Re: [Sursound] Naive question on MS and Ambisonics
I dont understand the question either ! Does MS stand for mono/stereo ? Not naive enough for my liking On 8 May 2013 20:31, Martin Leese martin.le...@stanfordalumni.org wrote: revery wrote: I have a question on the decoding MS recordings, for instance just 2 channel, by using an ambisonic decoder to create the stereo. Am I off the track here? Would an elaborate MS to ambisonic converter be required, or maybe just a level change between M and S? My purpose is to be able use say Harpex to to do the extra magic it does with converting to different microphone configurations etc, and the possibilities with double MS. I am not sure I understand your question (using an ambisonic decoder to create the stereo and double MS puzzle me), but have you looked at Super Stereo? This uses an Ambisonic decoder to reproduce stereo sources; visit: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/Ambisonic/faq_section10.html 1980s domestic Ambisonic decoders had a Super Stereo mode, but I don't know if Harpex does. The decoding equations are in a PDF file available at: https://sites.google.com/site/mytemporarydownloads/ Look under Ambisonic stuff. Regards, Martin -- Martin J Leese E-mail: martin.leese stanfordalumni.org Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/ ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- 07580951119 augustine.leudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130509/c6042396/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Naive question on MS and Ambisonics
mid and side Dr Peter Lennox School of Technology, Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology University of Derby, UK e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk t: 01332 593155 From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Augustine Leudar [augustineleu...@gmail.com] Sent: 09 May 2013 09:41 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Naive question on MS and Ambisonics I dont understand the question either ! Does MS stand for mono/stereo ? Not naive enough for my liking On 8 May 2013 20:31, Martin Leese martin.le...@stanfordalumni.org wrote: revery wrote: I have a question on the decoding MS recordings, for instance just 2 channel, by using an ambisonic decoder to create the stereo. Am I off the track here? Would an elaborate MS to ambisonic converter be required, or maybe just a level change between M and S? My purpose is to be able use say Harpex to to do the extra magic it does with converting to different microphone configurations etc, and the possibilities with double MS. I am not sure I understand your question (using an ambisonic decoder to create the stereo and double MS puzzle me), but have you looked at Super Stereo? This uses an Ambisonic decoder to reproduce stereo sources; visit: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/Ambisonic/faq_section10.html 1980s domestic Ambisonic decoders had a Super Stereo mode, but I don't know if Harpex does. The decoding equations are in a PDF file available at: https://sites.google.com/site/mytemporarydownloads/ Look under Ambisonic stuff. Regards, Martin -- Martin J Leese E-mail: martin.leese stanfordalumni.org Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/ ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- 07580951119 augustine.leudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130509/c6042396/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound _ The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Naive question on MS and Ambisonics
Helmut Wittek gave a paper Tonmeistertagung 2006 that discusses the relationship between Schoeps Double-MS and Ambisonic B-format. http://hauptmikrofon.de/HW/TMT2006_Wittek_DoubleMS_neutral.pdf English translation here: http://www.schoeps.de/documents/SCHOEPS_Double_MS_paper_E_2010.pdf -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130509/ee21e80a/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Naive question on MS and Ambisonics
revery wrote: I have a question on the decoding MS recordings, for instance just 2 channel, by using an ambisonic decoder to create the stereo. Am I off the track here? Would an elaborate MS to ambisonic converter be required, or maybe just a level change between M and S? My purpose is to be able use say Harpex to to do the extra magic it does with converting to different microphone configurations etc, and the possibilities with double MS. Hi, in my experience converting stereo to Ambisonics is a bit of a kludge - you will get some extra wrap-around / immersion with the super-stereo type processors but whether Harpex would be able to make anything useful out of that I don't know. - that's a question for the Harpex people! M/S is already very flexible which is why it's used so much in film soundtrack recording. It's quite simple to wrap MS recordings into 5.1, etc. But if you're looking at being able to create shotgun virtual microphones via Harpex, I'm not sure that there is enough information in the signal. I'm not a mathematician but I imagine that the absence of a real W signal would make this very difficult. You can always record an omni along with your MS mic and get horizontal B-format! best, Justin Justin Bennett jus...@justinbennett.nl www.justinbennett.nl http://jubilee-art.org/ ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Naive question on MS and Ambisonics
You can always record an omni along with your MS mic and get horizontal B-format! only, of course, if you are using 2x figure-of-8 mics, or a double MS set up. I was a bit quick with the send button there. best, Justin Justin Bennett jus...@justinbennett.nl www.justinbennett.nl http://jubilee-art.org/ ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Naive question on MS and Ambisonics
revery wrote: I have a question on the decoding MS recordings, for instance just 2 channel, by using an ambisonic decoder to create the stereo. Am I off the track here? Would an elaborate MS to ambisonic converter be required, or maybe just a level change between M and S? My purpose is to be able use say Harpex to to do the extra magic it does with converting to different microphone configurations etc, and the possibilities with double MS. I believe that Harpex-B requires 4 inputs W,X,Y,Z (called 1st Order B-Format). It handily converts this to many different configurations including stereo, and one has the option of effectively changing the stereo orientation including Blumlein, X/Y, A/B etc. The requirement is the 4 inputs-- something that conventional M-S recording will not have. There are ways to convert a stereo input into B-format, however. Dan Courville's excellent Ambisonic Studio offers some really interesting ways of converting a stereo signal into the 4 B-format. Once converted, the B-Format signal can be used in Harpex-B. There are other options. Ultimately, I believe that if your input is conventional mid/side stereo, you will be able to very effectively expand and collapse your stereo field with a simple M-S decoder like Tom Erbe's free Matrix~ that is part of his Freeware package at http://www.soundhack.com/freeware/. I, too, have been struggling with these issues. Scott www.thethirdbarn.org -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130509/463da57e/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Naive question on MS and Ambisonics
On 2013-05-09, Justin Bennett wrote: You can always record an omni along with your MS mic and get horizontal B-format! only, of course, if you are using 2x figure-of-8 mics, or a double MS set up. Theoretically it works with a pair of cardioids (XY; call them a and b), the Blumlein pair (c and d) you're describing, or conventional M/S with a cardioid and a fig-8 (M and S), and a number of intermediate pickup patterns and microphone axes. That's because as long as your signal set spans WXY, you can matrix from any combination to any other. So, modulo scaling and sign convention, I believe you get W as-is, then X=a+b-2W=c+d=M-W, and Y=a-b=c-d=S. The third extra channel doesn't need to be W either, as long as it's not a linear combination of the others. In practice your mileage may vary, because of imperfect matching between the mics, failure of full coincidence, variance of the mics from an ideal first order response which breaks the cancellation in the matrix and leaks in higher order harmonics, and the fact that the farther you go from WXY, the more illposed the matrix becomes, so that noise amplification differs between the setups (think two subcardioids facing just a few degrees off front center). -- Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front +358-50-5756111, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2 ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
