Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Revealed: Why Germans Oppose War in Iraq - French Fries - OT
Keith, I've just got to pick you over this: #There's an apparent misclassification of water pollution standards in Germany, where the risk from rapeseed oil is not even classified, whereas biodiesel is a class 1 hazard, and fossil diesel is in class 2 (worse). It only refers to water pollution and no other aspects of toxicity or hazard. # I like the German WGK system. It makes sure that people get clean water to drink without pollutants and they've got a good understanding of the importance of the relationship of forests and water. Biodiesel is a pretty serious pollutant (in water) as it biodegrades so rapidly by water organism which themselves strip the oxygen from the water (Biological Oxygen Demand or BOD) and kills everything else. Longer chained BD esters also require more oxygen to degrade than shorter chain diesel and have a high Chemical OD. Even household soaps, like greases also, have a very serious polluting effect and are also made from vegetable/animal oils. #This doesn't make sense, a biodiesel spill would be less of a problem than a spill of vegetable oil, which coats everything, like fossil oil does.# In soils yes. All three would cause anaerobic conditions initially but dino diesel would remain undegraded for a long time. I could show you a site of a thirty year old diesel spill here in North Wales where its still anaerobic and lifeless. On the other hand I purposely put BD in my compost heap to see what happened and after six months I had some pretty good mulch for my garden. #In fact biodiesel is used to clean up marine oil spills.# What a waste! So tell me, just which one of the oil companies clean up their oil spills at sea? There are far better systems for oil recovery anyway though they're rarely used. I've heard of this before and I can't see the logic behind it - you end up with a solution of crude oil in esters. Now picking it up is the problem Dave -- David Preskett, BSc (Hons.), AIWSc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reduce - reuse - recycle University of Wales BioComposites Centre Deiniol Road Bangor Gwynedd LL57 2UW http://www.bc.bangor.ac.uk Tel +44 (0)1248-370588 Fax: +44 (0)1248-370594 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/jd3IAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Revealed: Why Germans Oppose War in Iraq - French Fries - OT
Hello David Keith, I've just got to pick you over this: #There's an apparent misclassification of water pollution standards in Germany, where the risk from rapeseed oil is not even classified, whereas biodiesel is a class 1 hazard, and fossil diesel is in class 2 (worse). It only refers to water pollution and no other aspects of toxicity or hazard. # I like the German WGK system. It makes sure that people get clean water to drink without pollutants and they've got a good understanding of the importance of the relationship of forests and water. Biodiesel is a pretty serious pollutant (in water) as it biodegrades so rapidly by water organism which themselves strip the oxygen from the water (Biological Oxygen Demand or BOD) and kills everything else. Longer chained BD esters also require more oxygen to degrade than shorter chain diesel and have a high Chemical OD. Even household soaps, like greases also, have a very serious polluting effect and are also made from vegetable/animal oils. #This doesn't make sense, a biodiesel spill would be less of a problem than a spill of vegetable oil, which coats everything, like fossil oil does.# All the biodiesel fuels are 'readily biodegradable' compounds according to EPA standard (EPA, 1982) and have a relatively high biodegradation rate in the aquatic environment... Biodiesel can promote and speed up the biodegradation of diesel. The more biodiesel present in a biodiesel/diese1 mixture, the faster the degradation rate. The biodegradation pattern in a biodiesel/diesel mixture is that microorganisms metabolize both biodiesel and diesel at the same time and at almost the same rates... Neat rapeseed oil and soybean oil have slightly lower percent degradation. Their higher viscosity may limit their solubility, therefore limit their biodegradability. -- From Biodegradability of Biodiesel in the Aquatic Environment, by Xiulin Zhang, Charles L. Peterson, Daryl Reece, Gregory Mller, Randall Haws, University of Idaho, Moscow, Idaho, USA. http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/mar/mar-009.pdf There are a number of other studies. It biodegrades, yes. At high concentrations that could cause BOD problems, leading to eutrophic water, but NOT to polluted water - I mean with non-biodegradable, toxic pollutants, which is what many European promoters of SVO seem to have decided biodiesel is, apparently via the German water pollution rules. We've had several pointing to the dreadful fact that biodiesel is made with **chemicals!** (aarghh!) and then saying it's as toxic as petrodiesel. Which is BS, and this is where it seems to stem from. On the other hand, what they claim is their untreated pure plant oil has been refined with, er, chemicals, some of the very same chemicals in fact, and it comes to their tanks compliments of, not pure plants but processing plants. And it biodegrades less readily than biodiesel does, in water. The German rating is a misclassification. In soils yes. All three would cause anaerobic conditions initially but dino diesel would remain undegraded for a long time. I could show you a site of a thirty year old diesel spill here in North Wales where its still anaerobic and lifeless. On the other hand I purposely put BD in my compost heap to see what happened and after six months I had some pretty good mulch for my garden. Aren't you contradicting itself? It's better if it doesn't biodegrade? Yes, I know it composts easily. It can be composted much faster than six months. #In fact biodiesel is used to clean up marine oil spills.# What a waste! So tell me, just which one of the oil companies clean up their oil spills at sea? I know of marinas that use it in harbours. There are far better systems for oil recovery anyway though they're rarely used. And so? The point isn't whether there are better systems or not but whether biodiesel is a toxic hazard in water. It's not a toxic hazard, and it's used to clean up oil spills, like I said. I've heard of this before and I can't see the logic behind it - you end up with a solution of crude oil in esters. Now picking it up is the problem There seems to be an easy way, I don't know the details of it. Best Keith Dave -- David Preskett, BSc (Hons.), AIWSc Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Revealed: Why Germans Oppose War in Iraq -French Fries - OT
Keith, Do you ever manage to sleep? :-) Dave Keith Addison wrote: Hello David Keith, I've just got to pick you over this: #There's an apparent misclassification of water pollution standards in Germany, where the risk from rapeseed oil is not even classified, whereas biodiesel is a class 1 hazard, and fossil diesel is in class 2 (worse). It only refers to water pollution and no other aspects of toxicity or hazard. # I like the German WGK system. It makes sure that people get clean water to drink without pollutants and they've got a good understanding of the importance of the relationship of forests and water. Biodiesel is a pretty serious pollutant (in water) as it biodegrades so rapidly by water organism which themselves strip the oxygen from the water (Biological Oxygen Demand or BOD) and kills everything else. Longer chained BD esters also require more oxygen to degrade than shorter chain diesel and have a high Chemical OD. Even household soaps, like greases also, have a very serious polluting effect and are also made from vegetable/animal oils. #This doesn't make sense, a biodiesel spill would be less of a problem than a spill of vegetable oil, which coats everything, like fossil oil does.# All the biodiesel fuels are 'readily biodegradable' compounds according to EPA standard (EPA, 1982) and have a relatively high biodegradation rate in the aquatic environment... Biodiesel can promote and speed up the biodegradation of diesel. The more biodiesel present in a biodiesel/diese1 mixture, the faster the degradation rate. The biodegradation pattern in a biodiesel/diesel mixture is that microorganisms metabolize both biodiesel and diesel at the same time and at almost the same rates... Neat rapeseed oil and soybean oil have slightly lower percent degradation. Their higher viscosity may limit their solubility, therefore limit their biodegradability. -- From Biodegradability of Biodiesel in the Aquatic Environment, by Xiulin Zhang, Charles L. Peterson, Daryl Reece, Gregory Mller, Randall Haws, University of Idaho, Moscow, Idaho, USA. http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/mar/mar-009.pdf There are a number of other studies. It biodegrades, yes. At high concentrations that could cause BOD problems, leading to eutrophic water, but NOT to polluted water - I mean with non-biodegradable, toxic pollutants, which is what many European promoters of SVO seem to have decided biodiesel is, apparently via the German water pollution rules. We've had several pointing to the dreadful fact that biodiesel is made with **chemicals!** (aarghh!) and then saying it's as toxic as petrodiesel. Which is BS, and this is where it seems to stem from. On the other hand, what they claim is their untreated pure plant oil has been refined with, er, chemicals, some of the very same chemicals in fact, and it comes to their tanks compliments of, not pure plants but processing plants. And it biodegrades less readily than biodiesel does, in water. The German rating is a misclassification. In soils yes. All three would cause anaerobic conditions initially but dino diesel would remain undegraded for a long time. I could show you a site of a thirty year old diesel spill here in North Wales where its still anaerobic and lifeless. On the other hand I purposely put BD in my compost heap to see what happened and after six months I had some pretty good mulch for my garden. Aren't you contradicting itself? It's better if it doesn't biodegrade? Yes, I know it composts easily. It can be composted much faster than six months. #In fact biodiesel is used to clean up marine oil spills.# What a waste! So tell me, just which one of the oil companies clean up their oil spills at sea? I know of marinas that use it in harbours. There are far better systems for oil recovery anyway though they're rarely used. And so? The point isn't whether there are better systems or not but whether biodiesel is a toxic hazard in water. It's not a toxic hazard, and it's used to clean up oil spills, like I said. I've heard of this before and I can't see the logic behind it - you end up with a solution of crude oil in esters. Now picking it up is the problem There seems to be an easy way, I don't know the details of it. Best Keith Dave -- David Preskett, BSc (Hons.), AIWSc Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- David Preskett, BSc (Hons.), AIWSc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reduce - reuse - recycle University of Wales BioComposites Centre Deiniol Road Bangor Gwynedd LL57 2UW
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Revealed: Why Germans Oppose War in Iraq -French Fries - OT
Keith, Do you ever manage to sleep? :-) Oh yes, lovely stuff, sleep. :-) I've certainly spent more time at this keyboard in the last 24 hours than I'd wanted to - enough, other things to do now, have to finish an AT project and start another, and take some photographs of how to make Dubbin (release agent) out of the glyc layer, once I've got it right. Got hot metal in my blood, David, years of working all night on morning newspapers. I often work till dawn and sleep the morning away, when nobody's around anyway, so people think I'm a stranger to the arms of Morpheus. Not at all. Best Keith Dave Keith Addison wrote: Hello David Keith, I've just got to pick you over this: #There's an apparent misclassification of water pollution standards in Germany, where the risk from rapeseed oil is not even classified, whereas biodiesel is a class 1 hazard, and fossil diesel is in class 2 (worse). It only refers to water pollution and no other aspects of toxicity or hazard. # I like the German WGK system. It makes sure that people get clean water to drink without pollutants and they've got a good understanding of the importance of the relationship of forests and water. Biodiesel is a pretty serious pollutant (in water) as it biodegrades so rapidly by water organism which themselves strip the oxygen from the water (Biological Oxygen Demand or BOD) and kills everything else. Longer chained BD esters also require more oxygen to degrade than shorter chain diesel and have a high Chemical OD. Even household soaps, like greases also, have a very serious polluting effect and are also made from vegetable/animal oils. #This doesn't make sense, a biodiesel spill would be less of a problem than a spill of vegetable oil, which coats everything, like fossil oil does.# All the biodiesel fuels are 'readily biodegradable' compounds according to EPA standard (EPA, 1982) and have a relatively high biodegradation rate in the aquatic environment... Biodiesel can promote and speed up the biodegradation of diesel. The more biodiesel present in a biodiesel/diese1 mixture, the faster the degradation rate. The biodegradation pattern in a biodiesel/diesel mixture is that microorganisms metabolize both biodiesel and diesel at the same time and at almost the same rates... Neat rapeseed oil and soybean oil have slightly lower percent degradation. Their higher viscosity may limit their solubility, therefore limit their biodegradability. -- From Biodegradability of Biodiesel in the Aquatic Environment, by Xiulin Zhang, Charles L. Peterson, Daryl Reece, Gregory Mller, Randall Haws, University of Idaho, Moscow, Idaho, USA. http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/mar/mar-009.pdf There are a number of other studies. It biodegrades, yes. At high concentrations that could cause BOD problems, leading to eutrophic water, but NOT to polluted water - I mean with non-biodegradable, toxic pollutants, which is what many European promoters of SVO seem to have decided biodiesel is, apparently via the German water pollution rules. We've had several pointing to the dreadful fact that biodiesel is made with **chemicals!** (aarghh!) and then saying it's as toxic as petrodiesel. Which is BS, and this is where it seems to stem from. On the other hand, what they claim is their untreated pure plant oil has been refined with, er, chemicals, some of the very same chemicals in fact, and it comes to their tanks compliments of, not pure plants but processing plants. And it biodegrades less readily than biodiesel does, in water. The German rating is a misclassification. In soils yes. All three would cause anaerobic conditions initially but dino diesel would remain undegraded for a long time. I could show you a site of a thirty year old diesel spill here in North Wales where its still anaerobic and lifeless. On the other hand I purposely put BD in my compost heap to see what happened and after six months I had some pretty good mulch for my garden. Aren't you contradicting itself? It's better if it doesn't biodegrade? Yes, I know it composts easily. It can be composted much faster than six months. #In fact biodiesel is used to clean up marine oil spills.# What a waste! So tell me, just which one of the oil companies clean up their oil spills at sea? I know of marinas that use it in harbours. There are far better systems for oil recovery anyway though they're rarely used. And so? The point isn't whether there are better systems or not but whether biodiesel is a toxic hazard in water. It's not a toxic hazard, and it's used to clean up oil spills, like I said. I've heard of this before and I can't see the logic behind it - you end up with a solution of crude oil in esters. Now picking it up is the problem There seems to be an easy way,
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Revealed: Why Germans Oppose War in Iraq - French Fries - OT
I believe that CytoCulture out here in CA is using BD for remediation: http://www.cytoculture.com/process.html James On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, David Preskett wrote: Keith, I've just got to pick you over this: #There's an apparent misclassification of water pollution standards in Germany, where the risk from rapeseed oil is not even classified, whereas biodiesel is a class 1 hazard, and fossil diesel is in class 2 (worse). It only refers to water pollution and no other aspects of toxicity or hazard. # I like the German WGK system. It makes sure that people get clean water to drink without pollutants and they've got a good understanding of the importance of the relationship of forests and water. Biodiesel is a pretty serious pollutant (in water) as it biodegrades so rapidly by water organism which themselves strip the oxygen from the water (Biological Oxygen Demand or BOD) and kills everything else. Longer chained BD esters also require more oxygen to degrade than shorter chain diesel and have a high Chemical OD. Even household soaps, like greases also, have a very serious polluting effect and are also made from vegetable/animal oils. #This doesn't make sense, a biodiesel spill would be less of a problem than a spill of vegetable oil, which coats everything, like fossil oil does.# In soils yes. All three would cause anaerobic conditions initially but dino diesel would remain undegraded for a long time. I could show you a site of a thirty year old diesel spill here in North Wales where its still anaerobic and lifeless. On the other hand I purposely put BD in my compost heap to see what happened and after six months I had some pretty good mulch for my garden. #In fact biodiesel is used to clean up marine oil spills.# What a waste! So tell me, just which one of the oil companies clean up their oil spills at sea? There are far better systems for oil recovery anyway though they're rarely used. I've heard of this before and I can't see the logic behind it - you end up with a solution of crude oil in esters. Now picking it up is the problem Dave -- David Preskett, BSc (Hons.), AIWSc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reduce - reuse - recycle University of Wales BioComposites Centre Deiniol Road Bangor Gwynedd LL57 2UW http://www.bc.bangor.ac.uk Tel +44 (0)1248-370588 Fax: +44 (0)1248-370594 Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Revealed: Why Germans Oppose War in Iraq - French Fries - OT
I believe that CytoCulture out here in CA is using BD for remediation: http://www.cytoculture.com/process.html James Thankyou James. I often think I should pay more attention to CytoCulture, there seem to be some good folks there. Mark was just saying something about them on the other list. Regards Keith On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, David Preskett wrote: Keith, I've just got to pick you over this: #There's an apparent misclassification of water pollution standards in Germany, where the risk from rapeseed oil is not even classified, whereas biodiesel is a class 1 hazard, and fossil diesel is in class 2 (worse). It only refers to water pollution and no other aspects of toxicity or hazard. # I like the German WGK system. It makes sure that people get clean water to drink without pollutants and they've got a good understanding of the importance of the relationship of forests and water. Biodiesel is a pretty serious pollutant (in water) as it biodegrades so rapidly by water organism which themselves strip the oxygen from the water (Biological Oxygen Demand or BOD) and kills everything else. Longer chained BD esters also require more oxygen to degrade than shorter chain diesel and have a high Chemical OD. Even household soaps, like greases also, have a very serious polluting effect and are also made from vegetable/animal oils. #This doesn't make sense, a biodiesel spill would be less of a problem than a spill of vegetable oil, which coats everything, like fossil oil does.# In soils yes. All three would cause anaerobic conditions initially but dino diesel would remain undegraded for a long time. I could show you a site of a thirty year old diesel spill here in North Wales where its still anaerobic and lifeless. On the other hand I purposely put BD in my compost heap to see what happened and after six months I had some pretty good mulch for my garden. #In fact biodiesel is used to clean up marine oil spills.# What a waste! So tell me, just which one of the oil companies clean up their oil spills at sea? There are far better systems for oil recovery anyway though they're rarely used. I've heard of this before and I can't see the logic behind it - you end up with a solution of crude oil in esters. Now picking it up is the problem Dave -- David Preskett, BSc (Hons.), AIWSc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reduce - reuse - recycle University of Wales BioComposites Centre Deiniol Road Bangor Gwynedd LL57 2UW http://www.bc.bangor.ac.uk Tel +44 (0)1248-370588 Fax: +44 (0)1248-370594 Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: Revealed: Why Germans Oppose War in Iraq - French Fries - OT
snip Anyway, US sucks , too, when it comes to biodiesel, but at least there is a chance, expensive one, but still there is-- join the ¤%$¤$ed up biodiesel board inc, and you can make and sell biodiesel. Try that in germany-- your hair will go grey, and maybe your kids will run the business untill you get all the permits, lol. This is not true! The EPA and NBB did not read their own documentation.. small producers (smaller than 10million $$ per year) only have to pass an ASTM spec test, which is considerably less expensicve than qualifying for Tier1! Look further back on this list for confirmation. --T Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Revealed: Why Germans Oppose War in Iraq - French Fries - OT
Biodiesel and rapse oil is not a problem-- methanol is. And anything related with it. Just to buy a methanol from a lab supply store you have to show your passport. I tried. And you are right-- water polution laws in Germany( and not only water polution, any polution) are very strict. Just a fact that you legaly are not allowed to change your tire on the curb(in case of a tire accident)(of course, people do it, but according to the law, it is a no no) because you can damage the road surface and contaminate the area says something about it. Or try to wash your car in a driveway... I am not pulling this stuff out of my ass- I experienced it myself. That is why I am pissed at German (and EU) governments. Cheers. --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Anyway, US sucks , too, when it comes to biodiesel, but at least there is a chance, expensive one, but still there is-- join the §%$§$ed up biodiesel board inc, and you can make and sell biodiesel. Try that in germany-- your hair will go grey, and maybe your kids will run the business untill you get all the permits, lol. This is not true! The EPA and NBB did not read their own documentation.. small producers (smaller than 10million $$ per year) only have to pass an ASTM spec test, which is considerably less expensicve than qualifying for Tier1! Look further back on this list for confirmation. --T Or so they now say. It hasn't happened yet though, AFAIK, it still needs a test case. What prevents people making their own biodiesel for own-use in Germany? Yet there's nothing to stop you using SVO or WVO (which isn't even taxed)? Is it something to do with the weird pollution laws? There's an apparent misclassification of water pollution standards in Germany, where the risk from rapeseed oil is not even classified, whereas biodiesel is a class 1 hazard, and fossil diesel is in class 2 (worse). It only refers to water pollution and no other aspects of toxicity or hazard. This doesn't make sense, a biodiesel spill would be less of a problem than a spill of vegetable oil, which coats everything, like fossil oil does. In fact biodiesel is used to clean up marine oil spills. Best Keith __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/jd3IAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Revealed: Why Germans Oppose War in Iraq - French Fries - OT
Hi Thomas Biodiesel and rapse oil is not a problem-- methanol is. And anything related with it. Ethyl esters? Just to buy a methanol from a lab supply store you have to show your passport. I tried. And you are right-- water polution laws in Germany( and not only water polution, any polution) are very strict. Well, that's not strict, it's simply wrong. I'd like to know what it's based on, as there's so much evidence to the contrary. Just a fact that you legaly are not allowed to change your tire on the curb(in case of a tire accident)(of course, people do it, but according to the law, it is a no no) because you can damage the road surface and contaminate the area says something about it. Or try to wash your car in a driveway... I am not pulling this stuff out of my ass- I experienced it myself. That is why I am pissed at German (and EU) governments. :-( Too many rules, eh? Too much bureaucracy. But the Americans also complain very loudly about that happening there, certainly with some justification. Methinks it's a worldwide malaise. In the industrialized countries anyway. Keith Cheers. --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Anyway, US sucks , too, when it comes to biodiesel, but at least there is a chance, expensive one, but still there is-- join the §%$§$ed up biodiesel board inc, and you can make and sell biodiesel. Try that in germany-- your hair will go grey, and maybe your kids will run the business untill you get all the permits, lol. This is not true! The EPA and NBB did not read their own documentation.. small producers (smaller than 10million $$ per year) only have to pass an ASTM spec test, which is considerably less expensicve than qualifying for Tier1! Look further back on this list for confirmation. --T Or so they now say. It hasn't happened yet though, AFAIK, it still needs a test case. What prevents people making their own biodiesel for own-use in Germany? Yet there's nothing to stop you using SVO or WVO (which isn't even taxed)? Is it something to do with the weird pollution laws? There's an apparent misclassification of water pollution standards in Germany, where the risk from rapeseed oil is not even classified, whereas biodiesel is a class 1 hazard, and fossil diesel is in class 2 (worse). It only refers to water pollution and no other aspects of toxicity or hazard. This doesn't make sense, a biodiesel spill would be less of a problem than a spill of vegetable oil, which coats everything, like fossil oil does. In fact biodiesel is used to clean up marine oil spills. Best Keith Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Revealed: Why Germans Oppose War in Iraq - French Fries - OT
I'm glad we are not so restrictive in most parts of the US. Methanol is widely available, tire changing can be done wherever you get a flat, and car washing can be done almost anywhere, anytime unless we are having a drought. selling biofuels seems to be one of the few restrictions Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Thomas Stoskus [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:35 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Revealed: Why Germans Oppose War in Iraq - French Fries - OT Biodiesel and rapse oil is not a problem-- methanol is. And anything related with it. Just to buy a methanol from a lab supply store you have to show your passport. I tried. And you are right-- water polution laws in Germany( and not only water polution, any polution) are very strict. Just a fact that you legaly are not allowed to change your tire on the curb(in case of a tire accident)(of course, people do it, but according to the law, it is a no no) because you can damage the road surface and contaminate the area says something about it. Or try to wash your car in a driveway... I am not pulling this stuff out of my ass- I experienced it myself. That is why I am pissed at German (and EU) governments. Cheers. --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Anyway, US sucks , too, when it comes to biodiesel, but at least there is a chance, expensive one, but still there is-- join the ¤%$¤$ed up biodiesel board inc, and you can make and sell biodiesel. Try that in germany-- your hair will go grey, and maybe your kids will run the business untill you get all the permits, lol. This is not true! The EPA and NBB did not read their own documentation.. small producers (smaller than 10million $$ per year) only have to pass an ASTM spec test, which is considerably less expensicve than qualifying for Tier1! Look further back on this list for confirmation. --T Or so they now say. It hasn't happened yet though, AFAIK, it still needs a test case. What prevents people making their own biodiesel for own-use in Germany? Yet there's nothing to stop you using SVO or WVO (which isn't even taxed)? Is it something to do with the weird pollution laws? There's an apparent misclassification of water pollution standards in Germany, where the risk from rapeseed oil is not even classified, whereas biodiesel is a class 1 hazard, and fossil diesel is in class 2 (worse). It only refers to water pollution and no other aspects of toxicity or hazard. This doesn't make sense, a biodiesel spill would be less of a problem than a spill of vegetable oil, which coats everything, like fossil oil does. In fact biodiesel is used to clean up marine oil spills. Best Keith __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/jd3IAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
