date:20050714

lol

well, yeah, that's what 'staying on message' means for a bunch like this.  
little more than a gang of technothugs, or thugocrats or something like that.  
or wait, how about. . . ?

-chris b.

In a message dated 7/14/05 7:39:31 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< No, no, no, no, no.


It's called "lying on cue. . . ." >>


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Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (preelectronic injectorcontrol)

chris, there is a definite decline in vw reliability since around the end of 
the '90s.  add to that the fact that vw parts are more expensive than most, it 
becomes a double whammy.  i really loved my old 85 jetta, but boy those parts 
were expensive. odds are that when i do get me that diesel, it'll be a vw, 
though.  there aren't a lot of other choices here in the states.

-chris b.

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Re: [Biofuel] Deconstructing the Nuclear Power Myths

2005-07-14 Thread Michael Chajkowski

To any and all who may be interesting in my two bits.

As a relatively long time watcher of this list, it has been my
experience that the issues raised by the press releases that are sent to
this list by the super well read Keith Addison are both important to be
published, and appealing in terms of at least tangential interest to
anyone who is at least curious about both our world and our impact on
said world.

Not to mention . . . "judicious" us of the delete key can be almost
completely avoided by using an up to date email application, and use a
rule set to filter out the discussions that may offend your
sensibilities.

A grain of salt may be required to digest anything that I say.

Michael

On Wed, 2005-13-07 at 18:09 -0500, Richard Littrell wrote:
> Dear Hakan,
> 
> I may be naive as I am fairly new to the list but it looks to me like 
> the question grew out of a ISIS press release about nuclear power. As I 
> am more interested in biofuels myself I'd hate to get into a long thing 
> that would detract from that but I am curious as to the answer to Joey's 
> question as the technology in all areas of energy generation seem to be 
> changing almost daily.
> 
> Rick

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Re: [Biofuel] It's imperialism, stupid

Whoa there Todd!

I'm sure it's not double standards, Hakan just changed tracks. It's 
the same track as the argument over "sacred cows" (false sacred 
cows), or my saying things like "Fine critters, cockroaches", and so 
on, the point being that too often in our disparaging comparisons of 
humans with other creatures we unintentionally slander the other 
creatures, which generally aren't like that at all. Everybody does 
it, it's very difficult not to, the language is peppered with it. So 
Foxy's POV should not go amiss.

On the other hand, Hakan used to post this sig sometimes:

"If it looks like a Duck, talks like a Duck and
walks like a Duck, it must be George W. Bush"

Hakan

Which risks the ire of the .
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg35585.html
Re: [biofuel] defamation is Bush/cheney

Anyway, nobody got called a bitch except Foxy, which is as it should 
be. The one thing that was upsetting me about all this was the idea 
that anyone would call Kim a bitch, even though nobody did. Thanks 
for the poem Kim.

Sweetness and light.

Keith

For what it's worth, these are the words that Master Brodie used 
relative to my acknowledging that someone was bitching (complaining) 
about something.

>> "I notice that he uses words like 'bitch' when in the context
>>of corresponding with a woman, which in other circles would
>> border on intimidation."

Let it be know, Mr. Brodie, that I use the word "bitch" universally, 
not gender selective as you imply.

The following are the words actually spoken to Kim, in response to 
this statement from her.

> I joined this list to talk about how to create & run engines on
> biofuel, now I find I'm bombarded with talk show chatter in
> my e-mail box?

>>> You bitch about opposing view point and then go on to read
>>> a full page, chapter and verse, as to the opinions of your favorite,
>>> radical, right-wing, "so-ultra-'conservative'-as-to-have-long-since
>>> -fallen-off-the-edge-of- the-flat-Earth" talk show host yesterday.
>>> What's up with that?

I guess Tim and everyone else missed her remark disparaging the 
words of those other than herself as "talk show chatter" even though 
she posted a full page of "talk show chatter" from Rush Lamebrain 
(Limbaugh). Unfortunately, rather than acknowledge the obvious 
double standard, Mr. Brodie would rather focus on what was never 
written, much less implied, rather than what was.

I'm not so sure that the question "why?" even need be asked.

It's easy to see this as selective/manipulative "bitching" upon the 
part of Master Brodie in order to create a gender based strawman 
(o so insensitive, politically incorrect, and obviously 
misogynistic, to hear others declare from past warpings of my 
remarks) to lend an appearance to a list manager that his other 
argument(s) have some merit/standing. Most of the people who 
frequent this list, as well as those who manage it, are generally 
capable of seeing through a smokescreen and as a rule have neither 
time nor patience for such ruses.

All this is rather sad on Mr. Brodie's part - a bit too transparent 
and tissue thin.

What's even more disappointing is that there are many on the 
internet who have no other intent and purpose but to disseminate, 
propigate, perpetuate and create mis- and dis-information in the 
effort either to appease their own peculiarly wired mental faculties 
or to pursue their own special interests. And unfortuantely, most 
couldn't give a whit what the destructive ends are from such 
carelessness.

For what it's worth, relative to the "bitch" strawman (or is that 
"straw-woman?"), anyone and everyone on this list can expect to be 
able to bitch all they want with no concern of being perceived as 
one. As a general rule, that title is reserved for those who exhibit 
considerably more attitude than intellect, especially on an 
endlessly repetetive basis. (No doubt there's an appropriately 
gender selective word that can be applied to men as the occassion 
presents itself?)

But please, at least have the decency to leave the double standards 
and short circuits in your arguements behind and stick to at minimum 
logical arguement progressing to factual basis. It makes 
communication so much more accurate, expedient and universal.

Todd Swearingen

Keith,

I am sorry if I am bitching about this, but I have not seen 
anything that indicates that Todd called anyone a bitch. Here in 
Spain they will maybe say "you are a son of a bitch", but at the 
same time clarify "with no offense to your mother". To be or not to 
be a bitch is the question.

Otherwise a bitch is by definition a female dog. I have a bitch in 
my house, with name Foxy and the race is fox terrier. We love this 
bitch very much and she is very kind to us.

Hakan

At 10:43 PM 7/13/2005, you wrote:

Further to which...

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Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre electronicinjectorcontrol)

2005-07-14 Thread PERRY JONES

I get about 44mpg (US) with my 92 Jetta TD, about 47 with my 98 Jetta 
TDI, about the same with my 96 Passat TDI and anywhere from 52 to 61 
with my 03 Jetta TDI.  Manual tranny required for fuel efficiency.  But 
I generally drive for fuel efficiency, within limits (except last summer 
when I average 60 mpg for over 2000 miles driving specifically for fuel 
efficiency); most folks will get somewhat lower mileage.  Plus my miles 
are mostly highway, which makes a difference.  The A4s are more 
efficient than the A3s (and B4s) which in turn are more efficient than 
the A2s.  Some people prefer the mechanical pumps of the A2s but I've 
had no real problems with the newer ones.  The engines are all quite 
similar, just a lot of changes in all the other parts.  The 85 Jetta TD 
that I had a while back used the same oil filter as the 98 TDI and the 
96 TDI, for example.

Perry

Nancy Canning wrote:

I was getting 48mpg on the 71 vw rabbit, main support "T" rusted on it 
and wasn't worth replacing, as a 16 year old had hit the left front 
fender.  My 70 gets 45mpg, I put a little wider tire on it for 
traction in the winter and that reduced milage.

- Original Message -
*From:* Chris 
*To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

*Sent:* Thursday, July 14, 2005 2:17 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre
electronicinjectorcontrol)

What kind of mileage do those old (70s) engines get? I was
thinking about selling my car and getting a new golf TDI, maybe a
'00 or something slightly older. I'm not sure. I wish there were
more options as far as diesels go. I must admit I'm not a big VW
fan. I really wish I could import something from europe. It'd take
more money than i have just to get it to pass EPA emissions
standards though.

Chris N.

- Original Message -
*From:* Nancy Canning 
*To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

*Sent:* Thursday, July 14, 2005 11:06 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre
electronic injectorcontrol)

I have a great oldie but goodie one off a 71 rabbit, been
keeping it for a
spare(currently driving a 70) but it's not out of the car. It
runs great
though, it would be easy to hook a battery up and start it up
for you, so
you could see for yourself.
- Original Message -
From: "David L Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
To: mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 7:24 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre electronic
injector
control)

> how about a 1981 VW already removed from vehicle. I had to
scrap the car.
>
> David
>
>
>
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>

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(50,000
> messages):
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>
>

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[Biofuel] Re: seeds on the brain - small scale diesel

2005-07-14 Thread John Wilson

>Nonsense.What "pays" and what doesn't depends >largely on the
manipulated state of that day's market.
  Hi,
 I haven't checked into the actual price but I was shocked when  told
that you can buy canola oil  in 20 liter pails for $00.40 Cdn/liter. Furnace
oil here is $00.70 cdn a liter. If these prices are correct why would anyone
want to grow their own canola or use fossil fuel to heat their home or run
in their diesel. Buy Food grade canola already purified free from conimants
and go from there.
Yours truly
John Wilson
***
Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve
Goldens
Ph-Fax (902)665-2386)
Web:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm
 Pups:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm
Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm
 http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm

In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM .
After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone.
^
Nova Scotia going smoke-free in public by 2006 (FANTASTIC).


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Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (preelectronic injectorcontrol)

2005-07-14 Thread Chris




>What do you base your criteria on as far as not 
liking the VW?
 
Well, right now I drive a 1994 BMW 530i. I'd argue 
(to the death), that this particular model/year is one of the best looking cars 
ever made. I'd also have to say the interior is designed wonderful, and, most 
importantly, drive-centric. The car handles better than anything I've driven 
before, and it's incredibly quiet and fast. So I'm basically a little spoiled, 
and still trying to shake myself out of American materialism. I've done so much 
work on this car, too, that giving it up is going to be tough. It's almost my 
hobby.
 
Europe gets boat-lots of BMWs with incredible 
diesel engines that still get better gas mileage than most anything here in the 
states. It drives me nuts. And of course they have loads more torque! 

 
Another problem is that I've heard a lot of bad 
things about VW build quality. Particularly the "new" generation of cars 
they've come out with in the past 5 or so years. This is coming from mostly 
mechanics and auto enthusiasts too, and being some of both myself, I take their 
comments seriously. I might say, 'oh well, it's a totally different engine than 
what most people drive, maybe things are different,' but most of the complaints 
I hear are regarding over all build quality, especially the cooling system, 
electrical system, and the over-abundance of cheap plastic engine components. 

 
But nevertheless, I'm pretty set on a TDI Golf, and 
I think it's my only real option anyway, I'm just resisting a little. 

 
I've actually checked out  that site you 
mention, they sound like they certainly have a following :) I'd really just 
like to drive one myself before i commit. 
 
Chris N 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Busyditch 
  
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 5:00 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw 
  engine (preelectronic injectorcontrol)
  
  Chris
  What do you base your criteria on as far as not 
  liking the VW? They have a great ride compared to the Japanese, very stable at 
  cruising speeds (70-80) and you just cant beat 50 MPG, let alone the 40 I get 
  just driving around town. I love my '00 Golf TDi and hope to do a Greasel 
  conversion soon. I wish there were more options, I get jealous when I hear 
  list members talk about their diesel Jeep Cherokees, and sad when I see Chevy 
  sells a diesel Blazer in South America. This country is still in their "stinky 
  no good Diesel" phase but we who see the vast superiority of diesel cars will 
  be ahead of everyone else. I suggest going on Fred's TDi page and see how many 
  folks really enjoy this great little car.
  http://www.tdiclub.com/
   
   
  - Original Message - 
  
From: 
Chris 
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 

Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 3:17 
PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a 
vw engine (pre electronic injectorcontrol)


What kind of mileage do those old (70s) engines 
get? I was thinking about selling my car and getting a new golf TDI, maybe a 
'00 or something slightly older. I'm not sure. I wish there were more 
options as far as diesels go. I must admit I'm not a big VW fan. I really 
wish I could import something from europe. It'd take more money than i 
have just to get it to pass EPA emissions standards though. 
 
Chris N. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Nancy Canning 
  
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 11:06 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a 
  vw engine (pre electronic injectorcontrol)
  I have a great oldie but goodie one off a 71 rabbit, been 
  keeping it for a spare(currently driving a 70) but it's not out of the 
  car. It runs great though, it would be easy to hook a battery up and 
  start it up for you, so you could see for yourself.- Original 
  Message - From: "David L Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: 
  Thursday, July 14, 2005 7:24 AMSubject: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw 
  engine (pre electronic injector control)> how about a 
  1981 VW already removed from vehicle. I had to scrap the 
  car.>> David 
  ___> Biofuel mailing 
  list> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> 
  http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>> 
  Biofuel at Journey to Forever:> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>> 
  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
  > messages):> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>> 
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  at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofue

Re: [Biofuel] the RNC's karl rove talking points

> it's all about 'staying on message', todd.
> the republicans are masters at it.

No, no, no, no, no.

It's called "lying on cue," not "staying on message."

Actually, they don't even seem to need a cue to get fired up.

And let's not forget that adage of "picking one's poison." Just that 
nobody's discerned as of yet how slow and agonizing their death is going 
to be. Although the fact that they'll be willing to drag everyone else 
down with them in their death throes is obvious.

Really makes me wonder why I ever registered as a Republican. 
Twenty-seven years ago "conservative" meant something entirely 
different. Just wish they would have taken their cue from J.C. (either 
Jimmy Carter or Jesus Christ) when they opted for their reformation 
(long before their "Contract on America" (quite the approriate label for 
a "hit" by the way)).

At least I get some pleasure seeing them waste $30-$40 dollars on flyers 
to my mailbox each voting season the past few decades.

Maybe all Dems should re-register as Republicrits to help drain their 
coffers quicker...

Just a thought.

Todd Swearingen

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

it's all about 'staying on message', todd.  the republicans are 
masters at it.

-chris

-Original Message-

From: Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 21:12:46 -0400
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] the RNC's karl rove talking points

Where are the debunkings of each and everyone of these "talking points?' 

And what is it about the facts that the RNC is so scared about that 
they have to coach their minions on what to say, when and to whom? 

The old adage "I think, therefore I don't vote Republican" certainly 
comes to mind at the moment. 

Todd Swearingen 

[EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote: 

> 
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] the RNC's karl rove talking points


Wilson's Iraq Assertions Hold Up Under Fire From Rove Backers.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=a8dab8rni_Do&refer=us

July 14 (Bloomberg) -- Two-year old assertions by former ambassador 
Joseph Wilson regarding Iraq and uranium, which lie at the heart of the 
controversy over who at the White House identified a covert U.S. 
operative, have held up in the face of attacks by supporters of 
presidential adviser Karl Rove.


Rove is a subject of a special prosecutor's investigation into how the 
name of the agent, who is Wilson's wife, was leaked to journalists. 
There has been no evidence made public that Rove identified the agent to 
reporters. Rove's allies are arguing that he was in fact trying to steer 
journalists away from taking too seriously Wilson's criticism of 
President George W. Bush's reasons for going to war in Iraq in 2003.


The agent, Valerie Plame, was publicly identified July 14, 2003, a week 
after Wilson wrote an article for the New York Times about an 
investigative trip he took in 2002 at the behest of the Central 
Intelligence Agency. Wilson wrote that the administration's claim that 
Saddam Hussein's regime tried to buy uranium in Africa for nuclear 
weapons was wrong.


The main points of Wilson's article have largely been substantiated by a 
Senate committee as well as U.S. and United Nations weapons inspectors. 
A day after Wilson's piece was published, the White House acknowledged 
that a claim Bush made in his January 2003 state of the union address 
that Iraq tried to buy ``significant quantities of uranium from Africa'' 
could not be verified and shouldn't have been included in the speech.


While the administration was justified at the time in being concerned 
that Hussein was trying to build nuclear weapons, ``on the specifics of 
this I think Joe Wilson was right,'' said Michael O'Hanlon, a scholar of 
foreign policy studies at the Brookings Institution in Washington.


Criticism of Wilson

Republicans are attempting to defend Rove by discrediting Wilson, saying 
the former ambassador misled the public about why he was sent to Niger 
and what he found there.


Bush supporters such as former House Speaker Newt Gingrich contend that 
Wilson lied in claiming that Vice President Dick Cheney dispatched him 
on the mission to Niger. That echoes a Republican National Committee 
talking-points memo sent to party officials.


Wilson never said that Cheney sent him, only that the vice president's 
office had questions about an intelligence report that referred to the 
sale of uranium yellowcake to Iraq from Niger. Wilson, in his New York 
Times article, said CIA officials were informed of Cheney's questions.


``The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the 
story so they could provide a response to the vice president's office,'' 
Wilson wrote.


Senate Report

The ``Wilson/Rove Research & Talking Points'' memo distributed by RNC 
Director of Television Carolyn Weyforth contends, ``Both the Senate 
Committee on Intelligence and the CIA found assessments Wilson made in 
his report were wrong.''


Yet the Senate panel conclusions didn't discredit Wilson. The committee 
concluded that the Niger intelligence information wasn't solid enough to 
be included in the State of the Union speech. It added that Wilson's 
report didn't change the minds of analysts on either side of the issue, 
while also concluding that an October 2002 National Intelligence 
Estimate ``overstated what the Intelligence Community knew about Iraq's 
possible procurement attempts.''


Vulnerable

Wilson is vulnerable to some criticisms. The Republican talking points 
say Wilson has lied about the role his wife played in his trip. In his 
memoir, ``The Politics of Truth,'' Wilson asserted his wife was not 
involved in the decision to send him to Niger. ``Valerie had nothing to 
do with the matter,'' he wrote. ``She definitely had not proposed that I 
make the trip.''


The Senate Intelligence Committee report states that a CIA official told 
the panel that Plame ``offered up'' Wilson's name for the Niger trip and 
later sent a memo to a CIA official saying her husband had good 
relations with leaders in Niger.


Republicans also dismiss Wilson as a partisan because of his ties to the 
2004 presidential campaign of Democrat John Kerry, the four-term U.S. 
senator from Massachusetts. He advised the Kerry campaign for several 
months on foreign policy and donated money to his race.


The crux of Wilson's argument in his New York Times article was that 
some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program -- a 
central part of the Bush administration's justification for invading 
Iraq -- ``was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat.''


Backing Away

Well before Wilson's article was published -- though after Bush's State 
of the Union address -- administration officials were backing off the 
contention that Iraq sought nuclear material from Africa.


On Feb. 4, 2

Re: [Biofuel] the RNC's karl rove talking points


it's all about 'staying on message', todd.  the republicans are masters at it.
 
-chris -Original Message-From: Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 21:12:46 -0400Subject: Re: [Biofuel] the RNC's karl rove talking points


Where are the debunkings of each and everyone of these "talking points?'  And what is it about the facts that the RNC is so scared about that they have to coach their minions on what to say, when and to whom?  The old adage "I think, therefore I don't vote Republican" certainly comes to mind at the moment.  Todd Swearingen  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  > > >___ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > >  ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org  Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/  
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[Biofuel] It's Cultural Imperialism, Bitch (was: Bitch was: It's. . . .)

yes, mr. brodie was doing what has so often been done in the past.  the brits did a marvelous job of it in india, and cortes in mejico was no slouch either.  but as you all have so rightly pointed out, this group seems too well-knit, sharp-minded and keen-eyed.  discontent and divisiveness would have had to be simmering under the surface for his words to find a target.
 
i must second what has already been iterated and reiterated about the work you do keith.  it's hardly an enviable task, yet you do a tremendous job on all counts.
 
-chris
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Re: [Biofuel] the RNC's karl rove talking points


Where are the debunkings of each and everyone of these "talking points?'

And what is it about the facts that the RNC is so scared about that they 
have to coach their minions on what to say, when and to whom?


The old adage "I think, therefore I don't vote Republican" certainly 
comes to mind at the moment.


Todd Swearingen

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




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Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre electronic injectorcontrol)


a diesel should conservatively get 350k.  it wouldn't surprise me if the japanese ones did a little better.  you should be able to count on 500k or more from a mercedes diesel.
 
-chris -Original Message-From: Thompson, Mark L. (PNB R&D) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:12:45 -0700Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre electronic injectorcontrol)



I was just at "Pick-N-Pull" auto wreckers last weekend and saw at least
4 Diesel Rabbits. (California)
I think they get around $100 for a complete engine, and another $50 for
the trany. 
If you watch they have 50% off days every few months. 
I don't check the mileage, but if they follow my Rabbits life cycle the
car died at around 200K (body, suspension...etc).  
But the engines last for 300K-400K. 
I pulled the engine, from mine, and swapped it in to an old gas powered
water pump. 
Only problem we had was the RPM's of gas pump was higher than the VW
engine likes. 3600RPM's

Just a thought 
Mark 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 5:56 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre electronic
injectorcontrol)


Ebay, or google rebuilt diesel...

David L Wood wrote:

>how about a 1981 VW already removed from vehicle. I had to scrap the 
>car.
>
>David
>
>
>
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>rg
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[Biofuel] the RNC's karl rove talking points



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Re: "Bitch" was Re: [Biofuel] It's imperialism, stupid


Yup,

You're right Kim. It was Jill Mello who applied the "talk show chatter" 
double standard. Sorry. Just don't have 1,000% retention or time to 
reflect completely on the whinings of others when there are hundreds of 
things left undone at every day's end.


As to Call Me Bitch? Worthwhile reading. Authored by?

Todd Swearingen



Garth & Kim Travis wrote:


Greetings,
But I don't think it was Kim who had anything to say, I do believe it 
was Jill, but I could be mistaken.  However, we may have another Kim 
that I am not aware of.


A friend of mine wrote the following poem and I think it might be 
appropriate here.


CALL ME BITCH
by Clara Kern

I heard you call me "Bitch"
Call me "Bitch"

Mother of many names:

 Alani, Samara, Astarte

 Artemis, Diana, Anath

 Gula, Ishtar, and Isis

Just a few names of the
Divine Huntress
The Great Bitch

I share with pride
The title of Ancient priestesses
Called "bawds"
or Sacred Bitches

Bitches
Domesticated dogs
to Guard their hearths


So call me "Bitch"
Spirits en route to Summerland
Still behold the Great Mother
Attended by Her watchful bitches

(And dogs still howl
when Death is near)

Call me "Bitch"

Ancient female artifacts
Blossom with breasts
Neck to thighs, because

Our foremothers knew
Living creatures need more than
Two sources of nourishment, and
Refused to believe the Mother-of-All
Had less

And She was known as The Great Bitch
So, call me "Bitch"


But, whenever you do,
Remember I have other names:
Such as Warrior-Hunter-Healer


Call me "Bitch"

And remember Hecate of the Crossroad.
Whose name, coming from Egypt, means:
Midwife-Goddess, Woman-Wise-in-Words of Power

Hecate whose fury engenders
Panic in stalwart men

We still exist
We bitches

Call me "Bitch"
Or call me "Cat"
But see more than
Hair and claw

When women worshiped Bast (the cat)
Anyone who killed Mau (also the cat)
Was put to death...
And "Pussy" was a title of respect

Or call me "Cow"

Hathar, the cow,
Produced the Milky Way with Her left udder
With Her right She curdled the shape of the Cosmos)

Her horn, each night, replenishes the Earth
So I identify with the Holy Cow,
The Sacred Cow

Or call me "Sow"

Now, why do you suppose
A Goddess would be pictured as an
Enormous Pig, unless some woman
Observed that a sow devours and digests
Garbage as an adjunct to the
Production of healthy, living beings?

You see, there are few names you
Can call me, which will not do me
Honor

You may rant and rave,
Tell me that eternity holds
Fire and brimstone for me

Well, fire destroys,and creates
While Mother Briom is the "Raging One"
So I claim my right to rage

When I go, Hel (Daughter of Mother Earth)
Will welcome me with regenerative fire
(Cinderella, you know, is a prophecy
Of Patriarchy's overthrow)

While anatomy well may be my destiny,
"Hysteria" is Aphrodite's festival,
And means "womb", so call me "hysterical"
"Cunt" means "womb" and the
Procreative power of the womb

The Sanskrit word for temple
Still means "womb";
And the name of the Delphi oracle
Means (you guessed it) womb

So I prophesy a destiny for women
Which both respects the functions of her womb,
And reaches beyond her capacity as a breeder

Women bring forth all kinds of life
Seldom do men comprehend this

We are Lillith (Who
chastised God
When He ignored
The Great Mother
Who created Him)

Say I screech like a crow,
But remember Krobe, the Shape-Shifter,
Who could be either crow or bitch

Call me "Bitch,
Prostitute, harlot", or more
You denigrate yourself
And not the holy fire of women

Daughters of Aphrodite, Sacred Whores,
Were "Virgins" (meaning free of paternal control)
Daughters of Har, Holy Harlots,
Were "virgins" (meaning they belonged to themselves)

We have been Temple Prostitutes, Vestal Virgins,
Free to dispense sensual magick,
Or to deny the healing of our wombs

(By the way, our children were
cherished as "virgin born")

When you call me "Bitch"
I call you unimaginative:

You could have called me "Weird"
Which means knowledgeable of immutable law'
You could have called me a "lady"
Which means a giver of bread'
You could have called me a "hussy"
Which means a woman engaged in "adultery"
(Which means she owns and confers her own
property)

When you say I'm "foolish"
You're saying I have psychic wholeness
When you say I "nag", I'll
Admit the mare in me is untamed

(You could have called me a "lesbian"
Which would credit me with the fearful ability
To be indifferent to a phallus.)

Do you dare to call me "witch"?

A witch is a speaking woman",
A witch is a "defiant woman"
Who knows even the burning times
Could not destroy her work

Call me "witch"
As long as you remember,
Also, to call me
Cat, Cow, Crow, Sow
And to add to these titles
Spinster, Hag, and Crone

I am a Spinster
Weaving worlds from my own substance,

I am a Hag
Penetrating patterns in the tapestry

I am a Crone, a Clan-Mother,
Tying knots of Creation

Labels can't stop me
Call me Witch or Harlot

...or call me "Bitch"!

Bright Blessings,
Kim

Bright Bles

"Bitch" was Re: [Biofuel] It's imperialism, stupid

2005-07-14 Thread Garth & Kim Travis


Greetings,
But I don't think it was Kim who had anything to say, I do believe it was 
Jill, but I could be mistaken.  However, we may have another Kim that I am 
not aware of.


A friend of mine wrote the following poem and I think it might be 
appropriate here.


CALL ME BITCH
by Clara Kern

I heard you call me "Bitch"
Call me "Bitch"

Mother of many names:

 Alani, Samara, Astarte

 Artemis, Diana, Anath

 Gula, Ishtar, and Isis

Just a few names of the
Divine Huntress
The Great Bitch

I share with pride
The title of Ancient priestesses
Called "bawds"
or Sacred Bitches

Bitches
Domesticated dogs
to Guard their hearths


So call me "Bitch"
Spirits en route to Summerland
Still behold the Great Mother
Attended by Her watchful bitches

(And dogs still howl
when Death is near)

Call me "Bitch"

Ancient female artifacts
Blossom with breasts
Neck to thighs, because

Our foremothers knew
Living creatures need more than
Two sources of nourishment, and
Refused to believe the Mother-of-All
Had less

And She was known as The Great Bitch
So, call me "Bitch"


But, whenever you do,
Remember I have other names:
Such as Warrior-Hunter-Healer


Call me "Bitch"

And remember Hecate of the Crossroad.
Whose name, coming from Egypt, means:
Midwife-Goddess, Woman-Wise-in-Words of Power

Hecate whose fury engenders
Panic in stalwart men

We still exist
We bitches

Call me "Bitch"
Or call me "Cat"
But see more than
Hair and claw

When women worshiped Bast (the cat)
Anyone who killed Mau (also the cat)
Was put to death...
And "Pussy" was a title of respect

Or call me "Cow"

Hathar, the cow,
Produced the Milky Way with Her left udder
With Her right She curdled the shape of the Cosmos)

Her horn, each night, replenishes the Earth
So I identify with the Holy Cow,
The Sacred Cow

Or call me "Sow"

Now, why do you suppose
A Goddess would be pictured as an
Enormous Pig, unless some woman
Observed that a sow devours and digests
Garbage as an adjunct to the
Production of healthy, living beings?

You see, there are few names you
Can call me, which will not do me
Honor

You may rant and rave,
Tell me that eternity holds
Fire and brimstone for me

Well, fire destroys,and creates
While Mother Briom is the "Raging One"
So I claim my right to rage

When I go, Hel (Daughter of Mother Earth)
Will welcome me with regenerative fire
(Cinderella, you know, is a prophecy
Of Patriarchy's overthrow)

While anatomy well may be my destiny,
"Hysteria" is Aphrodite's festival,
And means "womb", so call me "hysterical"
"Cunt" means "womb" and the
Procreative power of the womb

The Sanskrit word for temple
Still means "womb";
And the name of the Delphi oracle
Means (you guessed it) womb

So I prophesy a destiny for women
Which both respects the functions of her womb,
And reaches beyond her capacity as a breeder

Women bring forth all kinds of life
Seldom do men comprehend this

We are Lillith (Who
chastised God
When He ignored
The Great Mother
Who created Him)

Say I screech like a crow,
But remember Krobe, the Shape-Shifter,
Who could be either crow or bitch

Call me "Bitch,
Prostitute, harlot", or more
You denigrate yourself
And not the holy fire of women

Daughters of Aphrodite, Sacred Whores,
Were "Virgins" (meaning free of paternal control)
Daughters of Har, Holy Harlots,
Were "virgins" (meaning they belonged to themselves)

We have been Temple Prostitutes, Vestal Virgins,
Free to dispense sensual magick,
Or to deny the healing of our wombs

(By the way, our children were
cherished as "virgin born")

When you call me "Bitch"
I call you unimaginative:

You could have called me "Weird"
Which means knowledgeable of immutable law'
You could have called me a "lady"
Which means a giver of bread'
You could have called me a "hussy"
Which means a woman engaged in "adultery"
(Which means she owns and confers her own
property)

When you say I'm "foolish"
You're saying I have psychic wholeness
When you say I "nag", I'll
Admit the mare in me is untamed

(You could have called me a "lesbian"
Which would credit me with the fearful ability
To be indifferent to a phallus.)

Do you dare to call me "witch"?

A witch is a speaking woman",
A witch is a "defiant woman"
Who knows even the burning times
Could not destroy her work

Call me "witch"
As long as you remember,
Also, to call me
Cat, Cow, Crow, Sow
And to add to these titles
Spinster, Hag, and Crone

I am a Spinster
Weaving worlds from my own substance,

I am a Hag
Penetrating patterns in the tapestry

I am a Crone, a Clan-Mother,
Tying knots of Creation

Labels can't stop me
Call me Witch or Harlot

...or call me "Bitch"!

Bright Blessings,
Kim

Bright Blessings,
Kim

On a much lighter note

At 05:19 PM 7/14/2005, you wrote:
For what it's worth, these are the words that Master Brodie used relative 
to my acknowledging that someone was bitching (complaining) about something.


>> "I notice that he uses words like 'bitch' when in the context
>>of corresponding with a woman, which in other circles would
>> border on

Re: [Biofuel] It's imperialism, stupid

For what it's worth, these are the words that Master Brodie used 
relative to my acknowledging that someone was bitching (complaining) 
about something.

>> "I notice that he uses words like 'bitch' when in the context
>>of corresponding with a woman, which in other circles would
>> border on intimidation."

Let it be know, Mr. Brodie, that I use the word "bitch" universally, not 
gender selective as you imply.

The following are the words actually spoken to Kim, in response to this 
statement from her.

> I joined this list to talk about how to create & run engines on
> biofuel, now I find I'm bombarded with talk show chatter in
> my e-mail box?

>>> You bitch about opposing view point and then go on to read
>>> a full page, chapter and verse, as to the opinions of your favorite,
>>> radical, right-wing, "so-ultra-'conservative'-as-to-have-long-since
>>> -fallen-off-the-edge-of- the-flat-Earth" talk show host yesterday.
>>> What's up with that?

I guess Tim and everyone else missed her remark disparaging the words of 
those other than herself as "talk show chatter" even though she posted a 
full page of "talk show chatter" from Rush Lamebrain (Limbaugh). 
Unfortunately, rather than acknowledge the obvious double standard, Mr. 
Brodie would rather focus on what was never written, much less implied, 
rather than what was.

I'm not so sure that the question "why?" even need be asked.

It's easy to see this as selective/manipulative "bitching" upon the part 
of Master Brodie in order to create a gender based strawman (o so 
insensitive, politically incorrect, and obviously misogynistic, to hear 
others declare from past warpings of my remarks) to lend an appearance 
to a list manager that his other argument(s) have some merit/standing. 
Most of the people who frequent this list, as well as those who manage 
it, are generally capable of seeing through a smokescreen and as a rule 
have neither time nor patience for such ruses.

All this is rather sad on Mr. Brodie's part - a bit too transparent and 
tissue thin.

What's even more disappointing is that there are many on the internet 
who have no other intent and purpose but to disseminate, propigate, 
perpetuate and create mis- and dis-information in the effort either to 
appease their own peculiarly wired mental faculties or to pursue their 
own special interests. And unfortuantely, most couldn't give a whit what 
the destructive ends are from such carelessness.

For what it's worth, relative to the "bitch" strawman (or is that 
"straw-woman?"), anyone and everyone on this list can expect to be able 
to bitch all they want with no concern of being perceived as one. As a 
general rule, that title is reserved for those who exhibit considerably 
more attitude than intellect, especially on an endlessly repetetive 
basis. (No doubt there's an appropriately gender selective word that can 
be applied to men as the occassion presents itself?)

But please, at least have the decency to leave the double standards and 
short circuits in your arguements behind and stick to at minimum logical 
arguement progressing to factual basis. It makes communication so much 
more accurate, expedient and universal.

Todd Swearingen

Keith,

I am sorry if I am bitching about this, but I have not seen anything 
that indicates that Todd called anyone a bitch. Here in Spain they 
will maybe say "you are a son of a bitch", but at the same time 
clarify "with no offense to your mother". To be or not to be a bitch 
is the question.

Otherwise a bitch is by definition a female dog. I have a bitch in my 
house, with name Foxy and the race is fox terrier. We love this bitch 
very much and she is very kind to us.

Hakan

At 10:43 PM 7/13/2005, you wrote:

Further to which...

The Horror In London
When we kill them in droves, some of them will strike back.
By Eric Margolis

We are horrified that anyone would attack innocent civilians packed 
in subway cars. But the extremists and fanatics who do so say they 
are exacting revenge for the 500,000 Iraqi civilians who died, 
(confirmed by the UN), from the ten year US-British embargo of Iraq. 
For the criminal destruction in 1991 of Iraq's water and sewage 
treatment plants that cause massive cholera and typhoid. Or for the 
occupation of Iraq and destruction of the city of Falluja that killed 
tens of thousands more civilians, and, of course, for Palestine.

http://snipurl.com/g7h1

The Logic of Suicide Terrorism
It's the occupation, not the fundamentalism
By Scott McConnell

Scott McConnell caught up with Associate Professor Robert Pape of the 
University of Chicago, whose book on suicide terrorism, Dying to Win, 
is beginning to receive wide notice. Pape has found that the most 
common American perceptions about who the terrorists are and what 
motivates them are off by a wide margin. - A conversation with the 
man who knows more about suicide terrorists than any other American.

http://snipurl.com/g7h2

It's Tim Brodie who's in den

Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre electronic injectorcontrol)

2005-07-14 Thread Busyditch




Chris
What do you base your criteria on as far as not 
liking the VW? They have a great ride compared to the Japanese, very stable at 
cruising speeds (70-80) and you just cant beat 50 MPG, let alone the 40 I get 
just driving around town. I love my '00 Golf TDi and hope to do a Greasel 
conversion soon. I wish there were more options, I get jealous when I hear list 
members talk about their diesel Jeep Cherokees, and sad when I see Chevy sells a 
diesel Blazer in South America. This country is still in their "stinky no good 
Diesel" phase but we who see the vast superiority of diesel cars will be ahead 
of everyone else. I suggest going on Fred's TDi page and see how many folks 
really enjoy this great little car.
http://www.tdiclub.com/
 
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Chris 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 3:17 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw 
  engine (pre electronic injectorcontrol)
  
  
  What kind of mileage do those old (70s) engines 
  get? I was thinking about selling my car and getting a new golf TDI, maybe a 
  '00 or something slightly older. I'm not sure. I wish there were more options 
  as far as diesels go. I must admit I'm not a big VW fan. I really wish I 
  could import something from europe. It'd take more money than i have just to 
  get it to pass EPA emissions standards though. 
   
  Chris N. 
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Nancy Canning 

To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 

Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 11:06 
AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a 
vw engine (pre electronic injectorcontrol)
I have a great oldie but goodie one off a 71 rabbit, been 
keeping it for a spare(currently driving a 70) but it's not out of the 
car. It runs great though, it would be easy to hook a battery up and 
start it up for you, so you could see for yourself.- Original 
Message - From: "David L Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: 
Thursday, July 14, 2005 7:24 AMSubject: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw 
engine (pre electronic injector control)> how about a 
1981 VW already removed from vehicle. I had to scrap the 
car.>> David 
___> Biofuel mailing 
list> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> 
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>> 
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Re: [Biofuel] Hydrometer

2005-07-14 Thread Bruno M.


Hal,

I'm afraid you gonna need an other one.  :-//

Battery acid is a mix of water and Sulferic Acid;
Water has a specific gravity of 1, 00 kg/L ( at 4°C)
Pure Sulferic Acid is about 1.9 kg/L

So, your battery hydrometer shall have readings somewere between 1.0 and 2 
kg/L

and your Biofuel will be below 1 kg/L
thus that hydrometer is not usable for SVO, WVO, Biodiesel, methanol, ethanol.


What you need is a hydrometer for the range of  0.780 - 0.950 Kg/L
if you only want to measure diesel and biodiesel and SVO.

( Methanol is about  0;791 Kg/L , Ethanol  0.790 Kg/L)

greets
Bruno M.

~~
At 16:34 14/07/2005, Hal wrote:


I've made a couple of batches of biodiesel and want to test
its specific gravity.  I've found a hydrometer that test a
battery to see if it is holding a charge at TSC here in
Bloomington, IL.

Can I use this hydrometer to test the biodiesel or do I need
one specificially for biodiesel?

-hal

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Re: [Biofuel] It's imperialism, stupid

2005-07-14 Thread Hakan Falk



Keith,

I am sorry if I am bitching about this, but I have not seen anything that 
indicates that Todd called anyone a bitch. Here in Spain they will maybe 
say "you are a son of a bitch", but at the same time clarify "with no 
offense to your mother". To be or not to be a bitch is the question.


Otherwise a bitch is by definition a female dog. I have a bitch in my 
house, with name Foxy and the race is fox terrier. We love this bitch very 
much and she is very kind to us.


Hakan

At 10:43 PM 7/13/2005, you wrote:

Further to which...

The Horror In London
When we kill them in droves, some of them will strike back.
By Eric Margolis

We are horrified that anyone would attack innocent civilians packed in 
subway cars. But the extremists and fanatics who do so say they are 
exacting revenge for the 500,000 Iraqi civilians who died, (confirmed by 
the UN), from the ten year US-British embargo of Iraq. For the criminal 
destruction in 1991 of Iraq's water and sewage treatment plants that cause 
massive cholera and typhoid. Or for the occupation of Iraq and destruction 
of the city of Falluja that killed tens of thousands more civilians, and, 
of course, for Palestine.

http://snipurl.com/g7h1

The Logic of Suicide Terrorism
It's the occupation, not the fundamentalism
By Scott McConnell

Scott McConnell caught up with Associate Professor Robert Pape of the 
University of Chicago, whose book on suicide terrorism, Dying to Win, is 
beginning to receive wide notice. Pape has found that the most common 
American perceptions about who the terrorists are and what motivates them 
are off by a wide margin. - A conversation with the man who knows more 
about suicide terrorists than any other American.

http://snipurl.com/g7h2

It's Tim Brodie who's in denial about all this.

Tim can't see straight or think straight, there's something wrong with his 
mind. Todd uses the term "limbaughtomized", something similar maybe. Tim 
has led the list in this kind of crazed circular argument before, dancing 
round and round a crashingly obvious fact, anything rather than expose his 
cherished notions to the inimical forces of truth and reality. It has no 
integrity at all.


Tim quotes words like "unimpeachable", or "tolerance" or "love" in 
connection with terrorist acts that were never said here, he quotes 
arguments about Chomsky that just didn't happen that way. It's in the 
archives after all, but that doesn't stop Tim, he puts words into your 
mouth, and the whole list's, for very dubious reasons.


For a typical example, Todd said this to Jill:

You bitch about opposing view point and then go on to read a full page, 
chapter and verse, as to the opinions of your favorite, radical, 
right-wing, 
"so-ultra-'conservative'-as-to-have-long-since-fallen-off-the-edge-of- 
the-flat-Earth" talk show host yesterday. What's up with that?


Tim quoted that directly to me and then said: "I notice that he uses words 
like 'bitch' when in the context of corresponding with a woman, which in 
other circles would border on intimidation."


That doesn't make sense, "to bitch" means to complain, that's all, but "a 
bitch" is a whore or worse. In his next message Tim changed it to this: 
"What about Todd implying that Kim is a "bitch". So much for "universal 
rules of social discourse".  He wouldn't have phrased it that way to her 
face (in a job situation, he'd be written up for intimidation)."


Try convincing Tim that Todd didn't call Kim a bitch, see how far you get. 
He KNOWS Todd called her a bitch. He KNOWS the bleeding-heart liberals on 
this list want appeasement, he has no difficulty contorting a discussion 
of real causes into an accusation of appeasement, as he did with Todd, as 
I said he'd do. You won't persuade Tim that we're not offering 
justifications for terrorism to support appeasement any more than you'll 
convince him Todd didn't call Kim a bitch.


Anyway, he posted a message saying I'm a liar. Before letting it through I 
asked him for a modicum of proof for this assertion, to which he responded 
that all journalists are liars, everyone knows that, just switch on the TV 
or open a magazine for proof of his point. No mention of what he'd said 
I'd lied about. So I'm a liar, Todd called Kim a bitch, and it's the 
terrorists' inferior cultural value systems that make them do it, it has 
nothing to do with US foreign policy or the hubris of empire. And we're 
all weak-minded fools.


Enough! It's hopeless trying to conduct a sane discussion on this basis, 
and on a mailing list it's a distraction and a distortion, it contributes 
nothing. We all have better things to do than waste our time on fruitless 
circular arguments with Tim Brodie. So much for the "universal rules of 
social discourse" indeed. Which happens to be a list rule, not often so 
abused. He was warned several times, to no avail. Goodbye Tim Brodie.


Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/
Biofuel list o

Re: [Biofuel] It's imperialism, stupid


Thanks for the encouragement, Mike.


Kieth,

Earlier, you mentioned how companies like Monsanto try to infiltrate 
groups like ours. In addition I'm sure that there are many 
emotionally driven and misguided individuals like Tim who are acting 
on their own.


Yes, an endless trickle, Chinese water torture, LOL!

Sorry, I know it's not funny, I am sympathetic. "Everybody, soon or 
late, sits down to a banquet of consequences," said Robert Louis 
Stevenson, and I don't envy some of these people the feast that 
awaits them. But it's not a workable sympathy, too much abuse, and 
not only of the list. It's the garbageman people take to abusing when 
the garbage happens to be them, and that's me, LOL! But if you don't 
like bouncers then shape up and learn how to behave. Quite often it 
works out that way too, I'm happy to say. Otherwise it's just a job, 
it's not a matter of personalities, which I've said before, and it's 
true, but these people will never believe that. What they want to 
believe is their problem.


When I told Tim I wouldn't let him lead the list in another crazed 
circular argument like he'd done before, he answered: "Oh, so is this 
about list leadership?" Huh? Another guy who got abusive in this 
thread told me I'm a control freak.


On the contrary, when we moved the list from Yahoo last year it was 
less control I was after. Much of our thinking was in helping the 
list to be a self-moderating community, which it kept trying to be 
but it kept getting shot down because one or two simply had the wrong 
attitude - regardless of their views, they didn't think of 
communities, they thought of themselves. I posted a few messages 
about this at the time. "The second Welcome message sent onlist is 
from the administrators - rules, of a sort. The gist of it is that 
the list is an online community, for sharing and mutual benefit, not 
a shop where you can be demanding and the customer's always right. 
Once you realize that it's all fairly obvious. If you come to a 
mailing list via Yahoo though you might be more inclined to see it as 
a shop - the wrong expectations, and another reason for leaving 
there."


It worked well, it's much more a self-moderating community now.

In the past, I've mentioned (rhetorically) that we have strength in 
solidarity. The fact that we can debate about the details but stay 
unanimous about almost everything else


There are so many different kinds of people here, from different 
backgrounds, different places, different cultures. It's great! 
Solidarity in diversity.


shows extraordinary strength and fidelity for this type of forum and 
I think we stand a better chance than most in defending ourselves 
and this group from such kinds of sabotage.


I'm glad other list members think that too, so do I, but on the other 
hand I don't want to be overconfident. The fakes at Bivings did a lot 
of harm, they're not dumb.


The Margolis article below is a great example of how this list is an 
extremely important conduit for getting the truth out to potentially 
millions of people. Many in this group have contributed in big ways 
and others are inspired to do the same.


You have earned many titles Kieth.


Yes! Though you wouldn't want to hang all of them on your wall.

One which I feel you've earned many times over is that of activist. 
Through this group and your work with JTF, you have directly 
effected the lives of thousands of people (myself included).


...for what it's worth.


It's worth a lot to me Mike, many thanks.

Regards

Keith




Mike

Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Further to which...

The Horror In London
When we kill them in droves, some of them will strike back.
By Eric Margolis

We are horrified that anyone would attack innocent civilians packed
in subway cars. But the extremists and fanatics who do so say they
are exacting revenge for the 500,000 Iraqi civilians who died,
(confirmed by the UN), from the ten year US-British embargo of Iraq.
For the criminal destruction in 1991 of Iraq's water and sewage
treatment plants that cause massive cholera and typhoid. Or for the
occupation of Iraq and destruction of the city of Falluja that killed
tens of thousands more civilians, and, of course, for Palestine.
http://snipurl.com/g7h1

The Logic of Suicide Terrorism
It's the occupation, not the fundamentalism
By Scott McConnell

Scott McConnell caught up with Associate Profes! sor Robert Pape of the
University of Chicago, whose book on suicide terrorism, Dying to Win,
is beginning to receive wide notice. Pape has found that the most
common American perceptions about who the terrorists are and what
motivates them are off by a wide margin. - A conversation with the
man who knows more about suicide terrorists than any other American.
http://snipurl.com/g7h2

It's Tim Brodie who's in denial about all this.

Tim can't see straight or think straight, there's something wrong
with his mind. Todd uses the term "limbaughtomized", something
similar maybe. T

Re: Fwd: [Biofuel] seeds on the brain - small scale diesel

Hello Bob

RE:   "Harvest equipment = a scythe."

I grew up near Pennsylvania Dutch country, and I'll always remember 
driving through the areas farmed by the Amish, which as many of you 
may already know, eschew engine driven equipment.  Unless they hire 
someone to do fieldwork, they do the work generally by hand or with 
horse drawn plows, wagons, etc.  The food for the horses is 
generally grown on the farm and of course the manure goes back on 
the fields.  The richness of their farms and fields was greater than 
I recall seeing anywhere else.  Amazingly, their culture and farming 
practices continue to this day in parts of Pennsylvania, Ohio, 
Maryland, Wisconsin, and elsewhere in the states.

I believe some list members have experience of this. Actually it's 
just traditional sustainable farming. They call modern industrialised 
farming "conventional", but in the long history of agriculture it's 
not conventional, it's just a passing phase. It's what the Amish do 
that's truly conventional, them and many others.

[According to my father, use of horse power was commonly used in 
many Pennsylvania -- and I suspect in other states as well 
-- farming communities up until perhaps WWII.]

I'm curious what list members might think of the ethics/morality of 
using animal power, where practical, to grow and harvest crops.

As Todd says, the ethics and morality depend on the human component, 
but use of animal traction can be and should be as well within 
ethical bounds as any other farming work with animals can and should 
be and often is. So let's talk about practicality rather.

(I realize that in less industrialized parts of the world, that's 
not even a question.)

Replacing human muscle with animal traction is quite often the question.

In industrialised countries it's being found that sustainable 
forestry might require teams of big horses, as of yore. Real forestry 
doesn't seem to have survived on any scale much longer than real 
horse-power did. The local economies, woodlands skills and 
forest-product markets didn't survive either, but it could all be 
revived, to everybody's benefit, IMHO. I think it will have to be, 
like the farming. Not just "going back", in both cases it needs a 
wise combination of old and new so that we can go forward. These are 
the real modern farms and forests.

It seems far more sustainable, if done humanely and otherwise 
ethically acceptable, to use horses, etc., to augment human muscle 
power and to replace fossil fuel driven equipment.  I should also 
note that I'm well aware of the appeal of fossil fuel driven 
equipment for "efficiency" and to ease the backbreaking labor of 
more "traditional" agriculture.

I'm not so sure that it has to be backbreaking. The horse-drawn farm 
implements developed in Europe and the US in the late 18th century up 
to about WWII were excellent. I'm glad you put "efficiency" in 
quotes. Is it more efficient to use less labour and more machines, 
more fossil fuels, more fertilizer and more pesticides or to run a 
low-input high-output mixed farm which uses animal traction wherever 
possible, with the animals fed off the farm not out of an oildrum, 
and feeding them helps refertilize the fields for the next crops, if 
you manage it right. See Ley farming:

http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#ley
Small Farms Library

The best manure for the land is the owner's footprint
--Aristotle, Economics

Tractor manure makes a poor fertilizer, so use the tractor only when 
you really need it.

We should regard grassland pasture as a sustainable green 
carbon-neutral biofuel. It should be replacing fossil-fuel use in 
agriculture, which is a major greenhouse-gas producer and 
global-warming culprit and it needn't be.

Best wishes

Keith

Bob

on 7/13/05 4:20 PM, John Wilson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hi Mike,
> Extracting the oil from seed requires a process that is quite
> expensive. Harvest equipment you could probably contract  out
> but unless you are somewhere  where you can sell the cake or
> have livestock to feed the cake to an on site extractor I don't
> think would pay.

Nonsense.What "pays" and what doesn't depends largely on the
manipulated state of that day's market. Pressing oil from seed is
a very ancient and well-documented process. If you're planning to
turn it into biodiesel, the usual requirement of refining is to
some extent abbreviated. I encourage you to pursue this option.
Find an oilseed crop that is easy to grow, harvest, and process
by hand (sesame, peanuts, safflower, NOT soy or corn). Feed the
cake to your animals, sell it to your neighbor, or compost it.

Good luck.  -K

... says Ken, who uses an ApproTec Hela Mk II manual oilpress from 
Tanzania, IIRC. Or you can make one with a bottle-jack, or use 
designs for an 80kg/hour press, or get a TinyTech set-up, or 
whatever. Small is not a problem. See Oilseed presses:

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#Oilpress
Bi

Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre electronicinjectorcontrol)

2005-07-14 Thread Nancy Canning




I was getting 48mpg on the 71 vw rabbit, main support "T" 
rusted on it and wasn't worth replacing, as a 16 year old had hit the left front 
fender.  My 70 gets 45mpg, I put a little wider tire on it for traction in 
the winter and that reduced milage.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Chris 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 2:17 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw 
  engine (pre electronicinjectorcontrol)
  
  
  What kind of mileage do those old (70s) engines 
  get? I was thinking about selling my car and getting a new golf TDI, maybe a 
  '00 or something slightly older. I'm not sure. I wish there were more options 
  as far as diesels go. I must admit I'm not a big VW fan. I really wish I 
  could import something from europe. It'd take more money than i have just to 
  get it to pass EPA emissions standards though. 
   
  Chris N. 
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Nancy Canning 

To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 

Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 11:06 
AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a 
vw engine (pre electronic injectorcontrol)
I have a great oldie but goodie one off a 71 rabbit, been 
keeping it for a spare(currently driving a 70) but it's not out of the 
car. It runs great though, it would be easy to hook a battery up and 
start it up for you, so you could see for yourself.- Original 
Message - From: "David L Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: 
Thursday, July 14, 2005 7:24 AMSubject: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw 
engine (pre electronic injector control)> how about a 
1981 VW already removed from vehicle. I had to scrap the 
car.>> David 
___> Biofuel mailing 
list> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> 
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>> 
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>> 
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > 
messages):> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>> 
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RE: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre electronic injectorcontrol)

2005-07-14 Thread

I was just at "Pick-N-Pull" auto wreckers last weekend and saw at least
4 Diesel Rabbits. (California)
I think they get around $100 for a complete engine, and another $50 for
the trany. 
If you watch they have 50% off days every few months. 
I don't check the mileage, but if they follow my Rabbits life cycle the
car died at around 200K (body, suspension...etc).  
But the engines last for 300K-400K. 
I pulled the engine, from mine, and swapped it in to an old gas powered
water pump. 
Only problem we had was the RPM's of gas pump was higher than the VW
engine likes. 3600RPM's

Just a thought 
Mark 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 5:56 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre electronic
injectorcontrol)

Ebay, or google rebuilt diesel...

David L Wood wrote:

>how about a 1981 VW already removed from vehicle. I had to scrap the 
>car.
>
>David
>
>
>
>___
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>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.o
>rg
>
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>
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>messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>  
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre electronic injectorcontrol)


> What kind of mileage do those old (70s) engines get?

Depending upon the condition, 40-50 mpg. A rebuild or seldom used engine 
would be at the top end. Anything under 40 mpg should have the top end 
looked at to see where the compression is being lost.


Todd Swearingen

Chris wrote:

What kind of mileage do those old (70s) engines get? I was thinking 
about selling my car and getting a new golf TDI, maybe a '00 or 
something slightly older. I'm not sure. I wish there were more options 
as far as diesels go. I must admit I'm not a big VW fan. I really 
wish I could import something from europe. It'd take more money than i 
have just to get it to pass EPA emissions standards though.
 
Chris N.


- Original Message -
*From:* Nancy Canning 
*To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

*Sent:* Thursday, July 14, 2005 11:06 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre electronic
injectorcontrol)

I have a great oldie but goodie one off a 71 rabbit, been keeping
it for a
spare(currently driving a 70) but it's not out of the car. It runs
great
though, it would be easy to hook a battery up and start it up for
you, so
you could see for yourself.
- Original Message -
From: "David L Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
To: mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 7:24 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre electronic injector
control)


> how about a 1981 VW already removed from vehicle. I had to scrap
the car.
>
> David
>
>
>
> ___
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> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre electronic injectorcontrol)

2005-07-14 Thread Chris





What kind of mileage do those old (70s) engines 
get? I was thinking about selling my car and getting a new golf TDI, maybe a '00 
or something slightly older. I'm not sure. I wish there were more options as far 
as diesels go. I must admit I'm not a big VW fan. I really wish I could 
import something from europe. It'd take more money than i have just to get it to 
pass EPA emissions standards though. 
 
Chris N. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Nancy Canning 
  
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 11:06 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw 
  engine (pre electronic injectorcontrol)
  I have a great oldie but goodie one off a 71 rabbit, been 
  keeping it for a spare(currently driving a 70) but it's not out of the 
  car. It runs great though, it would be easy to hook a battery up and start 
  it up for you, so you could see for yourself.- Original Message 
  - From: "David L Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: 
  Thursday, July 14, 2005 7:24 AMSubject: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine 
  (pre electronic injector control)> how about a 1981 VW 
  already removed from vehicle. I had to scrap the car.>> 
  David 
  ___> Biofuel mailing 
  list> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> 
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  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > 
  messages):> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>> 
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[Biofuel] Recipes for Treason

Saving Karl Rove

Paul Waldman

July 14, 2005

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20050714/saving_karl_rove.php

/Paul Waldman is a senior fellow with / /Media Matters for America/
<http://mediamatters.org/> /and a senior contributor to/ The Gadflyer
<http://gadflyer.com/>.

*Every administration has its share of scandals* to deal with, and every
one handles them in a slightly different way (of course, it helps if
your party controls both houses of Congress, so there will be no pesky
Congressional investigations to deal with). But the Bush
administration’s furious effort to save Karl Rove and justify the outing
of a covert CIA operative is a remarkable case study in misdirection, a
campaign whose scaffolding of spin is plain for all to see.

Listen to the party hacks and conservative pundits and you can hear an
endlessly repeated version of the talking points issued by the
Republican National Committee. ( You can see them here
<http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Exclusive_GOP_talking_points_on_Rove_seek_to_discre_0712.html>,
courtesy of Raw Story).

When we unpack its elements we can see not only the state of the art in
political damage control but the tools that allow the Republicans to
come out on top again and again when controversy rears its ugly head.

*Step 1: It’s not really about us, it’s about them.*

This is one of the fundamental divides between the two parties today,
something Republicans understand and Democrats don’t: If the controversy
is about you, you lose; if it’s about your opponent, you win. So when
Democrats responded to Karl Rove’s slander about their response to 9/11
by saying that they supported the war in Afghanistan, they were making
the mistake of arguing about whether they were or weren’t a bunch of
wimps. Every time one of these controversies erupts, the Republicans
always make it about Democrats: Who they are, what they’ve said and what
they’ve done.

So now when Republicans talk about Rove, we hear the phrases “angry
left” and “smear campaign” repeated over and over, as they argue that
this is all a tempest in a teapot being drummed up by those mean
liberals. Apparently, Democrats are angry that national security would
be compromised to punish a Bush administration opponent—go figure.

But the real target of the spin effort is Joe Wilson. As the Republicans
understand, if they can get everyone to talk about whether Wilson should
have been sent to Niger, whether he should have contributed to the Kerry
campaign, or whether a Republican Senate report did or did not
contradict him, pretty soon no one will be talking about Karl Rove
anymore. Which brings us to…

*Step 2: Lie through your teeth.*

Republicans have argued that Valerie Plame was not a covert agent (she
was), and some have even suggested that Iraq really might have been
seeking uranium from Niger, something even the Bush administration has
admitted is false. But much of their arguments centers on the utterly
phony claim that Karl Rove was trying to stop Matthew Cooper from
writing about Wilson because Wilson had claimed that Vice President
Cheney sent him to Niger. Wilson never said any such thing; he said that
the vice president’s office asked the CIA to investigate the uranium
claim, and the CIA asked him to take part in that investigation. Spinner
after Republican spinner has lied about this, trying to paint Rove’s
outing of Plame as “discouraging a reporter from writing a false story
based on a false premise,” as RNC chairman Ken Mehlman put it.

*Step 3: Argue the semantics, or, it depends on what the meaning of
“identify” is.*

More than once, Karl Rove has denied being the leaker. But when we look
at his past comments, we see an attention to semantic detail that is
reminiscent of no one so much as our last president. “I didn’t know her
name and didn’t leak her name,” he said. In other words, I did not have
naming relations with that woman.

Others are echoing this line. “There’s no evidence at all that he ever
used her name,” said Newt Gingrich. And even some reporters seem to be
accepting this as a reasonable defense. David Sanger of /The New York
Times/ reported that the fact that Rove revealed Plame’s identity but
not her name “could save his job” if President Bush decides it allows
him to worm out of his pledge to fire the leaker.

In fact, the statute in question makes it illegal not to reveal an
agent’s name, but “any information identifying such covert agent.” But
whether Rove can be convicted in a court of law is a relatively minor
point; he revealed the identity of a covert CIA operative for the
purpose of a political vendetta. He may be able to avoid jail time if he
didn’t know she was undercover, but his actions were no less deplorable
or harmful to American national security.

A year ago, President Bush was asked whether he would fire anyone who
leaked Plame’s name; Bush responded, “Yes”; Scott

[Biofuel] MG diesel conversion Was:Re: [Biofuel] seeds on the brain - small scale diesel production and motorcycles

2005-07-14 Thread John Estill

--- bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Michael Redler wrote:
> > Bob,
> > I don't disagree that there is an abundance of
> waste vegetable oil out there. 

General question ->Is it really waste when the used
oil is puchased (in larger metro areas) and then sold
to be used in pet/animal food?

> I am currently looking for a running or at least
> rebuildable vw diesel 
> engine.   I can get a mg midget early 70's with a
> blown engine but good 
> body and running gear.  Anybody have a vw engine
> (pre  electronic  injector control) ?

Specific Questions/Comment -> I have a running Midget
and would be very curious about dropping a VW diesel
into it. Most specifically, what would you do about
the transmission? I would think that one would want to
change the four-speed to a five-speed. What would it
be?

Also, the local (Detroit) VW new/used parts wholesaler
has some info claiming that a customer has converted a
TDI diesel to run "non-electronic." (page M-19 of
their 2005 catalog)

http://www.partsplaceinc.com/

Anyway, I would be very interested your progress.

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 

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Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre electronic injector control)

2005-07-14 Thread Nancy Canning

I have a great oldie but goodie one off a 71 rabbit, been keeping it for a 
spare(currently driving a 70) but it's not out of the car. It runs great 
though, it would be easy to hook a battery up and start it up for you, so 
you could see for yourself.
- Original Message - 
From: "David L Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 7:24 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre electronic injector 
control)




how about a 1981 VW already removed from vehicle. I had to scrap the car.

David



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[Biofuel] Hydrometer

2005-07-14 Thread Hal Burch

I've made a couple of batches of biodiesel and want to test 
its specific gravity.  I've found a hydrometer that test a 
battery to see if it is holding a charge at TSC here in 
Bloomington, IL.  

Can I use this hydrometer to test the biodiesel or do I need 
one specificially for biodiesel?

-hal 

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Re: [Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre electronic injector control)

2005-07-14 Thread Mike Weaver


Ebay, or google rebuilt diesel...

David L Wood wrote:


how about a 1981 VW already removed from vehicle. I had to scrap the car.

David



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[Biofuel] Cross Posted: Engine Compression Ratio Discussion.....Diesel Conversions

2005-07-14 Thread Michael Redler




I was half joking when I posted this. I'm wondering if there is any interest in discussing this here.
 
Maybe it's already been done. Stranger things have happened.
 
MikeMichael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 14:52:07 -0700 (PDT)From: Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: Re: [WoodGas] Re: Engine Compression Ratio Discussion.Diesel ConversionsTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Whoa!
 
Hey, maybe I'm crazy...uh, yea probably. Anyway, what if you injected water vapor like Max said, then use the turbo charger to generate electricity and feed a battery. 
 
A woodgas, turbo assisted electric hybrid.
 
:-)
 
Mike[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I do not like water injection into intake manifolds as I feel that thermal shock damage is all too easy in this type of arrangement. However there is another, proven method of power boosting engines with water. A mist injected into the exhaust manifold creates a vigorous steam which can be fed into a turbo charger for extra boost. The navy has used this techniue on PT boat engines. In their case they buy expensive stainless exhausts and pump salt water right into the exhausts. maxgasman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello list!> > Now we have a bunch of motormen presenting their> Dieselmotor compression ratios. The value of these> compression ratios would be still more valuable if> they were related to the combustion chamber>
 SYSTEM!> > High compression ratios and prechambers are not> a good starting point for woodgas use.> Direct injected dieselmotors with a modest compression> ratio are useful as projects in the mid RPM range.  > This as dual fuel application.> > If the motor is modified to an Otto system, then> the top can be reworked to suit woodgas work anyway.> > Max> > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "maxgasman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > > > Familiar tunes on GAS-L .> > > > > > Woodgas knocking> > > > If a direct injection Diesel with moderate RPM and> > a compression ratio around 16:1 starts to knock on> > woodgas, and any temporary tar development can be> > confirmed as unlikely reason, one has to consider> > a slight reduction in the compression rate. > > It cannot
 be drastically reduced, as the coldstarting> > properties will then be lost.> > > > But first the regular injection timing must be confirmed.> > If reducing the compression ratio to the point, where> > coldstarting still is satisfactory, and the knocking> > still is present, someone can be tempted to start> > laborating with the injection timing. > > This must be restrained from, while this will very> > likely upset the optimum performace at peak power RPM,> > and other properties.> > Every construction has its own set of properties, so> > no overwelming rules are established. > > > > If however, no compromise with the compression ratio> > bares fruit, there is an "ansient" methode to come to> > grips with persistant knocking. That's water!> > > > The methode is over 100 years old. Nebulizing water
 in> > the intake manifold, at the mixer end.> > For Otto motors a supply of about 10 - 25% added to the > > fuel consumption makes wonders. The same goes for Diesels. > > Developing soot and coke in the combustion chamber will > > be "steamwashed", leaving clean surfaces, thus avoiding> > preingnition by glowing particles. Compression heat> > will be reduced by "boiling" the wet fog. This puts a > > restraint on preignition by heat.> > Here is no contradiction; the dieselfog is lit at a far> > lower temperature than the woodgas.   > > > > Max> > > > > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "LarenCorie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote:> > > There was recently a mention of engine compression> > > ratios, and desiel/WoodGas conversion.  Here is> > > some
 commentary  from Tom Reed, and others.:> > > > > > __> > > > > > " Very high compression diesel engines are regularly used by> > > aspirating producer gas into the intake air and keeping a pilot> > > ignition of ~20% diesel.  These engines can run on producer> > > gas or straight diesel.  They can also be run on 5% pilot diesel> > > if smaller injectors are substituted,  according to the > > manufacturers,> > > but then you can't return to full diesel operation.> > > > > > They can also be converted to spark and skip the diesel by> > > attaching electronic ignition to the end of the injector pump.> > > > > > Prof. Parikh at the Indian Institute of Technology in Bombay> > > says she believes that there is an optimum CR
 around 12/1> > > because gains from higher compression above this are > > > offset by friction losses.> > > > > > Yours truly,    TOM REED> > > > > > > > > > > > Higher compression ratios = higher efficiency> > > > > > It appears that CR should be pushed as high as possible the> > > limiting factor is knock or detonation.> > > > > > Mukunda has documented 17:1 without detonation in a duel fuel> > > diesel.  Best efficiency and emiss

Re: Fwd: [Biofuel] seeds on the brain - small scale diesel

> I'm curious what list members might think of the ethics/morality
> of using animal power, where practical, to grow and harvest crops.

Ancient proverb:

"If you don't work, you don't eat."

Carry that proverb one step further:

"If you don't work, you get eaten."

Livestock play as essential a role in a farm as does the human 
component. It's a working relationship. What one might care to partly 
realize is that in the wild an animal's life is in many respects on a 
downhill slide from birth. Animals can die rather abysmal deaths from 
worms, injury, disease and starvation. It could be said that their 
quality of life in some applications can be heightened in comparison to 
the natural kingdom.

That's not to say that all aspects of  human livestock endeavors are 
humane in comparison to nature. Quite the opposite. But there is a truth 
that many livestock and livestock types fair better on a working farm 
than in the wild.

It rather all depends on the ethics, principles and morals of the human 
component.

Todd Swearingen

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

RE:   "Harvest equipment = a scythe."

I grew up near Pennsylvania Dutch country, and I'll always remember 
driving through the areas farmed by the Amish, which as many of you 
may already know, eschew engine driven equipment.  Unless they hire 
someone to do fieldwork, they do the work generally by hand or with 
horse drawn plows, wagons, etc.  The food for the horses is generally 
grown on the farm and of course the manure goes back on the 
fields.  The richness of their farms and fields was greater than I 
recall seeing anywhere else.  Amazingly, their culture and farming 
practices continue to this day in parts of Pennsylvania, Ohio, 
Maryland, Wisconsin, and elsewhere in the states.

[According to my father, use of horse power was commonly used in many 
Pennsylvania -- and I suspect in other states as well -- farming 
communities up until perhaps WWII.]

I'm curious what list members might think of the ethics/morality of 
using animal power, where practical, to grow and harvest crops.  (I 
realize that in less industrialized parts of the world, that's not 
even a question.)  It seems far more sustainable, if done humanely and 
otherwise ethically acceptable, to use horses, etc., to augment human 
muscle power and to replace fossil fuel driven equipment.  I should 
also note that I'm well aware of the appeal of fossil fuel driven 
equipment for "efficiency" and to ease the backbreaking labor of more 
"traditional" agriculture.  

Bob

Subject:
Re: [Biofuel] seeds on the brain - small scale diesel
From:
Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:
Thu, 14 Jul 2005 20:13:48 +0900
To:
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

To:
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

on 7/13/05 4:20 PM, John Wilson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hi Mike,
> Extracting the oil from seed requires a process that is quite
> expensive. Harvest equipment you could probably contract  out
> but unless you are somewhere  where you can sell the cake or
> have livestock to feed the cake to an on site extractor I don't
> think would pay.

Nonsense.What "pays" and what doesn't depends largely on the
manipulated state of that day's market. Pressing oil from seed is
a very ancient and well-documented process. If you're planning to
turn it into biodiesel, the usual requirement of refining is to
some extent abbreviated. I encourage you to pursue this option.
Find an oilseed crop that is easy to grow, harvest, and process
by hand (sesame, peanuts, safflower, NOT soy or corn). Feed the
cake to your animals, sell it to your neighbor, or compost it.

Good luck.  -K

... says Ken, who uses an ApproTec Hela Mk II manual oilpress from 
Tanzania, IIRC. Or you can make one with a bottle-jack, or use designs 
for an 80kg/hour press, or get a TinyTech set-up, or whatever. Small 
is not a problem. See Oilseed presses:

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#Oilpress
Biofuels supplies and suppliers

Harvest equipment = a scythe.

Best wishes

Keith

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Re: Fwd: [Biofuel] seeds on the brain - small scale diesel

2005-07-14 Thread Garth & Kim Travis



Greetings,
While I do not use animal power on my farm, I do use my scythe almost
daily.  I cut grass for my rabbits.  I hope in the future to be
harvesting grains with it.  The best part of the scythe is the peace
and quiet.  I do use my tractor when I need to, but then I have to
wear ear protectors which are not very comfortable.
Bright Blessings,
Kim
At 10:06 AM 7/14/2005, you wrote:

RE:   "Harvest equipment = a scythe."
 
I grew up near Pennsylvania Dutch country, and I'll always remember
driving through the areas farmed by the Amish, which as many of you may
already know, eschew engine driven equipment.  Unless they hire
someone to do fieldwork, they do the work generally by hand or with horse
drawn plows, wagons, etc.  The food for the horses is generally
grown on the farm and of course the manure goes back on the fields. 
The richness of their farms and fields was greater than I recall seeing
anywhere else.  Amazingly, their culture and farming practices
continue to this day in parts of Pennsylvania, Ohio, Maryland, Wisconsin,
and elsewhere in the states.
 
[According to my father, use of horse power was commonly used in many
Pennsylvania -- and I suspect in other states as well -- farming
communities up until perhaps WWII.]
 
I'm curious what list members might think of the ethics/morality of using
animal power, where practical, to grow and harvest crops.  (I
realize that in less industrialized parts of the world, that's not even a
question.)  It seems far more sustainable, if done humanely and
otherwise ethically acceptable, to use horses, etc., to augment human
muscle power and to replace fossil fuel driven equipment.  I should
also note that I'm well aware of the appeal of fossil fuel driven
equipment for "efficiency" and to ease the backbreaking labor
of more "traditional" agriculture.   
   

   
Bob
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Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 20:13:48 +0900
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] seeds on the brain - small scale diesel
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on 7/13/05 4:20 PM, John Wilson
at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hi Mike,
> Extracting the oil from seed requires a process that is quite
> expensive. Harvest equipment you could probably contract 
out
> but unless you are somewhere  where you can sell the cake
or
> have livestock to feed the cake to an on site extractor I don't
> think would pay.

Nonsense.    What "pays" and what doesn't
depends largely on the
manipulated state of that day's market. Pressing oil from seed is
a very ancient and well-documented process. If you're planning to
turn it into b

Fwd: [Biofuel] seeds on the brain - small scale diesel

2005-07-14 Thread RobertCVA

RE:   "Harvest equipment = a scythe."

I grew up near Pennsylvania Dutch country, and I'll always remember driving 
through the areas farmed by the Amish, which as many of you may already know, 
eschew engine driven equipment.  Unless they hire someone to do fieldwork, 
they do the work generally by hand or with horse drawn plows, wagons, etc.  
The food for the horses is generally grown on the farm and of course the manure 
goes back on the fields.  The richness of their farms and fields was 
greater than I recall seeing anywhere else.  Amazingly, their culture and 
farming practices continue to this day in parts of Pennsylvania, Ohio, Maryland, 
Wisconsin, and elsewhere in the states.

[According to my father, use of horse power was commonly used in many 
Pennsylvania -- and I suspect in other states as well -- farming 
communities up until perhaps WWII.]

I'm curious what list members might think of the ethics/morality of using 
animal power, where practical, to grow and harvest crops.  (I realize that 
in less industrialized parts of the world, that's not even a 
question.)  It seems far more sustainable, if done humanely and otherwise 
ethically acceptable, to use horses, etc., to augment human muscle power and to 
replace fossil fuel driven equipment.  I should also note that I'm well 
aware of the appeal of fossil fuel driven equipment for "efficiency" and to ease 
the backbreaking labor of more "traditional" agriculture.   

Bob
--- Begin Message ---

on 7/13/05 4:20 PM, John Wilson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hi Mike,
> Extracting the oil from seed requires a process that is quite
> expensive. Harvest equipment you could probably contract  out
> but unless you are somewhere  where you can sell the cake or
> have livestock to feed the cake to an on site extractor I don't
> think would pay.

Nonsense.What "pays" and what doesn't depends largely on the
manipulated state of that day's market. Pressing oil from seed is
a very ancient and well-documented process. If you're planning to
turn it into biodiesel, the usual requirement of refining is to
some extent abbreviated. I encourage you to pursue this option.
Find an oilseed crop that is easy to grow, harvest, and process
by hand (sesame, peanuts, safflower, NOT soy or corn). Feed the
cake to your animals, sell it to your neighbor, or compost it.

Good luck.  -K

... says Ken, who uses an ApproTec Hela Mk II manual oilpress from 
Tanzania, IIRC. Or you can make one with a bottle-jack, or use 
designs for an 80kg/hour press, or get a TinyTech set-up, or 
whatever. Small is not a problem. See Oilseed presses:

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#Oilpress
Biofuels supplies and suppliers

Harvest equipment = a scythe.

Best wishes

Keith

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--- End Message ---
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Re: [Biofuel] Limiting coffee breaks. was: Deconstructing theNuclear Power Myths

if what you're referring to is debunking the allegation that iraq had sought 
to purchase said material from niger, that would have been her husband, 
ambassador wilson.  :)

btw, i looked at those links you provided re veggie nutrition.  i don't see 
any contradiction with what was being posted here.  the basic idea seemed to be 
that it is untrue that balanced essential amino acid content need be consumed 
*in*the*same*meal* (or general time bracket of the day i.e. morning, midday, 
evening).  i don't think anyone was asserting this.

-chris b.

In a message dated 7/13/05 8:21:52 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Valerie Plame did it, in Niger, with Yellowcake.


Enuff already... >>


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RE: [Biofuel] Colostrum

2005-07-14 Thread Jules Veres

We all take Colostrum supplement in our family to strengthen our immune 
system. It is in a spray format, it works wonders, especially i  the cold 
season. It is bovine too.

Jules

From: "Ryan Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: 
Subject: [Biofuel] Colostrum
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 00:12:20 -0600

Sorry, I meant to post a link.
http://www.newlifefoods.net/

This is Bovine colostrum.  It is dried and put into pill form.

Ryan
- Original Message - From: "r" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pimentel is at it again

Some time ago, I contacted the Human Milk Banking Association of North 
America (www.hmbana.org) without getting a response about getting milk for 
consumption. The web site mentions that human milk is to be used for 
therapeutic and nutritional purposes for babies ( no mention of adults) 
although adults, especially elderly ones, need calcium in a highly 
digestible form (like in human milk) to prevent/cure 
osteopenia/osteoporosis.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

My mother and grandfather swear by this stuff.  I have no affiliation 
with this site, it was on google.  I haven't taken any of this colostrum, 
but my grandfather and his girlfriend say it saved their lives.  I am not 
sure of the valitidy of this, as we see in America, advertising can 
create a wonderdrug...barefoot coral calcium for example.  all over the 
tv, it was the hottest fad in living forever, now it is top shelf in the 
back.

This just came to mind when you mentioned the diseases.

Ryan
- Original Message - From: "r" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pimentel is at it again

If we assume that the human body knows what it needs, then if human milk 
is the most appropriate to feed humans, how come we are drinking cow 
milk instead of human milk?   How about industrialized human milk 
production? That should help to cure/prevent a fair amount of diseases 
prevalent in our societies?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Ken Dunn - CountyEarth.com wrote:

Why do you object to milk production? Or is it, again, that you're 
objecting to industrialised milk production?

I wouldn't say that I object to milk production at all, I am 
questioning the sustainability of the practice and also the 
nutritional value to humans.  And yes, I do most definitely object to 
industrialized milk production.  Really,  I'm just trying to 
understand.  Hopefully, it might help someone else also.

I should add that as mammals ourselves there is nothing that bovine 
milk provides to us that we cannot get directly from other foods or 
manufacture ourselves.

Take care,
Ken

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[Biofuel] Anybody have a vw engine (pre electronic injector control)

2005-07-14 Thread David L Wood

how about a 1981 VW already removed from vehicle. I had to scrap the car.

David



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Re: [Biofuel] seeds on the brain - small scale diesel


Hello Mike, John


John,

There is an article from Homepower magazine that gives detailed 
information on biodiesel production which includes oil extraction. I 
don't have enough experience to determine it's validity. But it 
seems to indicate that there is "table top" equipment available for 
extracting the oil.


I found a copy of it at:

http: 
//www.distributiondrive.com/Homepowerbiodieselarticle.pdf


Beware of what Joshua says, it's very outdated. Check it out first at 
JtF or in the list archives, or ask the list.


It gives some suggestions as to what can be done with the meal or 
cake as you call it. However, I didn't find any information on 
harvesting.


Something that I've been considering is the production of small 
amounts of either biodiesel or ethanol as an engine starter fuel for 
a vehicle set up to run on wood gas.


We're also considering that.

That way, the bulk of the fuel would be more available with less 
processing. The bad part is that I think wood gas produces more 
greenhouse gasses than biodiesel or ethanol.


More emissions maybe, but I think not greenhouse gases, wood is carbon-neutral.

I need to do more research to be sure. It would be helpful if 
someone can direct me to a good URL for that info.


Have you looked at this? I want to give it all a thorough re-read:

http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html#woodgas
Wood gas

Best

Keith


Mike  


John Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi Mike,
Extracting the oil from seed requires a process that is quite
expensive. Harvest equipment you could probably contract out but unless you
are somewhere where you can sell the cake or have livestock to feed the
cake to an
on site extractor I don't think would pay. Trucking the beans or seed to an
extractor and bringing back the oil would also be quite costly. One heck of
a lot better to pick up a source of used WVO.

Yours truly
John Wilson
***
Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve
Goldens
Ph-Fax (902)665-2386)
Web: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm
Pups: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm
Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm

In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until! 9:00 PM .
After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone.
^
Nova Scotia going smoke-free in public by 2006 (FANTASTIC)



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Re: [Biofuel] seeds on the brain - small scale diesel