[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:13:59 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> Memory usage was plateauing = memory usage was constantly at the
> (low) maximum, and it was using 100% CPU in a vain attempt to reclaim
> the last byte of memory. This is the most likely explanation by far

Right. (Is it just me, or does that sound like a design flaw with the
jvm? Ie. if it is that short on memory, why doesn't it produce a
graceful NotEnoughMemoryError, instead of killing my machine's cpu in
search of the last free byte?

> If it is a memory problem, db4o will probably solve it, however the
> db4o branch does do somewhat more disk access, which might
> conceivably be a problem on very old hardware.

I hope so :S. It is pretty bad, atm, for machines with "little" free
RAM. Any rough idea of when we can expect this?

Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:13:59 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
 Memory usage was plateauing = memory usage was constantly at the
 (low) maximum, and it was using 100% CPU in a vain attempt to reclaim
 the last byte of memory. This is the most likely explanation by far

Right. (Is it just me, or does that sound like a design flaw with the
jvm? Ie. if it is that short on memory, why doesn't it produce a
graceful NotEnoughMemoryError, instead of killing my machine's cpu in
search of the last free byte?

 If it is a memory problem, db4o will probably solve it, however the
 db4o branch does do somewhat more disk access, which might
 conceivably be a problem on very old hardware.

I hope so :S. It is pretty bad, atm, for machines with little free
RAM. Any rough idea of when we can expect this?
___
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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 13:49:58 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Thursday 05 February 2009 00:43, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > On Mon, 2 Feb 2009 17:26:40 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > > On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:13:59 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday 27 January 2009 20:03, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:44:59 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > > > > > > Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory,
> > > > > > > throw the box out the window and buy a new one. If you
> > > > > > > can't do that wait for the db4o branch.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Or, more likely, throw freenet out the window :|.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of
> > > > > > > issues the answer has been either that it is showing
> > > > > > > constant Full GC's because it has slightly too little
> > > > > > > memory, or that there is external CPU load. Are you
> > > > > > > absolutely completely totally
> > > > > > > 100% sure that that is not the
> > > > > > > problem? AFAICS there are two posters here, and just
> > > > > > > because one of them is sure that the problem isn't memory
> > > > > > > doesn't necessarily mean that the other one's problems
> > > > > > > are not due to memory??
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > My node crashed/restarted again due to
> > > > > > MessageCore/PacketSender freezing for 3 minutes. The
> > > > > > problem appears to be with cpu usage, since my memory usage
> > > > > > is basically plateauing when the crash occurs, though I
> > > > > > suppose the two factors may not be necessarily entirely
> > > > > > unrelated. My cpu load (ie. as reported by uptime) would
> > > > > > sometimes rise pretty dramatically, with a 15-min load
> > > > > > number hovering between 3 and 4, which brings my system to
> > > > > > a crawl, and I guess this eventually "freezes" some threads
> > > > > > in freenet, and then triggers the shutdown.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Restarting the node "fixes" the cpu-load problem, even though
> > > > > the node is doing exactly the same stuff as before, at least
> > > > > from the user's perspective. So, clearly, the problem is not
> > > > > just "slow and obsolete" hardware as you suggest, but
> > > > > something else internal to the code, that grows out of
> > > > > control over time--over the course of dozens of hours.
> > > > 
> > > > I.e. memory usage. QED!
> > > > 
> > > > Memory usage was plateauing = memory usage was constantly at the
> > > > (low) maximum, and it was using 100% CPU in a vain attempt to
> > > > reclaim the last byte of memory. This is the most likely
> > > > explanation by far: Can you categorically rule it out via
> > > > checking freenet.loggc? You did add the wrapper.conf line I
> > > > mentioned?:
> > > 
> > > Hrm. Upon closer inspection of my latest loggc,
> > > http://dennisn.dyndns.org/guest/pubstuff/loggc-freezes.log.bz2
> > > 
> > > It appears that memory may in fact be an issue. But I don't think
> > > it's the memory limit itself. This last test I set my java memory
> > > limit to 250MB, and the logs show it never went much above 200MB.
> > > BUT, looking at the last few Full GC's, the time it took for them
> > > to complete increased rapidly near the end, and the last Full GC
> > > took over 3min!, which probably triggered the "freeze".
> > > 
> > > My system only has 384MB of physical ram and 400MB of swap in a
> > > swapfile (all of which is on Raid5/LVM :b). My current theory is
> > > that maybe the terribly long Full GCs are due to long disk-io
> > > times resulting from accessing the Raid5/LVM/swapfile. "man java"
> > > shows an interesting option "-Xincgc", which seems to avoid Full
> > > GC's:
> > > 
> > > "
> > > Enable the incremental garbage collector. The incremental
> > > garbage collector, which is off by default, will reduce the
> > > occasional long garbage-collection pauses during program exe-
> > > cution. The incremental garbage collector will at times exe-
> > > cute concurrently with the program and during such times will
> > > reduce the processor capacity available to the program.
> > > "
> > > 
> > > I'll see if that has any effect. (Is there any way to make the jvm
> > > more forgiving, to allow it to handle longer-than-3min garbage
> > > collections?)
> > > 
> > > Here is my vmstat, in 60s samples, without freenet running. So,
> > > clearly, with < 10M of physical memory free, the swapfile will be
> > > used heavily :o.
> > > 
> > > # vmstat -S M 60
> > > -memory-- ---swap-- -io --system--
> > > cpu swpd   free   buff  cache   si   sobibo
> > > incs us sy id wa 101  9 371790033
> > > 155  471   192 19  2 74  5 101  5 3717900
> > > 7921  442   179 20  4 66 11 101  8 371790
> > > 071 5  441   114 68  3 25  3 101  8 37180
> > > 0059

Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 13:49:58 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
 On Thursday 05 February 2009 00:43, Dennis Nezic wrote:
  On Mon, 2 Feb 2009 17:26:40 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
   On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:13:59 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
On Tuesday 27 January 2009 20:03, Dennis Nezic wrote:
 On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:44:59 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
  On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
   Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory,
   throw the box out the window and buy a new one. If you
   can't do that wait for the db4o branch.
  
  Or, more likely, throw freenet out the window :|.
  
   Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of
   issues the answer has been either that it is showing
   constant Full GC's because it has slightly too little
   memory, or that there is external CPU load. Are you
   absolutely completely totally
   100% sure that that is not the
   problem? AFAICS there are two posters here, and just
   because one of them is sure that the problem isn't memory
   doesn't necessarily mean that the other one's problems
   are not due to memory??
  
  My node crashed/restarted again due to
  MessageCore/PacketSender freezing for 3 minutes. The
  problem appears to be with cpu usage, since my memory usage
  is basically plateauing when the crash occurs, though I
  suppose the two factors may not be necessarily entirely
  unrelated. My cpu load (ie. as reported by uptime) would
  sometimes rise pretty dramatically, with a 15-min load
  number hovering between 3 and 4, which brings my system to
  a crawl, and I guess this eventually freezes some threads
  in freenet, and then triggers the shutdown.
 
 Restarting the node fixes the cpu-load problem, even though
 the node is doing exactly the same stuff as before, at least
 from the user's perspective. So, clearly, the problem is not
 just slow and obsolete hardware as you suggest, but
 something else internal to the code, that grows out of
 control over time--over the course of dozens of hours.

I.e. memory usage. QED!

Memory usage was plateauing = memory usage was constantly at the
(low) maximum, and it was using 100% CPU in a vain attempt to
reclaim the last byte of memory. This is the most likely
explanation by far: Can you categorically rule it out via
checking freenet.loggc? You did add the wrapper.conf line I
mentioned?:
   
   Hrm. Upon closer inspection of my latest loggc,
   http://dennisn.dyndns.org/guest/pubstuff/loggc-freezes.log.bz2
   
   It appears that memory may in fact be an issue. But I don't think
   it's the memory limit itself. This last test I set my java memory
   limit to 250MB, and the logs show it never went much above 200MB.
   BUT, looking at the last few Full GC's, the time it took for them
   to complete increased rapidly near the end, and the last Full GC
   took over 3min!, which probably triggered the freeze.
   
   My system only has 384MB of physical ram and 400MB of swap in a
   swapfile (all of which is on Raid5/LVM :b). My current theory is
   that maybe the terribly long Full GCs are due to long disk-io
   times resulting from accessing the Raid5/LVM/swapfile. man java
   shows an interesting option -Xincgc, which seems to avoid Full
   GC's:
   
   
   Enable the incremental garbage collector. The incremental
   garbage collector, which is off by default, will reduce the
   occasional long garbage-collection pauses during program exe-
   cution. The incremental garbage collector will at times exe-
   cute concurrently with the program and during such times will
   reduce the processor capacity available to the program.
   
   
   I'll see if that has any effect. (Is there any way to make the jvm
   more forgiving, to allow it to handle longer-than-3min garbage
   collections?)
   
   Here is my vmstat, in 60s samples, without freenet running. So,
   clearly, with  10M of physical memory free, the swapfile will be
   used heavily :o.
   
   # vmstat -S M 60
   -memory-- ---swap-- -io --system--
   cpu swpd   free   buff  cache   si   sobibo
   incs us sy id wa 101  9 371790033
   155  471   192 19  2 74  5 101  5 3717900
   7921  442   179 20  4 66 11 101  8 371790
   071 5  441   114 68  3 25  3 101  8 37180
   005932  465   168 19  2 73  5
   
   Here is the same vmstat with freenet running:
   
196  4  5 4500   267   137  518   540 39  3
   38 20 196  4  6 490080   184  486   371
   36  2 54  8 196  7  6 46001839  486
   303 30  1 63  6 196 11  7 410088   109
   472   341 31  2 62  4
   
   More swap space is used, 

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Thursday 05 February 2009 00:43, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Feb 2009 17:26:40 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:13:59 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 27 January 2009 20:03, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:44:59 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > > > > > Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw
> > > > > > the box out the window and buy a new one. If you can't do that
> > > > > > wait for the db4o branch.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Or, more likely, throw freenet out the window :|.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of
> > > > > > issues the answer has been either that it is showing constant
> > > > > > Full GC's because it has slightly too little memory, or that
> > > > > > there is external CPU load. Are you absolutely completely
> > > > > > totally 100% sure that that is not
> > > > > > the problem? AFAICS there are two posters here, and just
> > > > > > because one of them is sure that the problem isn't memory
> > > > > > doesn't necessarily mean that the other one's problems are
> > > > > > not due to memory??
> > > > > 
> > > > > My node crashed/restarted again due to MessageCore/PacketSender
> > > > > freezing for 3 minutes. The problem appears to be with cpu
> > > > > usage, since my memory usage is basically plateauing when the
> > > > > crash occurs, though I suppose the two factors may not be
> > > > > necessarily entirely unrelated. My cpu load (ie. as reported by
> > > > > uptime) would sometimes rise pretty dramatically, with a 15-min
> > > > > load number hovering between 3 and 4, which brings my system to
> > > > > a crawl, and I guess this eventually "freezes" some threads in
> > > > > freenet, and then triggers the shutdown.
> > > > 
> > > > Restarting the node "fixes" the cpu-load problem, even though the
> > > > node is doing exactly the same stuff as before, at least from the
> > > > user's perspective. So, clearly, the problem is not just "slow and
> > > > obsolete" hardware as you suggest, but something else internal to
> > > > the code, that grows out of control over time--over the course of
> > > > dozens of hours.
> > > 
> > > I.e. memory usage. QED!
> > > 
> > > Memory usage was plateauing = memory usage was constantly at the
> > > (low) maximum, and it was using 100% CPU in a vain attempt to
> > > reclaim the last byte of memory. This is the most likely
> > > explanation by far: Can you categorically rule it out via checking
> > > freenet.loggc? You did add the wrapper.conf line I mentioned?:
> > 
> > Hrm. Upon closer inspection of my latest loggc,
> > http://dennisn.dyndns.org/guest/pubstuff/loggc-freezes.log.bz2
> > 
> > It appears that memory may in fact be an issue. But I don't think it's
> > the memory limit itself. This last test I set my java memory limit to
> > 250MB, and the logs show it never went much above 200MB. BUT, looking
> > at the last few Full GC's, the time it took for them to complete
> > increased rapidly near the end, and the last Full GC took over 3min!,
> > which probably triggered the "freeze".
> > 
> > My system only has 384MB of physical ram and 400MB of swap in a
> > swapfile (all of which is on Raid5/LVM :b). My current theory is that
> > maybe the terribly long Full GCs are due to long disk-io times
> > resulting from accessing the Raid5/LVM/swapfile. "man java" shows an
> > interesting option "-Xincgc", which seems to avoid Full GC's:
> > 
> > "
> > Enable the incremental garbage collector. The incremental
> > garbage collector, which is off by default, will reduce the
> > occasional long garbage-collection pauses during program exe-
> > cution. The incremental garbage collector will at times exe-
> > cute concurrently with the program and during such times will
> > reduce the processor capacity available to the program.
> > "
> > 
> > I'll see if that has any effect. (Is there any way to make the jvm
> > more forgiving, to allow it to handle longer-than-3min garbage
> > collections?)
> > 
> > Here is my vmstat, in 60s samples, without freenet running. So,
> > clearly, with < 10M of physical memory free, the swapfile will be used
> > heavily :o.
> > 
> > # vmstat -S M 60
> > -memory-- ---swap-- -io --system-- cpu
> > swpd   free   buff  cache   si   sobibo   incs us sy id wa
> >  101  9 371790033   155  471   192 19  2 74  5
> >  101  5 37179007921  442   179 20  4 66 11
> >  101  8 371790071 5  441   114 68  3 25  3
> >  101  8 37180005932  465   168 19  2 73  5
> > 
> > Here is the same vmstat with freenet running:
> > 
> >  196  4  5 4500   267   137  518   540 39  3 38 20
> >  196  4  6 490080   184  486   371 36  2 54  8
> >  196  7  6

Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Thursday 05 February 2009 00:43, Dennis Nezic wrote:
 On Mon, 2 Feb 2009 17:26:40 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
  On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:13:59 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
   On Tuesday 27 January 2009 20:03, Dennis Nezic wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:44:59 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
 On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
  Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw
  the box out the window and buy a new one. If you can't do that
  wait for the db4o branch.
 
 Or, more likely, throw freenet out the window :|.
 
  Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of
  issues the answer has been either that it is showing constant
  Full GC's because it has slightly too little memory, or that
  there is external CPU load. Are you absolutely completely
  totally 100% sure that that is not
  the problem? AFAICS there are two posters here, and just
  because one of them is sure that the problem isn't memory
  doesn't necessarily mean that the other one's problems are
  not due to memory??
 
 My node crashed/restarted again due to MessageCore/PacketSender
 freezing for 3 minutes. The problem appears to be with cpu
 usage, since my memory usage is basically plateauing when the
 crash occurs, though I suppose the two factors may not be
 necessarily entirely unrelated. My cpu load (ie. as reported by
 uptime) would sometimes rise pretty dramatically, with a 15-min
 load number hovering between 3 and 4, which brings my system to
 a crawl, and I guess this eventually freezes some threads in
 freenet, and then triggers the shutdown.

Restarting the node fixes the cpu-load problem, even though the
node is doing exactly the same stuff as before, at least from the
user's perspective. So, clearly, the problem is not just slow and
obsolete hardware as you suggest, but something else internal to
the code, that grows out of control over time--over the course of
dozens of hours.
   
   I.e. memory usage. QED!
   
   Memory usage was plateauing = memory usage was constantly at the
   (low) maximum, and it was using 100% CPU in a vain attempt to
   reclaim the last byte of memory. This is the most likely
   explanation by far: Can you categorically rule it out via checking
   freenet.loggc? You did add the wrapper.conf line I mentioned?:
  
  Hrm. Upon closer inspection of my latest loggc,
  http://dennisn.dyndns.org/guest/pubstuff/loggc-freezes.log.bz2
  
  It appears that memory may in fact be an issue. But I don't think it's
  the memory limit itself. This last test I set my java memory limit to
  250MB, and the logs show it never went much above 200MB. BUT, looking
  at the last few Full GC's, the time it took for them to complete
  increased rapidly near the end, and the last Full GC took over 3min!,
  which probably triggered the freeze.
  
  My system only has 384MB of physical ram and 400MB of swap in a
  swapfile (all of which is on Raid5/LVM :b). My current theory is that
  maybe the terribly long Full GCs are due to long disk-io times
  resulting from accessing the Raid5/LVM/swapfile. man java shows an
  interesting option -Xincgc, which seems to avoid Full GC's:
  
  
  Enable the incremental garbage collector. The incremental
  garbage collector, which is off by default, will reduce the
  occasional long garbage-collection pauses during program exe-
  cution. The incremental garbage collector will at times exe-
  cute concurrently with the program and during such times will
  reduce the processor capacity available to the program.
  
  
  I'll see if that has any effect. (Is there any way to make the jvm
  more forgiving, to allow it to handle longer-than-3min garbage
  collections?)
  
  Here is my vmstat, in 60s samples, without freenet running. So,
  clearly, with  10M of physical memory free, the swapfile will be used
  heavily :o.
  
  # vmstat -S M 60
  -memory-- ---swap-- -io --system-- cpu
  swpd   free   buff  cache   si   sobibo   incs us sy id wa
   101  9 371790033   155  471   192 19  2 74  5
   101  5 37179007921  442   179 20  4 66 11
   101  8 371790071 5  441   114 68  3 25  3
   101  8 37180005932  465   168 19  2 73  5
  
  Here is the same vmstat with freenet running:
  
   196  4  5 4500   267   137  518   540 39  3 38 20
   196  4  6 490080   184  486   371 36  2 54  8
   196  7  6 46001839  486   303 30  1 63  6
   196 11  7 410088   109  472   341 31  2 62  4
  
  More swap space is used, and more disk-io (bi and bo--blocks
  written/read from disk is almost doubled, cpu.us--time spent running
  non-kernel code has more than doubled, and 

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Mon, 2 Feb 2009 17:26:40 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:13:59 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > On Tuesday 27 January 2009 20:03, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > > On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:44:59 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > > > > Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw
> > > > > the box out the window and buy a new one. If you can't do that
> > > > > wait for the db4o branch.
> > > > 
> > > > Or, more likely, throw freenet out the window :|.
> > > > 
> > > > > Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of
> > > > > issues the answer has been either that it is showing constant
> > > > > Full GC's because it has slightly too little memory, or that
> > > > > there is external CPU load. Are you absolutely completely
> > > > > totally 100% sure that that is not
> > > > > the problem? AFAICS there are two posters here, and just
> > > > > because one of them is sure that the problem isn't memory
> > > > > doesn't necessarily mean that the other one's problems are
> > > > > not due to memory??
> > > > 
> > > > My node crashed/restarted again due to MessageCore/PacketSender
> > > > freezing for 3 minutes. The problem appears to be with cpu
> > > > usage, since my memory usage is basically plateauing when the
> > > > crash occurs, though I suppose the two factors may not be
> > > > necessarily entirely unrelated. My cpu load (ie. as reported by
> > > > uptime) would sometimes rise pretty dramatically, with a 15-min
> > > > load number hovering between 3 and 4, which brings my system to
> > > > a crawl, and I guess this eventually "freezes" some threads in
> > > > freenet, and then triggers the shutdown.
> > > 
> > > Restarting the node "fixes" the cpu-load problem, even though the
> > > node is doing exactly the same stuff as before, at least from the
> > > user's perspective. So, clearly, the problem is not just "slow and
> > > obsolete" hardware as you suggest, but something else internal to
> > > the code, that grows out of control over time--over the course of
> > > dozens of hours.
> > 
> > I.e. memory usage. QED!
> > 
> > Memory usage was plateauing = memory usage was constantly at the
> > (low) maximum, and it was using 100% CPU in a vain attempt to
> > reclaim the last byte of memory. This is the most likely
> > explanation by far: Can you categorically rule it out via checking
> > freenet.loggc? You did add the wrapper.conf line I mentioned?:
> 
> Hrm. Upon closer inspection of my latest loggc,
> http://dennisn.dyndns.org/guest/pubstuff/loggc-freezes.log.bz2
> 
> It appears that memory may in fact be an issue. But I don't think it's
> the memory limit itself. This last test I set my java memory limit to
> 250MB, and the logs show it never went much above 200MB. BUT, looking
> at the last few Full GC's, the time it took for them to complete
> increased rapidly near the end, and the last Full GC took over 3min!,
> which probably triggered the "freeze".
> 
> My system only has 384MB of physical ram and 400MB of swap in a
> swapfile (all of which is on Raid5/LVM :b). My current theory is that
> maybe the terribly long Full GCs are due to long disk-io times
> resulting from accessing the Raid5/LVM/swapfile. "man java" shows an
> interesting option "-Xincgc", which seems to avoid Full GC's:
> 
> "
> Enable the incremental garbage collector. The incremental
> garbage collector, which is off by default, will reduce the
> occasional long garbage-collection pauses during program exe-
> cution. The incremental garbage collector will at times exe-
> cute concurrently with the program and during such times will
> reduce the processor capacity available to the program.
> "
> 
> I'll see if that has any effect. (Is there any way to make the jvm
> more forgiving, to allow it to handle longer-than-3min garbage
> collections?)
> 
> Here is my vmstat, in 60s samples, without freenet running. So,
> clearly, with < 10M of physical memory free, the swapfile will be used
> heavily :o.
> 
> # vmstat -S M 60
> -memory-- ---swap-- -io --system-- cpu
> swpd   free   buff  cache   si   sobibo   incs us sy id wa
>  101  9 371790033   155  471   192 19  2 74  5
>  101  5 37179007921  442   179 20  4 66 11
>  101  8 371790071 5  441   114 68  3 25  3
>  101  8 37180005932  465   168 19  2 73  5
> 
> Here is the same vmstat with freenet running:
> 
>  196  4  5 4500   267   137  518   540 39  3 38 20
>  196  4  6 490080   184  486   371 36  2 54  8
>  196  7  6 46001839  486   303 30  1 63  6
>  196 11  7 410088   109  472   341 31  2 62  4
> 
> More swap space is used, and more disk-io (bi and bo--blocks
> written/read from disk is almost doubled, 

Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Mon, 2 Feb 2009 17:26:40 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
 On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:13:59 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
  On Tuesday 27 January 2009 20:03, Dennis Nezic wrote:
   On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:44:59 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
 Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw
 the box out the window and buy a new one. If you can't do that
 wait for the db4o branch.

Or, more likely, throw freenet out the window :|.

 Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of
 issues the answer has been either that it is showing constant
 Full GC's because it has slightly too little memory, or that
 there is external CPU load. Are you absolutely completely
 totally 100% sure that that is not
 the problem? AFAICS there are two posters here, and just
 because one of them is sure that the problem isn't memory
 doesn't necessarily mean that the other one's problems are
 not due to memory??

My node crashed/restarted again due to MessageCore/PacketSender
freezing for 3 minutes. The problem appears to be with cpu
usage, since my memory usage is basically plateauing when the
crash occurs, though I suppose the two factors may not be
necessarily entirely unrelated. My cpu load (ie. as reported by
uptime) would sometimes rise pretty dramatically, with a 15-min
load number hovering between 3 and 4, which brings my system to
a crawl, and I guess this eventually freezes some threads in
freenet, and then triggers the shutdown.
   
   Restarting the node fixes the cpu-load problem, even though the
   node is doing exactly the same stuff as before, at least from the
   user's perspective. So, clearly, the problem is not just slow and
   obsolete hardware as you suggest, but something else internal to
   the code, that grows out of control over time--over the course of
   dozens of hours.
  
  I.e. memory usage. QED!
  
  Memory usage was plateauing = memory usage was constantly at the
  (low) maximum, and it was using 100% CPU in a vain attempt to
  reclaim the last byte of memory. This is the most likely
  explanation by far: Can you categorically rule it out via checking
  freenet.loggc? You did add the wrapper.conf line I mentioned?:
 
 Hrm. Upon closer inspection of my latest loggc,
 http://dennisn.dyndns.org/guest/pubstuff/loggc-freezes.log.bz2
 
 It appears that memory may in fact be an issue. But I don't think it's
 the memory limit itself. This last test I set my java memory limit to
 250MB, and the logs show it never went much above 200MB. BUT, looking
 at the last few Full GC's, the time it took for them to complete
 increased rapidly near the end, and the last Full GC took over 3min!,
 which probably triggered the freeze.
 
 My system only has 384MB of physical ram and 400MB of swap in a
 swapfile (all of which is on Raid5/LVM :b). My current theory is that
 maybe the terribly long Full GCs are due to long disk-io times
 resulting from accessing the Raid5/LVM/swapfile. man java shows an
 interesting option -Xincgc, which seems to avoid Full GC's:
 
 
 Enable the incremental garbage collector. The incremental
 garbage collector, which is off by default, will reduce the
 occasional long garbage-collection pauses during program exe-
 cution. The incremental garbage collector will at times exe-
 cute concurrently with the program and during such times will
 reduce the processor capacity available to the program.
 
 
 I'll see if that has any effect. (Is there any way to make the jvm
 more forgiving, to allow it to handle longer-than-3min garbage
 collections?)
 
 Here is my vmstat, in 60s samples, without freenet running. So,
 clearly, with  10M of physical memory free, the swapfile will be used
 heavily :o.
 
 # vmstat -S M 60
 -memory-- ---swap-- -io --system-- cpu
 swpd   free   buff  cache   si   sobibo   incs us sy id wa
  101  9 371790033   155  471   192 19  2 74  5
  101  5 37179007921  442   179 20  4 66 11
  101  8 371790071 5  441   114 68  3 25  3
  101  8 37180005932  465   168 19  2 73  5
 
 Here is the same vmstat with freenet running:
 
  196  4  5 4500   267   137  518   540 39  3 38 20
  196  4  6 490080   184  486   371 36  2 54  8
  196  7  6 46001839  486   303 30  1 63  6
  196 11  7 410088   109  472   341 31  2 62  4
 
 More swap space is used, and more disk-io (bi and bo--blocks
 written/read from disk is almost doubled, cpu.us--time spent running
 non-kernel code has more than doubled, and cpu.wa--time spent waiting
 for io--the last column, is somewhat increas(ing)).
 
 My fingers are crossed with this -Xincgc option.

It didn't appear to have 

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:13:59 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Tuesday 27 January 2009 20:03, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:44:59 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > > On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > > > Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw
> > > > the box out the window and buy a new one. If you can't do that
> > > > wait for the db4o branch.
> > > 
> > > Or, more likely, throw freenet out the window :|.
> > > 
> > > > Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of issues
> > > > the answer has been either that it is showing constant Full
> > > > GC's because it has slightly too little memory, or that there
> > > > is external CPU load. Are you absolutely completely totally
> > > > 100% sure that that is not the problem?
> > > > AFAICS there are two posters here, and just because one of them
> > > > is sure that the problem isn't memory doesn't necessarily mean
> > > > that the other one's problems are not due to memory??
> > > 
> > > My node crashed/restarted again due to MessageCore/PacketSender
> > > freezing for 3 minutes. The problem appears to be with cpu usage,
> > > since my memory usage is basically plateauing when the crash
> > > occurs, though I suppose the two factors may not be necessarily
> > > entirely unrelated. My cpu load (ie. as reported by uptime) would
> > > sometimes rise pretty dramatically, with a 15-min load number
> > > hovering between 3 and 4, which brings my system to a crawl, and
> > > I guess this eventually "freezes" some threads in freenet, and
> > > then triggers the shutdown.
> > 
> > Restarting the node "fixes" the cpu-load problem, even though the
> > node is doing exactly the same stuff as before, at least from the
> > user's perspective. So, clearly, the problem is not just "slow and
> > obsolete" hardware as you suggest, but something else internal to
> > the code, that grows out of control over time--over the course of
> > dozens of hours.
> 
> I.e. memory usage. QED!
> 
> Memory usage was plateauing = memory usage was constantly at the
> (low) maximum, and it was using 100% CPU in a vain attempt to reclaim
> the last byte of memory. This is the most likely explanation by far:
> Can you categorically rule it out via checking freenet.loggc? You did
> add the wrapper.conf line I mentioned?:

Hrm. Upon closer inspection of my latest loggc,
http://dennisn.dyndns.org/guest/pubstuff/loggc-freezes.log.bz2

It appears that memory may in fact be an issue. But I don't think it's
the memory limit itself. This last test I set my java memory limit to
250MB, and the logs show it never went much above 200MB. BUT, looking
at the last few Full GC's, the time it took for them to complete
increased rapidly near the end, and the last Full GC took over 3min!,
which probably triggered the "freeze".

My system only has 384MB of physical ram and 400MB of swap in a
swapfile (all of which is on Raid5/LVM :b). My current theory is that
maybe the terribly long Full GCs are due to long disk-io times
resulting from accessing the Raid5/LVM/swapfile. "man java" shows an
interesting option "-Xincgc", which seems to avoid Full GC's:

"
Enable the incremental garbage collector. The incremental
garbage collector, which is off by default, will reduce the
occasional long garbage-collection pauses during program exe-
cution. The incremental garbage collector will at times exe-
cute concurrently with the program and during such times will
reduce the processor capacity available to the program.
"

I'll see if that has any effect. (Is there any way to make the jvm more
forgiving, to allow it to handle longer-than-3min garbage collections?)

Here is my vmstat, in 60s samples, without freenet running. So,
clearly, with < 10M of physical memory free, the swapfile will be used
heavily :o.

# vmstat -S M 60
-memory-- ---swap-- -io --system-- cpu
swpd   free   buff  cache   si   sobibo   incs us sy id wa
 101  9 371790033   155  471   192 19  2 74  5
 101  5 37179007921  442   179 20  4 66 11
 101  8 371790071 5  441   114 68  3 25  3
 101  8 37180005932  465   168 19  2 73  5

Here is the same vmstat with freenet running:

 196  4  5 4500   267   137  518   540 39  3 38 20
 196  4  6 490080   184  486   371 36  2 54  8
 196  7  6 46001839  486   303 30  1 63  6
 196 11  7 410088   109  472   341 31  2 62  4

More swap space is used, and more disk-io (bi and bo--blocks
written/read from disk is almost doubled, cpu.us--time spent running
non-kernel code has more than doubled, and cpu.wa--time spent waiting
for io--the last column, is somewhat increas(ing)).

My fingers are crossed with this -Xincgc option.

Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:13:59 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
 On Tuesday 27 January 2009 20:03, Dennis Nezic wrote:
  On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:44:59 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
   On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw
the box out the window and buy a new one. If you can't do that
wait for the db4o branch.
   
   Or, more likely, throw freenet out the window :|.
   
Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of issues
the answer has been either that it is showing constant Full
GC's because it has slightly too little memory, or that there
is external CPU load. Are you absolutely completely totally
100% sure that that is not the problem?
AFAICS there are two posters here, and just because one of them
is sure that the problem isn't memory doesn't necessarily mean
that the other one's problems are not due to memory??
   
   My node crashed/restarted again due to MessageCore/PacketSender
   freezing for 3 minutes. The problem appears to be with cpu usage,
   since my memory usage is basically plateauing when the crash
   occurs, though I suppose the two factors may not be necessarily
   entirely unrelated. My cpu load (ie. as reported by uptime) would
   sometimes rise pretty dramatically, with a 15-min load number
   hovering between 3 and 4, which brings my system to a crawl, and
   I guess this eventually freezes some threads in freenet, and
   then triggers the shutdown.
  
  Restarting the node fixes the cpu-load problem, even though the
  node is doing exactly the same stuff as before, at least from the
  user's perspective. So, clearly, the problem is not just slow and
  obsolete hardware as you suggest, but something else internal to
  the code, that grows out of control over time--over the course of
  dozens of hours.
 
 I.e. memory usage. QED!
 
 Memory usage was plateauing = memory usage was constantly at the
 (low) maximum, and it was using 100% CPU in a vain attempt to reclaim
 the last byte of memory. This is the most likely explanation by far:
 Can you categorically rule it out via checking freenet.loggc? You did
 add the wrapper.conf line I mentioned?:

Hrm. Upon closer inspection of my latest loggc,
http://dennisn.dyndns.org/guest/pubstuff/loggc-freezes.log.bz2

It appears that memory may in fact be an issue. But I don't think it's
the memory limit itself. This last test I set my java memory limit to
250MB, and the logs show it never went much above 200MB. BUT, looking
at the last few Full GC's, the time it took for them to complete
increased rapidly near the end, and the last Full GC took over 3min!,
which probably triggered the freeze.

My system only has 384MB of physical ram and 400MB of swap in a
swapfile (all of which is on Raid5/LVM :b). My current theory is that
maybe the terribly long Full GCs are due to long disk-io times
resulting from accessing the Raid5/LVM/swapfile. man java shows an
interesting option -Xincgc, which seems to avoid Full GC's:


Enable the incremental garbage collector. The incremental
garbage collector, which is off by default, will reduce the
occasional long garbage-collection pauses during program exe-
cution. The incremental garbage collector will at times exe-
cute concurrently with the program and during such times will
reduce the processor capacity available to the program.


I'll see if that has any effect. (Is there any way to make the jvm more
forgiving, to allow it to handle longer-than-3min garbage collections?)

Here is my vmstat, in 60s samples, without freenet running. So,
clearly, with  10M of physical memory free, the swapfile will be used
heavily :o.

# vmstat -S M 60
-memory-- ---swap-- -io --system-- cpu
swpd   free   buff  cache   si   sobibo   incs us sy id wa
 101  9 371790033   155  471   192 19  2 74  5
 101  5 37179007921  442   179 20  4 66 11
 101  8 371790071 5  441   114 68  3 25  3
 101  8 37180005932  465   168 19  2 73  5

Here is the same vmstat with freenet running:

 196  4  5 4500   267   137  518   540 39  3 38 20
 196  4  6 490080   184  486   371 36  2 54  8
 196  7  6 46001839  486   303 30  1 63  6
 196 11  7 410088   109  472   341 31  2 62  4

More swap space is used, and more disk-io (bi and bo--blocks
written/read from disk is almost doubled, cpu.us--time spent running
non-kernel code has more than doubled, and cpu.wa--time spent waiting
for io--the last column, is somewhat increas(ing)).

My fingers are crossed with this -Xincgc option.
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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Tuesday 27 January 2009 20:03, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:44:59 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > > Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw the box
> > > out the window and buy a new one. If you can't do that wait for the
> > > db4o branch.
> > 
> > Or, more likely, throw freenet out the window :|.
> > 
> > > Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of issues the
> > > answer has been either that it is showing constant Full GC's because
> > > it has slightly too little memory, or that there is external CPU
> > > load. Are you absolutely completely totally
> > > 100% sure that that is not the problem?
> > > AFAICS there are two posters here, and just because one of them is
> > > sure that the problem isn't memory doesn't necessarily mean that the
> > > other one's problems are not due to memory??
> > 
> > My node crashed/restarted again due to MessageCore/PacketSender
> > freezing for 3 minutes. The problem appears to be with cpu usage,
> > since my memory usage is basically plateauing when the crash occurs,
> > though I suppose the two factors may not be necessarily entirely
> > unrelated. My cpu load (ie. as reported by uptime) would sometimes
> > rise pretty dramatically, with a 15-min load number hovering between
> > 3 and 4, which brings my system to a crawl, and I guess this
> > eventually "freezes" some threads in freenet, and then triggers the
> > shutdown.
> 
> Restarting the node "fixes" the cpu-load problem, even though the node
> is doing exactly the same stuff as before, at least from the user's
> perspective. So, clearly, the problem is not just "slow and obsolete"
> hardware as you suggest, but something else internal to the code, that
> grows out of control over time--over the course of dozens of hours.

I.e. memory usage. QED!

Memory usage was plateauing = memory usage was constantly at the (low) 
maximum, and it was using 100% CPU in a vain attempt to reclaim the last byte 
of memory. This is the most likely explanation by far: Can you categorically 
rule it out via checking freenet.loggc? You did add the wrapper.conf line I 
mentioned?:

wrapper.java.additional.3=-Xloggc:freenet.loggc

If it is a memory problem, db4o will probably solve it, however the db4o 
branch does do somewhat more disk access, which might conceivably be a 
problem on very old hardware.
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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:44:59 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw the box
> > out the window and buy a new one. If you can't do that wait for the
> > db4o branch.
> 
> Or, more likely, throw freenet out the window :|.
> 
> > Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of issues the
> > answer has been either that it is showing constant Full GC's because
> > it has slightly too little memory, or that there is external CPU
> > load. Are you absolutely completely totally
> > 100% sure that that is not the problem?
> > AFAICS there are two posters here, and just because one of them is
> > sure that the problem isn't memory doesn't necessarily mean that the
> > other one's problems are not due to memory??
> 
> My node crashed/restarted again due to MessageCore/PacketSender
> freezing for 3 minutes. The problem appears to be with cpu usage,
> since my memory usage is basically plateauing when the crash occurs,
> though I suppose the two factors may not be necessarily entirely
> unrelated. My cpu load (ie. as reported by uptime) would sometimes
> rise pretty dramatically, with a 15-min load number hovering between
> 3 and 4, which brings my system to a crawl, and I guess this
> eventually "freezes" some threads in freenet, and then triggers the
> shutdown.

Restarting the node "fixes" the cpu-load problem, even though the node
is doing exactly the same stuff as before, at least from the user's
perspective. So, clearly, the problem is not just "slow and obsolete"
hardware as you suggest, but something else internal to the code, that
grows out of control over time--over the course of dozens of hours.

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw the box
> out the window and buy a new one. If you can't do that wait for the
> db4o branch.

Or, more likely, throw freenet out the window :|.

> Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of issues the
> answer has been either that it is showing constant Full GC's because
> it has slightly too little memory, or that there is external CPU
> load. Are you absolutely completely totally
> 100% sure that that is not the problem?
> AFAICS there are two posters here, and just because one of them is
> sure that the problem isn't memory doesn't necessarily mean that the
> other one's problems are not due to memory??

My node crashed/restarted again due to MessageCore/PacketSender
freezing for 3 minutes. The problem appears to be with cpu usage, since
my memory usage is basically plateauing when the crash occurs, though I
suppose the two factors may not be necessarily entirely unrelated. My
cpu load (ie. as reported by uptime) would sometimes rise pretty
dramatically, with a 15-min load number hovering between 3 and 4, which
brings my system to a crawl, and I guess this eventually "freezes" some
threads in freenet, and then triggers the shutdown.

In other words, it's still pretty unusable for my "obsolete" 1GHz with
200MB ram.

I would really, seriously, encourage testing, if not actual
development, on older hardware (or through some kind of emulation
layer). It really should be capable of running on a 486!--even if the
performance might not be as great, it should at least be functional and
stable!--ie. able to throttle it's cpu/memory usage accordingly. :|.

Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
 Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw the box
 out the window and buy a new one. If you can't do that wait for the
 db4o branch.

Or, more likely, throw freenet out the window :|.

 Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of issues the
 answer has been either that it is showing constant Full GC's because
 it has slightly too little memory, or that there is external CPU
 load. Are you absolutely completely totally
 100% sure that that is not the problem?
 AFAICS there are two posters here, and just because one of them is
 sure that the problem isn't memory doesn't necessarily mean that the
 other one's problems are not due to memory??

My node crashed/restarted again due to MessageCore/PacketSender
freezing for 3 minutes. The problem appears to be with cpu usage, since
my memory usage is basically plateauing when the crash occurs, though I
suppose the two factors may not be necessarily entirely unrelated. My
cpu load (ie. as reported by uptime) would sometimes rise pretty
dramatically, with a 15-min load number hovering between 3 and 4, which
brings my system to a crawl, and I guess this eventually freezes some
threads in freenet, and then triggers the shutdown.

In other words, it's still pretty unusable for my obsolete 1GHz with
200MB ram.

I would really, seriously, encourage testing, if not actual
development, on older hardware (or through some kind of emulation
layer). It really should be capable of running on a 486!--even if the
performance might not be as great, it should at least be functional and
stable!--ie. able to throttle it's cpu/memory usage accordingly. :|.
___
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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:44:59 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
 On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
  Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw the box
  out the window and buy a new one. If you can't do that wait for the
  db4o branch.
 
 Or, more likely, throw freenet out the window :|.
 
  Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of issues the
  answer has been either that it is showing constant Full GC's because
  it has slightly too little memory, or that there is external CPU
  load. Are you absolutely completely totally
  100% sure that that is not the problem?
  AFAICS there are two posters here, and just because one of them is
  sure that the problem isn't memory doesn't necessarily mean that the
  other one's problems are not due to memory??
 
 My node crashed/restarted again due to MessageCore/PacketSender
 freezing for 3 minutes. The problem appears to be with cpu usage,
 since my memory usage is basically plateauing when the crash occurs,
 though I suppose the two factors may not be necessarily entirely
 unrelated. My cpu load (ie. as reported by uptime) would sometimes
 rise pretty dramatically, with a 15-min load number hovering between
 3 and 4, which brings my system to a crawl, and I guess this
 eventually freezes some threads in freenet, and then triggers the
 shutdown.

Restarting the node fixes the cpu-load problem, even though the node
is doing exactly the same stuff as before, at least from the user's
perspective. So, clearly, the problem is not just slow and obsolete
hardware as you suggest, but something else internal to the code, that
grows out of control over time--over the course of dozens of hours.
___
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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Tuesday 27 January 2009 20:03, Dennis Nezic wrote:
 On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:44:59 -0500, Dennis Nezic wrote:
  On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
   Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw the box
   out the window and buy a new one. If you can't do that wait for the
   db4o branch.
  
  Or, more likely, throw freenet out the window :|.
  
   Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of issues the
   answer has been either that it is showing constant Full GC's because
   it has slightly too little memory, or that there is external CPU
   load. Are you absolutely completely totally
   100% sure that that is not the problem?
   AFAICS there are two posters here, and just because one of them is
   sure that the problem isn't memory doesn't necessarily mean that the
   other one's problems are not due to memory??
  
  My node crashed/restarted again due to MessageCore/PacketSender
  freezing for 3 minutes. The problem appears to be with cpu usage,
  since my memory usage is basically plateauing when the crash occurs,
  though I suppose the two factors may not be necessarily entirely
  unrelated. My cpu load (ie. as reported by uptime) would sometimes
  rise pretty dramatically, with a 15-min load number hovering between
  3 and 4, which brings my system to a crawl, and I guess this
  eventually freezes some threads in freenet, and then triggers the
  shutdown.
 
 Restarting the node fixes the cpu-load problem, even though the node
 is doing exactly the same stuff as before, at least from the user's
 perspective. So, clearly, the problem is not just slow and obsolete
 hardware as you suggest, but something else internal to the code, that
 grows out of control over time--over the course of dozens of hours.

I.e. memory usage. QED!

Memory usage was plateauing = memory usage was constantly at the (low) 
maximum, and it was using 100% CPU in a vain attempt to reclaim the last byte 
of memory. This is the most likely explanation by far: Can you categorically 
rule it out via checking freenet.loggc? You did add the wrapper.conf line I 
mentioned?:

wrapper.java.additional.3=-Xloggc:freenet.loggc

If it is a memory problem, db4o will probably solve it, however the db4o 
branch does do somewhat more disk access, which might conceivably be a 
problem on very old hardware.


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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Thursday 22 January 2009 12:59, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Thursday 22 January 2009 03:58, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > > > My main point in my last post was a suggestion to have the error
> > > > message more informative. As another example, have it output it's
> > > > memory/cpu usage before it shuts itself down, in the case of the
> > > > deadlock I mentioned.
> > > 
> > > How do we get CPU usage from java? We can say how much memory is in
> > > use, how many threads are running, get a thread dump...
> > 
> > Well--if the node knows enough to say that it is in a deadlock, and if
> > it still has enough control over itself to be able to shut itself down
> > cleanly, surely there is something it can do to investigate itself
> > before doing so? Currently the messages do not appear to be helping us
> > at all. Before shutting itself down in such deadlocks/freezes, it should
> > at least output a thread-dump, and it's memory stats, if not a
> > deeper/clearer analysis of what in particular, within MessageCore or
> > PacketSender, is causing the problem.
> 
> I agree we could do a stack dump, I thought we did.

We do in fact do a thread/stack dump according to the code, assuming we're 
running under the wrapper.
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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Thursday 22 January 2009 03:58, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > > My main point in my last post was a suggestion to have the error
> > > message more informative. As another example, have it output it's
> > > memory/cpu usage before it shuts itself down, in the case of the
> > > deadlock I mentioned.
> > 
> > How do we get CPU usage from java? We can say how much memory is in
> > use, how many threads are running, get a thread dump...
> 
> Well--if the node knows enough to say that it is in a deadlock, and if
> it still has enough control over itself to be able to shut itself down
> cleanly, surely there is something it can do to investigate itself
> before doing so? Currently the messages do not appear to be helping us
> at all. Before shutting itself down in such deadlocks/freezes, it should
> at least output a thread-dump, and it's memory stats, if not a
> deeper/clearer analysis of what in particular, within MessageCore or
> PacketSender, is causing the problem.

I agree we could do a stack dump, I thought we did.
> 
> > > Also, why is there such a high requirement?? Why on earth is 100MB
> > > memory not enough? If it can't allocate any more memory, it should
> > > wait or throttle itself. Restricting freenet to the latest
> > > unecessary super-computers is dumb. (It really should be developed
> > > on a 486.)
> > 
> > Because it has a lot of stuff to track.
> 
> :|. A megabyte is pretty big. A hundred megabytes is huge. How much
> data (CHKs) does it really need to hold in memory. Though we're
> digressing a little since I don't believe memory is a problem with me
> in this particular case. (I have it set to 200MB now.)

We do not hold CHKs in memory except when we are transferring data. However, 
we do need to track a vast number of them (even with a block size of 32K).
> 
> > People propose rewriting Freenet in kernel-mode C with 1KB blocks
> > every so often, as an example. That means 32X more disk seeks, 32X
> > bigger bloom filter, and so on; it's not feasible.
> 
> Why 1K blocks? (A c implementation would be great though! :)

IMHO it would not achieve the order of magnitude improvement that everyone 
assumes it would. To take an analogy, a number field sieve is vastly faster 
than trying to factor every even number, even if the former is coded in java 
and the latter in assembler. "It's the algorithms, stupid!". Also java *does* 
have some significant performance advantages in some areas (memory 
management, function calls), as well as disadvantages in other areas.
> 
> > Memory requirements depend on two things:
> > - The datastore. The bdbje datastore uses a significant amount of
> > memory, with significant churn, inside the JVM's allocated space; the
> > salted hash datastore uses very little memory inside the memory
> > limits but uses 1/2048th of the store outside of the limits as a
> > memory mapped bloom filter to limit I/O.
> > - Client layer activity. Lots of large downloads use lots of memory,
> > uploads use even more (because of inefficient architecture).
> 
> Why are large file transfers worse than small file transfers? (And why
> are uploads any different than downloads, aside from the fact that we
> have to initially package the file for distribution.) Aren't transfers
> done in segments? For example, why can't it work on transferring 10MB
> segments at a time--that is, restricting it's memory usage per file
> transfer to 10MB (or whatever similarly effective yet small size)--and
> thus treating 2000MB files the same as 20MB files... both sailing along
> 10MB at a time?

Because that's not the most effective way to fetch blocks from the network! To 
some degree we do fetch segment-wise in the db4o branch as an optimisation, 
but we still need to track every key. Even on the db4o branch, we need to be 
able to quickly determine "Am I interested in key K?", if it is offered to 
us, if another node fetches it through us, etc. On the db4o branch we use 
bloom filters, approx 3.7MB per 10GB queued data; we keep a bloom filter in 
RAM for every download, and use that to quickly determine whether a block is 
of interest. This greatly reduces the number of database queries (= many disk 
seeks) we have to do, since the actual details of the downloads are not kept 
in RAM on the db4o branch.

With regards to uploads, the current code (including on the db4o branch) for 
uploads is somewhat less efficient than the code for downloads. It's 
something that I may or may not resolve before db4o is merged.
> 
> > > When is the db4o stuff expected to be released?
> > 
> > When I get around to it. :| The immediate todo:
> > - Release 1203
> > - Implement basic progress screen.
> > - Get db4o sorted and merged.
> > - Sort out plugins (IMHO important for 0.8).
> > - Auto-update (and update.* update) the seednodes file.
> > - Maybe new metadata (IMHO the assumptions underlying this item may
> > no longer be valid...)
> > > 
> > > > Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of issues
> > > > 

Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Thursday 22 January 2009 03:58, Dennis Nezic wrote:
   My main point in my last post was a suggestion to have the error
   message more informative. As another example, have it output it's
   memory/cpu usage before it shuts itself down, in the case of the
   deadlock I mentioned.
  
  How do we get CPU usage from java? We can say how much memory is in
  use, how many threads are running, get a thread dump...
 
 Well--if the node knows enough to say that it is in a deadlock, and if
 it still has enough control over itself to be able to shut itself down
 cleanly, surely there is something it can do to investigate itself
 before doing so? Currently the messages do not appear to be helping us
 at all. Before shutting itself down in such deadlocks/freezes, it should
 at least output a thread-dump, and it's memory stats, if not a
 deeper/clearer analysis of what in particular, within MessageCore or
 PacketSender, is causing the problem.

I agree we could do a stack dump, I thought we did.
 
   Also, why is there such a high requirement?? Why on earth is 100MB
   memory not enough? If it can't allocate any more memory, it should
   wait or throttle itself. Restricting freenet to the latest
   unecessary super-computers is dumb. (It really should be developed
   on a 486.)
  
  Because it has a lot of stuff to track.
 
 :|. A megabyte is pretty big. A hundred megabytes is huge. How much
 data (CHKs) does it really need to hold in memory. Though we're
 digressing a little since I don't believe memory is a problem with me
 in this particular case. (I have it set to 200MB now.)

We do not hold CHKs in memory except when we are transferring data. However, 
we do need to track a vast number of them (even with a block size of 32K).
 
  People propose rewriting Freenet in kernel-mode C with 1KB blocks
  every so often, as an example. That means 32X more disk seeks, 32X
  bigger bloom filter, and so on; it's not feasible.
 
 Why 1K blocks? (A c implementation would be great though! :)

IMHO it would not achieve the order of magnitude improvement that everyone 
assumes it would. To take an analogy, a number field sieve is vastly faster 
than trying to factor every even number, even if the former is coded in java 
and the latter in assembler. It's the algorithms, stupid!. Also java *does* 
have some significant performance advantages in some areas (memory 
management, function calls), as well as disadvantages in other areas.
 
  Memory requirements depend on two things:
  - The datastore. The bdbje datastore uses a significant amount of
  memory, with significant churn, inside the JVM's allocated space; the
  salted hash datastore uses very little memory inside the memory
  limits but uses 1/2048th of the store outside of the limits as a
  memory mapped bloom filter to limit I/O.
  - Client layer activity. Lots of large downloads use lots of memory,
  uploads use even more (because of inefficient architecture).
 
 Why are large file transfers worse than small file transfers? (And why
 are uploads any different than downloads, aside from the fact that we
 have to initially package the file for distribution.) Aren't transfers
 done in segments? For example, why can't it work on transferring 10MB
 segments at a time--that is, restricting it's memory usage per file
 transfer to 10MB (or whatever similarly effective yet small size)--and
 thus treating 2000MB files the same as 20MB files... both sailing along
 10MB at a time?

Because that's not the most effective way to fetch blocks from the network! To 
some degree we do fetch segment-wise in the db4o branch as an optimisation, 
but we still need to track every key. Even on the db4o branch, we need to be 
able to quickly determine Am I interested in key K?, if it is offered to 
us, if another node fetches it through us, etc. On the db4o branch we use 
bloom filters, approx 3.7MB per 10GB queued data; we keep a bloom filter in 
RAM for every download, and use that to quickly determine whether a block is 
of interest. This greatly reduces the number of database queries (= many disk 
seeks) we have to do, since the actual details of the downloads are not kept 
in RAM on the db4o branch.

With regards to uploads, the current code (including on the db4o branch) for 
uploads is somewhat less efficient than the code for downloads. It's 
something that I may or may not resolve before db4o is merged.
 
   When is the db4o stuff expected to be released?
  
  When I get around to it. :| The immediate todo:
  - Release 1203
  - Implement basic progress screen.
  - Get db4o sorted and merged.
  - Sort out plugins (IMHO important for 0.8).
  - Auto-update (and update.* update) the seednodes file.
  - Maybe new metadata (IMHO the assumptions underlying this item may
  no longer be valid...)
   
Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of issues
the answer has been either that it is showing constant Full GC's
because it has slightly too little memory, or that 

Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Thursday 22 January 2009 12:59, Matthew Toseland wrote:
 On Thursday 22 January 2009 03:58, Dennis Nezic wrote:
My main point in my last post was a suggestion to have the error
message more informative. As another example, have it output it's
memory/cpu usage before it shuts itself down, in the case of the
deadlock I mentioned.
   
   How do we get CPU usage from java? We can say how much memory is in
   use, how many threads are running, get a thread dump...
  
  Well--if the node knows enough to say that it is in a deadlock, and if
  it still has enough control over itself to be able to shut itself down
  cleanly, surely there is something it can do to investigate itself
  before doing so? Currently the messages do not appear to be helping us
  at all. Before shutting itself down in such deadlocks/freezes, it should
  at least output a thread-dump, and it's memory stats, if not a
  deeper/clearer analysis of what in particular, within MessageCore or
  PacketSender, is causing the problem.
 
 I agree we could do a stack dump, I thought we did.

We do in fact do a thread/stack dump according to the code, assuming we're 
running under the wrapper.


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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:33:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Wednesday 21 January 2009 18:16, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 21 January 2009 03:01, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:52:26 +0100, bqz69 wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > Now my freenet is running on my fit-pc - has been running
> > > > > > > properly the last week.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I did following (I am using ubuntu 8.04):
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Created a text file /etc/cron.allow containing my
> > > > > > > username.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That might explain why your wrapper's wrapper (your
> > > > > > crontab-run script) wasn't working. Though you don't have
> > > > > > to manually specify a cron.allow file... you can just
> > > > > > delete it, and it allows everyone by default, unless
> > > > > > they're mentioned in cron.deny.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. Inserted following line in /etc/crontab:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > (Probably not necessary)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This one, the system-cron file, is necessary. The second
> > > > > > one is useless, I believe. Cron never checks
> > > > > > ~/.crontab--only /etc/crontab, and /var/spool/cron/crontabs,
> > > > > > for individual users.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 3. Created a text file ~/.crontab  with the following
> > > > > > > line:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The freenet system seems however to very sensitive, and
> > > > > > > stops when I do some other work, and then I have to
> > > > > > > restart freenet, but as a mini-freenet server just
> > > > > > > serving data, it seems to work well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Interesting. And bad! :). How sure are you that the crashes
> > > > > > occur when you're doing other work on the system?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Ok, not so sure, just tried again and freenet did not stop
> > > > > this time.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > (Is it wishful thinking? ;).
> > > > > > What is the "nice" value for freenet's java process?
> > > > > 
> > > > > It is 10
> > > > > 
> > > > > > (You can check
> > > > > > it via the "top" command.) I had mine at a brutal 20 (the
> > > > > > lowest priority of all my processes on my system), and toad
> > > > > > suggested that this may have been the cause of my crashes.
> > > > > > I have raised it's priority now, and will continue to test.
> > > > > > Though I am skeptical. Crashing should not happen. Ever!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks everybody so far, for your help
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "So far". I'm sure we haven't heard the end of this one :).
> > > > 
> > > > Mine just "crashed" recently. Actually, it shuts itself down
> > > > pretty cleanly, after outputting the following age-old messages:
> > > > 
> > > > Restarting node: PacketSender froze for 3 minutes!
> > > > Exiting on deadlock.
> > > > Restarting node: MessageCore froze for 3 minutes!
> > > > (USM deadlock)
> > > > Goodbye.
> > > > 
> > > > In general, I do notice that freenet bogs down my 1.2GHz machine
> > > > quite a bit. Could that be the cause of these freezes/deadlocks?
> > > > Can't it be less cpu/mem intensive? If I recall correctly, it
> > > > does run smoothly for the first few hours, then slowly grinds
> > > > itself (apparently) and my box to an unbearable crawl.
> > > > 
> > > > Maybe we could make those messages more informative? For
> > > > example, before having the node shut itself down, have it dump
> > > > it's list of threads or queues or whatever.
> > > 
> > > Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw the
> > > box out the window and buy a new one. If you can't do that wait
> > > for the db4o branch.
> > 
> > My main point in my last post was a suggestion to have the error
> > message more informative. As another example, have it output it's
> > memory/cpu usage before it shuts itself down, in the case of the
> > deadlock I mentioned.
> 
> How do we get CPU usage from java? We can say how much memory is in
> use, how many threads are running, get a thread dump...

Well--if the node knows enough to say that it is in a deadlock, and if
it still has enough control over itself to be able to shut itself down
cleanly, surely there is something it can do to investigate itself
before doing so? Currently the messages do not appear to be helping us
at all. Before shutting itself down in such deadlocks/freezes, it should
at least output a thread-dump, and it's memory stats, if not a
deeper/clearer analysis of what in particular, within MessageCore or
PacketSender, is causing the problem.

> > 
> > Also, why is there such a high requirement?? Why on earth is 100MB
> > memory not enough? If it can't allocate any more memory, it should
> > wait or throttle itself. Restricting freenet to the latest
> > unecessary super-computers is dumb. (It really should be developed
> > on a 486.)
> 
> 

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Wednesday 21 January 2009 18:16, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > On Wednesday 21 January 2009 03:01, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > > On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:52:26 +0100, bqz69 wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > > Now my freenet is running on my fit-pc - has been running
> > > > > > properly the last week.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I did following (I am using ubuntu 8.04):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Created a text file /etc/cron.allow containing my username.
> > > > >
> > > > > That might explain why your wrapper's wrapper (your crontab-run
> > > > > script) wasn't working. Though you don't have to manually
> > > > > specify a cron.allow file... you can just delete it, and it
> > > > > allows everyone by default, unless they're mentioned in
> > > > > cron.deny.
> > > > >
> > > > > > 2. Inserted following line in /etc/crontab:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (Probably not necessary)
> > > > >
> > > > > This one, the system-cron file, is necessary. The second one is
> > > > > useless, I believe. Cron never checks
> > > > > ~/.crontab--only /etc/crontab, and /var/spool/cron/crontabs,
> > > > > for individual users.
> > > > >
> > > > > > 3. Created a text file ~/.crontab  with the following line:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The freenet system seems however to very sensitive, and stops
> > > > > > when I do some other work, and then I have to restart freenet,
> > > > > > but as a mini-freenet server just serving data, it seems to
> > > > > > work well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Interesting. And bad! :). How sure are you that the crashes
> > > > > occur when you're doing other work on the system?
> > > > 
> > > > Ok, not so sure, just tried again and freenet did not stop this
> > > > time.
> > > > 
> > > > > (Is it wishful thinking? ;).
> > > > > What is the "nice" value for freenet's java process?
> > > > 
> > > > It is 10
> > > > 
> > > > > (You can check
> > > > > it via the "top" command.) I had mine at a brutal 20 (the lowest
> > > > > priority of all my processes on my system), and toad suggested
> > > > > that this may have been the cause of my crashes. I have raised
> > > > > it's priority now, and will continue to test. Though I am
> > > > > skeptical. Crashing should not happen. Ever!
> > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks everybody so far, for your help
> > > > >
> > > > > "So far". I'm sure we haven't heard the end of this one :).
> > > 
> > > Mine just "crashed" recently. Actually, it shuts itself down pretty
> > > cleanly, after outputting the following age-old messages:
> > > 
> > > Restarting node: PacketSender froze for 3 minutes!
> > > Exiting on deadlock.
> > > Restarting node: MessageCore froze for 3 minutes!
> > > (USM deadlock)
> > > Goodbye.
> > > 
> > > In general, I do notice that freenet bogs down my 1.2GHz machine
> > > quite a bit. Could that be the cause of these freezes/deadlocks?
> > > Can't it be less cpu/mem intensive? If I recall correctly, it does
> > > run smoothly for the first few hours, then slowly grinds itself
> > > (apparently) and my box to an unbearable crawl.
> > > 
> > > Maybe we could make those messages more informative? For example,
> > > before having the node shut itself down, have it dump it's list of
> > > threads or queues or whatever.
> > 
> > Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw the box
> > out the window and buy a new one. If you can't do that wait for the
> > db4o branch.
> 
> My main point in my last post was a suggestion to have the error
> message more informative. As another example, have it output it's
> memory/cpu usage before it shuts itself down, in the case of the
> deadlock I mentioned.

How do we get CPU usage from java? We can say how much memory is in use, how 
many threads are running, get a thread dump...
> 
> Also, why is there such a high requirement?? Why on earth is 100MB
> memory not enough? If it can't allocate any more memory, it should wait
> or throttle itself. Restricting freenet to the latest unecessary
> super-computers is dumb. (It really should be developed on a 486.)

Because it has a lot of stuff to track. People propose rewriting Freenet in 
kernel-mode C with 1KB blocks every so often, as an example. That means 32X 
more disk seeks, 32X bigger bloom filter, and so on; it's not feasible.

Memory requirements depend on two things:
- The datastore. The bdbje datastore uses a significant amount of memory, with 
significant churn, inside the JVM's allocated space; the salted hash 
datastore uses very little memory inside the memory limits but uses 1/2048th 
of the store outside of the limits as a memory mapped bloom filter to limit 
I/O.
- Client layer activity. Lots of large downloads use lots of memory, uploads 
use even more (because of inefficient architecture).
> 
> When is the db4o stuff expected to be released?

When I get around to it. :| The immediate 

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Wednesday 21 January 2009 03:01, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:52:26 +0100, bqz69 wrote:
> > 
> > > > Now my freenet is running on my fit-pc - has been running properly
> > > > the last week.
> > > >
> > > > I did following (I am using ubuntu 8.04):
> > > >
> > > > 1. Created a text file /etc/cron.allow containing my username.
> > >
> > > That might explain why your wrapper's wrapper (your crontab-run
> > > script) wasn't working. Though you don't have to manually specify a
> > > cron.allow file... you can just delete it, and it allows everyone
> > > by default, unless they're mentioned in cron.deny.
> > >
> > > > 2. Inserted following line in /etc/crontab:
> > > >
> > > > @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
> > > >
> > > > (Probably not necessary)
> > >
> > > This one, the system-cron file, is necessary. The second one is
> > > useless, I believe. Cron never checks ~/.crontab--only /etc/crontab,
> > > and /var/spool/cron/crontabs, for individual users.
> > >
> > > > 3. Created a text file ~/.crontab  with the following line:
> > > >
> > > > @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
> > > >
> > > > The freenet system seems however to very sensitive, and stops
> > > > when I do some other work, and then I have to restart freenet,
> > > > but as a mini-freenet server just serving data, it seems to work
> > > > well.
> > >
> > > Interesting. And bad! :). How sure are you that the crashes occur
> > > when you're doing other work on the system?
> > 
> > Ok, not so sure, just tried again and freenet did not stop this time.
> > 
> > > (Is it wishful thinking? ;).
> > > What is the "nice" value for freenet's java process?
> > 
> > It is 10
> > 
> > > (You can check
> > > it via the "top" command.) I had mine at a brutal 20 (the lowest
> > > priority of all my processes on my system), and toad suggested that
> > > this may have been the cause of my crashes. I have raised it's
> > > priority now, and will continue to test. Though I am skeptical.
> > > Crashing should not happen. Ever!
> > >
> > > > Thanks everybody so far, for your help
> > >
> > > "So far". I'm sure we haven't heard the end of this one :).
> 
> Mine just "crashed" recently. Actually, it shuts itself down pretty
> cleanly, after outputting the following age-old messages:
> 
> Restarting node: PacketSender froze for 3 minutes!
> Exiting on deadlock.
> Restarting node: MessageCore froze for 3 minutes!
> (USM deadlock)
> Goodbye.
> 
> In general, I do notice that freenet bogs down my 1.2GHz machine quite
> a bit. Could that be the cause of these freezes/deadlocks? Can't it be
> less cpu/mem intensive? If I recall correctly, it does run smoothly for
> the first few hours, then slowly grinds itself (apparently) and my box
> to an unbearable crawl.
> 
> Maybe we could make those messages more informative? For example,
> before having the node shut itself down, have it dump it's list of
> threads or queues or whatever.

Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw the box out the 
window and buy a new one. If you can't do that wait for the db4o branch.

Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of issues the answer has 
been either that it is showing constant Full GC's because it has slightly too 
little memory, or that there is external CPU load. Are you absolutely 
completely totally 100% sure that that is not the 
problem? AFAICS there are two posters here, and just because one of them is 
sure that the problem isn't memory doesn't necessarily mean that the other 
one's problems are not due to memory??
-- next part --
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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Wednesday 21 January 2009 03:01, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:52:26 +0100, bqz69 wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > Now my freenet is running on my fit-pc - has been running
> > > > > properly the last week.
> > > > >
> > > > > I did following (I am using ubuntu 8.04):
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Created a text file /etc/cron.allow containing my username.
> > > >
> > > > That might explain why your wrapper's wrapper (your crontab-run
> > > > script) wasn't working. Though you don't have to manually
> > > > specify a cron.allow file... you can just delete it, and it
> > > > allows everyone by default, unless they're mentioned in
> > > > cron.deny.
> > > >
> > > > > 2. Inserted following line in /etc/crontab:
> > > > >
> > > > > @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
> > > > >
> > > > > (Probably not necessary)
> > > >
> > > > This one, the system-cron file, is necessary. The second one is
> > > > useless, I believe. Cron never checks
> > > > ~/.crontab--only /etc/crontab, and /var/spool/cron/crontabs,
> > > > for individual users.
> > > >
> > > > > 3. Created a text file ~/.crontab  with the following line:
> > > > >
> > > > > @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
> > > > >
> > > > > The freenet system seems however to very sensitive, and stops
> > > > > when I do some other work, and then I have to restart freenet,
> > > > > but as a mini-freenet server just serving data, it seems to
> > > > > work well.
> > > >
> > > > Interesting. And bad! :). How sure are you that the crashes
> > > > occur when you're doing other work on the system?
> > > 
> > > Ok, not so sure, just tried again and freenet did not stop this
> > > time.
> > > 
> > > > (Is it wishful thinking? ;).
> > > > What is the "nice" value for freenet's java process?
> > > 
> > > It is 10
> > > 
> > > > (You can check
> > > > it via the "top" command.) I had mine at a brutal 20 (the lowest
> > > > priority of all my processes on my system), and toad suggested
> > > > that this may have been the cause of my crashes. I have raised
> > > > it's priority now, and will continue to test. Though I am
> > > > skeptical. Crashing should not happen. Ever!
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks everybody so far, for your help
> > > >
> > > > "So far". I'm sure we haven't heard the end of this one :).
> > 
> > Mine just "crashed" recently. Actually, it shuts itself down pretty
> > cleanly, after outputting the following age-old messages:
> > 
> > Restarting node: PacketSender froze for 3 minutes!
> > Exiting on deadlock.
> > Restarting node: MessageCore froze for 3 minutes!
> > (USM deadlock)
> > Goodbye.
> > 
> > In general, I do notice that freenet bogs down my 1.2GHz machine
> > quite a bit. Could that be the cause of these freezes/deadlocks?
> > Can't it be less cpu/mem intensive? If I recall correctly, it does
> > run smoothly for the first few hours, then slowly grinds itself
> > (apparently) and my box to an unbearable crawl.
> > 
> > Maybe we could make those messages more informative? For example,
> > before having the node shut itself down, have it dump it's list of
> > threads or queues or whatever.
> 
> Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw the box
> out the window and buy a new one. If you can't do that wait for the
> db4o branch.

My main point in my last post was a suggestion to have the error
message more informative. As another example, have it output it's
memory/cpu usage before it shuts itself down, in the case of the
deadlock I mentioned.

Also, why is there such a high requirement?? Why on earth is 100MB
memory not enough? If it can't allocate any more memory, it should wait
or throttle itself. Restricting freenet to the latest unecessary
super-computers is dumb. (It really should be developed on a 486.)

When is the db4o stuff expected to be released?

> Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of issues the
> answer has been either that it is showing constant Full GC's because
> it has slightly too little memory, or that there is external CPU
> load. Are you absolutely completely totally
> 100% sure that that is not the problem?
> AFAICS there are two posters here, and just because one of them is
> sure that the problem isn't memory doesn't necessarily mean that the
> other one's problems are not due to memory??

There are reports on FMS of people with gigs of ram, and powerful
machines, with crashing nodes. Though, I'm not sure if it's the same
problem, as my node hasn't really crashed this time--it just shut
itself down. (Before I would get JVM hung errors, without any clean
shut downs.)

Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Wednesday 21 January 2009 03:01, Dennis Nezic wrote:
 On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:52:26 +0100, bqz69 wrote:
  
Now my freenet is running on my fit-pc - has been running properly
the last week.
   
I did following (I am using ubuntu 8.04):
   
1. Created a text file /etc/cron.allow containing my username.
  
   That might explain why your wrapper's wrapper (your crontab-run
   script) wasn't working. Though you don't have to manually specify a
   cron.allow file... you can just delete it, and it allows everyone
   by default, unless they're mentioned in cron.deny.
  
2. Inserted following line in /etc/crontab:
   
@hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
   
(Probably not necessary)
  
   This one, the system-cron file, is necessary. The second one is
   useless, I believe. Cron never checks ~/.crontab--only /etc/crontab,
   and /var/spool/cron/crontabs, for individual users.
  
3. Created a text file ~/.crontab  with the following line:
   
@hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
   
The freenet system seems however to very sensitive, and stops
when I do some other work, and then I have to restart freenet,
but as a mini-freenet server just serving data, it seems to work
well.
  
   Interesting. And bad! :). How sure are you that the crashes occur
   when you're doing other work on the system?
  
  Ok, not so sure, just tried again and freenet did not stop this time.
  
   (Is it wishful thinking? ;).
   What is the nice value for freenet's java process?
  
  It is 10
  
   (You can check
   it via the top command.) I had mine at a brutal 20 (the lowest
   priority of all my processes on my system), and toad suggested that
   this may have been the cause of my crashes. I have raised it's
   priority now, and will continue to test. Though I am skeptical.
   Crashing should not happen. Ever!
  
Thanks everybody so far, for your help
  
   So far. I'm sure we haven't heard the end of this one :).
 
 Mine just crashed recently. Actually, it shuts itself down pretty
 cleanly, after outputting the following age-old messages:
 
 Restarting node: PacketSender froze for 3 minutes!
 Exiting on deadlock.
 Restarting node: MessageCore froze for 3 minutes!
 (USM deadlock)
 Goodbye.
 
 In general, I do notice that freenet bogs down my 1.2GHz machine quite
 a bit. Could that be the cause of these freezes/deadlocks? Can't it be
 less cpu/mem intensive? If I recall correctly, it does run smoothly for
 the first few hours, then slowly grinds itself (apparently) and my box
 to an unbearable crawl.
 
 Maybe we could make those messages more informative? For example,
 before having the node shut itself down, have it dump it's list of
 threads or queues or whatever.

Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw the box out the 
window and buy a new one. If you can't do that wait for the db4o branch.

Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of issues the answer has 
been either that it is showing constant Full GC's because it has slightly too 
little memory, or that there is external CPU load. Are you absolutely 
completely totally 100% sure that that is not the 
problem? AFAICS there are two posters here, and just because one of them is 
sure that the problem isn't memory doesn't necessarily mean that the other 
one's problems are not due to memory??


pgpF0KnEBVsd1.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
 On Wednesday 21 January 2009 03:01, Dennis Nezic wrote:
  On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:52:26 +0100, bqz69 wrote:
   
 Now my freenet is running on my fit-pc - has been running
 properly the last week.

 I did following (I am using ubuntu 8.04):

 1. Created a text file /etc/cron.allow containing my username.
   
That might explain why your wrapper's wrapper (your crontab-run
script) wasn't working. Though you don't have to manually
specify a cron.allow file... you can just delete it, and it
allows everyone by default, unless they're mentioned in
cron.deny.
   
 2. Inserted following line in /etc/crontab:

 @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start

 (Probably not necessary)
   
This one, the system-cron file, is necessary. The second one is
useless, I believe. Cron never checks
~/.crontab--only /etc/crontab, and /var/spool/cron/crontabs,
for individual users.
   
 3. Created a text file ~/.crontab  with the following line:

 @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start

 The freenet system seems however to very sensitive, and stops
 when I do some other work, and then I have to restart freenet,
 but as a mini-freenet server just serving data, it seems to
 work well.
   
Interesting. And bad! :). How sure are you that the crashes
occur when you're doing other work on the system?
   
   Ok, not so sure, just tried again and freenet did not stop this
   time.
   
(Is it wishful thinking? ;).
What is the nice value for freenet's java process?
   
   It is 10
   
(You can check
it via the top command.) I had mine at a brutal 20 (the lowest
priority of all my processes on my system), and toad suggested
that this may have been the cause of my crashes. I have raised
it's priority now, and will continue to test. Though I am
skeptical. Crashing should not happen. Ever!
   
 Thanks everybody so far, for your help
   
So far. I'm sure we haven't heard the end of this one :).
  
  Mine just crashed recently. Actually, it shuts itself down pretty
  cleanly, after outputting the following age-old messages:
  
  Restarting node: PacketSender froze for 3 minutes!
  Exiting on deadlock.
  Restarting node: MessageCore froze for 3 minutes!
  (USM deadlock)
  Goodbye.
  
  In general, I do notice that freenet bogs down my 1.2GHz machine
  quite a bit. Could that be the cause of these freezes/deadlocks?
  Can't it be less cpu/mem intensive? If I recall correctly, it does
  run smoothly for the first few hours, then slowly grinds itself
  (apparently) and my box to an unbearable crawl.
  
  Maybe we could make those messages more informative? For example,
  before having the node shut itself down, have it dump it's list of
  threads or queues or whatever.
 
 Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw the box
 out the window and buy a new one. If you can't do that wait for the
 db4o branch.

My main point in my last post was a suggestion to have the error
message more informative. As another example, have it output it's
memory/cpu usage before it shuts itself down, in the case of the
deadlock I mentioned.

Also, why is there such a high requirement?? Why on earth is 100MB
memory not enough? If it can't allocate any more memory, it should wait
or throttle itself. Restricting freenet to the latest unecessary
super-computers is dumb. (It really should be developed on a 486.)

When is the db4o stuff expected to be released?

 Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of issues the
 answer has been either that it is showing constant Full GC's because
 it has slightly too little memory, or that there is external CPU
 load. Are you absolutely completely totally
 100% sure that that is not the problem?
 AFAICS there are two posters here, and just because one of them is
 sure that the problem isn't memory doesn't necessarily mean that the
 other one's problems are not due to memory??

There are reports on FMS of people with gigs of ram, and powerful
machines, with crashing nodes. Though, I'm not sure if it's the same
problem, as my node hasn't really crashed this time--it just shut
itself down. (Before I would get JVM hung errors, without any clean
shut downs.)
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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Wednesday 21 January 2009 18:16, Dennis Nezic wrote:
 On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:47 +, Matthew Toseland wrote:
  On Wednesday 21 January 2009 03:01, Dennis Nezic wrote:
   On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:52:26 +0100, bqz69 wrote:

  Now my freenet is running on my fit-pc - has been running
  properly the last week.
 
  I did following (I am using ubuntu 8.04):
 
  1. Created a text file /etc/cron.allow containing my username.

 That might explain why your wrapper's wrapper (your crontab-run
 script) wasn't working. Though you don't have to manually
 specify a cron.allow file... you can just delete it, and it
 allows everyone by default, unless they're mentioned in
 cron.deny.

  2. Inserted following line in /etc/crontab:
 
  @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
 
  (Probably not necessary)

 This one, the system-cron file, is necessary. The second one is
 useless, I believe. Cron never checks
 ~/.crontab--only /etc/crontab, and /var/spool/cron/crontabs,
 for individual users.

  3. Created a text file ~/.crontab  with the following line:
 
  @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
 
  The freenet system seems however to very sensitive, and stops
  when I do some other work, and then I have to restart freenet,
  but as a mini-freenet server just serving data, it seems to
  work well.

 Interesting. And bad! :). How sure are you that the crashes
 occur when you're doing other work on the system?

Ok, not so sure, just tried again and freenet did not stop this
time.

 (Is it wishful thinking? ;).
 What is the nice value for freenet's java process?

It is 10

 (You can check
 it via the top command.) I had mine at a brutal 20 (the lowest
 priority of all my processes on my system), and toad suggested
 that this may have been the cause of my crashes. I have raised
 it's priority now, and will continue to test. Though I am
 skeptical. Crashing should not happen. Ever!

  Thanks everybody so far, for your help

 So far. I'm sure we haven't heard the end of this one :).
   
   Mine just crashed recently. Actually, it shuts itself down pretty
   cleanly, after outputting the following age-old messages:
   
   Restarting node: PacketSender froze for 3 minutes!
   Exiting on deadlock.
   Restarting node: MessageCore froze for 3 minutes!
   (USM deadlock)
   Goodbye.
   
   In general, I do notice that freenet bogs down my 1.2GHz machine
   quite a bit. Could that be the cause of these freezes/deadlocks?
   Can't it be less cpu/mem intensive? If I recall correctly, it does
   run smoothly for the first few hours, then slowly grinds itself
   (apparently) and my box to an unbearable crawl.
   
   Maybe we could make those messages more informative? For example,
   before having the node shut itself down, have it dump it's list of
   threads or queues or whatever.
  
  Give it more memory. If you can't give it more memory, throw the box
  out the window and buy a new one. If you can't do that wait for the
  db4o branch.
 
 My main point in my last post was a suggestion to have the error
 message more informative. As another example, have it output it's
 memory/cpu usage before it shuts itself down, in the case of the
 deadlock I mentioned.

How do we get CPU usage from java? We can say how much memory is in use, how 
many threads are running, get a thread dump...
 
 Also, why is there such a high requirement?? Why on earth is 100MB
 memory not enough? If it can't allocate any more memory, it should wait
 or throttle itself. Restricting freenet to the latest unecessary
 super-computers is dumb. (It really should be developed on a 486.)

Because it has a lot of stuff to track. People propose rewriting Freenet in 
kernel-mode C with 1KB blocks every so often, as an example. That means 32X 
more disk seeks, 32X bigger bloom filter, and so on; it's not feasible.

Memory requirements depend on two things:
- The datastore. The bdbje datastore uses a significant amount of memory, with 
significant churn, inside the JVM's allocated space; the salted hash 
datastore uses very little memory inside the memory limits but uses 1/2048th 
of the store outside of the limits as a memory mapped bloom filter to limit 
I/O.
- Client layer activity. Lots of large downloads use lots of memory, uploads 
use even more (because of inefficient architecture).
 
 When is the db4o stuff expected to be released?

When I get around to it. :| The immediate todo:
- Release 1203
- Implement basic progress screen.
- Get db4o sorted and merged.
- Sort out plugins (IMHO important for 0.8).
- Auto-update (and update.* update) the seednodes file.
- Maybe new metadata (IMHO the assumptions underlying this item may no longer 
be valid...)
 
  Seriously, EVERY time I have investigated these sorts of issues the
  answer has been either that 

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:52:26 +0100, bqz69 wrote:
> 
> > > Now my freenet is running on my fit-pc - has been running properly
> > > the last week.
> > >
> > > I did following (I am using ubuntu 8.04):
> > >
> > > 1. Created a text file /etc/cron.allow containing my username.
> >
> > That might explain why your wrapper's wrapper (your crontab-run
> > script) wasn't working. Though you don't have to manually specify a
> > cron.allow file... you can just delete it, and it allows everyone
> > by default, unless they're mentioned in cron.deny.
> >
> > > 2. Inserted following line in /etc/crontab:
> > >
> > > @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
> > >
> > > (Probably not necessary)
> >
> > This one, the system-cron file, is necessary. The second one is
> > useless, I believe. Cron never checks ~/.crontab--only /etc/crontab,
> > and /var/spool/cron/crontabs, for individual users.
> >
> > > 3. Created a text file ~/.crontab  with the following line:
> > >
> > > @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
> > >
> > > The freenet system seems however to very sensitive, and stops
> > > when I do some other work, and then I have to restart freenet,
> > > but as a mini-freenet server just serving data, it seems to work
> > > well.
> >
> > Interesting. And bad! :). How sure are you that the crashes occur
> > when you're doing other work on the system?
> 
> Ok, not so sure, just tried again and freenet did not stop this time.
> 
> > (Is it wishful thinking? ;).
> > What is the "nice" value for freenet's java process?
> 
> It is 10
> 
> > (You can check
> > it via the "top" command.) I had mine at a brutal 20 (the lowest
> > priority of all my processes on my system), and toad suggested that
> > this may have been the cause of my crashes. I have raised it's
> > priority now, and will continue to test. Though I am skeptical.
> > Crashing should not happen. Ever!
> >
> > > Thanks everybody so far, for your help
> >
> > "So far". I'm sure we haven't heard the end of this one :).

Mine just "crashed" recently. Actually, it shuts itself down pretty
cleanly, after outputting the following age-old messages:

Restarting node: PacketSender froze for 3 minutes!
Exiting on deadlock.
Restarting node: MessageCore froze for 3 minutes!
(USM deadlock)
Goodbye.

In general, I do notice that freenet bogs down my 1.2GHz machine quite
a bit. Could that be the cause of these freezes/deadlocks? Can't it be
less cpu/mem intensive? If I recall correctly, it does run smoothly for
the first few hours, then slowly grinds itself (apparently) and my box
to an unbearable crawl.

Maybe we could make those messages more informative? For example,
before having the node shut itself down, have it dump it's list of
threads or queues or whatever.

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

> > Now my freenet is running on my fit-pc - has been running properly
> > the last week.
> >
> > I did following (I am using ubuntu 8.04):
> >
> > 1. Created a text file /etc/cron.allow containing my username.
>
> That might explain why your wrapper's wrapper (your crontab-run script)
> wasn't working. Though you don't have to manually specify a cron.allow
> file... you can just delete it, and it allows everyone by default,
> unless they're mentioned in cron.deny.
>
> > 2. Inserted following line in /etc/crontab:
> >
> > @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
> >
> > (Probably not necessary)
>
> This one, the system-cron file, is necessary. The second one is
> useless, I believe. Cron never checks ~/.crontab--only /etc/crontab,
> and /var/spool/cron/crontabs, for individual users.
>
> > 3. Created a text file ~/.crontab  with the following line:
> >
> > @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
> >
> > The freenet system seems however to very sensitive, and stops when I
> > do some other work, and then I have to restart freenet, but as a
> > mini-freenet server just serving data, it seems to work well.
>
> Interesting. And bad! :). How sure are you that the crashes occur when
> you're doing other work on the system?

Ok, not so sure, just tried again and freenet did not stop this time.

> (Is it wishful thinking? ;).
> What is the "nice" value for freenet's java process?

It is 10

> (You can check
> it via the "top" command.) I had mine at a brutal 20 (the lowest
> priority of all my processes on my system), and toad suggested that
> this may have been the cause of my crashes. I have raised it's priority
> now, and will continue to test. Though I am skeptical. Crashing should
> not happen. Ever!
>
> > Thanks everybody so far, for your help
>
> "So far". I'm sure we haven't heard the end of this one :).

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

> > > I do not know much about the freenet internals, so I do not know.
> >
> > http://www.minihowto.org/4/
> >
> > Here you can see my wrapper log from november, when the problem began?
>
> Okay, we may be able to fix the part about the wrapper failing to start a
> new JVM. Try adding this to your wrapper.conf:
>
> wrapper.restart.delay=5

Now my freenet is running on my fit-pc - has been running properly the last 
week.

I did following (I am using ubuntu 8.04):

1. Created a text file /etc/cron.allow containing my username.

2. Inserted following line in /etc/crontab:

@hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start

(Probably not necessary)

3. Created a text file ~/.crontab  with the following line:

@hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start

The freenet system seems however to very sensitive, and stops when I do some 
other work, and then I have to restart freenet, but as a mini-freenet server 
just serving data, it seems to work well.

Thanks everybody so far, for your help

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:31:46 +0100, bqz69 wrote:
> 
> > > > I do not know much about the freenet internals, so I do not
> > > > know.
> > >
> > > http://www.minihowto.org/4/
> > >
> > > Here you can see my wrapper log from november, when the problem
> > > began?
> >
> > Okay, we may be able to fix the part about the wrapper failing to
> > start a new JVM. Try adding this to your wrapper.conf:
> >
> > wrapper.restart.delay=5
> 
> Now my freenet is running on my fit-pc - has been running properly
> the last week.
> 
> I did following (I am using ubuntu 8.04):
> 
> 1. Created a text file /etc/cron.allow containing my username.

That might explain why your wrapper's wrapper (your crontab-run script)
wasn't working. Though you don't have to manually specify a cron.allow
file... you can just delete it, and it allows everyone by default,
unless they're mentioned in cron.deny.


> 
> 2. Inserted following line in /etc/crontab:
> 
> @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
> 
> (Probably not necessary)

This one, the system-cron file, is necessary. The second one is
useless, I believe. Cron never checks ~/.crontab--only /etc/crontab,
and /var/spool/cron/crontabs, for individual users.


> 
> 3. Created a text file ~/.crontab  with the following line:
> 
> @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
> 
> The freenet system seems however to very sensitive, and stops when I
> do some other work, and then I have to restart freenet, but as a
> mini-freenet server just serving data, it seems to work well.

Interesting. And bad! :). How sure are you that the crashes occur when
you're doing other work on the system? (Is it wishful thinking? ;).
What is the "nice" value for freenet's java process? (You can check
it via the "top" command.) I had mine at a brutal 20 (the lowest
priority of all my processes on my system), and toad suggested that
this may have been the cause of my crashes. I have raised it's priority
now, and will continue to test. Though I am skeptical. Crashing should
not happen. Ever!

> 
> Thanks everybody so far, for your help

"So far". I'm sure we haven't heard the end of this one :).

Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

   I do not know much about the freenet internals, so I do not know.
 
  http://www.minihowto.org/4/
 
  Here you can see my wrapper log from november, when the problem began?

 Okay, we may be able to fix the part about the wrapper failing to start a
 new JVM. Try adding this to your wrapper.conf:

 wrapper.restart.delay=5

Now my freenet is running on my fit-pc - has been running properly the last 
week.

I did following (I am using ubuntu 8.04):

1. Created a text file /etc/cron.allow containing my username.

2. Inserted following line in /etc/crontab:

@hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start

(Probably not necessary)

3. Created a text file ~/.crontab  with the following line:

@hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start

The freenet system seems however to very sensitive, and stops when I do some 
other work, and then I have to restart freenet, but as a mini-freenet server 
just serving data, it seems to work well.

Thanks everybody so far, for your help
___
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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

  Now my freenet is running on my fit-pc - has been running properly
  the last week.
 
  I did following (I am using ubuntu 8.04):
 
  1. Created a text file /etc/cron.allow containing my username.

 That might explain why your wrapper's wrapper (your crontab-run script)
 wasn't working. Though you don't have to manually specify a cron.allow
 file... you can just delete it, and it allows everyone by default,
 unless they're mentioned in cron.deny.

  2. Inserted following line in /etc/crontab:
 
  @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
 
  (Probably not necessary)

 This one, the system-cron file, is necessary. The second one is
 useless, I believe. Cron never checks ~/.crontab--only /etc/crontab,
 and /var/spool/cron/crontabs, for individual users.

  3. Created a text file ~/.crontab  with the following line:
 
  @hourly myusername ~/Freenet/run.sh start
 
  The freenet system seems however to very sensitive, and stops when I
  do some other work, and then I have to restart freenet, but as a
  mini-freenet server just serving data, it seems to work well.

 Interesting. And bad! :). How sure are you that the crashes occur when
 you're doing other work on the system?

Ok, not so sure, just tried again and freenet did not stop this time.

 (Is it wishful thinking? ;).
 What is the nice value for freenet's java process?

It is 10

 (You can check
 it via the top command.) I had mine at a brutal 20 (the lowest
 priority of all my processes on my system), and toad suggested that
 this may have been the cause of my crashes. I have raised it's priority
 now, and will continue to test. Though I am skeptical. Crashing should
 not happen. Ever!

  Thanks everybody so far, for your help

 So far. I'm sure we haven't heard the end of this one :).


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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

> His wrapper stopped at
> 33minutes past the hour, while his own cronjob wrapper is set to run
> every ten minutes... so even after 7minutes, "run.sh status" still said
> it was running, or something.

My freenet just stopped again, here is my freenet.loggc after the stop:

http://www.minihowto.org/6/freenet.loggc_9jan2009

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Friday 09 January 2009 22:05, bqz69 wrote:
> > His wrapper stopped at
> > 33minutes past the hour, while his own cronjob wrapper is set to run
> > every ten minutes... so even after 7minutes, "run.sh status" still said
> > it was running, or something.
> 
> My freenet just stopped again, here is my freenet.loggc after the stop:
> 
> http://www.minihowto.org/6/freenet.loggc_9jan2009

It's incomplete.
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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

 His wrapper stopped at
 33minutes past the hour, while his own cronjob wrapper is set to run
 every ten minutes... so even after 7minutes, run.sh status still said
 it was running, or something.

My freenet just stopped again, here is my freenet.loggc after the stop:

http://www.minihowto.org/6/freenet.loggc_9jan2009

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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Friday 09 January 2009 22:05, bqz69 wrote:
  His wrapper stopped at
  33minutes past the hour, while his own cronjob wrapper is set to run
  every ten minutes... so even after 7minutes, run.sh status still said
  it was running, or something.
 
 My freenet just stopped again, here is my freenet.loggc after the stop:
 
 http://www.minihowto.org/6/freenet.loggc_9jan2009

It's incomplete.


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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Wednesday 07 January 2009 17:40, Dennis Nezic wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:22:52 +0100, bqz69  wrote:
> 
> > On Wednesday 07 January 2009 16:56:16 Dennis Nezic wrote:
> >  Do you have the
> > > most recent freenet-ext.jar?
> > Yes
> > 
> > Here is my newest wrapper log from 6. jan 2009:
> > 
> > http://www.minihowto.org/6/wrapper.log
> 
> Toad, this problem, of "hanging jvms" appears to be quite popular!
> Bqz69's node is also "crashing" almost every day--like my node used to
> (when I had it running in a wrapper)--and like others have also
> reported :\.
> 
> Running out of a wrapper seems to make the crashes less frequent.
> 
> But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet properly.
> Are you sure you need another wrapper around that wrapper? :)

We have had similar problems reported occasionally for some time. AFAICS the 
only causes we have found:
- Not having the native thread priority code. On x86 linux, or windows, this 
should not be a problem. On OS/X it is a problem as priorities are very 
vague, maybe the timeouts should be increased on OS/X.
- Constant garbage collection. Can we please have confirmation from 
freenet.loggc (see the wrapper config I mentioned earlier in the thread) that 
the node is doing constant (once a second or more) Full GC's just before it 
crashes?
- The node being starved of CPU time by external processes. If this is a 
problem for you, increase or disable your wrapper timeouts.
- Occasionally key threads stalling, but this would result in the node 
restarting itself rather than the wrapper restarting the node.

It may be possible that the wrapper threads are starved by other threads in 
Freenet, but this shouldn't happen as they should start at maximum priority, 
and the FEC decode thread for example should start at near minimum.

But there may be other causes.
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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Thursday 08 January 2009 16:30, bqz69 wrote:
> On Thursday 08 January 2009 16:52:48 Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > On Wednesday 07 January 2009 17:55, bqz69 wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 07 January 2009 18:49:57 bqz69 wrote:
> > > > > But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet 
properly.
> > > > > Are you sure you need another wrapper around that wrapper? :)
> > > >
> > > > I do not know much about the freenet internals, so I do not know.
> > >
> > > http://www.minihowto.org/4/
> > >
> > > Here you can see my wrapper log from november, when the problem began?
> >
> > Okay, we may be able to fix the part about the wrapper failing to start a
> > new JVM. Try adding this to your wrapper.conf:
> >
> > wrapper.restart.delay=5
> I already done that some time ago after your instructions, thanks

Then it's a wrapper bug...

But there is probably also a bug in the node...
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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

On Thursday 08 January 2009 16:52:48 Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Wednesday 07 January 2009 17:55, bqz69 wrote:
> > On Wednesday 07 January 2009 18:49:57 bqz69 wrote:
> > > > But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet properly.
> > > > Are you sure you need another wrapper around that wrapper? :)
> > >
> > > I do not know much about the freenet internals, so I do not know.
> >
> > http://www.minihowto.org/4/
> >
> > Here you can see my wrapper log from november, when the problem began?
>
> Okay, we may be able to fix the part about the wrapper failing to start a
> new JVM. Try adding this to your wrapper.conf:
>
> wrapper.restart.delay=5
I already done that some time ago after your instructions, thanks

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

On Thursday 08 January 2009 16:13:41 Dennis Nezic wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:01:25 +0100, bqz69  wrote:
> > On Wednesday 07 January 2009 18:49:57 bqz69 wrote:
> > > > But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet
> > > > properly. Are you sure you need another wrapper around that
> > > > wrapper? :)
> >
> > My freenet stopped again, in spite of my .crontab, here is the
> > wrapper.log
> >
> > http://www.minihowto.org/6/wrapper.log_7jan2009
>
> Very interesting:
>   "ERROR  | wrapper  | Unable to start a JVM"
>
> Since it was able to restart it many times before. It is especially
> interesting that your wrapper's wrapper didn't work either. When you
> get into this situation (Unable to start a JVM), what is the output of
> "run.sh status"?
Freenet 0.7 is not running.
> Are there any java processes running on the system?
I am only running freenet on the system (and firefox is running most of the 
time)
>
> How are you able to restart the node? (Since your script already tries
> to "run.sh start" and doesn't work?)
run.sh start (from the  command line)
>
> The WrapperManager warning may also be worth resolving. Why does
> wrapper 3.2.3 get launched and later "updated" to 3.3.1? Do you only
> have one freenet-ext jar? Does your wrapper config file reference this
> freenet-ext jar?
See:  http://www.minihowto.org/6/wrapper.conf

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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Wednesday 07 January 2009 17:55, bqz69 wrote:
> On Wednesday 07 January 2009 18:49:57 bqz69 wrote:
> > > But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet properly.
> > > Are you sure you need another wrapper around that wrapper? :)
> >
> > I do not know much about the freenet internals, so I do not know.
> >
> http://www.minihowto.org/4/
> 
> Here you can see my wrapper log from november, when the problem began?

Okay, we may be able to fix the part about the wrapper failing to start a new 
JVM. Try adding this to your wrapper.conf:

wrapper.restart.delay=5
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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:52:48 +, Matthew Toseland
 wrote:

> On Wednesday 07 January 2009 17:55, bqz69 wrote:
> > On Wednesday 07 January 2009 18:49:57 bqz69 wrote:
> > > > But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet
> > > > properly. Are you sure you need another wrapper around that
> > > > wrapper? :)
> > >
> > > I do not know much about the freenet internals, so I do not know.
> > >
> > http://www.minihowto.org/4/
> > 
> > Here you can see my wrapper log from november, when the problem
> > began?
> 
> Okay, we may be able to fix the part about the wrapper failing to
> start a new JVM. Try adding this to your wrapper.conf:
> 
> wrapper.restart.delay=5

I'm a little sceptical that this will work. His wrapper stopped at
33minutes past the hour, while his own cronjob wrapper is set to run
every ten minutes... so even after 7minutes, "run.sh status" still said
it was running, or something.

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:01:25 +0100, bqz69  wrote:

> On Wednesday 07 January 2009 18:49:57 bqz69 wrote:
> > > But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet
> > > properly. Are you sure you need another wrapper around that
> > > wrapper? :)
> 
> My freenet stopped again, in spite of my .crontab, here is the
> wrapper.log
> 
> http://www.minihowto.org/6/wrapper.log_7jan2009

Very interesting:
  "ERROR  | wrapper  | Unable to start a JVM"

Since it was able to restart it many times before. It is especially
interesting that your wrapper's wrapper didn't work either. When you
get into this situation (Unable to start a JVM), what is the output of
"run.sh status"? Are there any java processes running on the system?

How are you able to restart the node? (Since your script already tries
to "run.sh start" and doesn't work?)

The WrapperManager warning may also be worth resolving. Why does
wrapper 3.2.3 get launched and later "updated" to 3.3.1? Do you only
have one freenet-ext jar? Does your wrapper config file reference this
freenet-ext jar?

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

On Wednesday 07 January 2009 18:49:57 bqz69 wrote:
> > But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet properly.
> > Are you sure you need another wrapper around that wrapper? :)

My freenet stopped again, in spite of my .crontab, here is the wrapper.log

http://www.minihowto.org/6/wrapper.log_7jan2009

Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:01:25 +0100, bqz69 bq...@telia.com wrote:

 On Wednesday 07 January 2009 18:49:57 bqz69 wrote:
   But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet
   properly. Are you sure you need another wrapper around that
   wrapper? :)
 
 My freenet stopped again, in spite of my .crontab, here is the
 wrapper.log
 
 http://www.minihowto.org/6/wrapper.log_7jan2009

Very interesting:
  ERROR  | wrapper  | Unable to start a JVM

Since it was able to restart it many times before. It is especially
interesting that your wrapper's wrapper didn't work either. When you
get into this situation (Unable to start a JVM), what is the output of
run.sh status? Are there any java processes running on the system?

How are you able to restart the node? (Since your script already tries
to run.sh start and doesn't work?)

The WrapperManager warning may also be worth resolving. Why does
wrapper 3.2.3 get launched and later updated to 3.3.1? Do you only
have one freenet-ext jar? Does your wrapper config file reference this
freenet-ext jar?
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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Wednesday 07 January 2009 17:55, bqz69 wrote:
 On Wednesday 07 January 2009 18:49:57 bqz69 wrote:
   But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet properly.
   Are you sure you need another wrapper around that wrapper? :)
 
  I do not know much about the freenet internals, so I do not know.
 
 http://www.minihowto.org/4/
 
 Here you can see my wrapper log from november, when the problem began?

Okay, we may be able to fix the part about the wrapper failing to start a new 
JVM. Try adding this to your wrapper.conf:

wrapper.restart.delay=5


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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:52:48 +, Matthew Toseland
t...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:

 On Wednesday 07 January 2009 17:55, bqz69 wrote:
  On Wednesday 07 January 2009 18:49:57 bqz69 wrote:
But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet
properly. Are you sure you need another wrapper around that
wrapper? :)
  
   I do not know much about the freenet internals, so I do not know.
  
  http://www.minihowto.org/4/
  
  Here you can see my wrapper log from november, when the problem
  began?
 
 Okay, we may be able to fix the part about the wrapper failing to
 start a new JVM. Try adding this to your wrapper.conf:
 
 wrapper.restart.delay=5

I'm a little sceptical that this will work. His wrapper stopped at
33minutes past the hour, while his own cronjob wrapper is set to run
every ten minutes... so even after 7minutes, run.sh status still said
it was running, or something.
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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

On Thursday 08 January 2009 16:13:41 Dennis Nezic wrote:
 On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:01:25 +0100, bqz69 bq...@telia.com wrote:
  On Wednesday 07 January 2009 18:49:57 bqz69 wrote:
But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet
properly. Are you sure you need another wrapper around that
wrapper? :)
 
  My freenet stopped again, in spite of my .crontab, here is the
  wrapper.log
 
  http://www.minihowto.org/6/wrapper.log_7jan2009

 Very interesting:
   ERROR  | wrapper  | Unable to start a JVM

 Since it was able to restart it many times before. It is especially
 interesting that your wrapper's wrapper didn't work either. When you
 get into this situation (Unable to start a JVM), what is the output of
 run.sh status?
Freenet 0.7 is not running.
 Are there any java processes running on the system?
I am only running freenet on the system (and firefox is running most of the 
time)

 How are you able to restart the node? (Since your script already tries
 to run.sh start and doesn't work?)
run.sh start (from the  command line)

 The WrapperManager warning may also be worth resolving. Why does
 wrapper 3.2.3 get launched and later updated to 3.3.1? Do you only
 have one freenet-ext jar? Does your wrapper config file reference this
 freenet-ext jar?
See:  http://www.minihowto.org/6/wrapper.conf

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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

On Thursday 08 January 2009 16:52:48 Matthew Toseland wrote:
 On Wednesday 07 January 2009 17:55, bqz69 wrote:
  On Wednesday 07 January 2009 18:49:57 bqz69 wrote:
But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet properly.
Are you sure you need another wrapper around that wrapper? :)
  
   I do not know much about the freenet internals, so I do not know.
 
  http://www.minihowto.org/4/
 
  Here you can see my wrapper log from november, when the problem began?

 Okay, we may be able to fix the part about the wrapper failing to start a
 new JVM. Try adding this to your wrapper.conf:

 wrapper.restart.delay=5
I already done that some time ago after your instructions, thanks
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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Thursday 08 January 2009 16:30, bqz69 wrote:
 On Thursday 08 January 2009 16:52:48 Matthew Toseland wrote:
  On Wednesday 07 January 2009 17:55, bqz69 wrote:
   On Wednesday 07 January 2009 18:49:57 bqz69 wrote:
 But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet 
properly.
 Are you sure you need another wrapper around that wrapper? :)
   
I do not know much about the freenet internals, so I do not know.
  
   http://www.minihowto.org/4/
  
   Here you can see my wrapper log from november, when the problem began?
 
  Okay, we may be able to fix the part about the wrapper failing to start a
  new JVM. Try adding this to your wrapper.conf:
 
  wrapper.restart.delay=5
 I already done that some time ago after your instructions, thanks

Then it's a wrapper bug...

But there is probably also a bug in the node...


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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Matthew Toseland]

On Wednesday 07 January 2009 17:40, Dennis Nezic wrote:
 On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:22:52 +0100, bqz69 bq...@telia.com wrote:
 
  On Wednesday 07 January 2009 16:56:16 Dennis Nezic wrote:
   Do you have the
   most recent freenet-ext.jar?
  Yes
  
  Here is my newest wrapper log from 6. jan 2009:
  
  http://www.minihowto.org/6/wrapper.log
 
 Toad, this problem, of hanging jvms appears to be quite popular!
 Bqz69's node is also crashing almost every day--like my node used to
 (when I had it running in a wrapper)--and like others have also
 reported :\.
 
 Running out of a wrapper seems to make the crashes less frequent.
 
 But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet properly.
 Are you sure you need another wrapper around that wrapper? :)

We have had similar problems reported occasionally for some time. AFAICS the 
only causes we have found:
- Not having the native thread priority code. On x86 linux, or windows, this 
should not be a problem. On OS/X it is a problem as priorities are very 
vague, maybe the timeouts should be increased on OS/X.
- Constant garbage collection. Can we please have confirmation from 
freenet.loggc (see the wrapper config I mentioned earlier in the thread) that 
the node is doing constant (once a second or more) Full GC's just before it 
crashes?
- The node being starved of CPU time by external processes. If this is a 
problem for you, increase or disable your wrapper timeouts.
- Occasionally key threads stalling, but this would result in the node 
restarting itself rather than the wrapper restarting the node.

It may be possible that the wrapper threads are starved by other threads in 
Freenet, but this shouldn't happen as they should start at maximum priority, 
and the FEC decode thread for example should start at near minimum.

But there may be other causes.


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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

On Wednesday 07 January 2009 18:49:57 bqz69 wrote:
> > But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet properly.
> > Are you sure you need another wrapper around that wrapper? :)
>
> I do not know much about the freenet internals, so I do not know.
>
http://www.minihowto.org/4/

Here you can see my wrapper log from november, when the problem began?
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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

> But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet properly.
> Are you sure you need another wrapper around that wrapper? :)

I do not know much about the freenet internals, so I do not know.

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:22:52 +0100, bqz69  wrote:

> On Wednesday 07 January 2009 16:56:16 Dennis Nezic wrote:
>  Do you have the
> > most recent freenet-ext.jar?
> Yes
> 
> Here is my newest wrapper log from 6. jan 2009:
> 
> http://www.minihowto.org/6/wrapper.log

Toad, this problem, of "hanging jvms" appears to be quite popular!
Bqz69's node is also "crashing" almost every day--like my node used to
(when I had it running in a wrapper)--and like others have also
reported :\.

Running out of a wrapper seems to make the crashes less frequent.

But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet properly.
Are you sure you need another wrapper around that wrapper? :)

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:46:52 +0100, bqz69  wrote:

> On Wednesday 07 January 2009 16:32:17 Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:42:56 +0100, bqz69  wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 07 January 2009 02:53:19 Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:30:55 +0100, user1 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday 06 January 2009 23:19:43 Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > > > > > On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:55:42 +0100, user1 
> > > > > >
> 
> > > I have  a wrapper log, yes.
> >
> > Yes, but, almost the only purpose for using a wrapper is to do
> > precisely that :)--to restart the node if it ever crashes :). I
> > wonder why the wrapper isn't doing this. Are you sure the wrapper is
> > running? :) (maybe your wrapper.log is old).
> 
> No:
> 
> wrapper.log   6. jan. 2009
> 
> wrapper.log.1 3. jan. 2009

Try checking in those files for any useful information. Ie. lines
prefixed with "wrapper". Like the version of the wrapper, and also what
it says before it gets restarted. Does it detect that freenet or the
jvm have crashed? Maybe the wrapper itself crashed :). Do you have the
most recent freenet-ext.jar?

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

On Wednesday 07 January 2009 02:53:19 Dennis Nezic wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:30:55 +0100, user1  wrote:
> > On Tuesday 06 January 2009 23:19:43 Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > > On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:55:42 +0100, user1  wrote:
> > > > Now my freenet on my fit-pc with 256 mb ram seems to be running
> > > > steady (has been running for the last couple of days).
> > > >
> > > > I did following:
> > > > [cut]
> > >
> > > That's an ugly[1] hack :). And, doesn't your run.sh start a wrapper
> > >
> > > Though, we have similar physical ram space--I have a bit more,
> > > 384MB. (Why is 100M not enough again?) Do you have other big memory
> > > users running on your system?
> >
> > No

Even if an ugly hack, my freenet is running, and that was my purpose.

I have  a wrapper log, yes.

My fit-pc is running as a mini-freenet server (data transfer), but anything 
else goes very slow, so I use another computer for my "ordinary" tasks (fit-pc 
only comsumes 18 watt incl. router and adsl  modem - when measured with a 
cheap household watt measurer).

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:42:56 +0100, bqz69  wrote:

> On Wednesday 07 January 2009 02:53:19 Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:30:55 +0100, user1  wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 06 January 2009 23:19:43 Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:55:42 +0100, user1 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Now my freenet on my fit-pc with 256 mb ram seems to be
> > > > > running steady (has been running for the last couple of days).
> > > > >
> > > > > I did following:
> > > > > [cut]
> > > >
> > > > That's an ugly[1] hack :). And, doesn't your run.sh start a
> > > > wrapper
> > > >
> > > > Though, we have similar physical ram space--I have a bit more,
> > > > 384MB. (Why is 100M not enough again?) Do you have other big
> > > > memory users running on your system?
> > >
> > > No
> 
> Even if an ugly hack, my freenet is running, and that was my purpose.
> 
> I have  a wrapper log, yes.

Yes, but, almost the only purpose for using a wrapper is to do
precisely that :)--to restart the node if it ever crashes :). I wonder
why the wrapper isn't doing this. Are you sure the wrapper is
running? :) (maybe your wrapper.log is old).

Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

On Wednesday 07 January 2009 02:53:19 Dennis Nezic wrote:
 On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:30:55 +0100, user1 bq...@telia.com wrote:
  On Tuesday 06 January 2009 23:19:43 Dennis Nezic wrote:
   On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:55:42 +0100, user1 bq...@telia.com wrote:
Now my freenet on my fit-pc with 256 mb ram seems to be running
steady (has been running for the last couple of days).
   
I did following:
[cut]
  
   That's an ugly[1] hack :). And, doesn't your run.sh start a wrapper
  
   Though, we have similar physical ram space--I have a bit more,
   384MB. (Why is 100M not enough again?) Do you have other big memory
   users running on your system?
 
  No

Even if an ugly hack, my freenet is running, and that was my purpose.

I have  a wrapper log, yes.

My fit-pc is running as a mini-freenet server (data transfer), but anything 
else goes very slow, so I use another computer for my ordinary tasks (fit-pc 
only comsumes 18 watt incl. router and adsl  modem - when measured with a 
cheap household watt measurer).

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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:42:56 +0100, bqz69 bq...@telia.com wrote:

 On Wednesday 07 January 2009 02:53:19 Dennis Nezic wrote:
  On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:30:55 +0100, user1 bq...@telia.com wrote:
   On Tuesday 06 January 2009 23:19:43 Dennis Nezic wrote:
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:55:42 +0100, user1 bq...@telia.com
wrote:
 Now my freenet on my fit-pc with 256 mb ram seems to be
 running steady (has been running for the last couple of days).

 I did following:
 [cut]
   
That's an ugly[1] hack :). And, doesn't your run.sh start a
wrapper
   
Though, we have similar physical ram space--I have a bit more,
384MB. (Why is 100M not enough again?) Do you have other big
memory users running on your system?
  
   No
 
 Even if an ugly hack, my freenet is running, and that was my purpose.
 
 I have  a wrapper log, yes.

Yes, but, almost the only purpose for using a wrapper is to do
precisely that :)--to restart the node if it ever crashes :). I wonder
why the wrapper isn't doing this. Are you sure the wrapper is
running? :) (maybe your wrapper.log is old).
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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

On Wednesday 07 January 2009 16:32:17 Dennis Nezic wrote:
 On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:42:56 +0100, bqz69 bq...@telia.com wrote:
  On Wednesday 07 January 2009 02:53:19 Dennis Nezic wrote:
   On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:30:55 +0100, user1 bq...@telia.com wrote:
On Tuesday 06 January 2009 23:19:43 Dennis Nezic wrote:
 On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:55:42 +0100, user1 bq...@telia.com


  I have  a wrapper log, yes.

 Yes, but, almost the only purpose for using a wrapper is to do
 precisely that :)--to restart the node if it ever crashes :). I wonder
 why the wrapper isn't doing this. Are you sure the wrapper is
 running? :) (maybe your wrapper.log is old).

No:

wrapper.log 6. jan. 2009

wrapper.log.1   3. jan. 2009
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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:46:52 +0100, bqz69 bq...@telia.com wrote:

 On Wednesday 07 January 2009 16:32:17 Dennis Nezic wrote:
  On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:42:56 +0100, bqz69 bq...@telia.com wrote:
   On Wednesday 07 January 2009 02:53:19 Dennis Nezic wrote:
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:30:55 +0100, user1 bq...@telia.com
wrote:
 On Tuesday 06 January 2009 23:19:43 Dennis Nezic wrote:
  On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:55:42 +0100, user1 bq...@telia.com
 
 
   I have  a wrapper log, yes.
 
  Yes, but, almost the only purpose for using a wrapper is to do
  precisely that :)--to restart the node if it ever crashes :). I
  wonder why the wrapper isn't doing this. Are you sure the wrapper is
  running? :) (maybe your wrapper.log is old).
 
 No:
 
 wrapper.log   6. jan. 2009
 
 wrapper.log.1 3. jan. 2009

Try checking in those files for any useful information. Ie. lines
prefixed with wrapper. Like the version of the wrapper, and also what
it says before it gets restarted. Does it detect that freenet or the
jvm have crashed? Maybe the wrapper itself crashed :). Do you have the
most recent freenet-ext.jar?
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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

On Wednesday 07 January 2009 16:56:16 Dennis Nezic wrote:
 Do you have the
 most recent freenet-ext.jar?
Yes

Here is my newest wrapper log from 6. jan 2009:

http://www.minihowto.org/6/wrapper.log


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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:22:52 +0100, bqz69 bq...@telia.com wrote:

 On Wednesday 07 January 2009 16:56:16 Dennis Nezic wrote:
  Do you have the
  most recent freenet-ext.jar?
 Yes
 
 Here is my newest wrapper log from 6. jan 2009:
 
 http://www.minihowto.org/6/wrapper.log

Toad, this problem, of hanging jvms appears to be quite popular!
Bqz69's node is also crashing almost every day--like my node used to
(when I had it running in a wrapper)--and like others have also
reported :\.

Running out of a wrapper seems to make the crashes less frequent.

But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet properly.
Are you sure you need another wrapper around that wrapper? :)
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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

 But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet properly.
 Are you sure you need another wrapper around that wrapper? :)

I do not know much about the freenet internals, so I do not know.


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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

On Wednesday 07 January 2009 18:49:57 bqz69 wrote:
  But, Bzq69, your wrapper does seem to be restarting freenet properly.
  Are you sure you need another wrapper around that wrapper? :)

My freenet stopped again, in spite of my .crontab, here is the wrapper.log

http://www.minihowto.org/6/wrapper.log_7jan2009
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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[user1]

On Tuesday 06 January 2009 23:19:43 Dennis Nezic wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:55:42 +0100, user1  wrote:
> > Now my freenet on my fit-pc with 256 mb ram seems to be running
> > steady (has been running for the last couple of days).
> >
> > I did following:
> > [cut]
>
> That's an ugly[1] hack :). And, doesn't your run.sh start a wrapper

> Though, we have similar physical ram space--I have a bit more, 384MB.
> (Why is 100M not enough again?) Do you have other big memory users
> running on your system?
No
>
>
> [1] ugly because you don't need to make a text file--you can grep the

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[user1]

Now my freenet on my fit-pc with 256 mb ram seems to be running steady (has 
been running for the last couple of days).

I did following:

***

First I created a bash shell script "/home/user1/freenet_status_test.sh" with 
the following contents (please remember to make it executable):

#!/bin/bash

/home/user1/Freenet/run.sh status > /home/user1/freenet_test.txt 

if [[ `cat /home/user1/freenet_test.txt  | grep -i "Freenet 0.7 is not 
running."` != "" ]] 

then

/home/user1/Freenet/run.sh start 

fi

***

Then I created an empty text file "/home/user1/freenet_test.txt".

***

Then I created a "/home/user1/.crontab" file with the following contents:

0,10,20,30,40,50 * * * * user1 ~/freenet_status_test.sh

***

Then I ran:

sudo /etc/init.d/cron restart

***

I found the model for above shell script script on http://bashscripts.org/

***

I am using ubuntu 8.10 linux

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:30:55 +0100, user1  wrote:

> On Tuesday 06 January 2009 23:19:43 Dennis Nezic wrote:
> > On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:55:42 +0100, user1  wrote:
> > > Now my freenet on my fit-pc with 256 mb ram seems to be running
> > > steady (has been running for the last couple of days).
> > >
> > > I did following:
> > > [cut]
> >
> > That's an ugly[1] hack :). And, doesn't your run.sh start a wrapper
> 
> > Though, we have similar physical ram space--I have a bit more,
> > 384MB. (Why is 100M not enough again?) Do you have other big memory
> > users running on your system?
> No

Personally, I also do not think the problem is with memory. I've tried
allocating various amounts to freenet, and it didn't seem to change
anything. Also, when my node crashes, I don't think it even reaches the
maximum memory I allocate to it--let alone the maximum actual memory I
have on my system (disk-swapped memory).

I have logging for the garbage collector enabled this time as toad
suggested, and hopefully this will convince him. (or me ;)

Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[user1]

Now my freenet on my fit-pc with 256 mb ram seems to be running steady (has 
been running for the last couple of days).

I did following:

***

First I created a bash shell script /home/user1/freenet_status_test.sh with 
the following contents (please remember to make it executable):

#!/bin/bash

/home/user1/Freenet/run.sh status  /home/user1/freenet_test.txt 

if [[ `cat /home/user1/freenet_test.txt  | grep -i Freenet 0.7 is not 
running.` !=  ]] 

then

/home/user1/Freenet/run.sh start 

fi

***

Then I created an empty text file /home/user1/freenet_test.txt.

***

Then I created a /home/user1/.crontab file with the following contents:

0,10,20,30,40,50 * * * * user1 ~/freenet_status_test.sh

***

Then I ran:

sudo /etc/init.d/cron restart

***

I found the model for above shell script script on http://bashscripts.org/

***

I am using ubuntu 8.10 linux
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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:55:42 +0100, user1 bq...@telia.com wrote:

 Now my freenet on my fit-pc with 256 mb ram seems to be running
 steady (has been running for the last couple of days).
 
 I did following:
 [cut]

That's an ugly[1] hack :). And, doesn't your run.sh start a wrapper
that should do this automatically? (You can check by looking into your
wrapper.log in your Freenet folder--assuming it exists ;)--which I'm
going to guess is not true) My wrapper does--but it's very annoying,
since the downloads/uploads get messed up, not to mention the churn it
causes in the network topology?

But, more importantly, freenet shouldn't be crashing in the first
place!! ;)

Though, we have similar physical ram space--I have a bit more, 384MB.
(Why is 100M not enough again?) Do you have other big memory users
running on your system?


[1] ugly because you don't need to make a text file--you can grep the
output of run.sh directly... ie. if [[ `dir/run.sh status | grep
Freenet bla bla ]]; then blabla; fi
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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[user1]

On Tuesday 06 January 2009 23:19:43 Dennis Nezic wrote:
 On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:55:42 +0100, user1 bq...@telia.com wrote:
  Now my freenet on my fit-pc with 256 mb ram seems to be running
  steady (has been running for the last couple of days).
 
  I did following:
  [cut]

 That's an ugly[1] hack :). And, doesn't your run.sh start a wrapper

 Though, we have similar physical ram space--I have a bit more, 384MB.
 (Why is 100M not enough again?) Do you have other big memory users
 running on your system?
No


 [1] ugly because you don't need to make a text file--you can grep the

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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Dennis Nezic]

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:30:55 +0100, user1 bq...@telia.com wrote:

 On Tuesday 06 January 2009 23:19:43 Dennis Nezic wrote:
  On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:55:42 +0100, user1 bq...@telia.com wrote:
   Now my freenet on my fit-pc with 256 mb ram seems to be running
   steady (has been running for the last couple of days).
  
   I did following:
   [cut]
 
  That's an ugly[1] hack :). And, doesn't your run.sh start a wrapper
 
  Though, we have similar physical ram space--I have a bit more,
  384MB. (Why is 100M not enough again?) Do you have other big memory
  users running on your system?
 No

Personally, I also do not think the problem is with memory. I've tried
allocating various amounts to freenet, and it didn't seem to change
anything. Also, when my node crashes, I don't think it even reaches the
maximum memory I allocate to it--let alone the maximum actual memory I
have on my system (disk-swapped memory).

I have logging for the garbage collector enabled this time as toad
suggested, and hopefully this will convince him. (or me ;)
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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

On Monday 27 October 2008 07.23.41 Luke771 wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:04:49 +0100
>
> bqz69  wrote:
> > On Sunday 26 October 2008 13.07.56 bqz69 wrote:
> > > I am running freenet 1165 on a fit-pc using ubuntu 8.04.
> > >
> > > Freenet is  installed with autostart property set.
> > >
> > > When I check fit-pc the next morning, freenet has stopped running (fms
> > > works ok).
> > >
> > > I run ./run.sh status, and is told freenet is not running.
> > >
> > > Then I run ./run.sh start, and freenet starts up telling among others:
> > >
> > > "there isn-t enough entropy", but starts anyway.
> > >
> > > This has now happened 3 days in a row.
> > > ___
> > > Support mailing list
> > > Support at freenetproject.org
> > > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support
> > > Unsubscribe at
> > > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or
> > > mailto:support-request at freenetproject.org?subject=unsubscribe
> >
> > **
> >
> > Right now I tried to stop -and start freenet p? fit-pc, bun only one peer
> > got connected and the unconnected (busy).
> >
> > I have another freenet running on another computer (hp pavilion dv 9000),
> > and it runs cintinuously and have 12 peers connected at the moment.
> >
> > They are both connected to the internet vis same router and adsl modem.
>
> Does the warning 'not enough entropy' appear each time you start?
>
> If so, you can try this:
> Open a terminal and launch a search for any file using the command 'find /'
> (no quotes) You'll see a lot of text scroo through you terminal, don't
> worry, it's OK.
>
> Now launch your node using another terminal to run ./run.sh start so you
> can see what you type. Launch your browser and look how FProxy looks like.
> There shouldn't be any 'not enough entropy' message.
> Now you can stop the search that you launched with find / (with the
> terminal where the search is running in focus, hit ctrl+C) 
It did not work, when I stopped the "find /" process, so I let it finish its 
search process intil it stopped by itself, and now my freenet seems to be 
picking peer nodes up and connect to them as normal.
-thanks.

> Let the node run 
> and see how your peers are doing.
>
> IF the 'not enouogh entropy' thing was the problem, that should fix it.
> If the problem is caused by something else, then I don't know and you'll
> have to wait for some answer from someone who actually understand how
> Freenet works (I can only use it). If I understood that correctly (but it's
> very possible that I havent) 'not enough entropy' means that there isn't
> sufficient activity to generate  "randomity", a search on any file creates
> that activity.

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Luke771]

On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:04:49 +0100
bqz69  wrote:

> On Sunday 26 October 2008 13.07.56 bqz69 wrote:
> > I am running freenet 1165 on a fit-pc using ubuntu 8.04.
> >
> > Freenet is  installed with autostart property set.
> >
> > When I check fit-pc the next morning, freenet has stopped running (fms
> > works ok).
> >
> > I run ./run.sh status, and is told freenet is not running.
> >
> > Then I run ./run.sh start, and freenet starts up telling among others:
> >
> > "there isn-t enough entropy", but starts anyway.
> >
> > This has now happened 3 days in a row.
> > ___
> > Support mailing list
> > Support at freenetproject.org
> > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support
> > Unsubscribe at
> > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or
> > mailto:support-request at freenetproject.org?subject=unsubscribe
> **
> 
> Right now I tried to stop -and start freenet p? fit-pc, bun only one peer got 
> connected and the unconnected (busy).
> 
> I have another freenet running on another computer (hp pavilion dv 9000), and 
> it runs cintinuously and have 12 peers connected at the moment.
> 
> They are both connected to the internet vis same router and adsl modem.
> 


Does the warning 'not enough entropy' appear each time you start?

If so, you can try this:
Open a terminal and launch a search for any file using the command 'find /' (no 
quotes)
You'll see a lot of text scroo through you terminal, don't worry, it's OK.

Now launch your node using another terminal to run ./run.sh start so you can 
see what you type. 
Launch your browser and look how FProxy looks like. 
There shouldn't be any 'not enough entropy' message.
Now you can stop the search that you launched with find / (with the terminal 
where the search is running in focus, hit ctrl+C)
Let the node run and see how your peers are doing.

IF the 'not enouogh entropy' thing was the problem, that should fix it.
If the problem is caused by something else, then I don't know and you'll have 
to wait for some answer from someone who actually understand how Freenet works 
(I can only use it). If I understood that correctly (but it's very possible 
that I havent) 'not enough entropy' means that there isn't sufficient activity 
to generate  "randomity", a search on any file creates that activity.

-- 
FAFS - The Freenet Applications FreeSite
USK at 
ugb~uuscsidMI-Ze8laZe~o3BUIb3S50i25RIwDH99M,9T20t3xoG-dQfMO94LGOl9AxRTkaz~TykFY-voqaTQI,AQACAAE/FAFS/40/

freemail:
luke771 at 
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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[Luke771]

On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:04:49 +0100
bqz69 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Sunday 26 October 2008 13.07.56 bqz69 wrote:
  I am running freenet 1165 on a fit-pc using ubuntu 8.04.
 
  Freenet is  installed with autostart property set.
 
  When I check fit-pc the next morning, freenet has stopped running (fms
  works ok).
 
  I run ./run.sh status, and is told freenet is not running.
 
  Then I run ./run.sh start, and freenet starts up telling among others:
 
  there isn-t enough entropy, but starts anyway.
 
  This has now happened 3 days in a row.
  ___
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  Support@freenetproject.org
  http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support
  Unsubscribe at
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  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 **
 
 Right now I tried to stop -and start freenet på fit-pc, bun only one peer got 
 connected and the unconnected (busy).
 
 I have another freenet running on another computer (hp pavilion dv 9000), and 
 it runs cintinuously and have 12 peers connected at the moment.
 
 They are both connected to the internet vis same router and adsl modem.
 


Does the warning 'not enough entropy' appear each time you start?

If so, you can try this:
Open a terminal and launch a search for any file using the command 'find /' (no 
quotes)
You'll see a lot of text scroo through you terminal, don't worry, it's OK.

Now launch your node using another terminal to run ./run.sh start so you can 
see what you type. 
Launch your browser and look how FProxy looks like. 
There shouldn't be any 'not enough entropy' message.
Now you can stop the search that you launched with find / (with the terminal 
where the search is running in focus, hit ctrl+C)
Let the node run and see how your peers are doing.

IF the 'not enouogh entropy' thing was the problem, that should fix it.
If the problem is caused by something else, then I don't know and you'll have 
to wait for some answer from someone who actually understand how Freenet works 
(I can only use it). If I understood that correctly (but it's very possible 
that I havent) 'not enough entropy' means that there isn't sufficient activity 
to generate  randomity, a search on any file creates that activity.

-- 
FAFS - The Freenet Applications FreeSite
[EMAIL PROTECTED],9T20t3xoG-dQfMO94LGOl9AxRTkaz~TykFY-voqaTQI,AQACAAE/FAFS/40/

freemail:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

On Monday 27 October 2008 07.23.41 Luke771 wrote:
 On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:04:49 +0100

 bqz69 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Sunday 26 October 2008 13.07.56 bqz69 wrote:
   I am running freenet 1165 on a fit-pc using ubuntu 8.04.
  
   Freenet is  installed with autostart property set.
  
   When I check fit-pc the next morning, freenet has stopped running (fms
   works ok).
  
   I run ./run.sh status, and is told freenet is not running.
  
   Then I run ./run.sh start, and freenet starts up telling among others:
  
   there isn-t enough entropy, but starts anyway.
  
   This has now happened 3 days in a row.
   ___
   Support mailing list
   Support@freenetproject.org
   http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support
   Unsubscribe at
   http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or
   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  **
 
  Right now I tried to stop -and start freenet på fit-pc, bun only one peer
  got connected and the unconnected (busy).
 
  I have another freenet running on another computer (hp pavilion dv 9000),
  and it runs cintinuously and have 12 peers connected at the moment.
 
  They are both connected to the internet vis same router and adsl modem.

 Does the warning 'not enough entropy' appear each time you start?

 If so, you can try this:
 Open a terminal and launch a search for any file using the command 'find /'
 (no quotes) You'll see a lot of text scroo through you terminal, don't
 worry, it's OK.

 Now launch your node using another terminal to run ./run.sh start so you
 can see what you type. Launch your browser and look how FProxy looks like.
 There shouldn't be any 'not enough entropy' message.
 Now you can stop the search that you launched with find / (with the
 terminal where the search is running in focus, hit ctrl+C) 
It did not work, when I stopped the find / process, so I let it finish its 
search process intil it stopped by itself, and now my freenet seems to be 
picking peer nodes up and connect to them as normal.
-thanks.

 Let the node run 
 and see how your peers are doing.

 IF the 'not enouogh entropy' thing was the problem, that should fix it.
 If the problem is caused by something else, then I don't know and you'll
 have to wait for some answer from someone who actually understand how
 Freenet works (I can only use it). If I understood that correctly (but it's
 very possible that I havent) 'not enough entropy' means that there isn't
 sufficient activity to generate  randomity, a search on any file creates
 that activity.


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[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

I am running freenet 1165 on a fit-pc using ubuntu 8.04.

Freenet is  installed with autostart property set.

When I check fit-pc the next morning, freenet has stopped running (fms works 
ok).

I run ./run.sh status, and is told freenet is not running.

Then I run ./run.sh start, and freenet starts up telling among others:

"there isn-t enough entropy", but starts anyway.

This has now happened 3 days in a row.

[freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

I am running freenet 1165 on a fit-pc using ubuntu 8.04.

Freenet is  installed with autostart property set.

When I check fit-pc the next morning, freenet has stopped running (fms works 
ok).

I run ./run.sh status, and is told freenet is not running.

Then I run ./run.sh start, and freenet starts up telling among others:

there isn-t enough entropy, but starts anyway.

This has now happened 3 days in a row.
___
Support mailing list
Support@freenetproject.org
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support
Unsubscribe at http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support
Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [freenet-support] freenet stops running

[bqz69]

On Sunday 26 October 2008 13.07.56 bqz69 wrote:
 I am running freenet 1165 on a fit-pc using ubuntu 8.04.

 Freenet is  installed with autostart property set.

 When I check fit-pc the next morning, freenet has stopped running (fms
 works ok).

 I run ./run.sh status, and is told freenet is not running.

 Then I run ./run.sh start, and freenet starts up telling among others:

 there isn-t enough entropy, but starts anyway.

 This has now happened 3 days in a row.
 ___
 Support mailing list
 Support@freenetproject.org
 http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support
 Unsubscribe at
 http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
**

Right now I tried to stop -and start freenet på fit-pc, bun only one peer got 
connected and the unconnected (busy).

I have another freenet running on another computer (hp pavilion dv 9000), and 
it runs cintinuously and have 12 peers connected at the moment.

They are both connected to the internet vis same router and adsl modem.

___
Support mailing list
Support@freenetproject.org
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support
Unsubscribe at http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support
Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]