Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo?
My company has been doing some testing with regard to shelf life of Biodiesel. This driven mainly by the debate going on between European and North American standards bodies. ASTM 6571 does not address fuel stability, but the European tests for stability will really only pass BD made from Rapeseed. Enough on that though, the question at hand is shelf life. The findings that we have are that BD does more readily oxidize than petrol diesel. So if left in a open container the shelf life is very short. It will still burn after oxidized but not nearly as well. On the other, most of us would be storing our BD in a sealed container, which limits the oxidation to the amount of air and surface area. The best thing to do is to store it in a sealed container that is as full as practically possible. This limits oxidation to a level that probably won't be noticeable. Of course, if you really want to keep it a long time you can displace the air in the container with nitrogen and then it will keep for a long time, this is something of course that only the military would consider. Hope this helps. Doug Memering Keith Addison wrote: Who is putting about mis- or disinfo that biodiesel has a very short shelf-life? We keep getting enquiries from people who seem to think so. Does the biodiesel have a shelf life? Or: I read somewhere that biodesil has a short shelf life. And so on and on and on. Somewhere, hm. Any ideas where this BS is coming from? Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Re: Re: A beginners titration question
Jan, Thanks for the help. Hello Doug. Keith has made an excellent input to you questions but I felt it necessary to add some aspects of your problem: The rule no1 when taking samples is to make sure - as possible- that the sample is representative for the batch. This sounds simple, but if you are I am still working with fairly small batches so I have been drawing the complete batch out of my holding tank and then taking the test sample from that. I have been titrating that batch multiple times and getting the variation even from that. dealing with high water content together with high FFA levels you will have Does water content itself cause variation or is it changes in the amount of water content that would cause the variation in the titration? different titration values if sampled from the top or from the bottom. If there are detergents in the oil, this actually may help. It is a Detergents? What's the likelihood of picking up detergents in the WVO from a restaurant? Is this something I should watch for or is it simply a matter of more washing? disadvantage when washing the biodiesel though. By using IPA for titration, the general idea is to have one clear phase consisting from IPA, water, KOH (or NaOH) and oil. The EN standard for determination of acid number which is likewise determined by titration strongly recommends that the amount of IPA should be increased if the solution becomes cloudy or turbid. The solution was definitely turbid, but Keith's recommendation (unlike James Bond) was to do the test in a beaker or jar rather than a test tube so that it could be stirred and not shaken By using methanol for titration, you are out of standard procedure. When I started out I got a titration procedure from another site, before I found JTF. The procedures were nearly identical except in the list of what you needed it said to use either Isopropyl, Ethyl, or Methyl. Since I had already invested in a bunch of Methyl alcohol for this adventure and didn't have any isopropyl on hand I started using it. My limited college chemistry had me in the frame of mind that a solvent is a solvent. That's why I asked for an explanation. I can see where the my results could be shifted by what alcohol I am using but it didn't make sense to me that the type of alcohol would cause the huge variation in the test. And - possibly annoying Keith - the EN requirement for a good titration is that the solution stays magenta for at least 15 seconds. This was happening, there was a distinctive cross-over point where the solution would turn magenta for like 10 seconds and then fade to pink. It is just that event happened at substantially different amounts of NaOH. Heating was mentioned as well, and that could be a part of my problem too. I was heating the WVO then mixing it with the alcohol which was at about 95F. I didn't hear the reagent either. I gather they should all be near the process temperature. Thanks again Good luck to you further on ! With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Re: CUMMINS B5.9TD
Dear Doug, I didnt catch what year ctd you were talking about, but I have a 98 24 valve that I have been running a 50-50 blend for about a year. Is this bad for the vp-44 even if the fuel is dry? dear doug, i I, personally, (keep in mind this is NOT Cummins talking here) would not say it is bad, but we have seen some parts wearing faster than normal on engines run with B10 and higher. It is long term problem, we are talking about getting only 700,000 miles instead of 800,000 miles as an example. So you kind of need to decide for yourself if that is bad. The water and good quality fuel would still be my number one concern with the vp44. Tolerances are much tighter on that system than they were on earlier ones and a little bit of corrosion internally can give trouble. Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Question on sources of supplies
Hello, I have been making small batches of biodiesel and feel that I am ready to scale up. However I have encountered a fairly major stumbling block in finding a source for the methanol and the NaOH. I have tried local chemical supply companies and gotten the response that they can only sell to licensed companies. I have looked at the page on journeytofoerver that talks about where to purchase the supplies and found only items related to methanol. I did not see anything about the NaOH. Did I miss it somewhere? Thanks for you help Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Re: CUMMINS B5.9TD
Any of which can be replaced on an as needed basis. Terry's mechanic should be a little more specific with him, rather than issuing a sweeping and perhaps unsupported statement. Perhaps I can shed some light on this topic, as I am an engineer at Cummins Inc, and work in Fuel System Development. Officially, Cummins supports Biodiesel blends up to B5 or 5% Biodiesel. There are several concerns the company has with higher ratio blends. There are three major areas of concerns that the company has. These are mostly commercial concerns which will be evident as I explain them any of which an individual could deal with by being aware and careful about what they put into their tank. First, while biodiesel is touted as being cleaner, there are some caveats. While the particulate emissions (the ones you can see) are considerably improved with biodiesel, the NOx emmission will increase and the higher the biodiesel ratio the higher the NOx increases. Up to B5 the increase will not likely move the engine's NOx emissions beyond the federal limit, but B20 and higher will likely move the NOx emissions outside of the box. Since the US tends to hold the manufacturers repsonsible for the emissions of the engines instead of the users the company must maintain a strict policy against recommending or accepting fuels that will violate the regulations. Second, biodiesel has a lower heating value than Petro diesel, therefore the higher the biodiesel blend the lower the available power from the engine. Most vehicles with B5.9 diesel are substantially overpowered so the driver may not notice the 2% loss of power with a B5 blend, but it will become more noticeable as the ratio is increased. As I said many of the vehicles, especially pickups are overpowered for the job they do, so you it would likely not be bothered unless you are street racing or pulling a large (heavy) trailer through the mountains. But once again as a company Cummins is in the position that if the sell a 305 Hp engine and the customers tend to expect to get 305 Hp regardless of what fuel they chose to put in the tank. The third and more serious concern for us homegrown biodieselers, in my opinion, is water. Most tanks collect water, many vehicles are equipped with water separation filters to protect the fuel system components. The problem is the biodiesel has a higher affinity for water than petrol diesel, so the biodiesel is going to carry the water out of the tank. Furthermore, the water separators that are normally used will NOT extract the water from biodiesel so the water gets carried into the fuel system. Most modern fuel systems are very sensitive to water. The engine will run initially but the internal fuel system components will quickly corrode which will lead to a fuel system failure, and usually an expensive one. The company is also concerned about the quality of the biodiesel coming on the market. They have a wide variety from some very high quality to some very poor quality and currently there are no recognized quality standard that the commercial producers are going by. There are other concerns with blending biodiesel with the coming Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD). It has a few challenges to overcome but I will not go into the details here. With all that said, my personal observation (not the view of Cummins) is that if you pay attention to what you are putting in your tank qaulity wise. You make sure that it is dry. Then you should not have any problems with the fuel system of the age mentioned. The timing does not need to be changed in order for the engine run, however you will be producing more NOx than you were with petrodiesel. You will likely see degradation of non metal lines in the fuel system and you have to replace all of them at some point. Return lines are probably the first ones you will notice. I believe most vehicles run steel lines for the supply lines from the tank to the engine. I am brewing my own biodiesel and running it in my 94 Cummins 5.9L diesel and I intend to eventually run on straight biodiesel. I know the risks and will watch things carefully. I hope this helps Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
