[Biofuel] HAPPY 2006 AND FRUITFUL NEW YEAR

2005-12-31 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Dear Biofuel list´s members, my research team members, and my beloved Biofuel list leader KEith

It is my deepest will and pleasure that everyone of you enjoy a 
happy and fruitful new year 2006, seeing biomass based rural eco friendly technology taking 
off to playing relevant role in today and tomorrow´senergy 
shares bringing light and prosperity to the the darken area of the rural world.Let us all join for hand to make the colaborative work for the same.

Kindest regards.Pannirselvam--  Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQGrupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil
Residence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557
Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular8488145083
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Re: [Biofuel] ethanol distillation

2005-11-24 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Helow Jonathan
 
 Water distillation is mainly concerned with evaporation and then condensation water vapor evaporated, where as alcohol still need to selectively seperate low volatile etanol using heat ,as well as can condense selectively the ethanol and hence need 
column.Thus water distiller can be mainly smalltank type ,less condensation problem ,where as ethanol still is column.Hence tey need to be diffrent in design , eventhouh they all envolve similar process as you outlined. We here do like the design for small scale equipment for sustainable biofuel process 
developments.using air as coolant and then recover the energy for drying can be possible ,but yet taht type of noval distillation units need to evolved .You can try one taht can save the huge energy cost of ethanol as one need 5 Kg of steam for every 1 l of ethanol.


sd
Pannirselvam P.V
On 11/23/05, Jonathan Schearer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I have a question for the group. Would a water distiller like the kind found at www.waterdistiller.com
 be similar to an alcohol still? Usually an alcohol still has a column and uses water as the coolant for the condenser. These water distillers use a coil that is air cooled. 


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-- Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQCentro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular8488145083 
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Re: [Biofuel] Jatropha Curcas

2005-10-31 Thread Pannirselvam P.V

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 wrote:We are thinking of planting Jatropha Curcas trees  using earthworms tocompost waste, the compost we get from the wormswe will use for the Jatropha trees.This URL has a very good article on jatropha's benefits as a fuel
and for other things.http://www.ecoworld.org/Home/Articles2.cfm?TID=356http://www.ecowor
ld.org/Home/Articles2.cfm?TID=356Europe Adopts Biodiesel CAN AN AFRICAN BEAN CRACKEUROPE'S BIODIESEL BLOCKAGE? By Candida Jones A row ofJatropha trees - plants with potential to alleviate fuel shortages
Editor's Note: Jatropha is an example of a plant that could begrowneven if it didn't yield biofuel. It is useful for restoring soil,combatting desertification, and providing fertilizer. It requiresminimal inputs of water and grows in extremely poor soil.
Any plant that is a cash crop anyway and costs almost nothing togrowcan't be a bad candidate for an economically viable biofuel.(See URL above for the rest.)___
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http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/--  Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN
Departamento de Engenharia Qu’mica - DEQCentro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de P—s Gradua‹o em Engenharia Qu’mica - PPGEQGrupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universit‡rio
CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210
32171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557
Cellular8488145083

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Re: [Biofuel] Plastic solar cells using reused plastics and biofuel making

2005-10-16 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
 Hi Joe, Keith and ALL 
 
 The reuse of Plastics
(PET) after adequate thermal treatment  has been showed to
be very good charge transport used successfully
together with conventional silicon PV system reducing
the cost and may possible to be home made ..
Thus significative cost reduction has been made by this system by
the research done in Brasil..We are starting our research
to work on this novel system to be used to heat the BioD
reactor to make simple heating bio oil fuel to be used in rural
areas .This oil will be to be used with novel biofuel
dried oil solid /stove designed with hih temperature combustion
with lower fuel consumption to be used in remote por
village as an alternate to ethanol solid gel fuel  and wish
to have collaboration from our list members for colaborative research
and development as this is our Master cousre research study
for 2006 and 2008.Any novel ideas from experiencied are welcome as we
are very new to some systems and the system integration 

We wish to share our master student Johnson experience with you
 who has 4 year practical experience to make the reused
polymer PV system for small scale electrical PV system in Brasil
, who have demonstrated the device in natcional and
international fair and has owned the award for
the best product in national level

 We have already made
good progress in the design work of these three system , yet need
collaboration to implement our system as this need low
investments and reuse of waste to get both electricity, liquid and
solid fuel as 50 percent of our state people live with out
electricity and have green future .

 Can Keith can bring here about anyone work using solar PV
for BioD making any where? This can make our debate here
much more dynamic and alive . His words is always very
effective catalyst to move any topic good or bad to the
positive collaborative constructional path towards a good journey for
all our list members , bringing to us the latest innovative
biofuel related projects to make our work more practical , less failure
and lees work for all of us.
Thanking Keith in advance ,for his dedicated hard work to reply almost all post and also for his reply to this post too..
 
 As our list is the only list of heterogenius one , so we
can be the wining team fo the truely globalised biofuel and rural
sustained development and I wish the proposed system design
need not limited to our small group which is in the
less developed north east of Brazil , but as the best system
to address the fuel crisis in all rural area of our
globlazied one country of our planet.

sd
Pannirselvam 
Brasil 

sd
Pannirselvam 

 On 10/14/05, Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well yes I guess you could say an increase in efficiency from 3 to 4.4 %is almost a 50% increase. That IS dramatic but what is it ol' foghornleghorn used to say? .two half nothin's is a whole nuthin. LOLStill vacumm deposited aluminum for a cathode is cheap and lends itself
nicely to mass production as does indium tin oxide or zinc oxide whichforms the transparent conductor for the anode.The problem is in thepolymer with charge transport.Of course a breakthrough could be right
around the corner who knows?If we ever get above 10% efficiency with aproduction process this cheap it will be a happy day!JoeSnip Accordingto the team, slow growth allows the polymer to self-organize,
a process that dramatically boosts device efficiency.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
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--  Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQCentro de Tecnologia - CT
Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQGrupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :
AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 
residencia 32171557
Cellular8488145083
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Re: [Biofuel] plastic solar cell update

2005-10-13 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
 Dear Paul 


 We are very glad to inform that we are able to use
natural ruber as matrix and natural fiber coconut coir to
make felxible plastic products. In this regrad our group list
member from Malyasia Manick Harris has helped us a lot. We
also able to make regid plastic fiberglass
reinforced poliester using natural fiber cashew net
shell liquid replacing 40 porcent of poliester and 100
porcent fiberglass and we hope this process can also work
with Hemp . Our small research group is very
thankful to Keith and our list members who are able to give
us the useful information.

Thanking you

Pannirselvam

































On 10/12/05, Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And if they could make the plastic out of hemp, it would really reduce
the need for oil when they get mass-produced. Would lower COP,
make them more sustainable, renewable and biodegradable.

I am sitting here at my desk wondering why my TI calculator has a solar brick of 4 cells and my cell phone does not...

Most grocery bags are #4 LDPE. That's low density polyethylene, which is a cheap plastic.

Source: www.designinsite.dk
Production of 1 kg of LDPE requires the equivalent of about 2 kg of oil (raw material and energy)


On 10/12/05, Alt.EnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
Plastic solar powerGroup invents cells that could decrease cost of energy, if they last-- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch

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--  Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQCentro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557
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Re: [Biofuel] Cheap and easy filtering of WVO

2005-10-02 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Hi Hal
Thank  for showing the very nice good picture and your very good work.

 Some filter aids use on the cloth and some height like cofee filter can improve the filteration quality.

 In the case of the crude oils , the impurity of small colloidal particles act as the filterationmaking possibleto get the the very clear oil .

Thanking you

sd
Pannirselvam 
Brasil
On 9/29/05, hal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thought you folks might enjoy a cheap filtering technique we've been using forseveral months.
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-halspersonalpages___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
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-- Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQCentro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular8488145083 
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Re: [Biofuel] Question about E85

2005-09-17 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
 Helow angela , Brasil government and petroleium
compny is using etanol in gasoline depending on
the availabilty for tha car made for gasoline upto 18
porcent of 95 porcent bioethanol made from sugar cane
for the tropical climate .You need to bother about room
temperature as this may lead to starting problem of the car.
Brazilian car have been improved to over come this problems.
Plenty of information available in JTF biofuel web page and also
in our list.

Yours truely
Pannirselvam P V P





























































































































































































































Y
On 9/15/05, Angela Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





Does anyone know if anything has to be done to the fuel system
if you're planning on running E-85 in your vehicle? I have heard
conflicting stories. I have a 2001 Chevy Impala that I would fill
up with E85. I've been using 10% Ethanol with no problems.

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Angela Cook

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--  Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQCentro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557
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Re: [Biofuel] Why our current agriculture and food production is not sustainable

2005-09-17 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Very good paper on sustainability, foo and fuel production.
Keith we here in our list need to make the
sustainable biofuel project as an alternate to
the big business corporate. we need here to integrate the
projects BioD, Ethanol, Biogas and wood gas projects for rural industry.

 More infomation is lacking in this field of integrated biofuel use for rural industry.

Yours truely

Pannirselvam 
Brasil.







On 9/16/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The Institute of Science in SocietyScience Society Sustainabilityhttp://www.i-sis.org.ukThis article can be found on the I-SIS website at
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/PFSFSNG.phpISIS Press Release 14/09/05Policies for Sustainable Food Systems, National and GlobalMichael MeacherWhy our current agriculture and food production is not sustainable
There are five reasons why our current food system is notsustainable. First, the increasingly mechanised agriculture dependson oil, but the supply of oil is beginning to run out, or at leasthalf of the 2 trillion barrels of oil available has already been used
and oil demand from China, India and other major developing countrieswhich are industrialising fast is rising so sharply that productioncannot keep up with demand, and permanent shortages of oil will kickin within a decade or less. The price of oil will escalate to
$100-$200+, and oil-driven food production will sharply decline.Second, the growing shortage of water means that half a billionpeople now already live in water-stressed areas, and the UN expectsthis to rise 5-6 fold to half the world population by 2025. This will
lead to massive shifts of populations and water wars. Frankly, thecurrent use of water in agriculture is extravagant and utterlyunsustainable. For example, US prairie farmers and East Anglianbarley barons need 1 000 tonnes of water to produce 1 tonne of grain,
plus 1 000 energy units are used for every 1 energy unit of processedfood. That is just not sustainable.Third, the intensification of climate change has led to a ten-foldincrease in the incidence and ferocity of climatic catastrophes in
the past 40 years. These include major-scale hurricanes, cyclones,floods, as well as increasing drought, desertification,inextinguishable forest fires, which are now rendering more and morecroplands unusable or infertile. Half a billion of the world
population now do not have croplands on which they can maintainthemselves. The latest UN report says one sixth of countries in theworld (up to 30 nations) now face food shortages because of climatechange. The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine estimates
160 000 now die every year from climate-change induced malnutrition,dysentery and malaria.Fourth, the loss of biodiversity from monocultures imposed byindustrialised farming, not least GM crops. A quarter of the world's
GM crops are grown in Argentina, where huge areas were cleared togrow GM soya, especially Argentina's pampas, previously one of themost organically productive areas in the world.Fifth, long-distance transportation of food across the world is
incompatible with the requirement to reduce greenhouse gas emissionsby 60 percent by 2050. Between 1968-88, world food productionincreased 84 percent and the world population 91 percent, but worldfood trade increased 184 percent (
i.e. doubled), yet planes and carsare the fastest rising causes of greenhouse gas emissions. To putthat in household terms – a typical UK family of four emits per year4 tonnes of CO2 from the house, 4 tonnes from the car, but 8 tonnes
from production, processing, packaging and distribution of the foodthey eat.So what should be done?I have five proposals. First, we need a massive switch from highlymechanised, pesticide-driven agriculture to low- input/organic
agriculture with energy saving up to 10- fold. How? The current foodsystem is linear in design, treating inputs like energy and rawmaterials as infinitely available (which they are not) and theenvironment as infinitely capable of absorbing waste (which it is
not). This is not sustainable. To change this, we need a tax systemthat factors in the full cost of all these finite items and uses theproceeds to subsidise organic, low input and localised agriculturesystems. In contrast, organic production systems are an example of
sustainable circular methods of food production in harmony with thenatural eco-system. Is this happening? Well, although sales oforganic food in the UK have quadrupled from £260 million in 1997 toover £1 billion now, the one million acres now devoted to organic
production is still only 2-3% of agricultural land in the UK.Second, developing a sustainable food system should become a majorGovernment policy based on setting targets for:Sustainable food production
Import substitutionFair tradeLocal sourcing of foodThese targets are to be achieved within specific timescales. TheGovernment's Organic Action Plan Group, which I chaired, did set atarget to increase the percentage of organic food consumed in 

Re: [Biofuel] Alcohol:Food vs fuel

2005-09-12 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
 Dear Manick

 Here in Brasil we have E95 running and
this can be impoted to any country who wish to develop and
adopt the same in other country as well as flexivel ethanol
and gasoline car

 We need to come out here in this
list here to arrive ata a simple workable
design and then there are several university ,
Ghandhi gram rural university. Madurai south India vice
chancellar Dr T.Karunakaran can make it reality as the present
central government came to power to suport rural mass.

sd
Pannirselvam 
Brazil
On 9/12/05, Manick Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hello Dr.Pannirselvam/Subramaniam,
I read that many small scale enterprises are encouraged in India,
with tax exemption. If project funding can be arranged somewhere in
Chennai or any other suitable place with proper allowances I could come
there tohelp outin ethanolof ethanol and wood
pyrolysis. Or perhaps as special Institute/ College project
where we won't be harassed by petty officials out for quick buck. With
engines modified to run on E85 and wood spirit.Once project is finished
I'll return to Penang.LOL
Manickh

subramanian D.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Dear Mr. PanneerSelvam,
I've been reading your inputs to this forum quite for sometime and
your enthusiasm is really contagious! but there are problems for
individuals for producing alcohol. 
The process is simple enough for small scale (back yard)
production which you recommend. raw material such as sweet sorghum and
sugar beet can be grown ; the economics of production is well known to
those in the field. Special strains of sweet sorghum are available in
National Research Institutes in Hyderabad, as well as at Indian
Institute of Agricultural Research . But.
The moment I announce that I'm going to make my own fuel ( for
personal use) half a dozen Govt agencies will raid my place !
Production of ethyl alcohol isnot possible without Govt license
(which is not easy to get for an individual), payment of several duties
and taxes and bribes on the side. 
Even if the farmers make alcohol on the sly, on second thoughts
they would rather drink it than use for fuel. You know the types in
India.
On the commercial scale Indian Sugar Mills Assocn have half a
million litres of surplus ethanol forE05 in the whole country but
then theIndian oil corporation is still dragging its feet issuing
purchase tenders for ethanol. 
So these are the ground realities here. Still I keep hoping it will change in due course.

Regards,

Subramanian


Pannirselvam P.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dear Manick 
I am native of South India.It is very true that Malaysia and
India,the fuel alcohol can be mis used as the drinks. Brazil ,
where I live now ,here too are making alcohol for
local consume and exportation as the alcoholic
drinks and fuel made from sugarcane and fruits as both are the needs
In south India where there is always power cut
expected more than 30 porcent  , locally made
distilled home made alcohol, the municipal government can
buy and use for transport and power generation. You are showing the
real problem of corrupt practice there .Thus local use of
ethanol for fuel  instead of commercial use can solve
the powercut there.This is need decentralised development of
municipality.Only private company need to do all , under
corrupted some political party not bothered about
real problem of energy development.
Based on traditional local home made alcohol , India can
produce as much as Brazil (2 bilhoes liter of
alcohol for food and fuel) and can solve the energy crisis.The farmer
need to put light in the night and make plantation in India where
as the farmer from USA, France and Europe has
government financial help.Manick , surely India and
can make possible the home made decentralised
bio ethanol that thus make using pot , to put in their
small motorised bicycle , thus making them
independent to get away the poverty and all corrupted
petroleum business , which is the root cause of the poverty,
making people dependence on imported fuel that they can not pay. I wish to request Keith to
publish via our list members from India about the low cost pot
distillation, as this so simple and low cost ,any one can made
fuel in their home based on this pot made tradicional alcohol
which had made and making making story of so many
tragedy and death of alcohol addiction .But this bad story can be
made to be real a solution for the energy crysis sdPannirselvam  
On 9/10/05, Manick Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote: 

Tq Chris,
My reason for posting is to stimulate interestto convince
other group members to undertake ethanol and power generation
projects.I am not in a position to dothem here in Malaysia or
India, countries full of skull-duggering and dangerof losing all
the investment due to fraudulent practices by the unscrupulous, without
recourse to justice. I could give pages and pages of bad business
ethics. It is very bad here which is the main reason this country is in
languishing thedoldrums. The best I can do is to convince

Re: [Biofuel] Rural energy problem nad Big oil

2005-09-11 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Dear Subramanian 

 Thank you very much for bringing here the real problems there in India 
Every where the oil companies are against the renewable
energy.The problem is the very big countries such as India
, china , Brazil need not follow the model of the
other countries expecting oil companies will solve the
rural problems.

 Here in Brazil in the Amazonian rain forest area the
diesel price is 8 times more than in the other place.In
rural area of the India farmer need to plant rice in the night.
some place more than 50 percent of the
population do not know TV and what the energy.In India the
energy is given to many and make energy cut .India can
never become developed country with energy cut .

If you have well followed regularly our list members
thinking , the Keith our list coordinator
effort is not to separate the political , technical ,
economical problems related with bio fuel.

If you are not able to help the small farmer to produce their
energy , most of the younger well qualified PhD from
IIT will go to the country where there is energy such as Newzealand,
Australia They will be pushed to work in the decentralised
small cogeneration unit making fuel, food , feed from
biomass .
This has happened to my life and my professor and friend
from IIT Delhi are very proud that the best Biochemical
engineering graduate from IIT  all have got employment in other
countries , but this is not sustainable for India as the bio oil
company do not care nothing for the same.

 Making one fuel for farmer need cannot be considered as
crime as very well debated here for very long time and
several farmers make here in Brazil alcohol and sell to oil
using microdistillary too in Brazil and they fill the car too at their
own risk.This also true for BioD.
Our list the biggest dynamic list in internet.Why ? Here we
make debate on complex subject to arrive at practical and
simple solution.Thus biofuel use to indian farmer can be
solved by methods well documented by Keith 

Biofuel at Journey to Forever (JTF)http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

 
You know very well that the government in India is notable to stop illegal alcohol production .
People , like you need to put make E10 AND BIOD and put in motor
BIKES , CAR AND SEE THE SUSTAINABILITY rather
than expecting Indian oil corporation and Indian government will
solve the problems.

 See Keith work in JTF files , showing all home made
decentralised , self help work is possible with fotos
bringing here the international experience and I agree with you
that this biofuel not the solution for all the place.As
thr education and democracy work, I am sure that
India is moving correctly in this fields and wish the younger well
educated generation change the poverty and food
problems due energy crisis.The country has research on Bullock
cart in this decades, surel can set examples too decentralised biofuel
production especially in rural areas.
There in india if the chief ministers of the states are
winning the election by the promise of free power for farmer , they
should also bother about making the law first to get
away the nergy problems , other wise the future will be dark for
all there.Thus the problem is sustainablity and also the
problem is the same as many developed and under developed one.

Dear subramaniam you can help a lot , if you invite Keith there ,
make seminars , you see the The energy block out , energy crysis
solved by the farmers 



Thanking you 



 

sd
Pannirselvam



 On 9/11/05, subramanian D.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Mr. PanneerSelvam,
I've been reading your inputs to this forum quite for sometime and
your enthusiasm is really contagious! but there are problems for
individuals for producing alcohol. 
The process is simple enough for small scale (back yard)
production which you recommend. raw material such as sweet sorghum and
sugar beet can be grown ; the economics of production is well known to
those in the field. Special strains of sweet sorghum are available in
National Research Institutes in Hyderabad, as well as at Indian
Institute of Agricultural Research . But.
The moment I announce that I'm going to make my own fuel ( for
personal use) half a dozen Govt agencies will raid my place !
Production of ethyl alcohol isnot possible without Govt license
(which is not easy to get for an individual), payment of several duties
and taxes and bribes on the side. 
Even if the farmers make alcohol on the sly, on second thoughts
they would rather drink it than use for fuel. You know the types in
India.
On the commercial scale Indian Sugar Mills Assocn have half a
million litres of surplus ethanol forE05 in the whole country but
then theIndian oil corporation is still dragging its feet issuing
purchase tenders for ethanol. 
So these are the ground realities here. Still I keep hoping it will change in due course.

Regards,

Subramanian


Pannirselvam P.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dear Manick 
I am native of South India.It is very true that Malaysia

[Biofuel] Alcohol:Food vs fuel

2005-09-10 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
 Dear Manick 

 I am native of South India.It is very true
that Malaysia and India,the fuel alcohol can be mis used as the
drinks. Brazil , where I live now ,here too are
making alcohol for local consume and exportation
as the alcoholic drinks and fuel made from sugarcane and
fruits as both are the needs
 In south India where there is always
power cut expected more than 30 porcent 
, locally made distilled home made alcohol, the municipal
government can buy and use for transport and power generation. You are
showing the real problem of corrupt practice there .Thus
local use of ethanol for fuel  instead of commercial use
can solve the powercut there.This is need decentralised
development of municipality.Only private company need to do all ,
under corrupted some political party not bothered
about real problem of energy development.

 Based on traditional local home made alcohol , India
can produce as much as Brazil (2 bilhoes liter
of alcohol for food and fuel) and can solve the energy crisis.The
farmer need to put light in the night and make plantation in India
where as the farmer from USA, France and Europe
has government financial help.

Manick , surely India and can make possible the
home made decentralised bio ethanol that thus make using
pot , to put in their small motorised bicycle , thus making
them independent to get away the poverty and all
corrupted petroleum business , which is the root cause of
the poverty, making people dependence on imported fuel that they can
not pay.

 I wish to request Keith to publish via
our list members from India about the low cost pot distillation, as
this so simple and low cost ,any one can made fuel in their home
based on this pot made tradicional alcohol which had made
and making making story of so many tragedy and death of
alcohol addiction .But this bad story can be made to be real a solution
for the energy crysis 

sd
Pannirselvam 
 On 9/10/05, Manick Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Tq Chris,
My reason for posting is to stimulate interestto convince
other group members to undertake ethanol and power generation
projects.I am not in a position to dothem here in Malaysia or
India, countries full of skull-duggering and dangerof losing all
the investment due to fraudulent practices by the unscrupulous, without
recourse to justice. I could give pages and pages of bad business
ethics. It is very bad here which is the main reason this country is in
languishing thedoldrums. The best I can do is to convince
members that these concepts are viable and that there is great need to
now to find alternatives to petroleum fuels. Cheers 
ManickhChris lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 hey! i just remembered, homebrew champagne makers are cautioned to make  surethat all yeast has been killed before finla bottling, lest continued
fermentation generate so much pressure that it pops the cork. That cannot be right as to do so would leave you with flat champagne, you need the secondary fermentation to make any wine/beer fizzy. Champagne 
bottles have their corks wired on anyway. Chris.Wessex Ferret Clubwww.wessexferretclub.co.uk
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Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557
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Re: [Biofuel] Alcohol:Food vs fuel

2005-09-10 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
 Hellow Keith 



 Thank you very much for your kind reply.

 As Manick is from India , I am going to request him to make foto
of this simple distillation using pot made by poor people of the
soth of India.



 Balaji can be of very much helpful and there are a lot of our list members .



Thanking You

Yours truely

Pannirselvam
On 9/10/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
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Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557
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Re: [Biofuel] Alcohol:Food vs fuel

2005-09-10 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
 

 Hellow Keith Thank you very much for your kind reply.
You're welcome, I hope we manage to do it. As Manick is from India ,As Manick is from Malasia and also he move often there
I have written to him about your dedicated to help all the farmer in the world , the only one such in net.
Doesn't the same thing happen in Brazil too? And in Africa?
Fermentation is the same as you think.But the distillation 
has three pot the bigpot wood fired at the bottom , the intermediate size pot at the top as 
the condensor with water and the small pot
inside big one under the watercondensing pot with some
suport

The foto can make the understandin well .

May be our list members can improve the degin .

The other project I need help from you is to make solid gelbiofuel using the waste from Bio D 
process as this require low cost stoves 

I wish your hard work of JFT the great work
need to have great future , making possible the links of people
via web conference etc so that our journey together possible as I
find JFT is simple useful and practical than many fotologs,
weblogs .

 Let me have the helping hand for your sleepless work

thanking you
yours 
Pannirselvasm
 Balaji can beof very much helpfuland there are a lot of ourlist members .
Yes, lots of Indian members, including many who don't post. They'rewelcome anyway of course, but maybe some of them can help with this.Best wishesKeithThanking You Yours truely
PannirselvamOn 9/10/05, Keith Addisonmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:___Biofuel mailing listmailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
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archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/--Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQGrupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 
59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210
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Re: [Biofuel] Grass for fuel and food

2005-09-07 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
 Helo WOODARD 
 
The maxium photosynthetic is also possible protein is
also production per hector is possible which can be easily
extracted using alkali treatment or Excellent mushroom can be
obtained from this plants. followed by small scale
biogasification or thermal gasification or ethanol production. Here in
Brazil several grass are made survival posssible even in dry
climate.South africa and India where population are mor can
make use of this plant to make fuel and food .



 In our university, the experimental results obtained
recently show a very high prodction of biomass is
obtained usig Elefant grass  by using treated municipal
sewage and hence very good project to make not only fuel but
also protein feed from biomass. Thus small biomass
refinery can be made possible using this elephant grass as
this plant produce the maxium protein from plant source.

 Thank wood , as this plant can reduce well carbon diocxide and hence reduce the climate change .
 

sd
Pannirselvam

On 9/7/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Presumably they could be used for celulose to alcohol processes.I wonder about the invasiveness of miscanthus.
Thanks to Lawrence F. London on the permaculture list.Doug WoodardSt. Catharines, Ontario, Canada-- Forwarded message --
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4220790.stmLast Updated: Wednesday, 7 September 2005, 00:49 GMT 01:49 UKTall grasses set to power EuropeBy Jonathan AmosBBC News science reporter, Dublin
Miscanthus, University of IllinoisMiscanthus: High output for small inputThe fields of Europe could soon take on a shimmering silver colour asfarmers grow giant grasses to try to mitigate the effects of global warming.
The latest studies suggest one form of elephant grass would make aproductive energy crop to be burnt in power stations to generateelectricity.Scientists told a Dublin conference the 4m-high Miscanthus needs little
fertiliser to produce very high yields.A breeding programme would improve its economics still further, they said.There's no reason why in 10 years' time this shouldn't be widelyexploited, commented Professor Mike Jones, an Irish expert on plants
and climate.If we grew Miscanthus on 10% of suitable land in [the 15-member]Europe, then we could generate 9% of the gross electricity production,he told the British Association's Festival of Science.
Hectares and barrelsBurning biomass is broadly neutral in terms of its emissions of carbondioxide, the major gas thought responsible for warming the planet.As the plant grows it is drawing carbon dioxide out of the air,
explained Professor Steve Long, from the University of Illinois. Whenyou burn it, you put that carbon dioxide back, so the net effect onatmospheric CO2 is zero.Whereas, if you take coal out of the ground and burn it, you are adding
a net gain of carbon to the atmosphere.Professor Long has been cultivating a hybrid of two Miscanthus specieson plots in his home state. The project has managed to achieve yields of60 tonnes of dry material per hectare.
This is a considerable improvement on the trials that have beenconducted in Europe, where a typical yield is some 12 tonnes per hectare.But even this lower production provides an energy content equivalent to
about 36 barrels of crude oil. And with a barrel currently priced around$60, such a yield would have a potential value of about $2,160 per hectare.Growing interestBiomass crops have always been viewed as something that can only make a
tiny contribution to mitigating rising carbon dioxide, said Professor Long.The point we want to make is that it could actually make a majorcontribution and it doesn't require big technological breakthroughs to
do that.Farmers are increasingly being drawn to the idea. One of its attractionsis that harvesting takes place at times of the year when machinery innot being used on food crops.Added Professor Jones: This is definitely being taken seriously in the
UK, where the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs is nowfunding a major breeding programme.One farmers' cooperative also plans to cultivate 10,000 hectares forburning over the next three years.
LINKS TO MORE SCIENCE/NATURE STORIESSEE ALSO:Climate food crisis 'to deepen'05 Sep 05 |Science/NatureAsian peat fires add to warming03 Sep 05 |Science/NatureUK 'lagging on biomass potential'
11 May 04 |Science/NatureRELATED INTERNET LINKS:BA Festival of ScienceBA Festival of Science WebcastsTrinity College DublinScience for a Successful IrelandThe BBC is not responsible for the content of external internet sites
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[Biofuel] Journey towards small Biocombustivel for all

2005-09-04 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
We have recently finished Master level postgraduate
study on ethanol production using immobilized yeast
cell using alginate to produce alcohol from fine apple wastes and
coconut waters in laboratory scale .  Instead of operating
the Bio system in a batch mode , fed batch operation can improve
signifigatively the productivity and very thankful for the
members bring this new process .
 Compared to convencional free cell process , the usability of
the fixed yeast cell by support is practicall process for ethanol
production by big company especially in Japan and USA due to high
productivity.

This new Bio process with high productivity can be adopted
to farmer level for the Bio ethanol production even in
dryer area using sweet sorghum as very well documented in the
following excellent study from China 

http://www.fao.org/docrep/T4470E/t4470e07.htm

Compared to alginate the use ofvthe natural latex is more
practical for small farmer use .More over the long self life of
the yeast that can be activated using air can
make the procees very great and simple to reducing the time 

 Our biofuel list member can make this new
inovative bio process combined with the extractive fermentation
using vegetable castor  and flash evaporation using solar energy
to make the ethanol fuel for rural population bio fuel to be less
energy intensive as this is negative side of the biofuel production
process.

 The most of the rural people in developing country spent
30 percent of the their income for buying the cooking gas for the
fuel.Making their own fuel can make them free from money lending pr and
hence the bioethanol has a lot of role to play and all the member here
too towards the sustainable globalization.

 Let the members in our list who has
experience join here , share and exchange the same so that
the one in the remote area in all the world  too can
have the jouney to make the bioethanol anda BioD to be simple
and practical for the great green future There is no
need for the war and dependence for the limited non
renewable petroleum and big refinery as all of us need
food, fuel and peace .

Pannir Selvam
Brasil




On 9/3/05, Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Keith ;This is a great idea and link!!Thanks.Best Regards,Peter G.Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
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Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
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Re: [Biofuel] B100 and jet fuel

2005-09-04 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
 Dear Alan,Greg and Petrillo

 Here in Brazil , the research that had been
realized for military to replace Jet fuel using BioD
in 1980 was done with positive results, but the
details are not much known as less study were conducted at the time .

 By using low molecular fatty acids ester
,the BioD need to be engineered  to be very good
additive.Surely there are problems regard to viscosity.Small jet here
are able to run with alcohol fuel and hence BioD will be also positive
, may not be 100 percent.

sd
Pannirselvam
Brazil
On 9/4/05, Alan Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Greg and April wrote:The short answer is no.The short answer is _yes_.Baylor University did some testing with B20in their Beech King Air 90, and found that it did just fine.
The report was available at the biodiesel.org website for a while, but Ican't find it just now.A Google search of the site produced this:
http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/19981001_gen-106.pdfPurdue University also did some testing on aviation fuel, and the reportis available here:
http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/19950601_gen-144.pdfKeep in mind, turbines are, almost by definition, multifuel engines.Aslong as it doesn't overheat their burn units turbines don't care what
they're running on.You should see the list of alternate fuels for theOH-58 scout helicopters I flew in the Army!The long answer is, BioDiesel does not have to BTU's of jet fuelNo, it doesn't have the specific heat of jet fuel, but it's close enough
that it makes little difference operationally.( jet fuelis a highly refined cozen to jet fuel with allot of BTU's per gal ),Did you by any chance mean kerosene?Jet-A is high grade kerosene.Keep in mind, kerosene comes in many
flavors, and jet fuel is only one of them.nordoes it have the ability to take the low temperatures that jet fuel wouldencounter at altitude.This could be taken care of with a properly effective antigel agent.
These things are workable, but, then you have to carry more fuel, and lesscargo, and heated fuel tanks and fuel lines.This adds weight and coststo every aircraft, that is unacceptable.
Many aircraft already have fuel heaters in their fuel lines to preventfuel icing.The real problem is to prevent the fuel gelling in thetanks.Some heat already gets into the fuel tanks in many airliners
because they use the fuel tanks as a heat sink for the airconditioningsystems.I think only a good antigel agent would solve this completely,though.Jet travel is also one of theleast efficient forms of transportation there is.
That depends on how you look at it.If you consider it in terms ofpassenger seat miles per gallon then it comes out around 24mpg, IIRC,which beats most SUV's.I did have a link to an article which went into this much more in depth,
but I have lost it.Don't forget, in the airline industry fuel efficiency means profits.Using biodiesel wouldonly make it more inefficient.Maybe.But at least it would be using less petroleum.
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Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
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Re: [Biofuel] Drying ethanol

2005-09-03 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Hi Tom Irwin
 
 Dear Tom ,really very good your plan to make biofuel from Waste oil .As you are near by Brazil, you can think of the flexible car as this can run both form 
ethanol as well as the biogas
which can be very made in small scale in the farm.Go ahead with the
help of several experts from here as the small scale
unit of our can be good start in the South America .For the
same you can better make use of several recent information ,
thanks to Keith hard work to make our list archives much
update , as this can solve half of hard problems to do
practical woks in the field of Biofuel.I believe the
south America can be the leader of the Biofuel using
appropriate small bio refinery. 
Let us join to make this reality , with the help of this list members
too as the wise peoples and all relevant informations
needed are made possible here.Wishing you the best success.

Yours truely
Pannirselvam 
Natal, RN, Brasil.





You can have Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 
 


Hi Manick,

Although I am an American, I live in Uruguay. There is no access
to ethanol vehicles here as yet. Diesel vehicles definitely are
available though heavily taxed. Plus this fits my overall scheme for
making BioD in sufficient quantities to power an electric generator, my
car and ultimately my tractor. The waste heat from the generator will
heat hot water for house use and it's heating system. I'm lining
up waste oil suppliers so I can have about 2000 or more liters per year
available.The money I hope to save doing this will be put into
the organic farm on high ground just outside the city. That's it in a
nutshell.

Tom Irwin


From: Manick Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]To: 
Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 02:21:06 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Drying ethanol
Yes, after making temperature correction for waterat 25-30C
I get 0.785 which is very near literature value of 0.7893 for
ethanol andpure enough for mixing. Could you please enlighten me
why you did not opt for E85 auto which I understand is available in USA?Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Thanks Manick,

I just ran a density test. I got 0.7824g/cc vs. .7893g/cc from my
CRC handbook. The original material is .7924g/cc. That's about a
10 or 12 % removal. with some slop for my measuring technique this
might be good stuff. I'll try mixing it with gasolene next. Thanks all.


Tom Irwin



From: Manick Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:00:26 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Drying ethanol
Hello Tom,
May I offer unorthodox solution? Try to measure the specific
gravity and density using specific gravity bottle. If it matches sg of
pure ethanol you are there for practical purposes, unless you are
aiming for AR quality..Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi All,

I finally found a source of 3A molecular sieve. It´s been sitting
in 95% ethanol overnight. How do I test the ethanol to see if I removed
the 5% water? Simple mass balance? I don´t have a Karl Fisher titrator.
BTW, I used the recommended 250 grams of 3A per liter of ethanol.

Thanks,

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http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQGrupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil
Residence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 

Re: [Biofuel] Drying ethanol

2005-09-03 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
You need to measure the volume and density
after and before adosrption and use the pubblished tables to calculate
the conecntration and the make mass balance as you pointed out


Yours truely

Pannirselvam 

Natal, RN, Brasil.
On 9/1/05, Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 
 


Hi All,

I finally found a source of 3A molecular sieve. It´s been sitting
in 95% ethanol overnight. How do I test the ethanol to see if I removed
the 5% water? Simple mass balance? I don´t have a Karl Fisher titrator.
BTW, I used the recommended 250 grams of 3A per liter of ethanol.

Thanks,

Tom Irwin
___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
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Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
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--  Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQCentro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557
Cellular8488145083
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Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Illusion

2005-08-30 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Hello Taryn Too


 Thank you bringing
here the useful information about the reality
of of our actual religion, I fully agree with your critical
point .We have to have an positive and negative analysis, the
illusion
and also the mental help that is provided by the
religion where I find the
people all over the world can come and work for the people if the want
via church .
You imagine that million of people (54%) on the north east of the
Brazil and 12 percent in Amazonian area and they do not
know what is
electricity, basic need the food and education. The biofuel
from biomass ca be the great future for them .


 Yet, the university do little , but for them
the only hope via
radio is the religion and not the illusion.As you correctly
pointed
out there are several illusion negative points too , you
coorectly pointed out , economic and political goals as well
as Propaganda of what is being done Many big festivals
spending using the money collected to
help the poor are really not acceptable.Taking account of all
positive
and negative side and also the poor , I feel that the
hope of the religion is
surely more than the illusion and surely
liberty and education play
role that what this list members wish to deal the
rural problem in an
integrated way , rather than isolated partial
technocratic problem
solving one. Let us all join here to see the great green future
using biofuel to all.



 Yours truely

Pannirselvam P.V

On 8/30/05, Pannirselvam  P.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-- Forwarded message --From: TarynToo 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Aug 30, 2005 1:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and IllusionTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Hello Pannirselvam,Forgive me for taking exception to some things you said to Doug. I've
assumed (perhaps wrongly) that you're looking at the works of theCatholic church in Brazil, from a Hindu perspective. It has been yearssince I last studied the Bhagavada Gita, but I continue to practicehatha yoga for the mental and physical benefits. I greatly admire
Hinduism as a path for spiritual growth but have always been troubledby several Hindu precepts (assumptions?).Here in the west, Darwin's theories, nature red in tooth and claw,were used as justification for Social Darwinism, which claimed that
the poor were inferior, evolutionary failures, and not deserving ofopportunity, education, or fair treatment.I see reincarnation, andthe caste system, as serving a similar function in Hinduism; the lower

castes are seen as failed souls, not enlightened enough to deserve aplace in society. I have read that many schools of Hindu thought arerejecting the caste system, as is the government of India, but that the
bigotry and sexism continue.So in that sense, religion, for a native of India, seems to be a toolof oppression, creating economic and social disparity without regard tothe 'worldly value' of individuals, hence a source of illusion.
Regarding the Catholic church in Latin America; while doing much goodwork, they have also consistently spread misinformation about the useof condoms and other birth control methods.

http://www.aegis.com/news/ads/2003/AD032597.html This has acceleratedthe spread of AIDS in Catholic countries, and caused many thousands ofunnecessary deaths. It's my understanding that there is now a schism
between the Vatican and many Brazilian clerics over this, with thelocal priests and bishops denouncing the Vatican's anti-condom stance.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/051005G.shtml
 This is certainly awelcome change, but the Vatican continues it's policies against AIDSprevention education. It's not the first time the Vatican has taken astance obviously against Christ's teaching, often only to serve their
economic or political goals.A bright spot in all this has been the emergence of Catholic LiberationTheology, which at least provides a counter force to the constantcapitalist propaganda imposed on all the Americas.
American Evangelical Fundamentalist sects are also gaining power inLatin America, and they too are a constant source of AIDSmisinformation. As they have no history of liberation theology, we canbe sure that their missions will be bound to NeoCon goals.
I certainly agree with your suspicions about corporate and media powerbeing used to suppress democratic processes all over the world, but Isuspect that the church often falls on the wrong side of this battle,
they have usually supported the economic elite in class struggles, evenas their missionaries were striving to help the poor and dispossessed.I know you're 'on the ground' in Brazil, and you're seeing many

courageous, dedicated christians doing good works, against great odds.I guess I'm trying to say that you're seeing those with 'true religion
with ethicsand also truedemocratic politics' actually doing whatneeds doing. Those who send them often have other goals.
Tarynornae.comOn 8/30/05, TarynToo
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hello Pannirselvam,
Forgive me for taking exception

Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Illusion

2005-08-30 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Thank you Keith bringing here topics unknown to many of our list

 India and Pakistan have been always brothers as
India has been always adopted to all the religion first
Arians , then budha , then Muslim , then Christanism and
lately all gloabised Evangelism too as religion always
considerd as the best way to live with true spirutalism ,out
materialism , without consumadorism and free way of thinking

 India was misunderstood when
Bangladesh become free , but sure the people of the India
nad Pakistan have the same history and wish keep awy from
any Nuclear weapons away.
 
 I am sure India will never go far Nuclear
war as this will be against the very million and
million peoples way of thinking.

 Indian Parliment will never aprove to send money to
kill any human in other country , which it never has done expect
its defens being in the world as this is
against all the religion of the country. Thanks the
mass education after independence which has made India as
truely independet very big democracy of the world.

Pannirselvam P.V

On 8/30/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello Taryn, PannirselvamDid you read this?http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/2005-August/003230.html
Or:http://snipurl.com/hb3u[Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followersWho Would Jesus Assassinate? Hugo Chavez and the Men Who Claim toSpeak for Jesus
I was wanting to say something about liberation theology but I postedthat instead.By the way, here's Doug's post, Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Thanks!:
http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/2005-August/003279.htmlOr:http://snipurl.com/hb3wI don't want to interpret, but I think what Doug's talking about is
mainly how religion-of-a-sort is driving politics and the otherissues in the US and in US foreign policy, along with the nonsenseabout the US and Islam, the odious Clash of Civilisations type of
thinking and so on, and maybe the strange marriage of ChristianZionists in the US and colonial Zionism in Israel and its effects onpolitics, foreign policy, Middle East oil and all the fish.On the other hand, there's India and Pakistan, who should surely be
brothers rather than nuclear enemies... They don't seem to refer toeach other as Indians and Pakistanis as often as Hindus and Muslims.Isn't it time to seek to bury the hatchet somewhere else than in eachother's heads?
Best wishesKeithHello Pannirselvam,Forgive me for taking exception to some things you said to Doug. I'veassumed (perhaps wrongly) that you're looking at the works of the
Catholic church in Brazil, from a Hindu perspective. It has been yearssince I last studied the Bhagavada Gita, but I continue to practicehatha yoga for the mental and physical benefits. I greatly admire
Hinduism as a path for spiritual growth but have always been troubledby several Hindu precepts (assumptions?).Here in the west, Darwin's theories, nature red in tooth and claw,
were used as justification for Social Darwinism, which claimed thatthe poor were inferior, evolutionary failures, and not deserving ofopportunity, education, or fair treatment.I see reincarnation, and
the caste system, as serving a similar function in Hinduism; the lowercastes are seen as failed souls, not enlightened enough to deserve aplace in society. I have read that many schools of Hindu thought are
rejecting the caste system, as is the government of India, but that thebigotry and sexism continue.So in that sense, religion, for a native of India, seems to be a toolof oppression, creating economic and social disparity without regard to
the 'worldly value' of individuals, hence a source of illusion.Regarding the Catholic church in Latin America; while doing much goodwork, they have also consistently spread misinformation about the use
of condoms and other birth control methods.http://www.aegis.com/news/ads/2003/AD032597.html This has acceleratedthe spread of AIDS in Catholic countries, and caused many thousands of
unnecessary deaths. It's my understanding that there is now a schismbetween the Vatican and many Brazilian clerics over this, with thelocal priests and bishops denouncing the Vatican's anti-condom stance.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/051005G.shtml This is certainly awelcome change, but the Vatican continues it's policies against AIDS
prevention education. It's not the first time the Vatican has taken astance obviously against Christ's teaching, often only to serve theireconomic or political goals.A bright spot in all this has been the emergence of Catholic Liberation
Theology, which at least provides a counter force to the constantcapitalist propaganda imposed on all the Americas.American Evangelical Fundamentalist sects are also gaining power inLatin America, and they too are a constant source of AIDS
misinformation. As they have no history of liberation theology, we canbe sure that their missions will be bound to NeoCon goals.I certainly agree with your suspicions about corporate and media power
being

Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Illusion

2005-08-29 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Dear Doug Swanson

 I appreciate
your well thoughtful letter regarding our
list.But I am not able to fully understand yet  that
religion develop illusion as I native of India
, presently in Brazil .Here religion always do better thing
, the school , the hospital , the project for the poor people
. I believe the illusion are made by Big Blue
Corporate company against true religion with ethics and also
true democratic politics using money
power making the illusions.
 Surely all are inter related and I agree with you
that Biofuel bring the people together independent of
politics and religions showing the truth and showing
the green way and great future for global
sustainability.

sd
Pannirselvam P.V.On 8/27/05, des [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There's been a lot of discussion on this list regarding religions andpolitics lately; as well as the diversity in the biofuels subjects.(Isigned up back when I did, not knowing about other fuels, just looking
for more info on biodiesel...)And the expanse of knowledge displayedregarding biofuels has really been an eye-opener.And then, as an addedbonus, the international perspectives on the political and religious
conditions we find around the world have brought to my awarenessinformation and perspectives that I probably wouldn't have found just bygoogling, and certainly wouldn't have discovered had I been isolated tothe paltry servings of information distributed by the US television
nooze programs.I can now clearly see what I only had suspicions about, how closelyrelated politics, big industry, religion, etc. are connected, with atsome level or another a main thread that follows through each subject,
and that being the energy which is available, and what we are preparedto do (either as individuals or as a collective...country / planet) toobtain our fair shareI've wondered at times what kind of demographics this list covers, I
know it is international, but it would be interesting to knowpercentages of folks who are inhabitants of the US, Canada, oilproducing countries, oil poor countries, etc.I guess my curiositystems from the desire to know who is availing themselves of this great
information tool...The primary purpose of this post is, I suppose, to first thank Keith forproviding this forum for all this variety of discussion, but also thoseparticipants who take the time to bring information to the table so that
the rest of us, who may not be as fully informed as we wish / thought wewere, can get a clearer image of the world around us.Religion and politics develop illusions that separate people, thebiofuels list has the ability to bring us back together.
Thank you.doug swanson--All generalizations are false.Including this one.* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software.
No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein.All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits.___Biofuel mailing list
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http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/--   Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQGrupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil
Residence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557
Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557
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Re: [Biofuel] How to make ehtanol, second try.......

2005-08-27 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
 Dear Wdt


 As motor made in Brasil to run on
ethanol has engine design with higher compression
than gasoline car , you can think of importing the
same as the technology envolves not only the engine , but
also several other parts of the car.As I understand , may be Keith
knows much better , the bioethanol fuel programme made in
Australia is not yet made suceeesful one.


 Regrading making etanol from waste orange we
can help you as this can be made using simple
technology

sd
Pannirselvam
Brasil On 8/26/05, Wireless Data Transfer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








Hello there! 
This is the second time I post this question, since nobody responded to the 
first time, please advice!
I own a fairly 
big piece of land, in which I grow oranges, and a lot of themfall from the 
trees and rot on the ground.I have been told that making ethanol from those 
rotting oranges can be quitesimple.I can also have access to an almost 
unlimited supply of wood chips andsawdust from a nearby lumber yard, from 
which I read Methanol can beobtained, orthose can be turned on 
fireto run the furnaces to make the Ethanol, right? The main use I 
will have for either the Ethanolor the Methanol is to fuela small 
fleet of cars that I use for traveling back and forth to where theoranges 
are.The 4 cars combined consume about 50~60 gallons of fuel permonth, each. 
I have found in various places on the Web that Brazil has manyvehicles that 
come from the factory ready to use alcohol as the fuel, butnobody seems to 
have many details of the systems.
I'm looking 
forwardfor any suggestions to learn how to produce my own fuel at reduced 
costs, in order to make my operation as self-sustainable as 
possible.
Thank you in advance!

___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
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http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/--  Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQGrupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil
Residence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557
Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557
Cellular8488145083
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Re: [Biofuel] How to make ehtanol, second try.......

2005-08-27 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
 Keith Thanks for your information 

 Even
though ,  there are several well
established technology that can be used to make 
waste into fuel and hence also food by small
scale biorefinary in almost all countries, yet economically
grown country is moving very slow in this
sector .After reading your e mail 
I now understand well why our list members need
to include the biofuel problems linked to all political and
global world issues .The very big corporate
production model adopted by the Canada and
Australia not following decentralised biofuel
projects based on their plentiful renewable
resources can be surely due to too big blue
Corporate companies and their corrupted politics
not allowing the green way of sustainable
path for the local and global developments. 
How an small farmer can use ethanol if the economically
well designed car is not available in several
countries but made possible in Brazil. Brazilian government has
to put huge amount of money for research to make the big
Multinational Corporate all the Car company earlier in 1980 , now
they all fighting with one another to make flexible biofuel car
to run simultaneously ,natural gas(biogas) , alcohol and
gasoline.We can send details about the Brasilian ethanol
car and I beleive that car can be modified to run with
etanol based on the information in the internet with
especialized people.
I am sure waste vegetable oil can also make this biofuel car more flexible .
May be Brazil can export the car and combustible to
the developing world where the speed and luxury is not the
matter but biofuel is very far away the common man .Thus
biofuel can be practical solution to get away poverty and
dependence of poor on rich.

Kind regards to all our list members 

 
sd
Pannir selvam P.V
Brasil
On 8/27/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear PannirselvamDearWdt As motor made in Brasil to run on ethanolhasengine designwith higher compression than gasolinecar , youcan think ofimportingthe sameas the technology envolvesnot only the engine
, but also several other parts of the car.As I understand , may beKeith knows much better , thebioethanol fuelprogramme made inAustralia is not yet madesuceeesful one.I don't know any better Pan. I think you're right, and I think they
made it a maximum of 10% with 90% gasoline, following a disgracefuldisinformation campaign against ethanol. That was a couple of yearsago, I think it's all in the list archives. I haven't followed itclosely since then. Last I heard they were proposing big taxes on
biodiesel, including homebrewers, but I don't know what's become ofthat either. Maybe this is what one should expect from the world's #1coal exporter and #2 global warming denier. Australians themselvesare another matter, I don't know how long they'd accept this kind of
treatment.RegardsKeith Regrading making etanol fromwaste orange wecan help youasthis can be madeusing simpletechnologysdPannirselvamBrasil
On 8/26/05, Wireless Data Transfermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hello there! This is the second time I post this question, since
nobody responded to the first time, please advice!snip___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:
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--Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQCentro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557
Cellular8488145083
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Re: [Biofuel] Chemical engineer's letter and bioeng

2005-08-23 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Hi Derick

 True, I totally agree that trying in correct direction
with the interaction with multidicipline colaboration
can lead to good sucess, not with limited persistant work

sd
Pannir On 8/21/05, DERICK GIORCHINO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

















In my opinion.

Since the dawn of time science and
scientists have been considered quacks. The persistent have succeeded on one
level or another.

If you don't try you can't succeed.











From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Michael Redler
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 5:24
PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chemical
engineer's letter and bioeng









How can I respond to the negative email below?





...with persistence.











Good luck!











Mike






Pannirselvam
P.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:






HI 

Without the colaborative information exchange and dadta
base information on biofuel both chemical and bioenginerring people
are wasting the money in research not only in USA , but also in the
developing country too as an academic curiosity to make patent and
publish papers .Hence Mari the e mail has some fact for all the members
to think about .
Any research need sound chemical logic as well as economical objetive .
Ethanol via biochemical route compared chemical
syntysis seem to be very practical one .

sd
Pannirselvam



On 8/20/05, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:


HELP!
How can I respond to the negative email below? It's from a
chemical engineer friend researching ethanol from cellulose. I
sent him some info from this list to help his research, and was
surprised by the anger. Anyone have specific things I can say in
response?

The email: 

Hi Marilyn

Those guys are out in left field. From my perspective -- having
followed and evaluated various biomass gasification processes
(technology and economics) for 27 years -- is that the
Bioengineering Resources guys are opportunistic promoters -- 
looking for suckers (e.g., U.S. DOE or some naive investors with
money to waste). The technology is neither prove nor
economical. And who needs more vinegar (dilute acetic acid).

Fermentation of synthesis gas to acetic acid is nonsense. 
Producing synthesis gas from biomass is itself unproven at any
significant scale (not even in a decent pilot plant) -- and if it could
be achieved, would be very expensive relative to other options for
producing synthesis gas. FYI -- Synthesis gas is a mixture of 
hydrogen and carbon monoxide, which can be reacted over
various catalysts at elevated temperatures to produce many
different products -- such as alcohols, hydrocarbons, and
various oxygenated organic compounds. The synthesis gas first 
has to be purified (made extremely clean), and the H2/CO ratio
also has to be adjusted for the specific application. After the
synthesis, further processing is usually required. 

Most of these assorted biomass energy promoters (and I have 
seen many come and go over 27 years) don't understand
chemical engineering, process economics, resource
availability/supply/transportation economics, etc., etc. Yet every
every 5-10 years a new generation of biomass advocates and 
promoters emerge (or are otherwise born into the light) who
don't know their asses from first base -- but think that biomass
will save the world -- and so promote all kinds of technically
dumb and uneconomical ideas -- and make life miserable for 
the people who are doing reasonable work. They all stroke each
other and keep each other going and feeling self-righteous.

This whole business is too complicated and emotion-ridden for
the biomass zealots (and apparently for me too) for me to begin 
discussing the many dimensions of it in an e-mail.

I personally favor the idea of exploiting biomass (intelligently) as
a renewable energy resource -- and think that we can be utilizing
it. However, a lot has to change (mostly politically, socially, 
economically, educationally, etc.) for that to ever happen. The
cause is not helped by promoters of dumb ideas.


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-- 
Pagandai V Pannirselvam
Universidade Federal do Rio Grande
do Norte - UFRN
Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ 
Centro de Tecnologia - CT
Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC

Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário
CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil 

Residence :
AvOdilon gome de lima,
2951,
 Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
 CapimMacio
EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557

Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 
residencia
32171557

Re: [Biofuel] Lignin crop redidue breakdown

2005-08-21 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Hi Rich
The use of compostingas the pre
treatmenthave several disadvantages.Instead
ofselective removal of lignin the hemicelluose and
cellulose are significantly lost as well as the long processing time
, the need for mixed inoculations and also as the problem
of contamination.Surley yet this method can be apropriate for rural areas sdPannirselvam/18/05, Rich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I am looking at the second chapter of Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel -Raw
 materials chapter at http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meCh2.html#2_1.At the Crop Residue part, it says: 
The backbone of sugar and starch crops -- the stalks and leaves -- is composed mainly of cellulose. The individual six-carbon sugar units in cellulose are linked together in extremely long chains by a stronger
 chemical bond than exists in starch. As with starch, cellulose must be broken down into sugar units before it can be used by yeast to make ethanol. However, the breaking of the cellulose bonds is much more complex and costly
 than the breaking of the starch bonds. Breaking the cellulose into individual sugar units is complicated by the presence of lignin, a complex compound surrounding cellulose, which is even more resistant than cellulose
 to enzymatic or acidic pretreatment. Because of the high cost of converting liquefied cellulose into fermentable sugars, agricultural residues (as well as other crops having a high percentage of cellulose) are not yet a
 practical feedstock source for small ethanol plants. Current research may result in feasible cellulosic conversion processes in the future.I am alsolooking at Stu Campbell's book LET IT ROT!The gardener's guide to
 composting, Revised edition.My question is since composting does a good job of breaking down lignin, would it be possible to use composting as part ofthe ethanol creation process?
 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
--   Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQCentro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557
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Re: [Biofuel] Questions on drying Ethanol

2005-08-21 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Hi Tom 

 As significant equal quantity of
CO2 is produzido along with bioethanol , which can be very
well utized to regenerate the the used zeolites to replace
Nitrogen gas

sd
Pannirselvam P.V 

 On 8/19/05, Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 
 


Hi All,

I´m trying to figure my local costs for ethanol to try some
batches in BioD from waste oil. Ethanol 100% is quite expense, 95 % a
bit less and 70% least costly. I have a supplier of 3A molecular sieve
at about US $40 per kilogram. I was planning on starting with the 95%
and running it through a column filled with about 250 grams of the 3A
sieve. I generate my own electricity. Though it is a cost, I have some
excess capacity. I alsohave a muffle furnace that can get at
least to 550 C. The last time I worked with zeolites and molecular
sieves I had access to nitrogen gas to pump through to regenerate the
columns to remove bound water. I no longer have that nitrogen
gas.Is it possible to regenerate the 3A mole sieve without a
blanketing gas? I may be able to pump air through the column. Does my
procedure seem right for removing the water from 95% ethanol? Would the
same procedure work with the 70% ethanol?

Thanks,

Tom Irwin
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--   Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQCentro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - BrasilResidence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557
Cellular8488145083
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Re: [Biofuel] Chemical engineer's letter and bioeng

2005-08-21 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
HI 

Without the colaborative information exchange
and dadta base information on biofuel both chemical and
bioenginerring people are wasting the money in research not
only in USA , but also in the developing country too as an
academic curiosity to make patent and publish papers .Hence Mari
the e mail has some fact for all the members to think about .
Any research need sound chemical logic as well as economical objetive .
Ethanol via biochemical route compared chemical syntysis seem to be very practical one .

sd
PannirselvamOn 8/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:HELP!How can I respond to the negative email below? It's from a
chemical engineer friend researching ethanol from cellulose. Isent him some info from this list to help his research, and wassurprised by the anger. Anyone have specific things I can say inresponse?The email:
Hi MarilynThose guys are out in left field. From my perspective -- havingfollowed and evaluated various biomass gasification processes(technology and economics) for 27 years -- is that theBioengineering Resources guys are opportunistic promoters --
looking for suckers (e.g., U.S. DOE or some naive investors withmoney to waste). The technology is neither prove noreconomical. And who needs more vinegar (dilute acetic acid).Fermentation of synthesis gas to acetic acid is nonsense.
Producing synthesis gas from biomass is itself unproven at anysignificant scale (not even in a decent pilot plant) -- and if it couldbe achieved, would be very expensive relative to other options forproducing synthesis gas. FYI -- Synthesis gas is a mixture of
hydrogen and carbon monoxide, which can be reacted overvarious catalysts at elevated temperatures to produce manydifferent products -- such as alcohols, hydrocarbons, andvarious oxygenated organic compounds. The synthesis gas first
has to be purified (made extremely clean), and the H2/CO ratioalso has to be adjusted for the specific application. After thesynthesis, further processing is usually required. Most of these assorted biomass energy promoters (and I have
seen many come and go over 27 years) don't understandchemical engineering, process economics, resourceavailability/supply/transportation economics, etc., etc. Yet everyevery 5-10 years a new generation of biomass advocates and
promoters emerge (or are otherwise born into the light) whodon't know their asses from first base -- but think that biomasswill save the world -- and so promote all kinds of technicallydumb and uneconomical ideas -- and make life miserable for
the people who are doing reasonable work. They all stroke eachother and keep each other going and feeling self-righteous.This whole business is too complicated and emotion-ridden forthe biomass zealots (and apparently for me too) for me to begin
discussing the many dimensions of it in an e-mail.I personally favor the idea of exploiting biomass (intelligently) asa renewable energy resource -- and think that we can be utilizingit. However, a lot has to change (mostly politically, socially,
economically, educationally, etc.) for that to ever happen. Thecause is not helped by promoters of dumb ideas.___Biofuel mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/--  Pagandai V PannirselvamUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRNDepartamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CTPrograma de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQGrupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPECAv. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus UniversitárioCEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil
Residence :AvOdilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 CapimMacioEP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - BrasilTelefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal21032171557
Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557
Cellular8488145083
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Re: [Biofuel] de-polymerizing cellulose not practical at this point

2005-08-14 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Helow Brain, Tom , Robert , Keith and every one 

  As I am from academics side  involved in this subject in our
list  with PHD thesis (IIT, Delhi, India  in 1980)  on enzymatic
hydrolysis  of bimass waste and following the research  for the past
25 years in this area .After   seeing  remarkable break through in
cellulase  enzyme productivity and costs, now  I am sure that   the
low energy path of depolymerization of cellulose using enzymes  can be
practical for distributed  bioethanol made possible from paper and
biomass wastes.  Eventhouh acid hydrolysis is commercially proven
technology , some  physical and  Biological  pretreatment  using fungi
followed by the enzymatic hydrolysis using commercially available
celluase enzyme , with reuse of enzymes  can make possible 
practically depolymerize cellulose to higher yield , making also
possible the  simultaneous fermentation and depolimerization all this
as well  studied with higher yields too. However  the problems are yet
 the low  concentration of alcohol in the process and enzyme recovery
yet not very high.

With the use of  solvent (caster oil ) alcohol and water  as
described  her in the biofuel  list archives can  make possible to
overcome the problems ina practical way and sub products ezymatically 
degraded  ethanol soluble lignin can be used  as an usfuel  biofuel as
lignin has higher calorific value.The mushroom process  can  make 
depolimerization in practical way as an effective pretreatment.
  
  This route is  yet  to be outined in  detail  in  web page of
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

  Yet, Keith has some  infomation  , but not yet published  in the web
pages as this small biomass refinary not yet matured one  but is
developing fast one  to be  as this not only the acadamic , but also
practical one for the  very near future.

  Small Biomass refinery  for biofuel  production by rural farmer  can
bring food, feed , fuel,fertillizer  in a decentralized way with more
sustainabilty  and peace  to the world.

  I am sure that   our biofuel list  and the list members  is the only
global forum  to make this path , transfer it global and  make the
difusion  to all  parts of the world  who need it.
 
 Greeting to all

  Yours truely
Pannirselvam
Brasil

 

   
 
 


On 8/13/05, Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Thank you Tom, Robert, and everyone for the fantastic feedback. 

  I received an email from my Dad, the retired chemist.  He suggests we move
 away from the idea of de-polymerizing cellulose as it seems out of our reach
 financially and technologically. I am happy to let the process of
 mycelium-rot to the fungi folks and let them see what they can do with it.
 Dad said he could find no serious research into cellulose breakdown by any
 of his friends at the university. Without the help of these academics, he
 believes we can not continue on our own. I told him we would continue to
 knock it around at the Biofuels email list.   

  
  I will continue to pursue the ethanol angle,  but I will stick to
 conventional methods of fermentation. For instance, I will explore the
 naturally occurring sugar plants. A friend came by the other day with wine
 made from prickly pears. Very potent drink with all the flavor a wine
 enthusiast can wish for. I will search for more locally available, naturally
 occurring, sugary feedstock to get my experiments going with fermentation. 

  My next research project will be steam power. 

  With more great info found through the vast wealth of knowledge at the
 Journey to Forever web site, I think it makes a lot of sense to burn the
 readily available waste wood as opposed to breaking it down in order to
 ferment it. I realize that the smoke is going to be a problem, so I am
 hoping  with experience I gained building several wood burning heat stoves I
 can build an efficient fire box. 


  It's weird, but the morning process around here is similar to the steam
 engine. As I work on my daily newsletter, ideas are slow to build up, gain
 momentum, albeit sloppy and sluggish, then the whistle blows, and I finally
 figure out what I want to write about. Then I have to read what I already
 have,  edit out the erroneous filler that got me focused in the first place,
 and then I really get going, full steam ahead. 
   
   I was talking with my older brother last night. I attempted to inspire him
 with my new plans for a steam powered ranch community. One massive,
 centrally located, wood fired boiler which easily converts waste wood to
 energy. Steam is routed to several households in close proximity. A nearby
 steam powered electric generator should be able to furnish enough power to
 run the entire ranch with power left over during non-peak electric use hours
 to sell back to the local Electric Co-Op. I still need to research the
 circuits needed to reverse power back through the meter. But this is well
 within my understanding, much more so than chemistry. 
  
  

Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel

2005-08-08 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
 Hi D Giorchino

   The mess you have made can be  a new dicovery of solid biofuel .
jelly solid ethanol has good market  as  the  future biofuel for rural
areas as  identified by UN.
   Try to  acess about the possbility of mixing your mess with 
ethanol jelly fuel.Thus the big problem of disposing the mess can be
an aportunity to  make business.

Fell free to have help from this list as  all here very good  experts

Yours truely
Pannirselvam P.V
Federal university ,Natal.RN
Brasil
 

On 8/7/05, DERICK GIORCHINO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Keith More
 Thanks for you response.
  I tried the world famous chop stick titration technique. Wow what a
 difference in my titration  #.
 I did a 1 ltr test in a soda bottle, with excellent result almost instantly.
 But here is where I got into trouble.
  The next batch was 20 liters I had some methoxide mixed from a prior batch
 that was also a failure and I couldn't figure what to do with the toxic mix
 so I tried to dilute it to 10 g.p. liter. I did my mixing of the 20 liters.
 As it cooled it turned into what looks like lard. I felt that I may have
 overdosed it. So I then took some test bottles and put 20% failure oil and
 75% fresh wvo set it in the sun to melt/ liquefy. (105 deg F) shook it hard
 also a 50/50 mix in the hot state it seamed to separate better 25/75 than
 the 50/50 but as the sun went down and it cooled the 25/75 started to jell
 and the glycerol layer vanished but the 50/50 looked much better with a
 glycerol layer jelled at the bottom. I m not asking for a fix. But is the
 jelly a typical sign of over dosing? I have a problem with disposing of the
 mess I have made if there is a way to salvage it.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison
 Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:58 PM
 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Subject: RE: [Biofuel] RE: Phenolphthalein solution
 
 Hi Derick
 
 May be there is some help for me out there. I have made lots and lots of
 test batches. Most of them bad not good. One border line. And one 15 gal
 batch with fairly good results. I have used all the options given for
 titration in the J.T. Forever. Test strips work
 
 ... poorly, if at all, and are not recommended by JtF.
 
 but after introducing it to
 the mix I find if I need to add more solution the color will not change so
 I
 need to add strip after strip as I add the solution accuracy is probably
 off
 by the time I get done P.H. meter a good one I found to be about the same
 
 pH meters work well, especially if it's a good one, you shouldn't be
 having problems.
 
 and I have used phenolphthalein and get excellent response but im no
 chemist
 
 Very few of us are.
 
 can anyone tell me how much phenolphthalein to use on the test I have been
 using 2 drops @ 1% phenolphthalein. The instructions from J.T.F say use 1%
 phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%). If you can please help. Thanks Derick
 
 You say: The instructions from J.T.F say use 1% phenolphthalein
 solution (1.0w/v%).
 
 The instructions at JtF say: Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution.
 
 Dissolve 1 gm of lye in 1 litre of distilled water (0.1% w/v lye
 solution). In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of the cooled oil in 10
 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the beaker gently by standing it
 in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol
 and turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a
 graduated syringe, add 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the
 oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time, until
 the solution starts to turn pink and stays that way for 10 seconds.
 
 -- From: Biodiesel from waste oil
 http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo
 
 See also:
 
 More about lye
 How much lye to use?
 Basic titration
 Better titration
 Accurate measurements
 pH meters
 Phenolphthalein
 pH meters vs phenolphthalein
 
 http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye
 
 Are your scales, measuring equipment and measuring techniques up to scratch?
 
 Best wishes
 
 Keith
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Probst, Peter
 Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 9:44 AM
 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Subject: [Biofuel] RE: Phenolphthalein solution
 
 Thanks to all who provided sources and altarnatives for the
 phenolphthalein! Now I can start using the 75+ gallons of WVO that's been
 sitting around my garage.
 Pete
 
 
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Re: [Biofuel] New Fair Trade Model Needed and ecological engineering

2005-08-07 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
  Sustainable global economy need  new fair trade model based on the
global  energy, economy and ecology.Several interesting work in the 
ecological engineering model can help to find this fair tarde model.by
ODUM there can be social tesuname can bee forseen as the big
turbulance not only for the developing world but also the develping
one as the poor country money has novalue and hence their product too.
sd
Pannirselvam 

On 8/5/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2266/
 
 News  July 28, 2005
 
 New Fair Trade Model Needed
 
 Sweeping changes in the export of textiles have forced a difficult
 reappraisal among U.S. sweatshop monitors: How best to help workers
 in a relentless industry?
 
 By Mischa Gaus
 
 Workers at the Youngor Group textile factory in China.
 
 The expiration of the worldwide quota system that regulated the flow
 of textiles between the global south and north, now six months old,
 has created massive job losses across the Americas, Africa and parts
 of South and Southeast Asia. The quotas restricted the number of
 textiles and garments each of about 150 countries could import to the
 United States and the European Union by type. The United Nations
 Development Program estimated 1 million jobs may be lost as a result.
 
 Following shifts in production to China, Vietnam and India, exports
 to the United States of some goods from those countries increased by
 as much as 1,200 percent this year. Sweatshop monitoring groups say
 other areas handicapped by geography and poor infrastructure, like
 Swaziland, saw nearly half their factories closed.
 
 The quotas existed for 30 years to protect rich nations' garment
 industries from low-wage competition in poor countries. Rich nations
 gave up quotas a decade ago during World Trade Organization
 negotiations in return for other favorable rules, and quotas have
 been phasing out since then. January's quota termination accelerated
 the trend in the already cutthroat business that demands annual price
 cuts from its contracted factories-2 to 3 percent each year over the
 last decade, according to a U.S. mill spokesman.
 
 Some estimates say the phase-out could allow apparel corporations to
 force prices down by as much as 30 percent, making life much worse
 for apparel workers who still have jobs.
 
 Factories find a way to meet the price or they don't, says Scott
 Nova, executive director of the factory-monitoring group, Worker
 Rights Consortium. One of the ways they're going to meet it is by
 screwing their workers. Brands know this and they ultimately bear the
 moral responsibility for causing it.
 
 The wrenching changes in the apparel industry vexes groups like the
 Consortium, which has spent four years focusing on individual
 factories to help garment workers build independent unions, obtain
 health benefits, and curb blacklisting, discrimination and physical
 violence against workers who join unions or attempt to organize them.
 
 But having friends in the north was no immunity. Several of the
 factories where the Consortium helped secure large gains have closed
 or idled workers as managers moved production out.
 
 As in the rest of the industry, much of the work fled to China, where
 independent unions are banned. Undeterred, the Consortium has
 partnered with Hong Kong-based NGOs that operate in the mainland.
 With backing from brands that contract with Chinese factories, the
 group plans to hold labor and safety trainings inside shops-and below
 the government's radar. That could nurture independent organizing
 and, in time, nascent unions.
 
 The crucial question: How long before the Chinese government, which
 has tolerated some spontaneous worker organizing recently, would see
 the trainings as a threat?
 
 Trying to work on labor issues in China is like trying to dance on a
 nightclub dance floor, says Clark University sociology professor Bob
 Ross, who writes on sweatshop issues. You've got just a certain
 amount of space to wiggle in, and it's not a lot.
 
 Ultimately, anti-sweatshop advocates say the kind of
 factory-by-factory struggle fought thus far and envisioned in China
 cannot expand enough to counter the unyielding imperatives of
 capital. Without structural change within the industry-such as
 year-to-year stability in contracts, ending the ceaseless price cuts
 demanded by brands, and forcing brands to pay prices that reflect the
 actual cost of providing workers a decent wage and dignified
 workplace-lasting and meaningful gains for a significant number of
 garment workers are impossible.
 
 We've had to jump from factory solidarity campaign to factory
 solidarity campaign where things arise, says Allie Robbins, a
 national organizer with United Students Against Sweatshops. We're
 seeing the need for a new strategy.
 
 The power of anti-sweatshop activists resides in universities that
 sell rights to license goods with their logos. Students have forced
 their 

Re: [Biofuel] First Mixer

2005-08-07 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Greetings to all and Keith

   Recently I hve  the aporunity to participate  Germa nad Brasil
joint conference held in Fortaleza , N, Brazil  on BioD.Af any one
from the list needs  more infomation we can send more  details.

   One of the BASF proposal is  to make  to perpare metylhydroxide and
distribute  for the small scale BioD.
   Can this  method will  really help the remote rural people of the 
developing world  or will increase the gap.C an this will be reality.

sd
Pannirselvam.

On 8/5/05, Garth  Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Greetings,
 Garth is building us our first test mixer and he has a question.  Will the
 methylhydroxide damage brass?  We have a collection of brass fitting and
 were thinking about using them.
 Bright Blessings,
 Kim
 
 
 
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 Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
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-- 
 Pagandai V Pannirselvam
Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN
Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CT
Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC

Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário
CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Residence :
Av  Odilon gome de lima, 2951,
   Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
   Capim  Macio
EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210
32171557
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Re: [Biofuel] Re: thermal and biological depolymerization

2005-08-07 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Hello Brian and Keith


Biological depolymerization is as much effective as thermal one 
via mushroom growth compared to thermal depolymerization as this
involves enzymatic combustion  reaction mechanism  with out energy
input .The reaction of  enzymatic combustion has been discovered
recently found  to play major role by the fungi of the mushroom
family.Thus mushroom production coupled with enzymatic celluase
process  can make  ethanol from cellulose  much more  sustainable as 
the celluase enzymes can be reused soon can be mad avaialble plenty.

sd
Pannirselvam P.V

On 8/5/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Forgot about this...
 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg45810.html
 [Biofuel] 'Changing World Technologies' Plan to Turn Garbage into Oil
 
 Best
 
 Keith
 
 
 Hello Brian
 
 Ok, I promised the list admin I would look in the archives before I
 asked questions about new subjects.  I did find some stuff about
 thermal depolymerization TDP.
 http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2003/Anything-Into-Oil1may03.htmht
 tp://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2003/Anything-Into-Oil1may03.htm
 I really would like to know what the current group thinks about the
 Thermal Conversion Process (TCP). I have read the company blurbs at
 Changing World Technologies site and a few other articles found on
 the Web. Have you all exhausted your talk on this already? In the
 meantime I will keep searching the archives. I realize that TDP is
 not a backyard project so if you want to leave it alone I will
 understand.
 
 Brian Rodgers
 
 It's a hardy perennial, always popping up in a new guise, whether
 oil from turkey parts or whatever. An archive search for
 Fischer-Tropsch will tell you much, including this fascinating
 snippet, from a list member:
 
 One of our oldest scientists, now 84 yrs. old, was responsible for
 going into Germany post WWII and uncovering the remains of Hitler's
 synthetic fuels machine which had been bombed out. I'm speaking of
 Fischer-Tropsch oily-based paraffins which are hydrocracked down
 into shorter chains for synthetic gasoline, jet fuel and diesel. He
 brought back some of the original German scientists who'd perfected
 this technology which utilized coarse, low-grade brown German coal
 as feedstock. Three times he tried to start-up an American version
 of synthetic hydrocarbon fuels in the GTL arena and was blocked. As
 the highest ranking American energy technologist post WWII, he
 couldn't figure this out. It was over 20 years later that he
 realized that the late John Rockefeller of Standard Oil [Exxon] had
 been the politic behind the scenes, making sure that his new,
 alternative fuel ideas did not materialize. This scientist then took
 his blueprints for the first major GTL project and gave them to
 Sasol who built his first coal gasification device back in 1953 and
 it is still operating today. Sasol from South Africa is the oldest
 synthetic fuels producer globally.
 
 Try these:
 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg46496.html
 Re: [Biofuel] Chrisgas
 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg39855.html
 Re: [Biofuel] what are the on about?
 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg39881.html
 Re: [Biofuel] what are the on about?
 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg39888.html
 Re: [Biofuel] what are the on about?
 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg32941.html
 Re: [biofuel] Sunoil better than biodiesel
 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg24063.html
 Re: [biofuel] longdiscover article: anything to oil!
 
 Best
 
 Keith
 
 
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-- 
  Pagandai V Pannirselvam
Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN
Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CT
Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC

Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário
CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Residence :
Av  Odilon gome de lima, 2951,
   Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
   Capim  Macio
EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210
32171557
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Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms using bioprocess

2005-08-05 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
   Hello to every one 

   Very simple bio process using mushroom Pluretus can give substrate 
for  simultaneous  saccharification(hydrolysis) and fermentation ,
this can lead to low alcohol content , but  a simple solvent
extraction with Castor oil as outlined  in 
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html.This can lead to  hydrous
alcohol which can be used  directly used as feed stocks (raw material)
after removal of the water using compressed air  and zeolites
adsorption.Surely this can low energy consuming process and can be
done in a decentralised small scale biomass  refinery as alternate to
the petroleum refinery.

sd
Pannir 

On 8/4/05, Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Now that you bring up this point about yeast and fungi eating sugar the same
 stuff needed to ferment, it occurs to me that these fungi folks were unaware
 that I was trying to ferment the sawdust. Their original plan as I recall
 was to help my friend who owns a small sawmill to dispose of sawdust. Oh
 well at this point it is still in the thinking about it stage. I will gladly
 leave some of this learning the hard way stuff for next season, or as they
 say around here Mañana   
  
  I will apprise you all of the mushroom experiment as it develops.
  
  Brian Rodgers My hopes go up and down up and down.
  Brian
  
 Hello Brian. This is most intriguing. Let me describe another sawdust expt.
 which I did in my kitchen. I first placed the  sawdust in a clean wide mouth
 plastic feeding bottle, anchored it in a pot of water, and boiled for 30
 min. with lid on to sterilise the sawdust. On cooling a small piece of
 edible 'oyster mushroom' was dipped for short time in 'chlorox' solution
 (dilute sodium hypochlorite solution) and quickly inserted into sawdust with
 sterilised tongs. The mouth of the bottle was stuffed with sterile cotton. I
 was of course trying to make edible mushroom. sure enough the white
 mycellium grew for 2-3 wks. A black coloured spot suddenly appeared and
 quickly spread throughout the bottle killing the oyster, probably due to
 poor sterile technique. The oyster mushroom was fresh from the supermarket.
 It was growing for few weeks. I did not measure the glucose content for
 which sterile water inlet/outlet fittings would have been necessary. I also
 did not continue mushroom expts. in my kitchen, although I used it from time
 to time for tinkering with kitchen chemistry, courtesy of my dear wife, who
 is now looking over my shoulder at all this with a smile. Cheers.   
 
 This is very helpful. Thank you so much. I have passed this along to my
 friends in the New Mexico Mycological Society. http://www.mycowest.org/nmms/
 Let's see if they can get on the ball. 
 I received several responses about the wood digesting mushroom at the
 Biofuels group. I wish I knew more about how mycelia operated. I don't know
 which is the most  useful feedback, so I posted the letters here for all
 mycological society  types out there. Please interpret and give me some
 feedback so I can pass it along to these other scientific types. At first I
 thought maybe we were barking up the wrong tree and then one fellow said,
 Yes Oyster mushrooms, find the right one and grow some. Very cool. You mean
 we aren't totally off the wall? Brian Rodgers
  
  
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-- 
  Pagandai V Pannirselvam
Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN
Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CT
Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC

Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário
CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Residence :
Av  Odilon gome de lima, 2951,
   Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
   Capim  Macio
EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210
32171557
Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 
residencia 32171557

 Cellular  84  88145083

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Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood please compliment

2005-08-05 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
 Hi 
   Brain Rodgers

   Gypsym can be used as depolymerizing and delignication agente
for removal of lignin at hiher temperatature , making possivel
cellulose seperation , and hence  , sugar  and alcohol production
sd
Pannirselvam 

On 8/4/05, Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Thanks Manick
  
 You are fortunate to have walking encyclopedia in your dad. Nurture him
 well. 
 
 During my morning run I stopped by the area where Dad was attaching wire to
 the steel posts I pounded in over the weekend. (Patting myself on the back
 here for nurturing.) Hehe Anyway, Dad said it was nice to hear your
 compliment and he was encouraged. He explained the deal with the gypsum. I
 admitted I had no idea how gypsum was involved with  biomass processing. I
 am still a bit unclear and asked him to get me a link or write it down so I
 can study the theory and maybe it will sink in. He also said that he queried
 the UNM Chemistry department of which he is alumni about which University
 was actively working on the cellulose to sugar process. They didn't know.
 Does anyone here know the answer to this question? Brian Rodgers   
  
  
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-- 
 Pagandai V Pannirselvam
Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN
Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CT
Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC

Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário
CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Residence :
Av  Odilon gome de lima, 2951,
   Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
   Capim  Macio
EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210
32171557
Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 
residencia 32171557

 Cellular  84  88145083

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Re: [Biofuel] The rise of Corporate Power and the disabling of democracy

2005-08-01 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
  Helo  Keith 

  The present political crises and  corruption in recent turbulence in
Brazil  is  certainly due to  the lobby , the big buisness , The
Corporate banking system  where rich is becoming richer , the poor
much poor  trying to disable the democracy  and sustainable
developements .The topic is  more relevant for us  here too in our
forum

Thanking you Keith

Yours truely
Pannirselvam




On 7/29/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Fwd from Lion Kuntz at Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion
 Group (SANET):
 
 While looking up something about Tom Scott, in 1877 the
 president of the biggest corporation in the world who went to
 war with John D. Rockefeller and lost, I found a link.
 
 This link led to a chapter of a book online, which had good
 information, and confirmed facts from a number of other sources.
 However, I noticed that the host site offered the electronic
 version of the book for free download in PDF format.
 
 If anybody would like to save themselves twenty-five smackers,
 this book is offered by arrangement of the author and the
 publisher. It is not some pirate copy.
 
 http://gangsofamerica.com/index.html
 
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 Sincerely, Lion Kuntz
 Santa Rosa, California, USA
 
 Download for free:
 http://gangsofamerica.com/read.html
 
 http://gangsofamerica.com/index.html
 Gangs of America by Ted Nace - the rise of Corporate Power and the
 disabling of democracy
 
 Corporations are the dominant force in modern life, surpassing even
 church and state. The largest are richer than entire nations, and
 courts have given these entities more rights than people. To many
 Americans, corporate power seems out of control. According to a
 Business Week/Harris poll released in September 2000, 82 percent of
 those surveyed agreed that business has too much power over too many
 aspects of our lives. And the recent revelations of corporate
 scandal and political influence have only added to such concerns.
 
 Where did this powerful institution come from? How did it get so much
 power? In Gangs of America: The Rise of Corporate Power and the
 Disabling of Democracy, author Ted Nace probes the roots of corporate
 power, finding answers in surprising places.
 
 A key revelation of the book is the wariness of the Founding Fathers
 toward corporations. That wariness was shaped by rampant abuses on
 the part of British corporations such as the Virginia Company, whose
 ill-treatment killed thousands of women and children on forced-labor
 tobacco plantations, and the East India Company, whose attempt to
 monopolize American commodities led to the merchant-led rebellion
 known as the Boston Tea Party.
 
 Because of such attitudes, the word corporation does not appear once
 in the United States Constitution. At the Constitutional Convention,
 all proposals to include corporations in that document were voted
 down by delegates. Corporate attorneys persisted in seeking legal
 protections for their clients by means of sympathetic court rulings,
 but until the Civil War such attempts largely failed.
 
 After the Civil War, the tide quickly turned, as lobbyists secured
 key changes in corporate law and as corporate attorneys won a series
 of decisions from an increasingly pro-corporate Supreme Court. Nace
 recounts the key figures who engineered the corporate bill of
 rights, in particular two brilliant strategists: railroad baron Tom
 Scott and Supreme Court Justice Stephen Field. The book explores in
 depth the bizarre intrigues that resulted in the infamous
 corporations are persons ruling of 1886, and how that ruling
 affected the subsequent development of Supreme Court doctrine.
 
 Nace charts the growth of corporate power through the Gilded Age,
 including the bloody repression of organized labor and the rise of
 social Darwinist thinking among American elites. He recounts how that
 expansion came to a halt under the New Deal, as organized labor
 gained legal protections, social Darwinism fell into disrepute, and
 Franklin Roosevelt asserted a vision of American society that placed
 democratic limits on corporate power. To many observers, it seemed
 that the corporate Frankenstein had finally been tamed by
 countervailing power.
 
 According to Nace, that optimistic view was dashed in the final
 decades of the twentieth century, as Big Business mounted a
 remarkable comeback. The corporate political resurgence began with a
 1971 memorandum written by Lewis Powell, Jr., shortly before Powell
 was appointed to the Supreme Court by Richard Nixon. In the
 memorandum, Powell urged corporate America to apply its full
 organizational and strategic resources to politics, a course of
 action that proved highly successful.
 
 Gangs of America describes the expansion of corporate legal
 empowerment onto the global stage through international agreements
 such as the North American Free Trade Agreement, which boosted the
 legal powers of corporations to the level of sovereign 

Re: [Biofuel] The Homemade Windmills of Nebraska

2005-07-21 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
   Helo Keith and all our list members

   Wind energy is  also important bioenergy and thank a lot Keith
bringing the very interesting  information as this can  make possivel
to come out with the inovative design

sd
Pannirselvam

On 7/21/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 http://www.newearthdigest.com/energy/mechanical/wind/neb/nebraska_1.html
 The Homemade Windmills of Nebraska
 
 An online reprint of the original 1899 book on homemade windmills and
 their applications.
 
 The wind should be looked upon as a natural resource just as worthy
 of development as other natural resources. If we can derive our
 energy from the wind, why is it not as good as to get it from coal?
 In the 1890's a good windmill could supply running water in the rural
 home and much-needed water for irrigation and livestock. Regardless
 of any vulnerabilities in our electrical grid, the wind will always
 be with us, and the information in this booklet is as valuable today
 as it was more than a hundred years ago. As the author, Mr. Barbour
 put it, ...it is the windmill which makes it possible for the
 resident of the town, or the farm and ranch to enjoy one of the
 luxuries and conveniences of the city home. Such water service is
 cheap and satisfactory.
 
 For that reason we feel it is important that this information be
 preserved and passed along, and we are glad to reproduce the entire
 text and all illustrations of this important booklet here. - New
 Earth Digest
 
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-- 
 Pagandai V Pannirselvam
Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN
Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CT
Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC

Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário
CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Residence :
Av  Odilon gome de lima, 2951,
   Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
   Capim  Macio
EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210
32171557
Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 
residencia 32171557

 Cellular  84  88145083

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Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Ethanol from corn vs Biodiesel from soy,etc.

2005-07-11 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
 Helo Bob

   Biodiesel can be made an intergrated way  to produce  defated
soyabens for  beef meat substuite and the oil can be directly or via
transesterication  to produce Biodiesel.As peanut , soybeans as
leguminas , they can surely improve the sutainable  enegy and food
production.Now days we rae using soyproteins for animal
feed.Sustainable  small scale farming and small scale industries  are
social technology where as big mechanised  farming and large scale 
industries  prefer ethanol as   apposed to smaller .Integrating small
and big  can be also done  by very good goverment to make  sustianble 
devleopments .Surely Biodiesel can win over  etanol production from
ecological and economic point of view.

sd
Panniselvam


On 7/8/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
 
 -- Forwarded message --
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 18:14:53 EDT
 Subject: Ethanol from corn vs Biodiesel from soy,etc.
 I have read various estimates about the net fuel gain from the production of
 ethanol from corn vs the production of biodiesel from soy.   (I'm aware that
 ethanol and biodiesel can be produced from other sources as well, but corn
 and soy seem to be dominate in the US.)   While the estimates vary, I would
 say that consistently the estimates for soy biodiesel are considerably more
 favorable than for corn ethanol.  I'm poorly informed on the economics of
 farming, but it would seem that farmers/ag corporations would see a greater
 profit potential in biodiesel, and that that would be good for the public at
 large as well.   
  
 Does anyone have any thoughts/information on why farmers wouldn't switch
 from corn to soy for the biofuel market?  Is it a matter of market, in the
 sense that there's more demand for the ethanol?  Of the infrastructure cost
 of switching?  Or?
  
 I apologize if there is information on this topic in the archives and that I
 was too inept to find it, and I apologize if my questions are naive.   It
 seems to me that biofuels will play a critical role in the national
 security, economy, environment, and human welfare in many countries and I'm
 trying to educate myself on the issues.
  

 Bob
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-- 
 Pagandai V Pannirselvam
Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN
Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CT
Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC

Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário
CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Residence :
Av  Odilon gome de lima, 2951,
   Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
   Capim  Macio
EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210
32171557
Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 
residencia 32171557

 Cellular  84  88145083

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Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from animal waste

2005-07-11 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
Helo

 Because  pig waste  has 80 porcent  water , biogasification will
be the correct choice  followed by termal cracking/gasification .Thus
the energy input can be minized as  rapid bioconversion  is also the
comercial process.
Energy balance can  make the etanol process  less competitive related
with natural gas compression , which is simple , can be  built easily 
with  suatianble coproducts. The the effluents is rich  2 time in
protein  as  animal feed can be  much more sustainable  to prevent
polution

sd
Panniselvam P V

On 7/9/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Robert mentioned his concern over the masses of animal waste
 pouring into the rivers. I found these articles showing how in N
 Carolina they are starting to make pig waste into ethanol. Has
 anyone researched this area?
 Marilyn
 
 
 http://mark.asci.ncsu.edu/SwineReports/2001/03manbrett.htm
 
 Formation of Fuel-Grade Ethanol
 from Swine Waste via Gasification
 
 B. Kaspers, J. Koger, R. Gould[1], A. Wossink[2], R. Edens[2],
 and T. van Kempen
 
 Summary
 The objective of this project is to investigate the application of
 gasification technologies to the treatment of swine waste for the
 ultimate production of fuel-grade ethanol.  This waste treatment
 system would reduce the negative environmental impact of
 current manure management systems.  The research objectives
 are: 1) to develop and test a system for harvesting swine manure
 in a form dry enough to be used as a gasification feedstock, 2) to
 establish the feasibility and the gasification conditions for the
 swine waste/amendments feedstock, 3) to characterize the end
 products of gasification (ethanol and mineral ash) and their
 potential markets, and 4) to conduct a rigorous economic
 analysis on the entire swine manure management model to
 determine its feasibility along with the factors that promote or
 impede its implementation.
 
 Introduction
 Ethanol production (primarily via fermentative methods) from
 crops and other renewable biomass sources has received
 much attention recently, but the current approach has problems.
 Mainly, crop-based feedstocks are subject to seasonal
 fluctuations in supply, ultimately limiting ethanol generation.
 Such feedstocks necessitate either lengthy storage of the
 perishable plant materials or stopping ethanol production
 altogether during the off-season.  Another dilemma faced is that
 some of the feedstocks currently used in ethanol production (e.g.
 corn stubble) have a greater value elsewhere (e.g. fertilizer).
 More specifically, the energy cost in harvesting these feedstocks
 (e.g. corn stubble) as well as their lost value as soil
 amendments makes ethanol production costly to farmers
 (Pimental, 1992). Animal manures avoid many of these
 problems because they are a truly renewable feedstock.
 
 The quantity of swine manure produced in the U.S, estimated at
 5 billion kg dry matter per year, is sufficient to contribute
 substantially to ethanol supplies.  Assuming a conversion
 efficiency of 40%, there is a theoretical ethanol yield of 500
 million gallons per year.  North Carolina is the second largest
 hog-producing state within the U.S. with a swine population
 large enough for gasification technology to be feasible.  Thus,
 ethanol production of 80 million gallons per year should
 theoretically be attainable. The most recent RFA (Renewable
 Fuels Association) Ethanol Report (May 11, 2000) concludes that
 replacing corn with less expensive feedstocks will result in
 substantial reductions in ethanol production costs.
 
 Gasification of biomass has received much attention as a
 means to convert waste materials to a variety of energy forms
 (i.e. electricity, combustible gases, synfuels, various fuel
 alcohols, etc.).  Gasification is a two-step, endothermic process
 in which solid fuel is thermochemically converted into a low or
 medium Btu gas.  Pyrolysis (Step 1) of the biomass is followed
 by either direct or indirect oxygen-deprived combustion (Step 2)
 during the gasification process.  This process converts raw
 biomass into a combustible gas, retaining 60-70 % of the
 feedstock's original energy content.  Thermochem's steam
 reformer is the system we are investigating to gasify our
 feedstock because this type of gasifier produces a
 hydrogen-rich, medium-Btu fuel gas.  This gasifier design
 percolates superheated steam through an indirectly heated inert
 fluidized bed of sand or a mineral material.  The organic
 feedstock injected into the bed undergoes a rapid sequence of
 pyrolysis and vaporization reactions.  Higher hydrocarbons
 released among the pyrolysis products are steam cracked and
 partially reformed to produce low molecular weight species.
 This process produces a gas with nearly immeasurable
 environmental emissions of NOx, SOx, CO, and particulates. The
 main reason this particular gasifier design is favored is because
 of its hydrogen to carbon ratio (2:1) is ideal for ethanol synthesis.
 A 

Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel and WVO in all liquid cooled Diesel engines?

2005-07-11 Thread Pannirselvam P.V
  Helow Jason Graves

   Becuase several information you get confused .The more sure what
you want , here in this  following list arquives you can find what you
want.

 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  As I undestand , first you need to work  raw materil to get  clear
oil filter it , remove water , try using  a mixture upto 20 pocent
oil, 5 pocent gasoline to reduce  the visscosity and PH  the rest
petro diesel .

   Then you  can think of buying  the eletric heater kit or heat
exchanger system from  some reliable suppliers.

  Finally you can make  your own Biodiesel so taht there is no need to modify .

Sincerly
Pannirselvcam 
Brasil




On 7/10/05, graveshouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,
  
 I've been looking at different ways to use diesel motors in my lifestyle,
 burning biodiesel and/or WVO.  I've run into several people who've said that
 this or that particular motor won't burn biodiesel.  I'm confused, since I'm
 fairly sure I've read here and other places that ANY diesel motor with
 liquid cooling can burn bio and I believe WVO (with modifications, ie xtra
 fuel tank, straining grease and heating it to 160 F ) with slight
 modifications to take into account the solvency of bio.  I'm wanting to burn
 it in my Kubota tractor (new to me, 20+ years old), a replacement pickup for
 my farm and a perhaps smaller engine to run an electrical generator.
 Please let me know, am I right and these people just don't want to take the
 chance of being wrong (telling me it can burn bio if it can't) or are wrong?
  Please also tell me again what modifications to need to be made (specific
 hose types to change, etc).  
 Thank you for your input.  Sincerely, Jason Graves
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-- 
 Pagandai V Pannirselvam
Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN
Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CT
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