Re: [Elphel-support] Questions about Elphel 323 Sensor Board

[Nick Duvoisin]

Hi Andrey,

I have one board - the sensor board (10324), which contains both the analog
and FPGA components.  This seems to be different than the configuration for
the 363 sensor board (10342), which just had the analog components (there
was a separate CCD control board 10347).

According to your website, the 323 camera consisted of: 1 - 4 of 10313
CPU/compressor boards (10313), one sensor board (10324), and one power
supply board (10325).  I have the sensor board, I can buy the processor
board 10353 from you, and make the power supply board myself (maybe buying
the bare PCB from you).

If I order the 10353, can you install the 363 software on it?  Will that
software be able to operate the 10324 board without modification (I'm
guessing the KAI-11000 and KAI-11002 are very similar)?  Or, can I just use
the image provided on SourceForge? (
https://sourceforge.net/projects/elphel/files/elphel353-8/8.2.16/)

My other question is about the FPGA on the sensor board (Xilinx XC2S300E).
Will it be stable after all these years?  Do you have a copy of the image
used to program it?  I wondering just in case there is a problem with it.

Thanks again for all the advice!
Nick






On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 10:02 AM Elphel Support <
support-list@support.elphel.com> wrote:

>
> Nick,
>
> We may have the power supply bare PCB (no components), and it is designed
> specifically for the 323 camera, so there is no replacements. If I
> understand correctly you have 2 boards (analog and FPGA)?
>
> I would still recommend to use 10353 (we should have some) and its'
> existing software (for 363 that we have one as a reference) - designing a
> completely new system around NVIDIA would be a really huge job, even to
> make it program FPGA can be somewhat tricky.
>
> Andrey
>
>
>
>  On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 00:39:31 -0600 *Nick Duvoisin
> >* wrote 
>
> Hi Andrey,
>
> Thanks for the quick response!  It looks like it will require a 1D20325
> power supply board in addition to the 10353 processor board.  Do you still
> have any of those available?  If not, are there any other power supply
> boards that could be used in lieu of the 1D20325?
>
> Also, is there any documentation on how to interface with these sensor
> boards?  It would be interesting to try and use an NVIDIA Jetson Nano (
> https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-nano-developer-kit) to drive
> the sensor board.  I know that replacing FPGAs with GPUs is a trend for
> certain imaging applications.
>
> Nick
>
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 12:07 AM Elphel Support <
> support-list@support.elphel.com> wrote:
>
> ___
> Support-list mailing list
> Support-list@support.elphel.com
> http://support.elphel.com/mailman/listinfo/support-list_support.elphel.com
>
>
> Hi Nick,
>
> I believe it also needs other boards - I need to check, these boards were
> made before we started wiki.elphel.com and put there documentation. These
> boards docs are here:
>
> http://legacy.elphel.com/3fhlo/
>
> The 323 cameras used older 10313 boards (2 of them as the bandwidth of the
> older ETRAX processor was insufficient to provide required 1/1.5s frame
> rate.
> It is possible to build model 363 camera that uses 1 10353 instead of the
> 2 10313 - https://wiki.elphel.com/wiki/353_legacy
> We do have 10353 boards, but not the other ones. And have one 363 camera
> so we can probably check what software is there
>
> 323 cameras were operated with JP4 encoding (
> https://community.elphel.com/jp4/jp4demo.php) that was developed
> specifically for that purpose - no de-Bayer in the camera. The same was
> used in the Street View R5 (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View), it is shown on the
> picture there called "A Google Street View trike" - large black octagon
> that provided first high-res imagery.
> And we still use JP4 this format in all our current cameras. Internally it
> uses the same JPEG engine that we implemented in the FPGA, just reorders
> pixels. The JPEG quality can be set to any value, including 100%
>
> Andrey
>
>
>  On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 00:42:28 -0600 *Nick Duvoisin
> >* wrote 
>
> Hi,
>
> I recently ordered a sensor board from the Elphel 323 camera off Ebay and
> had a few questions about getting it up and running. The board has the
> Kodak KAI11000 CCD sensor and has model number 1A20324 Rev "A".  I'm a
> software engineer, so you can be technical in your responses.
>
>
>1. This particular sensor board contains both the FPGA-based
>timing/interface module and the analog sensor front-end, correct? (I can
>see a Xilinx Spartan FPGA on it)
>
>2. From a hardware standpoint, all I need to create a functioning
>camera is a 10353 processor board, power supply, and injector cable,
>correct? (besides a housing, lens mount, and lens)
>
>3. Do you still sell the 10353 processor board, or will I have to have
>one made from the Gerber file and parts list?
>
>4. For the software, it looks like the x353 

Re: [Elphel-support] Questions about Elphel 323 Sensor Board

[Elphel Support]

Nick,

We may have the power supply bare PCB (no components), and it is designed 
specifically for the 323 camera, so there is no replacements. If I understand 
correctly you have 2 boards (analog and FPGA)?

I would still recommend to use 10353 (we should have some) and its' existing 
software (for 363 that we have one as a reference) - designing a completely new 
system around NVIDIA would be a really huge job, even to make it program FPGA 
can be somewhat tricky. 

Andrey



 On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 00:39:31 -0600 Nick Duvoisin 
 wrote 


Hi Andrey,



Thanks for the quick response!  It looks like it will require a 1D20325 power 
supply board in addition to the 10353 processor board.  Do you still have any 
of those available?  If not, are there any other power supply boards that could 
be used in lieu of the 
1D20325?



Also, is there any documentation on how to interface with these sensor boards?  
It would be interesting to try and use an NVIDIA Jetson Nano 
(https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-nano-developer-kit) to drive the 
sensor board.  I know that replacing FPGAs with GPUs is a trend for certain 
imaging applications.



Nick



On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 12:07 AM Elphel Support 
 wrote:




___
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Hi Nick,

I believe it also needs other boards - I need to check, these boards were made 
before we started http://wiki.elphel.com and put there documentation. These 
boards docs are here:

http://legacy.elphel.com/3fhlo/
The 323 cameras used older 10313 boards (2 of them as the bandwidth of the 
older ETRAX processor was insufficient to provide required 1/1.5s frame rate.
It is possible to build model 363 camera that uses 1 10353 instead of the 2 
10313 - https://wiki.elphel.com/wiki/353_legacy
We do have 10353 boards, but not the other ones. And have one 363 camera so we 
can probably check what software is there

323 cameras were operated with JP4 encoding 
(https://community.elphel.com/jp4/jp4demo.php) that was developed specifically 
for that purpose - no de-Bayer in the camera. The same was used in the Street 
View R5 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View), it is shown on the 
picture there called "A Google Street View trike" - large black octagon that 
provided first high-res imagery.
 And we still use JP4 this format in all our current cameras. Internally it 
uses the same JPEG engine that we implemented in the FPGA, just reorders 
pixels. The JPEG quality can be set to any value, including 100%

Andrey


 On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 00:42:28 -0600 Nick Duvoisin 
 wrote 


Hi,



I recently ordered a sensor board from the Elphel 323 camera off Ebay and had a 
few questions about getting it up and running. The board has the Kodak KAI11000 
CCD sensor and has model number 1A20324 Rev "A".  I'm a software engineer, so 
you can be technical in your responses.



This particular sensor board contains both the FPGA-based timing/interface 
module and the analog sensor front-end, correct? (I can see a Xilinx Spartan 
FPGA on it)


>From a hardware standpoint, all I need to create a functioning camera is a 
>10353 processor board, power supply, and injector cable, correct? (besides a 
>housing, lens mount, and lens)


Do you still sell the 10353 processor board, or will I have to have one made 
from the Gerber file and parts list?


For the software, it looks like the x353 repository on GitHub contains the 
Verilog to create the BIT file for the FPGA.  But where can I find the 
Linux-based webserver software that allows me to control the camera over 
Ethernet?  It looks like the linux-elphel repository contains this software for 
the 10393 board only.



My ultimate goal is to create a camera based on a monochrome full-frame CCD 
sensor that does not apply a demosaicing  algorithm to the raw pixel data.  
Much like a Leica M Monochrom, but with a Canon EF lens mount.  I realize this 
will take a long time to complete, but I'm looking forward to the challenge and 
learning more about how image sensors work!



Thanks,

Nick



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Re: [Elphel-support] Questions about Elphel 323 Sensor Board

[Nick Duvoisin]

Hi Andrey,

Thanks for the quick response!  It looks like it will require a 1D20325
power supply board in addition to the 10353 processor board.  Do you still
have any of those available?  If not, are there any other power supply
boards that could be used in lieu of the 1D20325?

Also, is there any documentation on how to interface with these sensor
boards?  It would be interesting to try and use an NVIDIA Jetson Nano (
https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-nano-developer-kit) to drive
the sensor board.  I know that replacing FPGAs with GPUs is a trend for
certain imaging applications.

Nick

On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 12:07 AM Elphel Support <
support-list@support.elphel.com> wrote:

>
> Hi Nick,
>
> I believe it also needs other boards - I need to check, these boards were
> made before we started wiki.elphel.com and put there documentation. These
> boards docs are here:
>
> http://legacy.elphel.com/3fhlo/
>
> The 323 cameras used older 10313 boards (2 of them as the bandwidth of the
> older ETRAX processor was insufficient to provide required 1/1.5s frame
> rate.
> It is possible to build model 363 camera that uses 1 10353 instead of the
> 2 10313 - https://wiki.elphel.com/wiki/353_legacy
> We do have 10353 boards, but not the other ones. And have one 363 camera
> so we can probably check what software is there
>
> 323 cameras were operated with JP4 encoding (
> https://community.elphel.com/jp4/jp4demo.php) that was developed
> specifically for that purpose - no de-Bayer in the camera. The same was
> used in the Street View R5 (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View), it is shown on the
> picture there called "A Google Street View trike" - large black octagon
> that provided first high-res imagery.
> And we still use JP4 this format in all our current cameras. Internally it
> uses the same JPEG engine that we implemented in the FPGA, just reorders
> pixels. The JPEG quality can be set to any value, including 100%
>
> Andrey
>
>
>  On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 00:42:28 -0600 *Nick Duvoisin
> >* wrote 
>
> Hi,
>
> I recently ordered a sensor board from the Elphel 323 camera off Ebay and
> had a few questions about getting it up and running. The board has the
> Kodak KAI11000 CCD sensor and has model number 1A20324 Rev "A".  I'm a
> software engineer, so you can be technical in your responses.
>
>
>1. This particular sensor board contains both the FPGA-based
>timing/interface module and the analog sensor front-end, correct? (I can
>see a Xilinx Spartan FPGA on it)
>
>2. From a hardware standpoint, all I need to create a functioning
>camera is a 10353 processor board, power supply, and injector cable,
>correct? (besides a housing, lens mount, and lens)
>
>3. Do you still sell the 10353 processor board, or will I have to have
>one made from the Gerber file and parts list?
>
>4. For the software, it looks like the x353 repository on GitHub
>contains the Verilog to create the BIT file for the FPGA.  But where can I
>find the Linux-based webserver software that allows me to control the
>camera over Ethernet?  It looks like the linux-elphel repository contains
>this software for the 10393 board only.
>
>
> My ultimate goal is to create a camera based on a monochrome full-frame
> CCD sensor that does not apply a demosaicing algorithm to the raw pixel
> data.  Much like a Leica M Monochrom, but with a Canon EF lens mount.  I
> realize this will take a long time to complete, but I'm looking forward to
> the challenge and learning more about how image sensors work!
>
> Thanks,
> Nick
> ___
> Support-list mailing list
> Support-list@support.elphel.com
> http://support.elphel.com/mailman/listinfo/support-list_support.elphel.com
>
>
>
>
___
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Support-list@support.elphel.com
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Re: [Elphel-support] Questions about Elphel 323 Sensor Board

[Elphel Support]

Hi Nick,

I believe it also needs other boards - I need to check, these boards were made 
before we started wiki.elphel.com and put there documentation. These boards 
docs are here:

http://legacy.elphel.com/3fhlo/
The 323 cameras used older 10313 boards (2 of them as the bandwidth of the 
older ETRAX processor was insufficient to provide required 1/1.5s frame rate.
It is possible to build model 363 camera that uses 1 10353 instead of the 2 
10313 - https://wiki.elphel.com/wiki/353_legacy
We do have 10353 boards, but not the other ones. And have one 363 camera so we 
can probably check what software is there

323 cameras were operated with JP4 encoding 
(https://community.elphel.com/jp4/jp4demo.php) that was developed specifically 
for that purpose - no de-Bayer in the camera. The same was used in the Street 
View R5 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View), it is shown on the 
picture there called "A Google Street View trike" - large black octagon that 
provided first high-res imagery.
 And we still use JP4 this format in all our current cameras. Internally it 
uses the same JPEG engine that we implemented in the FPGA, just reorders 
pixels. The JPEG quality can be set to any value, including 100%

Andrey


 On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 00:42:28 -0600 Nick Duvoisin 
 wrote 


Hi,



I recently ordered a sensor board from the Elphel 323 camera off Ebay and had a 
few questions about getting it up and running. The board has the Kodak KAI11000 
CCD sensor and has model number 1A20324 Rev "A".  I'm a software engineer, so 
you can be technical in your responses.



This particular sensor board contains both the FPGA-based timing/interface 
module and the analog sensor front-end, correct? (I can see a Xilinx Spartan 
FPGA on it)


>From a hardware standpoint, all I need to create a functioning camera is a 
>10353 processor board, power supply, and injector cable, correct? (besides a 
>housing, lens mount, and lens)


Do you still sell the 10353 processor board, or will I have to have one made 
from the Gerber file and parts list?


For the software, it looks like the x353 repository on GitHub contains the 
Verilog to create the BIT file for the FPGA.  But where can I find the 
Linux-based webserver software that allows me to control the camera over 
Ethernet?  It looks like the linux-elphel repository contains this software for 
the 10393 board only.



My ultimate goal is to create a camera based on a monochrome full-frame CCD 
sensor that does not apply a demosaicing  algorithm to the raw pixel data.  
Much like a Leica M Monochrom, but with a Canon EF lens mount.  I realize this 
will take a long time to complete, but I'm looking forward to the challenge and 
learning more about how image sensors work!



Thanks,

Nick



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mailto:Support-list@support.elphel.com 
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[Elphel-support] Questions about Elphel 323 Sensor Board

[Nick Duvoisin]

Hi,

I recently ordered a sensor board from the Elphel 323 camera off Ebay and
had a few questions about getting it up and running. The board has the
Kodak KAI11000 CCD sensor and has model number 1A20324 Rev "A".  I'm a
software engineer, so you can be technical in your responses.


   1. This particular sensor board contains both the FPGA-based
   timing/interface module and the analog sensor front-end, correct? (I can
   see a Xilinx Spartan FPGA on it)

   2. From a hardware standpoint, all I need to create a functioning camera
   is a 10353 processor board, power supply, and injector cable, correct?
   (besides a housing, lens mount, and lens)

   3. Do you still sell the 10353 processor board, or will I have to have
   one made from the Gerber file and parts list?

   4. For the software, it looks like the x353 repository on GitHub
   contains the Verilog to create the BIT file for the FPGA.  But where can I
   find the Linux-based webserver software that allows me to control the
   camera over Ethernet?  It looks like the linux-elphel repository contains
   this software for the 10393 board only.


My ultimate goal is to create a camera based on a monochrome full-frame CCD
sensor that does not apply a demosaicing algorithm to the raw pixel data.
Much like a Leica M Monochrom, but with a Canon EF lens mount.  I realize
this will take a long time to complete, but I'm looking forward to the
challenge and learning more about how image sensors work!

Thanks,
Nick
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