Re: [Biofuel] was...ANYONE know anything about this?
I used to put mothballs in the gas tank of my '69 Chevy Nova and it easily doubled the mileage and power. Then I put a magnet on the fuel line and tripled the power. Unfortunately with all this power I kept having to buy new rear tires., so I sold it. Now I use DSE and it works great. You guys are just wasting time with biodiesel and titrating and wash tests. -Mike ROY Washbish wrote: Tallex Thanks for your comments Roy */AltEnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Hi, It sounds similar to other cylinder treatments such as Duralube, STP, etc. I used to use Duralube in an '93 gmc Vandura 3/4 ton I had and it made the engine run quieter and increased mileage a little by coating the cylinder walls with a silicone based liquid to reduce friction. Duralube costs about 20 bucks and I am pretty sure that this stuff is almost the same ingredients. I really don't think that you are going to find much difference. It sounds like they are trying to cash in on permenently high gas prices. I woudn't buy it. regards tallex __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Prions and junk science
Nonsense. You're not trying hard enough: Alice laughed: There's no use trying, she said; one can't believe impossible things. I daresay you haven't had much practice, said the Queen. When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. /Alice in Wonderland. -Weaver / bob allen wrote: Howdy Kirk, I must strongly disagree with just about everything in this article. Kirk McLoren wrote: http://nov55.com/prin.html *Prions and Junk Science* *Prion proteins lack genetic material for creating their own evolution. right out of the gun this is silly. Most if not all genetic diseases are expressed via ineffective or missing proteins. Sickle cell anemia and Tay-Sachs disease to name just two. In fact I challenge anyone to name any inherited disease which doesn't involve protein. When the genetic material is in the host, it's a genetic disease; but prion diseases are obviously not genetic diseases.* *Ever hear of new variant CJD? There cannot be such a thing as a new variant for a genetic disease. sure there can, all it takes in the a mutation of the DNA which codes for the protein involved in the disease Evolution cannot work against the source of the DNA.* huh? *On This Page:* * *Prions* http://nov55.com/prin.html#pri * *Junk Science* http://nov55.com/prin.html#Jun *Point 1. *There is zero probability that two mutations will support each other in creating genetic diseases. again this just isn't so. there are numerous examples of diseases which require more than one gene. So there could not be any more than one mutation in the whole field of Scrapies-like diseases—across species and all. actually there are several isoforms for the prion. *Point 2. *Nature has had 600 million years to iron out the flaws in brain membrane proteins. It is not still killing people over it. way not true, or don't you believe in any number of other inheritable diseases such as early onset Alzheimer's, et al. *Point 3. *A protein that causes a similar protein to change does not cause the cells to produce more such proteins and destroy themselves doing so. the author of this report simply does not understand how prion diseases work. The prion simply acts as a template to cause the misfolding of existing protein, which destroys the native protein function *Point 4. *Proteins are not indestructible; they are among the most fragile biological molecules. Genetic material is much closer to indestructible, because it needs to maintain information without error. *Point 5. *There is no method of dissemination for a prion disease except eating brains, all it takes is exposure to the prion, yes, eating brains puts one at the highest risk, but it is not the only mechanism for exposure. snip (Americans do not pronounce i as e, except to glorify junk science.) now there is a forceful argument. :- one of my favorites is the things that swim in the sea- ghoti that's gh as pronounced in enough-- F o as in women-- I ti as in action-- sh ghoti Prions are proteins which supposedly cause Mad Cow Disease and variants such as Scrapies. The claim that a protein can do the same thing as infectious agents is in conflict with all scientific principles involved. no it's not, the mechanism is clear and reproducible. the native conformation of the protein is in a thermodynamically less stable shape than the prion form. All it takes is a catalyst to cause an exergonic reaction from native conformation to prion conformation etc, etc, etc. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Ethics of Eating Meat: A Radical View
We can't even keep our own currency up these days...the USD has steadily gone down. We're living on borrowed time (and money). What I can't understand is why a lot of the Commonwealth countries follow along by electing the pols the do - Oz, Canada and I don't know as much about the Kiwis - but when I meet Aussies and Kiwis and (Brits for that matter) here and abroad they seem so much more sensible than their leaders. There was a time when the US, (now sadly long past), DID provide good ideas and had many institutions worth emulating. Now I don't see why ANY developed country would march in our shadow. Weaver Doug Foskey wrote: I think the influence is more evil than ANZAS. I think the US has a stranglehold over our pollies. There was a rumour that the last time Australia stood up to the US, our $A nosedived. The rumour was that unless we behaved, it would keep going down. Look too at the rollercoaster ride of the $NZ. It has taken NZ years to recover. regards Doug On Thursday 15 June 2006 7:51, leo bunyan wrote: Hi Doug It's not a matter of if the EPA laws will be introduced in Oz but When. I saw a journalist on the telly the other night that said what happens in the US follows on to Aust. We now have fire ants in Oz that came from 2nd hand Agriculture equipment imported from the States because when we complained that the quarantine standards from the States might be a bit slack the States accussed us of being difficult to get a long with now we didn't want to offend our ANZAS treaty partner so we just deciced best we let them in. The same is going to happen with GM Pity Leo Doug Foskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have a local shrub also (little man trying to be like ( liked) by George...) There is some GM in Aust, but it seems not to have a toe-hold. I was wondering, with our govt signing the US FTA (Free (as in not...) Trade Agreement) if the EPA laws that have been watered in the US will be introduced to Australia?? regards Doug On Wednesday 14 June 2006 11:20, Chris Lloyd wrote: But for the contamination: they are fed on genetically modified protein: would you trust it??) No, I do my best never to eat any GM products but it's not easy with the US pushing GM products and out stupid PM acting as Bushes puppet. Luckily there is a large proportion of the population that is anti GM and most supermarkets don't want to loose trade. One brewer even started using GM Soya in its beer, funnily enough consumption crashed. Chris. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Late Night
// President Bush made a surprise visit to Iraq today. It lasted five hours. Five hours? That's longer than he stayed at any National Guard meetings. --Jay Leno The White House planned the whole trip in total secrecy. The prime minister of Iraq was not told. The press was not told. Even President Bush was not told. In fact when he got off the plane in Baghdad he said, 'Boy, Arizona is hot.' --Jay Leno Security very, very tight. They even had Dick Cheney riding shotgun. --Jay Leno President Bush went to Iraq to boost the new government. That shows you how rough the situation is in Iraq when a guy with 30% approval rating stops by to give you a boost. --Jay Leno On Monday Robert Byrd became the longest serving senator in U.S. history. He's been a senator for 48 years. Minority Leader Harry Reid called him 'a giant' and Anna Nicole Smith called him 'the bachelor.' --Jay Leno Ann Coulter is going to be on the show tomorrow night. Security is very tight. In fact, there is even restricted airspace over the studio. Her people are afraid that Dorothy's house could drop on her. --Jay Leno This is weird. The state of Texas has put webcams on the Mexican border so people can sit at their home computers and look for illegal aliens trying to cross into the U.S. The website is free, but it costs $5 if you want the illegal aliens to talk dirty to you. --Conan O'Brien ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] was...ANYONE know anything about this?
What makes you think I have a job ;-) mark manchester wrote: Darling, for gawdsake, quit your dayjob, please. Jesse From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 20:22:27 -0400 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] was...ANYONE know anything about this? I used to put mothballs in the gas tank of my '69 Chevy Nova and it easily doubled the mileage and power. Then I put a magnet on the fuel line and tripled the power. Unfortunately with all this power I kept having to buy new rear tires., so I sold it. Now I use DSE and it works great. You guys are just wasting time with biodiesel and titrating and wash tests. -Mike ROY Washbish wrote: Tallex Thanks for your comments Roy */AltEnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Hi, It sounds similar to other cylinder treatments such as Duralube, STP, etc. I used to use Duralube in an '93 gmc Vandura 3/4 ton I had and it made the engine run quieter and increased mileage a little by coating the cylinder walls with a silicone based liquid to reduce friction. Duralube costs about 20 bucks and I am pretty sure that this stuff is almost the same ingredients. I really don't think that you are going to find much difference. It sounds like they are trying to cash in on permenently high gas prices. I woudn't buy it. regards tallex __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Prions and junk science
Obviously you're not a republican. -Sid *Wayne* Mike Redler wrote: Back off Weaver! Some things really are impossible. I did some research and according to Wayne Manzanero, you're WAY off! It's impossible to tell the sun to leave the sky It's impossible to ask a baby not to cry Can the ocean keep from rushing to the shore? ...it's just impossible! -Redler Mike Weaver wrote: Nonsense. You're not trying hard enough: Alice laughed: There's no use trying, she said; one can't believe impossible things. I daresay you haven't had much practice, said the Queen. When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. /Alice in Wonderland. -Weaver [impossible snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] 90 litre reactor details published.
You could post a copy of the plans on Ebay but offer it for a penny. That would put a stop to the ripoffs. Joe Street wrote: Hello everyone; I have finally published the details and construction manual for the 90 litre version of my system which I have upscaled from the 30 litre prototype. All info is copylefted of course but I hope people will check it out and give me some feedback. If anyone on this list ever notices my work being sold anywhere (like ebay) please let me know so I can take action. Here is the link: http://www.nonprofitfuel.ca/90%20Liter%20Reactor%20build%20manual.pdf This is the system we are going to use in our local cooperative. I am teaching a course this weekend based on this system. 15 students are registered. I hope it goes well. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] 90 litre reactor details published.
No, but I think you can make a buy it now price of a penny. Joe Street wrote: I don't know anything about ebay or how it works. Could I auction it to the lowest bidder? ;) Joe Mike Weaver wrote: You could post a copy of the plans on Ebay but offer it for a penny. That would put a stop to the ripoffs. Joe Street wrote: Hello everyone; I have finally published the details and construction manual for the 90 litre version of my system which I have upscaled from the 30 litre prototype. All info is copylefted of course but I hope people will check it out and give me some feedback. If anyone on this list ever notices my work being sold anywhere (like ebay) please let me know so I can take action. Here is the link: http://www.nonprofitfuel.ca/90%20Liter%20Reactor%20build%20manual.pdf This is the system we are going to use in our local cooperative. I am teaching a course this weekend based on this system. 15 students are registered. I hope it goes well. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] 90 litre reactor details published.
In all seriousness, I wonder if we could just offer a cheap CD or PDF of open source plans on Ebay for 2.00 or 3.00 dollars. I personally buy free software on CD for 5-7 dollars just because it's easy and saves me money and time. I don't begrudge someone charging a nominal fee to download, burn a CD, and package it it with documentation. I am willing to pay for the convenience. What is wrong is passing of JtF stuff as your own, and charging a fortune for it. The key is that you can't charge for the info, just the CD and printing. Have a look at http://www.cheapbytes.com/ I made my own BD notebook of info from all over the 'net - some JtF, some other places. Whatever made sense. I wouldn't sell it, though. people can copy it for free. -Weaver raymond greeley wrote: Hello, i believe you can offer multiple instructions at a determined price on ebay, i have seen things this way. where is your teachingfacility. i would be interested assuming i would need to travel. I will review the online plans before i write back. I am in chicago and did have several travel plans scheduled this summer and might be able to include a stop to visiit your work. I have people here that woudl be interested in doing a cooperative reactor in chicago. are you doing any diesel auto adaption for wvo. thanks, ray From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] 90 litre reactor details published. Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:30:14 -0400 I don't know anything about ebay or how it works. Could I auction it to the lowest bidder? ;) Joe Mike Weaver wrote: You could post a copy of the plans on Ebay but offer it for a penny. That would put a stop to the ripoffs. Joe Street wrote: Hello everyone; I have finally published the details and construction manual for the 90 litre version of my system which I have upscaled from the 30 litre prototype. All info is copylefted of course but I hope people will check it out and give me some feedback. If anyone on this list ever notices my work being sold anywhere (like ebay) please let me know so I can take action. Here is the link: http://www.nonprofitfuel.ca/90%20Liter%20Reactor%20build%20manual.pdf This is the system we are going to use in our local cooperative. I am teaching a course this weekend based on this system. 15 students are registered. I hope it goes well. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] castorbeans
It is used in the states as decorative plant Juan Boveda wrote: Hello Mike Redler. That crop is like a big bush, in this subtropical country it grows like a weed (no insecticides needed) but it needs a fertile dirt, water and a half-squared meter for its deep roots. I does not climbs, more likely it can be used for the urban farmer as a shadow for parking lots if they are planted in groups. It was discussed the production of biodiesel from castor and Keith sent to the list the following message that has many links. Best Regards. Juan Boveda Paraguay -original- From: Keith Addison [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 3/30/ 2006 5:38 For: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Seeking experience to produce biodiesel from Castor Anyone care to share any experiences with castor oil based biodiesel brewing using small-scale plants? I am told that castor oil dissolves in alcohols and external heating is eliminated from the process. I'm also hearing conjectures that castor based biodiesel will not freeze even below -20 deg C. Any pointers to more specific info along these lines? I'll get to my own brewing/learning experiments soon (and I'll start with proven processes and materials described on J2FE), but we could do with as much existing wisdom as we can get our hands on, especially because what we want to get into out here is not only for our personal consumption. Many thanks in advance for any help. Chandan Hi Chandan I can't share any experience of using castor oil but I can offer some information which might help. It's been discussed a few times before, I think other list members may have direct experience of it. List archives: http://snipurl.com/oeit Search results for 'castor' The one disadvantage mentioned, that I haven't seen an answer to, was that crushing the seeds creates a seriously bad odour, enough to put people off. Also the cake is poinsonous, but James Duke says: Although it is highly toxic due to the ricin, a method of detoxicating the meal has now been found, so that it can safely be fed to livestock. http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Ricinus_communis.html Ricinus communis The toxic principle is water-soluble so is not found in the oil. It's also said to be a drying oil, the equal of tung oil, yet it has a much lower Iodine Value, though Iodine Value is quite a crude indicator of whether oils will polymerise or not and castor oil seems to be an exception. On the other hand it has a longstanding reputation of being an excellent motor oil. This is an informative website about castor oil, and biodiesel generally: http://www.castoroil.in/uses/fuel/castor_oil_fuel.html Castor Oil as Biofuel Biodiesel - Info, WWW Resources on Castoroil as Bio-fuel, Bio-diesel Others: http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/afcm/castor.html Castorbeans http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/cgi-bin/arr_html?Ricinus+communis Ricinus communis http://snipurl.com/oeiu The Hindu Business Line : Gujarat Oleo Chem bags Rs 25-cr biodiesel order from IOC Gujarat Oleo Chem bags Rs 25-cr biodiesel order from IOC Mumbai , Aug 3 http://www.tierramerica.net/2003/0526/ianalisis.shtml Energy in a Castor Bean The castor-oil plant, ricinus communis, is the best source for creating biodiesel, say Brazilian experts. http://www.allbusiness.com/periodicals/article/278737-1.html First electricity from castor oil: Patrick Knight reports on how the biodiesel industry in Brazil is taking off. From Oils Fats International: Nov, 2004 issue Hope this helps. Best Keith From: Mike Redler [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 6/16/2006 10:59 For: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] castorbeans I'm wondering if such an oil producing plant is a good candidate for the urban fuel farmer. More specifically, those who don't have a lot of land and would welcome a crop that climbs. ...just a thought. Mike Jason Katie wrote: i believe the fruits all ripen at once, or close to it, and it was just over a week ago that i planted them(10 or 12 days) and YAY! i am thrilled ;) Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (most likely to get me) - Original Message - From: lres1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] castorbeans Good to hear of successes. Some questions and observations if you can help. Do the Castor seeds on the plant all ripen at one time? Have not had mine in long enough to know and using cuttings to speed up quantities for transplanting.Jatropha seeds do not all ripen at one time so picking/harvesting is or can be very labor intensive. How long did it take for your Castor beans to sprout all up? My Castor beans sprouted and grew. I then cut some of the branches and stuck them in compost and dirt mixed pots. Seems that most of the clippings are
Re: [Biofuel] DIE MICRO$OFT!!!!
Look at CentOs and Ubuntu also... Michael Redler wrote: Go Jason Go! */Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: i finally cracked to the point where i went to bed angry last night. M$ is really tweaking my tail and ive decided to take on the Hat. Linux FEDORA, here i come!!! Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (most likely to get me) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] DIE MICRO$OFT!!!!
Not cheap, but great machines chem.dd wrote: Dont go half way, relax and just buy a MAC. David - Original Message - From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 7:40 PM Subject: [Biofuel] DIE MICRO$OFT i finally cracked to the point where i went to bed angry last night. M$ is really tweaking my tail and ive decided to take on the Hat. Linux FEDORA, here i come!!! Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (most likely to get me) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Tanks for storing Biodiesel
I use 55 gal carwash drums; I clean them out well first and bu sure whay ever was in them was water-soluable DB wrote: I use my old methanol drums. If they are steel like mine then there is no lining. you can also use HDPE drums. But steel ones work just fine. I have been making bio-diesel since Dec 01 and have made thousands of gallons..DB - Original Message - *From:* Thomas Kelly mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Sunday, June 18, 2006 3:38 AM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Tanks for storing Biodiesel Hello to all, I would like to start storing some biodiesel to be used as heating fuel this winter. I have two 55 gallon (209L) drums that methanol came in. They are blue tanks with VP Racing on them. I was told that they are only used for methanol and are lined with something. I plan to tee them into my heating fuel line. Will they make suitable tanks for storing biodiesel? I'm a bit concerned about the lining. It is apparently a feature that makes them more valuable for methanol storage, but will biodiesel dissolve it? Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
I hate my lawn. Pointless, and the lawn owners are killing the Chesapeake bay w/ fertilizer robert and benita rabello wrote: JJJN wrote: Hello folks, any organic lawn experts out there? I have been encroaching out 75% of my lawn with food plants for both wildlife and humans, but I still have this 25% and living in town I need to keep it lawn. the question is how does one raise a great lawn without weed killers etc? I have been wondering , can you take compost and grind it really fine and spread it on the lawn water it in? Would this be good? I don't think this is off topic, as it relates directly to the mentality of dirt as a growing medium that is so pervasive and lies at the root of much difficulty in our society. I've actually had a lawn professional suggest that I rip out my lawn and replace it with garden. You seem to be more successful at growing vegetables than grass, he said. I've aereated my lawn this year and watered with mixture of compost tea and organic compost enhancement liquid. It's much greener and healthier than it's been in the past, but this method still smacks of replacing chemical fertilizers with non chemical fertilizers. It's not that I hate grass, but I'm NOT pleased with the monoculture mentality that insists it must be of a uniform species. When we first bought this property it was covered in grasses that were long and made a lovely sound as the seed heads touseled in the wind. But now, I keep the motley collection of grasses that pass for lawn on my property trimmed to 55 millimeters. If anyone has better ideas for lawn maintenance that will not raise the ire of my neighbors (who already think I'm weird), please let me know. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Since we're on the topic, ...Re: Lawn question off topic
I live in Virginia and my yard is infested with small red bugs - about the size of a lentil. Any idea what they are? Or, can someone point to a good resource for looking them up? robert and benita rabello wrote: Keith Addison wrote: Nicotine will kill everything else too, including the bugs that eat the bugs eating your grapevines. It won't kill the vines though. Best Keith This is why the whole pest management approach is fundamentally flawed. Plants should be able to tolerate mild infestation, and a system in balance should provide predators to keep the overall pest numbers down. I don't want to kill the wasps and ladybeetles that feed on the aphids infesting my plum trees. I want the trees healthy enough to deal with insect pests on their own. We have fruit on our plum trees for the first time! (Yeah!) But the ONE pear on our pear tree has fallen off, and the cherry tree has produced two cherries this year, one of which also fell off. The pink dogwood I planted for my sweetheart in our front yard looks far healthier than ever, and there's a ring of very dark grass around its drip line. That grass sends its side roots into the compost I've put beneath the dogwood tree, and as a result, has become the best looking grass on my property! My saintly mother-in-law came over for a visit yesterday and commented on how good our yard is looking. I haven't sprayed any of our trees this year because I want to see how well compost treatment works to strengthen them. She thinks we've learned a lot about soil remediation, and the evidence can be seen in vigorous growth and blossoming. Now, if only I could make enough compost to cover the entire lawn . . . robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Since we're on the topic, ...Re: Lawn question off topic
Hi Paul, I come from chigger country and these guys are bigger. Believe me, I know a chigger! Are there more than one kind of chigger? -Mike Paul S Cantrell wrote: Mike, Sounds like 'Red Bugs' or Chiggers to me. We have those here in South Carolina, too. Google either for many results. Red bug bites itch worse than flea or mosquito (skeeter) bites. They are a mite. This site has a picture: http://www.enature.com/fieldguides/detail.asp?fotogID=606curPageNum=16recnum=IS0151 Also, http://beaufortusa.com/chigger.htm Is that it? On 6/19/06, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I live in Virginia and my yard is infested with small red bugs - about the size of a lentil. Any idea what they are? Or, can someone point to a good resource for looking them up? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Meanwhile in the free world...
Republicans in the House of Representatives forced everyone to spend an entire day discussing a non-binding resolution praising the troops and labeling Iraq part of the War on Terror. Later they will debate a resolution declaring kittens 'adorable' --Jon Stewart)President Bush is creating a Marine sanctuary in the Pacific Ocean off the northwest islands of Hawaii. You know what that means? No oil there. --Jay Leno ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] I don't believe in Global Warming
here is my new car. Actually, I wonder if you could run the turbine off of BD? ;-) -Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Freakonomics - in defence of
Oh, you just like the Freak part pf Freakonmics! Michael Redler wrote: Doug wrote: I do agree with you that most present day economists are in an extreme state of denial regarding their relationship to moral issues. I would agree that there is a detachment but, I'm not sure that it's denial. I mean, denial is a defense mechanism, right? Have they become defensive or do they see a close attachment to moral issues as a leash which keeps their research within current moral boundaries. I want to be careful not to make blanket statements because some economists may depend on moral issues because it's within the scope of their research. Those who don't include those issues (IMO) have grown accustomed to certain methods and have created their own obstacles in reaching their objective. Personally, I'm equally interested in the public reaction to economists research. I think the degree by which people interpret research as a call to action is a measure of how our culture submits to fear and hatred. ...my $.02 Mike */Doug Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Hi Robert I'm afraid that I have to disagree your general dismissal of Levitt Dubner's book Freakonomics. Not all of the book was particularly gripping but I thought the book provided ammunition for both the conservative and liberal camps. The correlation between legalize abortion in the US and the dramatic decline in some crime rates was controlled for other factors such as increased police budgets, stiffer penalties, altered policing methods, etc. yet Levitt was still able to attribute a large majority of the diminished crime rate to legalized abortion. For me, the argument clincher was that several states legalized abortion before Roe vs. Wade and those states had crime rates fall before the rest of the country. The author even stated that legalize abortion was clearly not the direct cause of a decline in the crime rate. Rather Levitt proposed that perhaps children who were not rejected at birth by their parents are more likely behave in a socially condoned manner. Nor was all of the research in the book based strictly on correlational analysis. The section dealing with drug dealers who live with their mothers was based on evidence obtained from some sociological fieldwork that recovered a detailed set of accounting books and records used by a MBA grad turned drug kingpin. I do agree with you that most present day economists are in an extreme state of denial regarding their relationship to moral issues. That doesn't necessarily mean that the analytical tools they have developed over the years cannot be used for good. The burgeoning fields of ecological and true cost economics are two examples of the application of the statistical economic tools being used to address some of the issues that concern many people on this list. I just hope that they hurry up and spread the word a little faster, actually a lot faster. You may want to check out this link as a place to start http://adbusters.org/metas/eco/truecosteconomics/economists.html Doug -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of robert and benita rabello Sent: June 20, 2006 12:38 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Freakonomics Darryl McMahon wrote: There is an oblique reference to this in the archives. I have just finished reading the book, and recommend that people put it on their reading lists. (No time like the present to get on your public library's waiting list.) Yes, I think I'm the one who referenced it. This is one of my stockbroker sister's favorite books. I thoroughly enjoyed the book, even learned a thing or two. I was aware of the gun-related items, but I had not previously made the crime rate drop connection in the U.S. with Roe vs. Wade. The causal relationships the author mentions are tangential, at best. I'm sure a correlation can be made with the drop in crime rate versus GDP too. In fact, I'll bet you could correlate a drop in crime rate with the introduction of Viagra . . . Nice piece of de-spinning work. So many more subjects need more such treatment. It's a great book for NeoCons. From the epilogue: But the fact of the matter is that /Freakonomics/-style thinking simply doesn't traffic in morality. As we suggested near the beginning of this book, if morality represents an ideal world, then economics represents the actual world. If only we had reliable numbers . . . If only we could tabulate how much
Re: [Biofuel] Got A Little More Than Milk?
Yeah, Google mile and somatic cell count Keith Addison wrote: http://www.precaution.org/lib/06/prn_a_little_more_than_milk.060616.htm Rethinking Schools Online, June 1, 2006 Got A Little More Than Milk? Students get a glimpse into the corporate-controlled food system by looking at the politics of food [Rachel's introduction: After several days of discussion, the 11th- grade global studies class decided to follow the precautionary principle, http://www.precaution.org/lib/pp_def.htm which guides policy in many European nations, and institute a worldwide moratorium on genetically modified (GM) foods until they could be proven safe, and to require labeling of any GM foods that were approved for consumption. Furthermore, the summit voted to take away the right of any person or corporation to patent food.] By Tim Swinehart Got milk? Want strong bones? Drink milk. Want healthy teeth? Drink milk. Want big muscles? Drink milk. The glass of milk looks nice and cold and refreshing. If I had a warm, homemade chocolate chip cookie, it would make my day. They go perfect together. Ari and Colin could have been writing radio spots for the Oregon Dairyman's Association, but instead they were writing about the glass of milk I had set out moments earlier in the middle of the classroom. My instructions to the students were simple: Describe the glass of milk sitting before you. What does it make you think of? Does it bring back memories? Do you have any questions about the milk? An ode to milk? From the front row, Carl said, M... I'm thirsty. Can I drink it? Why don't you wait until the end of the period and then I'll check back with you on that, Carl, I responded. We had spent the last couple weeks discussing the politics of food in my untracked 11th grade global studies classes. And while students -- mostly working class and European American -- were beginning to show signs of an increased awareness about the implications of their own food choices, I wanted to find an issue that they would be sure to relate to on a personal level. One of my goals in designing a unit about food was to give students the opportunity to make some intimate connections between the social and cultural politics of globalization and the choices we make as individual consumers and as a society as a whole. A central organizing theme of the unit was choice, which we examined from multiple perspectives: How much choice do you have about the food that you eat? Do these choices matter? Does knowledge about the source/history of our food affect our ability to make true choices about our food? How does corporate control of the global food supply affect our choices and the choices of people around the world? I wanted to encourage my students to continue asking critical questions about the social and environmental issues surrounding food, even outside the confines of the classroom. I wanted to develop a lesson that would stick with them when they grabbed their afternoon snack or sat down for their next meal, something they might even feel compelled to tell their friends or family about. Milk turned out to have the sort of appeal I was looking for. For almost all my students, milk embodies a sort of wholesome, pure goodness, an image propped up by millions of dollars of advertising targeted especially toward children. My students had been ingrained with the message that milk does a body good for most of their lives and had been persuaded by parents, teachers, celebrities, and cafeteria workers to include milk as a healthy part of their day. But I believe that my students, along with the vast majority of the American public, hasn't been getting the whole story about milk. I wanted to introduce them to the idea that corporate interests -- oftentimes at odds with their own personal health -- hid behind the image of purity and health. Growth Hormones and Milk I wanted to help my students reexamine the images of purity and health that milk evoked by presenting them with some unsettling information about the Monsanto corporation's artificial growth hormone, rBGH. Recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH -- also known as Bovine Somatrotropin, bST, or rBST) is a genetically engineered version of the growth hormone naturally produced by cows, and was approved by the federal Food and Drug Administra-tion (FDA) in 1993 for the purpose of increasing a cow's milk production by an estimated 5 to 15 percent. Monsanto markets rBGH, under the trade name Posilac, as a way for dairy farmers to produce more milk with fewer cows, thereby providing dairy farmers with additional economic security (see www.monsantodairy.com). But with an increased risk of health problems for cows stressed from producing milk at unnaturally enhanced levels -- including more udder infections and reproductive problems -- critics argue that the only true economic security resulting from the sale of Posilac (rBGH) is the
Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore interview
I met Al Gore once, during a White House ceremony honoring those who worked on the Leland Initiative which brought Internet Connectivity to 21 African countries. Even as busy as we was, the did take two or three minutes to chat with each of us - he was very funny and quite personable. -Mike Keith Addison wrote: Glad you saw it. Yes, Gore sounds like such a cool guy! I guess it's just more on the Buy the Administration shenanegans. Block this great guy, get the richer one into office. Jesse http://members.aol.com/bblum6/aer34.htm Anti-Empire Report, June 21, 2006 The Anti-Empire Report Some things you need to know before the world ends June 21, 2006 by William Blum Moderation in temper is always a virtue; moderation in principle is always a vice. Thomas Paine Recently, Al Gore appeared at a bookstore in downtown Washington signing copies of his new book on environmental concerns, when who should show up on the line of people looking for a signed copy but Ralph Nader. Gore stood up and said: Nice to see you! How you doing? I'm really so grateful to you for coming by. After more pleasantries, Gore inscribed the book: For my friend, Ralph Nader. With respect, Al Gore. Two men in line could not resist remarking to Nader that if not for him Gore might have won the election in 2000. Thanks to you, we had Bush all these years, said one. How many are dead in Iraq because of that? [Washington Post, June 16, 2006, p.2] What Nader replied has not been reported. The idea that Ralph Nader cost the Democrats the 2000 election will likely persist forever, so let me state for all eternity, speaking for myself and for the millions like me: The choice facing us was not Ralph Nader or Albert Gore. The choice facing us was Ralph Nader or not voting at all. If Nader had not been on the ballot, we would have stayed home. The millions who voted for Nader and the millions more who stayed home demanded an inspiring alternative to the Republicans; even a halfway inspiring alternative would have sufficed for most of us. The Democrats did not, and still do not, offer any kind of alternative, particularly on foreign policy. On foreign policy the two major parties are completely indistinguishable. For all intents and purposes, the United States is a one-party state in all but name -- the War Party. The occasional minor points of difference which arise are Democratic artificial constructs created for election purposes, and in these cases the Democrats often take a position to the right of their Republican opponents, like calling for tougher measures in the war on terrorism or against Iran. This is the case with the Democrats whether we're speaking of the conservatives amongst them, or the moderates, or the liberals. And this has long been the case. Here is an excerpt from a talk delivered in 1965 by Carl Oglesby, President of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), at an anti-Vietnam War rally in Washington: The original commitment in Vietnam was made by President Truman, a mainstream liberal. It was seconded by President Eisenhower, a moderate liberal. It was intensified by the late President Kennedy, a flaming liberal. Think of the men who now engineer that war -- those who study the maps, give the commands, push the buttons, and tally the dead: Bundy, McNamara, Rusk, Lodge, Goldberg, the President [Johnson] himself. They are not moral monsters. They are all honorable men. They are all liberals. [November 27, 1965, copy of Oglesby's speech in my possession] On Jun 20, 2006, at 11:24 PM, JJJN wrote: Mark, I was in a Hotel last night in Bismarck North Dakota, I got to see the whole interview. I must say I am ready to see the movie. I wish more people could have seen Al in this light about 6 years ago. Jim mark manchester wrote: Ha-HAH! Same post, new title. This is a fantastic interview, guys, to which there has been no response at all~! Read! Or else let's talk about our lawns. (Lawns are important too, don't get all biofuelly on me..) Al Gore interview, last month, about his global warming platform and movie. I missed it, maybe you did too. Jesse http://www.macleans.ca/culture/films/article.jsp? content=20060522_127258_127 258 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Re: [Biofuel] Freakonomics - in defence of
Mission accomplished! Mike Redler wrote: Agh!! Now ya did it. I got that stupid music from the Heineken Light commercial ringing in my head. Don't you wish your girlfriend was a freak like me... Mike Weaver wrote: Oh, you just like the Freak part pf Freakonmics! Michael Redler wrote: Doug wrote: I do agree with you that most present day economists are in an extreme state of denial regarding their relationship to moral issues. I would agree that there is a detachment but, I'm not sure that it's denial. I mean, denial is a defense mechanism, right? Have they become defensive or do they see a close attachment to moral issues as a leash which keeps their research within current moral boundaries. I want to be careful not to make blanket statements because some economists may depend on moral issues because it's within the scope of their research. Those who don't include those issues (IMO) have grown accustomed to certain methods and have created their own obstacles in reaching their objective. Personally, I'm equally interested in the public reaction to economists research. I think the degree by which people interpret research as a call to action is a measure of how our culture submits to fear and hatred. ...my $.02 Mike [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Worldwide oil consumption seen soaring
My thoughts? Nuclear power is like having sex with a black widow spider. Feels good at first, but it's ultimately fatal. -Weaver chem.dd wrote: The bottom line is that the world has to go Hydrogen. Biofuels, as carbon neutral as they may be, are not the long term solution to this planet's energy and global warming needs. The question is, how do we get the hydrogen? Obviously not from fossil or biofuels, . From an objective scientific and engineering, as opposed to the politically correct view, the use of nuclear energy is the solution. ( Please don't scream Three Mile Island and Chernobyl) Fission reactors will have to do until we develop a functional fusion reactor which is by its physics inherently safe. Please let me know your thoughts on this. David - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 5:49 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Worldwide oil consumption seen soaring http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/20/markets/oil_intl_outlook.reut/index.htm Worldwide oil consumption seen soaring - Jun. 20, 2006 Reuters, June 20, 2006 Oil Consumption Seen Soaring Much of world's growth will take place in Asia, although U.S. will still use the most; OPEC needed to meet bulk of demand, EIA says. June 20, 2006: 9:34 AM EDT WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- World oil demand should soar from this year's almost 86 million barrels per day to 118 million bpd by 2030, even though higher fuel prices will cut back some petroleum usage, the U.S. government's top energy forecasting agency predicted Tuesday. Much of the growth in global oil consumption over the next quarter century will come from the non-industrialized nations in Asia, where the strong economies of China and India will gobble up more barrels, according to the Energy Information Administration, the statistical arm of the Department of Energy. Much of the world's incremental oil demand is projected for use in the transportation sector, where there are few competitive alternatives to petroleum, EIA said in its annual long-term international energy supply and demand forecast. The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries will provide a large chunk of the additional oil supplies that will be needed to meet demand in 2030, the EIA said. However, the agency said OPEC's total share of global supply will fall from 39.7 percent (34 million bpd) of this year's world oil demand to 38.4 percent (45.3 million bpd) of global oil demand in 2030. While worldwide oil consumption rises, expected high crude prices will reduce demand by some 8 million bpd more than forecast last year in 2025 to 111 million bpd, EIA said. This year's forecast has projections out to 2030 for the first time. Oil production from non-OPEC countries in West Africa and the Caspian Sea region is forecast to increase sharply and grab a larger share of the global oil market over the next 25 years. Oil output is expected to decline in Norway, Europe's largest producer, from a peak of 3.6 million bpd this year to 2.5 million bpd in 2030. Despite President Bush's call for the United States to end its addiction to oil, Americans will use more crude and retain the title of the world's biggest energy consumers. U.S. oil demand is forecast to jump from 20.8 million bpd this year to 27.6 million bpd in 2030, still accounting for about one out of every four barrels of crude consumed each day in the world. The EIA's long-term forecast to 2030 also predicted: - Global natural gas consumption will jump from 95 trillion cubic feet in 2003 to 182 trillion cubic feet. - Coal use will grow at an average annual rate of 2.5 percent. - High oil prices will raise concerns about the security of energy supplies and will increase nuclear power generating capacity. - Carbon dioxide emissions linked to global warming will rise from 25 billion tons in 2003 to 43.7 billion tons. Non-industrialized nations will account for 75 percent of the increase in emissions by 2030. - Renewables, like solar and wind power, will meet 9.1 percent of U.S. energy demand in 2030, almost double from 5.7 percent in 2003. Copyright 2006 Reuters ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Got A Little More Than Milk?
Yeah, except raw milk is illegal here in the land of the free. Cigarettes, no. Milk from the cow? Yes. Keith Addison wrote: Hi Keith, Last year I saw video footage of these cows with their poor infected udders that was EXTREMELY convincing never to drink milk again... We do get the organic butter and coffee cream but whew, is it really much better. Jesse Hi Jesse Well, that's the same mistake militant vegetarian cultists make when they point at factory farms as the reason for not eating meat, as if there's no good way of doing it. Yes, real milk really is much better - in fact it's not the same thing, they're both white and that's about where it ends. Raw milk from a healthy cow on fertile pasture is great food! http://www.realmilk.com/why.html Campaign for Real Milk Best Keith From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:30:45 +0900 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Got A Little More Than Milk? http://www.precaution.org/lib/06/prn_a_little_more_than_milk.060616.htm Rethinking Schools Online, June 1, 2006 Got A Little More Than Milk? Students get a glimpse into the corporate-controlled food system by looking at the politics of food [Rachel's introduction: After several days of discussion, the 11th- grade global studies class decided to follow the precautionary principle, http://www.precaution.org/lib/pp_def.htm which guides policy in many European nations, and institute a worldwide moratorium on genetically modified (GM) foods until they could be proven safe, and to require labeling of any GM foods that were approved for consumption. Furthermore, the summit voted to take away the right of any person or corporation to patent food.] By Tim Swinehart Got milk? Want strong bones? Drink milk. Want healthy teeth? Drink milk. Want big muscles? Drink milk. The glass of milk looks nice and cold and refreshing. If I had a warm, homemade chocolate chip cookie, it would make my day. They go perfect together. Ari and Colin could have been writing radio spots for the Oregon Dairyman's Association, but instead they were writing about the glass of milk I had set out moments earlier in the middle of the classroom. My instructions to the students were simple: Describe the glass of milk sitting before you. What does it make you think of? Does it bring back memories? Do you have any questions about the milk? An ode to milk? From the front row, Carl said, M... I'm thirsty. Can I drink it? Why don't you wait until the end of the period and then I'll check back with you on that, Carl, I responded. We had spent the last couple weeks discussing the politics of food in my untracked 11th grade global studies classes. And while students -- mostly working class and European American -- were beginning to show signs of an increased awareness about the implications of their own food choices, I wanted to find an issue that they would be sure to relate to on a personal level. One of my goals in designing a unit about food was to give students the opportunity to make some intimate connections between the social and cultural politics of globalization and the choices we make as individual consumers and as a society as a whole. A central organizing theme of the unit was choice, which we examined from multiple perspectives: How much choice do you have about the food that you eat? Do these choices matter? Does knowledge about the source/history of our food affect our ability to make true choices about our food? How does corporate control of the global food supply affect our choices and the choices of people around the world? I wanted to encourage my students to continue asking critical questions about the social and environmental issues surrounding food, even outside the confines of the classroom. I wanted to develop a lesson that would stick with them when they grabbed their afternoon snack or sat down for their next meal, something they might even feel compelled to tell their friends or family about. Milk turned out to have the sort of appeal I was looking for. For almost all my students, milk embodies a sort of wholesome, pure goodness, an image propped up by millions of dollars of advertising targeted especially toward children. My students had been ingrained with the message that milk does a body good for most of their lives and had been persuaded by parents, teachers, celebrities, and cafeteria workers to include milk as a healthy part of their day. But I believe that my students, along with the vast majority of the American public, hasn't been getting the whole story about milk. I wanted to introduce them to the idea that corporate interests -- oftentimes at odds with their own personal health -- hid behind the image of purity and health. Growth Hormones and Milk I wanted to help my students reexamine the images of purity and health that milk evoked by presenting them with some unsettling information about the
Re: [Biofuel] Worldwide oil consumption seen soaring
You all know perfectly well the answer is Dilithium Crystals. No arguments, please. robert and benita rabello wrote: chem.dd wrote: The bottom line is that the world has to go Hydrogen. Are you SURE you want to go there in this forum? I'd be laughing if your proposition wasn't so sad. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Worldwide oil consumption seen soaring
chem.dd, Have a look at what Chernobyl is like now. It's not like you really get a second chance when you screw up with nuclear. FWIW, I think if you had started your post with: Here are examples of nulclear power working successfully; the problems that caused Three Mile Island and Chernobyl are now solved - here's the proof: (insert proof) perhaps it merits a second look for these reasons 1,2,3, you would have had a better response. You mention scientific and engineering but then no examples or research. I think you set yourself up to get hammered. And no, I personally don't think nuclear power is a good option, but would read a well-constructed post as to why I'm wrong. -Weaver scientific and engineering, as opposed to the politically correct view, the use of nuclear energy is the solution. ( Please don't scream Three Mile Island and Chernobyl) Fission reactors will have to do until we develop a functional fusion reactor which is by its physics inherently safe. Please let me know your thoughts on this. jtcava wrote: I'm getting the idea that I wouldn't want many of the people here on this online comunity anywhere near me when sh*t happens. It is my outlook that everybody has something to offer in a true survival situation. John Keith Addison wrote: I would think this is the ideal forum for discussing any aspects and options for reducing our dependence on fossil fuels, particularly in terms of sustainability. Indeed it is, as a great deal of previous discussion residing in the list archives will attest, covering, I'm sure, all aspects of the issue. What is truly sad is closed mindedness. Wouldn't you think, David, that's it's perhaps a little closed-minded to arrive at a mature forum such as this and just naturally assume such an obvious subject hasn't been dealt with here before in the last six years? I think the reason Robert would be laughing if only it wasn't so sad is that your argument has had all the substance shot right out of it long ago. It's also a little closed-minded to to assume that it's Robert who's being closed-minded, apparently without checking first to see what he might have posted on the subject before, or even checking his website, though he provides the url. This, eg: http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/p5.htm Ranger Supercharger Project Maybe you owe him an apology. I have to say the same for your views on nuclear power: From an objective scientific and engineering, as opposed to the politically correct view, the use of nuclear energy is the solution. ( Please don't scream Three Mile Island and Chernobyl) Fission reactors will have to do until we develop a functional fusion reactor which is by its physics inherently safe. Please let me know your thoughts on this. That argument has also been shot down thoroughly and many times. I find it a little sad the way you ascribe objections to nuclear power to mere politically correctness. Not objective, eh, no facts? I suggest you go and do some reading, offlist, at the address listed at the end of every message you receive from the list: Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ When you've done that (make sure you do a thorough job), please come back and offer some support for your view that objections to nuclear power have only political correctness to support them. Thankyou. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner David - Original Message - From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Worldwide oil consumption seen soaring chem.dd wrote: The bottom line is that the world has to go Hydrogen. Are you SURE you want to go there in this forum? I'd be laughing if your proposition wasn't so sad. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel from Algae
Huh, that's funny, I have been very successful making algae from biodiesel, especially in the Summer. -Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Doug, - Original Message - From: doug swanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 12:33 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Worldwide oil consumption seen soaring When we first started hearing about Hydrogen, there had been relatively little research done on the difficulties that we are faced with when considering Hydrogen. Since then, there have been remarkable discoveries in the use of catalysts for brreaking the water molecule that assist in providing more bang for the buck. This reduces some of the energy in vs. the energy out equation, which still isn't as energy effective as fuels for which we already have infrastructure in place. TiO2 comes readily to mind. One way out, particularly for bypassing the low volumeteric energy density of H2 and hence the need for very storage pressures, is to use direct methanol fuel cells. I think nuclear has its place. And if you look up on a sunny day, you'll see the place I'm talking about. I feel that there will likely be some thinking outside the box discoveries (or in some cases, old ideas revisited) that will enable a more efficient conversion from solar nuclear to a transportable fuel in the future. To my way of thinking, biofuels are a stepping stone out of the stone age, where we will no longer depend on combustion for travel. A hundred years from now, our current hopes and designs for Hydrogen will probably be seen as yet another of those stepping stones to an efficient transportation system that doesn't leave behind toxins that generations for the rest of time will bear the consequences of. One of the cleanest and most effective transformations I can think of between the solar nuclear source, and the transportable fuel we use is photosynthesis, and nature has experience doing this... Waste products are used and recycled in the natural cycle. Imagine if we could duplicate the process... Carbon dioxide and water go in, solar energy is applied, and hydrocarbons and oxygen come out. This is exactly what goes on in an open pond/photobioreactor when assisted by CO2 supply. http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0111/p01s03-sten.html Building on NREL's Aquatic Species Programme, Dr. Isaac Berzin, an ex-MIT chemical engineer and CTO of Greenfuels Corp,. has estabished a 30 tube photobioreactor at MIT's 20 MW NG based cogen Power plant to convert CO2 in the flue gases into microalgae in the presence of sunlight (from the original nuclear reactor, Surya). He is now conducting scale up studies at 1000 MW plant.. He is not alone in this, others like Dr, Bayless of Greenshift Corp. Ohio University are working on more cost effective alternatives to achieve the same purpose. http://www.irccm.de/greenhouse/project.html The Universtiy of Bremen, alongwith Blue BioTech is also conducting similar studies on a 300 MW Power plant. The idea seems to particularly appeal to the pertroleum industry which is now faced with the inevitable. http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/06/petrosun_drilli.html PetroSun Drilling, an emerging provider of oilfield services to major and independent producers of oil and natural gas, has formed Algae BioFuels Inc. as a wholly-owned subsidiary. All these efforts are predicated on the much higher photosynthetic efficiency of microalgae (~ 5%) leading to much higher oil yields per acre @ 20-30 times compared to Tree Borne Oilseeds. Algae seem to be slowly coming out of the pond slime into the mainstream to claim their rightful place in the sun ;-) Someone will figure it out, probably even get a patent on something nature has been doing forever, a tree in your front yard will be seen as a patent infringement... LOL doug swanson snip Regards balaji ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Tanks for storing Biodiesel
Methoxide seemed to chew up my epoxy pretty good... Thomas Kelly wrote: Will, Thanks for the reply. I dropped a light inside the tank. The inside walls are a smooth light tan color. I decided to put some BD in one of them. I have 3 - 4 months until heating season. We'll see what happens between now and then. Tom - Original Message - *From:* Will Kelleher mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Monday, June 26, 2006 4:44 PM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Tanks for storing Biodiesel Tom, I know that some drum manufacturors sell 55 gallon steel drums with an epoxy lining. This could be the case with your methanol drum. I don't think the biodiesel will dissolve the epoxy, but I don't know for sure. Hope that helps. Will Kelleher On 6/18/06, *Thomas Kelly* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello to all, I would like to start storing some biodiesel to be used as heating fuel this winter. I have two 55 gallon (209L) drums that methanol came in. They are blue tanks with VP Racing on them. I was told that they are only used for methanol and are lined with something. I plan to tee them into my heating fuel line. Will they make suitable tanks for storing biodiesel? I'm a bit concerned about the lining. It is apparently a feature that makes them more valuable for methanol storage, but will biodiesel dissolve it? Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Tanks for storing Biodiesel
I'll try that - bear in mind this epoxy was exposed to methoxide, not finished BD. The methoxide really did a number on it. It may well be fine for BD storage and washing. Thomas Kelly wrote: Mike, I used JB Weld (epoxy?) to attach some fittings to my settling tank and to my wash tank. It has held up very well to biodiesel exposure. Tom - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Tanks for storing Biodiesel Methoxide seemed to chew up my epoxy pretty good... Thomas Kelly wrote: Will, Thanks for the reply. I dropped a light inside the tank. The inside walls are a smooth light tan color. I decided to put some BD in one of them. I have 3 - 4 months until heating season. We'll see what happens between now and then. Tom - Original Message - *From:* Will Kelleher mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Monday, June 26, 2006 4:44 PM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Tanks for storing Biodiesel Tom, I know that some drum manufacturors sell 55 gallon steel drums with an epoxy lining. This could be the case with your methanol drum. I don't think the biodiesel will dissolve the epoxy, but I don't know for sure. Hope that helps. Will Kelleher On 6/18/06, *Thomas Kelly* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello to all, I would like to start storing some biodiesel to be used as heating fuel this winter. I have two 55 gallon (209L) drums that methanol came in. They are blue tanks with VP Racing on them. I was told that they are only used for methanol and are lined with something. I plan to tee them into my heating fuel line. Will they make suitable tanks for storing biodiesel? I'm a bit concerned about the lining. It is apparently a feature that makes them more valuable for methanol storage, but will biodiesel dissolve it? Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator
Take the motor anyway! Is it any good? It'll fit a lot cars. Thomas Kelly wrote: Hello all, I'm interested in getting a diesel generator. A friend has offered me a VW Rabbit diesel engine (48HP) and says it would be great to power a generator. It seems a bit overkill. I was looking at 4 - 6 HP. Guidance here would be appreciated. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator
I have a 4.7 HP Changfa I've been happy with - it runs a 100 amp GM alternator - I get about 1200 watts out of it. I think it would easily run a 200 amp, or just buy a genset from Grainger if you want AC current. I expect it would handle 3000 - 4000 watts. It doesn't use much fuel but it is noisy - needs to be in a shed unless you are rural. -Mike ason Katie wrote: maybe rig up 2 or 3 generators to it? use a heavy motorcycle chain maybe? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (most likely to get me) - Original Message - *From:* Thomas Kelly mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:34 PM *Subject:* [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator Hello all, I'm interested in getting a diesel generator. A friend has offered me a VW Rabbit diesel engine (48HP) and says it would be great to power a generator. It seems a bit overkill. I was looking at 4 - 6 HP. Guidance here would be appreciated. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator
I have mine in a shed - boat shops have sound-deadening material. Zeke is the guy to ask about plans and how it should fit together... Thomas Kelly wrote: Mike, I have a concern about noise from a generator. I live in a rural area closest neighbor is about .3 mi away. I live here because I like peace and quiet. I sometimes sit in the garden and listen to the caterpillars eating leaves on my trees. The friend who's offering the VW engine has a 12 or 15KW Changfa ... it's loud!!! My thinking is to build a small generator house into a slope on my property line the inside with foam or something to deaden the sound . muffler on the exhaust. The idea is to keep the heat on and the well pump going when there's an interuption in power. I'd like the energy for processing BD to come from a generator run on BD. I think solar will be part of my energy future (not including the plant middle man I already rely on). With improvements in batteries and inverters, it would seem possible to add PV arrays to supplement the diesel generator, and eventually take over. I know little about generators, PV arrays, batteries or inverters, but at this time last year I hadn't made anything bigger than 1L batches of BD, had never driven a diesel car, and knew nothing about nozzles, electrodes, or even what the little door on my furnace were for. A lot can happen in a year. Tom - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator I have a 4.7 HP Changfa I've been happy with - it runs a 100 amp GM alternator - I get about 1200 watts out of it. I think it would easily run a 200 amp, or just buy a genset from Grainger if you want AC current. I expect it would handle 3000 - 4000 watts. It doesn't use much fuel but it is noisy - needs to be in a shed unless you are rural. -Mike ason Katie wrote: maybe rig up 2 or 3 generators to it? use a heavy motorcycle chain maybe? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (most likely to get me) - Original Message - *From:* Thomas Kelly mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:34 PM *Subject:* [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator Hello all, I'm interested in getting a diesel generator. A friend has offered me a VW Rabbit diesel engine (48HP) and says it would be great to power a generator. It seems a bit overkill. I was looking at 4 - 6 HP. Guidance here would be appreciated. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator
It's a rebuilt small frame from an 80's diesel caddy Jason Katie wrote: how old of a gm alternator? you could bypass the diode set and get unregulated AC out of it anyway. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (most likely to get me) - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator I have a 4.7 HP Changfa I've been happy with - it runs a 100 amp GM alternator - I get about 1200 watts out of it. I think it would easily run a 200 amp, or just buy a genset from Grainger if you want AC current. I expect it would handle 3000 - 4000 watts. It doesn't use much fuel but it is noisy - needs to be in a shed unless you are rural. -Mike ason Katie wrote: maybe rig up 2 or 3 generators to it? use a heavy motorcycle chain maybe? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (most likely to get me) - Original Message - *From:* Thomas Kelly mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:34 PM *Subject:* [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator Hello all, I'm interested in getting a diesel generator. A friend has offered me a VW Rabbit diesel engine (48HP) and says it would be great to power a generator. It seems a bit overkill. I was looking at 4 - 6 HP. Guidance here would be appreciated. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Tanks for storing Biodiesel
That's nuthin' - I once used JB Weld to rebuild the front of the crank where the harmonic balancer bolt to on a Ford 460. Ran for years... Zeke Yewdall wrote: I've also used JB weld to attach the temp sensor to the engine block on my VW, and so far, it has survived 6 months of biodiesel exposure (fuel line leak soaked entire engine) and regular heating to 190 - 225F. I do know that brake fluid will slowly dissolve JB weld though. I used it to seal a hole in the brake booster of my bus (non pressure side of the brake fluid), and after a year or so, it was more like jello, and fell off again. On 6/27/06, *Thomas Kelly* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, I used JB Weld (epoxy?) to attach some fittings to my settling tank and to my wash tank. It has held up very well to biodiesel exposure. Tom - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Tanks for storing Biodiesel Methoxide seemed to chew up my epoxy pretty good... Thomas Kelly wrote: Will, Thanks for the reply. I dropped a light inside the tank. The inside walls are a smooth light tan color. I decided to put some BD in one of them. I have 3 - 4 months until heating season. We'll see what happens between now and then. Tom - Original Message - *From:* Will Kelleher mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Monday, June 26, 2006 4:44 PM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Tanks for storing Biodiesel Tom, I know that some drum manufacturors sell 55 gallon steel drums with an epoxy lining. This could be the case with your methanol drum. I don't think the biodiesel will dissolve the epoxy, but I don't know for sure. Hope that helps. Will Kelleher On 6/18/06, *Thomas Kelly* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello to all, I would like to start storing some biodiesel to be used as heating fuel this winter. I have two 55 gallon (209L) drums that methanol came in. They are blue tanks with VP Racing on them. I was told that they are only used for methanol and are lined with something. I plan to tee them into my heating fuel line. Will they make suitable tanks for storing biodiesel? I'm a bit concerned about the lining. It is apparently a feature that makes them more valuable for methanol storage, but will biodiesel dissolve it? Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator
Don't bother putting it in a vanagon, tho' Zeke Yewdall wrote: Yeah, Mike's got a point. It'll pretty much bolt into any volkswagen, diesel or gas, made between 1977 and 1996 or thereabouts. If it's a good engine, you might be able to find an old VW jetta with a toasted engine, drop it in, and have a biodiesel car. On 6/27/06, *Mike Weaver* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Take the motor anyway! Is it any good? It'll fit a lot cars. Thomas Kelly wrote: Hello all, I'm interested in getting a diesel generator. A friend has offered me a VW Rabbit diesel engine (48HP) and says it would be great to power a generator. It seems a bit overkill. I was looking at 4 - 6 HP. Guidance here would be appreciated. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Tanks for storing Biodiesel
So that's why you sound so funny on the phone... Michael Redler wrote: Oh yea? Well, I use JB Weld to do my own dental fillings and crowns. */Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: That's nuthin' - I once used JB Weld to rebuild the front of the crank where the harmonic balancer bolt to on a Ford 460. Ran for years... [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator
You can rewind those old GM small frames for more juice - I picked it because I had a friend with and old one and as a one-time mechanic I'm familiar with them. There is a ton of stuff on the web re HO alternators if you are after DC. For AC, I would go with a decent genset - the ones they sell at Northern and Harbour Freight seem to fry after awhile - not sure they are designed for long continuous use. -Mike -Mike Zeke Yewdall wrote: On sound deadening, it is amazing how much sound comes out of the Intake of the VW engines (in addition to the exhaust which is the obvious place that most people take). On my rabbit, I've got a short 3 diameter pipe going into the air cleaner (which is built into the intake manifold), and it's pretty loud. The stock intake is designed to muffle the sound more (and also cuts a bit of power out -- it accelerates noticeably faster with the new short wide intake pipe). The water cooled engine jacket will cut down on some of the sound compared to an air cooled diesel, but still, putting it in a underground shed might be a good idea. This is one reason I am a big fan of PV vs biodiesel generators -- places where I want power, you can't even hear a car within a few miles, so I don't want to be listening to a droning generator.Snow also makes a great sound deadener. Seriously, 100 yards of snow covered conifers can deaden even an air cooled lawnmower engine down to nothing Of course, that time of year is when you don't get any sun for the PV's either On 6/28/06, *Jason Katie* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the majority of gm parts from the early 50's to the mid 80's were standardized (except buick) so if you are in the boneyard sometime, fancy a look into buying another alternator to experiment with. you can change these mid 80s alternators just about any way you want, i had one with a variable control field, that would output whatever voltage i wanted depending on how i set the field feed. very versatile equipment those alternators. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (most likely to get me) - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator It's a rebuilt small frame from an 80's diesel caddy Jason Katie wrote: how old of a gm alternator? you could bypass the diode set and get unregulated AC out of it anyway. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (most likely to get me) - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator I have a 4.7 HP Changfa I've been happy with - it runs a 100 amp GM alternator - I get about 1200 watts out of it. I think it would easily run a 200 amp, or just buy a genset from Grainger if you want AC current. I expect it would handle 3000 - 4000 watts. It doesn't use much fuel but it is noisy - needs to be in a shed unless you are rural. -Mike ason Katie wrote: maybe rig up 2 or 3 generators to it? use a heavy motorcycle chain maybe? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (most likely to get me) - Original Message - *From:* Thomas Kelly mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:34 PM *Subject:* [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator Hello all, I'm interested in getting a diesel generator. A friend has offered me a VW Rabbit diesel engine (48HP) and says it would be great to power a generator. It seems a bit overkill. I was looking at 4 - 6 HP. Guidance here would be appreciated. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever
Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator
Take it! Thomas Kelly wrote: Mindy, Waddya mean the Lister is the noisiest generator? I listened to one the other day Chug - Chuga - Chug - Chuga . I thought I was listening to the rhythm section of a band. You think I ought to pass on a Lister? Too noisy? Tom - Original Message - *From:* Thompson, Mark L. (PNB RD) mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:41 PM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator In Alaska we had a 2 cylinder 4Kw Lister. The absolute nosiest generator in creation. But it did run for 20 years 12h/day 6m/year without a problem. In our case we took a 55 gallon drum. placed a divider in it, and filled it with gavel, and buried it in the ground. The divider had holes cut into it at the bottom. The exhaust went in one Bung - Down to bottom - back up the other side - and then into the stack. It worked great as a muffler. We built a small building to house it and used 1' layer sod/tundra to insulate the building walls. Mindy *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Kirk McLoren *Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:17 AM *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator Dont forget to mount the motor on vibration damper. Also consider cooling flow and combustion air. Sound studios use labyrinths/baffles on air conditioning Kirk */Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I have mine in a shed - boat shops have sound-deadening material. Zeke is the guy to ask about plans and how it should fit together... Thomas Kelly wrote: Mike, I have a concern about noise from a generator. I live in a rural area closest neighbor is about .3 mi away. I live here because I like peace and quiet. I sometimes sit in the garden and listen to the caterpillars eating leaves on my trees. The friend who's offering the VW engine has a 12 or 15KW Changfa ... it's loud!!! My thinking is to build a small generator house into a slope on my property line the inside with foam or something to deaden the sound . muffler on the exhaust. The idea is to keep the heat on and the well pump going when there's an interuption in power. I'd like the energy for processing BD to come from a generator run on BD. I think solar will be part of my energy future (not including the plant middle man I already rely on). With improvements in batteries and inverters, it would seem possible to add PV arrays to supplement the diesel generator, and eventually take over. I know little about generators, PV arrays, batteries or inverters, but at this time last year I hadn't made anything bigger than 1L batches of BD, had never driven a diesel car, and knew nothing about nozzles, electrodes, or even what the little door on my furnace were for. A lot can happen in a year. Tom - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver To: Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator I have a 4.7 HP Changfa I've been happy with - it runs a 100 amp GM alternator - I get about 1200 watts out of it. I think it would easily run a 200 amp, or just buy a genset from Grainger if you want AC current. I expect it would handle 3000 - 4000 watts. It doesn't use much fuel but it is noisy - needs to be in a shed unless you are rural. -Mike ason Katie wrote: maybe rig up 2 or 3 generators to it? use a heavy motorcycle chain maybe? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (most likely to get me) - Original Message - *From:* Thomas Kelly *To:* biofuel *Sent:* Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:34 PM *Subject:* [Biofuel] VW Diesel to power a generator Hello all, I'm interested in getting a diesel generator. A friend has offered me a VW Rabbit diesel engine (48HP) and says it would be great to power a generator. It seems a bit overkill. I
Re: [Biofuel] China to flood US with improved Appleseeds for $220
touchless processor Indeed. Hrmpph I haven't touched my processor in months. Too busy bailing water... Keith Addison wrote: I don't know Wu Qing-Yuan or Yanson Corp in China, but he sent me this message below without comment, I guess he wants some publicity. I don't know if he checked it with Rudi first, but it says all over our website that we're journalists after all. I couldn't get much sense out of Yanson's website, no pics that I could find, but maybe someone else will do better. It sure does sound like a big improvement on the Appleseed, with all its problems. Let alone the FuelMeister: http://snipurl.com/h9ou Re: [biofuel] Best Processer However, there's this, about the Appleseed, in a previous message: Uh, it's not the same as Dale's touchless processor. It's a cheapo rip-off of Dale's processor, which is not acknowledged by the people who promote it. -- See: Re: [Biofuel] appleseed drainage http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg57690.html That's Biofuel list member Dale Scroggins, who designed the original Touchless processor: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html#touchfree That was in Jan 2001, and Dale announced it here: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg02074.html [biofuel] Re: Biodiesel - no catalyst Aw, shucks, it's really nothing special. Just a 100-liter processor made from mostly salvaged materials that almost fills itself, mixes everything, recovers the unused methanol, washes and dries the ester pretty much by flipping a few switches. ;o) -- Dale Scroggins, Thu, 11 Jan 2001 It's still an advanced design, five years later. Maria Girl Mark Alovert produced her dumbed-down version of it late in 2003. Six months later she wrote to me in connection with her Appleseed reactor, as she now called it: I want to write to dale scroggins and point him to the things his touchless has spawned. I don't know if she ever did write to Dale, but I've never heard of her acknowledging that in public, maybe she has, but she sure doesn't push it. Now the unacknowledged rip-off that doesn't work properly has been fixed (probably) and is being mass-produced, China patent pending. But I'm sure Dale's part in it will remain unacknowledged. That's one reason I'm posting this message here. Another reason is that we established at the list that the FuelMeister can be assembled from parts costing a few hundred dollars, though Rudi sells it for $3,000 - er, sorry, that's only $2,995 - plus all the add-ons that should be part of the package in the first place. I wonder what he'll be charging for OEM Appleseeds he pays $220 for? Girl Mark also sells her Appleseeds for about $3,000. Rudi needs a new trick anyway, I see quite a few other people flogging FuelMeister lookalikes in the US now, even if Josh doesn't endorse them. Anyway, IMNSHO it's the people who get it right that will make the difference and all this other stuff just doesn't matter in the long run. I really don't care about some guy who's agonising over whether to buy a FuelMeister or an Appleseed or just use DSE or Acusorb beads, but on the other hand I suppose it's no bad thing if Rudi junks the odious FuelMeister in favour of these neo-Appleseeds from China. Best Keith Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:14:52 -0700 (PDT) From: yanson corp [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OEM-outsourcing (biodiesel) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Mr. Wu Qing-Yuan: I am the president of Biodiesel Solutions of Reno, NV, the home of the FuelMeister processor. We are the world¡¯s leading supplier of personal-scale biodiesel production equipment. We are VERY interested in importing and marketing your machines in the USA. While we currently manufacture these machines ourselves, we are primarily a ¡°system integrator¡±, ¡°marketer¡± and ¡°value-added service provider¡± for biodiesel equipment. We have a trained and active network of over 53 dealers in the USA alone, plus many more overseas. If you are interested in rapidly opening up the US market for biodiesel equipment, please send me details about your product offerings. Best regards, Rudi Wiedemann President / CEO Biodiesel Solutions, Inc. 1395 Greg Street, #102 Sparks, NV 89431 877-358-6400 (toll free) 775-358-6400x101 (direct) 775-358-6499 (fax) http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/www.biodieselsolutions.com - - We are the low-cost OEM (original equipment manufacturer) of a house-designed 50-gallon all-metal personal homebrew processor (reaction chamber) destined for a biodiesel supply business in the US. (First shipment arriving L.A. port early July.) This reaction chamber (RC) tank features a conical bottom for easy drainage, a substantial improvement over flat-bottomed water heater conversion. The inner vessel is stainless steel and removable outer casing and cap are regular steel, with 1 Styrofoam
Re: [Biofuel] Republican to English Dictionary
There ARE no Republicans anymore. These guys aren't Republicans! D. Mindock wrote: I'd like to believe that not ALL Republicans are bad news. The dictionary below does fit the vast majority though, sadly. Peace, D. Mindock Subject: Republican to English Dictionary Republican-to-English Dictionary for those having trouble deciphering recent speeches and news reports: alternative energy sources (n.) New locations to drill for gas and oil. bankruptcy (n.) A means of escaping debt available to corporations but not to poor people. burning bush (n.) A biblical allusion to the response of the President of the United States, when asked a question by a journalist who has not been paid to inquire about non-issues. Cheney, Dick (n.) The greater of two evils. class warfare (n.) Any attempt to raise the minimum wage. climate change (n.) Progress toward the blessed day when the blue states are swallowed by the oceans. compassionate conservatism (n.) Poignant concern for the very wealthy. creation science (n.) Pseudo-science that claims George W. Bush's resemblance to a chimpanzee is totally coincidental. DeLay, Tom (n.) Past tense of De Lie. extraordinary rendition (n.) Outsourcing torture. faith (n.) The belief that the Beatitudes (statements made by JC) include Blessed are the rich and Blessed are the war-makers. free markets (n.) Halliburton no-bid contracts at taxpayer expense. girly-men (n.) Males who neglect opportunities to grope unwilling women. God (n.) Senior presidential adviser. growth (n.) 1. The justification for tax cuts for the rich. 2. What happens to the national debt when policy is made according to Definition 1. healthy forest (n.) No tree left behind. honesty (n.) Lies told in simple declarative sentences (e.g., Freedom is on the march.) House of Representatives (n.) Exclusive club; entry fee: $1 million to $5 million (See: Senate). insanity (n.) See: staying the course. laziness (n.) When the poor are not working. leisure time (n.) When the wealthy are not working. liberal(s) (n.) Followers of the Antichrist. No Child Left Behind (riff.) There are always jobs in the military. ownership society (n.) 1. A civilization where 1 percent of the population controls 90 percent of the wealth. 2. A political system in which all power is in the hands of the owners. Patriot Act (n.) 1. Pre-emptive strike on American freedoms to prevent the terrorists from destroying them first. 2. The elimination of one of the reasons why they hate us. pro-life (adj.) Valuing human life up until birth. senate (n.) Exclusive club; entry fee: $10 million to $30 million. simplify (v.) To cut the taxes of Republican donors. staying the course (interj.[slang]) Continuing to perform the same actions and expecting different results (See: insanity). stuff happens (interj.[slang]) I don't have to live in Baghdad. [the poor (n.) losers who fail to avail themselves of the abundant opportunities of this Great Nation.] [truth (n.) something, sometimes called facts, that blocks reality as seen by men of unlimited vision thus is to be denied existance] voter fraud (n.) A significant minority turnout. woman (n.) 1. Person who can be trusted to raise a child but can't be trusted to decide whether or not she wishes to have a child. 2. Person who must have all decisions regarding her reproductive functions made by men with whom she wouldn't want to have sex in the first place. War - except in self-defense - is a failure of moral imagination, political nerve and diplomacy. ~~ Bill Moyers Gabriel Palmer-Fernandez, Ph.D. Director, Dr. James Dale Ethics Center Professor, Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies Youngstown State University One University Plaza Youngstown, OH 44555 Work Phone: 330.941.1465 Fax: 330.941.1600 __._,_.___ . __,_._,___ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Batch next week
Troo. I joined it to argue with Redler. Keith Addison wrote: Anyone in the Chicago area brewing a batch next week? A friend of mine up near lincolnshire wants to watch someone do a batch and learn from it. Why learn other people's bad habits when you can develop bad habits of your very own? LOL! True though - you don't need anyone to hold your hand: NOTE: You don't need to join the Biofuel list to learn how to make biodiesel. Start here: Where do I start? Follow the instructions, step by step. Study everything on that page and the next page and at the links in the text. It tells you everything you need to know. Many list members who've done it themselves say the same thing. If you ask novice questions at the list that have been answered many times before, that's what you'll be told (or asked to check the list archives, see below). There's a lot to learn, but it's simple, and you don't have to be a chemist to do it, very few biodieselers are chemists or engineers. Thousands of ordinary people have done this without any other help, and so can you. You don't need anyone to hold your hand, and you don't need to find another biodieseler in your area first so you can see their set-up in action. Do it yourself, you'll be just fine. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html#learn Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Batch next week
No you're not. Michael Redler wrote: I'm flattered. It's true though. I've developed all kinds of bad habits on my own. */Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Troo. I joined it to argue with Redler. Keith Addison wrote: Anyone in the Chicago area brewing a batch next week? A friend of mine up near lincolnshire wants to watch someone do a batch and learn from it. Why learn other people's bad habits when you can develop bad habits of your very own? LOL! True though - you don't need anyone to hold your hand: NOTE: You don't need to join the Biofuel list to learn how to make biodiesel. Start here: Where do I start? Follow the instructions, step by step. Study everything on that page and the next page and at the links in the text. It tells you everything you need to know. Many list members who've done it themselves say the same thing. If you ask novice questions at the list that have been answered many times before, that's what you'll be told (or asked to check the list archives, see below). There's a lot to learn, but it's simple, and you don't have to be a chemist to do it, very few biodieselers are chemists or engineers. Thousands of ordinary people have done this without any other help, and so can you. You don't need anyone to hold your hand, and you don't need to find another biodieseler in your area first so you can see their set-up in action. Do it yourself, you'll be just fine. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html#learn ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Zero Emissions Coal/Hydrogen Plant
Perhaps there are both correct. We humans seem to forget we are not Gods, especially when it come to fooling around with natural realm and beyond. bob allen wrote: one possiblity is a catastrophic failure of the storage resevior, a la Lake Nyos http://www.geology.sdsu.edu/how_volcanoes_work/Nyos.html At 9:30 p.m. on August 12, 1986, a cloudy mixture of carbon dioxide (CO2) and water droplets rose violently from Lake Nyos, Cameroon. As the lethal mist swept down adjacent valleys, it killed over 1700 people, thousands of cattle, and many more birds and animals. Local villagers attributed the catastrophe to the wrath of a spirit woman of local folklore who inhabits the lakes and rivers. Scientists, on the other hand, were initially puzzled by the root cause, and by the abrupt onset, of this mysterious and tragic event. Bob Carr wrote: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 1:27 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Zero Emissions Coal/Hydrogen Plant Plans call for the 275-megawatt plant to capture most of its emissions of carbon dioxide -- a greenhouse gas widely blamed for global warming -- and inject them permanently into underground reservoirs, a process called sequestration. Questions... Does sequestration on this scale really work? How do they plan to make the CO2 actually stay in the ground? A 275 megawatt ower plant would produce CO2 at the rate of tons per day. multiply that by 365 and then by the amount of years the plant is expected to run, say 20. We are now talking about tens of thousands of tons of CO2 swept under the carpet, (ok, pumped into the ground then) from just one relatively small power plant. So how long before it starts to leak out of the ground possibly hundreds of miles away from the original site? When if it gets noticed at all, will probably be blamed on natural phenomena. Personally I reckon that even if all that gas is permanently sequestered, we are still creating further problems for our future generations. Am I being over cynuical here? Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Zero Emissions Coal/Hydrogen Plant
Think more of a sponge...these they dry out they don't really collapse Zeke Yewdall wrote: Just imagine Saudi Arabia and Texas turning into a huge sink hole because of all the oil pump out of them. So what's the problem with that. I'd feel sorry for Saudi Arabia I guess, but Texas? It does seem like the whole carbon sequestration idea is a continuation of the mindset that we can throw stuff we don't want away. We just have to figure out where away is (and that away doesn't come back to haunt us, which it seems it tends to do with just about everything else we throw away. For a short term stop-gap measure, perhaps it makes sense to try it, but long term, wouldn't it make more sense not to generate it to begin with On 7/1/06, *Jeff Lyles* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One other thing to think about is that when you pump oil out of the ground, something has to go back in the ground to replace it to keep a big sink hole from happening. (Just imagine Saudi Arabia and Texas turning into a huge sink hole because of all the oil pump out of them.) It use to be that water was put in the ground, but now CO2 is. My question has been if the fossil fuel companies fudge on the amount of CO2 put into the ground, like they fudge on everything else, then at what point in time will huge sink hole start appearing in oil fields? Jeff - Original Message - From: Bob Carr [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Zero Emissions Coal/Hydrogen Plant - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 1:27 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Zero Emissions Coal/Hydrogen Plant Plans call for the 275-megawatt plant to capture most of its emissions of carbon dioxide -- a greenhouse gas widely blamed for global warming -- and inject them permanently into underground reservoirs, a process called sequestration. Questions... Does sequestration on this scale really work? How do they plan to make the CO2 actually stay in the ground? A 275 megawatt ower plant would produce CO2 at the rate of tons per day. multiply that by 365 and then by the amount of years the plant is expected to run, say 20. We are now talking about tens of thousands of tons of CO2 swept under the carpet, (ok, pumped into the ground then) from just one relatively small power plant. So how long before it starts to leak out of the ground possibly hundreds of miles away from the original site? When if it gets noticed at all, will probably be blamed on natural phenomena. Personally I reckon that even if all that gas is permanently sequestered, we are still creating further problems for our future generations. Am I being over cynuical here? Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] US Marine Assaults Protesters in Connecticut!
Well, for one, we geeks need to get moving so that this sort of thing can be broadcast live wirelessly - if 20 of the protesters had live video cameras I imagine it would change things. Thoughts? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like it! Been there. Done that. It was an Oliver North book signing at a christian bookstore no less. Sometimes the righteous just don't care if they push you into rushing automobile traffic. Of course we all know, that's what Jesus would do, not. First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. --- Mahatma Gandhi Pity the man who makes himself out to be more than he is or empowered to be. Todd Swearingen snip... On June 27th at 5pm five anti-war activists heeded the National Call to Action in support of Lt. Ehren Watada ( http://www.thankyoult.org/) and Suzanne Swift (http://www.suzanneswift.org/) who are soldiers who are facing punishment for refusing to deploy to Iraq. They peacefully chanted and held signs while passing out information on the resisting soldiers and counter-recruitment literature. Although an officer called the police, they engaged in civil discussions with various soldiers and pedestrians and were invited back for the next day when the colonel would be in town. They left chanting We'll be back! See you tomorrow! The activists kept their word and returned the following day with four times as many people. Things started out peacefully but that quickly changed when an aggravated marine officer began yelling and sent a young recruit to retrieve a baseball bat. He lunged wildly at the protesters with the bat in their faces while threatening physical violence. The activists did not respond in any way and tried to diffuse the situation peacefully. One activist pulled out their cell phone to take a picture. The marine pushed two activists off the curb into the street and knocked the phone out of the other activists hand. He picked up the phone, erased the picture and only after police arrived at the scene did he back down. Meanwhile his fellow soldiers stood back and did nothing. When the police arrived, the marine was still holding the bat. Yet the police approached the protesters immediately. The marine was allowed to leave the scene with the phone he had taken and returned to his duties, training the Junior Marine Corps. Meanwhile the police insisted that protesters had provoked this reaction from the marine by exercising their free speech rights. He insisted that they move their protest to the opposite side of the street. When asked politely by protesters why they were required to do this, pointing out that they were on a public sidewalk, he declared This is MY sidewalk. He implied that if they did not move they would be arrested when he said You can do whatever you want, but in the end I'll win. He then proceeded to call in police paddy wagons to intimidate. After 45 minutes, the phone was returned but the police refused to divulge the identity of the marine. Throughout this outrageous incident, the activists maintained composure and did absolutely nothing to aggravate the situation. They immediately called a member of the National Lawyers Guild and other allies. Upon some discussion and legal advice, the protesters moved to the opposite side of the street to avoid escalating the situation. At this point the news cameras arrived and the protesters continued to chant loudly until the soldiers went home and their offices closed. This is not over. They are holding a press conference this Wednesday July 5th at 5pm in front of the Orange St. recruiting station. We can't let the government intimidate us!! Demands: 1. A public apology from both the US Marine Corps and the New Haven Police Department. 2. That the officer that assaulted us be removed from his duties and provided appropriate counseling but NOT jail time. 3. That our free speech rights are guaranteed in all public places including in front of the recruiting station. 4. Free Lt. Ehren Watada, Specialist Suzanne Swift and all other jailed war resisters! 5. Fund GI healthcare! ( http://www.courant.com/news/specials/hc-mental1a.artmay14,0,6150281.story) 6. Bring the TROOPS HOME NOW! TAKE ACTION! Call the US Marine Corps Recruiting Command Orange St, New Haven, CT - 203-789-4484 Regional Office, Springfield, MA - 413-594-4623 or 2033 -- Major Lawrence Coleman, Sergeant Major Cevet Adams Call the New Haven Police Department Chief Francisco Ortiz - 203-946-6333 General - 203-946-6316 or 6120 Internal Values and Ethics - 203-946-6249 or 6250 --Officers Ratti (#463), Hartnett (#4), Knickerbocker (#80) Come to the Press Conference and Rally Wednesday, July 5 - 5PM 157 Orange St. New Haven, CT 06511 For More Info/directions/get involved call Todd 203-506-2414 For every emotionaly disturbed Marine desperately in need
Re: [Biofuel] was..was..smart car coming to US in 2008
I've been thinking that what I need would be a two seater with a fairly large storage space as I usually go downtown with servers and stuff. My Golf works ok with the seats down, but if the whole vehicle were designed for hauling small and medium loads a Smart Car design would be perfect. Now think of a diesel/electric hybrid... -Weaver AltEnergyNetwork wrote: Haken, I've seen the 2 seater up really close, took a look inside, watched it being parked in a miniscule spot, been behind one and in front of one in traffic, haven't driven one yet. They are really cool little cars. I think it is going to fill an important niche market for couriers, deliveries, fleets and businesses that like the fact that it sips thimbles of gasoline. Still, in order to wean Americans off of their obsession with suvs, it might be a good idea if the company made a heftier 4 seater utility that would appeal to the suv crowd and still sip at the pump. Image is everything and if the average joe thinks that they can get one of these green machines and still be able to lug around the stuff that they do AND save at the pump, great. It's the old having cake and eating it too syndrome but people respond to it, regards tallex Smart Car Coming to US in 2008 Launch by DaimlerChrysler http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1151818384.news ---Original Message--- From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] was..smart car coming to US in 2008 Sent: 02 Jul '06 08:22 Tallex, The market for 250 pound people is very much smaller in Europe than in US and I think that it is not a primary target for SMART cars. Do not only look at one, try it and you will be surprised on how spacious it is for 2 people and how well it transport/park for urban dwellers. I do however agree on the problems in US, it is little space for the oversized chip and snack packs, that seems to be the essentials for US commuters. I am not a small person 186 centimeter and 96 kilo (which is too much), but I fit well in a Smart. I did however not consider the image problem. Hakan At 09:15 02/07/2006, you wrote: That's great Haken, so if they already have a four seater, it is not to much of a stretch to do a minivan version as well and still be considered a smart car? Also, I've seen the two seater and while really cool, there is no way you are going to fit 2 - 250 pound people side by side, they would look like circus clowns stuffed into the seats. People want utility in their vehicles and still be as efficient as possible. tallex Smart Car Coming to US in 2008 Launch by DaimlerChrysler http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1151818384.news ---Original Message--- From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] smart car coming to US in 2008 Sent: 02 Jul '06 06:56 They do have a 4 seater model already, it is selling in Europe for quite a while. Hakan At 08:06 02/07/2006, you wrote: Great idea but I think that they better make a four seater for the US market. Smart cars have been out for about a year in Canada and while really cool, I have a hard time imagining 2 average Americans in one ;) LOL, regards tallex Smart Car Coming to US in 2008 Launch by DaimlerChrysler http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1151818384.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___
Re: [Biofuel] was..smart car coming to US in 2008
Hallo Hakan, No offense intended, but I've been all over Europe and there are plenty of big people there. I was (don't ask) at a Mercedes Benz dealers convention and most of the men were easily over 6 feet and at least 250 lbs. Look at Hemut Kohl. He's big and heavy. I do agree that Americans are wider than Europeans; we eat ALL the time, but I've seen big Germans, Swedes and lots of big fellows in the UK. Why, he's twenty stone if he's an oz! I'm 6'1 and 200 lbs and there's plenty of room for me in my VW so they've clearly figured that they'll be selling to big folks. It's not a big car but it is cleverly designed. I do think they'll have to make the seats wider, though ;-) -Weaver Hakan Falk wrote: Tallex, The market for 250 pound people is very much smaller in Europe than in US and I think that it is not a primary target for SMART cars. Do not only look at one, try it and you will be surprised on how spacious it is for 2 people and how well it transport/park for urban dwellers. I do however agree on the problems in US, it is little space for the oversized chip and snack packs, that seems to be the essentials for US commuters. I am not a small person 186 centimeter and 96 kilo (which is too much), but I fit well in a Smart. I did however not consider the image problem. Hakan At 09:15 02/07/2006, you wrote: That's great Haken, so if they already have a four seater, it is not to much of a stretch to do a minivan version as well and still be considered a smart car? Also, I've seen the two seater and while really cool, there is no way you are going to fit 2 - 250 pound people side by side, they would look like circus clowns stuffed into the seats. People want utility in their vehicles and still be as efficient as possible. tallex Smart Car Coming to US in 2008 Launch by DaimlerChrysler http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1151818384.news ---Original Message--- From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] smart car coming to US in 2008 Sent: 02 Jul '06 06:56 They do have a 4 seater model already, it is selling in Europe for quite a while. Hakan At 08:06 02/07/2006, you wrote: Great idea but I think that they better make a four seater for the US market. Smart cars have been out for about a year in Canada and while really cool, I have a hard time imagining 2 average Americans in one ;) LOL, regards tallex Smart Car Coming to US in 2008 Launch by DaimlerChrysler http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1151818384.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] was..smart car coming to US in 2008
I want one! John Beale wrote: Insert: I googled Smart hybrid and found that they have a concept hybrid (diesel-electric, as Mike pointed out) that achieves 81 mpg (2.9 L/100km). Nice. -John On Jul 2, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Mike Weaver wrote: Hallo Hakan, No offense intended, but I've been all over Europe and there are plenty of big people there. I was (don't ask) at a Mercedes Benz dealers convention and most of the men were easily over 6 feet and at least 250 lbs. Look at Hemut Kohl. He's big and heavy. I do agree that Americans are wider than Europeans; we eat ALL the time, but I've seen big Germans, Swedes and lots of big fellows in the UK. Why, he's twenty stone if he's an oz! I'm 6'1 and 200 lbs and there's plenty of room for me in my VW so they've clearly figured that they'll be selling to big folks. It's not a big car but it is cleverly designed. I do think they'll have to make the seats wider, though ;-) -Weaver Hakan Falk wrote: Tallex, The market for 250 pound people is very much smaller in Europe than in US and I think that it is not a primary target for SMART cars. Do not only look at one, try it and you will be surprised on how spacious it is for 2 people and how well it transport/park for urban dwellers. I do however agree on the problems in US, it is little space for the oversized chip and snack packs, that seems to be the essentials for US commuters. I am not a small person 186 centimeter and 96 kilo (which is too much), but I fit well in a Smart. I did however not consider the image problem. Hakan At 09:15 02/07/2006, you wrote: That's great Haken, so if they already have a four seater, it is not to much of a stretch to do a minivan version as well and still be considered a smart car? Also, I've seen the two seater and while really cool, there is no way you are going to fit 2 - 250 pound people side by side, they would look like circus clowns stuffed into the seats. People want utility in their vehicles and still be as efficient as possible. tallex Smart Car Coming to US in 2008 Launch by DaimlerChrysler http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1151818384.news ---Original Message--- From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] smart car coming to US in 2008 Sent: 02 Jul '06 06:56 They do have a 4 seater model already, it is selling in Europe for quite a while. Hakan At 08:06 02/07/2006, you wrote: Great idea but I think that they better make a four seater for the US market. Smart cars have been out for about a year in Canada and while really cool, I have a hard time imagining 2 average Americans in one ;) LOL, regards tallex Smart Car Coming to US in 2008 Launch by DaimlerChrysler http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1151818384.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] World Scientists Unite to Attack Creationism
The Flying Spaghetti Monster will not be pleased. Prepare, infidels. Ken Riznyk wrote: Geez! and I thought creationism was just a problem here in the U.S., home of the wackos. Ken --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0622-03.htm Published on Thursday, June 22, 2006 by the Independent / UK World Scientists Unite to Attack Creationism by Sarah Cassidy The world's scientific community united yesterday to launch one of the strongest attacks yet on creationism, warning that the origins of life were being concealed, denied or confused. The national science academies of 67 countries warned parents and teachers to ensure that they did not undermine the teaching of evolution or allow children to be taught that the world was created in six days. Some schools in the US hold that evolution is merely a theory while the Bible represents the literal truth. There have also been fears that these views are creeping into British schools. The statement, which the Royal Society signed on behalf of Britain's scientists, said: We urge decision-makers, teachers and parents to educate all children about the methods and discoveries of science and foster an understanding of the science of nature. Knowledge of the natural world in which they live empowers people to meet human needs and protect the planet. Within science courses taught in certain public systems of education, scientific evidence, data, and testable theories about the origins and evolution of life on Earth are being concealed, denied, or confused with theories not testable by science. The statement followed a long-running row over claims that some of Tony Blair's flagship city academies teach creationism in science lessons. Schools in the North-east backed by one academy sponsor, Sir Peter Vardy, have been accused of promoting creationism alongside evolution. The schools have denied the claims and insisted they abide by the national curriculum. Academics in the US have voiced concern over similar theories being taught in American schools. Scientists also fear the spread of a theory known as intelligent design. This suggests that species are too complex to have evolved through natural selection and must therefore be the product of a designer. Martin Rees, president of the Royal Society, said: There is controversy in some parts of the world about the teaching of evolution to pupils and students, so this is a timely statement that makes clear the views of the scientific community. I hope this statement will help those who are attempting to uphold the rights of young people to have access to accurate scientific knowledge about the origins and evolution of life on Earth. It has been revealed that creationism is being included in the science curricula of a growing number of UK universities. Leeds University plans to incorporate one or two compulsory lectures on creationism and intelligent design into its second-year course for zoology and genetics undergraduates next Christmas, according to The Times Higher Education Supplement. At Leicester University, academics discuss creationism and intelligent design with third-year genetics undergraduates for about 20 minutes in lectures. In both cases, lecturers argue that the controversial theories will presented as fallacies irreconcilable with scientific evidence. But the fact that these alternatives to evolution have been proposed for formal discussion in lectures at all has sparked concern among British scientists. A THES investigation has also discovered there are at least 14 academics in science departments who consider themselves creationists. They believe all kinds of life were designed rather than evolved. Several others are proponents of intelligent design, which rejects evolution. © 2006 Independent News and Media Limited ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] was..was..smart car coming to US in 2008
I'd stay off the highway, heck, I'm scared to ride my Harley on the interstate... mark manchester wrote: I hate to see these things on the highway, looks like people flying along under an umbrella. Surely can speed along, this is pretty much a four-wheel hooded motorcycle. Incredibly cute, though, and comfy. Very popular here in Toronto, but there's zero trunk space. Jesse From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 10:44:51 -0400 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] was..was..smart car coming to US in 2008 I've been thinking that what I need would be a two seater with a fairly large storage space as I usually go downtown with servers and stuff. My Golf works ok with the seats down, but if the whole vehicle were designed for hauling small and medium loads a Smart Car design would be perfect. Now think of a diesel/electric hybrid... -Weaver AltEnergyNetwork wrote: Haken, I've seen the 2 seater up really close, took a look inside, watched it being parked in a miniscule spot, been behind one and in front of one in traffic, haven't driven one yet. They are really cool little cars. I think it is going to fill an important niche market for couriers, deliveries, fleets and businesses that like the fact that it sips thimbles of gasoline. Still, in order to wean Americans off of their obsession with suvs, it might be a good idea if the company made a heftier 4 seater utility that would appeal to the suv crowd and still sip at the pump. Image is everything and if the average joe thinks that they can get one of these green machines and still be able to lug around the stuff that they do AND save at the pump, great. It's the old having cake and eating it too syndrome but people respond to it, regards tallex Smart Car Coming to US in 2008 Launch by DaimlerChrysler http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1151818384.news ---Original Message--- From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] was..smart car coming to US in 2008 Sent: 02 Jul '06 08:22 Tallex, The market for 250 pound people is very much smaller in Europe than in US and I think that it is not a primary target for SMART cars. Do not only look at one, try it and you will be surprised on how spacious it is for 2 people and how well it transport/park for urban dwellers. I do however agree on the problems in US, it is little space for the oversized chip and snack packs, that seems to be the essentials for US commuters. I am not a small person 186 centimeter and 96 kilo (which is too much), but I fit well in a Smart. I did however not consider the image problem. Hakan At 09:15 02/07/2006, you wrote: That's great Haken, so if they already have a four seater, it is not to much of a stretch to do a minivan version as well and still be considered a smart car? Also, I've seen the two seater and while really cool, there is no way you are going to fit 2 - 250 pound people side by side, they would look like circus clowns stuffed into the seats. People want utility in their vehicles and still be as efficient as possible. tallex Smart Car Coming to US in 2008 Launch by DaimlerChrysler http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1151818384.news ---Original Message--- From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] smart car coming to US in 2008 Sent: 02 Jul '06 06:56 They do have a 4 seater model already, it is selling in Europe for quite a while. Hakan At 08:06 02/07/2006, you wrote: Great idea but I think that they better make a four seater for the US market. Smart cars have been out for about a year in Canada and while really cool, I have a hard time imagining 2 average Americans in one ;) LOL, regards tallex Smart Car Coming to US in 2008 Launch by DaimlerChrysler http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1151818384.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Sinkholes and oil production
Look up karst for more info on sinkhole topography... Doug Younker wrote: Allow me to comment(underscoring what Bob said) the reason water and CO2 is pumped into producing formations is to extract MORE oil from from the formation, not replace it, enhanced recovery they call it. Jeff, I suspect the Texan was telling you a tall tale and later joked with his buddies what he told to nosy person. I don't mean any disrespect, but hell, they don't pass an opportunity's to pull one on their buddies, the rest of the world doesn't stand a chance ;) There have been sinkholes attributed to oil production. Generally the cause is wash out of an area closer to the surface than the collapse of an oil formation several thousand feet down. Anyway removing CO2 from the atmosphere and pumping into a producing formation will not sequester it. As Bob mention porosity is a key feature of producing formations. Sooner or later the CO2 will migrate to a well bore and re-enter the atmosphere when the oil it associated with it is processed. As Terry mentions locking the Co2 in played out capped formations can't be totally safe. Natural Gas stored in old salt mines, years old practice, near Hutchison, KS did find a way out and cause some fires. Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Growers Reap Benefits Even in Good Years
I read that. Total ripoff. Keith Addison wrote: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/02/AR2006 070200691.html?referrer=email Growers Reap Benefits Even in Good Years Crops That Sell High Qualify for Payments By Dan Morgan, Sarah Cohen and Gilbert M. Gaul Washington Post Staff Writers Monday, July 3, 2006; A01 EDEN, Md. -- Roger L. Richardson, a vigorous 72-year-old who grows corn on 1,500 acres of prime Eastern Shore farmland, had a good year in 2005. Thanks to smart planning, shrewd investing and a little luck, he grossed a healthy $500,000 for his crop. But the federal government treated him as if he needed help and paid him $75,000. The money came from a little-known, 20-year-old U.S. Agriculture Department program that was intended to boost farmers' incomes when prices are low. The farmers do not have to sell at distressed prices to collect the money. They can bank the government payments and sell when prices are higher. Since September, the program has cost taxpayers $4.8 billion. Most of that money -- $3.8 billion -- went to farmers such as Richardson who sold at higher prices, according to a Washington Post analysis of USDA payment data. The subsidy is called the loan deficiency payment. Although it has cost taxpayers $29 billion since 1998, it is virtually unknown outside farm country. But in rural America, the LDP is a topic at backyard barbecues and local diners along with the high school football team and the weather. Despite its name, it is neither a loan nor, in many cases, payment for a deficiency. It is just cash paid to farmers when market prices dip below the government-set minimum, or floor, if only for a single day. The LDP has become so ingrained in farmland finances that farmers sometimes wish for market prices to drop so they can capture a larger subsidy. In the fall of the year, we find the farmer wanting the price to go down, John Fletcher, a Missouri grain dealer, told Congress last year. It's almost unnatural. Corn farmers collected the LDP on 90 percent of their crop last year, but most did not suffer the losses that traditional subsidies are meant to offset. Some collected hundreds of thousands of dollars. Most smart farmers are cashing in on it, said Bruce A. Babcock, director of the Center for Agricultural and Rural Development at Iowa State University. It shows me that farmers are being overcompensated. The LDP bears little resemblance to the original price-support system, created in 1938 to help millions of desperate farmers during the Depression. The government then propped up prices by buying grain and cotton whenever the market dipped below a government-set floor. But by the 1980s, the government had accumulated huge stockpiles of commodities that it could not sell abroad. With the backing of Southern rice- and cotton-state lawmakers, Congress in 1985 came up with a way to protect farmers from low prices: the LDP. The government encouraged farmers to sell their crops on the market and paid them cash when prices fell below the floor. This reduced the stockpiles and made U.S. farm products a better buy abroad. But few foresaw where the program would end up, according to Arkansas Secretary of Agriculture Richard E. Bell, who lobbied for the change as president of the state's largest rice cooperative. When corn prices fell in the late 1990s, the cash payments to farmers soared. 'Location, Location . . .' Roger Richardson's experience with his corn farm in Maryland's Worcester County illustrates one way farmers take advantage of the LDP. After harvesting his corn last summer, Richardson stored 190,000 bushels in silos that he owns with other farmers. He then waited for prices to rise. He had reason to be hopeful because the corn-dependent Delmarva poultry industry pays a premium to lock up local supplies for chicken feed. Meanwhile, in the Midwest, prices briefly dropped to their lowest level in five years after Hurricane Katrina. The storm stalled grain barges up and down the Mississippi. Huge yellow piles lay in fields outside stuffed grain elevators, and a sign outside one elevator said, Blame it on Katrina. The drop in prices brought the government's safety net -- the LDP -- into play. In DeKalb County, Ill., the subsidy had reached 46 cents a bushel one day in September. (The LDP for each county is calculated by subtracting the USDA's daily estimate of the local market price from the government's floor, which is set each year and was $1.98 a bushel in DeKalb.) Yet in one of the oddities of the system, across the country on the Eastern Shore, where corn market prices were much higher, the subsidy was about the same: 48 cents. It hovered around that level for the next two months. To book the subsidy being paid on a particular date, Richardson simply had to walk into the local USDA office in Snow Hill, Md., with the ability to prove that he owned a harvested corn
Re: [Biofuel] An Inconvenient Truth
I have wonder if the weather we are enjoying here in DC is a symptom of global warming. Keith Addison wrote: http://eatthestate.org/ Eat the State! Vol. 10, Issue #22 6 July 06 Preparing For an Inconvenient Future Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth is a commendable movie, not least for its attempts to educate, rather than terrify, people about the facts and consequences of global warming. In particular, Al Gore specifically warned against justifying inaction first by denial (the platform of most American politicians), then by despair. Instead, he concluded the movie by listing actions that individuals and societies can take to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. To see specific suggestions, visit www.climatecrisis.net and read Colin Wright's thoughtful article in the last issue of Eat the State! (What would Gandhi drive? ETS! vol. 10, no. 21 http://snipurl.com/std1). Making valiant efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions immediately is not only a good idea, but a necessity. We must not confuse this imperative, however, with a solution to the problems of global warming, for at least three reasons. First, not all of the means within our technological grasp for reducing emissions are necessarily wisely employed toward that end, even if we grant that they will have the magnitude of effect that Gore credited them with--which is far from certain. Thus, in a movie graphic showing how carbon emissions could be reduced to 1970 levels, a considerable chunk of reduction was attributed to carbon sequestration, the viability and long-term consequences of which are hotly debated. We must be careful not to make matters worse in a desperate effort to make them better. Second, even if carbon dioxide emissions were immediately reduced to 1970 levels, the long time periods required for the Earth system to respond to that decrease will result in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations that nonetheless continue to increase for decades to come. Remarkably, although Gore correctly related higher average global temperatures to higher atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations, not emissions, this response lag was not addressed in the movie. Third, various global feedback mechanisms affected by higher temperatures may result in further increases in temperature or greenhouse gas concentrations that are not a direct function of human activity. Although these are notoriously difficult to predict, possible examples include greater retention of solar heat due to changes in cloud and ice cover, or release of methane, a more potent though shorter-lived greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, from melting permafrost. In short, controlling emissions is only part of the necessary response to the problems confronting us. A second part of that response is to prepare for the predictable consequences of global warming, starting immediately. The environmental movement must incorporate such preparations into its agenda, not in place of but alongside attempts to attenuate climate change. Limiting our response only to attenuation is naive, if not palliative and fatalistic. What is it that we should be preparing for? The melting of ice sheets and glaciers is expected to result in a rise in sea level that will render uninhabitable low-lying islands and coastal regions, thus creating a refugee crisis on a scale perhaps never before seen in human history. We must begin planning for these refugees now. It is anticipated that greater average surface temperatures will fuel more violent storms, including tornadoes and hurricanes. Having seen the chaos and tragedy resulting from Katrina, as well as the ineptitude, profiteering, and racism of the American government's reaction, surely we should begin preparing a better response now. Overall changes in regional weather patterns, including in some places an increasing frequency of droughts, will dramatically affect the availability and distribution of water and agriculture. Only advance planning can mitigate the tragedies these changes imply. And of course, unless we begin preparing now, all of these anticipated effects will likely lead to major conflicts among peoples and nations. Perhaps more subtly, our preparations must embrace changing how we think. First and foremost, we must not perpetuate the myth that the problems we face can be addressed without major changes in our lifestyles and cultures. This is an error with which Gore's film flirts. But if we begin the debate by denying the necessity of major changes, we relieve the debate of both its urgency and its point. Pathos and panic are not the necessary corollaries of recognizing this fact; we must instead learn to represent the necessity and achievability of these changes. Second, global warming and its consequences cannot be countered effectively if we limit our deliberations only to short time scales, for example, those of election cycles. We must teach ourselves to think
Re: [Biofuel] was..was..smart car coming to US in 2008
It's a common misperception that SUV's are safer than smaller cars. It's not true look up number of fatalities at iihs.org or hldi.org... Terry Dyck wrote: Smart Cars are considered one of the safest cars on the road next to a Volvo. The frame is solid steel. Large SUV's are the most dangerous cars because they roll easily. Don't let size determine safety, it does not work that way. Terry Dyck From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] was..was..smart car coming to US in 2008 Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 09:01:51 -0400 I'd stay off the highway, heck, I'm scared to ride my Harley on the interstate... mark manchester wrote: I hate to see these things on the highway, looks like people flying along under an umbrella. Surely can speed along, this is pretty much a four-wheel hooded motorcycle. Incredibly cute, though, and comfy. Very popular here in Toronto, but there's zero trunk space. Jesse From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 10:44:51 -0400 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] was..was..smart car coming to US in 2008 I've been thinking that what I need would be a two seater with a fairly large storage space as I usually go downtown with servers and stuff. My Golf works ok with the seats down, but if the whole vehicle were designed for hauling small and medium loads a Smart Car design would be perfect. Now think of a diesel/electric hybrid... -Weaver AltEnergyNetwork wrote: Haken, I've seen the 2 seater up really close, took a look inside, watched it being parked in a miniscule spot, been behind one and in front of one in traffic, haven't driven one yet. They are really cool little cars. I think it is going to fill an important niche market for couriers, deliveries, fleets and businesses that like the fact that it sips thimbles of gasoline. Still, in order to wean Americans off of their obsession with suvs, it might be a good idea if the company made a heftier 4 seater utility that would appeal to the suv crowd and still sip at the pump. Image is everything and if the average joe thinks that they can get one of these green machines and still be able to lug around the stuff that they do AND save at the pump, great. It's the old having cake and eating it too syndrome but people respond to it, regards tallex Smart Car Coming to US in 2008 Launch by DaimlerChrysler http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1151818384.news ---Original Message--- From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] was..smart car coming to US in 2008 Sent: 02 Jul '06 08:22 Tallex, The market for 250 pound people is very much smaller in Europe than in US and I think that it is not a primary target for SMART cars. Do not only look at one, try it and you will be surprised on how spacious it is for 2 people and how well it transport/park for urban dwellers. I do however agree on the problems in US, it is little space for the oversized chip and snack packs, that seems to be the essentials for US commuters. I am not a small person 186 centimeter and 96 kilo (which is too much), but I fit well in a Smart. I did however not consider the image problem. Hakan At 09:15 02/07/2006, you wrote: That's great Haken, so if they already have a four seater, it is not to much of a stretch to do a minivan version as well and still be considered a smart car? Also, I've seen the two seater and while really cool, there is no way you are going to fit 2 - 250 pound people side by side, they would look like circus clowns stuffed into the seats. People want utility in their vehicles and still be as efficient as possible. tallex Smart Car Coming to US in 2008 Launch by DaimlerChrysler http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1151818384.news ---Original Message--- From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] smart car coming to US in 2008 Sent: 02 Jul '06 06:56 They do have a 4 seater model already, it is selling in Europe for quite a while. Hakan At 08:06 02/07/2006, you wrote: Great idea but I think that they better make a four seater for the US market. Smart cars have been out for about a year in Canada and while really cool, I have a hard time imagining 2 average Americans in one ;) LOL, regards tallex Smart Car Coming to US
Re: [Biofuel] was..was..smart car coming to US in 2008
As I keep telling people, all 4WD does is get youy moving. You'd be amazed at the number of people that think it allows you to drive faster in the snow due to better all weather handling. These are the same morons that put high octane gas in their Civics for more power... Zeke Yewdall wrote: Around here I've certainly seen more SUV's upsidedown in the creek in the snow than cars... Just based on how poorly most of even the new SUV's handle in the snow compared to my 20 year old subaru, I'm not really suprised. High center of gravity, high horsepower, short wheelbase, and bad front/rear weight distribution just isn't too good on icy highways. Z On 7/6/06, *Mike Weaver* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's a common misperception that SUV's are safer than smaller cars. It's not true look up number of fatalities at iihs.org http://iihs.org or hldi.org... Terry Dyck wrote: Smart Cars are considered one of the safest cars on the road next to a Volvo. The frame is solid steel. Large SUV's are the most dangerous cars because they roll easily. Don't let size determine safety, it does not work that way. Terry Dyck From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] was..was..smart car coming to US in 2008 Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 09:01:51 -0400 I'd stay off the highway, heck, I'm scared to ride my Harley on the interstate... mark manchester wrote: I hate to see these things on the highway, looks like people flying along under an umbrella. Surely can speed along, this is pretty much a four-wheel hooded motorcycle. Incredibly cute, though, and comfy. Very popular here in Toronto, but there's zero trunk space. Jesse From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 10:44:51 -0400 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] was..was..smart car coming to US in 2008 I've been thinking that what I need would be a two seater with a fairly large storage space as I usually go downtown with servers and stuff. My Golf works ok with the seats down, but if the whole vehicle were designed for hauling small and medium loads a Smart Car design would be perfect. Now think of a diesel/electric hybrid... -Weaver AltEnergyNetwork wrote: Haken, I've seen the 2 seater up really close, took a look inside, watched it being parked in a miniscule spot, been behind one and in front of one in traffic, haven't driven one yet. They are really cool little cars. I think it is going to fill an important niche market for couriers, deliveries, fleets and businesses that like the fact that it sips thimbles of gasoline. Still, in order to wean Americans off of their obsession with suvs, it might be a good idea if the company made a heftier 4 seater utility that would appeal to the suv crowd and still sip at the pump. Image is everything and if the average joe thinks that they can get one of these green machines and still be able to lug around the stuff that they do AND save at the pump, great. It's the old having cake and eating it too syndrome but people respond to it, regards tallex Smart Car Coming to US in 2008 Launch by DaimlerChrysler http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1151818384.news ---Original Message--- From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] was..smart car coming to US in 2008 Sent: 02 Jul '06 08:22 Tallex, The market for 250 pound people is very much smaller in Europe than in US and I think that it is not a primary target for SMART cars. Do not only look at one, try
Re: [Biofuel] was..was..smart car coming to US in 2008
I'll have to try that in my Hummer John Beale wrote: A couple of weeks ago, some family friends from the Midwest visited for the night on their way to visit their extended family in Maine. At one point, one of them informed me that if we all use Ethanol in our cars, we'll get at least twice the fuel economy and our cars will handle better in inclement weather conditions. Perhaps all these rolled-over SUV drivers thought that their 4WD SUV was also a flex-fuel vehicle -- and that the combination of the two made their Explorer into the Batmobile. True story. -John On Jul 6, 2006, at 8:02 PM, Mike Weaver wrote: As I keep telling people, all 4WD does is get youy moving. You'd be amazed at the number of people that think it allows you to drive faster in the snow due to better all weather handling. These are the same morons that put high octane gas in their Civics for more power... Zeke Yewdall wrote: Around here I've certainly seen more SUV's upsidedown in the creek in the snow than cars... Just based on how poorly most of even the new SUV's handle in the snow compared to my 20 year old subaru, I'm not really suprised. High center of gravity, high horsepower, short wheelbase, and bad front/rear weight distribution just isn't too good on icy highways. Z On 7/6/06, *Mike Weaver* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's a common misperception that SUV's are safer than smaller cars. It's not true look up number of fatalities at iihs.org http://iihs.org or hldi.org... Terry Dyck wrote: Smart Cars are considered one of the safest cars on the road next to a Volvo. The frame is solid steel. Large SUV's are the most dangerous cars because they roll easily. Don't let size determine safety, it does not work that way. Terry Dyck From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] was..was..smart car coming to US in 2008 Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 09:01:51 -0400 I'd stay off the highway, heck, I'm scared to ride my Harley on the interstate... mark manchester wrote: I hate to see these things on the highway, looks like people flying along under an umbrella. Surely can speed along, this is pretty much a four-wheel hooded motorcycle. Incredibly cute, though, and comfy. Very popular here in Toronto, but there's zero trunk space. Jesse From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 10:44:51 -0400 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] was..was..smart car coming to US in 2008 I've been thinking that what I need would be a two seater with a fairly large storage space as I usually go downtown with servers and stuff. My Golf works ok with the seats down, but if the whole vehicle were designed for hauling small and medium loads a Smart Car design would be perfect. Now think of a diesel/electric hybrid... -Weaver AltEnergyNetwork wrote: Haken, I've seen the 2 seater up really close, took a look inside, watched it being parked in a miniscule spot, been behind one and in front of one in traffic, haven't driven one yet. They are really cool little cars. I think it is going to fill an important niche market for couriers, deliveries, fleets and businesses that like the fact that it sips thimbles of gasoline. Still, in order to wean Americans off of their obsession with suvs, it might be a good idea if the company made a heftier 4 seater utility that would appeal to the suv crowd and still sip at the pump. Image is everything and if the average joe thinks that they can get one of these green machines and still be able to lug around the stuff that they do AND save at the pump, great. It's the old having cake and eating it too syndrome
Re: [Biofuel] was..was..smart car coming to US in 2008
and drop the compression a bit for the turbo... Kurt Nolte wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: As I keep telling people, all 4WD does is get youy moving. You'd be amazed at the number of people that think it allows you to drive faster in the snow due to better all weather handling. These are the same morons that put high octane gas in their Civics for more power... Hey, you can get more power out of a Civic if you put high octane gas in it! ... You just have to follow that with putting a turbo on it, crank the boost pressure way up, and pray you don't blow a piston out the bottom end! ;p -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] was..was..smart car coming to US in 2008
That's why I eat so much...it's a mass thing... Mike Redler wrote: Hey Joe, You wrote: There's definitely something to be said for having a lot of mass in the vehicle in an accident though. Absolutely. There is much to be said both above and below the surface. By that I mean the more visible advantages to the driver of a massive SUV (at the expense of whoever he/she smashes into) and what motivates people to buy larger and larger vehicles in the name of safety. In a culture of fear, it has the flavor of an arms race. When one makes the argument that SUV's are safer by virtue of their mass, the only way the argument has any merit is in situations when the object they hit is movable (again, alluding to a cost to the driver and passengers of the smaller vehicle). Mike Joe Street wrote: There's definitely something to be said for having a lot of mass in the vehicle in an accident though. It's not that a small vehicle can't be made strong but the acceleration felt by the occupants of a light vehicle is much worse than in a really massive one. Joe Mike Redler wrote: That's true even if you don't consider the fact that SUV's in combination with the soccer mom's who think they are safer, make everyone less safe - including those driving Smarts and Volvos. Mike Weaver wrote: It's a common misperception that SUV's are safer than smaller cars. It's not true look up number of fatalities at iihs.org or hldi.org... Terry Dyck wrote: Smart Cars are considered one of the safest cars on the road next to a Volvo. The frame is solid steel. Large SUV's are the most dangerous cars because they roll easily. Don't let size determine safety, it does not work that way. Terry Dyck From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] was..was..smart car coming to US in 2008 Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 09:01:51 -0400 I'd stay off the highway, heck, I'm scared to ride my Harley on the interstate... mark manchester wrote: I hate to see these things on the highway, looks like people flying along under an umbrella. Surely can speed along, this is pretty much a four-wheel hooded motorcycle. Incredibly cute, though, and comfy. Very popular here in Toronto, but there's zero trunk space. Jesse From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 10:44:51 -0400 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] was..was..smart car coming to US in 2008 I've been thinking that what I need would be a two seater with a fairly large storage space as I usually go downtown with servers and stuff. My Golf works ok with the seats down, but if the whole vehicle were designed for hauling small and medium loads a Smart Car design would be perfect. Now think of a diesel/electric hybrid... -Weaver AltEnergyNetwork wrote: Haken, I've seen the 2 seater up really close, took a look inside, watched it being parked in a miniscule spot, been behind one and in front of one in traffic, haven't driven one yet. They are really cool little cars. I think it is going to fill an important niche market for couriers, deliveries, fleets and businesses that like the fact that it sips thimbles of gasoline. Still, in order to wean Americans off of their obsession with suvs, it might be a good idea if the company made a heftier 4 seater utility that would appeal to the suv crowd and still sip at the pump. Image is everything and if the average joe thinks that they can get one of these green machines and still be able to lug around the stuff that they do AND save at the pump, great. It's the old having cake and eating it too syndrome but people respond to it, regards tallex
Re: [Biofuel] Pimento rears his ugly head again. :-(
Isn't Pimento what goes in a olive? AS a Martini drinker, I don't see a problem - now, if it is Pimenthal... Alan Petrillo wrote: http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/38540/ AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pimento rears his ugly head again. :-(
They come in the US in large pieces in jars. Try Sainsbury's... Bob Carr wrote: Does anyone know if pimentos can be bought in the UK? I have been looking for them for over a year now Cheers Bob - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pimento rears his ugly head again. :-( Isn't Pimento what goes in a olive? AS a Martini drinker, I don't see a problem - now, if it is Pimenthal... Alan Petrillo wrote: http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/38540/ AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pimento rears his ugly head again. :-(
Pimpernel? Mike Redler wrote: Pimentel gets around. I heard an interview with him from a surprising source, WBAI in NYC. He was given lots of time to tell his audience everything he believes (or is paid to believe) and the interviewer, not knowing the credibility of the source, had no challenging questions. Here is an email I sent to the radio station in response to the interview (posted earlier on the biofuels group): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg62060.html - Redler P.S. I thought his name was spelled Pimpin'-oil Mike Weaver wrote: Isn't Pimento what goes in a olive? AS a Martini drinker, I don't see a problem - now, if it is Pimenthal... Alan Petrillo wrote: http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/38540/ AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok. I have a friend who's 6'3 and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW. I don't fit into Miatas, tho'. Kurt Nolte wrote: Dylan wrote: Another advantage to this agenda is that americans would be able to drive more fuel efficient cars. Let's face it, the size of cars in the united states has increased with the size of people. Many americans can't fit into the more fuel efficient cars that are popular in other nations. So the savings would be double edged: lighter people and smaller more fuel efficient cars. Voila! (that's not even mentioning the money saved on healthcare for diseases related to obesity) My contention with this is that I have this problem, and it's not obesity that causes it. I cannot fit into a new Golf, an Insight, or anything of similar size, and it's certainly not because the seat's not wide enough (Usually I have plenty room to spare, actually). It's my legs. They're far too long to fit into most of these ultracompact or even compact cars, which are the highest efficiency ones. I usually end up with my knees where they hinder my ability to turn the steering wheel, which is uncomfortable to say the least and dangerous to say more. I'm not alone in this, either; half of my coworkers are of a similar height and run into similar problems. (We're all at least two inches over six feet tall, and mostly leg to a man). Thus, actually, legroom was a huge factor when I went looking for a replacement car. The car I drive now gets terrible mileage by most elite standards (A mere 28mpg combined), but it is after all only a year younger than I (it's twenty) and weighs in at 3000 pounds. It's also a station wagon, and it's long wheelbase gives me plenty of legroom for comfort and safety. So beware, please, sweeping statements like that; they aren't always true. -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Different strokes for different folks I guess. I have a friend who is 6'6 and 300 lbs...he is struck in a Lincoln towncar... Kurt Nolte wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok. I have a friend who's 6'3 and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW. I don't fit into Miatas, tho'. I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother's car when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody was hurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits? -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
for whatever reason my Golf seems to get the best mileage at 59 mph. Jonathan Hardin wrote: I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan On 7/10/06, *Kurt Nolte* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok. I have a friend who's 6'3 and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW. I don't fit into Miatas, tho'. I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother's car when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody was hurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits? -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Jonathan Hardin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
I've done extensive tests, involving titration, iteration, recursions, incursions and regression to the mean. I've calculated the modulus and the regulus, not to mention the pendulus and I always come back to the same thing: I don't really know what I'm talking about. Actually, what I probably should have said was: On long road trips I've noticed the mileage really starts to drop after the engine rpm's go past about 1850. At about 1850 rpm, the car is going around 58-59 mph, and gets around 58-59 mph on very flat land w/ cruise control. The mileage goes down to the high 40's if I follow traffic speed- 70 - 75 mph. I expect it would do better at 55. There is some guy claiming 1440 miles for one tank of gas in a TDI Golf. My best is only around 850 or so, all highway. -Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some 30 or so years ago I read from several source that the best mileage was obtained from North American cars around 35-40 mph. I understand the the cars in the transcontinental mileage contests that used to be held were specially modified with gear rations and transmissions to accelerate from about 5 mph to about 15 mph, switch off, coast down to 5 mph and start and accelerate again. That way they got the drag advantage of low speed plus the engine efficiency advantage of operating at high manifold pressure during acceleration (but not too high manifold pressure, avoiding rich mixture). Continuous opertion at a steady speed at high manifold pressure and low speed would involve such extreme overdrive (except maybe with a continuously variable transmission) that it would be very hard to accelererate or handle even gentle hills, and the car would be very hard to drive. Car drag is a mixture of rolling resistance (power consumption varies directly as the square of the speed) and air drag (power consumption varies directly as the cube of the speed). I am *really* suprised that someone would get best mileage at 59 mph and I suspect something odd going on. It seems to me that the drag would be just too high regardless of how the gearing was optimized. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Mon, 10 Jul 2006, Mike Weaver wrote: for whatever reason my Golf seems to get the best mileage at 59 mph. Jonathan Hardin wrote: I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
there are diesel motorcycles around... Dylan wrote: What about motorcycles? Is there any alternative fuel for motorcycles? I know they get great gas mileage (i get 40-60 mpg depending on how i'm riding and if i'm mostly on freeway or city streets), but i would rather be independent from fossil fuels. Unfortunately, due to the nature of my job, i am required to have a vehicle (a bicycle would be an easy alternative otherwise). dylan -- a href=http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86 http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86img border=0 alt=Get Firefox! title=Get Firefox! src= http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/125x50/takebacktheweb_125x50.png//a a href=http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181 http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181img border=0 alt=Get Thunderbird! title=Get Thunderbird! src=http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/thunderbird/thunderbird_small.png//a ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Most engine timing and even transmission timing (shift point) is now handled by computer. Some cars have sport mode and so on. Michael Redler wrote: Hi Jonathan, From what I can tell, there are few logical reasons for a 55mph speed limit. From a mileage point of view, the ratings on cars reported by the manufacturer are from tests performed at 49mph in order to legally mislead the public and make the numbers look more favorable. That would imply that, from a mileage point of view, 55 conserves fuel but is really just another shade of gray. Please don't misunderstand. I try to keep my Civic near 55 when I can, and I'm not necessarily against it but, I don't see the season for that particular number. As for safety, slower speeds don't necessarily save lives. The German Autobahn has no speed limit in most places but, has a fatality rate approximately 12% less than that of the US. I believe the statistic I read was per mile of highway. I apologize for not having my sources readily available. As far as transmission and engine timing is concerned, I think it depends on the manufacturer and the country of origin. For example BMW's are required to legitimately deliver on whatever the speedometer says they can. Mike */Jonathan Hardin [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan On 7/10/06, *Kurt Nolte* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok. I have a friend who's 6'3 and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW. I don't fit into Miatas, tho'. I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother's car when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody was hurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits? -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
I've been looking at taller tires. The car really needs a six speed, but tires will have to do. As soon as I smoke this clutch I'm bolting in a VR6 clutch and a six speed, but until then, it's tires. I guess I could just email Tirerack and ask them for the diameter? -Mike lres1 wrote: To a certain degree the engine revolutions pay a part in the economy of an average speed trial. At 55 if the engine is not under load but running at say 4,000 RPM it is not as efficient as the same vehicle and engine set up to run at 2,000 RPM. The Box Landrovers SI, SII SIIA and SIII with the 4 cylinder petrol engine were often run with the timing firing after TDC. This made them able to deliver real low down torque and thus operate well in 4 WD sandy or muddy conditions. However the cruising speed was easy at about 45, any higher and the engine was drinking fuel like it was gasping. Hence a lot of such landrovers were fitted with Overdrive units to reduce the cruising RPM and increase the cruising speed to 60. Was asked how to get better top speed from a VW on the highway and what was the cheapest way to do this. Fit larger diameter tyres within reason. Same for City driving smaller tyres. This changes the gear ratios and is cheap and easy to return to original or either side of standard. You will need to understand that the larger the tyre the higher the vehicle the less drag to the ground and thus the more instability. The lower the car the better the stability and adherence to the suction effect to the ground. Perhaps this is why in the last ten years 15 inch rims have become the norm and not so the older 14inch rims in many vehicles. Subaru run 15 inch in small cars, other go as high as 17 inch rims. True this gives low profile tyres but also increases the cruising speed a tad. Have never seen the statistics of a table of the air pressure in tyres at a set 60 MPH. At a set cruising speed what are the differences of starting at say 10PSI in the tyres and going in 5PSI steps up to 80 PSI. Have never seen a table that gives the optimum type pressure for speed in a standard every day driver such as VW or such. Is such a tabulation available some place? Tyres eat fuel and thus the pressure must be right to reduce this to a minimum but no manufacture mentions what pressure for economy, only safety or recommended pressures. The flex in the walls of a radial ply eat energy fast, is a heavier 8 ply wall better than a 2 ply wall for economy? Have not seen any where a formula for height to ground ratios that reduce drag? That is the optimum height if a car from the ground to have the least ground adherence and thus drag and friction as the wind is drawn over the car. Doug - Original Message - *From:* Jonathan Hardin mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:06 AM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan On 7/10/06, *Kurt Nolte* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok. I have a friend who's 6'3 and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW. I don't fit into Miatas, tho'. I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother's car when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody was hurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits? -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
There was a story about someone in Boston installing PV panels on his 1st generation Prius and using the juice to charge the battery. Be kind of cool to get a wrecked Prius and fiddle with the drive train. bob allen wrote: howdy Mike, here is a 110 mpg Prius http://www.autoblog.com/2005/08/09/team-achieves-over-100-mpg-in-toyota-prius/ my prius gets about 53 mpg ave during mild weather and drops to the high 40s in really cold weather- a month or two a year. Driving is a mix of highway and city. Highway speed is between 55 and 60. Mike Weaver wrote: I've done extensive tests, involving titration, iteration, recursions, incursions and regression to the mean. I've calculated the modulus and the regulus, not to mention the pendulus and I always come back to the same thing: I don't really know what I'm talking about. Actually, what I probably should have said was: On long road trips I've noticed the mileage really starts to drop after the engine rpm's go past about 1850. At about 1850 rpm, the car is going around 58-59 mph, and gets around 58-59 mph on very flat land w/ cruise control. The mileage goes down to the high 40's if I follow traffic speed- 70 - 75 mph. I expect it would do better at 55. There is some guy claiming 1440 miles for one tank of gas in a TDI Golf. My best is only around 850 or so, all highway. -Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some 30 or so years ago I read from several source that the best mileage was obtained from North American cars around 35-40 mph. I understand the the cars in the transcontinental mileage contests that used to be held were specially modified with gear rations and transmissions to accelerate from about 5 mph to about 15 mph, switch off, coast down to 5 mph and start and accelerate again. That way they got the drag advantage of low speed plus the engine efficiency advantage of operating at high manifold pressure during acceleration (but not too high manifold pressure, avoiding rich mixture). Continuous opertion at a steady speed at high manifold pressure and low speed would involve such extreme overdrive (except maybe with a continuously variable transmission) that it would be very hard to accelererate or handle even gentle hills, and the car would be very hard to drive. Car drag is a mixture of rolling resistance (power consumption varies directly as the square of the speed) and air drag (power consumption varies directly as the cube of the speed). I am *really* suprised that someone would get best mileage at 59 mph and I suspect something odd going on. It seems to me that the drag would be just too high regardless of how the gearing was optimized. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Mon, 10 Jul 2006, Mike Weaver wrote: for whatever reason my Golf seems to get the best mileage at 59 mph. Jonathan Hardin wrote: I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What is happening?
Pimental is right. Washing is useless, and if you do, might as well mist. Titration is for weenies. SUV's rule. You have to filter everthing. Even the lye. I use DSE amd love it. Happy now ;-)? Joe Street wrote: It's summer( in the northern hemisphere) and we all know how to make biofuel so we are all out enjoying it? Hey should we start an argument? ;) Joe Hakan Falk wrote: I never, I never saw so little activities on the list before. Missing it. Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
That's better, gold, anyone? Hakan Falk wrote: Kirk, Kotlikoff is not the first and will not be the last to point out the alarming discrepancies and the Americans are still hiding their heads in the sand. When we last discussed this, many suggested that Iraq and confiscating the second largest oil reserves, would be something of a help. Many of us suggested that it would not work that way, on the contrary, US is doing something it cannot afford. This becomes clearer for every day that passes. Some US corporations get a lot, but the average Americans are paying. Now it rather makes US morally bankrupt as well as financially. Hakan At 01:04 15/07/2006, you wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xmlhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml US 'could be going bankrupt' By Edmund Conway, Economics Editor (Filed: 14/07/2006) The United States is heading for bankruptcy, according to an extraordinary paper published by one of the key members of the country's central bank. A ballooning budget deficit and a pensions and welfare timebomb could send! the economic superpower into insolvency, according to research by Professor Laurence Kotlikoff for the Federal Reserve Bank of St Louis, a leading constituent of the US Federal Reserve. Prof Kotlikoff said that, by some measures, the US is already bankrupt. To paraphrase the Oxford English Dictionary, is the United States at the end of its resources, exhausted, stripped bare, destitute, bereft, wanting in property, or wrecked in consequence of failure to pay its creditors, he asked. According to his central analysis, the US government is, indeed, bankrupt, insofar as it will be unable to pay its creditors, who, in this context, are current and future generations to whom it has explicitly or implicitly promised future net payments of various kinds''. The budget deficit in the US is not massive. The Bush administration this week cut its forecasts for the fiscal shortfall this year by almost a third, saying it will come in at 2.3pc of gross domestic product. This is smaller than most European countries - including the UK - which have deficits north of 3pc of GDP. Prof Kotlikoff, who teaches at Boston University, says: The proper way to consider a country's solvency is to examine the lifetime fiscal burdens facing current and future generations. If these burdens exceed the resources of those generations, get close to doing so, or simply get so high as to preclude their full collection, the country's policy will be unsustainable and can constitute or lead to national bankruptcy. Does the United States fit this bill? No one knows for sure, but there are strong reasons to believe the United States may be going broke. Experts have calculated that the country's long-term fiscal gap between all future government spending and all future receipts will widen immensely as the Baby Boomer generation retires, and as the amount the state will have to spend on healthcare and pensions soars. The total fiscal gap could be an almost incomprehensible $65.9 trillion, according to a study by Professors Gokhale and Smetters. The figure is massive because President George W Bush has made major tax cuts in recent years, and because the bill for Medicare, which provides health insurance for the elderly, and Medicaid, which does likewise for the poor, will increase greatly due to demographics. Prof Kotlikoff said: This figure is more than five times US GDP and almost twice the size of national wealth. One way to wrap one's head around $65.9trillion is to ask what fiscal adjustments are needed to eliminate this red hole. The answers are terrifying. One solution is an immediate and permanent doubling of personal and corporate income taxes. Another is an immediate and permanent two-thirds cut in Social Security and Medicare benefits. A third alternative, were it feasible, would be to immediately and permanently cut all federal discretionary spending by 143pc. The scenario has serious implications for the dollar. If investors lose confidence in the US's future, and suspect the country may at some point allow inflation to erode away its debts, they may reduce their holdings of US Treasury bonds. Prof Kotlikoff said: The United States has experienced high rates of inflation in the past and appears to be running the same type of fiscal policies that engendered hyperinflations in 20 countries over the past century. Paul Ashworth, of Capital Economics, was more sanguine about the coming retirement of the Baby Boomer generation. For a start, the expected deterioration in the Federal budget owes more to rising per capita spending on health care than to changing demographics, he said. This can be contained if the political will is there. Similarly, the expected increase in social security spending can be controlled by reducing the growth rate of benefits.
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Um, it's not really they it's us too...
Jason Katie wrote:
good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and then
piddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or
3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
*From:* Kirk McLoren mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2006 6:04 PM
*Subject:* [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going
bankrupt
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml
US 'could be going bankrupt'
By Edmund Conway, Economics Editor
(Filed: 14/07/2006)
The United States is heading for bankruptcy, according to an
extraordinary paper published by one of the key members of the
country's central bank.
A ballooning budget deficit and a pensions and welfare timebomb
could send! the economic superpower into insolvency, according to
research by Professor Laurence Kotlikoff for the Federal Reserve
Bank of St Louis, a leading constituent of the US Federal Reserve.
Prof Kotlikoff said that, by some measures, the US is already
bankrupt. To paraphrase the Oxford English Dictionary, is the
United States at the end of its resources, exhausted, stripped
bare, destitute, bereft, wanting in property, or wrecked in
consequence of failure to pay its creditors, he asked.
According to his central analysis, the US government is, indeed,
bankrupt, insofar as it will be unable to pay its creditors, who,
in this context, are current and future generations to whom it has
explicitly or implicitly promised future net payments of various
kinds''.
The budget deficit in the US is not massive. The Bush
administration this week cut its forecasts for the fiscal
shortfall this year by almost a third, saying it will come in at
2.3pc of gross domestic product. This is smaller than most
European countries - including the UK - which have deficits north
of 3pc of GDP.
Prof Kotlikoff, who teaches at Boston University, says: The
proper way to consider a country's solvency is to examine the
lifetime fiscal burdens facing current and future generations. If
these burdens exceed the resources of those generations, get close
to doing so, or simply get so high as to preclude their full
collection, the country's policy will be unsustainable and can
constitute or lead to national bankruptcy.
Does the United States fit this bill? No one knows for sure, but
there are strong reasons to believe the United States may be going
broke.
Experts have calculated that the country's long-term fiscal gap
between all future government spending and all future receipts
will widen immensely as the Baby Boomer generation retires, and as
the amount the state will have to spend on healthcare and pensions
soars. The total fiscal gap could be an almost incomprehensible
$65.9 trillion, according to a study by Professors Gokhale and
Smetters.
The figure is massive because President George W Bush has made
major tax cuts in recent years, and because the bill for Medicare,
which provides health insurance for the elderly, and Medicaid,
which does likewise for the poor, will increase greatly due to
demographics.
Prof Kotlikoff said: This figure is more than five times US GDP
and almost twice the size of national wealth. One way to wrap
one's head around $65.9trillion is to ask what fiscal adjustments
are needed to eliminate this red hole. The answers are terrifying.
One solution is an immediate and permanent doubling of personal
and corporate income taxes. Another is an immediate and permanent
two-thirds cut in Social Security and Medicare benefits. A third
alternative, were it feasible, would be to immediately and
permanently cut all federal discretionary spending by 143pc.
The scenario has serious implications for the dollar. If investors
lose confidence in the US's future, and suspect the country may at
some point allow inflation to erode away its debts, they may
reduce their holdings of US Treasury bonds.
Prof Kotlikoff said: The United States has experienced high rates
of inflation in the past and appears to be running the same type
of fiscal policies that engendered hyperinflations in 20 countries
over the past century.
Paul Ashworth, of Capital Economics, was more sanguine about the
coming retirement of the Baby Boomer generation. For a start, the
expected deterioration in the Federal budget owes more to rising
per capita spending on health care than to changing demographics,
he said.
This can be
Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?
You need to talk to Zeke. For those prices, you could fly him out, have him build you a system and fly back and it would be STILL half as much! Ken Provost wrote: Just got the quote from PGE for the hookup to a power line 700 ft away -- $17000 USD ! Granted, a good standalone system would be at least twice that, given my love of power tools and radiant floor heat :-) Still it's offensive to just cave in to them, and it's almost like they priced the connection at the maximum that would still be (barely) advantageous to accept. I'm tempted to stay offgrid just for 700 feet -- any thoughts would be welcome. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Jason!
I'm not fat.
-Weaver
Jason Katie wrote:
the truest and best answer to any TEOTWAWKI situation in america is to start
farms that grow fruits, wildgrasses, vegetables, oil crops, sugar crops,
meat animals, and trees...oh wait WE CANT, that takes work and most fat lazy
americans wont want to be inconvenienced by some dirty work. (this is
assuming america sticks its nose ito something that gets us our neck
snapped, and considering our track record of late i wouldnt be surprised.)
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: doug swanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 7:14 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Home energy system ...was Re: {Disarmed} Telegraph - US
could be going bankrupt
I agree that in tight times, basic or even primitive skills are more
valuable than gold. Basics in Agriculture, animal husbandry, health
maintenance, knowing how to preserve food without supplies you'd have to
get at a grocer's store, blacksmithing, wood working, etc. are all
skills that should be present in what I see as being a new birth of
communities which will establish themselves once TEOTWAWKI happens.
Energy systems can be a large part of this, since my wood heater
currently relies on a chainsaw to supply fuel, and my biodiesel relies
on restaurant wastes and petro-derived methanol, and industry produced
hydroxides, I still don't feel that my current situation is
sustainable. Solar makes a lot of sense in my location, and I've been
working in that direction, but with a twist. The 10' parabolic
collector can collect a lot of heat, and rather than convert it
immediately to electricity, which I'd then have to store in some sort of
battery (with all the problems that batteries come with, ie. disposal
when they don't work anymore, and then having to acquire new ones..., )
it makes better sense to store the heat from the collector in 55 gallon
drums of water, which can actually make up the rear greenhouse wall...
I've been studying Stirling engines for some time now, guess I've read
everything that Google can show me about them, crammed all the ideas
into my head, noted the major disadvantages of most of them, (They've
got to be airtight, precision power piston, most aren't self-starting,
etc...) and have come up with a design that addresses these problems,
and eliminates them by integrating much of the engine into 3 moving
parts. Heat goes in, electricity comes out. I really would like to
build the prototype, but can't afford a machine shop to make a couple of
its parts. Maybe someone on this list has the right tools to make the
parts, and would like to see more detailed plans on this. Eventually,
when a working prototype is producing electricity, the plans with step
by step guidance will be under the open information license The point
of the whole system is that wherever possible, the parts should be stuff
that can be found at the junkyard, and that when completed, a home power
generation system is running for under 3-400 bucks. Adding another
collector just for home heat would be even simpler, under floor heat
circulation would increase the cost due to plumbing, thermostat control,
etc., but if the hot water was just circulated through a radiator
(junkyard again) with a fan behind it, the home could be comfortable
without huge expense.
The efficiency of a Stirling engine makes it a potential candidate for a
hybrid vehicle, and I've been working on something along that line also,
but first things first...
Any ideas are welcome, anything I can do to help pull us out of the mess
this planet is in, I will do.
doug swanson
Jason Katie wrote:
you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel,
i
can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house,
furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty
well
safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life
(CEO's
and politicians) that are screwed.
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Um, it's not really they it's us too...
Jason Katie wrote:
good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and then
piddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or
3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
*From:* Kirk McLoren mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2006 6:04 PM
*Subject:* [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going
bankrupt
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml
US
[Biofuel] The South is Different
Democrat also means annoying pointy-headed Northen Liberal Down South. You'd be surprised at how freely the N word flies around, even in polite, well-educated company. Me, I made a decision not to use it. Jason Katie wrote: just exactly what is black, white? negro, african american, that damn N-word, pastey, cracker, honkey... its all a waste, so why do people think in these terms? its demented. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming JJJN, I fully agree, but then I know some folks that will vote Republican to save the Guns - and they hate everything else about Republicans. Democrats aren't going to take anyone's guns away. Well, save for automatics, sawed-off shotguns and perhaps assault rifles. Any NRA-er who thinks otherwise isn't smart enough to be in possession of a gun permit, much less be allowed with 20 parsecs of a firearm. By the by..., you do know that in the deep south, veiled polite-speak (code) for Negro/African-American/Black is Democrat, don't you? When many speak of Democrats in a snotty nosed manner it's almost always got a racial teint to it. In some respects, even if they're looking a white person straight in the face and blaming the Democrats, they've actually got a lit fuse behind the mental curtain that's blaming blacks. All a bit sad. Some kind of inside, twisted, cliquish joke. You'd think adults would grow out of it. I guess not. I'm not sure I follow here, Would this be like the media driven advertisement sector financed by the corporate greed sector pushing people into the waste lifestyle? Or did I miss this one? More like the PR offices in the corporate greed sector manipulating and creating wants/needs where none previously existed. Media is just the delivery mechanism. Todd Swearingen JJJN wrote: Todd, Points all well taken, see below. Appal Energy wrote: I would tend to believe that if you're expressing your belief / faith on paper, you should be the one to polish the words. Well actually I am expressing a view point on Global Warming that targets a specific audience. The list has already given me several angles that I can explore and incorporate, such as yours. By myself only, you can see the example of the narrow perspective that I thought of beginning this thread. As for context, it's beyond me how those who are spiritually/religiously inclined fail to be the first on the environmental bandwagon. I fully agree, but then I know some folks that will vote Republican to save the Guns - and they hate everything else about Republicans. They only care about a single issue, while Bush sells of public lands where they would use the guns to hunt. STRANGE but true A) Seems a trifle arrogant and presumptuous to destroy what was given to us by a creator (presuming that's a person's belief system). B) There's a difference between having dominion and destroying / desecrating. Something tells me that if there is a God, he or she is capable of knowing the difference and basing judgment on those who exercise indiscretion. C) For those who believe in the sanctity of life, there is an incumbent mindset that must include all life, not just that or those within our personal sphere of influence, nationality, creed or belief system. This includes future generations - those who are yet to exist - whose lives are being maimed, mangled or outright prevented by contemporary decision making, inclusive of consumer choices and favorite programming mechanisms. (Why do you think they call it programming?) I'm not sure I follow here, Would this be like the media driven advertisement sector financed by the corporate greed sector pushing people into the waste lifestyle? Or did I miss this one? D) For those who believe in the principles spoken of by their preferred deity, which is the greater evil? To end a life at gunpoint or other immediate fashion in the pursuit of self-interest or to end a life or multiple lives by poisoning the waters, air or land beneath our feet in the pursuit of self-interest? It really is the big picture we so often miss, good point. But what the heck. What's a little autism, ashma, Minimata disease and leukemia amongst friends as long as we can fool ourselves into believing that we are civilized? Todd Swearingen Thanks Todd, all good points and well taken. Jim Michael wrote: Some comments added between *** and Very Respectfully, Michael @ Http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 3:56 PM Subject: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand
Re: [Biofuel] Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released
I feel sorry for the guy and his family but using a torch around methanol? Back in my wrenching days my boss made sure we knew an empty gas tank was more danergous than a full one, and god forbid you did any welding the gas tank had to be filled with water first. Appal Energy wrote: A bad day at Black Rock... http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-jul1406-explosion_cause.113ae8b1.html Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released 02:30 PM MDT on Friday, July 14, 2006 KTVB.COM PAYETTE -- Investigators say they now know what caused an explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last week that killed a Meridian man. One man died at a fire and explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last Friday. The Payette County Sheriff's Office released its findings today into the explosion and subsequent fire at the plant that left 25-year-old Blaise Black dead. The cause of the fire was determined to be an explosion of a 25,000 gallon steel holding tank that Blaise was working on. The tank contain about 30 to 40 gallons of glycerin and methanol liquid mix. Both products are flammable and give off flammable vapors. Investigators say at the time of the explosion Blaise was working on the top of the tank attempting to install a two-inch steel pipe with a 90-degree elbow on the end to function as a vent on the top of the tank. During the installation of the vent tube a steel two-inch cap was removed from the side of the tank where the vent was to be installed. This allowed the vapors to escape from the tank. When Blaise lit his cutting torch it ignited the vapors, which triggered the fire and explosion. The Payette County coroner says Blaise it appears Blaise died from blunt force trauma as a result of the explosion. The explosion would have thrown him violently upward against the ceiling and a large beam that was above him. As a result of the explosion, the ceiling and beam came down and trapped him on the top of the tank. The force of the impact would have killed him immediately. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Trash Talk
Or look up gasification and gasifiers... D. Mindock wrote: Trash Talk at: http://www.the-rude-awakening.com/RAissues/2006/march/RA071806.html By Justice Litle Remember the classic '80s movie Back to the Future, in which Marty McFly (Michael J. Fox) traveled to 1955 in a time machine built by Doc Brown (Christopher Lloyd)? The initial version of the time machine, a souped-up DeLorean, was fueled by plutonium. At the end of the movie, Doc Brown returns from the future with a new-and-improved version that runs on garbage. Getting a nuclear reaction from coffee grinds and banana peels seems a bit of a stretch. In fact, turning the contents of your garbage can into any form of clean energy sounds like a pipe dream. But Covanta Holdings Corp. (NYSE: CVA) does just that. It turns garbage into electricity, in a process known as waste-to-energy. So how does the waste-to-energy process work? In a nutshell, safety-inspected garbage is fed into a feeder chute by an overhead crane. The feeder chute delivers the garbage into a giant furnace, where it is forced onto a downward-sloping grate. A churning action is created by the moving bars of the grate, mixing burning garbage with incoming garbage to help it ignite. This furnace runs hot - roughly 1,800-2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. The walls of the furnace are lined with steel tubes; heat from the combustion process turns water in these tubes to steam. The steam then drives a turbine generator, which produces electricity. After the garbage is burned, ash and gas are left over. The gas is filtered through a baghouse, a system of hundreds of fabric filter bags that captures more than 99% of all particulates. The gas is also run through a high-tech pollution control system, and potentially acidic gases are neutralized by a lime slurry sprayed into the exhaust. The physical ash is then taken to a contamination- proof landfill, if not first processed for extraction of recoverable scrap metal. The Environmental Protection Agency has declared that the waste-to energy process has less environmental impact than almost any other source of electricity. A combination of strict regulations and mature technology have made waste- to-energy plants both green and efficient. The United States turns roughly 12-15% of its solid waste into electricity each year - that's more than 100,000 tons per day - and generates enough energy to serve 2.8 million homes. So if the process works so well, why do we burn just a fraction of our trash? Why not all of it, or at least most of it? It comes down to economics. Waste-to-energy makes more sense in some geographic locations than others. Dollar for dollar, coal, hydropower and nuclear power are still cheaper ways to generate electricity. But waste-to-energy has other advantages, like the reduction of landfill usage. In densely populated areas of the United States, such as the Northeast, lack of landfill space is becoming a real problem. Existing landfills are getting full, and negotiations for new landfill space are typically squashed by NIMBY politics (not in my back yard). There is plenty of open space elsewhere in the country, but it doesn't make economic sense to transport garbage any great distance. There is just too much of it. Burning the garbage, on the other hand, goes a long way toward solving the landfill problem. The ash left over from the waste-to- energy process takes up just 10% of the space that unburned refuse requires. The practical considerations of large cities and dense population distributions thus make waste- to-energy a winning solution. The waste-to-energy process is also a winner in the global warming department. Conventional landfills emit methane, a smelly greenhouse gas, while burned ash does not. On top of that, not only do waste-to-energy facilities produce zero net greenhouse gas emissions, they help cut down on fuel usage and truck emissions by reducing long-distance waste transportation. As the cost of fossil fuels rises and global warming concerns escalate, these advantages will only become more pronounced. Environmental skeptics fear that waste-to-energy harms recycling efforts, but this fear is largely unfounded. Waste-to-energy plants have an economic incentive to presort the garbage they burn and set aside the recyclable materials. Certain types of waste make good sense to salvage and recycle, while the rest is best viewed as an energy source. According to www.wte.org, Waste-to-energy annually removes for recycling more than 700,000 tons of ferrous metals and more than 3 million tons of glass, metal, plastics, batteries, ash and yard waste at recycling centers located on site. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] Pump choice
Yes. Yes. Jason Katie wrote: i have a pump question on a side note. will a window washer fluid pump from a car work in my little test reactor, or will it dissolve as well? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Pump choice Hi All Thanks to all who have advised me this last few months, I am now a biofueller! 105l batches, good product. Unfortunately, after 10 good batches, my pump has started spraying out of the back of the impeller housing. So I took it apart and the impeller has broken up and the housing has been eaten through at the back, around the mechanical seal. It was 30 years old or so, free and a plastic spa pump, so I'm not too distressed, but I obviously don't want it happening again. I notice that the clearwater pump used by JtF is made of cast iron, so should my next pump be made of metal? Also, is the impeller in the clearwater pump plastic? As I know you can get some with stainless steel blades, I wonder my impeller break-up was due to age or chemicals. Thanks Charles List -- -- This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone. www.schoolzone.net.nz This email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone, but is not guaranteed to be virus-free. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/391 - Release Date: 7/18/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Smacking the hornet's nest
I can't say I am always a fan of the Israeli government right or wrong, and let's be honest, they've made some mistakes (but then look at the US gov't), but they are in an impossible spot. Do they need some nudging to do they right thing? Yes, but we all do. Let's stop and think, Why are they where they are? - Because NO Western country would take then. Roosevelt turned away of boatload of Jewish refugees. They really didn't have a lot of options. In Poland, TWO YEARS after WWII ended, there was a massacre of Jews. I can understand why one might gamble on a boat trip to (then) British Palestine rather than go home to Europe. Personally, I think the whole idea was ill-conceived, and US should have settled the refugees in the largely unocupied American West. Heck, a state even. Besides, I think if you wait long enough, Fritz, you'll see the same behavior here anyway. We're already denying blacks the right to vote in some states, and it's pretty much illegal to be black in a white area after dark already. Step one is to confiscate the land owned by African-Americans, [or Native Americans] evict them from it and use the land to build massive new subdivisions. Only white Protestant Christians may live in these subdivisions. - Check, doing that here. I notice you're in Canada - do you live in a house? Where did the land come from? A friendly Algonkin http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/algonquian/algonhist1.htm give it to you? I notice the Canadia Government has been having a little trouble with its First Nation denizens - a few Mohawk lawsuits here and there. Don't judge, so that you won't be judged. http://bible.cc/matthew/7-2.htmFor with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you. ^3 http://bible.cc/matthew/7-3.htm Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but don't consider the beam that is in your own eye? Or, let he who is free from sin cast the first stone. -Mike Fritz Friesinger wrote: Bob, i bett you havent wread the report of www.btselem.org http://www.btselem.org you would not talk such rhubbish! Fritz - Original Message - *From:* Bob Molloy mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:52 PM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs Yo Fritz, Yeah, right on Fritz. And just to prove it your ethnic forebears killed off six million of these bloody Jews only to have the rest of us dumb westerners stop them just before they'd finished the job. Now it's up to the poor Palestinians with only suicide bombers and Katushya rockets to carry on where the rest of us left off. We need to force the Israelis to open these roads, tear down their walls and move back onto their own territory so that the bombers in civilian clothing have a fighting chance to get closer to Israeli settlements. At least let's have a level playing field here. After it's all over and the Palestinians have finally established their Muslim state we can allow a few Israeli refugees into western countries just as long as they toe the line and run the garbage collection systems for us. Good one, Fritz, Bob. - Original Message - *From:* Fritz Friesinger mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:33 AM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs Forewardet by Fritz -- Check Your Beliefs By Charley Reese 03/17/06 -- -- Let's play a fantasy game to check on our belief in human rights. Let's suppose that in a mythical state, a governor announced a campaign to punish African-Americans for alleged violence. Step one is to confiscate the land owned by African-Americans, evict them from it and use the land to build massive new subdivisions. Only white Protestant Christians may live in these subdivisions. Step two is to connect these all-white Protestant Christian settlements to each other by a highway on which African-Americans are forbidden to drive. To facilitate control, the automobile tags for African-Americans will be a different color from the tags issued to white motorists. Checkpoints would be set up all around the state capitol to search and harass African-Americans trying to enter. Would you support such a plan? Would you hail that mythical governor as a man of peace? Would you go to your church congregation and ask the members to send money to
Re: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs
Up until the 2nd WW there were as many if not more anti-semitic acts in the US than Europe. Zeke Yewdall wrote: Actually, it seems to me that the US and Europe created Israel because we felt bad about the holocaust, but not enough to actually want to stop their anti-semitism so they found a place where the Jew's could have a homeland, without inconveniencing any Europeans. It makes us feel better about the holocaust to say that we support Israel, but I think it's rather condemning of us westerners that we still fight antisemitism at home, rather unsucessfully at times, and only support Jews when there are no westerners to be inconvenienced by them, in Israel. If we really wanted to atone for the holocaust, is shipping the Jews off to a far off land where we don't have to deal with them the best way to show this? It seems to me that this is almost as insulting to the Jews as it is to the Palistinians, though obviously billions of dollars of military support goes some way towards placating the insult. On 7/19/06, *Bob Molloy* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yo Fritz, Yeah, right on Fritz. And just to prove it your ethnic forebears killed off six million of these bloody Jews only to have the rest of us dumb westerners stop them just before they'd finished the job. Now it's up to the poor Palestinians with only suicide bombers and Katushya rockets to carry on where the rest of us left off. We need to force the Israelis to open these roads, tear down their walls and move back onto their own territory so that the bombers in civilian clothing have a fighting chance to get closer to Israeli settlements. At least let's have a level playing field here. After it's all over and the Palestinians have finally established their Muslim state we can allow a few Israeli refugees into western countries just as long as they toe the line and run the garbage collection systems for us. Good one, Fritz, Bob. - Original Message - *From:* Fritz Friesinger mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:33 AM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs Forewardet by Fritz -- Check Your Beliefs By Charley Reese 03/17/06 -- -- Let's play a fantasy game to check on our belief in human rights. Let's suppose that in a mythical state, a governor announced a campaign to punish African-Americans for alleged violence. Step one is to confiscate the land owned by African-Americans, evict them from it and use the land to build massive new subdivisions. Only white Protestant Christians may live in these subdivisions. Step two is to connect these all-white Protestant Christian settlements to each other by a highway on which African-Americans are forbidden to drive. To facilitate control, the automobile tags for African-Americans will be a different color from the tags issued to white motorists. Checkpoints would be set up all around the state capitol to search and harass African-Americans trying to enter. Would you support such a plan? Would you hail that mythical governor as a man of peace? Would you go to your church congregation and ask the members to send money to the occupants of these white settlements? Would you lobby the federal government to subsidize this new apartheid state in our midst? I don't think so. I think most Americans would consider such acts an abomination, un-American and a mockery of everything both Christianity and the United States stand for. Well, if you would condemn such acts here directed against African-Americans, why won't you condemn identical acts committed against the Palestinians by the state of Israel? Those settlements you hear about are built on Palestinian land, and they are for Jews only. New roads that Palestinians are forbidden to use connect them. The entire West Bank is riddled with Israeli checkpoints, where innocent Palestinians are daily humiliated and harassed. A trip to a nearby village can mean waiting in line at checkpoints for hours. Palestinians have died in these lines. After all of these humiliations, abuses, the houses destroyed, the children killed, the olive trees uprooted, how do you think Palestinians feel about Americans who support the Israelis no matter what they do to the Palestinians? Don't take my word about these abuses. Check out the Israeli human-rights organization at www.btselem.org/English http://www.btselem.org/English. If you cannot condemn the flagrant abuses of
Re: [Biofuel] Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released
I was 19 or so. I got too close to a fuel tank (2-3) feet with a cutting wheel on a Ingersol air rotary. I was cutting off the exhaust system. He smacked me in the back of the head with his rather large hand, put his cigar-chomping face into mine and explained the facts of gas, fumes, flames and explosions. He then offered to slap me into next week if I had any problems with it. Needless to say, the lesson took. Bill Ellis wrote: Hey Mike, Ditto on the water filled gas tank, course back then it seems folks had just a smidge more in the common sense department. In addition if my boss had caught me even close to a gas tank with a torch I would have been in the unemployment line. */Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I feel sorry for the guy and his family but using a torch around methanol? Back in my wrenching days my boss made sure we knew an empty gas tank was more danergous than a full one, and god forbid you did any welding the gas tank had to be filled with water first. Appal Energy wrote: A bad day at Black Rock... http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-jul1406-explosion_cause.113ae8b1.html Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released 02:30 PM MDT on Friday, July 14, 2006 KTVB.COM PAYETTE -- Investigators say they now know what caused an explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last week that killed a Meridian man. One man died at a fire and explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last Friday. The Payette County Sheriff's Office released its findings today into the explosion and subsequent fire at the plant that left 25-year-old Blaise Black dead. The cause of the fire was determined to be an explosion of a 25,000 gallon steel holding tank that Blaise was working on. The tank contain about 30 to 40 gallons of glycerin and methanol liquid mix. Both products are flammable and give off flammable vapors. Investigators say at the time of the explosion Blaise was working on the top of the tank attempting to install a two-inch steel pipe with a 90-degree elbow on the end to function as a vent on the top of the tank. During the installation of the vent tube a steel two-inch cap was removed from the side of the tank where the vent was to be installed. This allowed the vapors to escape from the tank. When Blaise lit his cutting torch it ignited the vapors, which triggered the fire and explosion. The Payette County coroner says Blaise it appears Blaise died from blunt force trauma as a result of the explosion. The explosion would have thrown him violently upward against the ceiling and a large beam that was above him. As a result of the explosion, the ceiling and beam came down and trapped him on the top of the tank. The force of the impact would have killed him immediately. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ /Wildbill/ /Sutton.VT / Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups. http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=41144/*http://groups.yahoo.com/local/newemail.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Re: [Biofuel] Pump choice
We're using a clearwater with good results - but be careful to leave a little oil in it for priming purposes and when you plumb it use tape - any air leaks really impair its ability... Charles List wrote: Hi All Thanks to all who have advised me this last few months, I am now a biofueller! 105l batches, good product. Unfortunately, after 10 good batches, my pump has started spraying out of the back of the impeller housing. So I took it apart and the impeller has broken up and the housing has been eaten through at the back, around the mechanical seal. It was 30 years old or so, free and a plastic spa pump, so I'm not too distressed, but I obviously don't want it happening again. I notice that the clearwater pump used by JtF is made of cast iron, so should my next pump be made of metal? Also, is the impeller in the clearwater pump plastic? As I know you can get some with stainless steel blades, I wonder my impeller break-up was due to age or chemicals. Thanks Charles List ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs
Joe, I think Bob was being sarcastic - read his post again. Joe Street wrote: Bob; Your comments are surely offensive and ill considered. Move back onto their own territory? Pray tell where is that? Parachuting displaced Jews into the area we call Israel was the first mistake made by the US and Brittain IMHO and we have been living with the fallout ever since. Although all of the one sidedness and unfair support for the Jews is well expressed in the post and rightly so, your comments about garbage collection mark you as an anti-semite and I believe you should appologize for that comment. Don't get me wrong I am no supporter of any particular people or unfair advantage in any regard in fact I hate all that, but you can't come on a public list and make such statements. It is like condemning americans with a broad brush stroke because you hate the actions of their government. Fair? Justified? Right? I think not. Joe Bob Molloy wrote: Yo Fritz, Yeah, right on Fritz. And just to prove it your ethnic forebears killed off six million of these bloody Jews only to have the rest of us dumb westerners stop them just before they'd finished the job. Now it's up to the poor Palestinians with only suicide bombers and Katushya rockets to carry on where the rest of us left off. We need to force the Israelis to open these roads, tear down their walls and move back onto their own territory so that the bombers in civilian clothing have a fighting chance to get closer to Israeli settlements. At least let's have a level playing field here. After it's all over and the Palestinians have finally established their Muslim state we can allow a few Israeli refugees into western countries just as long as they toe the line and run the garbage collection systems for us. Good one, Fritz, Bob. - Original Message - *From:* Fritz Friesinger mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:33 AM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs Forewardet by Fritz -- Check Your Beliefs By Charley Reese 03/17/06 -- -- Let's play a fantasy game to check on our belief in human rights. Let's suppose that in a mythical state, a governor announced a campaign to punish African-Americans for alleged violence. Step one is to confiscate the land owned by African-Americans, evict them from it and use the land to build massive new subdivisions. Only white Protestant Christians may live in these subdivisions. Step two is to connect these all-white Protestant Christian settlements to each other by a highway on which African-Americans are forbidden to drive. To facilitate control, the automobile tags for African-Americans will be a different color from the tags issued to white motorists. Checkpoints would be set up all around the state capitol to search and harass African-Americans trying to enter. Would you support such a plan? Would you hail that mythical governor as a man of peace? Would you go to your church congregation and ask the members to send money to the occupants of these white settlements? Would you lobby the federal government to subsidize this new apartheid state in our midst? I don't think so. I think most Americans would consider such acts an abomination, un-American and a mockery of everything both Christianity and the United States stand for. Well, if you would condemn such acts here directed against African-Americans, why won't you condemn identical acts committed against the Palestinians by the state of Israel? Those settlements you hear about are built on Palestinian land, and they are for Jews only. New roads that Palestinians are forbidden to use connect them. The entire West Bank is riddled with Israeli checkpoints, where innocent Palestinians are daily humiliated and harassed. A trip to a nearby village can mean waiting in line at checkpoints for hours. Palestinians have died in these lines. After all of these humiliations, abuses, the houses destroyed, the children killed, the olive trees uprooted, how do you think Palestinians feel about Americans who support the Israelis no matter what they do to the Palestinians? Don't take my word about these abuses. Check out the Israeli human-rights organization at www.btselem.org/English http://www.btselem.org/English. If you cannot condemn the flagrant abuses of Palestinians by the Israeli government, then you are undoubtedly a bigot, the worst kind of racist pig who believes that Palestinians are some kind of subspecies of the human race. If you do condemn in your heart these terrible abuses, but are afraid to speak out about them, then
Re: [Biofuel] Pump choice
Sorry, I was being cheeky, they'll work until the methoxide eats them - of course - I was using an old Dodge pump so YMMV. Jason Katie wrote: well, i can get them for just about free at the boneyard, so i can test and see when or if they blow out, ill let you know what happens when i get the chance to experiment. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - *From:* Zeke Yewdall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:14 PM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Pump choice Uhh, how can the answer to both questions be yes. If it dissolves, it won't work, right? I'd think it shouldn't have a problem with methanol, since that's in windshield washer fluid anyway, but methoxide is a different monster. Plus, these pumps are pretty chinzy -- I think they'd burn out after not too long of continuous operation even with the nicest fluid. In a 20 year lifetime of a car, it would only run about 60 hours (assumptions: 200,000 miles, 10% of miles require using windshield washers, when using it it is used 3 times per mile, for three 1 second shots each time) On 7/19/06, *Mike Weaver* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes. Yes. Jason Katie wrote: i have a pump question on a side note. will a window washer fluid pump from a car work in my little test reactor, or will it dissolve as well? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Pump choice Hi All Thanks to all who have advised me this last few months, I am now a biofueller! 105l batches, good product. Unfortunately, after 10 good batches, my pump has started spraying out of the back of the impeller housing. So I took it apart and the impeller has broken up and the housing has been eaten through at the back, around the mechanical seal. It was 30 years old or so, free and a plastic spa pump, so I'm not too distressed, but I obviously don't want it happening again. I notice that the clearwater pump used by JtF is made of cast iron, so should my next pump be made of metal? Also, is the impeller in the clearwater pump plastic? As I know you can get some with stainless steel blades, I wonder my impeller break-up was due to age or chemicals. Thanks Charles List -- -- This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone. www.schoolzone.net.nz http://www.schoolzone.net.nz This email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone, but is not guaranteed to be virus-free. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/391 - Release Date: 7/18/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Pump choice
your mileage may vary Joe Street wrote: YMMV ?? (Yes My Mother..???) I'm so out of the loop Mike Weaver wrote: Sorry, I was being cheeky, they'll work until the methoxide eats them - of course - I was using an old Dodge pump so YMMV. Jason Katie wrote: well, i can get them for just about free at the boneyard, so i can test and see when or if they blow out, ill let you know what happens when i get the chance to experiment. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - *From:* Zeke Yewdall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:14 PM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Pump choice Uhh, how can the answer to both questions be yes. If it dissolves, it won't work, right? I'd think it shouldn't have a problem with methanol, since that's in windshield washer fluid anyway, but methoxide is a different monster. Plus, these pumps are pretty chinzy -- I think they'd burn out after not too long of continuous operation even with the nicest fluid. In a 20 year lifetime of a car, it would only run about 60 hours (assumptions: 200,000 miles, 10% of miles require using windshield washers, when using it it is used 3 times per mile, for three 1 second shots each time) On 7/19/06, *Mike Weaver* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes. Yes. Jason Katie wrote: i have a pump question on a side note. will a window washer fluid pump from a car work in my little test reactor, or will it dissolve as well? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Pump choice Hi All Thanks to all who have advised me this last few months, I am now a biofueller! 105l batches, good product. Unfortunately, after 10 good batches, my pump has started spraying out of the back of the impeller housing. So I took it apart and the impeller has broken up and the housing has been eaten through at the back, around the mechanical seal. It was 30 years old or so, free and a plastic spa pump, so I'm not too distressed, but I obviously don't want it happening again. I notice that the clearwater pump used by JtF is made of cast iron, so should my next pump be made of metal? Also, is the impeller in the clearwater pump plastic? As I know you can get some with stainless steel blades, I wonder my impeller break-up was due to age or chemicals. Thanks Charles List -- -- This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone. www.schoolzone.net.nz http://www.schoolzone.net.nz This email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone, but is not guaranteed to be virus-free. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/391 - Release Date: 7/18/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Pump choice
Tom, what is the name of the slow dry, soft set, pipe thread sealant you use? We are still getting small leaks... Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, As Mikw Weaver pointed out, 1 Clearwater pumps are not self-priming. Another way to avoid priming each time is to: Position the pump so that it is level with the bottom of the WVO source and the bottom of the reactor. This allows it to prime by gravity. I pump WVO from a plastic barrel that is on a small platform ~ 16 inches high. My pump and reactor are on platforms the same height. I used JB Weld to attach a plastic nipple about 2 inches from the bottom of the WVO barrel line to the pump. Air leaks do impair the pump's ability. I'd recommend threaded barbs w. hose clamps for any hoses ... (rather than using pipe nipples to hoses). Also check on a regular basis to make sure clamps are tight. While teflon tape works great for water lines, it is not recommended for fuel/solvents lines. The fittings will eventually leak and the tape turns to goo. I was advised to use a slow dry, soft set, pipe thread sealant when plumbing fittings in my reactor. After 8 months, no leaks. The fittings are also very easy to disassemble for processor maintenance. Best of luck, Tom - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pump choice We're using a clearwater with good results - but be careful to leave a little oil in it for priming purposes and when you plumb it use tape - any air leaks really impair its ability... Charles List wrote: Hi All Thanks to all who have advised me this last few months, I am now a biofueller! 105l batches, good product. Unfortunately, after 10 good batches, my pump has started spraying out of the back of the impeller housing. So I took it apart and the impeller has broken up and the housing has been eaten through at the back, around the mechanical seal. It was 30 years old or so, free and a plastic spa pump, so I'm not too distressed, but I obviously don't want it happening again. I notice that the clearwater pump used by JtF is made of cast iron, so should my next pump be made of metal? Also, is the impeller in the clearwater pump plastic? As I know you can get some with stainless steel blades, I wonder my impeller break-up was due to age or chemicals. Thanks Charles List ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pump choice
Any advice on 40 gallon batches and a clearwater pump? We haven't used this latest reactor yet - will it have enought power to mix 40 gallons? -Mike Joe Street wrote: Hey Tom; My guess on this is it is not so much the pump but the size of the plumbing. I noticed that one particular pump with the same size motor and impeller was offered with 1 or 3/4 inlet and the throughput was almost the same as a smaller pump with standard 3/4 inlet unless you ordered it with the 1 I then took a look at a whoile bunch of pump curves and what you find is that you won't get beyond about 10-15 GPM with any size motor or pump unless you go larger than 3/4 on the pump inlet. The 90 litre wall I think is related to the 3/4 tank connections on the hot water tanks we all like using not the pump per se but it amounts to the same difference in the end. I believe it is a waste of time and money buying a larger tank than about 100 litres since as most people find out you can't get a good reaction on about more than 90 litres of oil anyways. Joe Thomas Kelly wrote: Charles, The impeller in the clearwater pump is metal. Plastic impellers will eventually fail in pumps used to agitate the reaction. My experience w. the clearwater pump is that it will handle up to 90L (~ 24 gal) batches. Above that, even after three hours reaction time, I have gotten incomplete reactions. Congratulations on your success scaling up. Tom - Original Message - From: Charles List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Pump choice Hi All Thanks to all who have advised me this last few months, I am now a biofueller! 105l batches, good product. Unfortunately, after 10 good batches, my pump has started spraying out of the back of the impeller housing. So I took it apart and the impeller has broken up and the housing has been eaten through at the back, around the mechanical seal. It was 30 years old or so, free and a plastic spa pump, so I'm not too distressed, but I obviously don't want it happening again. I notice that the clearwater pump used by JtF is made of cast iron, so should my next pump be made of metal? Also, is the impeller in the clearwater pump plastic? As I know you can get some with stainless steel blades, I wonder my impeller break-up was due to age or chemicals. Thanks Charles List -- -- This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone. www.schoolzone.net.nz This email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone, but is not guaranteed to be virus-free. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released
It wasn't my intent to be insensitive. This was a case of operator error - a young man didn't realize the danger of methanol fumes and lost his life. Appal Energy wrote: It's sad to be making any comment on such a matter. Here you had a family that was on the edge of not only doing something great but putting themselves in an enormously better finanacial window to boot. Then the bottom falls out. I don't wish to insinuate anything about the owner/operators. But I can see and have seen where the backyard brewer mindset is being applied to commercial environements and is begging for accidents to happen. No containment. Open-face motors. Open reactors. Wood-fired boilers in close proximity to methanol or methanol fumes. It's one thing to spill a gallon here or lose a motor there or foul up in a small way somewhere else when you're working with a five or perhaps a 55 gallon pale. It's altogether another when you're handling thousands of gallons at a time. This is now two plants at least that have been lost to methanol related fire/explosions. I don't doubt that there will be more and perhaps already have been. At this scale making biodiesel requires as much concentration as walking a tightrope across the Royal Gorge with no balance bar. I have no doubt that a lot of people are going to fail to make that connection. Todd Swearingen Mike Weaver wrote: I feel sorry for the guy and his family but using a torch around methanol? Back in my wrenching days my boss made sure we knew an empty gas tank was more danergous than a full one, and god forbid you did any welding the gas tank had to be filled with water first. Appal Energy wrote: A bad day at Black Rock... http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-jul1406-explosion_cause.113ae8b1.html Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released 02:30 PM MDT on Friday, July 14, 2006 KTVB.COM PAYETTE -- Investigators say they now know what caused an explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last week that killed a Meridian man. One man died at a fire and explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last Friday. The Payette County Sheriff's Office released its findings today into the explosion and subsequent fire at the plant that left 25-year-old Blaise Black dead. The cause of the fire was determined to be an explosion of a 25,000 gallon steel holding tank that Blaise was working on. The tank contain about 30 to 40 gallons of glycerin and methanol liquid mix. Both products are flammable and give off flammable vapors. Investigators say at the time of the explosion Blaise was working on the top of the tank attempting to install a two-inch steel pipe with a 90-degree elbow on the end to function as a vent on the top of the tank. During the installation of the vent tube a steel two-inch cap was removed from the side of the tank where the vent was to be installed. This allowed the vapors to escape from the tank. When Blaise lit his cutting torch it ignited the vapors, which triggered the fire and explosion. The Payette County coroner says Blaise it appears Blaise died from blunt force trauma as a result of the explosion. The explosion would have thrown him violently upward against the ceiling and a large beam that was above him. As a result of the explosion, the ceiling and beam came down and trapped him on the top of the tank. The force of the impact would have killed him immediately. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail
Re: [Biofuel] Smacking the hornet's nest
Fritz, 1. No, I said it was then called British Palestine. 2. It was then ruled by the British as part of the British Empire. But, than does not make it British. The people living there were primarily Muslim Arabs, a few Christians and, surprisingly, some Jewish people. 3. I am not saying things are not hard for Palestinians under the Israeli government, not to mention the PA is likely the most corrupt government in the world. 4. I am also not saying I approve of everything the Israeli Gov't does. 5. I also never said I approve of the way Israel is handling the current situation. 6. My being an American does not impair my thinking; ad hominem attacks usually indicate that you are out of intellectual ammo. 7. My point with the land is that most of us in North America are arguably living on land that was home to Native Americans. I'm fairly sure my huse is on land once occupied by the Algonkian nation. If you are in Quebec, you are probably living on Abenaki land. 8. I offer no defense of US mining companies. Most of what they do is indefensible. 9. I am saying I think blowing each other to bits won't solve anything. Nowhere in my post do I say I defend what is going on in Palestine and Israel. I did say I think it was a mistake to drop all the Jewish refugees into that area. But, no one else wanted them. I personally think the US should have taken them in. I am not quite sure what you mean by your last sentance. -Mike Fritz Friesinger wrote: Mike, what you are saying is,Palestine was British then? so how it became British?and thas this make the whole thing less hard for the Palestinians? What happened a hundred years ago should not happening anymore today! We came a long way to realize the wrongs of the past but instaed of garding that those attrocytis cant be repeatet we are turning a blind eye and excuse things with old rethoric.Your analysis sucks but then you are US Citicen and what can we expect from such! To my very own situation,i live in Quebec Canada on a piece of Land (a former open pit Graphit mine) nobody wantet so i got it fairly cheep.But then i am cleaning up the mess a US Mining companie had left and this for seven years now! i have put trouts in my lakes and had spent a lot of money for topsoil and plant trees and garden!And once i be finished (probably never) people will come and ask if the could live on my land and i will refuse the request if the show me the same attitude as you Fritz - Original Message - *From:* Mike Weaver mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2006 9:18 AM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Smacking the hornet's nest I can't say I am always a fan of the Israeli government right or wrong, and let's be honest, they've made some mistakes (but then look at the US gov't), but they are in an impossible spot. Do they need some nudging to do they right thing? Yes, but we all do. Let's stop and think, Why are they where they are? - Because NO Western country would take then. Roosevelt turned away of boatload of Jewish refugees. They really didn't have a lot of options. In Poland, TWO YEARS after WWII ended, there was a massacre of Jews. I can understand why one might gamble on a boat trip to (then) British Palestine rather than go home to Europe. Personally, I think the whole idea was ill-conceived, and US should have settled the refugees in the largely unocupied American West. Heck, a state even. Besides, I think if you wait long enough, Fritz, you'll see the same behavior here anyway. We're already denying blacks the right to vote in some states, and it's pretty much illegal to be black in a white area after dark already. Step one is to confiscate the land owned by African-Americans, [or Native Americans] evict them from it and use the land to build massive new subdivisions. Only white Protestant Christians may live in these subdivisions. - Check, doing that here. I notice you're in Canada - do you live in a house? Where did the land come from? A friendly Algonkin http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/algonquian/algonhist1.htm give it to you? I notice the Canadia Government has been having a little trouble with its First Nation denizens - a few Mohawk lawsuits here and there. Don't judge, so that you won't be judged. http://bible.cc/matthew/7-2.htmFor http://bible.cc/matthew/7-2.htm%3EFor with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you. ^3 http://bible.cc/matthew/7-3.htm Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but don't consider the beam that is in your own eye
Re: [Biofuel] Smacking the hornet's nest
No. I find your logic hard to follow. I also did not say being called British Palestine made it British. At that time it was ruled by Britain. I never mentioned Hitler nor the Nazis. Yes, I said the government of Israel has made mistakes and will most certainly continue to do so, as will the US. I just don't understand your 3rd sentance. I am not talking about Hitler. After all it is your Gvnmt. who supplies the Arms to Israel and therefor you are as guilty as my Parents have been in the Holocaust Canada sell $900,000,000 worth of arms annually. Canada sell arms to Israel also: ** Canada exported military goods valued at $100,000 or more to seven countries hosting armed conflicts in 2002: Algeria , Colombia India , Israel , Nigeria, the Philippines , and Sri Lanka . The value of arms exports to these countries totaled $8-million. -Wikipedia So, as your government is selling arms to Israel that makes you as guilty as the rest of us? By your logic you've got blood on your hands. Also, I have to say, what's the difference between saying my thinking is impaired because I'm a citizen of the US, and saying that my thinking is impaired because I'm a citizen of Zambia? That sounds like a bigoted statement to me. Fritz Friesinger wrote: Mike, your point,that it was british Palestine and so make things sound,it was not real Palestine! Than,if you say,the Israeli Gvnmt.hade made some mistakes it souns like: everyone is entitled to some Mistakes and so But you are so far of reality as if you would say Hitler made some Mistakes and this is making my final point in my last Mail! After all it is your Gvnmt. who supplies the Arms to Israel and therefor you are as guilty as my Parents have been in the Holocaust Simon Wiesenthal said :you have to make a stand !What an emty Phrase considering the murder going on in Palestine,an occupation lasting now 40 Years To you point 6. I doo think that you beeing an US American impairs your thinking and the lack of my intellectual capacity is more my lack of good english get the picture? Fritz - Original Message - *From:* Mike Weaver mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:19 PM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Smacking the hornet's nest Fritz, 1. No, I said it was then called British Palestine. 2. It was then ruled by the British as part of the British Empire. But, than does not make it British. The people living there were primarily Muslim Arabs, a few Christians and, surprisingly, some Jewish people. 3. I am not saying things are not hard for Palestinians under the Israeli government, not to mention the PA is likely the most corrupt government in the world. 4. I am also not saying I approve of everything the Israeli Gov't does. 5. I also never said I approve of the way Israel is handling the current situation. 6. My being an American does not impair my thinking; ad hominem attacks usually indicate that you are out of intellectual ammo. 7. My point with the land is that most of us in North America are arguably living on land that was home to Native Americans. I'm fairly sure my huse is on land once occupied by the Algonkian nation. If you are in Quebec, you are probably living on Abenaki land. 8. I offer no defense of US mining companies. Most of what they do is indefensible. 9. I am saying I think blowing each other to bits won't solve anything. Nowhere in my post do I say I defend what is going on in Palestine and Israel. I did say I think it was a mistake to drop all the Jewish refugees into that area. But, no one else wanted them. I personally think the US should have taken them in. I am not quite sure what you mean by your last sentance. -Mike Fritz Friesinger wrote: Mike, what you are saying is,Palestine was British then? so how it became British?and thas this make the whole thing less hard for the Palestinians? What happened a hundred years ago should not happening anymore today! We came a long way to realize the wrongs of the past but instaed of garding that those attrocytis cant be repeatet we are turning a blind eye and excuse things with old rethoric.Your analysis sucks but then you are US Citicen and what can we expect from such! To my very own situation,i live in Quebec Canada on a piece of Land (a former open pit Graphit mine) nobody wantet so i got it fairly cheep.But then i am cleaning up the mess a US Mining companie had left and this for seven years now! i have put trouts in my lakes and had spent a lot of money for topsoil and plant trees and garden!And once i be finished
Re: [Biofuel] Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released
Ah, couldn't tell The only reason I know any of this stuff is that I was once a professional mechanic - so I guess I'm one up on the average home-brewer - I've used a torch and know the dangers. Appal Energy wrote: Actually? I was more in agreement with your sentiments, not deriding your comments. Still, the obvious must be said. Home brew mindsets will not survive if gearing up for commercial outputs. Not saying that the homebrew mindset was the cause of inattention and the accident. But I am saying that those who have been doing this for awhile and are slowly moving to the commercial end need to take a crash course in combustible materials handling or else these types of accidents are going to continue. Todd Swearingen Mike Weaver wrote: It wasn't my intent to be insensitive. This was a case of operator error - a young man didn't realize the danger of methanol fumes and lost his life. Appal Energy wrote: It's sad to be making any comment on such a matter. Here you had a family that was on the edge of not only doing something great but putting themselves in an enormously better finanacial window to boot. Then the bottom falls out. I don't wish to insinuate anything about the owner/operators. But I can see and have seen where the backyard brewer mindset is being applied to commercial environements and is begging for accidents to happen. No containment. Open-face motors. Open reactors. Wood-fired boilers in close proximity to methanol or methanol fumes. It's one thing to spill a gallon here or lose a motor there or foul up in a small way somewhere else when you're working with a five or perhaps a 55 gallon pale. It's altogether another when you're handling thousands of gallons at a time. This is now two plants at least that have been lost to methanol related fire/explosions. I don't doubt that there will be more and perhaps already have been. At this scale making biodiesel requires as much concentration as walking a tightrope across the Royal Gorge with no balance bar. I have no doubt that a lot of people are going to fail to make that connection. Todd Swearingen Mike Weaver wrote: I feel sorry for the guy and his family but using a torch around methanol? Back in my wrenching days my boss made sure we knew an empty gas tank was more danergous than a full one, and god forbid you did any welding the gas tank had to be filled with water first. Appal Energy wrote: A bad day at Black Rock... http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-jul1406-explosion_cause.113ae8b1.html Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released 02:30 PM MDT on Friday, July 14, 2006 KTVB.COM PAYETTE -- Investigators say they now know what caused an explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last week that killed a Meridian man. One man died at a fire and explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last Friday. The Payette County Sheriff's Office released its findings today into the explosion and subsequent fire at the plant that left 25-year-old Blaise Black dead. The cause of the fire was determined to be an explosion of a 25,000 gallon steel holding tank that Blaise was working on. The tank contain about 30 to 40 gallons of glycerin and methanol liquid mix. Both products are flammable and give off flammable vapors. Investigators say at the time of the explosion Blaise was working on the top of the tank attempting to install a two-inch steel pipe with a 90-degree elbow on the end to function as a vent on the top of the tank. During the installation of the vent tube a steel two-inch cap was removed from the side of the tank where the vent was to be installed. This allowed the vapors to escape from the tank. When Blaise lit his cutting torch it ignited the vapors, which triggered the fire and explosion. The Payette County coroner says Blaise it appears Blaise died from blunt force trauma as a result of the explosion. The explosion would have thrown him violently upward against the ceiling and a large beam that was above him. As a result of the explosion, the ceiling and beam came down and trapped him on the top of the tank. The force of the impact would have killed him immediately. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives
Re: [Biofuel] Check your Beliefs
and unnecessary - unless you happen to be a Palestinian yearning for your land back or an Israeli who's been threatened with annihilation since birth. It's also a war that's been going on since mankind began. It's about land and religion and culture and who dominates who. There are no rights and wrongs there are only who wins and who loses. The winners write history and we move on. Mike Weaver made the point when he wondered if he might be living on land owned by an indigenous people, a point which also applies to you too, Fritz, despite your disingenuous attempt to justify occupation of unwanted land. However, before you think of noble savages, remember that all those nice peace-loving indigenes slaughtered and plundered their way through the millenia since they left Africa (where we all originated) to wherever they finally settled. The 19th century saw the last vestiges of this land grab. If you were a theologian you'd call it original sin. Darwin was earthier, and more enlightening, he called it survival of the fittest. You may take sides, wring your hands, jump up and down, talk about human rights but we are all - even those nice people in the rain forest who we think live in harmony with nature - guilty of genocide and dispossession. In the present case it's called the Arab-Israeli war. We'll know who was right when somebody wins. And if you've forgotten how it all began, here's a brief sketch. I found it on my thumbnail. The UNO blessing on the establishment of Israel in 1948 was merely the recognition of a de facto situation. From that moment on Israel was de jure, i.e. a legal entity in international law. The Arabs disagreed. Five Arab armies (Egypt, Syria, Trans-Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq - including the British-trained and armed Arab Legion) immediately invaded the fledgling state. The world responded by clapping a total arms embargo on Israel. Against that the Israelis had nine obsolete aircraft, a few tanks, fewer than 20,000 armed civilians -and balls. They won, and pushed out their frontiers to safeguard their collective backsides from future attacks. The attacks never stopped (rockets, mines, cross-border shelling and guerilla incursions) but the next big one came in 1967 - the so-called Six Day War. This time the Arabs meant business. Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to all Israeli shipping, cutting off Israel's only supply route with Asia and stopping the flow of oil from its main supplier, Iran. President Nasser of Egypt challenged Israel to fight. Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight. He ordered all UN peace-keeping forces stationed on Israeli borders to leave. The UN complied without even calling a meeting. The Voice of the Arabs radio station proclaimed: As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is total war, which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence. Syrian Defense Minister Hafez Assad was more blunt: The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is unitedI, as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation. Nasser topped that: We shall not enter Palestine with its soil covered in sand; we shall enter it with its soil saturated in blood. He meant Israeli blood. The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon massed on the borders of Israel. Backing them with men and munitions were Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab world. The actual count was 465,000 troops, more than 2,800 tanks, and 800 aircraft. President Johnson warned the Israelis not to fight. The Red Cross stocked up on blankets, the rest of the world stood by and watched. Israel couldn't get a hearing in the UN. The Security Council, it seemed, was difficult to contact. We all know what happened. The Israelis didn't wait for the war. They pre-empted it. In six days (about the same time God needed to create heaven and earth) the Israelis - using an army 80% of which were weekend soldiers i.e. civilians taking time off from work -and an airforce a fraction the size of that possessed by the Arabs defeated the lot and pushed out the borders to a more comfortable fit. Figuring that sauce for the goose was sauce for the gander they also closed the Suez Canal to all nations. On the sixth day just as the Israelis were heading for Damascus the Security Council suddenly found time to convene
Re: [Biofuel] WVO
Depends on the mix, I imagine. 5% rapeseed oil would be fine w/ winter diesel Joe Street wrote: Very funny Tom! Designer exhausts! You should patent that idea. Recently I was wondering if I could make biofuel out of citrus oil and go off smelling like an orage blossom. LOL. But seriously ( actually I am seriously curious about citrus oil) now when it comes to the pour point some of these aromatic oils may make a low temperature fuel. ?? I have been talking to a farmer who runs an organic dairy farm and he is growing a crop of winter rape this fall. He claims you can mix the SVO with winter diesel and don't need to trans esterify. I am skeptical of course. I have very little info on the winter canola. Do you or does anyone on the list have experience with it? Joe Thomas Kelly wrote: Luke, So chicken fat it is. Maybe. Did you use bottom heat? as in a pot on the stove? If so, did it crackle a bit? Any water on the bottom? If you used a submersible heater, did bubbles form around the heating element? The white stuff , about 5%, might be water. I use 100% BD in my car until night temps get down around freezing (32F /~2C). I then go to a 70% BD : 30% winterized petro diesel blend. 32F is a good deal below the cloud point of my BD. (You can check your BD by putting it in the fridge, check occassionally, read temp when it starts to cloud.) I drive an '82 Mercedes 300SD. I think it would pump jello. Last year I winterized my BD as described at JTF. This year I have separated WVO with the lowest cloud point from WVO that clouds at high temps. When the temps go down, the stuff that clouds easily becomes heating fuel for my house ... tank in basement, the other stuff becomes BD for my car ... outside in the cold. I actually like BD made from the WVO w. chicken fat. The car exhaust smells more like a barbeque than like french fries. My next 20 gal (76L) batch will have about 5 gal of bacon grease solid, had to melt it. It'll go in the car. I sometimes go fishing w a friend early in the morning. He has requested bacon and egg exhaust. Maybe this next batch will fit the bill. Good luck w the WVO By the way, what do you get for a titration on it? Tom - Original Message - From: WM LUKE MATHISEN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO Tom, I heated to 170f as you suggested. It became transluent and then congelled again, this time in three layers, a bottom layer (about 5%) that looks like black solids, then a layer of something white (also about 5%) and the rest brown goo. But it looks like no water. So chicken fat it is. Any point in processing it seperately? Except to save the good stuff for winter use? At what outside temp do I need to be conserned about BD 100 gelling? Oh, and any idea what the white layer is? Thanks for your help. :-) Luke From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:50:56 -0400 Luke, If your WVO was used to cook meat such as chicken, you will have some animal fat which may be causing the middle layer. It will still make excellent warm weather fuel. Of course, it might be water. Heat a small sample to get the water to drop out. Take some of the dried WVO and let it cool. If it remains clear, you had water. If it clouds upon cooling it probably contains animal fat. Tom - Original Message - From: WM LUKE MATHISEN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 7:56 AM Subject: [Biofuel] WVO The waste veg oil (wvo)I collect has three different layers after it settles. A clear (translucent) layer on top and a brown non-translucent layer - that doesn't want to filter - in the middle and then black solids on the bottom. My question is the middle brown layer. It seems - and I havent run enough batches to be sure - that the middle layer has water in it. Is it worth the energy - propane - to process it when you have to boil off the water? :-) Luke _ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] Check your Beliefs
I threw in the bible quotes, though I don't call myself a Christian. I think the bible is a fascinating historical and literary artifact, but not the literal word of God. There are some interesting thoughts contained within, tho' The quotes I mentioned were basically judge not, lest ye be judged - I do try to remember this, though not becaue I fear Hell. Also, Let he who is free from sin cast the first stone and why are you concerned with that mote in your neighbor's eye when you have such a beam in your own? From the Qu'ran: Even as the fingers of the two hands are equal, so are human beings equal to one another. No one has any right, nor any preference to claim over another. You are brothers. Final Sermon of Muhammad Anyone who believes in God and the Last Day should not harm his neighbour. Anyone who believes in God and the Last Day should entertain his guest generously. And anyone who believes in God and the Last Day should say what is good or keep quiet. Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 47. Happy is the man who avoids dissension, but how fine is the man who is afflicted and shows endurance. Sunah of Abu Dawood, Hadith 1996. It is better for a leader to make a mistake in forgiving than to make a mistake in punishing. Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1011 Hard to keep the current situation going and be a Christian or a Muslim. I didn't go through the Old Testament, though I might have, as all three regard it as relevant. -Weaver Bob Molloy wrote: Hi Fritz, Thanks for your two posts. I don't think I have anything further to add to the debate other than to say I feel for your Palestinian friend. My approach was too academic and certainly not acceptable in terms of the very real human crisis which has developed. The current situation is indefensible and - as indicated by the sources supplied by Keith - even the status quo ante appears more and more a legal fiction. Keith is also on the button when he points out that unless until we can add more light to this subject we are only generating heat. One minor point: I offered no quotations from the Bible. If you reread my post you will see I carefully avoided that. In the context it wouldn't have been appropriate. I apologise and withdraw. Best wishes, Bob. - Original Message - *From:* Fritz Friesinger mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tuesday, July 25, 2006 5:14 AM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Check your Beliefs Bob and all, here is an answer of my goog friend Shadi Hadjara,a Christian Palestinenser on your Mail Fritz Actually, the tactic of deploying suicide bombers against Israeli civilians only started in 1994 in retaliation to the Hebron Massacre. In March 1994, at the peak of the peace process between Israel and the Palestinians (where Palestinians were begrudgingly accepting to give away more than 3/4 of their ancestrial land and control over most of their sovreignty over their newly formed bantustans for peace), a Jewish settler in Hebron sneaks into the Hebron mosque during morning prayers. He unloads his automatic rifle on the kneeling crowd killing 4 dozen and injuring another 100. The first suicide bombing took place 3 weeks later. As for rocket attacks, the 1967 six day war resulted in the murder of more than 20,000 civilians by Israeli missiles. The 1982 three month Israeli invasion of Lebanon resulted in the massacre of another 20,000 Palestinian and Lebanese civilians by Israel. So please don't squabble over a few missiles in the arsenal of resistence groups that only formed to defend their respective communities against a murderous enraged rogue state. In the context of what took place in the past, Palestinians would not have fiercely opposed Israel if the Zionist pioneers had decided to create a state in Uganda. The fact is that Israel was created over their land by forcefully pushing them out of their towns and villages. The precurssor used to justify those atrocities in 1948 was the Jewish suffering in the Holocaust. When Europe de jure accepted Israel, it was not because the allied government believe in Israel's right to exist but for, what I believe is, the massive guilt of allowing the devestation of the Holocaust to run for so long combined with the underlying anti-semitism that still remains. So basically, Europeans did not want the Jews in their midst but at the same time felt that sending them off to their ancestrial land is much more ideal, humanely speaking, than sending them off to the gas chambers.
[Biofuel] Stuck in Connecticut with no Diesel - impromptu blending
Had an interesting experience in Conn. on Rte 95 coming home from Maine this year. I was trying to make New Jersey, where diesel was 2.79, but finally got so on fuel low I decided to just go ahead and buy a tankful in Conn. Pulled into two places advertising diesel and found one closed and one out. Next stop same story. Car was well into the red and the fuel light had been on for a while. As I didn't fancy being stuck in 100 degree heat with no fuel, I pulled into a Shaw's, bought 2 gallons of cheap veg. oil and poured it in the tank. I added about 15% RUG and 5% pure Isoprop. to the oil. I figure there may have been anywhere from half a gallon to a gallon and a half of diesel in left in the tank. This brought the gauge back up to 1/8th full, and by slowing down to around 60 mph I got to NJ and filled it. The car ran fine - couldn't see any difference. I'd read quite a bit about blending but had been leery of trying it - especially on a new car. I've though about trying it on a used MB 5 banger, or running a 50-50 mix. Anyone else have any experience with it? -Weaver ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] From the keeping you safe file: Children arrested, DNA tested, interrogated and locked up... for playing in a tree
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=397240in_page_id=1766in_page_id=1766expand=true ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Stuck in Connecticut with no Diesel - impromptu blending
Yup Marty Phee wrote: What's RUG? (regular unleaded?) Mike Weaver wrote: Had an interesting experience in Conn. on Rte 95 coming home from Maine this year. I was trying to make New Jersey, where diesel was 2.79, but finally got so on fuel low I decided to just go ahead and buy a tankful in Conn. Pulled into two places advertising diesel and found one closed and one out. Next stop same story. Car was well into the red and the fuel light had been on for a while. As I didn't fancy being stuck in 100 degree heat with no fuel, I pulled into a Shaw's, bought 2 gallons of cheap veg. oil and poured it in the tank. I added about 15% RUG and 5% pure Isoprop. to the oil. I figure there may have been anywhere from half a gallon to a gallon and a half of diesel in left in the tank. This brought the gauge back up to 1/8th full, and by slowing down to around 60 mph I got to NJ and filled it. The car ran fine - couldn't see any difference. I'd read quite a bit about blending but had been leery of trying it - especially on a new car. I've though about trying it on a used MB 5 banger, or running a 50-50 mix. Anyone else have any experience with it? -Weaver ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Window on Iran
Yup, just gotta love those Iranians! The way they treat the Ba'hais is model for how to respect other's beliefs and rights. What's a little murder, torture and intolerance? http://www.bahai.org/article-1-8-3-14.html And let's not even talk about Iranian Jews... http://www.uga.edu/bahai/2003/030310-1.html Kirk McLoren wrote: War is the plan - an election is coming up. Manipulation of the news in the US is the norm not the exception. The frightening part is how most Americans are not incensed by the manipulation. Kirk From: Fatemeh Keshavarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Aug 2, 2006 6:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Window on Iran Dear Friends, In the past few months, the U.S. media coverage of Iran has gone from bad to unbelievable. It used to emphasize the negative and leave out the positive. It now appears to be inventing information that those of us in close contact with Iran are unable to trace. For example, in May 2006 there was a report in the papers here that the Iranian Jews will be forced to wear a uniform. Last weekend, another breaking news was: Ahmadinejad is imposing a ban on the use of foreign words. There is no truth to either of these (I won't list more). Some of us in the Iranian American community feel that, due to the explosive conditions in the Middle East, we must provide our American friends and family members with possibility of access to reliable inform! ation, small as its impact might be. This is why I have put this e-mail update together to keep you informed of events in contemporary Iran. Its frequency would be once a week -- unless there is significant breaking news. I have made contact with friends who will monitor the news in Iran, and I will try to follow reliable publications here. Needless to say, I will not be able to be comprehensive. If you feel you don't need these updates, please let me know to take you off the list. If you wish to check how informed you might be about Iran, take a look at the following questions: On the issue of the Iranian nuclear program, did you know that: * The Iranian supreme religious leader issued a legal decree (fatwa) on November 6, 2004 in which all development, production, and use of nuclear weapons is considered against the Islamic pr! inciples and should not be undertake n under any circumstances. * Iranian nuclear facilities have been inspected over 2000 time during the past three years (some surprise inspections) by the IAEA and nothing illegal has been found. The IAEA's report has specified to date, there is no evidence that undeclared material are related to any weapon's programs. * Iran is home to tens of thousands of people affected by Saddam Husain's chemical weapons, and people have a strong feeling against the use of such weapons (I know some of these people personally). * Iran has described the package of incentives from the west as potentially acceptable and announced a while ago that there will be an official and detailed reply by August 22nd, 2006. On the issues related to the local politics, did you know that: * the Taliban are an enemy of Iran and have engaged in regular assassinations of Iranian diplomats. * The Iranian regime considers al-Qa'ideh a terrorist organization. * Iranians held night long vigils to commemorate the victims of 9/11. * Iran does not support the Shiite extremist Moqtada al-Sadr, and prefers peace, stability, and democratic elections in Iraq because it does not wish its own Kurdish population to aspire to separatist ideas and because a democratic election in Iraq will give a prominent role to the Iraqi Shiites. * According to all major historians of the region, in reality, Iran exercises little influence on the Hezbollah. On the social and cultural front, did you know: * the latest best-selling titles in Iran are the DaVinci Code and Hillary Clinton's My life in (Persian translation) * according to the latest statistics, close to 70% of the Iranian university students are women * IVF, and gamete donation, as well as transsexual operations are legal in Iran. * Iranian cinema produces critically acclaimed films (often openly critical of the regime). * Iranian women golfers, race car drivers, and polo players compete internationally. I hope my next messages will be much shorter. Please let me know if you wish your name to be ! taken off this list, or
Re: [Biofuel] Window on Iran
even when things are so very sad. That is an unshakable faith in people. Conditions will change and evil will cease to reign, and man will be a brother to man, not a wolf as is the case today. My forbearance derives not from my fancy, but rather from my clear vision of the cause which give rise to evil.” Those words were written in prison on December 15, 1913 by Felix Dzierzhynski, (1877-1926), who is best known as the first head of the Soviet Cheka, or Soviet security police, the forerunner of the KGB. Spreading fear in a time of chaos, the Cheka was the perfect instrument for Stalin's ruthless consolidation of power and extermination of opposition. Dzierzhynski made Robespierre look like a pansy, being responsible for the murder of literally millions of people. */Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Yup, just gotta love those Iranians! The way they treat the Ba'hais is model for how to respect other's beliefs and rights. What's a little murder, torture and intolerance? http://www.bahai.org/article-1-8-3-14.html And let's not even talk about Iranian Jews... http://www.uga.edu/bahai/2003/030310-1.html Kirk McLoren wrote: War is the plan - an election is coming up. Manipulation of the news in the US is the norm not the exception. The frightening part is how most Americans are not incensed by the manipulation. Kirk From: Fatemeh Keshavarz Sent: Aug 2, 2006 6:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Window on Iran Dear Friends, In the past few months, the U.S. media coverage of Iran has gone from bad to unbelievable. It used to emphasize the negative and leave out the positive. It now appears to be inventing information that those of us in close contact with Iran are unable to trace. For example, in May 2006 there was a report in the papers here that the Iranian Jews will be forced to wear a uniform. Last weekend, another breaking news was: Ahmadinejad is imposing a ban on the use of foreign words. There is no truth to either of these (I won't list more). Some of us in the Iranian American community feel that, due to the explosive conditions in the Middle East, we must provide our American friends and family members with possibility of access to reliable inform! ation, small as its impact might be. This is why I have put this e-mail update together to keep you informed of events in contemporary Iran. Its frequency would be once a week -- unless there is significant breaking news. I have made contact with friends who will monitor the news in Iran, and I will try to follow reliable publications here. Needless to say, I will not be able to be comprehensive. If you feel you don't need these updates, please let me know to take you off the list. If you wish to check how informed you might be about Iran, take a look at the following questions: On the issue of the Iranian nuclear program, did you know that: * The Iranian supreme religious leader issued a legal decree (fatwa) on November 6, 2004 in which all development, production, and use of nuclear weapons is considered against the Islamic pr! inciples and should not be undertake n under any circumstances. * Iranian nuclear facilities have been inspected over 2000 time during the past three years (some surprise inspections) by the IAEA and nothing illegal has been found. The IAEA's report has specified to date, there is no evidence that undeclared material are related to any weapon's programs. * Iran is home to tens of thousands of people affected by Saddam Husain's chemical weapons, and people have a strong feeling against the use of such weapons (I know some of these people personally). * Iran has described the package of incentives from the west as potentially acceptable and announced a while ago that there will be an official and detailed reply by August 22nd, 2006. On the issues related to the local politics, did you know that: * the Taliban are an enemy of Iran and have engaged in regular assassinations of Iranian diplomats. * The Iranian regime considers al-Qa'ideh a terrorist organization. * Iranians held night long vigils to commemorate the victims of 9/11. * Iran does not support the Shiite extremist Moqtada al-Sadr, and prefers peace, stability, and democratic elections in Iraq because it does not wish its own Kurdish population to aspire to separatist ideas and because a democratic election in Iraq will give a prominent role to the Iraqi Shiites
[Biofuel] End of the Right?
The End Of the Right? By E. J. Dionne Jr. http://projects.washingtonpost.com/staff/email/e.+j.+dionne+jr./ Friday, August 4, 2006; Page A17 Is conservatism finished? What might have seemed an absurd question less than two years ago is now one of the most important issues in American politics. The question is being asked -- mostly quietly but occasionally publicly -- by conservatives themselves as they survey the wreckage of their hopes, and as their champions in the Republican Party use any means necessary to survive this fall's elections. Conservatism is an honorable disposition that, in its modern form, is inspired by the philosophy developed by Edmund Burke in the 18th century. But as a contemporary American movement, conservatism is rooted intellectually in the 1950s and the circles around William F. Buckley Jr. and National Review magazine. It rose politically with Barry Goldwater's campaign in 1964. Conservatism was always a delicate balancing act between small-government economic libertarians and social traditionalists who revered family, faith and old values. The two wings were often held together by a common enemy, modern liberalism certainly, but even more so by communism until the early 1990s, and now by what some conservatives call Islamofascism. President Bush, his defenders say, has pioneered a new philosophical approach, sometimes known as big-government conservatism. The most articulate defender of this position, the journalist Fred Barnes, argues that Bush's view is Hamiltonian as in Alexander, Thomas Jefferson's rival in the early republic. Bush's strategy, Barnes says, is to use government as a means to achieve conservative ends. Kudos to Barnes for trying bravely to make sense of what to so many others -- including some in conservative ranks -- seems an incoherent enterprise. But I would argue that this is the week in which conservatism, Hamiltonian or not, reached the point of collapse. The most obvious, outrageous and unprincipled spasm occurred last night when the Senate voted on a bill that would have simultaneously raised the minimum wage and slashed taxes on inherited wealth. Rarely has our system produced a more naked exercise in opportunism than this measure. Most conservatives oppose the minimum wage on principle as a form of government meddling in the marketplace. But moderate Republicans in jeopardy this fall desperately wanted an increase in the minimum wage. So the seemingly ingenious Republican leadership, which dearly wants deep cuts in the estate tax, proposed offering nickels and dimes to the working class to secure billions for the rich. Fortunately, though not surprisingly, the bill failed. The episode was significant because it meant Republicans were acknowledging that they would not hold congressional power without the help of moderates. That is because there is nothing close to a conservative majority in the United States. Yet their way of admitting this was to put on display the central goal of the currently dominant forces of politics: to give away as much as possible to the truly wealthy. You wonder what those blue-collar conservatives once known as Reagan Democrats made of this spectacle. Last night's shenanigans were merely a symptom. Consider other profound fissures within the right. There is an increasingly bitter debate over whether it made any sense to wage war in Iraq in the hopes of transforming that country into a democracy. Conservatives with excellent philosophical credentials, including my colleague George F. Will, and Bill Buckley himself, see the enterprise as profoundly unconservative. On immigration, the big-business right and culturally optimistic conservatives square off against cultural pessimists and conservatives who see porous borders as a major security threat. On stem cell research, libertarians battle conservatives who have serious moral and religious doubts about the practice -- and even some staunch opponents of abortion break with the right-to-life movement on the issue. On spending . . . well, on spending, incoherence and big deficits are the order of the day. Writing in National Review in May, conservatives Kate O'Beirne and Rich Lowry had one word to describe the Republican Congress's approach to the matter: Incontinence. In that important essay, O'Beirne and Lowry argued that the relevant question for conservatives may not be Can this Congress be saved? but Is it worth saving? Political movements lose power when they lose their self-confidence and sense of mission. Liberalism went into a long decline after 1968 when liberals clawed at each other more than they battled conservatives -- and when they began to wonder whether their project was worth salvaging. Between now and November, conservative leaders will dutifully try to rally the troops to stave off a Democratic victory. But their hearts won't be in the fight. The decline of
