko, Inc. AFAIK, the problems of GPS signal level only affect a fairly small proportion of the FRs out there, and they have been fixed by Openmoko. There are plenty of real problems left, that I don't see why we should bring this GPS problem back from the dead. Of the real problems: - unreliable suspend (supposedly fixed in upcoming kernels) - echo (there's supposedly a software workaround, but it basically puts the phone in a sort of half-duplex mode, so it's not perfect). - buzz. - constant re-registration (here as well, there's a software workaround, which apparently causes a minor reduction in autonomy, tho it's not clear yet how minor: it depends on how well suspend works for you). - the audio line-out is unusable to listen to music because of a poorly chosen capacitor that cuts off low-frequencies. - the wifi antenna apparently stays on even while you suspend, reducing autonomy. - wifi with WPA has trouble switching to some other networks (apparently someone is working on this or may even have found the bug already). - ... Stefan ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
What were they doing before this thread then? Were they productive at all? If they were, this thread wouldn't exist. And, if they wanted to be productive, using this thread would be their worst excuse to do something. If they deliver, I'll stop talking on this thread. On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 9:12 PM, Al Johnson wrote: > Neither are representatives of Openmoko. They have bought phones just as you > and I have. I suspect that they are frustrated by this long and unproductive > thread, and by your perceived attitude. You don't appear to be interested in > getting solutions to whatever problems you may be having. Suggesting someone > is lying when they try to correct your misunderstanding is just plain > offencive where I come from, as are your unsubstantiated accusations about > Openmoko and their staff. This may simply be a cultural misunderstanding, as > is often the case on international lists, in which case I suggest you correct > it now. > > On Monday 15 December 2008, Karthik Kumar wrote: >> Is that how you reply as a company which makes a phone? We can't fix >> it so go buy our competitors' closed phones? I'd expect better from >> you (like saying, yes, we'll fix it) than buy our competitor's phone. >> If i had bought the competitors' phone, i wouldn't be cribbing now >> that i've bought your phone, right? >> >> Maybe Openmoko should trade in iPhones instead of Freerunners, >> considering I already paid for a Freerunner. What do you think for >> that for a response? >> >> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 4:44 PM, arne anka wrote: >> >> Karthik: >> >> >> >> I think I probably speak for a reasonable portion of the community when >> >> I say this: >> >> >> >> Go buy an iphone. Put your FreeRunner on ebay. You'll like the iphone - >> > >> > +1 >> > >> > ___ >> > support mailing list >> > support@lists.openmoko.org >> > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support >> >> ___ >> support mailing list >> support@lists.openmoko.org >> https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > > > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > -- Karthik http://guilt.bafsoft.net ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 6:50 PM, Dale Maggee wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Karthik Kumar wrote: >> Is that how you reply as a company which makes a phone? We can't fix >> it so go buy our competitors' closed phones? I'd expect better from >> you (like saying, yes, we'll fix it) than buy our competitor's phone. > > Um... when did openmoko say anything of the sort? Am I an OM employee > but I just don't know it? you've just demonstrated yourself to be even > stupider than I thought, which I must admit is quite an accomplishment, > congratulations. So you're not from Openmoko? Piss off, b*tch, You don't need to tell me what I should do, I know better. > > No, really, go buy an iphone - they're designed for morons. You'll fit > right in. > >> If i had bought the competitors' phone, i wouldn't be cribbing now >> that i've bought your phone, right? > > No, you'd be languishing in an idiot's paradise, making phone calls and > not bitching constantly... ok, so maybe that's premature, I'm sure you'd > find something to bitch about... it's just that then you'd have to bitch > to apple, and not us, and since apple don't care once they've got your > money and can send automated responses, and we wouldn't have to put up > with you anymore, it's really just a better arrangement for everybody. > >> Maybe Openmoko should trade in iPhones instead of Freerunners, >> considering I already paid for a Freerunner. What do you think for >> that for a response? > > What do I think of that for a response? Stupid and uninformed. What a > big suprise. > > If it's really that bad, put your FR on ebay and go buy an iphone. > everybody will be happier - not just you, but the thousands of poor sods > like me who's inboxes are being clogged up on a daily basis with your > bullshit. > > fsck off and go buy an iphone. Seriously. > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFJRlmfFbVnQRV3OEYRAoE7AJwIPDdrPxY6ImZFShtQXfXiWQR3ZgCgq1/a > tXOJSTJI3Chncho4eKlIvUI= > =T4w/ > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > -- Karthik http://guilt.bafsoft.net ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Seeing the responses to criticism, it is clear why OpenMoko is where it is today. If a significant portion of the community is frustrated at the status of this project, the best course of action is to address the concerns of the community. Does telling people to buy an iphone accomplish anything but lower your social standing on this list? The main reason of why Open Source works is because people are able to criticize. When the criticisms are taken into account, real progress can be had. We as a community were warned of the alpha status of the phone. What we expected was that the community and company would work hand in hand to create a viable phone solution. Yet, it is clear that the resolve of the Company is waning and the rest of the community is left holding the bag. Now we have people blaming us because we are holding the bag. Just because a project is Open Source, doesn't guarantee its success. We have a lot of people working hard to resolve issues, yet we haven't achieved our goal. We need to refocus our goals and objectives to create a working phone. Passing the buck to FSO is passing the torch to someone else. This is what OM has done. I'm sure the majority of hardware owners are awaiting Google Android. -- Paul Email - pault...@gmail.com There were moments when he looked on evil simply as a mode through which he could realize his conception of the beautiful. Oscar Wilde - The Picture of Dorian Gray ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Neither are representatives of Openmoko. They have bought phones just as you and I have. I suspect that they are frustrated by this long and unproductive thread, and by your perceived attitude. You don't appear to be interested in getting solutions to whatever problems you may be having. Suggesting someone is lying when they try to correct your misunderstanding is just plain offencive where I come from, as are your unsubstantiated accusations about Openmoko and their staff. This may simply be a cultural misunderstanding, as is often the case on international lists, in which case I suggest you correct it now. On Monday 15 December 2008, Karthik Kumar wrote: > Is that how you reply as a company which makes a phone? We can't fix > it so go buy our competitors' closed phones? I'd expect better from > you (like saying, yes, we'll fix it) than buy our competitor's phone. > If i had bought the competitors' phone, i wouldn't be cribbing now > that i've bought your phone, right? > > Maybe Openmoko should trade in iPhones instead of Freerunners, > considering I already paid for a Freerunner. What do you think for > that for a response? > > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 4:44 PM, arne anka wrote: > >> Karthik: > >> > >> I think I probably speak for a reasonable portion of the community when > >> I say this: > >> > >> Go buy an iphone. Put your FreeRunner on ebay. You'll like the iphone - > > > > +1 > > > > ___ > > support mailing list > > support@lists.openmoko.org > > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Monday 15 December 2008, Karthik Kumar wrote: > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 5:35 AM, Stefan Monnier > > wrote: > There are still hardware problems that exist with almost every > freerunner out there (GPS signal levels, for one). I would like to > see them fixed by Openmoko, Inc. > >> > >> The kernel fix for GPS is a mere quirk. Ideally it should get fixed in > >> hardware. > > > > Huh? The kernel fix seems to work OK for those people who have old > > FRs. Newer FRs have a hardware fix. E.g. my FR doesn't need any > > kernel workaround. No need to wait for GTA03 to get a hardware fix. > > So, this kernel fix is a feature, according to Al Johnson? Then why do > they need a hardware fix? They don't. Neither of my Freerunners has the hardware fix, and the GPS works just fine with any kernel that includes the fix. > Unless I am missing something, this software > fix seems to be a lie. Or the hardware fix seems to be bogus anyway. You are missing something, so I will try to explain. The 'hardware fix' is a small capacitor from the SD clock line to ground, and was a quick response to the problem when the SD was discovered to be interfering with the GPS. This slows the transition between the digital high and low states, reducing the level of interference generated. Reducing the drive strength does the same thing, but through a slightly different mechanism, and doesn't require a soldering iron to make the change. Note that the hardware fix only reduces interference from the clock line. The kernel fix reduces interference from the other signal lines too. To understand the issues more fully I suggest you read up on the analogue properties of digital electronics, particularly in regard to the speed of transitions and their effect on EMI. > I have one of the earlier freerunners released, so I'm sure Openmoko > owes an explanation. Both hardware and software fixes were discussed extensively on the lists, and are in the list archive. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Karthik Kumar wrote: > Is that how you reply as a company which makes a phone? We can't fix > it so go buy our competitors' closed phones? I'd expect better from > you (like saying, yes, we'll fix it) than buy our competitor's phone. Um... when did openmoko say anything of the sort? Am I an OM employee but I just don't know it? you've just demonstrated yourself to be even stupider than I thought, which I must admit is quite an accomplishment, congratulations. No, really, go buy an iphone - they're designed for morons. You'll fit right in. > If i had bought the competitors' phone, i wouldn't be cribbing now > that i've bought your phone, right? No, you'd be languishing in an idiot's paradise, making phone calls and not bitching constantly... ok, so maybe that's premature, I'm sure you'd find something to bitch about... it's just that then you'd have to bitch to apple, and not us, and since apple don't care once they've got your money and can send automated responses, and we wouldn't have to put up with you anymore, it's really just a better arrangement for everybody. > Maybe Openmoko should trade in iPhones instead of Freerunners, > considering I already paid for a Freerunner. What do you think for > that for a response? What do I think of that for a response? Stupid and uninformed. What a big suprise. If it's really that bad, put your FR on ebay and go buy an iphone. everybody will be happier - not just you, but the thousands of poor sods like me who's inboxes are being clogged up on a daily basis with your bullshit. fsck off and go buy an iphone. Seriously. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJRlmfFbVnQRV3OEYRAoE7AJwIPDdrPxY6ImZFShtQXfXiWQR3ZgCgq1/a tXOJSTJI3Chncho4eKlIvUI= =T4w/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Is that how you reply as a company which makes a phone? We can't fix it so go buy our competitors' closed phones? I'd expect better from you (like saying, yes, we'll fix it) than buy our competitor's phone. If i had bought the competitors' phone, i wouldn't be cribbing now that i've bought your phone, right? Maybe Openmoko should trade in iPhones instead of Freerunners, considering I already paid for a Freerunner. What do you think for that for a response? On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 4:44 PM, arne anka wrote: >> Karthik: >> >> I think I probably speak for a reasonable portion of the community when >> I say this: >> >> Go buy an iphone. Put your FreeRunner on ebay. You'll like the iphone - > > +1 > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: pointless ranting was: Re: Sad Story
Arne, am I the only one paranoid here? How do we know that you're not just lying about GTA03 being only plain software. And, if you are, do we blame openmoko when it releases the actual GTA03 board next year? And, if you're not, why don't you instead fix the CURRENT GTA02 software? ;p -Karthik On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 4:34 PM, arne anka wrote: >>> if you refuse to check archives and to read mails and instead insist on >>> perpetuating your misstatement, nobody can help you! >> >> Then this link be updated. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA03 > > > i give up. > you are deliberatly confusing things just to prove your point, imo. > > eot for me. > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
> Karthik: > > I think I probably speak for a reasonable portion of the community when > I say this: > > Go buy an iphone. Put your FreeRunner on ebay. You'll like the iphone - +1 ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: pointless ranting was: Re: Sad Story
>> if you refuse to check archives and to read mails and instead insist on >> perpetuating your misstatement, nobody can help you! > > Then this link be updated. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA03 i give up. you are deliberatly confusing things just to prove your point, imo. eot for me. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Karthik Kumar wrote: >(Many many trollish and uninformed things) Karthik: I think I probably speak for a reasonable portion of the community when I say this: Go buy an iphone. Put your FreeRunner on ebay. You'll like the iphone - it has DRM and you can buy software for it! And if you don't like it, you can lodge a support ticket with Apple, who will be more than happy to send you an automated response containing no real information... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJRhyeFbVnQRV3OEYRAtRRAKCBWVHL+JPiblTmKhLQUvUD0Vf5PQCgqAFG Cc9IZtW3AlGyxQnRhq/hDfA= =o0K3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
You might do better to read back on the emails ... the hardware fix is the kludge in my view - it is on one of the clock lines. They did this early on, and it did have an effect. THEN they found that it was improved by only clocking the SD card when neccessary (i.e., access). Then lastly, they discovered that the clock drive was set too high (max). Once they had all the info, all the fixes were in (cap, correct drive and SD card clocking on on access), things were good. The cap seems to have an effect, but is minor compared to the others, but its "in the system" so stayed. The majority of earlier FR's dont have it (including mine) and work fine. Oh, and if you really want it, there's a SOP laying out how to add it yourself. Going from memory for the above, but it should be largely right. BillK On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 11:17 +0530, Karthik Kumar wrote: > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 5:35 AM, Stefan Monnier > wrote: > There are still hardware problems that exist with almost every > freerunner out there (GPS signal levels, for one). I would like to > see them fixed by Openmoko, Inc. > >> The kernel fix for GPS is a mere quirk. Ideally it should get fixed in > >> hardware. > > > > Huh? The kernel fix seems to work OK for those people who have old > > FRs. Newer FRs have a hardware fix. E.g. my FR doesn't need any > > kernel workaround. No need to wait for GTA03 to get a hardware fix. > > So, this kernel fix is a feature, according to Al Johnson? Then why do > they need a hardware fix? Unless I am missing something, this software > fix seems to be a lie. Or the hardware fix seems to be bogus anyway. I > have one of the earlier freerunners released, so I'm sure Openmoko > owes an explanation. > > > > > > >Stefan > > > > > > > > ___ > > support mailing list > > support@lists.openmoko.org > > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support -- William Kenworthy Home in Perth! ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Karthik- >>> hardware. >> Huh? The kernel fix seems to work OK for those people who have old >> FRs. Newer FRs have a hardware fix. E.g. my FR doesn't need any >> kernel workaround. No need to wait for GTA03 to get a hardware fix. > > So, this kernel fix is a feature, according to Al Johnson? Then why do > they need a hardware fix? Unless I am missing something, this software > fix seems to be a lie. Or the hardware fix seems to be bogus anyway. I > have one of the earlier freerunners released, so I'm sure Openmoko > owes an explanation. > The detailed explanation already document in wiki http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems Most A6 boards as I knew (some very early stage A6 might not have this rework) came with hardware add capacitor fix for changed factory test process (lower power on relayed factory GPS emitter, and also for better quality control). And, for software fix, as we tested in lab and community helped GPS verification. Software fix good as hardware in most user scenarios. Personally, I also using neo as biking computer without hardware fix, and performance is acceptable as hardware fixed device (40 seconds to 2 or 3 minutes). If you really un-comfortable with your current neo status, please go support.openmoko.com and create ticket for this issue, we could help you there. Thanks, - -- Neng-Yu Tu (Tony Tu) Openmoko, Inc. Support. Some questions could be answered by reference following link: Wiki - http://wiki.openmoko.org Download - http://downloads.openmoko.org Community - http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html Freerunner Introduction - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEUEARECAAYFAklF+EgACgkQmV6sZhhBn2+YYwCYyYRYsUR5C6qgfVYg7/1OiZ7P 4QCdGpz6WP+x5v5mD5qJLQlW90g6FyI= =FfG/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 5:35 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: There are still hardware problems that exist with almost every freerunner out there (GPS signal levels, for one). I would like to see them fixed by Openmoko, Inc. >> The kernel fix for GPS is a mere quirk. Ideally it should get fixed in >> hardware. > > Huh? The kernel fix seems to work OK for those people who have old > FRs. Newer FRs have a hardware fix. E.g. my FR doesn't need any > kernel workaround. No need to wait for GTA03 to get a hardware fix. So, this kernel fix is a feature, according to Al Johnson? Then why do they need a hardware fix? Unless I am missing something, this software fix seems to be a lie. Or the hardware fix seems to be bogus anyway. I have one of the earlier freerunners released, so I'm sure Openmoko owes an explanation. > > >Stefan > > > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: pointless ranting was: Re: Sad Story
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 5:08 PM, arne anka wrote: > by actually _READING_ mails for starters! > the misunderstanding with the term gta03 has been corrected several times > already! > if you refuse to check archives and to read mails and instead insist on > perpetuating your misstatement, nobody can help you! Then this link be updated. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA03 > your shouting at andy's because he refuses to accept your attitude (see > above) is absolutely not helping. If I point out flaws about the focus of Openmoko, then I'm shouting? If I offer suggestions on what objectives the team should be working towards that's the wrong attitude? If I feel Openmoko is heading toward the wrong path, I should just clam up and be a "team player?" Re-read my emails. They are a critique of how things could be better. It's clear, I am far from alone. I have yet to villainize anyone yet. Constructive criticism can only be constructive, if both sides are willing to allow for improvements. -- Paul Email - pault...@gmail.com There were moments when he looked on evil simply as a mode through which he could realize his conception of the beautiful. Oscar Wilde - The Picture of Dorian Gray ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
>>> There are still hardware problems that exist with almost every >>> freerunner out there (GPS signal levels, for one). I would like to >>> see them fixed by Openmoko, Inc. > The kernel fix for GPS is a mere quirk. Ideally it should get fixed in > hardware. Huh? The kernel fix seems to work OK for those people who have old FRs. Newer FRs have a hardware fix. E.g. my FR doesn't need any kernel workaround. No need to wait for GTA03 to get a hardware fix. Stefan ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Sunday 14 December 2008 15:40:58 arne anka wrote: ... > can't confirm that. the battery lasts as long as before -- about 48h, > maybe more (i never let it run down more than about 35% which is reached > after almost two days). I presume you're talking about a gta02, which has a bigger battery. My ?phone? is a gta01 and I've never had it last a whole day without recharging. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
2008/12/13 Bobby Martin : > As much as I hate to chime in on such a busy and unproductive thread... Yeah, the same here. > That's my whole reason for posting - to thank Andy, Harald, etc. etc. in the > OM group, Lorn, etc. of Trolltech, mwester, Julien, quickdev, MarcOChapeau, > etc. of the community. +1. And the recent work with kernel 2.6.28 with regards to putting development back to upstream and co-working seems fabulous. I do think the communication and the social aspects of Openmoko community should still be improved, and are partially responsible for the portion of owners feeling frustrated (though there is always some percentage in even a perfect community), but such stuff is almost impossible to discuss in this thread. Managing hardware and software is hard, but so is managing people. Actually, everything Openmoko does is very far from easy, but that's the way it has always been for pioneers :) 2008/12/13 Karthik Kumar : > The kernel fix for GPS is a mere quirk. Ideally it should get fixed in > hardware. Like mentioned, you're totally misinformed. The GPS is perfectly fine with the current sw fix, and it's not a quirk. I can imagine how some people might even mix the problems with fix time etc. with hw problems of GPS - it's just that AGPS is not set up out of the box, and neither is GPS state information storage/retrieval. Hardware-wise everything is anyway ok, and I use AGPS to get good fixes in 10-20s from turning the GPS on. -Timo ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
>> > 1. Recamping issue - http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1024. > >> does the relased firmware not apply? > openmoko10 (or whatever that firmware was called) hasn't fixed the issue > for me. seems, i confused the issues the fw should fix, not #1024 but #666. > And no, a software workaround which still drains the battery in less > than a day IMO is not enough. can't confirm that. the battery lasts as long as before -- about 48h, maybe more (i never let it run down more than about 35% which is reached after almost two days). >> > 3. A stable, FSO-based distribution > ... >> there was just recently a mail from om lining out the development in >> this >> respect. > I must have missed it. To find it, what should I be googling for ? well, mails wolfgang spraul of the last week, i think. should be in the thread about the disbanded optimization team. > On a related note, the latest FSO in debian (apt-get update; apt-get > upgrade > about an hour ago) never asks me for a PIN. Who should I report this to, > which logs should I attach? seems to be an issue for the smartphone lists, rather. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
polz writes: > openmoko10 (or whatever that firmware was called) hasn't fixed the issue for > me. And no, a software workaround which still drains the battery in less than > a day IMO is not enough. Have you actually measured that the workaround draws so much power? >> > 3. A stable, FSO-based distribution > ... >> there was just recently a mail from om lining out the development in this >> respect. > I must have missed it. To find it, what should I be googling for ? > On a related note, the latest FSO in debian (apt-get update; apt-get upgrade > about an hour ago) never asks me for a PIN. Who should I report this to, > which logs should I attach? 1) make sure frameworkd.conf has [ogsmd] # GTA02 has TI Calypso modemtype = ti_calypso ti_calypso_deep_sleep = never log_level = DEBUG 2) start frameworkd from terminal with something like script -c 'sudo frameworkd' frameworkd.log 3) start whatever phone program you use 4) send frameworkd.log to trac.freesmartphone.org in a bug report if it still does not ask for pin and report output of dpkg -l | grep fso dpkg -l zhone ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Sunday 14 December 2008, arne anka wrote: > > 1. Recamping issue - http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1024. > > I know it's hard and I presume people from TI aren't being helpful since > > solving this issue isn't going to be very profitable for them. Still, > > please, > > someone solve this! > > does the relased firmware not apply? The moko10 firmware was intended to fix #666 and appears to have been successful according to the majority of reports. It did not, and was not expected to, do anything about #1024. That is being worked on for the next firmware release. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Sunday 14 December 2008 01:12:53 arne anka wrote: > > 1. Recamping issue - http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1024. > does the relased firmware not apply? openmoko10 (or whatever that firmware was called) hasn't fixed the issue for me. And no, a software workaround which still drains the battery in less than a day IMO is not enough. > > 3. A stable, FSO-based distribution ... > there was just recently a mail from om lining out the development in this > respect. I must have missed it. To find it, what should I be googling for ? On a related note, the latest FSO in debian (apt-get update; apt-get upgrade about an hour ago) never asks me for a PIN. Who should I report this to, which logs should I attach? > they most likely won't -- nokia is afraid of "free" and "open". Let's hope so. It would really suck for Openmoko to start the revolution (although clumsily) and never reap any rewards. OTOH, us, the consumers, would be waaay better off if Nokia released an ueber-greenphone. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
> 1. Recamping issue - http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1024. > I know it's hard and I presume people from TI aren't being helpful since > solving this issue isn't going to be very profitable for them. Still, > please, > someone solve this! does the relased firmware not apply? > 3. A stable, FSO-based distribution (which can be built using the > aforementioned stable buildsystem). Someone (from Openmoko) should come > up > with a stable FSO snapshot and additional apps which would allow a user > to > call people, manage contacts (at least on the SIM) and > send/receive/delete > SMS. This distribution could then be used as a base for further > development. there was just recently a mail from om lining out the development in this respect. > P.S. I'm surprised Nokia hasn't released any competition to Openmoko. > Yet. they most likely won't -- nokia is afraid of "free" and "open". ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
polz writes: > 1. Recamping issue - http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1024. > I know it's hard and I presume people from TI aren't being helpful since > solving this issue isn't going to be very profitable for them. Still, please, > someone solve this! Isn't the software workaround enough to make the phone useful? > 2. A stable, easy-to-use build official system. > Setting up a development environment for Openmoko should be as easy as it is > to set up a build environment for openwrt. Until there's an official, always > working way to set up a build environment, application development isn't > going to take off. Seconded. I use debian since 'apt-get --build source foo' is guaranteed to build a package from source. With org.openmoko.asu.stable I get frequent build failures. Most frequent being http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2169 And yes, I prefer debian for many other things too (no non-free ringtones etc.) but I would at least do much more testing with the openmoko distro if I could compile it from source every time I needed to test it. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
As a slightly iritated gta01 owner I'd personally like Openmoko to fix the following bugs: 1. Recamping issue - http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1024. I know it's hard and I presume people from TI aren't being helpful since solving this issue isn't going to be very profitable for them. Still, please, someone solve this! 2. A stable, easy-to-use build official system. Setting up a development environment for Openmoko should be as easy as it is to set up a build environment for openwrt. Until there's an official, always working way to set up a build environment, application development isn't going to take off. 3. A stable, FSO-based distribution (which can be built using the aforementioned stable buildsystem). Someone (from Openmoko) should come up with a stable FSO snapshot and additional apps which would allow a user to call people, manage contacts (at least on the SIM) and send/receive/delete SMS. This distribution could then be used as a base for further development. Once all these issues are solved, I'll be able to recommend Openmoko phones to my friends, some of which are pretty smart and might even be inclined to develop useful applications for the phone. Until these issues are fixed, openmoko is never going to see the boom of nifty apps and enhancements I presume the company is betting on. P.S. I'm surprised Nokia hasn't released any competition to Openmoko. Yet. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Saturday 13 December 2008, Karthik Kumar wrote: > On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Stefan Monnier > > wrote: > >> There are still hardware problems that exist with almost every > >> freerunner out there (GPS signal levels, for one). I would like to > >> see them fixed by Openmoko, Inc. > > The kernel fix for GPS is a mere quirk. Ideally it should get fixed in > hardware. I am sure that Openmoko's GTA03 changes include a > replacement of the existing u-blox. Is Openmoko considering fixing the > GPS? You appear to be misinformed. The kernel fix enables the hardware SD drive strength control. This is _not_ a mere quirk - reducing EMI is one of the reasons hardware manufacturers include such a hardware feature. The early kernels had the drive strength hardcoded to the highest value which was higher than necessary in this hardware configuration, and caused interference problems. This was a software bug, and was fixed in later kernels by setting a lower default drive strength that is appropriate to the hardware implementation. This reduces EMI to the point that the ublox gps module performs to specification with the internal antenna even during writes to the SD, and generally outperforms my Garmin Geko 201. You may have been thinking of the earlier kernel fix which disabled the SD clock when it wasn't necessary, where previously it had been running continuously. This also reduced EMI when no data transfers were happening, but should be employed to reduce power consumption anyway. Both fixes are exposed as parameters in sysfs, so you can adjust the drive strength, and enable the clock permanently if you wish. There is a script in the wiki that will cycle through the possible settings recording TTFF so you can see the effects for yourself. Note that you need to disable any gps daemons before running it, and it will take a long time too run. When both are unassisted it also gets a fix faster and more reliably than a friend's N95. The N95 uses a different form of assistance, and when assisted it can get a fix faster than the GTA02, and in locations the GTA02 can't. I have yet to try the GTA02 assisted. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> There are still hardware problems that exist with almost every >> freerunner out there (GPS signal levels, for one). I would like to >> see them fixed by Openmoko, Inc. The kernel fix for GPS is a mere quirk. Ideally it should get fixed in hardware. I am sure that Openmoko's GTA03 changes include a replacement of the existing u-blox. Is Openmoko considering fixing the GPS? > > I don't know of any remaining problems there. I thought my FR was > taking a long time to get a fix, but all evidence seems to indicate that > it's just normal behavior shared by all GPS devices. > > >Stefan > > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > -- Karthik http://guilt.bafsoft.net ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
> There are still hardware problems that exist with almost every > freerunner out there (GPS signal levels, for one). I would like to > see them fixed by Openmoko, Inc. I don't know of any remaining problems there. I thought my FR was taking a long time to get a fix, but all evidence seems to indicate that it's just normal behavior shared by all GPS devices. Stefan ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Karthik Kumar wrote: > > There are still hardware problems that exist with almost every > freerunner out there (GPS signal levels, for one). I would like to see > them fixed by Openmoko, Inc. > I was quite frustrated with the GPS when I first got my FR, but honestly, ever since the long-ago patches to the kernel to turn off the SD clock when not doing IO to the SD card, it has been working quite well for me. I no longer notice a difference acquiring GPS fix between having SD card or not, and can get a fix quite reliably now. This is in New York City, with tall buildings. It is a bit slow to get a fix, slower for sure than my fiancee's iPhone, which gets assistance data. However, I have noticed some occasions where her phone took just as long to get a fix as mine (probably lack of assist data.) The one hardware issue I would REALLY like to see addressed is being able to charge the battery after it has been discharged. I am lucky I have a Nokia phone kicking around with a compatible battery that I can use to "jump start" my FR when needed. Not everybody does. I usually have luck booting into NOR u-boot to begin charging the battery, but this doesn't work every time, and is not a great solution. (Is there any chance some future update of the NAND u-boot will make this a thing of the past?) -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Sad-Story-tp1595419p1651767.html Sent from the Openmoko Support mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 4:13 AM, Bobby Martin wrote: > As much as I hate to chime in on such a busy and unproductive thread... > > When the GTA02 was sold, it was *for developers only*. It was very clear on > the site. The software is not done. It is not stable. (That said, there > are software versions that give you good, stable access to most or all of > the hardware for most people. They're just hard to find, and are different > for different HW releases.) > > If it turns out that the hardware can't work reasonably as a phone > regardless of software, then FR owners may have a legitimate grievance. (I > only have a GTA01). Until that time, you got what was advertised. Even if > my hardware can't work reasonably as a phone, I got what was advertised :-) > There are still hardware problems that exist with almost every freerunner out there (GPS signal levels, for one). I would like to see them fixed by Openmoko, Inc. > And remember, you people who rushed out to buy a phone because it was open, > even with no stable software - there are people who responded to > frustrations in the direction by fixing the things they didn't like. See > SHR, Debian, FDOM, etc. > > I grow frustrated with the directions OM takes and the priorities they have > sometimes, and I blow off steam in IRC. I try to do it when/where no OM > devs are hanging out, because I think they're doing a hard job and don't > have control of the things that frustrate me. Bitching to people about > things they're working on when they can't do anything about the stuff you're > griping about just lowers their morale, which is counterproductive. > I get that. At the same time, you realize that the frustration is totally vented towards Openmoko's management. Let me say this again: Do not hijack this thread towards open source, or productivity or whatever. > I really do think the OM devs are doing a good job on a task that is very > difficult, and they get a lot of grief for it. I just want to say thanks. > That's my whole reason for posting - to thank Andy, Harald, etc. etc. in the > OM group, Lorn, etc. of Trolltech, mwester, Julien, quickdev, MarcOChapeau, > etc. of the community. I apologize for all the big contributors I didn't > name. I appreciate your work just as much even if I may not remember your > name from IRC/ML :-) > > Great work guys, > Thanks! > Bobby > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
As much as I hate to chime in on such a busy and unproductive thread... When the GTA02 was sold, it was *for developers only*. It was very clear on the site. The software is not done. It is not stable. (That said, there are software versions that give you good, stable access to most or all of the hardware for most people. They're just hard to find, and are different for different HW releases.) If it turns out that the hardware can't work reasonably as a phone regardless of software, then FR owners may have a legitimate grievance. (I only have a GTA01). Until that time, you got what was advertised. Even if my hardware can't work reasonably as a phone, I got what was advertised :-) And remember, you people who rushed out to buy a phone because it was open, even with no stable software - there are people who responded to frustrations in the direction by fixing the things they didn't like. See SHR, Debian, FDOM, etc. I grow frustrated with the directions OM takes and the priorities they have sometimes, and I blow off steam in IRC. I try to do it when/where no OM devs are hanging out, because I think they're doing a hard job and don't have control of the things that frustrate me. Bitching to people about things they're working on when they can't do anything about the stuff you're griping about just lowers their morale, which is counterproductive. I really do think the OM devs are doing a good job on a task that is very difficult, and they get a lot of grief for it. I just want to say thanks. That's my whole reason for posting - to thank Andy, Harald, etc. etc. in the OM group, Lorn, etc. of Trolltech, mwester, Julien, quickdev, MarcOChapeau, etc. of the community. I apologize for all the big contributors I didn't name. I appreciate your work just as much even if I may not remember your name from IRC/ML :-) Great work guys, Thanks! Bobby ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
pointless ranting was: Re: Sad Story
> If its a misunderstanding of GTA03 referring to something else, fine, > I conceed. Honestly, how is anyone supposed to know that the gta03 is > a software stack that used for the GTA02 device? by actually _READING_ mails for starters! the misunderstanding with the term gta03 has been corrected several times already! if you refuse to check archives and to read mails and instead insist on perpetuating your misstatement, nobody can help you! >> Steve and Sean did this during the weekend... BTW, 100% of the >> profits will go towards our bounties for Free Software developers. > > This is all well and good. Let's focus first on creating a solid > infrastructure so free software can be run on this device, reliably. > We already have many people devoted to this project with the only > expected reward is accomplishments. Let's achieve. > > Then lets worry about T-Shirts and $15 mouse pads, my two cents. the cafepress store was openend after repeated request from teh community! if you would actually read mails and inform yourself before posting unfounded allegations, it would be far better for the community you're claiming to strengthen. your shouting at andy's because he refuses to accept your attitude (see above) is absolutely not helping. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:47:40 -0500, Paul wrote: > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:10 PM, Andy Green wrote: >> though so I think it's probably down to you to move a slider the once >> until you are happy, awful imposition as that is. > > If there is a slider, you should have told me. I thought it was a > process of sshing into the device guessing the volume to use in > gsmhandset.state file, restarting x, calling a couple of your pals > repeating the mantra of "Can you hear you now?" and repeat. :) > On a personal note, I am hard of hearing so turning the volume down > does resolve the echo issue, but in a noisy background situation (like > walking down the street) the phone is pretty useless. I have to agree with this one - I find the volume level to be barely acceptable in-call, though I know it can go higher. I refuse to use a wired handsfree, and the dog ate my bluetooth (seriously) so handset is it. To be "fair" however, I've been running SHR for some time, which bases phone support on frameworkd from FSO, so this isn't a commentary on OM in my case. (and insofar as 'solving problems' I've been familiarizing myself with libframeworkd-phonegui-efl with one of my goals being adding a volume slider to the SHR in-call controls) >> What's evident to me is there is a danger of so enjoying and wanting to >> prolong the "victim" status that opportunities to solve problems and >> move things forward are actively ignored. > > Let's separate the victim status from pointing out weaknesses of this > system. If someone says, hey, the stable 2008.8 repositories are > broken, does it mean that the communities is whining? Not at all, IMHO. But if you take that 'notice' of a repository being down and run it through the hyperbole amplifier and mix in a little 'woe is me' you get "openmoko.com is down, it's always down, nothing works, I was so cheated, I need a lawyer". THAT, IMHO, is whining. j -- Joel Newkirk http://jthinks.com (blog) http://newkirk.us/om (FR stuff) ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Wolfgang, On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 3:05 PM, Wolfgang Spraul wrote: > If you don't know you shouldn't pretend to know. > I applaud the brave investors we have, we have a long way to go to > make this an interesting investment for them, compared to many other > places they could put their money. Luckily there are many people that > enjoy this project so much and contribute that I am optimistic we can > show them the true power of our community, over time. Let's also applaud the consumers of the product that still, despite the many issues, are taking the time to contribute to the process. > I believe this was John. Taken out of context, and you are exploiting > slight weaknesses in his usage of English. Taken out of context? How? That was the first sentence of the section. If its a misunderstanding of GTA03 referring to something else, fine, I conceed. Honestly, how is anyone supposed to know that the gta03 is a software stack that used for the GTA02 device? Google GTA03 for any references to anything but hardware. > I regularly see John in the office until 2 or 3 AM, working for the > project he loves. He said 'more' focus, because although he spends > 100% of his time developing on gta02, he also wants to start learning > more about gta03 now, join some product meetings, etc. That's it. He > continues to work on gta02 full time. He should feel assured that the community stays up with him working to 2-3 am in the morning after their regular jobs. I do. I am trying to address the focus of the project. I am willing to assert that EVERYONE is working hard. We just need to work smarter, with a unified vision. We need transparent documentation of the hardware (all the variants) so the community can contribute. At the request of the developers to test out the testing version, I did reflash my device MANY times, and hit walls. When asking for advice and help to resolve them, I received helpful tidbits such as, your subject line is wrong. > Steve and Sean did this during the weekend... BTW, 100% of the > profits will go towards our bounties for Free Software developers. This is all well and good. Let's focus first on creating a solid infrastructure so free software can be run on this device, reliably. We already have many people devoted to this project with the only expected reward is accomplishments. Let's achieve. Then lets worry about T-Shirts and $15 mouse pads, my two cents. -- Paul Email - pault...@gmail.com There were moments when he looked on evil simply as a mode through which he could realize his conception of the beautiful. Oscar Wilde - The Picture of Dorian Gray ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:10 PM, Andy Green wrote: > though so I think it's probably down to you to move a slider the once > until you are happy, awful imposition as that is. If there is a slider, you should have told me. I thought it was a process of sshing into the device guessing the volume to use in gsmhandset.state file, restarting x, calling a couple of your pals repeating the mantra of "Can you hear you now?" and repeat. On a personal note, I am hard of hearing so turning the volume down does resolve the echo issue, but in a noisy background situation (like walking down the street) the phone is pretty useless. > As John Lee explained, and I knew to be so before he told from other > readings anyway, this is a problem with nomenclature. He does not > actually mean GTA03 hardware here but stuff that will apply to GTA02 > along the lines GTA02 rootfs today applies to GTA01. Fair enough, misunderstandings happen all the time. > What's evident to me is there is a danger of so enjoying and wanting to > prolong the "victim" status that opportunities to solve problems and > move things forward are actively ignored. Let's separate the victim status from pointing out weaknesses of this system. If someone says, hey, the stable 2008.8 repositories are broken, does it mean that the communities is whining? If something is broken, it should be resolved and researched so it doesn't happen again. -- Paul Email - pault...@gmail.com There were moments when he looked on evil simply as a mode through which he could realize his conception of the beautiful. Oscar Wilde - The Picture of Dorian Gray ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Here is a suggestion: If the GPS hardwarer in GTA02 is wrong, would Openmoko consider fixing it for all those who purchased Openmoko? They should ship back the Freerunner, fix it and send it back to all owners. And, (P.S. arne akka) here is a PDF which tells us about some different better GPS hardware in GTA03: http://downloads.openmoko.org/foresight/Test_Report/GTA03_GPS_Conductive_Single_Channel_Test.pdf I would like Openmoko to fix this one hardware issue in GTA02 (How you work it out, I will leave it to you). It could do the same for some GTA01 owners with problems as well. On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 1:43 AM, Wolfgang Spraul wrote: > Karthik, > >> this. I am sure that a developer who talks back against this will just >> get fired/have to face bad consequences. > > Honestly, together with pretty much everything else you say, it's wrong. > In fact internally I am known as the one who kicks people if they > don't post publicly :-) > Your problem is that pretty much everybody already does what you > think they should do, so no matter how long you wait, you won't see > the kind of complaint like "bad management forces us to work on next- > gen product to rip off community". > > GTA01, GTA02 and GTA03 are very close, basically one platform. The > few people who work on gta03 hardware (2 to be precise) implicitly > contribute to the whole platform. The vast majority works on gta02 > and gta01. Actually I am thinking about trying to buy some gta01 back > from the community. They are quite legendary and we have too few > internally. 2 in Taipei, for example. We wish we could do more > testing & bug-fixing on gta01. It's the same platform anyway, and in > addition we can support our customers. > >> What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the management to >> change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? > > Show me opportunities. Management needs to direct the company towards > opportunities. > > Best Regards, > Wolfgang > > On 2008-12-13, at 上午2:54, Karthik Kumar wrote: > >> I clearly don't blame the developers here myself. I blame Openmoko's >> selfish management (probably it's board of directors or C*Os) for >> this. I am sure that a developer who talks back against this will just >> get fired/have to face bad consequences. >> >> What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the management to >> change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? >> >> -Karthik >> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Paul wrote: >>> My experience, as I'm sure with many other people, with my freerunner >>> has been frustrating most of the time. To say, its all on the >>> user is >>> wrong. Granted the community could be better, however, its hard to >>> contribute when everything is so fragmented. >>> >>> For instance, about the echo problem, one of the developers for >>> OpenMoko stated "Since there are different hw versions out there (a5, >>> a6, a7), it's impossible to provide one alsa state file that suits >>> all >>> models." Wait a sec. If the developers know the issues, What's >>> preventing the if statement that would prevent hundreds of hours of >>> tweaking, testing, and frustration for the community? >>> >>> Let's be honest here FIC is making a pretty penny off of OpenMoko, >>> using very old hardware selling at a premium price (2.5g not even >>> EDGE). Yet we are OK with that. What the community DOES expect is >>> basic support, for starters a phone that makes calls without echoing, >>> doesn't drop connection and sends and receives text messages reliably >>> as the Number 1 priority. If I'm not mistaken, the majority of the >>> working code in OpenMoko is from Trolltech. In addition FSO has a >>> very nice distro and the Freerunner isn't even its main device. Yet >>> more than 1 year AFTER the release of the 1974, we still have MAJOR >>> issues from a basic install of Om. Then we read stuff like this. >>> >>> "OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for >>> qtopia is fairly limited." >>> >>> It becomes evident that FIC and Openmoko cares less about creating >>> reliably working software then it does about moving products. (not >>> blaming the developers here, they get pressure) Follow the next link >>> and I think I've made my case. >>> >>> http://www.cafepress.com/openmoko_inc >>> >>> Now with that said, I will be posting online my howtos including >>> scripts to make a kinda stable variant of FDOM soon. Been too busy >>> reflashing my phone. >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Karthik Kumar >>> wrote: You should have fixed the GTA02 months back, when you released it. Instead, you people are working on GTA03/Neo Whatever. It proves that you don't care about the community, You just care about the bunch of people who might want to buy your upcoming phones, who sponsor your own selfish causes and suffer while you are working on GTA04. >>> >>> -- >>> Paul >>> Email - pault...@gmail.com >>> >>> There were moments when he l
Re: Sad Story
Wolfgang, thanks for an actual credible, thoughtful response... Andy, do you actually work for openmoko? If you do, that is a very scary thought that someone from openmoko would be shooting their mouth off and disrespecting concerned members of the openmoko community, who are expressing valid frustrations... On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Wolfgang Spraul wrote: > Karthik, > > > this. I am sure that a developer who talks back against this will just > > get fired/have to face bad consequences. > > Honestly, together with pretty much everything else you say, it's wrong. > In fact internally I am known as the one who kicks people if they > don't post publicly :-) > Your problem is that pretty much everybody already does what you > think they should do, so no matter how long you wait, you won't see > the kind of complaint like "bad management forces us to work on next- > gen product to rip off community". > > GTA01, GTA02 and GTA03 are very close, basically one platform. The > few people who work on gta03 hardware (2 to be precise) implicitly > contribute to the whole platform. The vast majority works on gta02 > and gta01. Actually I am thinking about trying to buy some gta01 back > from the community. They are quite legendary and we have too few > internally. 2 in Taipei, for example. We wish we could do more > testing & bug-fixing on gta01. It's the same platform anyway, and in > addition we can support our customers. > > > What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the management to > > change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? > > Show me opportunities. Management needs to direct the company towards > opportunities. > > Best Regards, > Wolfgang > > On 2008-12-13, at 上午2:54, Karthik Kumar wrote: > > > I clearly don't blame the developers here myself. I blame Openmoko's > > selfish management (probably it's board of directors or C*Os) for > > this. I am sure that a developer who talks back against this will just > > get fired/have to face bad consequences. > > > > What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the management to > > change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? > > > > -Karthik > > > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Paul wrote: > >> My experience, as I'm sure with many other people, with my freerunner > >> has been frustrating most of the time. To say, its all on the > >> user is > >> wrong. Granted the community could be better, however, its hard to > >> contribute when everything is so fragmented. > >> > >> For instance, about the echo problem, one of the developers for > >> OpenMoko stated "Since there are different hw versions out there (a5, > >> a6, a7), it's impossible to provide one alsa state file that suits > >> all > >> models." Wait a sec. If the developers know the issues, What's > >> preventing the if statement that would prevent hundreds of hours of > >> tweaking, testing, and frustration for the community? > >> > >> Let's be honest here FIC is making a pretty penny off of OpenMoko, > >> using very old hardware selling at a premium price (2.5g not even > >> EDGE). Yet we are OK with that. What the community DOES expect is > >> basic support, for starters a phone that makes calls without echoing, > >> doesn't drop connection and sends and receives text messages reliably > >> as the Number 1 priority. If I'm not mistaken, the majority of the > >> working code in OpenMoko is from Trolltech. In addition FSO has a > >> very nice distro and the Freerunner isn't even its main device. Yet > >> more than 1 year AFTER the release of the 1974, we still have MAJOR > >> issues from a basic install of Om. Then we read stuff like this. > >> > >> "OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for > >> qtopia is fairly limited." > >> > >> It becomes evident that FIC and Openmoko cares less about creating > >> reliably working software then it does about moving products. (not > >> blaming the developers here, they get pressure) Follow the next link > >> and I think I've made my case. > >> > >> http://www.cafepress.com/openmoko_inc > >> > >> Now with that said, I will be posting online my howtos including > >> scripts to make a kinda stable variant of FDOM soon. Been too busy > >> reflashing my phone. > >> > >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Karthik Kumar > >> wrote: > >>> You should have fixed the GTA02 months back, when you released it. > >>> Instead, you people are working on GTA03/Neo Whatever. It proves > >>> that > >>> you don't care about the community, You just care about the bunch of > >>> people who might want to buy your upcoming phones, who sponsor > >>> your own > >>> selfish causes and suffer while you are working on GTA04. > >> > >> -- > >> Paul > >> Email - pault...@gmail.com > >> > >> There were moments when he looked on evil simply as a mode through > >> which he could realize his conception of the beautiful. > >> Oscar Wilde - The Picture of Dorian Gray > >> > >> ___ > >>
Re: Sad Story
Sargun, thanks, agree with you. > I want someone from FR (steve mosher? sean moss?) to post updates and > a timeline. I want them to say when things will be fixed, what exact > developments are going on at OM, etc... This has to be on a regular > basis. They -need- a blog or a similar method to publish this. At > least it would give us some small bit of confidence that our devices > are being worked on. Right now the only development I see is: > -mickey on FSO, he publishes a lot data, wwe can get ahold of him > -some minor work on the kernel. I used to publish weekly engineering news, but the last months saw so many changes that I got overwhelmed, didn't know how to put things in context appropriately. I hope this settles down soon and I can resume the news. Rest assured that there is _TONS_ of activity in Taipei and worldwide. I wrote about our software strategy briefly only a few days ago: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-December/037352.html > -some minor work on the kernel. Huh? That must be the under-statement of the year. kernel progress has been phantastic recently. Andy's team, Balaji, Nelson, Sean, Werner, all have been doing great work on the .28 kernel. Actually it's possible this might be one of the best Linux kernels on any mobile device in the world, in terms of 100% openness, and how close it is to mainline. Hopefully this new kernel will soon make it's way into the FSO and other releases. Wolfgang On 2008-12-13, at 上午3:23, Sargun Dhillon wrote: > Ah! legal recourse is certainly not the right path! > > I have long stayed out of this discussion as it's mostly been trolling > about OpenMoko, but to be honest making a phone is hard... > I've personally worked on projects involving building consumer > electronics devices. We had far less success compared to the OM > project, and there were signifcantly more people on the team. > > In my opinion what Openmoko needs to do is release a solid hardware > platform, until this happens software development will be delayed. If > that means concentrating on the v03, then do it. From what I see the > v03 looks like the v02, with a different SoC and minus the smedia > (glamo) controller. > > What I was hoping from the v03 was a new SoC, modem, and sound card. > More time is being spent on miniaturization. This is not the community > that cares about how the phone looks. > > Additionally, don't wait another 8 months before selling v03s, we want > it soon, or fix the v02. > > Regarding what OM has done right: > They released an awesome development platform for the gsm networks. > > What I want from FR now: > I want someone from FR (steve mosher? sean moss?) to post updates and > a timeline. I want them to say when things will be fixed, what exact > developments are going on at OM, etc... This has to be on a regular > basis. They -need- a blog or a similar method to publish this. At > least it would give us some small bit of confidence that our devices > are being worked on. Right now the only development I see is: > -mickey on FSO, he publishes a lot data, wwe can get ahold of him > -some minor work on the kernel. > > Get steve mosher (pr) somewhere available. we want transparency.. > > > On 12/12/08, Karthik Kumar wrote: >> I clearly don't blame the developers here myself. I blame Openmoko's >> selfish management (probably it's board of directors or C*Os) for >> this. I am sure that a developer who talks back against this will >> just >> get fired/have to face bad consequences. >> >> What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the >> management to >> change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? >> >> >> -Karthik >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Paul wrote: >>> My experience, as I'm sure with many other people, with my >>> freerunner >>> has been frustrating most of the time. To say, its all on the >>> user is >>> wrong. Granted the community could be better, however, its hard to >>> contribute when everything is so fragmented. >>> >>> For instance, about the echo problem, one of the developers for >>> OpenMoko stated "Since there are different hw versions out there >>> (a5, >>> a6, a7), it's impossible to provide one alsa state file that >>> suits all >>> models." Wait a sec. If the developers know the issues, What's >>> preventing the if statement that would prevent hundreds of hours of >>> tweaking, testing, and frustration for the community? >>> >>> Let's be honest here FIC is making a pretty penny off of OpenMoko, >>> using very old hardware selling at a premium price (2.5g not even >>> EDGE). Yet we are OK with that. What the community DOES expect is >>> basic support, for starters a phone that makes calls without >>> echoing, >>> doesn't drop connection and sends and receives text messages >>> reliably >>> as the Number 1 priority. If I'm not mistaken, the majority of the >>> working code in OpenMoko is from Trolltech. In addition FSO has a >>> very nic
Re: Sad Story
Wolfgang Spraul wrote: > Actually I am thinking about trying to buy some gta01 back > from the community. They are quite legendary and we have too few > internally. 2 in Taipei, for example. We wish we could do more > testing & bug-fixing on gta01. It's the same platform anyway, and in > addition we can support our customers. > What about the idea of offering a "trade-up" where people holding the 01s could tender them, and a few $$, for a fresher model? I have a GTA01 and it is a bit frustrating to be on the periphery of the development effort. But until I feel assured that the "GSM buzz" situation is rectified I've been hesitant to get an 02. I don't follow this list completely closely, so I hope I'm not out of line in my opinion that the 01 isn't really on the radar anymore in terms of development. Thanks. b. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Karthik, > this. I am sure that a developer who talks back against this will just > get fired/have to face bad consequences. Honestly, together with pretty much everything else you say, it's wrong. In fact internally I am known as the one who kicks people if they don't post publicly :-) Your problem is that pretty much everybody already does what you think they should do, so no matter how long you wait, you won't see the kind of complaint like "bad management forces us to work on next- gen product to rip off community". GTA01, GTA02 and GTA03 are very close, basically one platform. The few people who work on gta03 hardware (2 to be precise) implicitly contribute to the whole platform. The vast majority works on gta02 and gta01. Actually I am thinking about trying to buy some gta01 back from the community. They are quite legendary and we have too few internally. 2 in Taipei, for example. We wish we could do more testing & bug-fixing on gta01. It's the same platform anyway, and in addition we can support our customers. > What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the management to > change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? Show me opportunities. Management needs to direct the company towards opportunities. Best Regards, Wolfgang On 2008-12-13, at 上午2:54, Karthik Kumar wrote: > I clearly don't blame the developers here myself. I blame Openmoko's > selfish management (probably it's board of directors or C*Os) for > this. I am sure that a developer who talks back against this will just > get fired/have to face bad consequences. > > What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the management to > change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? > > -Karthik > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Paul wrote: >> My experience, as I'm sure with many other people, with my freerunner >> has been frustrating most of the time. To say, its all on the >> user is >> wrong. Granted the community could be better, however, its hard to >> contribute when everything is so fragmented. >> >> For instance, about the echo problem, one of the developers for >> OpenMoko stated "Since there are different hw versions out there (a5, >> a6, a7), it's impossible to provide one alsa state file that suits >> all >> models." Wait a sec. If the developers know the issues, What's >> preventing the if statement that would prevent hundreds of hours of >> tweaking, testing, and frustration for the community? >> >> Let's be honest here FIC is making a pretty penny off of OpenMoko, >> using very old hardware selling at a premium price (2.5g not even >> EDGE). Yet we are OK with that. What the community DOES expect is >> basic support, for starters a phone that makes calls without echoing, >> doesn't drop connection and sends and receives text messages reliably >> as the Number 1 priority. If I'm not mistaken, the majority of the >> working code in OpenMoko is from Trolltech. In addition FSO has a >> very nice distro and the Freerunner isn't even its main device. Yet >> more than 1 year AFTER the release of the 1974, we still have MAJOR >> issues from a basic install of Om. Then we read stuff like this. >> >> "OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for >> qtopia is fairly limited." >> >> It becomes evident that FIC and Openmoko cares less about creating >> reliably working software then it does about moving products. (not >> blaming the developers here, they get pressure) Follow the next link >> and I think I've made my case. >> >> http://www.cafepress.com/openmoko_inc >> >> Now with that said, I will be posting online my howtos including >> scripts to make a kinda stable variant of FDOM soon. Been too busy >> reflashing my phone. >> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Karthik Kumar >> wrote: >>> You should have fixed the GTA02 months back, when you released it. >>> Instead, you people are working on GTA03/Neo Whatever. It proves >>> that >>> you don't care about the community, You just care about the bunch of >>> people who might want to buy your upcoming phones, who sponsor >>> your own >>> selfish causes and suffer while you are working on GTA04. >> >> -- >> Paul >> Email - pault...@gmail.com >> >> There were moments when he looked on evil simply as a mode through >> which he could realize his conception of the beautiful. >> Oscar Wilde - The Picture of Dorian Gray >> >> ___ >> support mailing list >> support@lists.openmoko.org >> https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support >> > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | A quick thought...if Openmoko feels the hardware of GTA02 is inadequate | to even bother making it a stable phone, should there not be some sort | of recall and free replacement with a GTA03. Yes. That thought is still just as pointless a waste of time as the first time you posted it 47 minutes before on the support mailing list. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklCxFwACgkQOjLpvpq7dMqHQgCfSwVz4ocy8biTpwOHOyJC6+tC db4AnjmtIRX7/fE2NJWOUJMGh3q3g1kc =NDKB -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 1:31 AM, Marcus Stong wrote: > A quick thought...if Openmoko feels the hardware of GTA02 is inadequate to > even bother making it a stable phone, should there not be some sort of > recall and free replacement with a GTA03. > $399 for a phone that never worked properly is pretty hard to swallow, and > even harder to swallow when the company expects people to buy a new phone > while somewhat ignoring that same community of users who have invested time > and money in developing and testing their original phones. Speaking from the > perspective of a web developer, if I make a piece of shit site that doesn't > work properly, my clients are going to demand that it works properly. If I > neglect to do that and move on to the next project, I would run out of > clients pretty fast... Sounds good to me. I'm happy if it works. > > - Marcus > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > > -- Karthik http://guilt.bafsoft.net ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Paul, > Let's be honest here FIC is making a pretty penny off of OpenMoko, > using very old hardware selling at a premium price (2.5g not even > EDGE). Yet we are OK with that. If you don't know you shouldn't pretend to know. I applaud the brave investors we have, we have a long way to go to make this an interesting investment for them, compared to many other places they could put their money. Luckily there are many people that enjoy this project so much and contribute that I am optimistic we can show them the true power of our community, over time. > "OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for > qtopia is fairly limited." I believe this was John. Taken out of context, and you are exploiting slight weaknesses in his usage of English. I regularly see John in the office until 2 or 3 AM, working for the project he loves. He said 'more' focus, because although he spends 100% of his time developing on gta02, he also wants to start learning more about gta03 now, join some product meetings, etc. That's it. He continues to work on gta02 full time. > and I think I've made my case. > http://www.cafepress.com/openmoko_inc Steve and Sean did this during the weekend... BTW, 100% of the profits will go towards our bounties for Free Software developers. Wolfgang On 2008-12-13, at 上午1:53, Paul wrote: > My experience, as I'm sure with many other people, with my freerunner > has been frustrating most of the time. To say, its all on the user is > wrong. Granted the community could be better, however, its hard to > contribute when everything is so fragmented. > > For instance, about the echo problem, one of the developers for > OpenMoko stated "Since there are different hw versions out there (a5, > a6, a7), it's impossible to provide one alsa state file that suits all > models." Wait a sec. If the developers know the issues, What's > preventing the if statement that would prevent hundreds of hours of > tweaking, testing, and frustration for the community? > > Let's be honest here FIC is making a pretty penny off of OpenMoko, > using very old hardware selling at a premium price (2.5g not even > EDGE). Yet we are OK with that. What the community DOES expect is > basic support, for starters a phone that makes calls without echoing, > doesn't drop connection and sends and receives text messages reliably > as the Number 1 priority. If I'm not mistaken, the majority of the > working code in OpenMoko is from Trolltech. In addition FSO has a > very nice distro and the Freerunner isn't even its main device. Yet > more than 1 year AFTER the release of the 1974, we still have MAJOR > issues from a basic install of Om. Then we read stuff like this. > > "OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for > qtopia is fairly limited." > > It becomes evident that FIC and Openmoko cares less about creating > reliably working software then it does about moving products. (not > blaming the developers here, they get pressure) Follow the next link > and I think I've made my case. > > http://www.cafepress.com/openmoko_inc > > Now with that said, I will be posting online my howtos including > scripts to make a kinda stable variant of FDOM soon. Been too busy > reflashing my phone. > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Karthik Kumar > wrote: >> You should have fixed the GTA02 months back, when you released it. >> Instead, you people are working on GTA03/Neo Whatever. It proves that >> you don't care about the community, You just care about the bunch of >> people who might want to buy your upcoming phones, who sponsor >> your own >> selfish causes and suffer while you are working on GTA04. > > -- > Paul > Email - pault...@gmail.com > > There were moments when he looked on evil simply as a mode through > which he could realize his conception of the beautiful. > Oscar Wilde - The Picture of Dorian Gray > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
> A quick thought...if Openmoko feels the hardware of GTA02 is inadequate > to > even bother making it a stable phone, should there not be some sort of what is so hard in actually reading answers instead of repeating the same wrong statement over an dover? it has been stated several times already that the "gta03" you constantly keep refering to, does _NOT_ mean the actual gta03 _HARDWARE_? please, do us all a favour and check the answers in this thread and the mail of john's before beating that death horse again ... ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
A quick thought...if Openmoko feels the hardware of GTA02 is inadequate to even bother making it a stable phone, should there not be some sort of recall and free replacement with a GTA03. $399 for a phone that never worked properly is pretty hard to swallow, and even harder to swallow when the company expects people to buy a new phone while somewhat ignoring that same community of users who have invested time and money in developing and testing their original phones. Speaking from the perspective of a web developer, if I make a piece of shit site that doesn't work properly, my clients are going to demand that it works properly. If I neglect to do that and move on to the next project, I would run out of clients pretty fast... - Marcus ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 1:15 AM, john wrote: > 2008/12/12 Karthik Kumar : >> I will say this: Open source is philanthrophy. Making money is >> alright. Using Open source to make money is acceptable. >> >> You see those EeePcs? It's Open source, people get what they pay for - >> hardware and software. >> >> > > You see that door? Close it on the way out ;) > > Seriously though this is getting a bit tedious now. Why didn't you do > some more research before spending your money? There are many people > on IRC who would have given you honest advice. Do you believe all > marketing that you read? I personally did not buy a GTA02 as I have a > GTA01 and I am waiting for a suitable replacement. That might be > GTA03, GTA04 or even GTA05 who knows. It does take time to get things > right in the mobile world. You are just lucky/unlucky to have had so > much information about the process. As others have said there are > plenty of "shiny" alternatives out there. I can understand your > frustration but I think you are overreacting somewhat. We all make > mistakes (said the dalek getting off the dustbin). Let's all just kiss > and make up! > Well. You learnt your lessons with the 01. I, with the 02. I don't know, but I will want nobody to face this harshness when they will buy the 03. See, although nobody is perfect, people should try to correct your mistakes. Else, they are just going on the wrong path. Openmoko didn't learn from it's mistakes in 01. It isn't going to learn by just selling 02, 03 and so on. If it fixes it's 01 and 02, then people like you and me can be happier. If the entire 01 was a design mistake, then they clearly didn't sell you a phone at all. They sold you a phony. It's time you asked them for a fix. The only way to make it learn is to make it stop, fix all the things they have done till now. Else, there are going to be more people cribbing like this one year later. Watch out for my prediction. And, the only way to prevent it is if Openmoko did something about that RIGHT NOW. My $0.02. > John. > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > -- Karthik ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | I'm done talking to you, Andy. If you have anything to say that isn't | Openmoko's selfishness, I'm going to listen to you. Fine: please post back on the support list when you have some specific support issues you want to resolve, rather than stroke your ego. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklCwJgACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoSfgCeIfV2LIAr7PID/SHPkYZH2Jqo VokAn1nvzwVdeq70lRYTanffzio+BflY =AWKS -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
2008/12/12 Karthik Kumar : > I will say this: Open source is philanthrophy. Making money is > alright. Using Open source to make money is acceptable. > > You see those EeePcs? It's Open source, people get what they pay for - > hardware and software. > > You see that door? Close it on the way out ;) Seriously though this is getting a bit tedious now. Why didn't you do some more research before spending your money? There are many people on IRC who would have given you honest advice. Do you believe all marketing that you read? I personally did not buy a GTA02 as I have a GTA01 and I am waiting for a suitable replacement. That might be GTA03, GTA04 or even GTA05 who knows. It does take time to get things right in the mobile world. You are just lucky/unlucky to have had so much information about the process. As others have said there are plenty of "shiny" alternatives out there. I can understand your frustration but I think you are overreacting somewhat. We all make mistakes (said the dalek getting off the dustbin). Let's all just kiss and make up! John. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 1:01 AM, Andy Green wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Somebody in the thread at some point said: > | The website of Openmoko's launch will tell you when the Openmoko > | Freerunner was released. > | My bills will tell you when I have purchased the Freerunner. > | My Freerunner is available to prove the bugs in it. > | As for the list of Bugs, I'll just take the list from the Trac you > | have set up, with details of when 'each and every bug' was filed and > | resolved/never resolved. > | > | And, I have YOUR statement which proves that till date, many of those > | issues still exist. > > Did someone from Openmoko tell you that GTA02 (unlike Windows, Mozilla, > $EVERYTHING_NONTRIVIAL) will have no bugs? > You're talking of the case where everything that doesn't work is a bug. But that everything that works in Openmoko doesn't constitute what a 'Phone' is. Hence, either you've sold a bug, or you've sold something that isn't a Phone. Didn't someone from Openmoko say that it's a phone? Oh, by the way, wasn't there a legal document that said that if you were to buy it and it had bugs, you wouldn't sue because you are doing so at your own risk? I think not. And, do you think that people get off the hook for shipping products with major bugs? (If you recall Intel's processor bug or nVIDIA's heating problem, it should prove you otherwise) I'm done talking to you, Andy. If you have anything to say that isn't Openmoko's selfishness, I'm going to listen to you. > | | What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the management to > | | change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? > > | Do you want more proof? Do you want more legal documents? Is this how > | you see this conversation heading to? > > Yeah some guy mentioned a lawyer? Oh: you. > > - -Andy -- Karthik ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | The website of Openmoko's launch will tell you when the Openmoko | Freerunner was released. | My bills will tell you when I have purchased the Freerunner. | My Freerunner is available to prove the bugs in it. | As for the list of Bugs, I'll just take the list from the Trac you | have set up, with details of when 'each and every bug' was filed and | resolved/never resolved. | | And, I have YOUR statement which proves that till date, many of those | issues still exist. Did someone from Openmoko tell you that GTA02 (unlike Windows, Mozilla, $EVERYTHING_NONTRIVIAL) will have no bugs? | | What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the management to | | change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? | Do you want more proof? Do you want more legal documents? Is this how | you see this conversation heading to? Yeah some guy mentioned a lawyer? Oh: you. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEUEARECAAYFAklCu/0ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpIFACeJfstMwX1cIaJx5vMxVvmfk0V UmEAl17Z8/DccphXNamTkfoiXLpyJ/c= =jW0L -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
> In my opinion what Openmoko needs to do is release a solid hardware > platform, until this happens software development will be delayed. If > that means concentrating on the v03, then do it. From what I see the > v03 looks like the v02, with a different SoC and minus the smedia > (glamo) controller. (I agree with your comment below) See, then it means all those who bought the 02 (perhaps the 01) are stuck with lemons. I'd rather appreciate it if Openmoko used our money to fix our own Openmoko 02s to something more reliable (02.5, perhaps). That is when I will trust Openmoko to buy/recommend a 03 at all. Now, If the 03 turns out to be another lemon, why would I expect a 04 to fix it when I very well know that they didn't fix 02? > > What I was hoping from the v03 was a new SoC, modem, and sound card. > More time is being spent on miniaturization. This is not the community > that cares about how the phone looks. > > Additionally, don't wait another 8 months before selling v03s, we want > it soon, or fix the v02. That is well said, I agree. > > Regarding what OM has done right: > They released an awesome development platform for the gsm networks. > > What I want from FR now: > I want someone from FR (steve mosher? sean moss?) to post updates and > a timeline. I want them to say when things will be fixed, what exact > developments are going on at OM, etc... This has to be on a regular > basis. They -need- a blog or a similar method to publish this. At > least it would give us some small bit of confidence that our devices > are being worked on. Right now the only development I see is: > -mickey on FSO, he publishes a lot data, wwe can get ahold of him > -some minor work on the kernel. > > Get steve mosher (pr) somewhere available. we want transparency.. > I'd like this to happen personally. > > On 12/12/08, Karthik Kumar wrote: >> I clearly don't blame the developers here myself. I blame Openmoko's >> selfish management (probably it's board of directors or C*Os) for >> this. I am sure that a developer who talks back against this will just >> get fired/have to face bad consequences. >> >> What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the management to >> change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? >> >> >> -Karthik >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Paul wrote: >> > My experience, as I'm sure with many other people, with my freerunner >> > has been frustrating most of the time. To say, its all on the user is >> > wrong. Granted the community could be better, however, its hard to >> > contribute when everything is so fragmented. >> > >> > For instance, about the echo problem, one of the developers for >> > OpenMoko stated "Since there are different hw versions out there (a5, >> > a6, a7), it's impossible to provide one alsa state file that suits all >> > models." Wait a sec. If the developers know the issues, What's >> > preventing the if statement that would prevent hundreds of hours of >> > tweaking, testing, and frustration for the community? >> > >> > Let's be honest here FIC is making a pretty penny off of OpenMoko, >> > using very old hardware selling at a premium price (2.5g not even >> > EDGE). Yet we are OK with that. What the community DOES expect is >> > basic support, for starters a phone that makes calls without echoing, >> > doesn't drop connection and sends and receives text messages reliably >> > as the Number 1 priority. If I'm not mistaken, the majority of the >> > working code in OpenMoko is from Trolltech. In addition FSO has a >> > very nice distro and the Freerunner isn't even its main device. Yet >> > more than 1 year AFTER the release of the 1974, we still have MAJOR >> > issues from a basic install of Om. Then we read stuff like this. >> > >> > "OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for >> > qtopia is fairly limited." >> > >> > It becomes evident that FIC and Openmoko cares less about creating >> > reliably working software then it does about moving products. (not >> > blaming the developers here, they get pressure) Follow the next link >> > and I think I've made my case. >> > >> > http://www.cafepress.com/openmoko_inc >> > >> > Now with that said, I will be posting online my howtos including >> > scripts to make a kinda stable variant of FDOM soon. Been too busy >> > reflashing my phone. >> > >> > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Karthik Kumar >> wrote: >> >> You should have fixed the GTA02 months back, when you released it. >> >> Instead, you people are working on GTA03/Neo Whatever. It proves that >> >> you don't care about the community, You just care about the bunch of >> >> people who might want to buy your upcoming phones, who sponsor your own >> >> selfish causes and suffer while you are working on GTA04. >> > >> > -- >> > Paul >> > Email - pault...@gmail.com >> > >> > There were moments when he looked on evil simply as a mode through >> > which he could real
Re: Sad Story
The website of Openmoko's launch will tell you when the Openmoko Freerunner was released. My bills will tell you when I have purchased the Freerunner. My Freerunner is available to prove the bugs in it. As for the list of Bugs, I'll just take the list from the Trac you have set up, with details of when 'each and every bug' was filed and resolved/never resolved. And, I have YOUR statement which proves that till date, many of those issues still exist. Do you want more proof? Do you want more legal documents? Is this how you see this conversation heading to? On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 12:44 AM, Andy Green wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Somebody in the thread at some point said: > > | I clearly don't blame the developers here myself. I blame Openmoko's > | selfish management (probably it's board of directors or C*Os) for > | this. I am sure that a developer who talks back against this will just > | get fired/have to face bad consequences. > | > | What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the management to > | change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? > > You should first form a list of what issues you have that can be fixed. > ~ You'll need it for your lawyer, right? > > By an amazing coincidence, that list of actual issues is what the > support mailing list is for. > > - -Andy > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAklCuC8ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpp/wCePEA7pXlQ1xIuMRm2aMVza6c5 > 4WkAmQHCXELZ+FcHULksEI8NY8PB0raM > =4gJf > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > -- Karthik http://guilt.bafsoft.net ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Ah! legal recourse is certainly not the right path! I have long stayed out of this discussion as it's mostly been trolling about OpenMoko, but to be honest making a phone is hard... I've personally worked on projects involving building consumer electronics devices. We had far less success compared to the OM project, and there were signifcantly more people on the team. In my opinion what Openmoko needs to do is release a solid hardware platform, until this happens software development will be delayed. If that means concentrating on the v03, then do it. From what I see the v03 looks like the v02, with a different SoC and minus the smedia (glamo) controller. What I was hoping from the v03 was a new SoC, modem, and sound card. More time is being spent on miniaturization. This is not the community that cares about how the phone looks. Additionally, don't wait another 8 months before selling v03s, we want it soon, or fix the v02. Regarding what OM has done right: They released an awesome development platform for the gsm networks. What I want from FR now: I want someone from FR (steve mosher? sean moss?) to post updates and a timeline. I want them to say when things will be fixed, what exact developments are going on at OM, etc... This has to be on a regular basis. They -need- a blog or a similar method to publish this. At least it would give us some small bit of confidence that our devices are being worked on. Right now the only development I see is: -mickey on FSO, he publishes a lot data, wwe can get ahold of him -some minor work on the kernel. Get steve mosher (pr) somewhere available. we want transparency.. On 12/12/08, Karthik Kumar wrote: > I clearly don't blame the developers here myself. I blame Openmoko's > selfish management (probably it's board of directors or C*Os) for > this. I am sure that a developer who talks back against this will just > get fired/have to face bad consequences. > > What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the management to > change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? > > > -Karthik > > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Paul wrote: > > My experience, as I'm sure with many other people, with my freerunner > > has been frustrating most of the time. To say, its all on the user is > > wrong. Granted the community could be better, however, its hard to > > contribute when everything is so fragmented. > > > > For instance, about the echo problem, one of the developers for > > OpenMoko stated "Since there are different hw versions out there (a5, > > a6, a7), it's impossible to provide one alsa state file that suits all > > models." Wait a sec. If the developers know the issues, What's > > preventing the if statement that would prevent hundreds of hours of > > tweaking, testing, and frustration for the community? > > > > Let's be honest here FIC is making a pretty penny off of OpenMoko, > > using very old hardware selling at a premium price (2.5g not even > > EDGE). Yet we are OK with that. What the community DOES expect is > > basic support, for starters a phone that makes calls without echoing, > > doesn't drop connection and sends and receives text messages reliably > > as the Number 1 priority. If I'm not mistaken, the majority of the > > working code in OpenMoko is from Trolltech. In addition FSO has a > > very nice distro and the Freerunner isn't even its main device. Yet > > more than 1 year AFTER the release of the 1974, we still have MAJOR > > issues from a basic install of Om. Then we read stuff like this. > > > > "OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for > > qtopia is fairly limited." > > > > It becomes evident that FIC and Openmoko cares less about creating > > reliably working software then it does about moving products. (not > > blaming the developers here, they get pressure) Follow the next link > > and I think I've made my case. > > > > http://www.cafepress.com/openmoko_inc > > > > Now with that said, I will be posting online my howtos including > > scripts to make a kinda stable variant of FDOM soon. Been too busy > > reflashing my phone. > > > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Karthik Kumar > wrote: > >> You should have fixed the GTA02 months back, when you released it. > >> Instead, you people are working on GTA03/Neo Whatever. It proves that > >> you don't care about the community, You just care about the bunch of > >> people who might want to buy your upcoming phones, who sponsor your own > >> selfish causes and suffer while you are working on GTA04. > > > > -- > > Paul > > Email - pault...@gmail.com > > > > There were moments when he looked on evil simply as a mode through > > which he could realize his conception of the beautiful. > > Oscar Wilde - The Picture of Dorian Gray > > > > ___ > > support mailing list > > support@lists.openmoko.org > > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/su
Re: Sad Story
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | I agree with this whole thread of Openmoko's fatal mistake of moving on | to GTA03 with GTA02 still being unstable and unusable as a primary | phone. If GTA02 gets left behind in the dust without ever working There a great deal of work ongoing for GTA02 right now. I know I am spending more than half my time on it the last month. Sharing your opinion that IF $THING_THAT_ISNT_TRUE "then it would be bad" is just wasting everyone's time. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklCuTwACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoe0ACbBjE3BhdHDk701/5+AEBPr2lE SnAAnjtDCgyA1wradZ+ColeQsGTZpB4p =xPUv -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | I clearly don't blame the developers here myself. I blame Openmoko's | selfish management (probably it's board of directors or C*Os) for | this. I am sure that a developer who talks back against this will just | get fired/have to face bad consequences. | | What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the management to | change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? You should first form a list of what issues you have that can be fixed. ~ You'll need it for your lawyer, right? By an amazing coincidence, that list of actual issues is what the support mailing list is for. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklCuC8ACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpp/wCePEA7pXlQ1xIuMRm2aMVza6c5 4WkAmQHCXELZ+FcHULksEI8NY8PB0raM =4gJf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
I agree with this whole thread of Openmoko's fatal mistake of moving on to GTA03 with GTA02 still being unstable and unusable as a primary phone. If GTA02 gets left behind in the dust without ever working properly, it doesn't say much for their company. If Openmoko feels the hardware of GTA02 is inadequate to even bother making it a stable phone, there should be some sort of recall and free replacement with a GTA03. $399 for a phone that never worked properly is pretty hard to swallow, and even harder to swallow when the company expects people to buy a new phone while blatantly ignoring that same community of users who have invested time and money in developing and testing their original phones. - Marcus Karthik Kumar wrote: > I clearly don't blame the developers here myself. I blame Openmoko's > selfish management (probably it's board of directors or C*Os) for > this. I am sure that a developer who talks back against this will just > get fired/have to face bad consequences. > > What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the management to > change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? > > -Karthik > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Paul wrote: > >> My experience, as I'm sure with many other people, with my freerunner >> has been frustrating most of the time. To say, its all on the user is >> wrong. Granted the community could be better, however, its hard to >> contribute when everything is so fragmented. >> >> For instance, about the echo problem, one of the developers for >> OpenMoko stated "Since there are different hw versions out there (a5, >> a6, a7), it's impossible to provide one alsa state file that suits all >> models." Wait a sec. If the developers know the issues, What's >> preventing the if statement that would prevent hundreds of hours of >> tweaking, testing, and frustration for the community? >> >> Let's be honest here FIC is making a pretty penny off of OpenMoko, >> using very old hardware selling at a premium price (2.5g not even >> EDGE). Yet we are OK with that. What the community DOES expect is >> basic support, for starters a phone that makes calls without echoing, >> doesn't drop connection and sends and receives text messages reliably >> as the Number 1 priority. If I'm not mistaken, the majority of the >> working code in OpenMoko is from Trolltech. In addition FSO has a >> very nice distro and the Freerunner isn't even its main device. Yet >> more than 1 year AFTER the release of the 1974, we still have MAJOR >> issues from a basic install of Om. Then we read stuff like this. >> >> "OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for >> qtopia is fairly limited." >> >> It becomes evident that FIC and Openmoko cares less about creating >> reliably working software then it does about moving products. (not >> blaming the developers here, they get pressure) Follow the next link >> and I think I've made my case. >> >> http://www.cafepress.com/openmoko_inc >> >> Now with that said, I will be posting online my howtos including >> scripts to make a kinda stable variant of FDOM soon. Been too busy >> reflashing my phone. >> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Karthik Kumar >> wrote: >> >>> You should have fixed the GTA02 months back, when you released it. >>> Instead, you people are working on GTA03/Neo Whatever. It proves that >>> you don't care about the community, You just care about the bunch of >>> people who might want to buy your upcoming phones, who sponsor your own >>> selfish causes and suffer while you are working on GTA04. >>> >> -- >> Paul >> Email - pault...@gmail.com >> >> There were moments when he looked on evil simply as a mode through >> which he could realize his conception of the beautiful. >> Oscar Wilde - The Picture of Dorian Gray >> >> ___ >> support mailing list >> support@lists.openmoko.org >> https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support >> >> > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > > ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
I will say this: Open source is philanthrophy. Making money is alright. Using Open source to make money is acceptable. You see those EeePcs? It's Open source, people get what they pay for - hardware and software. Now, claiming that because 'it's Open source, we allow you to do what you want' is just lying, because what you really mean is 'it's not our priority, sucker'. Do you see Openmoko? It's Open source, but nobody delivered. My contribution is to make more people in the community see the truth that I saw. And when they participate, that is the only way your Openmoko management is going to see what is RIGHT. Do not use the open source as a red herring argument. -Karthik On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 12:33 AM, Angus Ainslie wrote: > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Karthik Kumar > wrote: >> I clearly don't blame the developers here myself. I blame Openmoko's >> selfish management (probably it's board of directors or C*Os) for >> this. I am sure that a developer who talks back against this will just >> get fired/have to face bad consequences. >> >> What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the management to >> change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? >> >> -Karthik >> > > Opensource is about contributing for the greater good. If your > contribution is to threaten legal action please do us all a favor and > put your freerunner on ebay. Then go out and get one of the "free" > phones given away by your local cell phone company. > > Angus > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | For instance, about the echo problem, one of the developers for | OpenMoko stated "Since there are different hw versions out there (a5, | a6, a7), it's impossible to provide one alsa state file that suits all A7 -- yet to ship -- has this "big cap" mod to attack buzz issue, it impacts mic gain: I can imagine that's why this was told. Yes the magic files can be split by PCB rev (which is known to userspace)... but it's out of scope for me so you should take it up on Trac. Even on shipping devices I read people recommending different magic numbers to avoid echo though so I think it's probably down to you to move a slider the once until you are happy, awful imposition as that is. | as the Number 1 priority. If I'm not mistaken, the majority of the | working code in OpenMoko is from Trolltech. In addition FSO has a If you prefer Qtopia please use it :-) | very nice distro and the Freerunner isn't even its main device. Yet | more than 1 year AFTER the release of the 1974, we still have MAJOR 1973 | issues from a basic install of Om. Then we read stuff like this. | | "OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for | qtopia is fairly limited." As John Lee explained, and I knew to be so before he told from other readings anyway, this is a problem with nomenclature. He does not actually mean GTA03 hardware here but stuff that will apply to GTA02 along the lines GTA02 rootfs today applies to GTA01. | It becomes evident that FIC and Openmoko cares less about creating What's evident to me is there is a danger of so enjoying and wanting to prolong the "victim" status that opportunities to solve problems and move things forward are actively ignored. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklCt0IACgkQOjLpvpq7dMp6RQCghMII6HrV+jtbePkJDN+mFRRX kZMAnjBPLcuEnoELTFkf//FKKUZ1Zdst =jcBP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Karthik Kumar wrote: > I clearly don't blame the developers here myself. I blame Openmoko's > selfish management (probably it's board of directors or C*Os) for > this. I am sure that a developer who talks back against this will just > get fired/have to face bad consequences. > > What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the management to > change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? > > -Karthik > Opensource is about contributing for the greater good. If your contribution is to threaten legal action please do us all a favor and put your freerunner on ebay. Then go out and get one of the "free" phones given away by your local cell phone company. Angus ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
NINJA-PIRATES! On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 7:54 PM, Karthik Kumar wrote: > I clearly don't blame the developers here myself. I blame Openmoko's > selfish management (probably it's board of directors or C*Os) for > this. I am sure that a developer who talks back against this will just > get fired/have to face bad consequences. > > What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the management to > change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? > > -Karthik > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Paul wrote: >> My experience, as I'm sure with many other people, with my freerunner >> has been frustrating most of the time. To say, its all on the user is >> wrong. Granted the community could be better, however, its hard to >> contribute when everything is so fragmented. >> >> For instance, about the echo problem, one of the developers for >> OpenMoko stated "Since there are different hw versions out there (a5, >> a6, a7), it's impossible to provide one alsa state file that suits all >> models." Wait a sec. If the developers know the issues, What's >> preventing the if statement that would prevent hundreds of hours of >> tweaking, testing, and frustration for the community? >> >> Let's be honest here FIC is making a pretty penny off of OpenMoko, >> using very old hardware selling at a premium price (2.5g not even >> EDGE). Yet we are OK with that. What the community DOES expect is >> basic support, for starters a phone that makes calls without echoing, >> doesn't drop connection and sends and receives text messages reliably >> as the Number 1 priority. If I'm not mistaken, the majority of the >> working code in OpenMoko is from Trolltech. In addition FSO has a >> very nice distro and the Freerunner isn't even its main device. Yet >> more than 1 year AFTER the release of the 1974, we still have MAJOR >> issues from a basic install of Om. Then we read stuff like this. >> >> "OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for >> qtopia is fairly limited." >> >> It becomes evident that FIC and Openmoko cares less about creating >> reliably working software then it does about moving products. (not >> blaming the developers here, they get pressure) Follow the next link >> and I think I've made my case. >> >> http://www.cafepress.com/openmoko_inc >> >> Now with that said, I will be posting online my howtos including >> scripts to make a kinda stable variant of FDOM soon. Been too busy >> reflashing my phone. >> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Karthik Kumar >> wrote: >>> You should have fixed the GTA02 months back, when you released it. >>> Instead, you people are working on GTA03/Neo Whatever. It proves that >>> you don't care about the community, You just care about the bunch of >>> people who might want to buy your upcoming phones, who sponsor your own >>> selfish causes and suffer while you are working on GTA04. >> >> -- >> Paul >> Email - pault...@gmail.com >> >> There were moments when he looked on evil simply as a mode through >> which he could realize his conception of the beautiful. >> Oscar Wilde - The Picture of Dorian Gray >> >> ___ >> support mailing list >> support@lists.openmoko.org >> https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support >> > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
I clearly don't blame the developers here myself. I blame Openmoko's selfish management (probably it's board of directors or C*Os) for this. I am sure that a developer who talks back against this will just get fired/have to face bad consequences. What would be the best way to 'convince' or 'force' the management to change their decisions? Does anyone know a lawyer? -Karthik On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Paul wrote: > My experience, as I'm sure with many other people, with my freerunner > has been frustrating most of the time. To say, its all on the user is > wrong. Granted the community could be better, however, its hard to > contribute when everything is so fragmented. > > For instance, about the echo problem, one of the developers for > OpenMoko stated "Since there are different hw versions out there (a5, > a6, a7), it's impossible to provide one alsa state file that suits all > models." Wait a sec. If the developers know the issues, What's > preventing the if statement that would prevent hundreds of hours of > tweaking, testing, and frustration for the community? > > Let's be honest here FIC is making a pretty penny off of OpenMoko, > using very old hardware selling at a premium price (2.5g not even > EDGE). Yet we are OK with that. What the community DOES expect is > basic support, for starters a phone that makes calls without echoing, > doesn't drop connection and sends and receives text messages reliably > as the Number 1 priority. If I'm not mistaken, the majority of the > working code in OpenMoko is from Trolltech. In addition FSO has a > very nice distro and the Freerunner isn't even its main device. Yet > more than 1 year AFTER the release of the 1974, we still have MAJOR > issues from a basic install of Om. Then we read stuff like this. > > "OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for > qtopia is fairly limited." > > It becomes evident that FIC and Openmoko cares less about creating > reliably working software then it does about moving products. (not > blaming the developers here, they get pressure) Follow the next link > and I think I've made my case. > > http://www.cafepress.com/openmoko_inc > > Now with that said, I will be posting online my howtos including > scripts to make a kinda stable variant of FDOM soon. Been too busy > reflashing my phone. > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Karthik Kumar wrote: >> You should have fixed the GTA02 months back, when you released it. >> Instead, you people are working on GTA03/Neo Whatever. It proves that >> you don't care about the community, You just care about the bunch of >> people who might want to buy your upcoming phones, who sponsor your own >> selfish causes and suffer while you are working on GTA04. > > -- > Paul > Email - pault...@gmail.com > > There were moments when he looked on evil simply as a mode through > which he could realize his conception of the beautiful. > Oscar Wilde - The Picture of Dorian Gray > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
My experience, as I'm sure with many other people, with my freerunner has been frustrating most of the time. To say, its all on the user is wrong. Granted the community could be better, however, its hard to contribute when everything is so fragmented. For instance, about the echo problem, one of the developers for OpenMoko stated "Since there are different hw versions out there (a5, a6, a7), it's impossible to provide one alsa state file that suits all models." Wait a sec. If the developers know the issues, What's preventing the if statement that would prevent hundreds of hours of tweaking, testing, and frustration for the community? Let's be honest here FIC is making a pretty penny off of OpenMoko, using very old hardware selling at a premium price (2.5g not even EDGE). Yet we are OK with that. What the community DOES expect is basic support, for starters a phone that makes calls without echoing, doesn't drop connection and sends and receives text messages reliably as the Number 1 priority. If I'm not mistaken, the majority of the working code in OpenMoko is from Trolltech. In addition FSO has a very nice distro and the Freerunner isn't even its main device. Yet more than 1 year AFTER the release of the 1974, we still have MAJOR issues from a basic install of Om. Then we read stuff like this. "OM is moving more focus to gta03 now, so my current resource for qtopia is fairly limited." It becomes evident that FIC and Openmoko cares less about creating reliably working software then it does about moving products. (not blaming the developers here, they get pressure) Follow the next link and I think I've made my case. http://www.cafepress.com/openmoko_inc Now with that said, I will be posting online my howtos including scripts to make a kinda stable variant of FDOM soon. Been too busy reflashing my phone. On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Karthik Kumar wrote: > You should have fixed the GTA02 months back, when you released it. > Instead, you people are working on GTA03/Neo Whatever. It proves that > you don't care about the community, You just care about the bunch of > people who might want to buy your upcoming phones, who sponsor your own > selfish causes and suffer while you are working on GTA04. -- Paul Email - pault...@gmail.com There were moments when he looked on evil simply as a mode through which he could realize his conception of the beautiful. Oscar Wilde - The Picture of Dorian Gray ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Yeah, If I were going to file it a ticket, it would be this: 'Make | Openmoko work all the time, in all these scenarios'. I'm sure my ticket Well, every day I have to figure out what to spend time on, if you aren't talking about specific issues you are having zero impact on my choices. Unless you just like to maintain having something to complain about, that isn't helping you. | See, if everything you have made until now were fixed immediately, the If you stop and think about the opportunity represented by being able to talk direct to the guy who has some control over hardware, bootloader and kernel choices in Openmoko, are you sure that the general handwaving complaining you have fallen back on is the best chance to solve whatever it is that is bothering you? - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklCLqgACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoBwwCbBg0YHnPTTQAR8KhV8smRJphC Rt8AoIkVynqewojbNnhjIKWwWs2N5Y+5 =R2r7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Although I do agree with you that I'm whining, I ask you can to a look at your own statements: 'Though not yet truly fixed', 'Usually', 'though it's not tackled' Let me say what I wanted to say: A phone would, should, must, work reliably every time. If there is a 'slight' chance of error, it would prove a liability. For example: Let us say that you were kidnapped by someone, and you wanted to make a 911 call, and the ALSA volume screwed up, or the GSM screwed up, then you wouldn't be looking forward to 'hack a fix' that night, would you? I hope and pray 'karma' doesn't take a toll on Openmoko devels. Yeah, If I were going to file it a ticket, it would be this: 'Make Openmoko work all the time, in all these scenarios'. I'm sure my ticket would be dismissed as being too 'general', but it represents a hole that all of us (as in Openmoko owners) feel. Forget my ticket, I check the Trac every week. I haven't even seen the Om2008.10 release out there yet, not all of it's issues are closed. Instead of blaming me for not filing a ticket, blame yourself for not closing all those other tickets yet. @Joel: See, when Openmoko's marketing department sells this phone as 'Free your phone', I'm sure they are referring to a 'phone' not a 'unstable but hackable computer'. If, there was a lawyer willing to take up these causes and whine on the owners' behalf, it would land Openmoko in class-action trouble, causing millions in litigation. Oh, there are lawyers who take up more frivolous lawsuits, and you know they win. Please refrain from saying that 'you got exactly what you paid for', or 'you weren't promised a thing'. See, Openmoko devels may not have themselves been responsible for this false marketing. But Openmoko as an organization includes everyone concerned (the devels). As a person representing Openmoko Inc, you should be responsible to your stakeholders. Including your customers. See, if everything you have made until now were fixed immediately, the community would benefit. And I speak for 1973 owners as well. You should have fixed the GTA02 months back, when you released it. Instead, you people are working on GTA03/Neo Whatever. It proves that you don't care about the community, You just care about the bunch of people who might want to buy your upcoming phones, who sponsor your own selfish causes and suffer while you are working on GTA04. I'm sick and tired of reflashing my phone every time, reconfiguring it every time, hoping it would 'all' work at one point of time. Why don't you do something about this instead? Joel Newkirk wrote: > If there's nothing YOU can do with the freerunner then it's just a > worthless paperweight - wanna sell it for $10? I might go to $20 if you > insist, it really is a pretty paperweight. > > > I'm sick of people whining like this. If you have a specific issue, raise > it, if you have a fix, post it. If you have general bitchiness send it to > /dev/null. The latest stable kernel version at kernel.org is 2.6.27.8, but > they're working on 2.6.28. Does that mean that "clearly... they didn't get > it right yet"? > > To state that "there is nothing you can do with the freerunner" is just a > sign of whininess, or lack of creativity or interest. I use mine daily as > a phone and a pocket computer, and nightly as a hobbyist project, and have > for several months. You don't need to be a programmer, but at this point > in the lifecycle of the FreeRunner you do really need an understanding of > Linux, or at least willingness and capability to learn. (at least if you > aspire to do more than place/receive calls, use GPS, send/receive SMS, etc > - the smartphone basics don't require linux-specific knowledge) > > My GPS works great. > > I've not had any GSM 'buzz' problems AFAIK. I've suffered from the GSM > echo problem which is now satisfactorily (though not perfectly) addressed, > and the 'bouncing Calypso' problem where GSM loses and regains > registration. (which is avoided lately - though not yet truly fixed - and > only apparently affects a portion of shipped units with particular GSM > firmware) > > Suspend and resume usually work fine. (qualified as 'usually' because I > frequently change rootfs, kernel and bootloader - and some combinations > thereof have problems) > > Oh, and I've had no problem with GPRS. At one point I was turning it on > and off via an icon, then I changed over to have it always-on or on-demand > - if not plugged into a host PC and wifi is down it 'just works'. Setting > this up this way requires some knowledge of linux, granted. But I found > Assisted-GPS and GPRS to work just fine back under 2008.8 with the > wiki-documented addition of a settings app that enabled/disabled GPRS, > Wifi, and AGPS. More recently frameworkd (FSO and SHR) has taken care of > AGPS and GPRS nicely, though it's not yet tackled wifi. > > AFAIK nobody here was promised a perfect fully-functional smartphone. If > they were, and wa
Re: Sad Story
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 9:30 AM, W.Kenworthy wrote: > On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 22:20 -0500, Joel Newkirk wrote: > > If there's nothing YOU can do with the freerunner then it's just a > > > For me, I would love to be able to guarantee that I can receive SMS > messages with the same reliability as the cheapest phone on the market - > the FR cant do that and its not something I can fix. And thats a > constant problem for me. > > BillK Does not and tracking kernel make wake from suspend on sms arrival work reliably? My phone has been doing that for sometime now. Rakshat -- -- Please use Firefox as your web browser. Its protects you from spyware and is also a very feature rich browser. www.firefox.com ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 22:20 -0500, Joel Newkirk wrote: > If there's nothing YOU can do with the freerunner then it's just a Joel do keep in mind you appear to be one of the lucky ones who has hit on a combination where the FR works to a standard you are happy with - not all of us (and I think thats a VERY large number of FR owners) are in your lucky circumstance. For me, I would love to be able to guarantee that I can receive SMS messages with the same reliability as the cheapest phone on the market - the FR cant do that and its not something I can fix. And thats a constant problem for me. BillK ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
If there's nothing YOU can do with the freerunner then it's just a worthless paperweight - wanna sell it for $10? I might go to $20 if you insist, it really is a pretty paperweight. I'm sick of people whining like this. If you have a specific issue, raise it, if you have a fix, post it. If you have general bitchiness send it to /dev/null. The latest stable kernel version at kernel.org is 2.6.27.8, but they're working on 2.6.28. Does that mean that "clearly... they didn't get it right yet"? To state that "there is nothing you can do with the freerunner" is just a sign of whininess, or lack of creativity or interest. I use mine daily as a phone and a pocket computer, and nightly as a hobbyist project, and have for several months. You don't need to be a programmer, but at this point in the lifecycle of the FreeRunner you do really need an understanding of Linux, or at least willingness and capability to learn. (at least if you aspire to do more than place/receive calls, use GPS, send/receive SMS, etc - the smartphone basics don't require linux-specific knowledge) My GPS works great. I've not had any GSM 'buzz' problems AFAIK. I've suffered from the GSM echo problem which is now satisfactorily (though not perfectly) addressed, and the 'bouncing Calypso' problem where GSM loses and regains registration. (which is avoided lately - though not yet truly fixed - and only apparently affects a portion of shipped units with particular GSM firmware) Suspend and resume usually work fine. (qualified as 'usually' because I frequently change rootfs, kernel and bootloader - and some combinations thereof have problems) Oh, and I've had no problem with GPRS. At one point I was turning it on and off via an icon, then I changed over to have it always-on or on-demand - if not plugged into a host PC and wifi is down it 'just works'. Setting this up this way requires some knowledge of linux, granted. But I found Assisted-GPS and GPRS to work just fine back under 2008.8 with the wiki-documented addition of a settings app that enabled/disabled GPRS, Wifi, and AGPS. More recently frameworkd (FSO and SHR) has taken care of AGPS and GPRS nicely, though it's not yet tackled wifi. AFAIK nobody here was promised a perfect fully-functional smartphone. If they were, and want to complain about it, talk to whomever made the promises. Most of us, at least, are here to participate in a community comprised in large part of developers who are finding new things to 'do' with the FreeRunner every day. We are ALL the 'they', though I read your post to use "they"="Openmoko". Did you happen to notice that Andy, the person to whom you replied, is "one of them"? In fact, the same Andy as referred to in the kernel mentioned, 2.6.28 "ANDY-tracking", which AIUI Andy has devoted quite a bit of time and effort to, making all the Openmoko-specific kernel bits work with a kernel version that's still not even "out", and is very distinctly a moving target, as the upstream source changes slightly on a frequent basis. Sorry if I've offended, but I really am getting tired of the frequent generalized complaints posted about 'it no work', 'it junk', etc. j On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:02:13 +0530, "Karthik Kumar" wrote: > Next week, not as of NOW. Clearly, the point was, they didn't get it > right yet. So unless they have actually done something, there is > nothing you can do with the freerunner. > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:14 PM, Andy Green wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Somebody in the thread at some point said: >> | Hi, >> | >> | For instance, the Openmoko GPS signal level is bummed because of a >> | hardware fault, also there are merely quirks to solve them. The >> >> ... which was worked around in kernel once the aggressor signal was >> identified. >> >> https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1542#comment:27 >> >> | Openmoko battery discharging, suspend and resume have not been ironed >> | out fully yet. You would see these in _ANY_ basic phone out there. And >> | people have been giving commands to get the GPRS modem to work. You >> | see what I'm talking about? Nothing is connected, really. >> >> The problem with charger restarting is solved >> >> https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1158#comment:33 >> >> and suspend and resume should be on a way more solid footing now on the >> 2.6.28-rc andy-tracking kernels. Starting next week the root >> filesystems will be adapted for these kernels and we start to provide >> packages for them. >> >> | Now, If you can't get to fix these today, how do u expect a person to >> | program it well enough to rescue it back? You can't expect everyone to >> | spend all their time getting their bare minimum phones to work, do >> | you? >> >> Well, three of the four things you mention are solved AFAIK. It leaves >> "people have been giving commands to get the GPRS modem to work"... it >> doesn't quite sound like the terrible thing that supports the general >> ar
Re: Sad Story
It does make a good paper weight. On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Karthik Kumar wrote: > Next week, not as of NOW. Clearly, the point was, they didn't get it > right yet. So unless they have actually done something, there is > nothing you can do with the freerunner. > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:14 PM, Andy Green wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Somebody in the thread at some point said: >> | Hi, >> | >> | For instance, the Openmoko GPS signal level is bummed because of a >> | hardware fault, also there are merely quirks to solve them. The >> >> ... which was worked around in kernel once the aggressor signal was >> identified. >> >> https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1542#comment:27 >> >> | Openmoko battery discharging, suspend and resume have not been ironed >> | out fully yet. You would see these in _ANY_ basic phone out there. And >> | people have been giving commands to get the GPRS modem to work. You >> | see what I'm talking about? Nothing is connected, really. >> >> The problem with charger restarting is solved >> >> https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1158#comment:33 >> >> and suspend and resume should be on a way more solid footing now on the >> 2.6.28-rc andy-tracking kernels. Starting next week the root >> filesystems will be adapted for these kernels and we start to provide >> packages for them. >> >> | Now, If you can't get to fix these today, how do u expect a person to >> | program it well enough to rescue it back? You can't expect everyone to >> | spend all their time getting their bare minimum phones to work, do >> | you? >> >> Well, three of the four things you mention are solved AFAIK. It leaves >> "people have been giving commands to get the GPRS modem to work"... it >> doesn't quite sound like the terrible thing that supports the general >> argument you're making. >> >> - -Andy >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org >> >> iEYEARECAAYFAklBQ4oACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpMqwCeJRix5jq8OH4JHR9OZiy+ylQS >> KYIAnjwxIPRXmY/qiBsDF0yAXhg1AUIB >> =JLh7 >> -END PGP SIGNATURE- >> >> ___ >> support mailing list >> support@lists.openmoko.org >> https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support >> > > > > -- > Karthik > http://guilt.bafsoft.net > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > -- Paul Email - pault...@gmail.com There were moments when he looked on evil simply as a mode through which he could realize his conception of the beautiful. Oscar Wilde - The Picture of Dorian Gray ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: |> 2.6.28-rc andy-tracking kernels. Starting next week the root |> filesystems will be adapted for these kernels and we start to provide |> packages for them. | Next week, not as of NOW. Clearly, the point was, they didn't get it | right yet. So unless they have actually done something, there is | nothing you can do with the freerunner. GPS stuff was done months ago... the other two are fixed now in 2.6.28-rc based kernels... and it'll filter through to our standard packages next week. Really: it's not a good basis for doom and gloom :-) - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklBUsoACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoIsgCghNmFTzXtFTX9fk5xUXi5qaj2 z+UAn0QuBNqicr56XqrUxIDEcv6HyP+m =Vb4z -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Next week, not as of NOW. Clearly, the point was, they didn't get it right yet. So unless they have actually done something, there is nothing you can do with the freerunner. On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:14 PM, Andy Green wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Somebody in the thread at some point said: > | Hi, > | > | For instance, the Openmoko GPS signal level is bummed because of a > | hardware fault, also there are merely quirks to solve them. The > > ... which was worked around in kernel once the aggressor signal was > identified. > > https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1542#comment:27 > > | Openmoko battery discharging, suspend and resume have not been ironed > | out fully yet. You would see these in _ANY_ basic phone out there. And > | people have been giving commands to get the GPRS modem to work. You > | see what I'm talking about? Nothing is connected, really. > > The problem with charger restarting is solved > > https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1158#comment:33 > > and suspend and resume should be on a way more solid footing now on the > 2.6.28-rc andy-tracking kernels. Starting next week the root > filesystems will be adapted for these kernels and we start to provide > packages for them. > > | Now, If you can't get to fix these today, how do u expect a person to > | program it well enough to rescue it back? You can't expect everyone to > | spend all their time getting their bare minimum phones to work, do > | you? > > Well, three of the four things you mention are solved AFAIK. It leaves > "people have been giving commands to get the GPRS modem to work"... it > doesn't quite sound like the terrible thing that supports the general > argument you're making. > > - -Andy > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAklBQ4oACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpMqwCeJRix5jq8OH4JHR9OZiy+ylQS > KYIAnjwxIPRXmY/qiBsDF0yAXhg1AUIB > =JLh7 > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > -- Karthik http://guilt.bafsoft.net ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Hi, | | For instance, the Openmoko GPS signal level is bummed because of a | hardware fault, also there are merely quirks to solve them. The ... which was worked around in kernel once the aggressor signal was identified. https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1542#comment:27 | Openmoko battery discharging, suspend and resume have not been ironed | out fully yet. You would see these in _ANY_ basic phone out there. And | people have been giving commands to get the GPRS modem to work. You | see what I'm talking about? Nothing is connected, really. The problem with charger restarting is solved https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1158#comment:33 and suspend and resume should be on a way more solid footing now on the 2.6.28-rc andy-tracking kernels. Starting next week the root filesystems will be adapted for these kernels and we start to provide packages for them. | Now, If you can't get to fix these today, how do u expect a person to | program it well enough to rescue it back? You can't expect everyone to | spend all their time getting their bare minimum phones to work, do | you? Well, three of the four things you mention are solved AFAIK. It leaves "people have been giving commands to get the GPRS modem to work"... it doesn't quite sound like the terrible thing that supports the general argument you're making. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklBQ4oACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpMqwCeJRix5jq8OH4JHR9OZiy+ylQS KYIAnjwxIPRXmY/qiBsDF0yAXhg1AUIB =JLh7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Hi, For instance, the Openmoko GPS signal level is bummed because of a hardware fault, also there are merely quirks to solve them. The Openmoko battery discharging, suspend and resume have not been ironed out fully yet. You would see these in _ANY_ basic phone out there. And people have been giving commands to get the GPRS modem to work. You see what I'm talking about? Nothing is connected, really. Now, If you can't get to fix these today, how do u expect a person to program it well enough to rescue it back? You can't expect everyone to spend all their time getting their bare minimum phones to work, do you? -Karthik On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 5:35 PM, rakshat hooja <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Karthik Kumar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> >> One of the things I would like to say here is that if Openmoko had >> actually made the OS & hardware work pretty reliably, we might at >> least be able to program it for such things (protection and what not) >> >> Else it's just a matter of time before all Freerunners are stolen and >> nothing could be done about that. >> >> I wish Openmoko would release a stable version in gta02 than fiddle >> around with gta03. I suspect they should have done this to the owners >> of the neo1973 as well. >> > > I think Qtopia, FSO and SHR work well in Neo 1973 as well. And from what I > understand the same software will run on GTA02 and GTA03 > > Rakshat > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > > -- Karthik http://guilt.bafsoft.net ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Karthik Kumar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > One of the things I would like to say here is that if Openmoko had > actually made the OS & hardware work pretty reliably, we might at > least be able to program it for such things (protection and what not) > > Else it's just a matter of time before all Freerunners are stolen and > nothing could be done about that. > > I wish Openmoko would release a stable version in gta02 than fiddle > around with gta03. I suspect they should have done this to the owners > of the neo1973 as well. > > I think Qtopia, FSO and SHR work well in Neo 1973 as well. And from what I understand the same software will run on GTA02 and GTA03 Rakshat ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
One of the things I would like to say here is that if Openmoko had actually made the OS & hardware work pretty reliably, we might at least be able to program it for such things (protection and what not) Else it's just a matter of time before all Freerunners are stolen and nothing could be done about that. I wish Openmoko would release a stable version in gta02 than fiddle around with gta03. I suspect they should have done this to the owners of the neo1973 as well. -Karthik On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Karthik Kumar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I wouldn't worry about the robber coming home and beating you up for a > USB charger at all. It looks like many el-cheapo phones (<$60) come > with USB chargers and cables which also work with the Freerunner. That > makes it easier to steal the Freerunner though :( > > Keeping a poison-pill splash screen sounds like a great idea. Maybe > you could keep a screaming sound too (Help! I'm stolen) which can be > disabled if u quickly pressed some keys/parts of the screen when it > boots up. Of course, if you're lazy to do that, you could be in > trouble for stealing your own phone. > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 4:27 AM, Yorick Moko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> since there is a mini-usb port the robber will be able to find it out; >> he'll probably beat you to death for wasting his time with something >> that vagely looks like like a phone but that he can't get to work as >> one even after tinkering with it for months :) >> >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:15 PM, Joachim Ott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Putting your address on the splash screen could turn into a poison pill for >>> yourself. The robber could come to your house and beat you with a pair of >>> tennis shoes until you tell him where you have the charger. >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> support mailing list >>> support@lists.openmoko.org >>> https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support >>> >>> >> >> ___ >> support mailing list >> support@lists.openmoko.org >> https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support >> > ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
I wouldn't worry about the robber coming home and beating you up for a USB charger at all. It looks like many el-cheapo phones (<$60) come with USB chargers and cables which also work with the Freerunner. That makes it easier to steal the Freerunner though :( Keeping a poison-pill splash screen sounds like a great idea. Maybe you could keep a screaming sound too (Help! I'm stolen) which can be disabled if u quickly pressed some keys/parts of the screen when it boots up. Of course, if you're lazy to do that, you could be in trouble for stealing your own phone. On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 4:27 AM, Yorick Moko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > since there is a mini-usb port the robber will be able to find it out; > he'll probably beat you to death for wasting his time with something > that vagely looks like like a phone but that he can't get to work as > one even after tinkering with it for months :) > > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:15 PM, Joachim Ott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Putting your address on the splash screen could turn into a poison pill for >> yourself. The robber could come to your house and beat you with a pair of >> tennis shoes until you tell him where you have the charger. >> >> >> >> ___ >> support mailing list >> support@lists.openmoko.org >> https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support >> >> > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
That's what I would call "support" mailing list. lol :) Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible - El 10/12/2008, a las 04:57 p.m., Yorick Moko escribió: > since there is a mini-usb port the robber will be able to find it out; > he'll probably beat you to death for wasting his time with something > that vagely looks like like a phone but that he can't get to work as > one even after tinkering with it for months :) > > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:15 PM, Joachim Ott > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Putting your address on the splash screen could turn into a poison >> pill for >> yourself. The robber could come to your house and beat you with a >> pair of >> tennis shoes until you tell him where you have the charger. >> >> >> >> ___ >> support mailing list >> support@lists.openmoko.org >> https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support >> >> > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
since there is a mini-usb port the robber will be able to find it out; he'll probably beat you to death for wasting his time with something that vagely looks like like a phone but that he can't get to work as one even after tinkering with it for months :) On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:15 PM, Joachim Ott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Putting your address on the splash screen could turn into a poison pill for > yourself. The robber could come to your house and beat you with a pair of > tennis shoes until you tell him where you have the charger. > > > > ___ > support mailing list > support@lists.openmoko.org > https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support > > ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
2008/12/10 Daniel Benoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I installed a poison pill in my phone. The splash screen when you turn it > on has my picture, my address, and a little warning saying that the owner > hasn't authorized it for sale. I decided if someone were to ever rob me of > my phone, they would at least not be able to benefit from it without some > technical skills to get rid of that message. Putting your address on the splash screen could turn into a poison pill for yourself. The robber could come to your house and beat you with a pair of tennis shoes until you tell him where you have the charger. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Sunday 30 November 2008 10:21:40 you wrote: > Hi, > > Last night a burglar stole my FR. I was in a car, with the window opened, > playing with the GPS and when we stopped at a traffic light, two guys came by > the back. I was in the right side of the back seat, one of these guys knocked > on the left window side, when I turned my head to the left to see what > happened the other guy came by the right and picked up my FR from my hand. > For some miliseconds my whole life with the FR came across my mind. I saw all > the moments I spend configuring the phone, all the happyness my FR had bring > to me when some functionality started to work, all the hours awaiting for a > new realese of some software that implemented new functions... Then, I went > out of the car and run behind those guys trying to catch them. I was in a > kind of highway, I run and run, but they cross the highway to the other side, > between cars going on very fast, and I had to leave it up. I returned to the > car in a state of shock, I got into the car, with my girlfriend, and started > to cry. I loved that phone. > > My phone had debian on it. I had a lot of applications configured. I used it > like my main phone. Mail accounts configured, Phonebook with all contacts, a > lot of sms, many applications configured with my users/passwds. And I > realized they had access to all. I called the mobile phone company to suspend > the number, I've changed almost all important passwds, anyway, although I > think they even don't know how to use the FR, maybe they will sell it to > someone that do, and he'll surf into my life. > > I only wanted to share this story with you. Maybe, because sharing my sadness > I'll feel better, maybe not... > > best regards. > > My thoughts are with you friend. Some thoughts for your next phone: I installed a poison pill in my phone. The splash screen when you turn it on has my picture, my address, and a little warning saying that the owner hasn't authorized it for sale. I decided if someone were to ever rob me of my phone, they would at least not be able to benefit from it without some technical skills to get rid of that message. Also if you turn it on it 'phones home' via GPRS with its GPS location, but it doesn't connect to GPRS by default yet, so that won't help me. I can't wait to see a stable connection manager take care of this for me. -- Daniel Benoy http://daniel.benoy.name ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Please move to [community] this is he SUPPORT-ML! /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Juan- I have a Free Runner I just don't have time to mess with. I might be willing to sell it... Condolences. radtek ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
Thomas White wrote: >> Your service provider should know the IMEI number >> > > I believe it's also written on a small sticky label on the bottom of > the nice black Freerunner box, but I don't have mind to hand to test. Just had a look at mine, and It is indeed on the bottom of the box. -Dale ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
Re: Sad Story
On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 08:13:15 -0500 "Seth Rothenberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Your service provider should know the IMEI number I believe it's also written on a small sticky label on the bottom of the nice black Freerunner box, but I don't have mind to hand to test. Pulster also wrote it on my delivery paperwork. Tom ___ support mailing list support@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/support
