Re: [biofuel] Two-Stage Process Question
Hello Mark, I can mention that from a beginner's perspective, starting with pure vegetable oil and single stage base is a really valuable learning process. It gives you an idea of what outcomes look like, and the shake test provides feedback on the quality of the process. I am still playing around with variables (processing time, %lye, %methanol, etc.) using pure vegetable oil, before moving to waste vegetable oil. As many people continue to emphasize, process quality is really important, and that seems to be best learned in small steps. My game plan is also to get to the 2 stage acid/base with waste vegetable oil, but I still have a lot to learn before getting there. I think what the experienced folks are cautioning is that troubleshooting a more complex process is extremely difficult (and perhaps frustrating) if you don't have a solid grounding in the basics. I hope this helps. Good luck with your experiments! Regards, Derek === Iâve been reading up about the Two-Stage Process for making biodiesel and Iâm thinking of giving it a try, the question I have is how much more difficult is it to do? Most of the stuff Iâve read states the ãmore advancedä homebrewers should try it. Other than no titration and pouring ² of the catalyst in then draining the glycerin then adding the rest of the catalyst. This doesnât sound difficult at all, in fact it sounds easier since there is no need to titrate· So what am I missing?? MarkieB [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links -- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Two-Stage Process Question
on 8/2/04 10:26 AM, Mark Bowman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Iâve been reading up about the Two-Stage Process for making biodiesel and Iâm thinking of giving it a try.Most of the stuff Iâve read states the ãmore advancedä homebrewers should try it. This doesnât sound difficult at all, in fact it sounds easier since there is no need to titrate. So what am I missing?? If everything goes exactly right, nothing. The problem is when something doesn't, and you have NO IDEA what's going on cuz you've never seen all the possible quirks of even the basic process. ..What's all this white stuff?. Nothing seems to be happening. There's this weird layer, and I'm wondering if it's biodiesel.etc etc. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Two-Stage Process Question
NOTE: The two-stage biodiesel processes are advanced methods, not for novices This is exactly what I'm questioning. Is it the theory and chemistry of biodiesel that a novice is to understand first before attempting the two-stage process, or are the steps for two-stage so critical/dangerous that novices should not attempt under any circumstances?? MarkieB -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] oo.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] oups.yahoo.com] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 12:35 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Two-Stage Process Question Hello Mark, welcome Iâve been reading up about the Two-Stage Process for making biodiesel and Iâm thinking of giving it a try, the question I have is how much more difficult is it to do? Most of the stuff Iâve read states the ãmore advancedä homebrewers should try it. Other than no titration and pouring ² of the catalyst in then draining the glycerin then adding the rest of the catalyst. This doesnât sound difficult at all, in fact it sounds easier since there is no need to titrate· So what am I missing?? MarkieB The two-stage processes are not the place to start making biodiesel. It says right at the top of the page: NOTE: The two-stage biodiesel processes are advanced methods, not for novices -- learn the basics thoroughly first. The single-stage base method is the place to start. Start here. Here being here - single stage, with new oil: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start There was some discussion about this at the list recently, please see these two previous posts: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/35241/ Re: What went wrong? http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/35214/ Re: What went wrong? Best wishes Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Two-Stage Process Question
Keith, I guess I fired off my reply to your answer a wee bit too quick after reading the links to the discussion groups that you attached I see that the basics is to get a feel of the process and see the correct colors and textures using the process that has the best chance of success, then use that as a baseline for future mini batches using WVO. Then progress to larger scaled processing, then full scaled process, and then finally graduate to the two-stage method, with knowledge that the resultant biodiesel is clean and pure enough to run through my beloved TDI. Thanks MarkieB -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] oo.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] oups.yahoo.com] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 12:35 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Two-Stage Process Question Hello Mark, welcome Iâve been reading up about the Two-Stage Process for making biodiesel and Iâm thinking of giving it a try, the question I have is how much more difficult is it to do? Most of the stuff Iâve read states the ãmore advancedä homebrewers should try it. Other than no titration and pouring ² of the catalyst in then draining the glycerin then adding the rest of the catalyst. This doesnât sound difficult at all, in fact it sounds easier since there is no need to titrate· So what am I missing?? MarkieB The two-stage processes are not the place to start making biodiesel. It says right at the top of the page: NOTE: The two-stage biodiesel processes are advanced methods, not for novices -- learn the basics thoroughly first. The single-stage base method is the place to start. Start here. Here being here - single stage, with new oil: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start There was some discussion about this at the list recently, please see these two previous posts: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/35241/ Re: What went wrong? http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/35214/ Re: What went wrong? Best wishes Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: [wastewatts] Planning a Trade show.
reply direct, he's probably not on this list. Mailing-List: list [EMAIL PROTECTED]; contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 09:37:04 - Subject: [wastewatts] Planning a Trade show. Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fellow listers: My partner and I are in the initial planning stages to have a trade show on any and all things to do with Alternate Energy and Off-Grid living. Our first show will be held in Toronto, Ontario (we are, after all, Canadian). However, if there are any manufacturers, vendors, etc., that are on the lists (especially with Canaidan reps/dealers) and would like to receive an Exhibitor information package, please feel free to email me off-list with postal information. We expect the package to be ready by mid-september with an April 2005 show date. Also, folks like Marc Cardoso that would be willing to be paid for lectures, please also send me your postal information and the field (s) you are able to speak on. To the best of our knowledge, this is the first show of it's specific kind in Canada (if not North America). A well rounded show coving Wind, Solar heat/electric, Woodgas, Fuel Cells, EVs and Hybrids, inverters/converters, integrators The list is endless. I think it is about time that large public shows of this nature start happening. The price of a barrel of oil will likely top $75 next year. The general public at-large will want to be knowing this stuff real soon. Lastly, if you are a member of other lists/groups that this notice may be beneficial, please let me know so I may join and post this, or forward this to that list. Many thanks. John Mullan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Lumpy BD
Thanks, Just seeing how people are stir washing. James On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Keith Addison wrote: Keith, just a question. How are you doing the stir washing? With a stirrer. Using the pump, or actually using a stirring mechanism? I saw the thread on what Todd was saying about pump washing and was interesed on if and how people are doing that. We don't have a spare pump, and would rather keep any water out of the processor mixing pump, which probably does enough already without adding washing to its burden. Best Keith Thanks, James On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Keith Addison wrote: snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=551058911] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hybrid vehicle technologies - a question
--- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Donald I have a question about the currently available hybrid vehicles which I have been wondering about for a while. It seems that all the hybrid vehicles currently available have an electric motor connected in varying configurations with a petrol (gasoline) engine. My question is, why not a Diesel engine? Given that the aim of a hybrid vehicle is to increase fuel economy, it would seem sensible to choose the most economical internal combustion engine available, however it seems that _none_ of them do - there must be a reason for this, but this reason escapes me. Peugeot-Citroen is actually developing a diesel hybrid, and there is information to be found saying that diesel hybrid is the best currently useable technology. Here are some links that I found on google: http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_volkswagen_tests_hybrid/ http://www.all4engineers.com/preview.php?cms=lng=enalloc=1id=2112 this is a motorcycle, but very interesting: http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=228382fSectionId=896fSetId=381 http://www.hybridcars.com/news/citroen_hybrid.html here's a report recommending diesel-hybrids over fuel cells, but it's put out by the lead-acid battery consortium, so they have a vested interest in the one over the other (tho at least they cite their sources): http://www.alabc.org/2003_newsletters/KPv1_03.PDF http://www.bucknell.edu/communications/releases/Archives%202003/2003-04%20fall%20semester/hybrid%20vehicles%208-26-03.htm sorry about the length of some of those links. you'll just have to cut and paste them back together to take a look at the longer ones. erik __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hybrid vehicle technologies - a question
Hi Keith, Yes, the list archives does. :-) First though, there are quite a lot of diesel hybrids, in things like buses, not cars. And of course trains. snip Thanks for your reply - it's now put me much more in the picture. Now I thought I was so cynical about this world that I wouldn't fail to spot the obvious political motives for decisions that don't seem to make much sense - and I totally failed to spot this one, I had presumed there was some technological reason for it not being much more common. Perhaps that's why I am a technologist rather than a politician :-) Having said that, most of the articles you point to do seem to be largely based on US political decisions, and I don't think I had ever really assumed that Diesel hybrids would ever come out of the US - purely because Diesel fuel is not commonly used there in private cars. Diesel engines are very common here in Europe, and a quick glance at the technical data for new Diesel engines shows them to be a lot more efficient even than my 1996 engine - there's a lot of exciting stuff going on in Diesel engine technology at the moment (and biodiesel/SVO use is just a part of this). I suspect these improvements haven't run out of steam yet either, and over the next 10 years we will see further refinements. Given this, and the fact that petrol-based hybrid technology is reaching a good level of maturity, it seems to me that to produce a Diesel hybrid should be almost trivially easy to do - there is no technology involved that hasn't reached a high level of maturity when used in a different configuration. And I don't see there being a marketing barrier either, at least in the UK. Running cost is a very important consideration when choosing a car, and I would have thought people who choose a Toyota Prius or Honda Insight (as far as I know the only commercially available hybrids marketed in the UK at the moment) would prefer to decrease their running costs even further, given the option. I had not considered hybrid use in buses or trains, but I am reminded of one electric bus project in Camden, London (if I remember correctly). These are purely driven by electricity, and the batteries are topped up every time the bus reaches the depot. This isn't long enough to fully recharge them, but as buses run a fixed route it is easy to predict energy use reasonably accurately and fit batteries sufficient to last the day with top up charging on a cycle that is dictated by the timetable. So far so good. However there was one crucial detail that was overlooked - namely that not all the heat 'wasted' by an internal combustion engine is actually wasted, as it is used to heat the interior of the bus in winter. Highly efficient electric motors of course do not generate enough 'waste' heat. The solution? Diesel-powered heaters were fitted for the winter months! Regards, Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hybrid vehicle technologies - a question
Hi Erik, --- Erik Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peugeot-Citroen is actually developing a diesel hybrid, and there is information to be found saying that diesel hybrid is the best currently useable technology. Here are some links that I found on google: http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_volkswagen_tests_hybrid/ http://www.all4engineers.com/preview.php?cms=lng=enalloc=1id=2112 this is a motorcycle, but very interesting: http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=228382fSectionId=896fSetId=381 http://www.hybridcars.com/news/citroen_hybrid.html here's a report recommending diesel-hybrids over fuel cells, but it's put out by the lead-acid battery consortium, so they have a vested interest in the one over the other (tho at least they cite their sources): http://www.alabc.org/2003_newsletters/KPv1_03.PDF http://www.bucknell.edu/communications/releases/Archives%202003/2003-04%20fall%20semester/hybrid%20vehicles%208-26-03.htm sorry about the length of some of those links. you'll just have to cut and paste them back together to take a look at the longer ones. erik Thanks for the links - I must admit I hadn't done a very thorough search of what's currently in development (as opposed to already in the market), but if these sites are to believed then Diesel hybrids are just around the corner. I hope these projects make it into the market and don't get their funding cut at the last minute. Interestingly, there seems to be a definite split between the hydrogen power and fuel cells will save the world community and the the world can be saved by more intelligent use of current technology, such as hybrid technology community. In the latter I would also put increased use of public transport as being a core aim. I'm not sure how much of this is down to vested interests putting across their point of view. All the talk of hydrogen power to me seems a long way off making any useful contribution, as with current technology most of it will be produced using non-renewable electricity. However it's seen as being sexier - maybe the hydrogen proponents have done a better job of marketing to alter public perception? Regards, Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] NCWM Adopts New Blend Specifications
FWIW - National Biodiesel Board Biodiesel Bulletin - August 2, 2004 NCWM Adopts New Blend Specifications The full body of the National Conference on Weights and Measures unanimously adopted a recommendation by the National Biodiesel Board (NBB) to withdraw a proposed requirement that all biodiesel blends meet the national specification for petroleum diesel. This is significant because there are biodiesel properties that are different than petroleum diesel, so not all blends will meet the diesel specification, said Scott Hughes, NBB regulatory manager. This decision is positive for the biodiesel industry. Many states are presently looking to NCWM for guidance on fuel specifications for biodiesel and blends, and they will likely implement the standards adopted by NCWM. NCWM is a professional organization that promotes uniformity in U.S. weights and measures laws, regulations, and standards to achieve equity between buyers and sellers in the marketplace. NCWM also recently voted to define biodiesel in a way that is consistent with current industry practice. The organization adopted the official definition of biodiesel from the American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM). NCWM added a definition of biodiesel blend - including that the base fuels must meet their individual ASTM specifications (D 975 and D 6751) prior to blending. An exception is included for diesel fuel that allows for the blending of diesel that is out of spec for sulfur and aromatics so long as the properties for both in a finished blend meet pertinent national and local specifications. NCWM tabled a proposed requirement to adopt identification and labeling requirements, pending further discussion on to what extent biodiesel blends must be labeled at the pump and what the language on pump labels should say. The organization has asked for NBBâs input on this important matter. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hybrid vehicle technologies - a question
Hi Donald, Welcome to the rest of the world, all except North America, have worked on a higher use of diesel for many years now. Brazil went the Alcohol way, but seams to pick up biodiesel now again. The interesting thing is that all diesel fuel in Brazil will be minimum B2 from coming November, by regulation, as I understand it. It is also interesting that Brazil only imports 1/3 of their diesel fuel and with the new discoveries, could be self supplied for some times to come. Europe work on a 50% use of personal diesel cars by 2020 and are already using around 30 times more than US, around 30%, compared with US 1% for personal cars. Since 1996 all the European diesels are biodiesel compatible. In Germany, Austria and France, biodiesel mix B20, start to be readily available. Diesel engine, as a ready for use energy saving technology. http://energysavingnow.com/biofuels/dieseltech.shtml Volkswagen symposium unveils diesel strategies. http://energysavingnow.com/biofuels/vwdiesels.shtml VW expect that the Americans will discover the use of diesel and biodiesel around 2006. A couple of years and maybe a regime change is needed. We cannot do it the American way, but maybe it will come about peacefully anyway. Hakan At 02:54 03/08/2004, you wrote: Hi Erik, --- Erik Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peugeot-Citroen is actually developing a diesel hybrid, and there is information to be found saying that diesel hybrid is the best currently useable technology. Here are some links that I found on google: http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_volkswagen_tests_hybrid/http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_volkswagen_tests_hybrid/ http://www.all4engineers.com/preview.php?cms=lng=enalloc=1id=2112 this is a motorcycle, but very interesting: http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=228382fSectionId=896fSetId=381http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=228382fSectionId=896fSetId=381 http://www.hybridcars.com/news/citroen_hybrid.html here's a report recommending diesel-hybrids over fuel cells, but it's put out by the lead-acid battery consortium, so they have a vested interest in the one over the other (tho at least they cite their sources): http://www.alabc.org/2003_newsletters/KPv1_03.PDFhttp://www.alabc.org/2003_newsletters/KPv1_03.PDF http://www.bucknell.edu/communications/releases/Archives%202003/2003-04%20fall%20semester/hybrid%20vehicles%208-26-03.htm sorry about the length of some of those links. you'll just have to cut and paste them back together to take a look at the longer ones. erik Thanks for the links - I must admit I hadn't done a very thorough search of what's currently in development (as opposed to already in the market), but if these sites are to believed then Diesel hybrids are just around the corner. I hope these projects make it into the market and don't get their funding cut at the last minute. Interestingly, there seems to be a definite split between the hydrogen power and fuel cells will save the world community and the the world can be saved by more intelligent use of current technology, such as hybrid technology community. In the latter I would also put increased use of public transport as being a core aim. I'm not sure how much of this is down to vested interests putting across their point of view. All the talk of hydrogen power to me seems a long way off making any useful contribution, as with current technology most of it will be produced using non-renewable electricity. However it's seen as being sexier - maybe the hydrogen proponents have done a better job of marketing to alter public perception? Regards, Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Engine life and cold starting
Teoman, Check out an Accusump, http://www.accusump.com/ I think 12v electric preoiler pumps are made too. They all seem to be expensive though, I think a person could fabricate an accumulator or preoiler for not too much if they are handy. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just changed the oil to my Hyundai Starex 2.5L van and on the oil it said that 75 % engine wear happens while the engine is warming. Would it do any good if the water in the engine was heated with a kettle resistance or some other device? Or is the wear caused more by the the fact that the engine is not well oiled when you start it up? If so then maby one could use the starter motor with low apms to turn it slowly a few times for it to oil itself, and then start. Heating the engine could help SVO users aswell. Maby a kettle resistance in a Piece of PVC pump and a washingmachine pump put in series with the output of the radiator can do this??? But ofcourse you would need a plug in your carpark or whereever. Maby a small diesel stove? Teoman __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] % diesel used versus amount of wvo available
Keith, John, Thanks for the response. Hopefully the Club Sierra will be fairly well controled, if for no other reason than I was invited by one of the directors! :-) As far as the right questions to ask: My approach is that no one solution is going to fix the problem. The problem is far to complex and developed over to many years. But as any MBA knows, the real cost is always at the margin: What would happen if we reduced our dependance on foriegn oil by 2%? 5%? Prices may not go down much but they would certainly tend to go down if all other things remaining the same. Of course demand won't remain the same, its going to go up as it has been for years. And that needs to be addressed. But as for me, thats a topic for another day... I'm focusing on the topic of my talk: A Step in the Right Direction Steve --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Steve I'm preparing a presentation to the local Sierra club and I can't seem to find the statistic on the amount of wvo available in the US versus the amount of diesel fuel used. :-) If you mention the D-word there the sky will fall on your head. Actually, if you can even get them to listen, you're doing very well! Good for you. Others here have tried and got nowhere. Which might be why it's often known here as Club Sierra. If you find accurate data on the amount of WVO available in the US, let alone it's fate, then again you're doing much better than anyone else here has done. (Please let us know!) The best we can do is that it's about 2 or 3 billion gallons a year, and that about 10% of it is accounted for, which is about average for the OECD countries. Estimates we've seen for the US, the UK and other industrialised countries vary by up to a factor of 10. Which is quite an eye-opener in itself. If you can't get accurate figures, that very fact is worth presenting - why not? Yet we're supposed to pretend that government or anyone else is taking biofuels and climate change seriously? I can see you're trying to answer the usual question of whether there'll be enough biofuels. We tend to think it's the wrong question. Enough for what? To replace current fossil-fuel use? Or some estimate of future use, based on projections of current growth rates? That's what the US DoE has done in its estimates for biodiesel expansion. Why would current growth rates be sustainable, no matter what fuel was used? Current usage rates aren't sustainable either. The related question is How much biofuels can we grow? The answer, based on the same fallacy, is usually, Not enough, so let's just forget the whole thing. People have said this is a tactic used to dismiss alternatives, picking them off this way one by one - as if current energy supply is dependent on only one source, only one technology. A rational and sustainable energy future requires great reductions in energy use, great improvements in energy efficiency, and the decentralisation of supply to the local level, along with the use of all available renewable technologie in combination as the local circumstances demand. That makes for rather a different prospect for WVO's role in future fuel supplies. The total vegetable oil that could be made into diesel would be a nice figure too. Again, wrong question. Any number you get would be meaningless. Please have a look at these previous messages: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/37289/ Re: [biofuel] Biofuels and sustainability http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1801/ Re: Biofuels hold key to future of British farming http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1395/ How much fuel can we grow? HTH Best Keith Anyone have that around? Thanks! Steve __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Engine life and cold starting
Hi Teoman, cutdownatree2 You can find the range of options outlined here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html Biodiesel in winter: Journey to Forever Best wishes Keith Teoman, Check out an Accusump, http://www.accusump.com/ I think 12v electric preoiler pumps are made too. They all seem to be expensive though, I think a person could fabricate an accumulator or preoiler for not too much if they are handy. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just changed the oil to my Hyundai Starex 2.5L van and on the oil it said that 75 % engine wear happens while the engine is warming. Would it do any good if the water in the engine was heated with a kettle resistance or some other device? Or is the wear caused more by the the fact that the engine is not well oiled when you start it up? If so then maby one could use the starter motor with low apms to turn it slowly a few times for it to oil itself, and then start. Heating the engine could help SVO users aswell. Maby a kettle resistance in a Piece of PVC pump and a washingmachine pump put in series with the output of the radiator can do this??? But ofcourse you would need a plug in your carpark or whereever. Maby a small diesel stove? Teoman Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a question about time and bio diesel!!
Hi Mohamed It was discussed recently. This was the final message in the thread, the others are in the table: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/37220/1/ Extending storage life of biodiesel dear group memes i have a question about the effect of time on Bio diesel i was wandering what will be the affect of time or the degradation of bio diesel with time what effects it will have on the power out put and emissions are there any papers on the topic has any one looked at this before or asked about it If only we could find some degraded biodiesel maybe we could find out! I don't think age has any effect on power and emissions if it's stored properly. many thanks in advance Mohamed Best wishes Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
