Re: HTML message display for RSS
Moz Champion (Dan) wrote: Daniel wrote: Moz Champion (Dan) wrote: Hartmut Figge wrote: Moz Champion (Dan): Why is HTML 'okay' in RSS but not in email or news? I view everything in HTML (always have) and have no problems. Do you see then the exactly under the 'okay'? ;) Hartmut No, its offset slightly when I read the message, in my reply it looks fine. Doesn't answer the question tho. If HTML is 'okay' in RSS, why not email or news? Dan, I choose to view my NG's in Plain Text. If you want to view them in HTML, that's fine, but I don't want the increased overheads of HTML as I pay by the byte for my downloads. I don't want to be forced to have the increased overheads. If RSS is ONLY available in HTML mode, I guess that is a reason why I will not use it! Your view may vary!! Daniel Well, in short you are paying for it anyway! When you download a message it is downloaded in whatever form it is, HMTL or plain text. It is only your display that selects what you see, after it is downloaded. So, if a message is sent in HTML, you are paying for it, regardless if you see the HTML or not. For example: If I sent this message in HTML, you would see it listed just like any other, if you choose to open it (to read it) the message is downloaded, HTML and all. Since you have your view set to plain text, only that component is displayed, the rest is suppressed. But it isn't saving you any download bytes at all. Even if I sent it in both (something I never do or encourage) HTML and plain text, when you download it, all the components are downloaded. If you choose (or have chosen via preferences) to view only plain text, then thats what you see, but the HTML components are still there, on your computer. With emails, the same applies. When you download it, you get the entire messages as it was sent, HTML and all. So, sorry to say, your penchant for reading only plain text is not, in reality, saving you any download bytes. Yes, Dan, my penchant for reading only plain text is not saving me any download bytes, but my penchant to let people that want everything in HTML know that not everyone like this in HTML may, just maybe, have an effect on someone, so saving me download bytes in the future.maybe!! Daniel ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
Chris Ilias wrote: Try this: 1. In the SeaMonkey browser, enter the following URL in the Location bar, and press Enter: about:config You may get a warning page (I haven't tried SM2). Bypass it, to get to the about:config page. 2. In the resulting page, search for the preference |rss.display.html_as|. 3. Double-click on |rss.display.html_as|, and set the value to |0|. Chris: This would be great, but I do not find this rss.display.html_as entry in about:config for SM2 Alpha 3. And I still think it should be possible to configure the default message display format on a per server basis in the Account Settings, just as one can for the composition format. Especially for RSS feeds, but I can imagine a situation where one might want to always display a particular mail or news account as HTML. -- David Wilkinson ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
Daniel wrote: Moz Champion (Dan) wrote: Hartmut Figge wrote: Moz Champion (Dan): Why is HTML 'okay' in RSS but not in email or news? I view everything in HTML (always have) and have no problems. Do you see then the exactly under the 'okay'? ;) Hartmut No, its offset slightly when I read the message, in my reply it looks fine. Doesn't answer the question tho. If HTML is 'okay' in RSS, why not email or news? Dan, I choose to view my NG's in Plain Text. If you want to view them in HTML, that's fine, but I don't want the increased overheads of HTML as I pay by the byte for my downloads. I don't want to be forced to have the increased overheads. If RSS is ONLY available in HTML mode, I guess that is a reason why I will not use it! Your view may vary!! Daniel Well, in short you are paying for it anyway! When you download a message it is downloaded in whatever form it is, HMTL or plain text. It is only your display that selects what you see, after it is downloaded. So, if a message is sent in HTML, you are paying for it, regardless if you see the HTML or not. For example: If I sent this message in HTML, you would see it listed just like any other, if you choose to open it (to read it) the message is downloaded, HTML and all. Since you have your view set to plain text, only that component is displayed, the rest is suppressed. But it isn't saving you any download bytes at all. Even if I sent it in both (something I never do or encourage) HTML and plain text, when you download it, all the components are downloaded. If you choose (or have chosen via preferences) to view only plain text, then thats what you see, but the HTML components are still there, on your computer. With emails, the same applies. When you download it, you get the entire messages as it was sent, HTML and all. So, sorry to say, your penchant for reading only plain text is not, in reality, saving you any download bytes. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
Hartmut Figge wrote: Moz Champion (Dan): So? Still does not explain or give any reasoning why HTML is not 'okay' in email or news. Well, i am not allowed to post in HTML to most of my newsservers. Hartmut 'not allowed'? By whom? Thunderbird defaults to 'all newservers' are plain text only records. i.e. if you try to post to one in HTML it will notify you of such, but you can still send in HTML. For email, you can mark recipients as preferring HTML, for newsgroup (new servers) you cannot, they are to Thunderbird plain text only. But you can post to any newsgroup in HTML, although it is not appreciated in most. If you send a newsgroup message in HTML , say on this server, Thunderbird will inform you that one or more of the recipients are marked as preferring plain text, and according to your preferences will do as indicated (I have mine set to Ask). But you can still send in HTML if you wish. If you wish to try it out, simply go to mozilla.test.multimedia (on this server) and post a message in HTML HTML messages are not appreciated in other groups, but they can still be sent. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
Keith Whaley wrote: Moz Champion (Dan) wrote: David Wilkinson wrote: Moz Champion (Dan) wrote: Why is HTML 'okay' in RSS but not in email or news? I view everything in HTML (always have) and have no problems. Because RSS feeds generally point to web pages, and mail or news accounts point to messages. So? Still does not explain or give any reasoning why HTML is not 'okay' in email or news. Many don't appreciate HTML in email or news, but that's simply personal taste, nothing more. I beg to differ with your 'nothing more' statement, sir. Staying with the html part of the discussion, html is disliked for email and news groups because of the excessive room it takes up, and the length of time it takes to download. This has been studied and discussed and picked apart and belabored over for years and years. The truth remains, there are STILL many folks who use dialup and not any of the much faster schemes such as dsl ~ and for these folks, they already labor to download 'normal' text, composed of ascii characters. It takes up a lot more room and elapsed time to receive html formatted documents. Especially for primarily content-laden messages, which get 99.5% of their point across using simple textual characters and NO formatting, why would anyone insist on loading up each message by insisting on html formatting, adding colors and fancy fonts, and symbols? No, it isn't quite as simple and innocuous as you would have us believe, Dan. keith whaley It takes too long? How would you know? You download it anyway. When you 'see' a message in a newsgroup, regardless if it is written in HTML or plain text, it is still listed in the subject pane. If you choose to read it, it will be downloaded HTML and all. So even if you don't read the HTML, you have already taken the time to download it anyway. Same with email. If you download a message, regardless if it is in HTML or not, you get the whole enchilada, not just the parts you want or will display. You get it all, warts and all, HTML and all. Again, if you don't want HTML thats your business, and choice. No complaints there. But in a newsgroup setting (or even an email one) if you want to read the messaage (in plain text or otherwise) you download it all, inclusive of the HTML parts. Yep, HTML can take lots more time and space than plain text, no quarrel there. And I never recommend sending HTML to some one who has not chosen to receive it or otherwise indicated it is 'okay' to them. But it is 'there' in the message as sent if some doofus decided to send it anyway, regardless if you like it or not. For example, all those email spam messages, many of which are written in HTML. They are downloaded to your computer before Junk Mail Controls take a look at them. Even if you have your prefererences set to plain text only, the HTML components are still downloaded, you simply never see them. And again, I was asking what's 'wrong' with HTML in email or news. Regardless if you like it or not, that wasn't the question. If some doofus sends a message in HTML and you either click on it (in a newsgroup) or take delivery of it (email) - you have already taken the time to download it, regardless if you wanted it or not. Again, I never indicated that it is proper or acceptable behaviour to send HTML if the recipient has not indicated a desire for it, but that is simply being polite. You have still not indicated what is 'wrong' with HTML (other than you don't like it) in email or news. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
David Wilkinson wrote: Moz Champion (Dan) wrote: It takes too long? How would you know? You download it anyway. When you 'see' a message in a newsgroup, regardless if it is written in HTML or plain text, it is still listed in the subject pane. If you choose to read it, it will be downloaded HTML and all. So even if you don't read the HTML, you have already taken the time to download it anyway. You are of course correct. But I can do my little bit for the world's bandwidth by composing *my* messages in plain text, and if I do that then it makes sense for me to view my incoming messages in plain text also. But a couple of other reasons: 1. Many of my incoming (and outgoing) messages contain code, and I do not like viewing code in a variable width font. AFAICT, HTML messages are always displayed in a variable width font. 2. If I view my messages as plain text, then I *know* that I will not be the victim of _javascript_, web bugs, and other HTML trickery. OTOH, there is no point in trying to view RSS feeds in plain text, because RSS feeds generally point to web pages. I am not afraid of HTML in RSS feeds, because these are web pages that I have voluntarily subscribed to. Anyway, hence the desire to have the default display type configurable on a per server basis. The only explanation for the absence of such a feature might appear to be that the authors of SM2 are happy to use the HTML setting for everything, which surprises me. Fortunately, it seems from the thread "Is there an allow_html_temp addon for SeaMonkey?" that the situation is improved in the latest nightly builds of SM2, though it falls short of being able to configure the default display setting on a per server basis. FWIW, I will bet any mail any of you folks get from IE,regardless if you see it as plain text are HTML,if you will do the "View-Message or page source" and look and it will be sent as both--HTML and plain text. The message will be in the page twice .Once as plain text and 2nd as HTML. I have had folks try to send me "Just Plain text" but never have I seen it did with out the HTML tagging along. Hooroo--Ron-- ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
David Wilkinson wrote: I have used Netscape/Mozilla Suite/SeaMonkey for many years, and for mail and newsgroups I always both display and compose messages in plain text. I absolutely refuse to have anything to do with HTML in mail or newsgroups. However, in SeaMonkey 2 we have RSS feeds in the mail/newsgroup part of SeaMonkey. Great! However, surely one will almost always want to view an RSS feed as HTML, and the setting for message display cannot be configured on a per server or per feed basis. The setting for message composition can be set on a per server basis, so why not the message display also? Am I missing something here? Is nobody else bothered by this? It always seemed odd to me that you could not configure the default message display type on a per server basis, but now that some of the servers are RSS feeds it is extremely inconvenient (unless you always use HTML in mail and news). Is it this way in Thunderbird also? -- David Wilkinson ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
David Wilkinson wrote: David Wilkinson wrote: I have used Netscape/Mozilla Suite/SeaMonkey for many years, and for mail and newsgroups I always both display and compose messages in plain text. I absolutely refuse to have anything to do with HTML in mail or newsgroups. However, in SeaMonkey 2 we have RSS feeds in the mail/newsgroup part of SeaMonkey. Great! However, surely one will almost always want to view an RSS feed as HTML, and the setting for message display cannot be configured on a per server or per feed basis. The setting for message composition can be set on a per server basis, so why not the message display also? Am I missing something here? Is nobody else bothered by this? It always seemed odd to me that you could not configure the default message display type on a per server basis, but now that some of the servers are RSS feeds it is extremely inconvenient (unless you always use HTML in mail and news). Is it this way in Thunderbird also? Why is HTML 'okay' in RSS but not in email or news? I view everything in HTML (always have) and have no problems. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
Hartmut Figge: Moz Champion (Dan): Why is HTML 'okay' in RSS but not in email or news? I view everything in HTML (always have) and have no problems. Do you see then the exactly under the 'okay'? ;) Well, i do. But in HTML messages i doubt it. Hartmut ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
Hartmut Figge wrote: Moz Champion (Dan): Why is HTML 'okay' in RSS but not in email or news? I view everything in HTML (always have) and have no problems. Do you see then the exactly under the 'okay'? ;) Hartmut No, its offset slightly when I read the message, in my reply it looks fine. Doesn't answer the question tho. If HTML is 'okay' in RSS, why not email or news? ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
Hartmut Figge wrote: Hartmut Figge: Moz Champion (Dan): Why is HTML 'okay' in RSS but not in email or news? I view everything in HTML (always have) and have no problems. Do you see then the exactly under the 'okay'? ;) Well, i do. But in HTML messages i doubt it. Hartmut Nonsense It shows up here as well (this is sent in HTML) the offset is more pronounced (in my view) but that is simply an abstract of switching from fixed width fonts to varialble width ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
Hartmut Figge wrote: Hartmut Figge: Moz Champion (Dan): Why is HTML 'okay' in RSS but not in email or news? I view everything in HTML (always have) and have no problems. Do you see then the exactly under the 'okay'? ;) Well, i do. But in HTML messages i doubt it. Hartmut I use SeaMonkey 1.1.16, and a Mac, with OS 10.5.7. I have my View/ Message Body As/ Original HTML, and in neither message was the directly under the word only. In Harmut's [hour] 1204 and 1206 messages of today, the carets are under the word 'is' and the first two letters of HTML. I see that in this automatically quoted message (above) it is almost under 'okay' but shifted to the left one space. For those who wonder why, it'ss because the next line that contains only the 4 carets only has two 'greater than' symbols to lead the line off. The previous line has three, and the next line has three, but for some reason the caret line only has two. It's almost impossible to get letters and characters on two successive lines (or more) to match up, one above the other. Recall how when many folks make simple 'images' from ascii text, and expect them to come out visually correct. Far and away the majority of the time they show up with one or more lines shifted with respect to the rest. It's pretty much a losing game. keith whaley ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
Moz Champion (Dan): Hartmut Figge wrote: Hartmut Figge: Do you see then the exactly under the 'okay'? ;) Well, i do. But in HTML messages i doubt it. Nonsense You are right, i have just tested. Hartmut ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
Moz Champion (Dan) wrote: Why is HTML 'okay' in RSS but not in email or news? I view everything in HTML (always have) and have no problems. Because RSS feeds generally point to web pages, and mail or news accounts point to messages. -- David Wilkinson ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
David Wilkinson wrote: Moz Champion (Dan) wrote: Why is HTML 'okay' in RSS but not in email or news? I view everything in HTML (always have) and have no problems. Because RSS feeds generally point to web pages, and mail or news accounts point to messages. So? Still does not explain or give any reasoning why HTML is not 'okay' in email or news. Many don't appreciate HTML in email or news, but that's simply personal taste, nothing more. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
Moz Champion (Dan): So? Still does not explain or give any reasoning why HTML is not 'okay' in email or news. Well, i am not allowed to post in HTML to most of my newsservers. Hartmut ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
Moz Champion (Dan) wrote: Many don't appreciate HTML in email or news, but that's simply personal taste, nothing more. Yes, that is my personal taste. But I find my personal taste is in conflict with using SeaMonkey as an RSS feed. Actually, on SeaMonkey 1.x I use the excellent extension allow_html_temp which allows temporary switching to HTML on an individual page. Unfortunately this extension will not currently install on SeaMonkey 2.0. -- David Wilkinson ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
Hartmut Figge wrote: Well, i am not allowed to post in HTML to most of my newsservers. Hartmut: Yes, but you can select the composition method on a per server basis. It is the message display method that you cannot change separately for each server. -- David Wilkinson ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
Moz Champion (Dan) wrote: David Wilkinson wrote: Moz Champion (Dan) wrote: Why is HTML 'okay' in RSS but not in email or news? I view everything in HTML (always have) and have no problems. Because RSS feeds generally point to web pages, and mail or news accounts point to messages. So? Still does not explain or give any reasoning why HTML is not 'okay' in email or news. Many don't appreciate HTML in email or news, but that's simply personal taste, nothing more. I beg to differ with your 'nothing more' statement, sir. Staying with the html part of the discussion, html is disliked for email and news groups because of the excessive room it takes up, and the length of time it takes to download. This has been studied and discussed and picked apart and belabored over for years and years. The truth remains, there are STILL many folks who use dialup and not any of the much faster schemes such as dsl ~ and for these folks, they already labor to download 'normal' text, composed of ascii characters. It takes up a lot more room and elapsed time to receive html formatted documents. Especially for primarily content-laden messages, which get 99.5% of their point across using simple textual characters and NO formatting, why would anyone insist on loading up each message by insisting on html formatting, adding colors and fancy fonts, and symbols? No, it isn't quite as simple and innocuous as you would have us believe, Dan. keith whaley ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
Moz Champion (Dan) wrote: Hartmut Figge wrote: Moz Champion (Dan): Why is HTML 'okay' in RSS but not in email or news? I view everything in HTML (always have) and have no problems. Do you see then the exactly under the 'okay'? ;) Hartmut No, its offset slightly when I read the message, in my reply it looks fine. Doesn't answer the question tho. If HTML is 'okay' in RSS, why not email or news? Dan, I choose to view my NG's in Plain Text. If you want to view them in HTML, that's fine, but I don't want the increased overheads of HTML as I pay by the byte for my downloads. I don't want to be forced to have the increased overheads. If RSS is ONLY available in HTML mode, I guess that is a reason why I will not use it! Your view may vary!! Daniel ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
On 03/06/09 9:21 AM, David Wilkinson wrote: I have used Netscape/Mozilla Suite/SeaMonkey for many years, and for mail and newsgroups I always both display and compose messages in plain text. I absolutely refuse to have anything to do with HTML in mail or newsgroups. However, in SeaMonkey 2 we have RSS feeds in the mail/newsgroup part of SeaMonkey. Great! However, surely one will almost always want to view an RSS feed as HTML, and the setting for message display cannot be configured on a per server or per feed basis. The setting for message composition can be set on a per server basis, so why not the message display also? Am I missing something here? Try this: 1. In the SeaMonkey browser, enter the following URL in the Location bar, and press Enter: about:config You may get a warning page (I haven't tried SM2). Bypass it, to get to the about:config page. 2. In the resulting page, search for the preference |rss.display.html_as|. 3. Double-click on |rss.display.html_as|, and set the value to |0|. -- Chris Ilias http://ilias.ca List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia Keeper of the Knowledge Base: https://support.mozilla.com/kb/ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
On 04/06/09 3:44 PM, Moz Champion (Dan) wrote: Hartmut Figge wrote: Moz Champion (Dan): Why is HTML 'okay' in RSS but not in email or news? I view everything in HTML (always have) and have no problems. Do you see then the exactly under the 'okay'? ;) Hartmut No, its offset slightly when I read the message, in my reply it looks fine. Doesn't answer the question tho. If HTML is 'okay' in RSS, why not email or news? Dan, instead hijacking his thread by starting an argument about 'HTML vs. plain-text', why don't you help the user? -- Chris Ilias http://ilias.ca List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia Keeper of the Knowledge Base: https://support.mozilla.com/kb/ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: HTML message display for RSS
Heiko Adams wrote: In the feed properties you can configure if seamonkey should show a summary of the entry or load the website of the entry. Heiko: I left this option to display only the summary unchecked. -- David Wilkinson ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
