Re: [Biofuel] Propane Water Heating (was Lignin crop redidue breakdown)
Brian, my summer place is also in the forest. I'd rather use solar directly than harvest wood any day. It's simply the time saved and physical effort expended. I do cut trees when I have to, and wood is also our primary heat source at the summer place, not that it needs a lot given the seasonal use (May to October). You can definitely go with the closed dual loop system. I usually recommend the in- line system to people first because it is cheap and relatively easy to install and maintain. Payback on the batch heater was under a year. Payback on dual loop systems (for hot water anyway) is typically five to ten years. The batch heater can be done in a weekend as a do-it-yourself project. Closed dual loop systems usually have to be done by professionals, and take considerably more effort and materials. However, it sounds like you have a big head start over most folks in this area. By freezing season I mean real hard frosts. A dip below freezing won't hurt the system - it has enough thermal mass to handle that. Ground water hereabouts is about 6 degrees C. I figure if the pre-heater isn't doing better than that most days in the morning (our biggest hot water usage time), the season is over for another year; not gaining anything from it at that point. By the way, damn cold here is below minus 40 (C or F). From -40 to -20 C (-40 to 0 F) is cold, -20 C to 0 C (0 to 30 F) is a nice winter day. Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you for the helpful feedback Darryl. I followed your advice and read the archived email http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg25952.html and I am indeed intrigued with the simple solar water pre-heater. Hmm, I know I've written something more detailed - let me know if you want me to dig for it.) I need to learn how to better search the JTF archives anyway. But, thanks for the offer. This does give me direction We use a simple batch pre-heater from May to October (non-freezing season here) and it cuts our natural gas use almost to zero. It is based on a surplus hot water tank and a patio door. Our freezing season is not all that far off. In the high country of Northern New Mexico it gets damn cold at night. Just the same I know the technology for creating closed loop systems using antifreeze and heat exchangers. On top of that I already have the radiant floor plumbing installed and have been itching to get started on a multiple alternative energy systems for heating the fluid. My first energy source will be wood heat since we live in the forest, but I always had it in the back of my mind to supplement the system with solar energy. Sincerely, Brian Rodgers -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Propane Water Heating (was Lignin crop redidue breakdown)
Brian, I highly recommend you investigate the construction and use of a solar water pre- heater for your hot water heating to reduce your propane consumption. We use a simple batch pre-heater from May to October (non-freezing season here) and it cuts our natural gas use almost to zero. It is based on a surplus hot water tank and a patio door. I can provide more info if you desire. (Actually, I think I have described it before on this list, so it should be in the archives. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg25952.html Hmm, I know I've written something more detailed - let me know if you want me to dig for it.) We have also put additional insulation around our conventional gas hot water tank - extra on the top. snip I gives me a lot of hope for the future. Oh and yip, gonna git some chickens too, because I love eggs and I had chickens before although the coyotes are troublesome here. I think the best thing to do with cellulose is combine it with cow dung as was also suggested here and make our own methane! This sounds really good to me considering that we owe the propane company $185.00 and the tank is at 10%. I shudder at the thought of buying a hundred pounds or gallons or whatever they measure that gas in. I count my blessings that we rely only on propane for the hot water heater and the cook stove. One hundred gallons has lasted for four months, still I need to get my family off of the petro-products nipple. We can not afford it anymore. Brian -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Propane Water Heating (was Lignin crop redidue breakdown)
Thank you for the helpful feedback Darryl. I followed your advice and read the archived email and I am indeed intrigued with the simple solar water pre-heater. Hmm, I know I've written something more detailed - let me know if you want me to dig for it.) I need to learn how to better search the JTF archives anyway. But, thanks for the offer. This does give me direction We use a simple batch pre-heater from May to October (non-freezing season here) and it cuts our natural gas use almost to zero. It is based on a surplus hot water tank and a patio door. Our freezing season is not all that far off. In the high country of Northern New Mexico it gets damn cold at night. Just the same I know the technology for creating closed loop systems using antifreeze and heat exchangers. On top of that I already have the radiant floor plumbing installed and have been itching to get started on a multiple alternative energy systems for heating the fluid. My first energy source will be wood heat since we live in the forest, but I always had it in the back of my mind to supplement the system with solar energy. Sincerely, Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
