Re: [Biofuel] acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs
Ken, Acid catalysis works well. Industry often uses feedstock of 100% FFAs in order to achieve a pure or nearly pure mono-ester product. The easiest way to test the theory on a pauper's budget is to take the glyc cocktail from two side-by-side trials from identical feedstock and reaction conditions, one a/b and one strictly base, and recover the FFAs. To reduce sample error, larger batches would help, at least a galon or thereabouts. Todd Swearingen A question about recovered FFAs from separating the glyc cocktail. I want to do some tests using a/b with high-FFA oil, and I don't have a lot of high-FFA oil. I'm looking for a cut-off point where I'll have to change the method, and ideally I'd like a range of oils with increasing FFA content (up to about 25%), but I'm not going to get that. What I'd really like to do is add FFA by increments to the same low-FFA WVO. Could I use FFA separated from the glyc cocktail for that? Does all the phosphoric acid and all the KOH end up in the bottom layer after separation or will there still be some left in the FFA to confuse the issue? If it's still there in the FFA, could it be neutralised? Any ideas? Thanks much Best Keith Ken Provost wrote: On Dec 30, 2005, at 11:34 AM, bob allen wrote: acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs The following is my modification of that procedure which works for us, and takes less time, but requires more catalyst. Dissolve 1 ml sulfuric acid in 150 ml methanol and add to 1 liter liter dry wvo, heat to about 60 Celsius for one hour. Then dissolve 4.9gm NaOH in 50 ml methanol and add to the reaction mixture. Continue heating for an additional hour, stir for one more hour and then let set for 8 or more hours. Workup as usual. Sounds right -- now as to the basic theory: Have you been able to verify that the acid catalysis stage actually accomplishes anything? In other words, starting from some high FFA feedstock, do two experiments: 1) Single stage with excess alkali as required to neut- ralize the FFAs. This would be expected to produce much soap and reduced biodiesel yield. 2) Your method as described above, which should theoretically reduce the soap formation dramatically with proportionally higher biodiesel yield. I did my best to verify this a few years back, and found the acid actually didn't help much. Just curious -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Modification of cars to use biodiesel and insurance
hello from leicestershire! I have just discussed the fact i am going to run my car on bio diesel with my insurance company. I have used Norwich union, and the pay as you drive option (i am in the merchant navy and dont use my car for 4 month periods and i am still a young driver) I wish ships used biodiesel, they use residual or heavy fuel oil - solid at room temperature. Nasty stuff, which gets treated through heating and settling, heating and purification - centrifuging out water and solids, and filtering at various stages before being burnt in the engine. Already and ideal set-up for using biodiesel. Would make work feel more healthy with reduced nasty fumes and probably much safer. Anyway back to insurance. I was told if i were to have any mod done to my fuel system such as a heated fuel filter it would have to be installed by a qualified and certified bio diesel installer !? None in Leicestershire, in fact i dont know of anyone in the midlands. I feel well qualified as a marine engineer. Has anyone else had insurance probs with modifications? cheers, and happy new year for tmw. TIM HADLAND ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Seeds
has anyone on this forum considered the long term implications of importing/planting foreign plants? in many countries this practise is illegal, and restricted for many more. This is for very good reason, initally the import of a new plant or tree may seem to solve a problem, but when it starts to grow wild and replace the indigenous species, it could have catastrophic consequences for the ecology of the region. Regards Bob - Original Message - From: lres1 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:51 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Seeds Prakash Chhagani, Can you please send details of what you can supply in the range of Jatropha of the non-toxic variety. Would like cost of DHL from you to me here of 5,000 seed lots. Thank you for your help. Doug Handisides- Original Message - From: prakash chhangani To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Jatropha Curcas Where ***No virus was detected in the attachment no filenameNo virus was detected in the attachment no filenameNo virus was detected in the attachment no filenameYour mail has been scanned by InterScan.***-*** Dear sir, If you are interested from supplies from India we can help you. Please advise. Yours truly, Prakash Chhagani Sorry to trouble all but am unable to find a site where I can buy seeds for Jatropha Curcus, the non-toxic varietyfrom Mexico. That is I would like to be able to locate 100 kilograms of such seeds at minimum for propagation into a hedge type stabilizing system for steep hillsides that have been stripped bare and thus need to be rehabilitated. Thank you for what help any one may give. Doug ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Doug Handisides[EMAIL PROTECTED] Only the intended recipient may access or use thiss communication. Any distribution, use, dissemination, reproduction, copying of this e-mail without prior written consent is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me immediately by return e-mail and then delete this e-mail. Thank you for your co-operation. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs
The FFA recovery equation requires excess acid to achieve the glycerol separation. The overwhelming majority of the excess should reside in the recovered glycerol/methanol layer. On the other hand, there's apt to be a microscopic, perhaps negligible amount of phosphoric acid in the recovered FFAs. A simple wash would put the kabosh on that. Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Ken, Acid catalysis works well. Industry often uses feedstock of 100% FFAs in order to achieve a pure or nearly pure mono-ester product. The easiest way to test the theory on a pauper's budget is to take the glyc cocktail from two side-by-side trials from identical feedstock and reaction conditions, one a/b and one strictly base, and recover the FFAs. To reduce sample error, larger batches would help, at least a galon or thereabouts. Todd Swearingen A question about recovered FFAs from separating the glyc cocktail. I want to do some tests using a/b with high-FFA oil, and I don't have a lot of high-FFA oil. I'm looking for a cut-off point where I'll have to change the method, and ideally I'd like a range of oils with increasing FFA content (up to about 25%), but I'm not going to get that. What I'd really like to do is add FFA by increments to the same low-FFA WVO. Could I use FFA separated from the glyc cocktail for that? Does all the phosphoric acid and all the KOH end up in the bottom layer after separation or will there still be some left in the FFA to confuse the issue? If it's still there in the FFA, could it be neutralised? Any ideas? Thanks much Best Keith Ken Provost wrote: On Dec 30, 2005, at 11:34 AM, bob allen wrote: acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs The following is my modification of that procedure which works for us, and takes less time, but requires more catalyst. Dissolve 1 ml sulfuric acid in 150 ml methanol and add to 1 liter liter dry wvo, heat to about 60 Celsius for one hour. Then dissolve 4.9gm NaOH in 50 ml methanol and add to the reaction mixture. Continue heating for an additional hour, stir for one more hour and then let set for 8 or more hours. Workup as usual. Sounds right -- now as to the basic theory: Have you been able to verify that the acid catalysis stage actually accomplishes anything? In other words, starting from some high FFA feedstock, do two experiments: 1) Single stage with excess alkali as required to neut- ralize the FFAs. This would be expected to produce much soap and reduced biodiesel yield. 2) Your method as described above, which should theoretically reduce the soap formation dramatically with proportionally higher biodiesel yield. I did my best to verify this a few years back, and found the acid actually didn't help much. Just curious -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Seeds
I say, the French introduced the Jatropha here for oil lamps and as hedges around gardens etc to keep goats and the likes out of the cabbage patches. So far the Jatropha, after all but 100 + years is still not taken over where it isn't wanted as such. If it had I would not be looking for seeds or the plants or saplings. If it had taken like Gorse in NZ then this would sure be a problem to reckon with, alas at this stage Jatropha is still hard to come by here in quantity with the Thai buying at 3,000 KIP per kilo (about US$0.30). Not so sure on the large scale plantations of Eucalyptus that has been planted over the last few years here as all ground cover has gone from beneath where as before there was tropical forests. Ah well. Summary, after more than 100 years of Jatropha growing and is still hard tobuy seeds and plants here, none exist in the wild, it is a reasonable risk to grow it. Doug - Original Message - From: Robert Carr To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Seeds ***No virus was detected in the attachment no filenameNo virus was detected in the attachment no filenameNo virus was detected in the attachment no filenameYour mail has been scanned by InterScan.***-*** has anyone on this forum considered the long term implications of importing/planting foreign plants? in many countries this practise is illegal, and restricted for many more. This is for very good reason, initally the import of a new plant or tree may seem to solve a problem, but when it starts to grow wild and replace the indigenous species, it could have catastrophic consequences for the ecology of the region. Regards Bob - Original Message - From: lres1 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:51 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Seeds Prakash Chhagani, Can you please send details of what you can supply in the range of Jatropha of the non-toxic variety. Would like cost of DHL from you to me here of 5,000 seed lots. Thank you for your help. Doug Handisides- Original Message - From: prakash chhangani To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Jatropha Curcas Where ***No virus was detected in the attachment no filenameNo virus was detected in the attachment no filenameNo virus was detected in the attachment no filenameYour mail has been scanned by InterScan.***-*** Dear sir, If you are interested from supplies from India we can help you. Please advise. Yours truly, Prakash Chhagani Sorry to trouble all but am unable to find a site where I can buy seeds for Jatropha Curcus, the non-toxic varietyfrom Mexico. That is I would like to be able to locate 100 kilograms of such seeds at minimum for propagation into a hedge type stabilizing system for steep hillsides that have been stripped bare and thus need to be rehabilitated. Thank you for what help any one may give. Doug ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Doug Handisides[EMAIL PROTECTED] Only the intended recipient may access or use thiss communication. Any distribution, use, dissemination, reproduction, copying of this e-mail without prior written consent is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me immediately by return e-mail and then delete this e-mail. Thank you for your co-operation. ___Biofuel mailing
Re: [Biofuel] acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs
On Dec 31, 2005, at 1:38 AM, Keith Addison wrote: What I'd really like to do is add FFA by increments to the same low-FFA WVO. Could I use FFA separated from the glyc cocktail for that? Does all the phosphoric acid and all the KOH end up in the bottom layer after separation or will there still be some left in the FFA to confuse the issue? If it's still there in the FFA, could it be neutralised? Any ideas? That's very much what I did for my experiments -- I was isolating pure FFA, then adding it back in controlled amounts (along with using it in soap recipes and as an herbicide :-)). Like Todd said, a simple hot water wash on the extracted crude FFA leaves a very clean layer -- dark reddish-brown, odd-smelling -- which of course floats on the wash water. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Modification of cars to use biodiesel and insurance
Well, over here in the US (at least in Colorado) insurance doesn't even ask if the vehical runs or is roadworthy. To get it licensed, you have to have the emissions tested in metropolitan areas, but in most of the western states, not brakes or headlights, etc.. Some places do inspect those. I did run into problems when trying to insure a bus that I chopped the top off of and welded a higher roof onto to turn it into a house, but it was only due to them calling it a bus, and me calling it an RV. Are they worried that somehow running biodiesel could increase the risk of an accident? Or are they worried about it damaging the vehical? But back to the heated filter. I know very few people using biodiesel who have actually done anything to their vehicals (other than changing old rubber fuel lines).I've run B-100 down to about 20F, and B20 down to as cold as my truck will start: 5F or so. If you want to run B100 through the winter a heated filter would be nice. But in my experience most people just switch to a blend of biodiesel and #2 diesel when it gets cold instead. I am putting heated filters on my vehicals, because I want to run SVO. If I was going to stick with biodiesel, I don't know if I would bother or not. Zeke On 12/31/05, Tim Hadland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello from leicestershire! I have just discussed the fact i am going to run my car on bio diesel with my insurance company. I have used Norwich union, and the pay as you drive option (i am in the merchant navy and dont use my car for 4 month periods and i am still a young driver) I wish ships used biodiesel, they use residual or heavy fuel oil - solid at room temperature. Nasty stuff, which gets treated through heating and settling, heating and purification - centrifuging out water and solids, and filtering at various stages before being burnt in the engine. Already and ideal set-up for using biodiesel. Would make work feel more healthy with reduced nasty fumes and probably much safer. Anyway back to insurance. I was told if i were to have any mod done to my fuel system such as a heated fuel filter it would have to be installed by a qualified and certified bio diesel installer !? None in Leicestershire, in fact i dont know of anyone in the midlands. I feel well qualified as a marine engineer. Has anyone else had insurance probs with modifications? cheers, and happy new year for tmw. TIM HADLAND ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] HAPPY 2006 AND FRUITFUL NEW YEAR
Dear Biofuel list´s members, my research team members, and my beloved Biofuel list leader KEith It is my deepest will and pleasure that everyone of you enjoy a happy and fruitful new year 2006, seeing biomass based rural eco friendly technology taking off to playing relevant role in today and tomorrow´senergy shares bringing light and prosperity to the the darken area of the rural world.Let us all join for hand to make the colaborative work for the same. Kindest regards.Pannirselvam-- Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQGrupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular8488145083 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Seeds - importing foreign plants
good point bob. the world has lots of foreign plant problems already... australia has lantana, prickly pear, camphor lauryl and dozens of others. florida has an invasion of aussie tea trees i think.so its something that should always be considered and if its something that has not been introduced before, one should go thru proper channels and not make matters worse... although as a friend liked to point out here: we have scrambled the egg - it will never go back to the way it was. t Carr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: has anyone on this forum considered the long term implications of importing/planting foreign plants? in many countries this practise is illegal, and restricted for many more. This is for very good reason, initally the import of a new plant or tree may seem to solve a problem, but when it starts to grow wild and replace the indigenous species, it could have catastrophic consequences for the ecology of the region. Regards Bob- Original Message - From: lres1 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:51 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Seeds Prakash Chhagani, Can you please send details of what you can supply in the range of Jatropha of the non-toxic variety. Would like cost of DHL from you to me here of 5,000 seed lots.Thank you for your help. Doug Handisides- Original Message - From: prakash chhangani To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Jatropha Curcas Where ***No virus was detected in the attachment no filenameNo virus was detected in the attachment no filenameNo virus was detected in the attachment no filenameYour mail has been scanned by InterScan.***-*** Dear sir, If you are interested from supplies from India we can help you. Please advise. Yours truly, Prakash ChhaganiSorry to trouble all but am unable to find a site where I can buy seeds for Jatropha Curcus, the non-toxic varietyfrom Mexico. That is I would like to be able to locate 100 kilograms of such seeds at minimum for propagation into a hedge type stabilizing system for steep hillsides that have been stripped bare and thus need to be rehabilitated.Thank you for what help any one may give. Doug ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Doug Handisides[EMAIL PROTECTED]Only the intended recipient may access or use thiss communication. Any distribution, use, dissemination, reproduction, copying of this e-mail without prior written consent is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me immediately by return e-mail and then delete this e-mail. Thank you for your co-operation.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
