don't speak too soon. the ftc just announced rules changes which essentially
augur a redefinition of the internet as a broadcast media.
-chris
In a message dated 6/29/05 8:29:41 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think that if major corporations could have their way, the
Internet would not
Hello Chris
sorry, i forgot who originally wrote this in reply response to my
earlier statement, but i have to echo k's comment.
what you refer to is the 'social contract', as many historians like
to call it, which formed the basis of feudalism. serfs were bound
to their lords, as you say.
I think that the commercial interest behind the government keep trying
to prevent people, consumers from getting together to compare notes,
form consumer spending strategies, etc. As they say, "in union is
strength
". I think that if major corporations could have their way, the
Internet would
sorry, i forgot who originally wrote this in reply response to my earlier statement, but i have to echo k's comment.
what you refer to is the 'social contract', as many historians like to call it, which formed the basis of feudalism. serfs were bound to their lords, as you say. they had to
From: Rousseau, Jean-Jacques: The Social Contract (1762)
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/world_civ_reader/world_civ_reader_2/rousseau.html
"Man is born free; and everywhere he is in chains. One thinks himself the master of others, and still remains a greater slave than they."
Perhaps more
back in the day, travel was not an easy affair (relatively
speaking), given the lack of roads, lodging and transport (other than on
foot), etc., not to mention the income with which to fund such travels.
nevertheless, there wasn't anything to really stop one if one had a mind
to.
Before the
Hi Chris
back in the day, travel was not an easy affair (relatively
speaking), given the lack of roads, lodging and transport (other than on
foot), etc., not to mention the income with which to fund such travels.
nevertheless, there wasn't anything to really stop one if one had a mind
to.
just to elaborate a little further on the example of roads, there wasn't a
lot of investment in them in general; whether for the peasants/serfs or for the
lords. and they--the lords--would have done so had they felt it suited them,
but as keith aptly pointed out, one's affairs were much more
i have to agree.
in this case, the people's homes are being approproated to serve another's
interest. how many of them will enjoy any long-term benefit, such as
employment
with the new firm? few, if any, i supsect.
what's more, the development corp (how many of them, btw, reside in the
I said that too, when someone first pointed out to me that the texts that
the Vikings wrote on the Rune Stones was of old Turkish origin. Then
I was directed to some web sites that dealt with this and it was very
convincing. Too much info and similarities to be a hoax, but I am not sure
hello, hakan.
ok, i thought you meant something along those lines. still, i don't get the
link between the roman legions and the turks. or are you referring to the
byzantines (if so, they didn't have 'legions')?
i'll have to try and google the website you speak of, and see what they say.
btw, hakan, without getting into a whole spiel about the vikings and
linguistics/linguistic origins as well as the turks, there was a corps of
vikings--the
varingian guard--who served the emporors of byzantium. thus they would have
inevitably left relics in what is modern day turkey.
-chris
Chris,
Maybe I am adding more to it than it is, but the connection is there. A
very common
Viking name, that we know existed from the Vikings and I think that it was
a Hakon
in the Ericsson crew, that discovered America. The Roman Empire and their
conscript
armies, was going far up North in
Chris,
The Viking era in the Nordic countries, around 800 ac?
Hakan
At 09:02 PM 6/26/2005, you wrote:
btw, hakan, without getting into a whole spiel about the vikings and
linguistics/linguistic origins as well as the turks, there was a corps of
vikings--the
varingian guard--who served the
You lot want to try living in the UK with our strange rules, you don't
own anything under your own property, water or minerals. One of my
property borders is a river but I can't fish it or extract water, if the
council wants your land you have very little chance of stopping them
taking it. They
OK well, maybe I went a little too far, alluding to the our government as heading toward feudalism. However my frustration is genuine, as is most of yours.
MikeChris Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You lot want to try living in the UK with our strange rules, you don'town anything under your own
PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?
This is not about class or income or about those people. It was
zoned as an industrial area and had been zoned as such for over 75 years.
As far
5:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?
Please reread my original Norman Rockwell-esque comment in context. It's
in a paragraph about the industrial nature of the area in question. Yet
you take it out of context and portray my comment as some sort of class
war
whaa-a-a?!?
In a message dated 6/24/05 12:05:46 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
the Vikings (probably ancestors to Roman legions
from the part that we now know as Turkey)
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Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Hello Samuel
Welcome - sympathies, and strength to yer arm!
I don't doubt your blood is red, but I don't think you're semi-literate.
One other thing... Dogs sure aren't monkeys, but hyenas aren't dogs
either, they're more closely related to bears. Never mind, they'll be
laughing anyway (it's
]
To: mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 7:20 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?
It seems to me that this environmentalism is dead movement is
setting up a straw man and then knocking it down.
It defines environmentalism
Hallo Hakan,
Friday, 24 June, 2005, 05:41:29, you wrote:
Some thoughts below prompted by this mail and the ones leading up to
it but directed generally not at anyone specifically.
HF Rich,
HF I think that you put the finger on the reasons why there are a large
HF mistrust in America by saying
being nit-picky-Chris- Original Message -From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
<mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 7:20 AMSubject: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?It seems to me that th
Hi Gustl,
"Capitalism and Communism, sworn enemies, are now not only in bed together..."
This could really openPandora's box and start a whole new thread on it's own.
Capitalism (IMO) is a kind of social-economic Darwinism which depends on a percentage of the population to be poor and
There should be a middle ground somewhere. I think one of the reasons
communism failed was because it failed to take into people's
motivations. Some people are happy just scraping by but some other
people are more ambitious, they want more, sometimes a lot more.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
feu·dal·ism : the system of political organization prevailing in Europe from
the 9th to about the 15th centuries having as its basis the relation of lord to
vassal with all land held in fee and as chief characteristics homage, the
service of tenants under arms and in court, wardship, and
Yes, but in the 15th century, those dues got you what passed for
national defense and maybe some roads?
Today my taxes cover national defense, roads, trains and airports,
educational services, the court system and social services. They also
provide money to fund scientific research, space
Hi Mike, Gustl
Hi Gustl,
Capitalism and Communism, sworn enemies, are now not only in bed
together...
This could really open Pandora's box and start a whole new thread on it's own.
Capitalism (IMO) is a kind of social-economic Darwinism which
depends on a percentage of the population
In a message dated 6/24/05 1:23:05 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
it's usually
the hyenas that did the killing, then the lions come along and chase
them away and steal the product. Remind you of anything?
lol, yes. as does the fact that the hyenas, when they have a mind to, will
gang up on
Bears!? I should have known that, but liked the sentence too much to think.
Of scavengers and hunters the headlines abound, despite the efforts to
pin smiley faces to the heads of vultures. What has always mystified me
about the parade of the right wing is how blind they are to the
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?
Bears!? I should have known that, but liked the sentence too much to
think.
Of scavengers and hunters the headlines abound, despite the efforts to pin
smiley faces to the heads of vultures. What
research. Getting away
from that was just a bonus.
Brian
- Original Message -
From: John Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?
Yes, but in the 15th century, those dues
wow, sam, that was well said. some on this board write with such skill, it's
quite humbling.
i don't understand the goat reference though. . . .
-chris b.
(yeah, chris n, the thought had crossed my mind as well) :)
___
Biofuel mailing list
?
Again, sorry for using bandwidth here for a purely US cause. I just
didn't know where else to look.
Brian
- Original Message - From: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's
: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?
Bears!? I should have known that, but liked the sentence too much to
think.
Of scavengers and hunters the headlines abound, despite the efforts to pin
smiley faces to the heads of vultures. What has always mystified me about
the parade of the right wing
Our dogs bark at airplanes, and helicopters send them into apoplexy (we
live under the flight path to the SFBay Area) and it is a constant
source of irritation (both the aircraft and the barking). Since the
goats dont bark, and have harder heads to go with a considerable amount
of fearlessness
Gustl,
If anyones comes out clean, I think it is the Swiss. The Swedes had two
periods as world bullies, the Vikings (probably ancestors to Roman legions
from the part that we now know as Turkey) and during the religious wars. It
is not likely that the Swedes will ever get the chance again
Hi John
Yes, but in the 15th century, those dues got you what passed for
national defense and maybe some roads?
Today my taxes cover national defense, roads, trains and airports,
educational services, the court system and social services. They
also provide money to fund scientific research,
- From: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?
Bears!? I should have known that, but liked the sentence too much to
think.
Of scavengers and hunters
PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?
Bears!? I should have known that, but liked the sentence too much to
think.
Of scavengers and hunters the headlines abound, despite the efforts to
pin
Hi Keith.
Sorry if my attempted rhetorical device fell flat. I was just trying to
make two separate points wrapped up in one little sarcastic package;
first, that we actually do get something worthwhile for our taxes and
second, that snarky comparisons to feudel crops tariffs aren't really
Hmm , lets hope someone dosent see
your property as ripe for developement , "for
the public good" , and then I'm shure you
would change your attitude
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Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
You are correct that New London didn't claim the Ft. Trumbell
neighborhood was blighted. However, it's also worth noting that it had been
zoned as an industrial area since *1929* and contained a junkyard, oil tank
farm and railroad yard. This wasn't some treelined Norman Rockwell-esque
"This wasn't some treelined NormanRockwell-esque suburb we're talking about here."
This sounds harmless and in fact seems pretty logical. However, as soon as anyone begins introducing aesthetics into an eminent domain debate, it becomes legitimate to introduce it in all such debates. In my
This is not about class or income or about those people. It was zoned
as an industrial area and had been zoned as such for over 75 years.
As far as living on the wrong side of tracks, my house is on the wrong
side of tracks. I also happen to live in a town with an economic
redevelopment
Fair enough. My point was about the area being zoned as an industrial
area, but I was trying to be colorful in my description.
jh
Michael Redler wrote:
This wasn't some treelined Norman Rockwell-esque suburb we're talking
about here.
This sounds harmless and in fact seems pretty logical.
@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?
This is not about class or income or about those people. It was zoned as
an industrial area and had been zoned as such for over 75 years.
As far as living on the wrong side of tracks
It seems to me that this environmentalism is dead movement is
setting up a straw man and then knocking it down.
It defines environmentalism as a set of isolated responses to isolated
symptoms, and then says that because the symptoms are not being cured,
the response to them is futile. The
Hello Doug
Very eloquent, nice. Mostly I agree, in some ways very much so, but I
think you miss a couple of crucial points, and thus end up with the
wrong conclusion.
One is overpopulation, and the idea that real progress and
constructive change necessarily involve population control. It's
-picky
-Chris
- Original Message -
From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 7:20 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?
It seems to me
Non-American corporations are not any better than American corporations,
but
1. in the past there have been more American corporations operating
overseas.
2. the U.S. government has been pretty ruthless operating in the support
of U.S. corporations, and to promote its Cold War objectives. The
hello doug, chris, hakan. worthwhile discussion (though i'm sure in no way
unprecedented on these boards!).
you make a good point, doug. but even when able to communicate directly with
americans, foreigners are very often unable to get through the thick
prejudices most americans have about
: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?
Chris,
Doug's writing and references represent a clear overview of only a small
part of American policies and relations to towards the global environment.
It is a good explanation on why so many hate Americans, which is in
reality
how well you have expressed this, hakan. and this is the dliemna which i tried to describe, since on the one hand there is such a disconnect, as you so aptly put it. yet, on the other hand far, far too many americans simply shrug at their lack of involvement, and lack of guiltover itsconsequences.
@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 7:20 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Re: Environmentalism is dead. What's next?
It seems to me that this environmentalism is dead movement is
setting up a straw man and then knocking it down.
It defines environmentalism as a set of isolated responses
Title: Message
Regarding ANOTHER
longwinded article...
"Environmentalism is dead. What's next?"
SPEAK FOR YOURSELVES
U.S.A...
KYOTO TREATY PASSED
WITH GUSTO!
effectively
declaring:
CAPITALISM WILL NEVER
BE THE SAME!
sorry you're under the
thumb of a dumb regime. too bad your masses have
To this thread, and by way of introduction,
My name is Samuel Chapin. I live in California, which is at once
U.S. and not at all the U.S. The nearest town is largely Hispanic,
struggling to survive, and for the most part dependent on minimum wage.
In spite of myself I couldnt live anywhere
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