[biofuels-biz] Nature article: A flight of fancy
Your friend or colleague [EMAIL PROTECTED] thought this article from Nature would be of particular interest to you. Their message is below. Nature article: A flight of fancy The address is: http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v423/n6943/full/423903a_fs.html Their message: I thought that this might be of interest to those who perceive big-biz protectionism as stultifying biofuels-biz. Try writing your congressman on this one! Michael Nature (www.nature.com) To view the whole range of information available in Nature and its portals, visit www.nature.com/nature To subscribe to the science journal with the most cutting-edge research, news, views and reviews, click www.nature.com/subscribe. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] diester oil
Hi all, Can anyone give more information on diester oil? I am confused about the chemical structure. Surely it is not diglyceride, is it? Regards to all. levent yuceer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] hi, there
Hi, Yes. I know of 2 groups whi have been quite successful in this - at least in lab conditions. They are working on to scale up their model so that it can be vaible and mass produced. Whlie an agency called SuTra, within the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, India (reputed to be one of the top 5 Science Tech. Universities in the World) is working of a seed oil conversion technology (contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dr. Udupi Srinivas), the other group has been successful in converting plastics (recovered/waste/discarded) into some fuel that has properties similar to desil, but with lesser environ contaminating components. They are in Bombay, but I don't have their email details. Shall sent you later. Rajeev Kumar, CEO, Project Agastya, Bangalore lihesally [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Is anybody working in biodiesel/Ethanol diesel combustion and emission modeling? Thanks. Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Want to chat instantly with your online friends?ÊGet the FREE Yahoo!Messenger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] diester oil
Levent, Diester is a confusing name. The 'di' part has nothing to do with chemistry, it is just short for 'diesel', while the 'ester' part is ... well .. ester :-) David T. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Bio-Oil Stock Dynamotive has jumped upward
Dynamotive (DYMTF.ob on yahoo's symbol system) Im not recommending this company and don't presently have an investment. I've called them a few times over the years to try to understand what (if anything) they were actually *doing* and producing. I wasn't as cynical about them as I am about some other companies, but my guess was that at best, it was going to take awhile for their ship to come in, and that this was risky at best. I could enumerate other problems I thought I saw. http://www.pinksheets.com/quote/chart.jsp?symbol=DYMTF News stories can be seen here, for example. If anyone can develop a sense of why their latest we're working on various wonderful things releases have corresponded with a wonderful stock rise now, and not at other times, I'd be interested to read your thoughts: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?d=ts=DYMTF.OB Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: biocides
Although this is somewhat off topic I was hoping someone else would challenge this statement: As you may know the wood treatment that involves a couple toxic compounds including arsenic, in use for over 70 years, is being dumped for an entirely new system come the end of this year, despite that arsenic treated wood has been used without problems all this time. (Another case of lawyers pushing the system) Glenn Ellis Although the following excerpt from http://www.ewg.org/reports/poisonwoodrivals/pr.html does not completely counter Mr. Ellis' assertion, it is compelling if one considers the precautionary principle: The Poisonwood Rivals by Environmental Working Group (EWG) and Healthy Building Network (HBN) reports that an area of arsenic-treated wood the size of a four-year-old's hand contains an average of 120 times the amount of arsenic allowed in a 6 ounce glass of water by the U.S. EPA. The highest contamination was found in a North Carolina sample at 500 times the acceptable safety level. Arsenic sticks to children's hands when they play on treated wood, and is absorbed through the skin and ingested when they put their hands in their mouths. Based on the average arsenic level detected in lumber from 18 Home Depot and Lowe's stores, EWG estimated that one of every 500 children who regularly play on playground equipment or decks made from pressure-treated wood can be expected to develop cancer later in life as a result of this exposure. Allow me to add from this same page that According to the National Academy of Sciences, exposure to arsenic causes lung, bladder, and skin cancer in humans, and is suspected as a cause of kidney, prostate, and nasal passage cancer. Do we have to wait until children grow-up and die premature deaths from bladder cancer before we control such substances? FYI, I'm not a lawyer but I was very happy to hear about this change. Eric Chrisp __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Props Conversions
Although I have earnestly read each article to pass through biofuels-biz, this is my first post; SO, I'd like to quickly thank everyone for contributing such essential information as we strive to convert a once whimsical substitution into a full-blown industry. Keith, you're an absolute monster and an inspiration, keep truckin'. Special thanks to Ed Beggs for being a master. Now, does anyone have a remote clue on how to convert Weight in tons to Volume in Gallons with vegetable oil as the medium? For example, if one metropolitan center in the U.S. accumulates 5,000 tons of vegetable oil in one year's time, is there any reliable way of determining the volume of such? As well, in certain waste-processing-oriented reports and papers, greases and fats are referred to by color. I think that the term used for vegetable oil and like substances is Yellow grease or oil. Is anyone aware of the type or quality of yellow in such documents? Would this be isolated vegetable oils, or impure mixtures? Thanks everyone. PS. I'm working on a project that'll get everyone giddy, I'll keep you posted. Joey Hundert Transcendental Ventures Inc. Edmonton, AB Canada Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel]Pre-treatments of cellulosic biomass to improve the Biogas technologies
Helo Dear and respected Keith addison Thank you very much for your latest excellent INFORMATION ABOUT INTEGERATION OF COMPOSTING AND BIODIGESTION.In this regard, Bate work and your observations are very relavent important one to rethink and well understanding for all who want to work with biogas technology. There are significant material loss in aerobic composting upto 20 porcent as CO2. Hence our approach not included this step, but use anerobic process using the anerobic bacteria in the effluent , growing this bacterias and recycling the same to render polymeric degradation.This bioprocess pretreatment is to accelerate the methane biodigestion. From your observation and Bate work ,precomposting at high temperature can be also as effetive as our approach and we will include this in our future design. This three stage process of aerobic thermofilic composting , anerobic hydrolysis , followed by biodigestion can treat all type of the wastes in to fuel , if properly understood, designed and operated . Excellent low cost accelerated composting work is going on in brasil related with garbage, if any one need we can pass on the relevent information, thus possible to include into biogas projects. More over the biogas tecnology can be also used to transform impure gas co, co2 and H2 pyrolysis or wood gasification very easily tranformed into methane. Thus mehane will be real economic and ecologuically correct fuel , can easily combined togther with other biodiesel, biooil and alcohol . Thank you again for brinking the excellent practical work of Bate to our group .The BIOGAS is not the fuel of the future , but it has potencial for the present annd future not only for the poor country but also the developed one, as this make it possible wealth from waste.We need to make this fact spread all over the world by bringing together all our group expererience together, so that ALL CAN HAVE THE BIOMASS ENERGY WITH GREAT GREEN FUTURE WITHOUT NEED FOR WAR , BUT BRINGING PEACE TO GLOBALIZED WORLD. LET ALL THE MEMBER OF THE BIOFUEL JOINT HAND TOWARDS THIS END WITH THE DEDICATED WORK OF OUR BELOVED KEITH ADDISION. LET US JOIN TO MAKE THIS AS BIG MOVIMENTS. BEST WISHES AND SUCCES SD Pannirselvam Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Pannirselvam Dear and respected Keith Addision Thank you very much about your keen interest about biogas technology developments.Your constant help about several internet useful link are making us to learn a lot.i am very sorry not very clear some points I beleive the sucess of any group depends on the person who need to be not only co-ordinator , doorman , but above all the leadership quality too , because all of us are participating voluentary work. ... well, okay... :-) The group is moving in correct direction . That's the important bit, thankyou! Solid residues from food , agricultural wastes and any vegatable wastes are made of natural polymeric materials such asd cellulose, lignin and hemicellulose .They are dificult to be attacked by microbes OR ENZYMES , thus need long time for bioderadation and hence need treatments befor biodegradations. Mecanical, themal , chemical treatments used before biodigestion are known as pretreatments. Biogas can be poduced form lingocellulosics but need 120 days, thus not economically desirable. Biodigestion is possible using some solid residues examplo, food waste as it is , without any need for pretreatments , but fibrous and woody residues need to be pretreated to improve the process. Why not pre-composting? I'm not nearly as familiar (yet) with biogas as with composting, but I think the parameters are similar except for aeration and moisture content. More intractable materials will break down very rapidly in a thermophyllic (hot) compost pile if the overall C:N ratio is somewhere between 25:1 and 35:1, moisture content about 65-70% and with a plentiful air supply (preferably from underneath). Such a compost pile will reach at least 60 deg C (or much more) in a day or two; a few days to a week under such conditions would prepare such materials for a biogas digester, only requiring increased moisture content. Mechanical treatment would be shredding to increase the surface area, and perhaps stirring to increase aeration. With composting both these can be useful but are certainly not necessary. It seems you're managing to treat food wastes directly without pre-treatment because the C:N ratio is already within the correct parameters; cellulose material needs the addition of nitrogenous material, such as manure, fresh green plants, etc. Correcting the C:N ratio might be simpler and more economical than pre-treatments. I think pre-treatments would be an extra step, a deterrent to the technology being taken up at
RE: [biofuel] Problems sep. glycerine
Pieter, You might be using too much Sodium Hydroxide. That would explain why the sample became very hot when you added Phosphoric Acid. Acid-base neutralization is exothermic. That would also explain why you are not seeing a clear separation of FFA. It is because the phosphoric acid that is suppose to form FFA is used up in the neutralization reaction thus very little FFA is produced. Chris =-Original Message- =From: Ken Provost [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 6:10 AM =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Subject: Re: [biofuel] Problems sep. glycerine = = =on 6/22/03 1:36 PM, Pieter Koole at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = = Hello, = I am still trying to separate glycerin and FFA's, but = it does not work. = Now I used ¸ liter of the bottom layer ( from the very = bottom of the vessel ) and ¸ liter ( not ¸ ml. but ¸ liter ! ) = sulphuric acid ( 98% ) and all that happens : no separation. = = =Wow! Pi liters! I could never measure that close... :-) = = = What I see after several hours, is a top layer which = is about ² of the sample. This top layer is slightly = lighter in colour than the bottom layer, which is really = dark / black. = =I suspect the top layer is FFA and the bottom is glycerine. =(The FFA layer might even be sort of reddish. It's also =known as red oil.) = =You're using way to much H2SO4. A good way to see the FFA's =clearly is to dilute a small amount (maybe 100 l) of the =glycerine layer into a liter of water, so the dark color =of the glycerine is completely lost. Then add H2SO4 just =10 ml at a time, stirring 5 minutes each time, until a =dark red layer of FFA starts separating out in globules. =Let it sit a couple hours and all the FFA will be floating =on top. Smells weird. -K = = = =Biofuel at Journey to Forever: =http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html = =Biofuels list archives: =http://archive.nnytech.net/ = =Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. =To unsubscribe, send an email to: =[EMAIL PROTECTED] = =Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ = = Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] FW: [SOLAR] NOW heliostat WAS new dish space frame crosspost
Interesting Kirk. A few articles found at google -- Unexpected discovery could yield a full-spectrum solar cell Berkeley, CA | 25 November 2002 http://oemagazine.com/newscast/112502_newscast01.html Couple of excerpts: Many factors limit the efficiency of photovoltaic cells. One of the most fundamental limitations on solar cell efficiency is the band gap of the semiconductor from which the cell is made. The maximum efficiency a solar cell made from a single material can achieve in converting light to electrical power is about 30%; the best efficiency actually achieved is about 25%. To do better, researchers and manufacturers stack different band gap materials in multijunction cells. Two layers of indium gallium nitride, one tuned to a band gap of 1.7 eV and the other to 1.1 eV, could attain the theoretical 50% maximum efficiency for a two-layer multijunction cell. Or a great many layers with only small differences in their band gaps could be stacked to approach the maximum theoretical efficiency of better than 70%. Unexpected Discovery Shows Promise for Better Solar Cells Posted on: 01/01/2003 http://www.energyusernews.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/news/news_item/0,2588,89801,00.html Both the above articles lead to others. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Bio-Oil Stock Dynamotive has jumped upward
Dynamotive (DYMTF.ob on yahoo's symbol system) Im not recommending this company and don't presently have an investment. I've called them a few times over the years to try to understand what (if anything) they were actually *doing* and producing. I wasn't as cynical about them as I am about some other companies, but my guess was that at best, it was going to take awhile for their ship to come in, and that this was risky at best. I could enumerate other problems I thought I saw. http://www.pinksheets.com/quote/chart.jsp?symbol=DYMTF News stories can be seen here, for example. If anyone can develop a sense of why their latest we're working on various wonderful things releases have corresponded with a wonderful stock rise now, and not at other times, I'd be interested to read your thoughts: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?d=ts=DYMTF.OB Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] FW: [SOLAR] NOW heliostat WAS new dish space frame crosspost
I'm hoping we can read more on the Indium-Gallium-Nitride solar cells. The Latest Technology Research News -- Material soaks up the sun By Kimberly Patch, Technology Research News December 11-25, 2002 http://www.trnmag.com/Stories/2002/121102/Material_soaks_up_the_sun_121102.html It will take three to four years to develop indium-nitride-based solar cell technology, said Walukiewicz. ~~ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re:To Chris problems sep. glycerine
Thank you Chris, But what can I do now to get clean glycerin ? I have tried it with different amounts of acid, and a slight separation is visible, which means that the top layer is very dark and the bottom layer is very very dark. Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands. - Original Message - From: Christopher Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 2:50 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Problems sep. glycerine Pieter, You might be using too much Sodium Hydroxide. That would explain why the sample became very hot when you added Phosphoric Acid. Acid-base neutralization is exothermic. That would also explain why you are not seeing a clear separation of FFA. It is because the phosphoric acid that is suppose to form FFA is used up in the neutralization reaction thus very little FFA is produced. Chris =-Original Message- =From: Ken Provost [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 6:10 AM =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Subject: Re: [biofuel] Problems sep. glycerine = = =on 6/22/03 1:36 PM, Pieter Koole at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = = Hello, = I am still trying to separate glycerin and FFA's, but = it does not work. = Now I used ¸ liter of the bottom layer ( from the very = bottom of the vessel ) and ¸ liter ( not ¸ ml. but ¸ liter ! ) = sulphuric acid ( 98% ) and all that happens : no separation. = = =Wow! Pi liters! I could never measure that close... :-) = = = What I see after several hours, is a top layer which = is about ² of the sample. This top layer is slightly = lighter in colour than the bottom layer, which is really = dark / black. = =I suspect the top layer is FFA and the bottom is glycerine. =(The FFA layer might even be sort of reddish. It's also =known as red oil.) = =You're using way to much H2SO4. A good way to see the FFA's =clearly is to dilute a small amount (maybe 100 l) of the =glycerine layer into a liter of water, so the dark color =of the glycerine is completely lost. Then add H2SO4 just =10 ml at a time, stirring 5 minutes each time, until a =dark red layer of FFA starts separating out in globules. =Let it sit a couple hours and all the FFA will be floating =on top. Smells weird. -K = = = =Biofuel at Journey to Forever: =http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html = =Biofuels list archives: =http://archive.nnytech.net/ = =Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. =To unsubscribe, send an email to: =[EMAIL PROTECTED] = =Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ = = Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, the scam artists at work.
Wow!!, thanks for the data. You really have done some research on this. What appears to be the ultimate answer to the alternative energy game and the clean air game is that of solar electric energy used at the instant of it's conversion from sun energy to electric energy since there would be no storage or conversion medium involved. Yes, there is one little problem involved with the 40 foot trailer full of solar panels making the electricity that would follow one everywhere they go. Since you agree with my thoughts that electric wins hands down, what can we now do to utilize the electricity generated by the panel while we are parked?? Inverters and feed the grid and other types of usage so we don't waste it? It would appear that if we could come up with batterys that would live the life of the car or nearly that and/or the panels were at home, they could produce one's hydrogen and supply the compressor horsepower to get your 3000 pounds in your tanks. Another smog cure if we don't find a fault with the burning of hydrogen in an ICE that troubles the environment. It appears that we have solutions but lack storage or fueling capacity and it's generation as the problems to solve. Thanks !! Bob robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert Mills wrote: Robert; my question; which energy, hydrogen or electricity, (per therm or 100,000 btu's or US gallon) would ultimately be the lowest energy cost for the operation of a motor vehicle on the roads as transportation using the numbers you previously used in your post? Thanks !! Bob That's a tough question! If we consider fuel costs alone, electricity wins by a wide margin. The typical electric car is roughly five times more efficient than an externally mixed, internal combustion engine--not a diesel. (I derive this from comparing the economy of my 2.3 liter gasoline Ranger to that of an electric Ranger owned by a frequent contributor to Usenet's sci.energy.hydrogen list.) The ugly secret of electric vehicles is that battery replacement is roughly equivalent to the fuel cost of a comparable gasoline model over a three or four year period of time. (This I discovered by comparing the battery replacement costs of an electric Mazda B 2000, which is essentially the same truck I own, after having a long talk with its owner.) In a hybrid, batteries should last considerably longer, and that may tip the dynamic entirely in the other direction. A hydrogen conversion for my truck would cost me at least $7 000 for the natural gas tanks, regulators and injectors, as well as the compressor to fill the tanks safely. (If ANYTHING at 3 000 psi is safe!) This is a little bit less than an electric conversion, but not by much. Commercial electrolyzers don't get sold to the average consumer, so I'd be stuck with one I can make myself. While this is easily done and relatively inexpensive (a few hundred dollars in materials), it's very hard to make an efficient electrolyzer without using platinized platinum anodes and cathodes and extremely thin separator membranes. (The best I've ever done is about 25% efficient, which means that a kilogram of hydrogen would require about 128 kWh of electricity to produce, and I'd have a LOT of waste heat left over.) Therefore, the cost of my fuel (really electricity in disguise) would be $7.68 per kilogram. So, one of two things needs to happen. Either I have access to REALLY CHEAP electricity, like a personal hydro system that generates excess current, or I have to find a very efficient electrolyzer. The former is not easily found, and trust me, I've been looking for a LONG time! The latter is too expensive, and not available to people like me anyway. However, we can put a biofuels angle on this. Hydrogen can be produced from sugars by the same bacteria responsible for methanogensis of carbon and nitrogen feedstocks. I've done this, and it's relatively easy. The trick is to find a really cheap source of sugar, and build a digester big enough to make it practical. In reality, biodiesel and ethanol are easier and likely more efficient. Personally, I think that hybrid electrics will be the most practical solution for most people who own and drive automobiles. Better yet, if driving can be avoided, it should be. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
[biofuel] On the horizon: a virtually perfect solar cell - was FW: [SOLAR] NOW heliostat WAS new dish space frame crosspost
Science Beat - Berkeley Lab On the horizon: a virtually perfect solar cell Contact: Paul Preuss December 17, 2002 http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/MSD-perfect-solar-cell.html Researchers in Berkeley Lab's Materials Sciences Division (MSD), working with crystal-growing teams at Cornell University and Japan's Ritsumeikan University, have learned that the bandgap of the semiconductor indium nitride is not 2 electron volts (2 eV) as previously thought, but is close to 0.7 eV. A technicality? Hardly. The photoelectronic properties of indium, gallium, and nitrogen alloyed together are well known at higher bandgaps, corresponding to low indium content. The low bandgap of indium nitride suggests that by simply varying proportions of indium and gallium, it may be possible to create rugged, inexpensive devices that can convert the full spectrum of sunlight to electric current. If so, these could be the most efficient solar cells ever created. The indium gallium nitride series of alloys is photoelectronically active over virtually the entire range of the solar spectrum. It's as if nature designed this material on purpose to match the solar spectrum, says MSD's Wladek Walukiewicz, who led the collaboration that made the discovery. Why bandgaps matter Bandgaps fundamentally limit the colors a solar cell can convert to electricity. A semiconductor's bandgap is not a physical space; rather it is the difference between the energy of the electrons in its filled valence band and the energy electrons would need to occupy its empty conduction band. Charge cannot flow in either a completely full or a completely empty band, but doping a semiconductor provides extra electrons or positively charged holes that can carry a current. Photons with just the right energy -- the color of light that matches the bandgap -- create electron-hole pairs and let current flow across the junction between positively and negatively doped layers. Photons with less energy than the bandgap slip right through the material. Photons with too much are absorbed, but since each creates just one electron-hole pair, the excess energy is wasted as heat. A one-layer solar cell with a single bandgap can theoretically reach a maximum of about 30 percent efficiency in converting light to power. The best efficiency achieved so far, using gallium arsenide with a 1.43 eV bandgap, is about 25 percent. To do better, researchers and manufacturers stack materials with different bandgaps in so-called multijunction cells. In principle, dozens of different layers could be stacked to catch photons at all energies, for efficiencies better than 70 percent -- but a host of problems intervenes. If the dimensions of adjacent crystal lattices differ too much, for example, strain damages the crystals. Other limits are imposed by opacity, poor heat capacity, and the need in some materials for thick layers to absorb photons. Most solar cells are made from silicon. Cheap, amorphous silicon-based solar cells have efficiencies of less than 10 percent, and the efficiencies of even the most advanced single-crystal silicon cells are limited to about 21 percent. That's because silicon is an indirect bandgap semiconductor, in which creation of an electron-hole pair requires participation of the crystal lattice vibrations, wasting a lot of an incoming photon's energy. In direct bandgap semiconductors, however, light of the right energy does not vibrate the lattice; thus it creates electron-hole pairs more efficiently. All direct-bandgap semiconductors combine elements from group III of the periodic table, like aluminum, gallium, or indium, with elements from group V, like nitrogen, phosphorus, or arsenic. The most efficient multijunction solar cell yet made -- 30 percent, out of a theoretically possible 50 percent efficiency -- combines just two materials, gallium arsenide and gallium indium phosphide. Gallium indium phosphide is a ternary compound, in which two elements from group III are alloyed with one from group V. It was Berkeley Lab's investigation of a related ternary compound that opened startling new possibilities for multijunction solar cells. The first clues came not from studying how semiconductors absorb light to create electrical power -- but from the reverse. A nearly perfect solar cell, part 2 http://enews.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/MSD-perfect-solar-cell-2.html - Science Beat - Berkeley Lab A nearly perfect solar cell, part 2 Contact: Paul Preuss December 17, 2002 http://enews.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/MSD-perfect-solar-cell-2.html Clues from blue light We were studying the properties of indium nitride as a component of LEDs, says Wladek Walukiewicz. But even though its bandgap was reported to be 2 ev, nobody could get light out of it at 2 eV. All our efforts failed. In lasers and
[biofuel] A Website to report unsafe roadways in the U.S.
http://www.sandyjohnsonfoundation.org/assets/main.php?section=intersectionsstate=CA# Finally. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re:To Chris problems sep. glycerine
Pieter, The answer is simple. You most probably can't using readily available resources. While you may be able to find some way to bleach and deodorize the glycerin after FFA separation and alcohol removal, you won't be able to improve its purity level unless you distill the glycerin, or at least the water that resides in it. Glycerin boils at over 550* F, conserably less under vacuum, which is the norm in industry but still energy and engineering intense. And then you have to distill the evaporated glycerin. I believe Keith has pointed to a few solvent reclaimers out there. But they run in the thousands and tens of thousands of dollars. Glycerin refining to the degree that you're suggesting is, at the home brewer level, a bit akin to the holy grail. Nobody's found it yet. Of course you could always ferment the glycerin and convert it to ethanol. That is if you don't have any particular aversion to working with strains of botulinus. Don't think your neighbors, family, friends or the borough health department would be too thrilled with you though. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 2:22 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re:To Chris problems sep. glycerine Thank you Chris, But what can I do now to get clean glycerin ? I have tried it with different amounts of acid, and a slight separation is visible, which means that the top layer is very dark and the bottom layer is very very dark. Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands. - Original Message - From: Christopher Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 2:50 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Problems sep. glycerine Pieter, You might be using too much Sodium Hydroxide. That would explain why the sample became very hot when you added Phosphoric Acid. Acid-base neutralization is exothermic. That would also explain why you are not seeing a clear separation of FFA. It is because the phosphoric acid that is suppose to form FFA is used up in the neutralization reaction thus very little FFA is produced. Chris =-Original Message- =From: Ken Provost [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 6:10 AM =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Subject: Re: [biofuel] Problems sep. glycerine = = =on 6/22/03 1:36 PM, Pieter Koole at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = = Hello, = I am still trying to separate glycerin and FFA's, but = it does not work. = Now I used ¸ liter of the bottom layer ( from the very = bottom of the vessel ) and ¸ liter ( not ¸ ml. but ¸ liter ! ) = sulphuric acid ( 98% ) and all that happens : no separation. = = =Wow! Pi liters! I could never measure that close... :-) = = = What I see after several hours, is a top layer which = is about ² of the sample. This top layer is slightly = lighter in colour than the bottom layer, which is really = dark / black. = =I suspect the top layer is FFA and the bottom is glycerine. =(The FFA layer might even be sort of reddish. It's also =known as red oil.) = =You're using way to much H2SO4. A good way to see the FFA's =clearly is to dilute a small amount (maybe 100 l) of the =glycerine layer into a liter of water, so the dark color =of the glycerine is completely lost. Then add H2SO4 just =10 ml at a time, stirring 5 minutes each time, until a =dark red layer of FFA starts separating out in globules. =Let it sit a couple hours and all the FFA will be floating =on top. Smells weird. -K = = = =Biofuel at Journey to Forever: =http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html = =Biofuels list archives: =http://archive.nnytech.net/ = =Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. =To unsubscribe, send an email to: =[EMAIL PROTECTED] = =Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ = = Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
RE: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, the scam artists at work.
look at magnesium-aluminum hydride. Much lighter and cheaper than iron-titanium. You could use a small iron-titanium to start the engine and run it a few minutes until the exhaust heat activated the Mg-Al. Kirk -Original Message- From: Robert Mills [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 4:16 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, the scam artists at work. Wow!!, thanks for the data. You really have done some research on this. What appears to be the ultimate answer to the alternative energy game and the clean air game is that of solar electric energy used at the instant of it's conversion from sun energy to electric energy since there would be no storage or conversion medium involved. Yes, there is one little problem involved with the 40 foot trailer full of solar panels making the electricity that would follow one everywhere they go. Since you agree with my thoughts that electric wins hands down, what can we now do to utilize the electricity generated by the panel while we are parked?? Inverters and feed the grid and other types of usage so we don't waste it? It would appear that if we could come up with batterys that would live the life of the car or nearly that and/or the panels were at home, they could produce one's hydrogen and supply the compressor horsepower to get your 3000 pounds in your tanks. Another smog cure if we don't find a fault with the burning of hydrogen in an ICE that troubles the environment. It appears that we have solutions but lack storage or fueling capacity and it's generation as the problems to solve. Thanks !! Bob robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert Mills wrote: Robert; my question; which energy, hydrogen or electricity, (per therm or 100,000 btu's or US gallon) would ultimately be the lowest energy cost for the operation of a motor vehicle on the roads as transportation using the numbers you previously used in your post? Thanks !! Bob That's a tough question! If we consider fuel costs alone, electricity wins by a wide margin. The typical electric car is roughly five times more efficient than an externally mixed, internal combustion engine--not a diesel. (I derive this from comparing the economy of my 2.3 liter gasoline Ranger to that of an electric Ranger owned by a frequent contributor to Usenet's sci.energy.hydrogen list.) The ugly secret of electric vehicles is that battery replacement is roughly equivalent to the fuel cost of a comparable gasoline model over a three or four year period of time. (This I discovered by comparing the battery replacement costs of an electric Mazda B 2000, which is essentially the same truck I own, after having a long talk with its owner.) In a hybrid, batteries should last considerably longer, and that may tip the dynamic entirely in the other direction. A hydrogen conversion for my truck would cost me at least $7 000 for the natural gas tanks, regulators and injectors, as well as the compressor to fill the tanks safely. (If ANYTHING at 3 000 psi is safe!) This is a little bit less than an electric conversion, but not by much. Commercial electrolyzers don't get sold to the average consumer, so I'd be stuck with one I can make myself. While this is easily done and relatively inexpensive (a few hundred dollars in materials), it's very hard to make an efficient electrolyzer without using platinized platinum anodes and cathodes and extremely thin separator membranes. (The best I've ever done is about 25% efficient, which means that a kilogram of hydrogen would require about 128 kWh of electricity to produce, and I'd have a LOT of waste heat left over.) Therefore, the cost of my fuel (really electricity in disguise) would be $7.68 per kilogram. So, one of two things needs to happen. Either I have access to REALLY CHEAP electricity, like a personal hydro system that generates excess current, or I have to find a very efficient electrolyzer. The former is not easily found, and trust me, I've been looking for a LONG time! The latter is too expensive, and not available to people like me anyway. However, we can put a biofuels angle on this. Hydrogen can be produced from sugars by the same bacteria responsible for methanogensis of carbon and nitrogen feedstocks. I've done this, and it's relatively easy. The trick is to find a really cheap source of sugar, and build a digester big enough to make it practical. In reality, biodiesel and ethanol are easier and likely more efficient. Personally, I think that hybrid electrics will be the most practical solution for most people who own and drive automobiles. Better yet, if driving can be avoided, it should be. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives:
Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, the scam artists at work.
kirk wrote: look at magnesium-aluminum hydride. Much lighter and cheaper than iron-titanium. You could use a small iron-titanium to start the engine and run it a few minutes until the exhaust heat activated the Mg-Al. Kirk Magnesium hydride holds about 6% of its weight in hydrogen. Finding an inexpensive source for activated hydride isn't easy, nor is it cheap. (Also, contamination with water or oxygen may cause spontaneous combustion!) Further, magnesium - aluminum hydride requires about 32 000 Btu to release 1 kilogram of hydrogen--this is a LOT of energy (about a third of the energy in a kilogram of H2) and even engine exhaust may be hard pressed to supply it. Iron-titanium holds about 1 1 / 2 of its weight in hydrogen, but has the advantage of operating at lower temperatures. The last time I figured out how much hydride I'd need to get back and forth from work, the hydride alone would cost nearly $15 000. Hydride is by far the safest way to store hydrogen. Sadly, it's also one of the most expensive! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Hydrogen hype?
Cheaper Way Found to Produce Hydrogen June 26, 2003 08:03 PM EDT WASHINGTON - Organic wastes such as paper mill sludge or cheese whey can be converted into hydrogen using an inexpensive metal catalyst, researchers say, in a process that could boost efforts to replace oil and gas fuels. Researchers at the University of Wisconsin tested more than 300 metal combinations before finding that a mix of nickel, tin and aluminum could separate hydrogen from a mixture rich in glucose, a sugar common in many organic wastes. A report on the study appears Friday in the journal Science. Glenn L. Schrader, a National Science Foundation chemical engineer who supervises grants for hydrogen research projects, said the catalyst could be a significant advance in efforts to develop a hydrogen-based energy system. We really need to develop fuel cells that use metals cheaper than platinum and this work provides a very promising lead, he said. Many experts believe that hydrogen eventually will replace oil and gas as the energy that drives industry and transportation. Hydrogen burns cleanly and there is an almost unlimited supply. A major technical problem has been finding a cheap way to separate hydrogen from other compounds and to store the fuel efficiently and safely. The most likely immediate application of hydrogen would be in fuel cells, which combine hydrogen and oxygen to make electricity, heat and water. James Dumesic, a professor of chemical engineering at the University of Wisconsin and lead author of the study, said the combination metal catalyst worked as efficiently in laboratory tests as a much more expense platinum catalyst, and at a lower temperature and pressure. Platinum is known to be excellent for chemically separating hydrogen, but the rare metal cost about $8,000 a pound, many times more than the tin, nickel and aluminum used in the Wisconsin device, experts said. Dumesic said the hydrogen catalyst is, in effect, a pressure cooker filled with pellets made of nickel, tin and aluminum. A stream of raw stock rich in glucose and heated to 437 degrees is introduced into the device. The glucose reacts with the metal pellets, and hydrogen and carbon dioxide separate from the mix. The hydrogen and carbon dioxide kind of bubble up, said Dumesic. The gas is piped away and then cooled. Dumesic said the hydrogen-carbon dioxide mix could be used as a fuel in some applications or the CO2 could be separated out using a second, simpler process. Catalysts made of nickel and aluminum do produce hydrogen, but also methane, an unwanted pollutant. By adding more tin to the combination, the production of methane was halted, while the production of hydrogen was increased, Dumesic said. Dumesic said the Wisconsin device, using the combination of common metals, could reduce the catalyst cost by 10 to 100 times. In theory, the catalyst could use any organic waste flow rich in glucose as a feed stock. Dumesic said he and his associates are now developing a system that would produce about one kilowatt of power. He said if the pilot plant works as expected, then the first application may be at dairy processing plant, such as a cheese factory, where dairy wastes could be used as the feed stock. Waste from pulp mill, corn processing plants, or food processing factories could be a source of hydrogen, said Dumesic. The combination metal catalyst has been patented and is controlled by the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation. Dumesic said he is co-founder of a company that has been licensed to the use the patent in developing energy systems. He said he has a personal financial interest in the success of the effort. --- On the Net: Science: www.sciencemag.org Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
