Re: Site problem: is it my setup or the site? Seamonkey 1.1.14

2009-03-11 Thread Barclay, Daniel
flyguy wrote:
 Mark Hansen wrote:
...
 
 Bingo! My minimum font size (Appearance|Fonts|Minimum) was set to 12. 
 Setting to 11 and everything is in place and looking good. I've never 
 come across a site that was so sensitive to font size; ocasionally, 
 enlarging the font might overlap some text or put a few characters on 
 the border where they are a little harder to read. But, to have 90% of 
 the page disappear off to the right is unprecedented for me!
 
 As noted, three ctrl+ and 90% of the page jumps a page width or so the 
 right. That's with the minimum font size set to 11.

For those of use who see must of the content disappear entirely (not just
jump to the right), any idea how that's happening (what in the CSS/etc. would
make things disappear)?

Daniel
-- 
(Plain text sometimes corrupted to HTML courtesy of Microsoft Exchange.) [F]

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Re: Site problem: is it my setup or the site? Seamonkey 1.1.14

2009-02-08 Thread Mark Hansen
On 02/07/09 23:29, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
 flyguy wrote:
 This site
 
 http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php
 
 displays very poorly. The menu bar is fine, but the rest of it is mostly 
 off-screen to the right. There is no horizontal scroll bar, so it's 
 impossible to read. My other computer with SM 1.1.14 does the same 
 thing; IE 7 displays it properly.
 
 I've tried disabling McAfee security, allowing all cookies, popups and 
 images, but no joy. My useragent strings are
 
 general.useragent.extra.Firefox  Firefox/2.0
 general.useragent.extra.seamonkey  SeaMonkey/1.1.14
 
 Any suggestions?
 
 it looks the same to me in IE7 as it does in SM 1.1.14.
 
 Perhaps the suggestions here might help:
 
 http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Websites+look+wrong
 
 If not, then post a screenshot of what you see, cause I 
 sure don't see anything wrong.
 

Using SeaMonkey 1.1.13 on Linux, if I just increase the font size a
little, everything gets hosed. Try Ctrl+Plus a couple or three times
and you should see it.
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Re: Site problem: is it my setup or the site? Seamonkey 1.1.14

2009-02-08 Thread David E. Ross
On 2/8/2009 10:22 AM, John Doue wrote:
 Mark Hansen wrote:
 On 02/07/09 23:29, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
 flyguy wrote:
 This site

 http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php

 displays very poorly. The menu bar is fine, but the rest of it is mostly 
 off-screen to the right. There is no horizontal scroll bar, so it's 
 impossible to read. My other computer with SM 1.1.14 does the same 
 thing; IE 7 displays it properly.

 I've tried disabling McAfee security, allowing all cookies, popups and 
 images, but no joy. My useragent strings are

 general.useragent.extra.Firefox  Firefox/2.0
 general.useragent.extra.seamonkey  SeaMonkey/1.1.14

 Any suggestions?
 it looks the same to me in IE7 as it does in SM 1.1.14.

 Perhaps the suggestions here might help:

 http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Websites+look+wrong

 If not, then post a screenshot of what you see, cause I 
 sure don't see anything wrong.

 Using SeaMonkey 1.1.13 on Linux, if I just increase the font size a
 little, everything gets hosed. Try Ctrl+Plus a couple or three times
 and you should see it.
 
 Just a fact: this site, as others which do not display properly with 
 1.1.14 displays properly with 1.1.13 on XP. As an individual user, I 
 care mostly about seeing sites, even poorly written, properly.
 
 It is a difficult issue for developers, but until there is an Internet 
 police, the user is king ...

Part of the problem is that the page was written for a particular screen
size or resolution and with a specific font size.  If your browser
window is smaller than maximized and has less than 1024x768 resolution,
there will be a horizontal scrollbar.  Of course, that resolution
requires making fonts larger, which then causes display problems.  It's
just a poorly designed page.

-- 
David E. Ross
http://www.rossde.com/

Go to Mozdev at http://www.mozdev.org/ for quick access to
extensions for Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, and other
Mozilla-related applications.  You can access Mozdev much
more quickly than you can Mozilla Add-Ons.
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Re: Site problem: is it my setup or the site? Seamonkey 1.1.14

2009-02-08 Thread John Doue

Mark Hansen wrote:

On 02/08/09 10:22, John Doue wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:

On 02/07/09 23:29, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:

flyguy wrote:

This site

http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php

displays very poorly. The menu bar is fine, but the rest of it is mostly 
off-screen to the right. There is no horizontal scroll bar, so it's 
impossible to read. My other computer with SM 1.1.14 does the same 
thing; IE 7 displays it properly.


I've tried disabling McAfee security, allowing all cookies, popups and 
images, but no joy. My useragent strings are


general.useragent.extra.Firefox  Firefox/2.0
general.useragent.extra.seamonkey  SeaMonkey/1.1.14

Any suggestions?

it looks the same to me in IE7 as it does in SM 1.1.14.

Perhaps the suggestions here might help:

http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Websites+look+wrong

If not, then post a screenshot of what you see, cause I 
sure don't see anything wrong.



Using SeaMonkey 1.1.13 on Linux, if I just increase the font size a
little, everything gets hosed. Try Ctrl+Plus a couple or three times
and you should see it.
Just a fact: this site, as others which do not display properly with 
1.1.14 displays properly with 1.1.13 on XP.


Just a fact: I viewed the site referenced by the OP on SeaMonkey 1.1.13
on Windows/XP, increased the font size by one step and it went bonkers.


  As an individual user, I
care mostly about seeing sites, even poorly written, properly.


Well, good luck with that. The problem is that many site developers don't
understand what is needed to design their application to work on multiple
browsers. They test that it runs on their browser of choice (usually, IE)
and others are left to chance.

You are right of course, and it is a shame. But it is a fact of life, 
and using a browser which won't display properly a poorly written page 
does not do any good any body ...


It is a difficult issue for developers, but until there is an Internet 
police, the user is king ...


So, as a user, what can you do? You can certainly contact the site
developer and let them know about their site's shortcoming. You can
view their site with *their* preferred browser. You can boycott their
site.


You forgot the obvious option: using a SM version which is more tolerant 
to code errors or oversights. 1.1.13 seems ok to me in this respect and 
I went back from 14 to 13 for that very reason. Selfishly, I use the 
tool that best fits my needs. Ideally, I want to be the one who decides 
which sites I won't look at because they are poorly written. Using the 
latest version is of no interest to me, per se.


Contacting the developer? That certainly is the most useful thing to do, 
provided one has the required qualifications and expertise. I certainly 
don't. But meanwhile, being able to more or less properly see a 
imperfect site seems to be a good compromise.


I even recently came across a site from a very well known Finnish mobile 
phone company whose French sites display properly in SM, but do not let 
me log in when I provide the proper identification. I tried the same 
site with FF 2.0.20 same result. Eventually,  I tried with IE, and 
there, I was able to access on first try.


All this is very frustrating and I sympathize with the compromises 
developers must make. But I make my owns too!

--
John Doue
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Re: Site problem: is it my setup or the site? Seamonkey 1.1.14

2009-02-08 Thread robert . gault

flyguy wrote:

This site

http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php

displays very poorly. The menu bar is fine, but the rest of it is mostly 
off-screen to the right. There is no horizontal scroll bar, so it's 
impossible to read. My other computer with SM 1.1.14 does the same 
thing; IE 7 displays it properly.


I've tried disabling McAfee security, allowing all cookies, popups and 
images, but no joy. My useragent strings are


general.useragent.extra.Firefox  Firefox/2.0
general.useragent.extra.seamonkey  SeaMonkey/1.1.14

Any suggestions?


Perhaps the site has been changed but it displays perfectly for me with 
Seamonkey 1.1.14, WinXP, at a desktop resolution of 1024x768. There is 
no horizontal scroll bar and no need for one.


Tools/Web Development gives only 3 warnings.
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Re: Site problem: is it my setup or the site? Seamonkey 1.1.14

2009-02-08 Thread David E. Ross
On 2/8/2009 3:29 PM, Mark Hansen wrote [in part]:
 
 I've seen some
 sites designed with IE in mind and no interest at all in getting them
 to work with any other clients.

True but sad.  The various versions of IE account for a steadily
declining share of the browser market.  IE now has only 45% to 60% of
the market, depending on who is measuring.

When businesses allow Web developers to create Web sites focused on IE,
I chacterize that as tying their Internet presence . . . to a 'fading
star'.  They are ignoring 40% to 55% of their potential
customer-audience.

-- 
David E. Ross
http://www.rossde.com/

Go to Mozdev at http://www.mozdev.org/ for quick access to
extensions for Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, and other
Mozilla-related applications.  You can access Mozdev much
more quickly than you can Mozilla Add-Ons.
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Re: Site problem: is it my setup or the site? Seamonkey 1.1.14

2009-02-08 Thread flyguy

John Doue wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:

On 02/07/09 23:29, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:

flyguy wrote:

This site

http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php

displays very poorly. The menu bar is fine, but the rest of it is 
mostly off-screen to the right. There is no horizontal scroll bar, 
so it's impossible to read. My other computer with SM 1.1.14 does 
the same thing; IE 7 displays it properly.


I've tried disabling McAfee security, allowing all cookies, popups 
and images, but no joy. My useragent strings are


general.useragent.extra.Firefox  Firefox/2.0
general.useragent.extra.seamonkey  SeaMonkey/1.1.14

Any suggestions?

it looks the same to me in IE7 as it does in SM 1.1.14.

Perhaps the suggestions here might help:

http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Websites+look+wrong

If not, then post a screenshot of what you see, cause I sure don't 
see anything wrong.




Using SeaMonkey 1.1.13 on Linux, if I just increase the font size a
little, everything gets hosed. Try Ctrl+Plus a couple or three times
and you should see it.


Just a fact: this site, as others which do not display properly with 
1.1.14 displays properly with 1.1.13 on XP. As an individual user, I 
care mostly about seeing sites, even poorly written, properly.


As an individual user, I care about using an up to date browser with 
it's vulnerabilities fixed, whether it's SM or IE. My preference is SM, 
but it doesn't work well enough, and that is very few times a year, I'll 
try IE 7. Usually, that doesn't work any better, and I return to SM. 
This particular web site has an extraordinarily different appearance 
between the two browser.


It is a difficult issue for developers, but until there is an Internet 
police, the user is king ...


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Re: Site problem: is it my setup or the site? Seamonkey 1.1.14

2009-02-08 Thread flyguy

Mark Hansen wrote:

On 02/07/09 23:29, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:

flyguy wrote:

This site

http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php

displays very poorly. The menu bar is fine, but the rest of it is mostly 
off-screen to the right. There is no horizontal scroll bar, so it's 
impossible to read. My other computer with SM 1.1.14 does the same 
thing; IE 7 displays it properly.


I've tried disabling McAfee security, allowing all cookies, popups and 
images, but no joy. My useragent strings are


general.useragent.extra.Firefox  Firefox/2.0
general.useragent.extra.seamonkey  SeaMonkey/1.1.14

Any suggestions?

it looks the same to me in IE7 as it does in SM 1.1.14.

Perhaps the suggestions here might help:

http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Websites+look+wrong

If not, then post a screenshot of what you see, cause I 
sure don't see anything wrong.




Using SeaMonkey 1.1.13 on Linux, if I just increase the font size a
little, everything gets hosed. Try Ctrl+Plus a couple or three times
and you should see it.


Bingo! My minimum font size (Appearance|Fonts|Minimum) was set to 12. 
Setting to 11 and everything is in place and looking good. I've never 
come across a site that was so sensitive to font size; ocasionally, 
enlarging the font might overlap some text or put a few characters on 
the border where they are a little harder to read. But, to have 90% of 
the page disappear off to the right is unprecedented for me!


As noted, three ctrl+ and 90% of the page jumps a page width or so the 
right. That's with the minimum font size set to 11.

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Re: Site problem: is it my setup or the site? Seamonkey 1.1.14

2009-02-08 Thread David E. Ross
On 2/8/2009 7:14 PM, flyguy wrote:
 Mark Hansen wrote:
 On 02/07/09 23:29, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
 flyguy wrote:
 This site

 http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php

 displays very poorly. The menu bar is fine, but the rest of it is mostly 
 off-screen to the right. There is no horizontal scroll bar, so it's 
 impossible to read. My other computer with SM 1.1.14 does the same 
 thing; IE 7 displays it properly.

 I've tried disabling McAfee security, allowing all cookies, popups and 
 images, but no joy. My useragent strings are

 general.useragent.extra.Firefox  Firefox/2.0
 general.useragent.extra.seamonkey  SeaMonkey/1.1.14

 Any suggestions?
 it looks the same to me in IE7 as it does in SM 1.1.14.

 Perhaps the suggestions here might help:

 http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Websites+look+wrong

 If not, then post a screenshot of what you see, cause I 
 sure don't see anything wrong.

 Using SeaMonkey 1.1.13 on Linux, if I just increase the font size a
 little, everything gets hosed. Try Ctrl+Plus a couple or three times
 and you should see it.
 
 Bingo! My minimum font size (Appearance|Fonts|Minimum) was set to 12. 
 Setting to 11 and everything is in place and looking good. I've never 
 come across a site that was so sensitive to font size; ocasionally, 
 enlarging the font might overlap some text or put a few characters on 
 the border where they are a little harder to read. But, to have 90% of 
 the page disappear off to the right is unprecedented for me!
 
 As noted, three ctrl+ and 90% of the page jumps a page width or so the 
 right. That's with the minimum font size set to 11.

That indicates that (as I commented elsewhere in this thread) the page
was designed for a very specific resolution, window size, and font size.
 On that subject, see
http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/abdesign2.html#screensize,
http://www.coedu.usf.edu/it/resources/WWWDESG_1.htm#Page, and
http://wwwhost.cc.utexas.edu/web/guidelines/pagesize.html.

-- 
David E. Ross
http://www.rossde.com/

Go to Mozdev at http://www.mozdev.org/ for quick access to
extensions for Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, and other
Mozilla-related applications.  You can access Mozdev much
more quickly than you can Mozilla Add-Ons.
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