[Biofuel] Animal Fat
Hi All I have access to a source of animal fat that is used for deep frying I have tried to make biodiesel from it but only succeed in producing a very soapy gloop I used the ratios from Mike Pelly's reciepe Is there a difference between using animal fat and wast veggie oil? HelpSend instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal Fat
No real difference between the two, at least not relative to making fuel. The suggestion would be to use KOH instead of NaOH for starters. That should help end your thickening/soap issue. Don't jump the gun with large batches until you get the small stuff right if you're still having problems. Todd Swearingen leo bunyan wrote: Hi All I have access to a source of animal fat that is used for deep frying I have tried to make biodiesel from it but only succeed in producing a very soapy gloop I used the ratios from Mike Pelly's reciepe Is there a difference between using animal fat and wast veggie oil? Help Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.4/319 - Release Date: 4/19/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal Fat
Animal fat (tallow) has a different chemical make-up than vegetable oil. You need to do much more purification. You get soap (glycerin) like results with vegetable oil, just not as much. I think that if you use a stronger caustic agent to separate mixture components, you may have more success. Randall ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal Fat
Tallow, lard, butter, vege oil, etc. are all the same chemically save very, very minor differences which don't impact the transesterification reaction. fats and oils are treated the same as to volume of methanol, reaction time, and amount of catalyst. Impurities, mainly water present, will impact yields, and soap production, but starting with relatively pure oils and fats requires no different treatment. Randall Phelps wrote: Animal fat (tallow) has a different chemical make-up than vegetable oil. You need to do much more purification. You get soap (glycerin) like results with vegetable oil, just not as much. I think that if you use a stronger caustic agent to separate mixture components, you may have more success. Randall ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal Fat
Stronger caustic agent? As in NaOH vs KOH? You're aware that saturated phats and oils tend to make harder soaps and that NaOH contributes to that end even further? Using the general method of self-mixing the methanol and caustic, as most grassroots and small scale brewers do, there is also the matter of water formation in the methoxide solution. Once mixed it is no longer anhydrous, with the water contributing an even greater propensity towards the formation of soaps. Combining factors such as the greater ratio of saturated glycerides, enhanced soap formation due to the unavoidable presence of water (unless the methoxide is dried with zeolytes or a distillation column prior to use), harder soaps due to the use of NaOH and the common practice of overdosing caustic as insurance by new initiates to biodiesel and the groupies of others who prescribe the method as a guaranteed cure-all, there will be inevitable and needless occurences of failed reactions due to the formation of glop soap. Animal phats do need to be rendered thouroughly to remove as much proteinacious material as possible prior to processing. But the chemical make-up is essentially no different than any other trigyceride, other than the ratio of saturated acids to unsaturated acids. It's the ratio of fatty acids to each other that defines an oil or phat, giving each its general properties. As to lesser glycerol volumes from phats vs oils? The volume doesn't differ, as a triglyceride is a triglyceride, no matter whether it's derived from a vegetable or animal source. What might give the appearance of greater or lesser glycerin is the volume of surrounding soaps that drop out of a transesterification along with the glycerol. This strata is not just glycerol, but a cocktail of numerous products, which seems to be a rather large misunderstanding in the grassroots sector See http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycsep.html Todd Swearingen . Randall Phelps wrote: Animal fat (tallow) has a different chemical make-up than vegetable oil. You need to do much more purification. You get soap (glycerin) like results with vegetable oil, just not as much. I think that if you use a stronger caustic agent to separate mixture components, you may have more success. Randall ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal Fat
I have processed 100% virgin beef tallow fat with the 2 stage base - base process with great sucess. I used 200 ml methanol / liter fat and 6.7 g NaOH Processed for 2 x 2hours at 58 - 60 deg C. That batched washed better and easier then any other WVO I had dealt with The only drawback is cold weather. will crystalize around 15 deg C Otherwise it is great fuel with a light yellow color like the fuel from virgin rapeseed oil. good luck with it. Andrew Animal fat (tallow) has a different chemical make-up than vegetable oil. You need to do much more purification. You get soap (glycerin) like results with vegetable oil, just not as much. I think that if you use a stronger caustic agent to separate mixture components, you may have more success. Randall ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal Fat
Hi, I have also had excellent results from beef tallow using the acid/base two stage process. Although when washing, I thought i was getting loads of soap out even on the third or fourth washes. It turned out that my water was too cold, I was bringing the temperature of the BD down to below 15c and forming waxes. I then washed with lukewarm water and got perfect results, crystal clear wash water on the third wash. Hope this helps. Bob - Original Message - From: Tonomár András [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Animal Fat I have processed 100% virgin beef tallow fat with the 2 stage base - base process with great sucess. I used 200 ml methanol / liter fat and 6.7 g NaOH Processed for 2 x 2hours at 58 - 60 deg C. That batched washed better and easier then any other WVO I had dealt with The only drawback is cold weather. will crystalize around 15 deg C Otherwise it is great fuel with a light yellow color like the fuel from virgin rapeseed oil. good luck with it. Andrew Animal fat (tallow) has a different chemical make-up than vegetable oil. You need to do much more purification. You get soap (glycerin) like results with vegetable oil, just not as much. I think that if you use a stronger caustic agent to separate mixture components, you may have more success. Randall ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal Fat
I stand corrected, sorry to give bad information. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] animal fat
I think you should experiment with some small batches. I get some of my oil from restaurants that fry meat and think 1/3 of the stuff is animal fat. I seperate this thick gravey like stuff from my less viscousoil and heat it up firstto liquify it real good before I do the reaction.some of this stuff is very thick and I call it "the goop"It seems too make good bio-D. though.The only difference being that there are 3 distinct layers after it settles. Bio-D on top, a very thin layer of thick fatty crap, and glycerin on the bottom..DB - Original Message - From: Todd Wootton To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 11:55 AM Subject: [Biofuel] animal fat Speaking of animal fat, I have been approaching quite a few grease traps lately to discover that most of them are filled with thick white grease. It is impossible to pump up as it isn't in a liquid format. As well, even if I was able to obtain the liquid, how do I know if it is animal fat or non liquid shortening? Any suggestions. I am sure that everyone has encountered this. Even at my own restaurant, I use a mix of liquid vegetable oil and shortening to keep costs down but also have quite a bit of bacon grease that is sometimes added to the mix. Can I take care of all of this oil together at the same time using the same process? Todd Wootton[EMAIL PROTECTED]Home Office (905)473-5646Cellular (905)751-8181 No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.9 - Release Date: 11/06/2005 ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] animal fat
Speaking of animal fat, I have been approaching quite a few grease traps lately to discover that most of them are filled with thick white grease. It is impossible to pump up as it isn't in a liquid format. As well, even if I was able to obtain the liquid, how do I know if it is animal fat or non liquid shortening? Any suggestions. I am sure that everyone has encountered this. Even at my own restaurant, I use a mix of liquid vegetable oil and shortening to keep costs down but also have quite a bit of bacon grease that is sometimes added to the mix. Can I take care of all of this oil together at the same time using the same process? Todd Wootton[EMAIL PROTECTED]Home Office (905)473-5646Cellular (905)751-8181 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.9 - Release Date: 11/06/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Animal Fat
Hi you all The investors team have defined we will start our industrial biodiesel production and fuel production using animal fat. I have gone thru several sources and found very litllte info and literature about production strating from animal fat. Can you folks help me on this?? Very best Chico Ramos ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal Fat
I went to a biodiesel convention and saw a booth on animal fat conversion to biodiesel, the process is called rendering. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi you all The investors team have defined we will start our industrial biodiesel production and fuel production using animal fat. I have gone thru several sources and found very litllte info and literature about production strating from animal fat. Can you folks help me on this?? Very best Chico Ramos ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal Fat
Hi Chico There is quite a lot of information about. Just do it, it's no big deal. regards Keith Hi you all The investors team have defined we will start our industrial biodiesel production and fuel production using animal fat. I have gone thru several sources and found very litllte info and literature about production strating from animal fat. Can you folks help me on this?? Very best Chico Ramos ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal fat
James, Doing a careful titration is very important when using a new oil source. Animal fats require more base catalyst. Acid/base is the best way to go for optimum yeild and minimal soap. Diff --- James Gillies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been making biodeisel from WVO for a few years, running a diesel car, a boiler and three tractors. I have used the single stage method to make several thousand litres without a problem. I have recently been offered a significant quantity of animal fat (in Australia Frytol), and while I have plenty of WVO I am reluctant to knock the offer back. I tried a few test batches with it but always seem to come up with an inordinate amount of soap, whatever the NaOH level. Has anyone had success with animal fat? Do any of the other methods, such as acid-base or two stage, give better results with fat? Any help appreciated. James Gillies - Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal fat
I don't know if you'v mentioned this method yet but it might be worth a try it's not for novice biofuel makers. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth It would be worth discussing it with Kieth Addison before attempting it. I think you'll find he's very patient and helpful. JD2005 - Original Message - From: James Gillies I have been making biodeisel from WVO for a few years, running a diesel car, a boiler and three tractors. I have used the single stage method to make several thousand litres without a problem. I have recently been offered a significant quantity of animal fat (in Australia Frytol), and while I have plenty of WVO I am reluctant to knock the offer back... ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal fat
can imagine beef tallow lard is a very cheap raw material (250 u$s per ton) and quite esasy to purchase. I 've made only 1 essay and my results havent been as I first expected. Please, if its not a big deal for you, let me know about your progress. Please, forgive my English. Best regards and good luck. I hope we can keep in touch. From Argentina PABLO TAMI, Agricultural Engineer, 47 years old. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: James Gillies [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 7:28 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Animal fat I have been making biodeisel from WVO for a few years, running a diesel car, a boiler and three tractors. I have used the single stage method to make several thousand litres without a problem. I have recently been offered a significant quantity of animal fat (in Australia Frytol), and while I have plenty of WVO I am reluctant to knock the offer back. I tried a few test batches with it but always seem to come up with an inordinate amount of soap, whatever the NaOH level. Has anyone had success with animal fat? Do any of the other methods, such as acid-base or two stage, give better results with fat? Any help appreciated. James Gillies - Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Animal fat
fats measure high on tritration, but I've tempered this by using 50/50 WVO and animal fat. This lowers the titration. The down side is the yeild isn't as high as WVO. The method I use is the single base method. I haven't tried a acid/base method yet. Let you know my results Chrispy ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Animal fat
I have been making biodeisel from WVO for a few years, running a diesel car, a boiler and three tractors. I have used the single stage method to make several thousand litres without a problem. I have recently been offered a significant quantity of animal fat (in Australia Frytol), and while I have plenty of WVO I am reluctant to knock the offer back. I tried a few test batches with it but always seem to come up with an inordinate amount of soap, whatever the NaOH level. Has anyone had success with animal fat? Do any of the other methods, such as acid-base or two stage, give better results with fat? Any help appreciated. James Gillies - Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[biofuel] Animal Fat to Biofuel
Saria Bio-Industries of Germany has built the world's first animal biodiesel plant with a capacity to produce about 10 million liters per year. Cow carcasses are the primary feedstock, from which fat and meal are extracted and separated. The fat is converted into biodiesel using a process that yields clear and odorless fuel and the meal is packaged into pellets to be used as a solid fuel to be burnt for thermal energy. I'm unaware of any urls related to this subject which I found this morning in the print edition of the Vancouver Province. Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
