Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
'Lo Marilyn, Joe Thanks for the correction, Joe. I will be more careful from now on to be sure who I am quoting. I think it's mostly Outhouse Express that does it, it defaults to saying that the person whose message you're replying to wrote it, even if it's a url and a news article someone else wrote. How to make a journalist cross. Not just on my account though, it's happened to a lot of people and when I've attacked it it's been as a general rule. Is it OK to just say Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote: and not mention a name when including a response? Why not just say Hi Whoever? If it's not signed there's a name or email address on the original. I'm glad you liked the post otherwise. So did I. I don't blame Keith for being a little testy. Nah, I'm not being testy. Let's see, I sent three posts, two smilers and a grr. But I definitely meant the grr. About time too. We all are these days with what is going on in the world. It's not that Marilyn. There was a time when I got overwhelmed by all the stuff I was staring in the face. It made me angry, I was angry for a few years before I learnt how to smile again. While still looking the same grim stuff in the face. But that was a long time ago. Once in Hong Kong I took a ride in a Kowloon taxi with a driver whose English was a bit like my Cantonese (terrible!), so we got on like a house on fire. He had a good wife and two great children he said, but no money: Drive taxi no money. No money no life, I said (very common Hong Kong saying). No money to die! he said laughing. No face!. Every day I pay $20 for lunch, good food, but no face. But I don't mind! Rich men pay $1000 for lunch, good face. But they forget to smile! So - don't die! And don't forget to smile! I thought that was great - the guy knew everything about life! We smiled the rest of the way. When I got out he said: Don't forget - don't die! I'll try, I said. Don't forget to smile! We went our different ways, both laughing like hell. Regards Keith Marilyn Note: Forwarded Email Message Below: Yeah I didn't write that Marilyn. I did respond to that post though. You must have replied to my post and snipped out my response which I have copied below after the post you erroneously attribute to me. Keith hates it when people do that. I've done it too by accident. Be careful Keith seems a little testy these days especially about the archives BTW great post otherwise :-) I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there are agreements with countries around the world, like the Geneva convention, and who knows what else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities.. I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will chime in. Well what about the military action taken on the Faluja General Hospital? That was an undisputable violation of the Geneva convention. The US government is clearly guilty of international war crimes. I don't understand why the people of that country are not doing anything about this. There are plenty of grounds for impeachment without anyone getting thier lips dirty! Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe Street wrote: I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there are agreements with countries around the world, like the Geneva convention, and who knows what else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities.. I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will chime in. Agreeing to be part of the UN is supposed to mean agreeing not to wage preemptive war. The British are having arguments at high levels in government about the illegality of the Iraq invasion. The article below by an American law professor also talks about treaties, agreements and international law being ignored: Reaping the Whirlwind: Departures from International Law Helped Create Climate for Iraq Prison Abuses JURIST Guest Columnist Michael Kelly of Creighton University School of Law says the Bush Administration's general disregard for international treaties and standards facilitated an atmosphere in which US personnel could flout the Geneva Conventions and abuse Iraqi prisoners... snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Well I'm using Mozzilla not outlook and there are settings for those parameters as well as html etc. Too bad you can't configure it to be sensitive to the mail folder otherwise your only option is to keep changing preferences all the time. Anyways I hope the 'other superpower" will eventually result in some real action being taken on the bullies and warlords one day soon. Then the next challenge will be to stop the next in line from taking the reins and doing it all again. Joe trying to smile and not to die. Keith Addison wrote: 'Lo Marilyn, Joe Thanks for the correction, Joe. I will be more careful from now on to be sure who I am quoting. I think it's mostly Outhouse Express that does it, it defaults to saying that the person whose message you're replying to wrote it, even if it's a url and a news article someone else wrote. How to make a journalist cross. Not just on my account though, it's happened to a lot of people and when I've attacked it it's been as a general rule. Is it OK to just say "Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote:" and not mention a name when including a response? Why not just say Hi Whoever? If it's not signed there's a name or email address on the original. I'm glad you liked the post otherwise. So did I. I don't blame Keith for being a little testy. Nah, I'm not being testy. Let's see, I sent three posts, two smilers and a grr. But I definitely meant the grr. About time too. We all are these days with what is going on in the world. It's not that Marilyn. There was a time when I got overwhelmed by all the stuff I was staring in the face. It made me angry, I was angry for a few years before I learnt how to smile again. While still looking the same grim stuff in the face. But that was a long time ago. Once in Hong Kong I took a ride in a Kowloon taxi with a driver whose English was a bit like my Cantonese (terrible!), so we got on like a house on fire. He had a good wife and two great children he said, but no money: "Drive taxi no money." "No money no life," I said (very common Hong Kong saying). "No money to die!" he said laughing. "No face!. Every day I pay $20 for lunch, good food, but no face. But I don't mind! Rich men pay $1000 for lunch, good face. But they forget to smile! "So - don't die! And don't forget to smile!" I thought that was great - the guy knew everything about life! We smiled the rest of the way. When I got out he said: "Don't forget - don't die!" "I'll try," I said. "Don't forget to smile!" We went our different ways, both laughing like hell. Regards Keith Marilyn Note: Forwarded Email Message Below: Yeah I didn't write that Marilyn. I did respond to that post though. You must have replied to my post and snipped out my response which I have copied below after the post you erroneously attribute to me. Keith hates it when people do that. I've done it too by accident. Be careful Keith seems a little testy these days especially about the archives BTW great post otherwise :-) I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there are agreements with countries around the world, like the Geneva convention, and who knows what else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities.. I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will chime in. Well what about the military action taken on the Faluja General Hospital? That was an undisputable violation of the Geneva convention. The US government is clearly guilty of international war crimes. I don't understand why the people of that country are not doing anything about this. There are plenty of grounds for impeachment without anyone getting thier lips dirty! Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe Street wrote: I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there are agreements with countries around the world, like the Geneva convention, and who knows what else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities.. I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will chime in. Agreeing to be part of the UN is supposed to mean agreeing not to wage preemptive war. The British are having arguments at high levels in government about the illegality of the Iraq invasion. The article below by an American law professor also talks about treaties, agreements and international law being ignored: Reaping the Whirlwind: Departures from International Law Helped Create Climate for Iraq Prison Abuses JURIST Guest Columnist Michael Kelly of Creighton University School of Law says the Bush Administration's general disregard for international treaties and standards facilitated an atmosphere in which US personnel could flout the Geneva Conventions and abuse Iraqi
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Joe Street wrote: I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there are agreements with countries around the world, like the Geneva convention, and who knows what else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities.. I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will chime in. Agreeing to be part of the UN is supposed to mean agreeing not to wage preemptive war. The British are having arguments at high levels in government about the illegality of the Iraq invasion. The article below by an American law professor also talks about treaties, agreements and international law being ignored: Reaping the Whirlwind: Departures from International Law Helped Create Climate for Iraq Prison Abuses JURIST Guest Columnist Michael Kelly of Creighton University School of Law says the Bush Administration's general disregard for international treaties and standards facilitated an atmosphere in which US personnel could flout the Geneva Conventions and abuse Iraqi prisoners... The Bush Administration has consistently signaled for three and a half years that international law does not matter. The American military and civilian personnel at Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad apparently received that signal loud and clear. Not only did they fail to follow the requirements of the Geneva Convention on Treatment of POW's, according to the Red Cross, no copies of the treaty were to be found on-site. The list of high-profile treaties broken or withdrawn by this government is a long one that includes denunciation of the Rome Statute creating the International Criminal Court, pulling out of the Kyoto Protocol to diminish ozone-depleting gases, and unilateral withdrawal from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty over initial Russian objections. An overwhelming majority of nations condemned each of these moves as irresponsible and self-serving, but Washington paid little heed - steadfastly pursuing short-term political gains instead of America's long-term global interests. International law was undermined and flouted. When the invasion of Iraq became a front-burner issue, the world implored the Bush Administration not to do it, threatening everything from vetoes in the UN to political recrimination. America again disregarded the objections and went forward. The Security Council was subverted in the process and a creaky pre- World War II theory of justified pre-emptive strikes was resurrected. Again international law was cast aside. When questions arose as to whether Geneva Convention protections would be extended to those captured in Afghanistan, President Bush dismissed the landmark 55-year-old treaty regime as a series of legalisms he would consider in making his decision. This unapologetic pattern of discounting the importance of international law helped create an environment where it could easily by disregarded by those who were supposed to follow it. That subtle message was especially potent when coupled with the specific message to extract all information possible out of detainees to help further the war on terrorism. How can the privates and sergeants on the ground at Abu Ghraib be faulted for following the lead of their commander-in-chief? They can be faulted because they should be regarded as rational, thinking human beings - the same as those they tortured. The fact that international law was simply disregarded made the process easier, but no more excusable. America has begun to reap the whirlwind of its policy-line ignoring international law. It is held in the lowest regard foreign nations have had for it in decades, and it suffers from diminished standing worldwide. The abuses at Abu Ghraib are a particularly ugly gust of that whirlwind that has blown back in Washington's face. Re-embracing international law and the United Nations (and the unique legitimacy each can bestow) could help us weather and avoid the fury of such storms. Michael Kelly is Associate Professor of Law of International Law at Creighton University School of Law in Omaha, Nebraska, and the co-author of Equal Justice in the Balance, Assessing America's Legal Responses to the Emerging Terrorist Threat (University of Michigan Press 2004). May 19, 2004 http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2004/05/reaping-whirlwind-departures- from_19.php ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Yeah I didn't write that Marilyn. I did respond to that post though. You must have replied to my post and snipped out my response which I have copied below after the post you erroneously attribute to me. Keith hates it when people do that. I've done it too by accident. Be careful Keith seems a little testy these days especially about the archives BTW great post otherwise :-) I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there are agreements with countries around the world, like the Geneva convention, and who knows what else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities.. I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will chime in. Well what about the military action taken on the Faluja General Hospital? That was an undisputable violation of the Geneva convention. The US government is clearly guilty of international war crimes. I don't understand why the people of that country are not doing anything about this. There are plenty of grounds for impeachment without anyone getting thier lips dirty! Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe Street wrote: I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there are agreements with countries around the world, like the Geneva convention, and who knows what else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities.. I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will chime in. Agreeing to be part of the UN is supposed to mean agreeing not to wage preemptive war. The British are having arguments at high levels in government about the illegality of the Iraq invasion. The article below by an American law professor also talks about treaties, agreements and international law being ignored: Reaping the Whirlwind: Departures from International Law Helped Create Climate for Iraq Prison Abuses JURIST Guest Columnist Michael Kelly of Creighton University School of Law says the Bush Administration's general disregard for international treaties and standards facilitated an atmosphere in which US personnel could flout the Geneva Conventions and abuse Iraqi prisoners... "The Bush Administration has consistently signaled for three and a half years that international law does not matter. The American military and civilian personnel at Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad apparently received that signal loud and clear. Not only did they fail to follow the requirements of the Geneva Convention on Treatment of POW's, according to the Red Cross, no copies of the treaty were to be found on-site. The list of high-profile treaties broken or withdrawn by this government is a long one that includes denunciation of the Rome Statute creating the International Criminal Court, pulling out of the Kyoto Protocol to diminish ozone-depleting gases, and unilateral withdrawal from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty over initial Russian objections. An overwhelming majority of nations condemned each of these moves as irresponsible and self-serving, but Washington paid little heed - steadfastly pursuing short-term political gains instead of America's long-term global interests. International law was undermined and flouted. When the invasion of Iraq became a front-burner issue, the world implored the Bush Administration not to do it, threatening everything from vetoes in the UN to political recrimination. America again disregarded the objections and went forward. The Security Council was subverted in the process and a creaky pre- World War II theory of justified pre-emptive strikes was resurrected. Again international law was cast aside. When questions arose as to whether Geneva Convention protections would be extended to those captured in Afghanistan, President Bush dismissed the landmark 55-year-old treaty regime as a series of legalisms he would consider in making his decision. This unapologetic pattern of discounting the importance of international law helped create an environment where it could easily by disregarded by those who were supposed to follow it. That subtle message was especially potent when coupled with the specific message to extract all information possible out of detainees to help further the war on terrorism. How can the privates and sergeants on the ground at Abu Ghraib be faulted for following the lead of their commander-in-chief? They can be faulted because they should be regarded as rational, thinking human beings - the same as those they tortured. The fact that international law was simply disregarded made the process easier, but no more excusable. America has begun to reap the whirlwind of its policy-line ignoring international law. It is held in the lowest regard foreign nations have had for it in decades, and it suffers from diminished standing worldwide. The abuses at Abu Ghraib are a particularly ugly gust of that whirlwind that has blown back in Washington's face. Re-embracing international law and the
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Thanks for the correction, Joe. I will be more careful from now on to be sure who I am quoting. Is it OK to just say Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote: and not mention a name when including a response? I'm glad you liked the post otherwise. I don't blame Keith for being a little testy. We all are these days with what is going on in the world. Marilyn Note: Forwarded Email Message Below: Yeah I didn't write that Marilyn. I did respond to that post though. You must have replied to my post and snipped out my response which I have copied below after the post you erroneously attribute to me. Keith hates it when people do that. I've done it too by accident. Be careful Keith seems a little testy these days especially about the archives BTW great post otherwise :-) I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there are agreements with countries around the world, like the Geneva convention, and who knows what else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities.. I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will chime in. Well what about the military action taken on the Faluja General Hospital? That was an undisputable violation of the Geneva convention. The US government is clearly guilty of international war crimes. I don't understand why the people of that country are not doing anything about this. There are plenty of grounds for impeachment without anyone getting thier lips dirty! Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe Street wrote: I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there are agreements with countries around the world, like the Geneva convention, and who knows what else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities.. I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will chime in. Agreeing to be part of the UN is supposed to mean agreeing not to wage preemptive war. The British are having arguments at high levels in government about the illegality of the Iraq invasion. The article below by an American law professor also talks about treaties, agreements and international law being ignored: Reaping the Whirlwind: Departures from International Law Helped Create Climate for Iraq Prison Abuses JURIST Guest Columnist Michael Kelly of Creighton University School of Law says the Bush Administration's general disregard for international treaties and standards facilitated an atmosphere in which US personnel could flout the Geneva Conventions and abuse Iraqi prisoners... The Bush Administration has consistently signaled for three and a half years that international law does not matter. The American military and civilian personnel at Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad apparently received that signal loud and clear. Not only did they fail to follow the requirements of the Geneva Convention on Treatment of POW's, according to the Red Cross, no copies of the treaty were to be found on-site. The list of high-profile treaties broken or withdrawn by this government is a long one that includes denunciation of the Rome Statute creating the International Criminal Court, pulling out of the Kyoto Protocol to diminish ozone-depleting gases, and unilateral withdrawal from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty over initial Russian objections. An overwhelming majority of nations condemned each of these moves as irresponsible and self-serving, but Washington paid little heed - steadfastly pursuing short-term political gains instead of America's long-term global interests. International law was undermined and flouted. When the invasion of Iraq became a front-burner issue, the world implored the Bush Administration not to do it, threatening everything from vetoes in the UN to political recrimination. America again disregarded the objections and went forward. The Security Council was subverted in the process and a creaky pre- World War II theory of justified pre-emptive strikes was resurrected. Again international law was cast aside. When questions arose as to whether Geneva Convention protections would be extended to those captured in Afghanistan, President Bush dismissed the landmark 55-year-old treaty regime as a series of legalisms he would consider in making his decision. This unapologetic pattern of discounting the importance of international law helped create an environment where it could easily by disregarded by those who were supposed to follow it. That subtle message was especially potent when coupled with the specific message to extract all information possible out of detainees to help further the war on terrorism. How can the privates and sergeants on the ground at Abu Ghraib be faulted for following the lead of their commander-in-chief? They can be faulted because they should be regarded as rational, thinking human beings - the same as those they tortured. The fact that international law was simply disregarded made the process
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
...and it wasn't just the hospital! Mike THE RESULTS OF US DEMOCRACY IN FALLUJAH!From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [CampusAntiwarNetwork] Fallujah: A Horrific Case of a Crime Against HumanityDate: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:05:54 -0500Fallujah: A Horrifc Case of a Crime Against Humanity March 21, 2005Dr. Hafidh al-Dulaimi, the head of the Commission for the Compensation of Fallujah citizens have reported the following destruction that has been inflicted on Fallujah as a result of the American attack on it: 7000 totally destroyed, or nearly totally destroyed, homes in all districts of Fallujah.8400 stores, workshops, clinics, warehouses, etc.. destroyed.65 mosques and religious sanctuaries have been either totally demolished and leveled with the ground or whose minarets and inner halls have been demolished. 59 kindergartens, primary schools, secondary schools and technical colleges have been destroyed. 13 government buildings have been leveled.Destruction of the two electricity substations, the three water purification plants, the two railroad stations and heavy damages to the sewage and rain drainage subsystems throughout the city.The total destruction of a bridge to the West of the city. The death of 100,000 domestic and wild animals due to chemical and/or gaseous munitions. The burning and destruction of four libraries that housed hundreds perhaps thousands of ancient Islamic manuscripts and books. The targeted destruction (which appears to be intentional) of the historical nearby site at Saqlawia and the castle of Abu al-Abbas al-Safah. Dr. al-Dulaimi has asked all relevant international organization tovisit and document the destruction to Fallujah. The Head of the Compensation Committee reveals in numbers the FallujahTragedy March 21, 2005 (Islam Memo news item in Arabic - my translation)UN: Fallujah cost nears $500 million March 14, 2005 __ Search engine results on this report: http://tinyurl.com/88qud Search Yahoo! "Dr. Hafidh al-Dulaimi" Fallujah March 21, 2005Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah I didn't write that Marilyn. I did respond to that post though. You must have replied to my post and snipped out my response which I have copied below after the post you erroneously attribute to me. Keith hates it when people do that. I've done it too by accident. Be careful Keith seems a little testy these days especially about the archives BTW great post otherwise :-) I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there are agreements with countries around the world, like the Geneva convention, and who knows what else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities..I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will chime in.Well what about the military action taken on the Faluja General Hospital? That was an undisputable violation of the Geneva convention. The US government is clearly guilty of international war crimes. I don't understand why the people of that country are not doing anything about this. There are plenty of grounds for impeachment without anyone getting thier lips dirty!Joe___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
This news item was also shown on the BBC news last night (Tues 11/29), including a shot of David Keogh being arrested for leaking the information. This may help those who think the story is phony to rethink their opinion. Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. But he was talked out of it at a White House summit by Tony Blair, who said it would provoke a worldwide backlash. A source said: There's no doubt what Bush wanted, and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. Al-Jazeera is accused by the US of fuelling the Iraqi insurgency. The attack would have led to a massacre of innocents on the territory of a key ally, enraged the Middle East and almost certainly have sparked bloody retaliation. A source said last night: The memo is explosive and hugely damaging to Bush. He made clear he wanted to bomb al-Jazeera in Qatar and elsewhere. Blair replied that would cause a big problem. There's no doubt what Bush wanted to do - and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. A Government official suggested that the Bush threat had been humorous, not serious. But another source declared: Bush was deadly serious, as was Blair. That much is absolutely clear from the language used by both men. Yesterday former Labour Defence Minister Peter Kilfoyle challenged Downing Street to publish the five-page transcript of the two leaders' conversation. He said: It's frightening to think that such a powerful man as Bush can propose such cavalier actions. I hope the Prime Minister insists this memo be published. It gives an insight into the mindset of those who were the architects of war. Bush disclosed his plan to target al-Jazeera, a civilian station with a huge Mid-East following, at a White House face-to-face with Mr Blair on April 16 last year. At the time, the US was launching an all-out assault on insurgents in the Iraqi town of Fallujah. Al-Jazeera infuriated Washington and London by reporting from behind rebel lines and broadcasting pictures of dead soldiers, private contractors and Iraqi victims. The station, watched by millions, has also been used by bin Laden and al-Qaeda to broadcast atrocities and to threaten the West. Al-Jazeera's HQ is in the business district of Qatar's capital, Doha. Its single-storey buildings would have made an easy target for bombers. As it is sited away from residential areas, and more than 10 miles from the US's desert base in Qatar, there would have been no danger of collateral damage. Dozens of al-Jazeera staff at the HQ are not, as many believe, Islamic fanatics. Instead, most are respected and highly trained technicians and journalists. To have wiped them out would have been equivalent to bombing the BBC in London and the most spectacular foreign policy disaster since the Iraq War itself. The No 10 memo now raises fresh doubts over US claims that previous attacks against al-Jazeera staff were military errors. In 2001 the station's Kabul office was knocked out by two smart bombs. In 2003, al-Jazeera reporter Tareq Ayyoub was killed in a US missile strike on the station's Baghdad centre. The memo, which also included details of troop deployments, turned up in May last year at the Northampton constituency office of then Labour MP Tony Clarke. Cabinet Office civil servant David Keogh, 49, is accused under the Official Secrets Act of passing it to Leo O'Connor, 42, who used to work for Mr Clarke. Both are bailed to appear at Bow Street court next week. Mr Clarke, who lost at the election, returned the memo to No 10. He said Mr O'Connor had behaved perfectly correctly. Neither Mr O'Connor or Mr Keogh were available. No 10 did not comment. Copyright - The Mirror ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
No more wire hangers ever! Poppycock is actually second only to Canola as an oil seed crop. The trouble is that it's genetically modified and it's hard to get seeds. You don't have Election Day in Japan? It's my girlfriend's favorite holiday. She bounces out of bed and doesn't come home until well after dark, exhausted. No, the ice cream isn't so good but you should see our freezers, they're HUGE! Keith Addison wrote: Nah, what we need is fewer Mikes. I can't keep them all straight. I have the same problem with wire coat hangers. Besides, I suspect you stole the election for list owner by manipulating the vote and the voters, and now you're dragging us all down in your ill-conceived assualt on 'Merican values. Biofuels. Sustainable farming. Community Develpoment. Poppycock. I only have three comments. One, it's not ill-conceived. Two, poppycock is a really lousy biofuels crop and I have NEVER promoted it. Three, what's an election? Is that what all these emails from Paris Tyson say will last longer if I watch his video? Come over to the dark side, Keith. Be one of us. I'll help you get a consulting job as a shill for Big Oil. You're a writer, picture the headlines: Leading Biofuels Advocate Admits Problems with Alternative Fuels; Joins Exxon Mobil. Naah, I just couldn't do it to them, think of all the PR professionals who'll be out on the streets when people start saying Who's Exxon Mobil? Soon you'll have a big house in the suburbs, a Suburban and speaking engagements. C'mon.. Do they have good icecream there? Keith -America Keith Addison wrote: Hello Mike I did not mean in the realm of discourse on this list; I meant that the current US administration is dragging the US and a large part of the world down with it. I know, sorry, I used it for a different meaning. You reckon the US needs a new list owner then? Regards Keith snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
[Massive Snip] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals I'm angry that Bush is rolling back environmental policy in favor of an extract and consume policy. I'm angry that we have made a hash of the war in Iraq and alieniated the US from the world community in the process. I'm livid about our energy policy. But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom Radiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150) Tom Scheel 928-380-6294 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
That's why people are upset; those in the know are even more upset. I worked on a Post Reconstruction Database that would have served as a blueprint for what to do after the war. The Bush Admin. told us point-blank to stuff it. Did not want to hear it, did not want hear about it. THE CURRENT SITUATION IN IRAQ IS CONSCIOUSLY, WITH DELIBERATE FORETHOUGHT, COMPLETELY SELF-INFLICTED. See: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=scott_feil August 1, 2002 http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/item.jsp?item=complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq_409 / Events Leading to Iraq Invasion http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq/ A panel of experts on Iraq warns the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that administering Iraq after the toppling of Saddam's government will be expensive and difficult. The panel says that “there are no obvious successors to Saddam Hussein and that the Bush administration should be prepared to help install and protect a pro-American government if it decides to topple him—a proposition, they added, that would be long and expensive,” the New York Times reports. “Nearly all the experts argued that setting up a stable, pro-Western government in Baghdad would require a huge infusion of aid and a long term commitment of American troops to maintain peace.” [New York Times, 8/2/02 http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/archive/2002/nytimes080202.htm] Phebe Marr, a professor from the National Defense University who has written prolifically on Iraq, tells the panel, “If the US is going to take the responsibility for removing the current leadership, it should assume that it cannot get the results it wants on the cheap.” Scott Feil, a retired Army colonel who studies postwar reconstruction programs, says that 75,000 troops will be needed in Iraq to stabilize the country after Saddam is removed from power. He estimates that such a deployment will cost in excess of $16 billion per year. After the first 12 months, the colonel says that the force could be reduced in number, possibly to as low as 5,000, though this military presence would have to be maintained for at least another five years. In contrast, Caspar W. Weinberger, the secretary of defense under President Ronald Reagan argues that the United States will not need to undertake a major effort in rebuilding Iraq. [New York Times, 8/2/02 http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/archive/2002/nytimes080202.htm] I'm angry that Bush is rolling back environmental policy in favor of an extract and consume policy. I'm angry that we have made a hash of the war in Iraq and alieniated the US from the world community in the process. I'm livid about our energy policy. But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom Radiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150) Tom Scheel 928-380-6294 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
"Nah, what we need is fewer Mikes."Hey! Easy now!By the way, I happen to likePoppycock.Fiddle Faddle and Screaming Yellow Zonkers aren't bad either."Soon you'll have a big house in the suburbs [Keith]"I learned from experience that the suburbs is where you go when you don't want to know your neighbors.Yea! I'd like to see that. Throw Keith in the 'burbs and see what happens. I can see it now - the return of block parties, aspike in voter turn-out, the mysterious disappearance of SUV's and communal stills to fuelhybrids (andblock parties).MikeKeith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nah, what we need is fewer Mikes. I can't keep them all straight.I have the same problem with wire coat hangers.Besides, I suspect you stole the election for list owner by manipulatingthe vote and the voters, and now you're dragging us all down in yourill-conceived assualt on 'Merican values. Biofuels. Sustainablefarming. Community Develpoment. Poppycock.I only have three comments. One, it's not ill-conceived. Two, poppycock is a really lousy biofuels crop and I have NEVER promoted it. Three, what's an election? Is that what all these emails from Paris Tyson say will last longer if I watch his video?Come over to the dark side, Keith. Be one of us. I'll help you get aconsulting job as a shill for "Big Oil." You're a writer, picture theheadlines:"Leading Biofuels Advocate Admits Problems with Alternative Fuels; JoinsExxon Mobil."Naah, I just couldn't do it to them, think of all the PR professionals who'll be out on the streets when people start saying "Who's Exxon Mobil?"Soon you'll have a big house in the suburbs, a Suburban and speakingengagements.C'mon..Do they have good icecream there?Keith___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there are agreements with countries around the world, like the Geneva convention, and who knows what else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities.. I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will chime in. -- Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. -George Carlin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
My suburban neighbors hate me. They hate: 1. The wood stove. (But SUV's are ok) - I don't like the smell. 2. The sound of me splitting wood. (Could you please do that another time? I can't hear my program - true story) 3. Building a shed. (Called the county on me dozens of times, but heck, I can read. It's legal.) 4. Woodpile - neatly stacked, with a cover. (That thing is so ugly - you're going to burn it all this year, I hope.) 5. My now late and lamented 1988 Isuzu Trooper. (Are you going to KEEP that thing?) 6. My lawn. I hate grass. I won't put weed killer on it. I just have to figure out a non-grass front yard. 7. Cedar shake on my house. (You're not going to leave that wood on there, are you? It's so ugly. Vinyl looks neater) 8. My garden. (Those plants look so shaggy - can't you trim them?) No, they're tomato plants. Tomato plants alwasy look shaggy. I could go on... Michael Redler wrote: */Nah, what we need is fewer Mikes./* Hey! Easy now! By the way, I happen to like Poppycock. Fiddle Faddle and Screaming Yellow Zonkers aren't bad either. */Soon you'll have a big house in the suburbs [Keith]/* I learned from experience that the suburbs is where you go when you don't want to know your neighbors. Yea! I'd like to see that. Throw Keith in the 'burbs and see what happens. I can see it now - the return of block parties, a spike in voter turn-out, the mysterious disappearance of SUV's and communal stills to fuel hybrids (and block parties). Mike */Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Nah, what we need is fewer Mikes. I can't keep them all straight. I have the same problem with wire coat hangers. Besides, I suspect you stole the election for list owner by manipulating the vote and the voters, and now you're dragging us all down in your ill-conceived assualt on 'Merican values. Biofuels. Sustainable farming. Community Develpoment. Poppycock. I only have three comments. One, it's not ill-conceived. Two, poppycock is a really lousy biofuels crop and I have NEVER promoted it. Three, what's an election? Is that what all these emails from Paris Tyson say will last longer if I watch his video? Come over to the dark side, Keith. Be one of us. I'll help you get a consulting job as a shill for Big Oil. You're a writer, picture the headlines: Leading Biofuels Advocate Admits Problems with Alternative Fuels; Joins Exxon Mobil. Naah, I just couldn't do it to them, think of all the PR professionals who'll be out on the streets when people start saying Who's Exxon Mobil? Soon you'll have a big house in the suburbs, a Suburban and speaking engagements. C'mon.. Do they have good icecream there? Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
What a quaint notion. Geneva convention, and who knowswhat else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities.. G wrote: But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there are agreements with countries around the world, like the Geneva convention, and who knows what else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities.. I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will chime in. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
JTF was 4th on the list after The Times and The Post. Keep your head down. Keith Addison wrote: Hello Tom So what am I missing? Maybe that you think it's a war, but the rest of the world sees it as an illegal invasion and criminal occupation. How could destroying an independent news agency in a friendly country and killing its journalists and staff possibly be considered an option??? Millions and millions of people worldwide have and are protesting very loudly against your war, they're giving you an even worse press than Al Jazeera, should bombing them too also be considered an option? Or should it avoided on the grounds that it would be a very bad decision? There's a lot of material in the Biofuel list archives, from very early on, that Americans who think it's a war object to probably just as much as they object to Al Jazeera (their objections are also in the archives) (and so is Al Jazeera), and it hasn't stopped yet. I hope you'll see the option of bombing us as a very bad decision too. How about this: The war dead. Who did you think of - 2,000 of our boys? Most other people think that means the 100,000-odd Iraqis killed, and your boys are the killers. There might be some sympathy for them, everyone knows they're just dupes, cheap cannon fodder, discard-after-use, but more likely it would be We told you so, you didn't want to listen. And meanwhile everybody forgets about Afghanistan. (Your government even forgot to include it in the budget after promising not to just walk away this time like they did last time.) It's not that it's exactly anything new, any of this, it's been going on for 60 years now and more, while Americans turned a blind eye to what Washington did abroad with their tax money. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg45962.html Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an Economic Hit Man http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/41438/ An Interview with William Blum http://members.aol.com/superogue/homepage.htm Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower, by William Blum http://members.aol.com/bblum6/American_holocaust.htm Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II, by William Blum http://members.aol.com/bblum6/American_holocaust.htm The American Holocaust Time to stop. Best wishes Keith [Massive Snip] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals I'm angry that Bush is rolling back environmental policy in favor of an extract and consume policy. I'm angry that we have made a hash of the war in Iraq and alieniated the US from the world community in the process. I'm livid about our energy policy. But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom Radiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150) Tom Scheel 928-380-6294 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Tom what you're missing is the far-wider implications of this disgrace: that this bumbling neo-con figurehead/posterboy illegally residing in (and fronting for) the corporatocracy that IS the White House (AND Congress, and soon the entire judiciary as well) can, does, entertain feel enuf immunity to bring up such insane notions for how to deal w/anyone who embarrasses him/them. Makes the Valerie Plame fiasco look like kids playing in a sandbox! And, of course, surely you've noticed that this latest bumble has abruptly disappeared from MM (mainstream media). E. Allen --- Tom Scheel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Massive Snip] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals I'm angry that Bush is rolling back environmental policy in favor of an extract and consume policy. I'm angry that we have made a hash of the war in Iraq and alieniated the US from the world community in the process. I'm livid about our energy policy. But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom Radiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150) Tom Scheel 928-380-6294 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
"But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war."I'm not surprised that anyone on this list would suggest having an open mind on anything. After all, it is the single biggest strength of the biofuel's collective mind (so to speak).However, the only option in war (IMO)is to put down the antagonists.Nearly every war the US has fought, has been as an extension of its foreign policy and politics- making it one of the worlds biggest antagonists.To a pacifist, the reasons for stopping war are obvious. on a practical level, war has not been a successful way of extending any political policy.[Biofuel] Keegan vs. von Clausewitz: war is not a worthwhile instrument of national policy http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg52828.html(IMO) the decision boils down toweighing the benefits of either ten years of occupation or ten years of civil war. In the context of self determination and the history of most democracies which have emerged over the past hundred years, the decision seems pretty unambiguous.Mike Tom Scheel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm angry that Bush is rolling back environmentalpolicy in favor of an extract and consume policy. I'mangry that we have made a hash of the war in Iraq andalieniated the US from the world community in theprocess. I'm livid about our energy "policy".But I don't understand what is wrong with consideringall options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded.Maybe it should not have made it up the to thepresident (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had hegone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. Butin the context of how can we win/be successful withBush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative andcomprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminatingbone headed ideas from that list. To a casualobserver, it looks like that is exactly what happened.So what am I missing?thanksTomRadiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150)Tom Scheel928-380-6294___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Germany and Japan were occupied with a long-range plan - The Marshall Plan. Arguably it worked. Afganistan and Iraq were flattened and then... Michael Redler wrote: /But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war./ I'm not surprised that anyone on this list would suggest having an open mind on anything. After all, it is the single biggest strength of the biofuel's collective mind (so to speak). However, the only option in war (IMO) is to put down the antagonists. Nearly every war the US has fought, has been as an extension of its foreign policy and politics - making it one of the worlds biggest antagonists. To a pacifist, the reasons for stopping war are obvious. on a practical level, war has not been a successful way of extending any political policy. [Biofuel] Keegan vs. von Clausewitz: war is not a worthwhile instrument of national policy http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg52828.html (IMO) the decision boils down to weighing the benefits of either ten years of occupation or ten years of civil war. In the context of self determination and the history of most democracies which have emerged over the past hundred years, the decision seems pretty unambiguous. Mike */Tom Scheel [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I'm angry that Bush is rolling back environmental policy in favor of an extract and consume policy. I'm angry that we have made a hash of the war in Iraq and alieniated the US from the world community in the process. I'm livid about our energy policy. But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom Radiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150) Tom Scheel 928-380-6294 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
I thought you Mikes were my friends. You'd truly doom me to such a fate? :-( Keith snip Yea! I'd like to see that. Throw Keith in the 'burbs and see what happens. I can see it now - the return of block parties, a spike in voter turn-out, the mysterious disappearance of SUV's and communal stills to fuel hybrids (and block parties). Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
It's that other Mike. Redler! I already live in suburban purgatory! Keith Addison wrote: I thought you Mikes were my friends. You'd truly doom me to such a fate? :-( Keith snip Yea! I'd like to see that. Throw Keith in the 'burbs and see what happens. I can see it now - the return of block parties, a spike in voter turn-out, the mysterious disappearance of SUV's and communal stills to fuel hybrids (and block parties). Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
The Marshall Plan was developed well after World War II was over, in the absence of any other sensible plan for dealing with the situation in Germany and Europe. One major reason for its development and ready acceptance was that there was then a hostile great power (the USSR) which was benefiting from the chaos and despair in Europe. That said, the U.S. was a different country then. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, Mike Weaver wrote: Germany and Japan were occupied with a long-range plan - The Marshall Plan. Arguably it worked. Afganistan and Iraq were flattened and then... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
JTF was 4th on the list after The Times and The Post. Fourth?? AFTER The Times and The Post??? Oh, the shame, the shame! Keep your head down. Yes, and the powder dry. You know, the smelling-salts powder. Keith Keith Addison wrote: Hello Tom So what am I missing? Maybe that you think it's a war, but the rest of the world sees it as an illegal invasion and criminal occupation. How could destroying an independent news agency in a friendly country and killing its journalists and staff possibly be considered an option??? Millions and millions of people worldwide have and are protesting very loudly against your war, they're giving you an even worse press than Al Jazeera, should bombing them too also be considered an option? Or should it avoided on the grounds that it would be a very bad decision? There's a lot of material in the Biofuel list archives, from very early on, that Americans who think it's a war object to probably just as much as they object to Al Jazeera (their objections are also in the archives) (and so is Al Jazeera), and it hasn't stopped yet. I hope you'll see the option of bombing us as a very bad decision too. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
hostile great power (the USSR) Kind of like Al Qaeda? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Marshall Plan was developed well after World War II was over, in the absence of any other sensible plan for dealing with the situation in Germany and Europe. One major reason for its development and ready acceptance was that there was then a hostile great power (the USSR) which was benefiting from the chaos and despair in Europe. That said, the U.S. was a different country then. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, Mike Weaver wrote: Germany and Japan were occupied with a long-range plan - The Marshall Plan. Arguably it worked. Afganistan and Iraq were flattened and then... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there are agreements with countries around the world, like the Geneva convention, and who knows what else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities.. I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will chime in. Well what about the military action taken on the Faluja General Hospital? That was an undisputable violation of the Geneva convention. The US government is clearly guilty of international war crimes. I don't understand why the people of that country are not doing anything about this. There are plenty of grounds for impeachment without anyone getting thier lips dirty! Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Tom, So what am I missing? Could it be the fact that the commander in chief was so serious about it and he had to be talked out of it by the leader of another nation? That it was but a handful of syllables from becoming a reality? That this is the type of mind in control of an arsenal of nuclear weapons? That it's the same mindset that kept planned for war in advance of and in lieu of accurate intelligence, even to the point of courting the UN while having already calculated a departure date? U, maybe you would care to rephrase that question? Todd Swearingen Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. [Massive Snip] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals I'm angry that Bush is rolling back environmental policy in favor of an extract and consume policy. I'm angry that we have made a hash of the war in Iraq and alieniated the US from the world community in the process. I'm livid about our energy policy. But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom Radiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150) Tom Scheel 928-380-6294 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Don't forget Bechtel Nor Halliburton, Kellogg, Brown and Root, Vinnell, all the other usual suspects, and the entire hall of corporateer infamy right behind them. radema wrote: -- Original Message -- From: bmolloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 09:59:23 +1300 Bush's father is a member of Carlisle, as was O'Bin Laden's dad. Elder Bin Laden isn't anymore. I think we've gone a bit off course here. As Pitt-Rivers said in his speech to the American Veterans for Peace conference back in '02, seeing Bush as the author of our foreign policy is the equivalent of blaming Mickey Mouse when Disney screws up. In full: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg27072.html [biofuel] They don't know... In other words, the real movers and shakers are the good ole boys who form the Carlisle group, one of the offshoots of the military-industrial complex which really runs America. Bush is simply the patsy in front of house. Regards, Bob. You're completely right. They'd've done a lot better with Max Headroom though, IMHO. But it doesn't let young master Bush off any hooks. Re Carlyle: http://snipurl.com/kagb [Biofuel] Search results for 'Carlyle' (25 matches) http://www.hereinreality.com/carlyle.html Meet The Carlyle Group - Former World Leaders and Washington Insiders Make Billions from the War on Terrorism http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3995.htm Exposed: The Carlyle Group: Shocking documentary uncovers the subversion of Americas democracy. Shocking documentary uncovers the subversion of Americas democracy. I defy you to watch this 48 minute documentary and not be outraged about the depth of corruption and deceit within the highest ranks of our government. Note: The first one minute forty seven seconds of this program is in broadcast in Dutch, The remainder is in English. Best Keith - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Dietmar To: mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally I was always wandering how Bush could be elected in the first place. He seems to be even worse than his father was. Dietmar ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Hello Tom So what am I missing? Maybe that you think it's a war, but the rest of the world sees it as an illegal invasion and criminal occupation. How could destroying an independent news agency in a friendly country and killing its journalists and staff possibly be considered an option??? Millions and millions of people worldwide have and are protesting very loudly against your war, they're giving you an even worse press than Al Jazeera, should bombing them too also be considered an option? Or should it avoided on the grounds that it would be a very bad decision? There's a lot of material in the Biofuel list archives, from very early on, that Americans who think it's a war object to probably just as much as they object to Al Jazeera (their objections are also in the archives) (and so is Al Jazeera), and it hasn't stopped yet. I hope you'll see the option of bombing us as a very bad decision too. How about this: The war dead. Who did you think of - 2,000 of our boys? Most other people think that means the 100,000-odd Iraqis killed, and your boys are the killers. There might be some sympathy for them, everyone knows they're just dupes, cheap cannon fodder, discard-after-use, but more likely it would be We told you so, you didn't want to listen. And meanwhile everybody forgets about Afghanistan. (Your government even forgot to include it in the budget after promising not to just walk away this time like they did last time.) It's not that it's exactly anything new, any of this, it's been going on for 60 years now and more, while Americans turned a blind eye to what Washington did abroad with their tax money. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg45962.html Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an Economic Hit Man http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/41438/ An Interview with William Blum http://members.aol.com/superogue/homepage.htm Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower, by William Blum http://members.aol.com/bblum6/American_holocaust.htm Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II, by William Blum http://members.aol.com/bblum6/American_holocaust.htm The American Holocaust Time to stop. Best wishes Keith [Massive Snip] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals I'm angry that Bush is rolling back environmental policy in favor of an extract and consume policy. I'm angry that we have made a hash of the war in Iraq and alieniated the US from the world community in the process. I'm livid about our energy policy. But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom Radiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150) Tom Scheel 928-380-6294 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Hello Mike I did not mean in the realm of discourse on this list; I meant that the current US administration is dragging the US and a large part of the world down with it. I know, sorry, I used it for a different meaning. You reckon the US needs a new list owner then? Regards Keith Bust does not have a mandate from 48.5% of the populace (or whatever - tho' I think both elections were fishy), and last I checked the The coalition of the willing was small and had dwindled to tiny. Keith Addison wrote: Mike, Are they really? Then all the more reason to let them evidence their own stupidity and ignorance. There's a biblical verse that I've always been partial to. It's My people perish for lack of knowledge. They did then (although it refers more towards spiritual knowledge) and they still do now. Let others display how patently little they know and oddly enough everyone becomes a little bit wiser.. Todd, if that were true only one time out of ten I'd still be inclined to say the 10th time makes the other nine times worth it. But I'd remind you of a couple of things, two list threads in particular from a bit more than a year ago, I'm sure you'll remember them: Oil and Israel, and Fahrenheit 9/11. Even if you don't remember them, I sure as hell do. Far from the only examples to be sure, but stark enough to make the point. Real-world communities and virtual ones are not the same, the same behaviour can have very different results, and the same people can behave very differently. In a virtual community, what's more likely is that the Lowest Common Denominator factor will rule if it's allowed to, and the list community itself becomes a little bit dumber. Or a lot dumber. We've seen that enough times too. Not here. It's highly probable that they'd take us with them. All best Keith Todd Swearingen But they are taking us with them. Appal Energy wrote: Keith, We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. You're correct. But it takes all the fun out of it if nipped in the bud. Much more entertaining to watch them swing in the wind on a rope of their own choosing. Give 'em enough rope to hang themselves and most usually will. Todd Swearingen Hi Todd You could be right, I don't know. Maybe it's a genuine comment - what do the latest polls say about how many Americans still believe Saddam Hussein was linked to 9/11 and Al Qaeda and his WMD threatened the US? How long ago did we totally trash all that here, three years ago or was it four? But I'm not concerned about what he thinks or what he believes, you don't just simply ignore people who question what you've said. Or not here anyway. We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. Best put a stop to it at the outset. It's an example, I'm not saying it applies to Michael. But he made a statement, it's been questioned, he should either support his statement or withdraw it. That's what he'd have to do if it was a face-to-face discussion among a group of people rather than a virtual group, and IMHO there shouldn't be any difference. Anyway, Thanksgiving, I hope you all had a good holiday - much to give thanks for, and much to grieve over too. Much to be done if there's not to be less of the first and more of the second this time next year. My very best wishes for that, and everybody else's too I'm sure. All best Keith Hey Keith, Just let him stew over his own statement and mis-beliefs. You see, people who make such remarks generally have nothing to back up their words. But their hope is that others will say nothing and just let their words stand, allowing a little more doubt to be spread amongst the few gullible or uninformed people who might still remain. It's guerrilla tactics at best, knowing full well that the armory has been empty for a very long time and that the last roll of hard tack was just washed down with stale water. In this case, it's he who some sympathy should be extended towards. He knows a sinking, worm-ridden ship when he sees one. Unfortunately he's too proud to admit that he's been duped all along and still clings to some hope that if he keeps his eyes closed tight for long enough that reality will somehow be different. We should all wish him well with his folly on this holiday, as his rude awakening is inevitably just around the corner. Todd Swearingen Michael Jones wrote: And I feel sorry for anyone who believes this. Based on what, exactly? Anything more substantial than your opinion? Other list members have questioned you too. A response with some substance to it is required please.
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Nah, what we need is fewer Mikes. I can't keep them all straight. Besides, I suspect you stole the election for list owner by manipulating the vote and the voters, and now you're dragging us all down in your ill-conceived assualt on 'Merican values. Biofuels. Sustainable farming. Community Develpoment. Poppycock. Come over to the dark side, Keith. Be one of us. I'll help you get a consulting job as a shill for Big Oil. You're a writer, picture the headlines: Leading Biofuels Advocate Admits Problems with Alternative Fuels; Joins Exxon Mobil. Soon you'll have a big house in the suburbs, a Suburban and speaking engagements. C'mon.. -America Keith Addison wrote: Hello Mike I did not mean in the realm of discourse on this list; I meant that the current US administration is dragging the US and a large part of the world down with it. I know, sorry, I used it for a different meaning. You reckon the US needs a new list owner then? Regards Keith Bust does not have a mandate from 48.5% of the populace (or whatever - tho' I think both elections were fishy), and last I checked the The coalition of the willing was small and had dwindled to tiny. Keith Addison wrote: Mike, Are they really? Then all the more reason to let them evidence their own stupidity and ignorance. There's a biblical verse that I've always been partial to. It's My people perish for lack of knowledge. They did then (although it refers more towards spiritual knowledge) and they still do now. Let others display how patently little they know and oddly enough everyone becomes a little bit wiser.. Todd, if that were true only one time out of ten I'd still be inclined to say the 10th time makes the other nine times worth it. But I'd remind you of a couple of things, two list threads in particular from a bit more than a year ago, I'm sure you'll remember them: Oil and Israel, and Fahrenheit 9/11. Even if you don't remember them, I sure as hell do. Far from the only examples to be sure, but stark enough to make the point. Real-world communities and virtual ones are not the same, the same behaviour can have very different results, and the same people can behave very differently. In a virtual community, what's more likely is that the Lowest Common Denominator factor will rule if it's allowed to, and the list community itself becomes a little bit dumber. Or a lot dumber. We've seen that enough times too. Not here. It's highly probable that they'd take us with them. All best Keith Todd Swearingen But they are taking us with them. Appal Energy wrote: Keith, We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. You're correct. But it takes all the fun out of it if nipped in the bud. Much more entertaining to watch them swing in the wind on a rope of their own choosing. Give 'em enough rope to hang themselves and most usually will. Todd Swearingen Hi Todd You could be right, I don't know. Maybe it's a genuine comment - what do the latest polls say about how many Americans still believe Saddam Hussein was linked to 9/11 and Al Qaeda and his WMD threatened the US? How long ago did we totally trash all that here, three years ago or was it four? But I'm not concerned about what he thinks or what he believes, you don't just simply ignore people who question what you've said. Or not here anyway. We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. Best put a stop to it at the outset. It's an example, I'm not saying it applies to Michael. But he made a statement, it's been questioned, he should either support his statement or withdraw it. That's what he'd have to do if it was a face-to-face discussion among a group of people rather than a virtual group, and IMHO there shouldn't be any difference. Anyway, Thanksgiving, I hope you all had a good holiday - much to give thanks for, and much to grieve over too. Much to be done if there's not to be less of the first and more of the second this time next year. My very best wishes for that, and everybody else's too I'm sure. All best Keith Hey Keith, Just let him stew over his own statement and mis-beliefs. You see, people who make such remarks generally have nothing to back up their words. But their hope is that others will say nothing and just let their words stand, allowing a little more doubt to be spread amongst the few gullible or uninformed people who might still remain. It's guerrilla tactics at best, knowing full well that the armory has been empty for a very long time and that the last roll of hard tack was just washed
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Nah, what we need is fewer Mikes. I can't keep them all straight. I have the same problem with wire coat hangers. Besides, I suspect you stole the election for list owner by manipulating the vote and the voters, and now you're dragging us all down in your ill-conceived assualt on 'Merican values. Biofuels. Sustainable farming. Community Develpoment. Poppycock. I only have three comments. One, it's not ill-conceived. Two, poppycock is a really lousy biofuels crop and I have NEVER promoted it. Three, what's an election? Is that what all these emails from Paris Tyson say will last longer if I watch his video? Come over to the dark side, Keith. Be one of us. I'll help you get a consulting job as a shill for Big Oil. You're a writer, picture the headlines: Leading Biofuels Advocate Admits Problems with Alternative Fuels; Joins Exxon Mobil. Naah, I just couldn't do it to them, think of all the PR professionals who'll be out on the streets when people start saying Who's Exxon Mobil? Soon you'll have a big house in the suburbs, a Suburban and speaking engagements. C'mon.. Do they have good icecream there? Keith -America Keith Addison wrote: Hello Mike I did not mean in the realm of discourse on this list; I meant that the current US administration is dragging the US and a large part of the world down with it. I know, sorry, I used it for a different meaning. You reckon the US needs a new list owner then? Regards Keith snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Hi Todd Keith, We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. You're correct. But it takes all the fun out of it if nipped in the bud. Much more entertaining to watch them swing in the wind on a rope of their own choosing. :-) I'm not sure I share your gruesome sense of entertainment. Give 'em enough rope to hang themselves and most usually will. Let's see now, how does it go, the old refrain: as list-owner my first obligation is to the list itself and the issues it represents, my second obligation is to the individual members, until they put the first obligation at risk. As far as I'm concerned, what that means is that they're welcome to hang themselves if they want to but they should do it somewhere else. Meanwhile no word from Michael Jones. Sigh... Best Keith Todd Swearingen Hi Todd You could be right, I don't know. Maybe it's a genuine comment - what do the latest polls say about how many Americans still believe Saddam Hussein was linked to 9/11 and Al Qaeda and his WMD threatened the US? How long ago did we totally trash all that here, three years ago or was it four? But I'm not concerned about what he thinks or what he believes, you don't just simply ignore people who question what you've said. Or not here anyway. We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. Best put a stop to it at the outset. It's an example, I'm not saying it applies to Michael. But he made a statement, it's been questioned, he should either support his statement or withdraw it. That's what he'd have to do if it was a face-to-face discussion among a group of people rather than a virtual group, and IMHO there shouldn't be any difference. Anyway, Thanksgiving, I hope you all had a good holiday - much to give thanks for, and much to grieve over too. Much to be done if there's not to be less of the first and more of the second this time next year. My very best wishes for that, and everybody else's too I'm sure. All best Keith Hey Keith, Just let him stew over his own statement and mis-beliefs. You see, people who make such remarks generally have nothing to back up their words. But their hope is that others will say nothing and just let their words stand, allowing a little more doubt to be spread amongst the few gullible or uninformed people who might still remain. It's guerrilla tactics at best, knowing full well that the armory has been empty for a very long time and that the last roll of hard tack was just washed down with stale water. In this case, it's he who some sympathy should be extended towards. He knows a sinking, worm-ridden ship when he sees one. Unfortunately he's too proud to admit that he's been duped all along and still clings to some hope that if he keeps his eyes closed tight for long enough that reality will somehow be different. We should all wish him well with his folly on this holiday, as his rude awakening is inevitably just around the corner. Todd Swearingen Michael Jones wrote: And I feel sorry for anyone who believes this. Based on what, exactly? Anything more substantial than your opinion? Other list members have questioned you too. A response with some substance to it is required please. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Mike, Are they really? Then all the more reason to let them evidence their own stupidity and ignorance. There's a biblical verse that I've always been partial to. It's My people perish for lack of knowledge. They did then (although it refers more towards spiritual knowledge) and they still do now. Let others display how patently little they know and oddly enough everyone becomes a little bit wiser.. Todd, if that were true only one time out of ten I'd still be inclined to say the 10th time makes the other nine times worth it. But I'd remind you of a couple of things, two list threads in particular from a bit more than a year ago, I'm sure you'll remember them: Oil and Israel, and Fahrenheit 9/11. Even if you don't remember them, I sure as hell do. Far from the only examples to be sure, but stark enough to make the point. Real-world communities and virtual ones are not the same, the same behaviour can have very different results, and the same people can behave very differently. In a virtual community, what's more likely is that the Lowest Common Denominator factor will rule if it's allowed to, and the list community itself becomes a little bit dumber. Or a lot dumber. We've seen that enough times too. Not here. It's highly probable that they'd take us with them. All best Keith Todd Swearingen But they are taking us with them. Appal Energy wrote: Keith, We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. You're correct. But it takes all the fun out of it if nipped in the bud. Much more entertaining to watch them swing in the wind on a rope of their own choosing. Give 'em enough rope to hang themselves and most usually will. Todd Swearingen Hi Todd You could be right, I don't know. Maybe it's a genuine comment - what do the latest polls say about how many Americans still believe Saddam Hussein was linked to 9/11 and Al Qaeda and his WMD threatened the US? How long ago did we totally trash all that here, three years ago or was it four? But I'm not concerned about what he thinks or what he believes, you don't just simply ignore people who question what you've said. Or not here anyway. We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. Best put a stop to it at the outset. It's an example, I'm not saying it applies to Michael. But he made a statement, it's been questioned, he should either support his statement or withdraw it. That's what he'd have to do if it was a face-to-face discussion among a group of people rather than a virtual group, and IMHO there shouldn't be any difference. Anyway, Thanksgiving, I hope you all had a good holiday - much to give thanks for, and much to grieve over too. Much to be done if there's not to be less of the first and more of the second this time next year. My very best wishes for that, and everybody else's too I'm sure. All best Keith Hey Keith, Just let him stew over his own statement and mis-beliefs. You see, people who make such remarks generally have nothing to back up their words. But their hope is that others will say nothing and just let their words stand, allowing a little more doubt to be spread amongst the few gullible or uninformed people who might still remain. It's guerrilla tactics at best, knowing full well that the armory has been empty for a very long time and that the last roll of hard tack was just washed down with stale water. In this case, it's he who some sympathy should be extended towards. He knows a sinking, worm-ridden ship when he sees one. Unfortunately he's too proud to admit that he's been duped all along and still clings to some hope that if he keeps his eyes closed tight for long enough that reality will somehow be different. We should all wish him well with his folly on this holiday, as his rude awakening is inevitably just around the corner. Todd Swearingen Michael Jones wrote: And I feel sorry for anyone who believes this. Based on what, exactly? Anything more substantial than your opinion? Other list members have questioned you too. A response with some substance to it is required please. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals.
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Keith, Much more entertaining to watch them swing in the wind on a rope of their own choosing :-) I'm not sure I share your gruesome sense of entertainment. Seeing stupidity exposed has always warmed the cockles of my heart. And, as it's only a suicide/execution of untenable philosophical or political beliefs - it's perfectly acceptable to conduct same in a public place/manner. Shoot. It doesn't bother me if everyone sets up tables and sells food, drink and trinkets through it all. The more merriment the better. :-) Todd Swearingen Hi Todd Keith, We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. You're correct. But it takes all the fun out of it if nipped in the bud. Much more entertaining to watch them swing in the wind on a rope of their own choosing. :-) I'm not sure I share your gruesome sense of entertainment. Give 'em enough rope to hang themselves and most usually will. Let's see now, how does it go, the old refrain: as list-owner my first obligation is to the list itself and the issues it represents, my second obligation is to the individual members, until they put the first obligation at risk. As far as I'm concerned, what that means is that they're welcome to hang themselves if they want to but they should do it somewhere else. Meanwhile no word from Michael Jones. Sigh... Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
I think we've gone a bit off course here. AsPitt-Rivers said in his speech to the American Veterans for Peace conferenceback in '02, seeingBush as the author of ourforeign policy is the equivalent ofblaming Mickey Mouse when Disney screws up. In other words, the real movers and shakersare the good ole boyswho form theCarlisle group, one of the offshoots of the military-industrial complex which really runs America. Bush is simply the patsy in front of house. Regards, Bob. - Original Message - From: Dietmar To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally I was always wandering how Bush couldbe elected in the first place. He seems to be even worse thanhisfather was. Dietmar ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
The stakes are pretty high. Keith Addison wrote: Hi Todd Keith, We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. You're correct. But it takes all the fun out of it if nipped in the bud. Much more entertaining to watch them swing in the wind on a rope of their own choosing. :-) I'm not sure I share your gruesome sense of entertainment. Give 'em enough rope to hang themselves and most usually will. Let's see now, how does it go, the old refrain: as list-owner my first obligation is to the list itself and the issues it represents, my second obligation is to the individual members, until they put the first obligation at risk. As far as I'm concerned, what that means is that they're welcome to hang themselves if they want to but they should do it somewhere else. Meanwhile no word from Michael Jones. Sigh... Best Keith Todd Swearingen Hi Todd You could be right, I don't know. Maybe it's a genuine comment - what do the latest polls say about how many Americans still believe Saddam Hussein was linked to 9/11 and Al Qaeda and his WMD threatened the US? How long ago did we totally trash all that here, three years ago or was it four? But I'm not concerned about what he thinks or what he believes, you don't just simply ignore people who question what you've said. Or not here anyway. We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. Best put a stop to it at the outset. It's an example, I'm not saying it applies to Michael. But he made a statement, it's been questioned, he should either support his statement or withdraw it. That's what he'd have to do if it was a face-to-face discussion among a group of people rather than a virtual group, and IMHO there shouldn't be any difference. Anyway, Thanksgiving, I hope you all had a good holiday - much to give thanks for, and much to grieve over too. Much to be done if there's not to be less of the first and more of the second this time next year. My very best wishes for that, and everybody else's too I'm sure. All best Keith Hey Keith, Just let him stew over his own statement and mis-beliefs. You see, people who make such remarks generally have nothing to back up their words. But their hope is that others will say nothing and just let their words stand, allowing a little more doubt to be spread amongst the few gullible or uninformed people who might still remain. It's guerrilla tactics at best, knowing full well that the armory has been empty for a very long time and that the last roll of hard tack was just washed down with stale water. In this case, it's he who some sympathy should be extended towards. He knows a sinking, worm-ridden ship when he sees one. Unfortunately he's too proud to admit that he's been duped all along and still clings to some hope that if he keeps his eyes closed tight for long enough that reality will somehow be different. We should all wish him well with his folly on this holiday, as his rude awakening is inevitably just around the corner. Todd Swearingen Michael Jones wrote: And I feel sorry for anyone who believes this. Based on what, exactly? Anything more substantial than your opinion? Other list members have questioned you too. A response with some substance to it is required please. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
I did not mean in the realm of discourse on this list; I meant that the current US administration is dragging the US and a large part of the world down with it. Bust does not have a mandate from 48.5% of the populace (or whatever - tho' I think both elections were fishy), and last I checked the The coalition of the willing was small and had dwindled to tiny. Keith Addison wrote: Mike, Are they really? Then all the more reason to let them evidence their own stupidity and ignorance. There's a biblical verse that I've always been partial to. It's My people perish for lack of knowledge. They did then (although it refers more towards spiritual knowledge) and they still do now. Let others display how patently little they know and oddly enough everyone becomes a little bit wiser.. Todd, if that were true only one time out of ten I'd still be inclined to say the 10th time makes the other nine times worth it. But I'd remind you of a couple of things, two list threads in particular from a bit more than a year ago, I'm sure you'll remember them: Oil and Israel, and Fahrenheit 9/11. Even if you don't remember them, I sure as hell do. Far from the only examples to be sure, but stark enough to make the point. Real-world communities and virtual ones are not the same, the same behaviour can have very different results, and the same people can behave very differently. In a virtual community, what's more likely is that the Lowest Common Denominator factor will rule if it's allowed to, and the list community itself becomes a little bit dumber. Or a lot dumber. We've seen that enough times too. Not here. It's highly probable that they'd take us with them. All best Keith Todd Swearingen But they are taking us with them. Appal Energy wrote: Keith, We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. You're correct. But it takes all the fun out of it if nipped in the bud. Much more entertaining to watch them swing in the wind on a rope of their own choosing. Give 'em enough rope to hang themselves and most usually will. Todd Swearingen Hi Todd You could be right, I don't know. Maybe it's a genuine comment - what do the latest polls say about how many Americans still believe Saddam Hussein was linked to 9/11 and Al Qaeda and his WMD threatened the US? How long ago did we totally trash all that here, three years ago or was it four? But I'm not concerned about what he thinks or what he believes, you don't just simply ignore people who question what you've said. Or not here anyway. We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. Best put a stop to it at the outset. It's an example, I'm not saying it applies to Michael. But he made a statement, it's been questioned, he should either support his statement or withdraw it. That's what he'd have to do if it was a face-to-face discussion among a group of people rather than a virtual group, and IMHO there shouldn't be any difference. Anyway, Thanksgiving, I hope you all had a good holiday - much to give thanks for, and much to grieve over too. Much to be done if there's not to be less of the first and more of the second this time next year. My very best wishes for that, and everybody else's too I'm sure. All best Keith Hey Keith, Just let him stew over his own statement and mis-beliefs. You see, people who make such remarks generally have nothing to back up their words. But their hope is that others will say nothing and just let their words stand, allowing a little more doubt to be spread amongst the few gullible or uninformed people who might still remain. It's guerrilla tactics at best, knowing full well that the armory has been empty for a very long time and that the last roll of hard tack was just washed down with stale water. In this case, it's he who some sympathy should be extended towards. He knows a sinking, worm-ridden ship when he sees one. Unfortunately he's too proud to admit that he's been duped all along and still clings to some hope that if he keeps his eyes closed tight for long enough that reality will somehow be different. We should all wish him well with his folly on this holiday, as his rude awakening is inevitably just around the corner. Todd Swearingen Michael Jones wrote: And I feel sorry for anyone who believes this. Based on what, exactly? Anything more substantial than your opinion? Other list members have questioned you too. A response with some substance to it is required please. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
-- Original Message -- From: bmolloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 09:59:23 +1300 Bush's father is a member of Carlisle, as was O'Bin Laden's dad. Elder Bin Laden isn't anymore. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Don't forget Bechtel radema wrote: -- Original Message -- From: bmolloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 09:59:23 +1300 Bush's father is a member of Carlisle, as was O'Bin Laden's dad. Elder Bin Laden isn't anymore. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Even if it was turned into a toothpick! regards Doug On Friday 25 November 2005 10:26, Kenji James Fuse wrote: My lips ain't touching that bush... On Thu, 24 Nov 2005, Ken Riznyk wrote: Will somebody please give this man a blowjob so we can impeach him. --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lovely. Absolutely lovely. If this proves to be true, then we unequivocally have a mad man loose in the White House who shouldn't be left alone to his own thoughts for one moment for the duration of his term of office. That or stack it on the list of evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, for his impeachement. Todd Swearingen http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. But he was talked out of it at a White House summit by Tony Blair, who said it would provoke a worldwide backlash. A source said: There's no doubt what Bush wanted, and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. Al-Jazeera is accused by the US of fuelling the Iraqi insurgency. The attack would have led to a massacre of innocents on the territory of a key ally, enraged the Middle East and almost certainly have sparked bloody retaliation. A source said last night: The memo is explosive and hugely damaging to Bush. He made clear he wanted to bomb al-Jazeera in Qatar and elsewhere. Blair replied that would cause a big problem. There's no doubt what Bush wanted to do - and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. A Government official suggested that the Bush threat had been humorous, not serious. But another source declared: Bush was deadly serious, as was Blair. That much is absolutely clear from the language used by both men. Yesterday former Labour Defence Minister Peter Kilfoyle challenged Downing Street to publish the five-page transcript of the two leaders' conversation. He said: It's frightening to think that such a powerful man as Bush can propose such cavalier actions. I hope the Prime Minister insists this memo be published. It gives an insight into the mindset of those who were the architects of war. Bush disclosed his plan to target al-Jazeera, a civilian station with a huge Mid-East following, at a White House face-to-face with Mr Blair on April 16 last year. At the time, the US was launching an all-out assault on insurgents in the Iraqi town of Fallujah. Al-Jazeera infuriated Washington and London by reporting from behind rebel lines and broadcasting pictures of dead soldiers, private contractors and Iraqi victims. The station, watched by millions, has also been used by bin Laden and al-Qaeda to broadcast atrocities and to threaten the West. Al-Jazeera's HQ is in the business district of Qatar's capital, Doha. Its single-storey buildings would have made an easy target for bombers. As it is sited away from residential areas, and more than 10 miles from the US's desert base in Qatar, there would have been no danger of collateral damage. Dozens of al-Jazeera staff at the HQ are not, as many believe, Islamic fanatics. Instead, most are respected and highly trained technicians and journalists. To have wiped them out would have been equivalent to bombing the BBC in London and the most spectacular foreign policy disaster since the Iraq War itself. The No 10 memo now raises fresh doubts over US claims that previous attacks against al-Jazeera staff were military errors. In 2001 the station's Kabul office was knocked out by two smart bombs. In 2003, al-Jazeera reporter Tareq Ayyoub was killed in a US missile strike on the station's Baghdad centre. The memo, which also included details of troop deployments, turned up in May last year at the Northampton constituency office of then Labour MP Tony Clarke. Cabinet Office civil servant David Keogh, 49, is accused under the Official Secrets Act of passing it to Leo O'Connor, 42, who used to work for Mr Clarke. Both are bailed to appear at Bow Street court next week. Mr Clarke, who lost at the election, returned the memo to No 10. He said Mr O'Connor had behaved perfectly correctly. Neither Mr O'Connor or Mr Keogh were available. No 10
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
I was always wandering how Bush couldbe elected in the first place. He seems to be even worse thanhisfather was. Dietmar ---Original Message--- From: Doug Foskey Date: 11/25/05 09:03:39 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Even if it was turned into a toothpick! regards Doug On Friday 25 November 2005 10:26, Kenji James Fuse wrote: My lips ain't touching that bush... On Thu, 24 Nov 2005, Ken Riznyk wrote: Will somebody please give this man a blowjob so we can impeach him. --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lovely. Absolutely lovely. If this proves to be true, then we unequivocally have a mad man loose in the White House who shouldn't be left alone to his own thoughts for one moment for the duration of his term of office. That or stack it on the list of evidence, "circumstantial" or otherwise, for his impeachement. Todd Swearingen http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 "The Mirror" -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a "Top Secret" No 10 memo reveals. But he was talked out of it at a White House summit by Tony Blair, who said it would provoke a worldwide backlash. A source said: "There's no doubt what Bush wanted, and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it." Al-Jazeera is accused by the US of fuelling the Iraqi insurgency. The attack would have led to a massacre of innocents on the territory of a key ally, enraged the Middle East and almost certainly have sparked bloody retaliation. A source said last night: "The memo is explosive and hugely damaging to Bush. "He made clear he wanted to bomb al-Jazeera in Qatar and elsewhere. Blair replied that would cause a big problem. "There's no doubt what Bush wanted to do - and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it." A Government official suggested that the Bush threat had been "humorous, not serious". But another source declared: "Bush was deadly serious, as was Blair. That much is absolutely clear from the language used by both men." Yesterday former Labour Defence Minister Peter Kilfoyle challenged Downing Street to publish the five-page transcript of the two leaders' conversation. He said: "It's frightening to think that such a powerful man as Bush can propose such cavalier actions. "I hope the Prime Minister insists this memo be published. It gives an insight into the mindset of those who were the architects of war." Bush disclosed his plan to target al-Jazeera, a civilian station with a huge Mid-East following, at a White House face-to-face with Mr Blair on April 16 last year. At the time, the US was launching an all-out assault on insurgents in the Iraqi town of Fallujah. Al-Jazeera infuriated Washington and London by reporting from behind rebel lines and broadcasting pictures of dead soldiers, private contractors and Iraqi victims. The station, watched by millions, has also been used by bin Laden and al-Qaeda to broadcast atrocities and to threaten the West. Al-Jazeera's HQ is in the business district of Qatar's capital, Doha. Its single-storey buildings would have made an easy target for bombers. As it is sited away from residential areas, and more than 10 miles from the US's desert base in Qatar, there would have been no danger of "collateral damage". Dozens of al-Jazeera staff at the HQ are not, as many believe, Islamic fanatics. Instead, most are respected and highly trained technicians and journalists. To have wiped them out would have been equivalent to bombing the BBC in London and the most spectacular foreign policy disaster since the Iraq War itself. The No 10 memo now raises fresh doubts over US claims that previous attacks against al-Jazeera staff were military errors. In 2001 the station's Kabul office was knocked out by two "smart" bombs. In 2003, al-Jazeera reporter Tareq Ayyoub was killed in a US missile strike on the station's Baghdad centre. The memo, which also included details of troop deployments, turned up in May last year at the Northampton constituency office of then Labour MP Tony Clarke. Cabinet Office
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
squeaky voice I'm a war-time president! Freedom Hater! /squeaky voice Appal Energy wrote: Hey Keith, Just let him stew over his own statement and mis-beliefs. You see, people who make such remarks generally have nothing to back up their words. But their hope is that others will say nothing and just let their words stand, allowing a little more doubt to be spread amongst the few gullible or uninformed people who might still remain. It's guerrilla tactics at best, knowing full well that the armory has been empty for a very long time and that the last roll of hard tack was just washed down with stale water. In this case, it's he who some sympathy should be extended towards. He knows a sinking, worm-ridden ship when he sees one. Unfortunately he's too proud to admit that he's been duped all along and still clings to some hope that if he keeps his eyes closed tight for long enough that reality will somehow be different. We should all wish him well with his folly on this holiday, as his rude awakening is inevitably just around the corner. Todd Swearingen Michael Jones wrote: And I feel sorry for anyone who believes this. Based on what, exactly? Anything more substantial than your opinion? Other list members have questioned you too. A response with some substance to it is required please. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Looks like our Keith is onto something:
Paper Says Bush Talked of Bombing Arab TV Network
By Kevin Sullivan and Walter Pincus
Washington Post Foreign Service
Wednesday, November 23, 2005; Page A14
LONDON, Nov. 22 -- President Bush expressed interest in bombing the
headquarters of the Arabic television network al-Jazeera during a White
House conversation with Prime Minister Tony Blair in April 2004, a
British newspaper reported Tuesday.
The Daily Mirror report was attributed to two anonymous sources
describing a classified document they said contained a transcript of the
two leaders' talk. One source is quoted as saying Bush's alleged remark
concerning the network's headquarters in Qatar was humorous, not
serious, while the other said, Bush was deadly serious.
javascript:void(popitup('http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/postphotos/orb/asection/2005-11-23/index.html?imgId=PH2005112201919imgUrl=/photo/2005/11/22/PH2005112201919.html',650,850))
A frame grab from Abu Dhabi television shows people carrying Al-Jazeera
television correspondent Tareq Ayub in a blanket after he was killed in
a US missile strike on the station's Baghdad offices 08 April 2003.
Al-Jazeera's cameraman Zuheir al-Iraqi was hit in the neck by shrapnel
in what the Qatar-based Arabic news network charged was a deliberate
strike. AFP PHOTO/ABU DHABI TV
javascript:void(popitup('http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/postphotos/orb/asection/2005-11-23/index.html?imgId=PH2005112201919imgUrl=/photo/2005/11/22/PH2005112201919.html',650,850))
A frame grab from Abu Dhabi television shows people carrying Al-Jazeera
television correspondent Tareq Ayub in a blanket after he was killed in
a US missile strike on the station's Baghdad offices 08 April 2003.
Al-Jazeera's cameraman Zuheir al-Iraqi was hit in the neck by shrapnel
in what the Qatar-based Arabic news network charged was a deliberate
strike. AFP PHOTO/ABU DHABI TV (Abu Dhabi Tv/via Afp)
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In Washington, a senior diplomat said the Bush remark as recounted in
the newspaper sounds like one of the president's one-liners that is
meant as a joke. But, the diplomat said, it was foolish for someone to
write it down, and now it will be a story for days.
We are not interested in dignifying something so outlandish and
inconceivable with a response, White House spokesman Scott McClellan
told the Associated Press in an e-mail.
Al-Jazeera has frequently aired recorded statements from al Qaeda
figures. Bush administration officials have contended that through that
type of broadcasting the network often serves as a conduit for terrorist
propaganda.
In 2003, during the invasion of Iraq, a U.S. missile hit the network's
office in Baghdad, killing a correspondent. U.S. officials called the
incident an accident. In 2001, American bombs exploded in its bureau in
Kabul, Afghanistan. Washington said the targeting officers did not know
that the site was an office of the television service, believing instead
that it was used by al Qaeda.
A former senior U.S. intelligence official said that it was clear the
White House saw al-Jazeera as a problem, but that although the CIA's
clandestine service came up with plans to counteract it, such as
planting people on its staff, it never received permission to proceed.
Bombing in Qatar was never contemplated, the former official said.
A spokesman for Blair's office declined to comment on grounds that the
document is part of a criminal investigation. Two civil servants have
been charged with violating Britain's Official Secrets Act for allegedly
disclosing the document.
According to a source quoted in the Daily Mail, Blair told Bush that
bombing al-Jazeera would cause a big problem. The source was also
quoted as saying: There's no doubt what Bush wanted to do -- and no
doubt Blair didn't want him to do it.
The network is based in downtown Doha, the capital of Qatar, a Persian
Gulf state that is closely allied with the United States and has allowed
U.S. forces to base their military headquarters there during the Iraq war.
Al-Jazeera, in a statement released Tuesday evening, said it was trying
to verify the newspaper's account and called on Blair's office to clear
up the issue.
If the report is correct, then this would be both shocking and
worrisome not only to al-Jazeera but to media
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
I heard that The Wasington Post had picked up this story - anyone have more info? Doug Foskey wrote: Even if it was turned into a toothpick! regards Doug On Friday 25 November 2005 10:26, Kenji James Fuse wrote: My lips ain't touching that bush... On Thu, 24 Nov 2005, Ken Riznyk wrote: Will somebody please give this man a blowjob so we can impeach him. --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lovely. Absolutely lovely. If this proves to be true, then we unequivocally have a mad man loose in the White House who shouldn't be left alone to his own thoughts for one moment for the duration of his term of office. That or stack it on the list of evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, for his impeachement. Todd Swearingen http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. But he was talked out of it at a White House summit by Tony Blair, who said it would provoke a worldwide backlash. A source said: There's no doubt what Bush wanted, and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. Al-Jazeera is accused by the US of fuelling the Iraqi insurgency. The attack would have led to a massacre of innocents on the territory of a key ally, enraged the Middle East and almost certainly have sparked bloody retaliation. A source said last night: The memo is explosive and hugely damaging to Bush. He made clear he wanted to bomb al-Jazeera in Qatar and elsewhere. Blair replied that would cause a big problem. There's no doubt what Bush wanted to do - and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. A Government official suggested that the Bush threat had been humorous, not serious. But another source declared: Bush was deadly serious, as was Blair. That much is absolutely clear from the language used by both men. Yesterday former Labour Defence Minister Peter Kilfoyle challenged Downing Street to publish the five-page transcript of the two leaders' conversation. He said: It's frightening to think that such a powerful man as Bush can propose such cavalier actions. I hope the Prime Minister insists this memo be published. It gives an insight into the mindset of those who were the architects of war. Bush disclosed his plan to target al-Jazeera, a civilian station with a huge Mid-East following, at a White House face-to-face with Mr Blair on April 16 last year. At the time, the US was launching an all-out assault on insurgents in the Iraqi town of Fallujah. Al-Jazeera infuriated Washington and London by reporting from behind rebel lines and broadcasting pictures of dead soldiers, private contractors and Iraqi victims. The station, watched by millions, has also been used by bin Laden and al-Qaeda to broadcast atrocities and to threaten the West. Al-Jazeera's HQ is in the business district of Qatar's capital, Doha. Its single-storey buildings would have made an easy target for bombers. As it is sited away from residential areas, and more than 10 miles from the US's desert base in Qatar, there would have been no danger of collateral damage. Dozens of al-Jazeera staff at the HQ are not, as many believe, Islamic fanatics. Instead, most are respected and highly trained technicians and journalists. To have wiped them out would have been equivalent to bombing the BBC in London and the most spectacular foreign policy disaster since the Iraq War itself. The No 10 memo now raises fresh doubts over US claims that previous attacks against al-Jazeera staff were military errors. In 2001 the station's Kabul office was knocked out by two smart bombs. In 2003, al-Jazeera reporter Tareq Ayyoub was killed in a US missile strike on the station's Baghdad centre. The memo, which also included details of troop deployments, turned up in May last year at the Northampton constituency office of then Labour MP Tony Clarke. Cabinet Office civil servant David Keogh, 49, is
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
This was all over DC's gossip gang before it hit the papers. There are always plenty on stories but not all are credible. The Bush drinking story won't die but I have yet so see any real journalist pick it up. Keith Addison wrote: Michael Jones wrote: And I feel sorry for anyone who believes this. Based on what, exactly? Anything more substantial than your opinion? Other list members have questioned you too. A response with some substance to it is required please. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
It would probably prove fatal to Cheney. Fred Finch wrote: I think Chaney is too busy hiding in an undisclosed location. On 11/24/05, *Ken Riznyk* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Will somebody please give this man a blowjob so we can impeach him. --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lovely. Absolutely lovely. If this proves to be true, then we unequivocally have a mad man loose in the White House who shouldn't be left alone to his own thoughts for one moment for the duration of his term of office. That or stack it on the list of evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, for his impeachement. Todd Swearingen http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. But he was talked out of it at a White House summit by Tony Blair, who said it would provoke a worldwide backlash. A source said: There's no doubt what Bush wanted, and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. Al-Jazeera is accused by the US of fuelling the Iraqi insurgency. The attack would have led to a massacre of innocents on the territory of a key ally, enraged the Middle East and almost certainly have sparked bloody retaliation. A source said last night: The memo is explosive and hugely damaging to Bush. He made clear he wanted to bomb al-Jazeera in Qatar and elsewhere. Blair replied that would cause a big problem. There's no doubt what Bush wanted to do - and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. A Government official suggested that the Bush threat had been humorous, not serious. But another source declared: Bush was deadly serious, as was Blair. That much is absolutely clear from the language used by both men. Yesterday former Labour Defence Minister Peter Kilfoyle challenged Downing Street to publish the five-page transcript of the two leaders' conversation. He said: It's frightening to think that such a powerful man as Bush can propose such cavalier actions. I hope the Prime Minister insists this memo be published. It gives an insight into the mindset of those who were the architects of war. Bush disclosed his plan to target al-Jazeera, a civilian station with a huge Mid-East following, at a White House face-to-face with Mr Blair on April 16 last year. At the time, the US was launching an all-out assault on insurgents in the Iraqi town of Fallujah. Al-Jazeera infuriated Washington and London by reporting from behind rebel lines and broadcasting pictures of dead soldiers, private contractors and Iraqi victims. The station, watched by millions, has also been used by bin Laden and al-Qaeda to broadcast atrocities and to threaten the West. Al-Jazeera's HQ is in the business district of Qatar's capital, Doha. Its single-storey buildings would have made an easy target for bombers. As it is sited away from residential areas, and more than 10 miles from the US's desert base in Qatar, there would have been no danger of collateral damage. Dozens of al-Jazeera staff at the HQ are not, as many believe, Islamic fanatics. Instead, most are respected and highly trained technicians and journalists. To have wiped them out would have been equivalent to bombing the BBC in London and the most spectacular foreign policy disaster since the Iraq War itself. The No 10 memo now raises fresh doubts over US claims that previous attacks against al-Jazeera staff were military errors. In 2001 the station's Kabul office was knocked out by two smart bombs. In 2003, al-Jazeera reporter Tareq Ayyoub was killed in a US missile strike on the station's Baghdad centre. The memo, which also included details of troop deployments, turned up in May last year at the Northampton constituency office of then Labour MP Tony Clarke. Cabinet Office civil servant David Keogh, 49, is accused under the Official Secrets Act of passing it to Leo O'Connor, 42, who used to work for Mr Clarke. Both are
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Actually, my sources tell me Bush has a whole list: First Al Jazeera, then The New York Times, then The Post... bob allen wrote: here are a couple: ENGLAND: London - A civil servant has been charged under Britain's Official Secrets Act for allegedly leaking a government memo that a newspaper said Tuesday suggested that Prime Minister Tony Blair persuaded President Bush not to bomb the Arab satellite station Al-Jazeera. The Daily Mirror reported that Bush spoke of targeting Al-Jazeera's headquarters in Doha, Qatar, when he met Blair at the White House on April 16, 2004. The Bush administration has regularly accused Al-Jazeera of being nothing more than a mouthpiece for anti-American sentiments. The Daily Mirror attributed its information to unidentified sources. http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/local/13236822.htm It is alleged that Keogh, who has been charged under section 5 of the Official Secrets Act, sent the memo to O'Connor sometime between April 16 and May 28 of last year. O'Connor, also charged, then took the document to his boss, Clarke, who dutifully handed it back to the government. O'Connor and Keogh were arrested in August of last year; the charges have just recently been filed. http://rawstory.com/news/2005/UK_Press_Gagged_by_Attorney_General_1123.html Mike Weaver wrote: Where did you learn about the arrest? Send the source. Walker Bennett wrote: The source has been documented and the leaker of the minutes has been arrested and is awaiting arraignment. What are you, Republican? Walker Bennett Sedona, Arizona I do not fear computers. I fear lack of them. --Isaac Asimov /My personal homepage http://ca.geocities.com/vladilyich// /My writing portfolio http://www.writing.com/authors/vladilyich// /*In The Beginning http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1411638484/qid=1127593489/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-7808048-9688144?v=glances=books - */*ISBN*: *1-4116-3848-4* */Just In Time http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1411638514/qid=1127593489/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-7808048-9688144?v=glances=books - /ISBN 1-4116-3851-4* **Available from Amazon.Com */Ad Astra -/* Coming Soon from Cydonia Publishing -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Michael Jones *Sent:* Wednesday, November 23, 2005 8:58 AM *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject:* [Bulk] Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally And I feel sorry for anyone who believes this. */Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Hi Todd You could be right, I don't know. Maybe it's a genuine comment - what do the latest polls say about how many Americans still believe Saddam Hussein was linked to 9/11 and Al Qaeda and his WMD threatened the US? How long ago did we totally trash all that here, three years ago or was it four? But I'm not concerned about what he thinks or what he believes, you don't just simply ignore people who question what you've said. Or not here anyway. We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. Best put a stop to it at the outset. It's an example, I'm not saying it applies to Michael. But he made a statement, it's been questioned, he should either support his statement or withdraw it. That's what he'd have to do if it was a face-to-face discussion among a group of people rather than a virtual group, and IMHO there shouldn't be any difference. Anyway, Thanksgiving, I hope you all had a good holiday - much to give thanks for, and much to grieve over too. Much to be done if there's not to be less of the first and more of the second this time next year. My very best wishes for that, and everybody else's too I'm sure. All best Keith Hey Keith, Just let him stew over his own statement and mis-beliefs. You see, people who make such remarks generally have nothing to back up their words. But their hope is that others will say nothing and just let their words stand, allowing a little more doubt to be spread amongst the few gullible or uninformed people who might still remain. It's guerrilla tactics at best, knowing full well that the armory has been empty for a very long time and that the last roll of hard tack was just washed down with stale water. In this case, it's he who some sympathy should be extended towards. He knows a sinking, worm-ridden ship when he sees one. Unfortunately he's too proud to admit that he's been duped all along and still clings to some hope that if he keeps his eyes closed tight for long enough that reality will somehow be different. We should all wish him well with his folly on this holiday, as his rude awakening is inevitably just around the corner. Todd Swearingen Michael Jones wrote: And I feel sorry for anyone who believes this. Based on what, exactly? Anything more substantial than your opinion? Other list members have questioned you too. A response with some substance to it is required please. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Both the Post and NYT ran a short blurb on it and CNN mentioned it (briefly). According to the BBC and the London papers, the fellow who "leaked" it has been arrested and is awaiting trial.Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I heard that The Wasington Post had picked up this story - anyone have more info?Walker (Ben W. Gardner)___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Keith, We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. You're correct. But it takes all the fun out of it if nipped in the bud. Much more entertaining to watch them swing in the wind on a rope of their own choosing. Give 'em enough rope to hang themselves and most usually will. Todd Swearingen Hi Todd You could be right, I don't know. Maybe it's a genuine comment - what do the latest polls say about how many Americans still believe Saddam Hussein was linked to 9/11 and Al Qaeda and his WMD threatened the US? How long ago did we totally trash all that here, three years ago or was it four? But I'm not concerned about what he thinks or what he believes, you don't just simply ignore people who question what you've said. Or not here anyway. We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. Best put a stop to it at the outset. It's an example, I'm not saying it applies to Michael. But he made a statement, it's been questioned, he should either support his statement or withdraw it. That's what he'd have to do if it was a face-to-face discussion among a group of people rather than a virtual group, and IMHO there shouldn't be any difference. Anyway, Thanksgiving, I hope you all had a good holiday - much to give thanks for, and much to grieve over too. Much to be done if there's not to be less of the first and more of the second this time next year. My very best wishes for that, and everybody else's too I'm sure. All best Keith Hey Keith, Just let him stew over his own statement and mis-beliefs. You see, people who make such remarks generally have nothing to back up their words. But their hope is that others will say nothing and just let their words stand, allowing a little more doubt to be spread amongst the few gullible or uninformed people who might still remain. It's guerrilla tactics at best, knowing full well that the armory has been empty for a very long time and that the last roll of hard tack was just washed down with stale water. In this case, it's he who some sympathy should be extended towards. He knows a sinking, worm-ridden ship when he sees one. Unfortunately he's too proud to admit that he's been duped all along and still clings to some hope that if he keeps his eyes closed tight for long enough that reality will somehow be different. We should all wish him well with his folly on this holiday, as his rude awakening is inevitably just around the corner. Todd Swearingen Michael Jones wrote: And I feel sorry for anyone who believes this. Based on what, exactly? Anything more substantial than your opinion? Other list members have questioned you too. A response with some substance to it is required please. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
But they are taking us with them. Appal Energy wrote: Keith, We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. You're correct. But it takes all the fun out of it if nipped in the bud. Much more entertaining to watch them swing in the wind on a rope of their own choosing. Give 'em enough rope to hang themselves and most usually will. Todd Swearingen Hi Todd You could be right, I don't know. Maybe it's a genuine comment - what do the latest polls say about how many Americans still believe Saddam Hussein was linked to 9/11 and Al Qaeda and his WMD threatened the US? How long ago did we totally trash all that here, three years ago or was it four? But I'm not concerned about what he thinks or what he believes, you don't just simply ignore people who question what you've said. Or not here anyway. We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. Best put a stop to it at the outset. It's an example, I'm not saying it applies to Michael. But he made a statement, it's been questioned, he should either support his statement or withdraw it. That's what he'd have to do if it was a face-to-face discussion among a group of people rather than a virtual group, and IMHO there shouldn't be any difference. Anyway, Thanksgiving, I hope you all had a good holiday - much to give thanks for, and much to grieve over too. Much to be done if there's not to be less of the first and more of the second this time next year. My very best wishes for that, and everybody else's too I'm sure. All best Keith Hey Keith, Just let him stew over his own statement and mis-beliefs. You see, people who make such remarks generally have nothing to back up their words. But their hope is that others will say nothing and just let their words stand, allowing a little more doubt to be spread amongst the few gullible or uninformed people who might still remain. It's guerrilla tactics at best, knowing full well that the armory has been empty for a very long time and that the last roll of hard tack was just washed down with stale water. In this case, it's he who some sympathy should be extended towards. He knows a sinking, worm-ridden ship when he sees one. Unfortunately he's too proud to admit that he's been duped all along and still clings to some hope that if he keeps his eyes closed tight for long enough that reality will somehow be different. We should all wish him well with his folly on this holiday, as his rude awakening is inevitably just around the corner. Todd Swearingen Michael Jones wrote: And I feel sorry for anyone who believes this. Based on what, exactly? Anything more substantial than your opinion? Other list members have questioned you too. A response with some substance to it is required please. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
We could only hope so! On 11/25/05, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would probably prove fatal to Cheney.Fred Finch wrote: I think Chaney is too busy hiding in an undisclosed location. On 11/24/05, *Ken Riznyk* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Will somebody please give this man a blowjob so we can impeach him. --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lovely. Absolutely lovely. If this proves to be true, then we unequivocally have a mad man loose in the White House who shouldn't be left alone to his own thoughts for one moment for the duration of his term of office. That or stack it on the list of evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, for his impeachement. Todd Swearingenhttp://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab AllyMadness of war memoBy Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals.But he was talked out of it at a White House summit by Tony Blair, who said it would provoke a worldwide backlash. A source said: There's no doubt what Bush wanted, and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. Al-Jazeera is accused by the US of fuelling the Iraqi insurgency.The attack would have led to a massacre of innocents on the territory of a key ally, enraged the Middle East and almost certainly have sparked bloody retaliation.A source said last night: The memo is explosive and hugely damaging to Bush. He made clear he wanted to bomb al-Jazeera in Qatar and elsewhere. Blair replied that would cause a big problem. There's no doubt what Bush wanted to do - and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it.A Government official suggested that the Bush threat had been humorous, not serious.But another source declared: Bush was deadly serious, as was Blair. That much is absolutely clear from the language used by both men.Yesterday former Labour Defence Minister Peter Kilfoyle challenged Downing Street to publish the five-page transcript of the two leaders' conversation. He said: It's frightening to think that such a powerful man as Bush can propose such cavalier actions.I hope the Prime Minister insists this memo be published. It gives an insight into the mindset of those who were the architects of war.Bush disclosed his plan to target al-Jazeera, a civilian station with a huge Mid-East following, at a White House face-to-face with Mr Blair on April 16 last year.At the time, the US was launching an all-out assault on insurgents in the Iraqi town of Fallujah.Al-Jazeera infuriated Washington and London by reporting from behind rebel lines and broadcasting pictures of dead soldiers, private contractors and Iraqi victims.The station, watched by millions, has also been used by bin Laden and al-Qaeda to broadcast atrocities and to threaten the West.Al-Jazeera's HQ is in the business district of Qatar's capital, Doha. Its single-storey buildings would have made an easy target for bombers. As it is sited away from residential areas, and more than 10 miles from the US's desert base in Qatar, there would have been no danger of collateral damage.Dozens of al-Jazeera staff at the HQ are not, as many believe, Islamic fanatics. Instead, most are respected and highly trained technicians and journalists.To have wiped them out would have been equivalent to bombing the BBC in London and the most spectacular foreign policy disaster since the Iraq War itself.The No 10 memo now raises fresh doubts over US claims that previous attacks against al-Jazeera staff were military errors.In 2001 the station's Kabul office was knocked out by two smart bombs. In 2003, al-Jazeera reporter Tareq Ayyoub was killed in a US missile strike on the station's Baghdad centre. The memo, which also included details of troop deployments, turned up in May last year at the Northampton constituency office of then Labour MP Tony Clarke.Cabinet Office civil servant David Keogh, 49, is accused under the Official Secrets Act of passing it to Leo O'Connor, 42, who used to work for Mr Clarke. Both are bailed to appear at Bow Street court next week.Mr Clarke, who lost at the election, returned the memo to No 10.He said Mr O'Connor had behaved perfectly correctly.Neither Mr O'Connor or Mr Keogh were available. No 10 did not comment.Copyright - The Mirror ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Mike, Are they really? Then all the more reason to let them evidence their own stupidity and ignorance. There's a biblical verse that I've always been partial to. It's My people perish for lack of knowledge. They did then (although it refers more towards spiritual knowledge) and they still do now. Let others display how patently little they know and oddly enough everyone becomes a little bit wiser.. Todd Swearingen But they are taking us with them. Appal Energy wrote: Keith, We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. You're correct. But it takes all the fun out of it if nipped in the bud. Much more entertaining to watch them swing in the wind on a rope of their own choosing. Give 'em enough rope to hang themselves and most usually will. Todd Swearingen Hi Todd You could be right, I don't know. Maybe it's a genuine comment - what do the latest polls say about how many Americans still believe Saddam Hussein was linked to 9/11 and Al Qaeda and his WMD threatened the US? How long ago did we totally trash all that here, three years ago or was it four? But I'm not concerned about what he thinks or what he believes, you don't just simply ignore people who question what you've said. Or not here anyway. We've seen it plenty of times before, eh? What often happens next is that they pretend it didn't happen and come back a month or two later and do the same thing again, hit-and-run merchants. Best put a stop to it at the outset. It's an example, I'm not saying it applies to Michael. But he made a statement, it's been questioned, he should either support his statement or withdraw it. That's what he'd have to do if it was a face-to-face discussion among a group of people rather than a virtual group, and IMHO there shouldn't be any difference. Anyway, Thanksgiving, I hope you all had a good holiday - much to give thanks for, and much to grieve over too. Much to be done if there's not to be less of the first and more of the second this time next year. My very best wishes for that, and everybody else's too I'm sure. All best Keith Hey Keith, Just let him stew over his own statement and mis-beliefs. You see, people who make such remarks generally have nothing to back up their words. But their hope is that others will say nothing and just let their words stand, allowing a little more doubt to be spread amongst the few gullible or uninformed people who might still remain. It's guerrilla tactics at best, knowing full well that the armory has been empty for a very long time and that the last roll of hard tack was just washed down with stale water. In this case, it's he who some sympathy should be extended towards. He knows a sinking, worm-ridden ship when he sees one. Unfortunately he's too proud to admit that he's been duped all along and still clings to some hope that if he keeps his eyes closed tight for long enough that reality will somehow be different. We should all wish him well with his folly on this holiday, as his rude awakening is inevitably just around the corner. Todd Swearingen Michael Jones wrote: And I feel sorry for anyone who believes this. Based on what, exactly? Anything more substantial than your opinion? Other list members have questioned you too. A response with some substance to it is required please. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Where did you learn about the arrest? Send the source. Walker Bennett wrote: The source has been documented and the leaker of the minutes has been arrested and is awaiting arraignment. What are you, Republican? Walker Bennett Sedona, Arizona I do not fear computers. I fear lack of them. --Isaac Asimov /My personal homepage http://ca.geocities.com/vladilyich// /My writing portfolio http://www.writing.com/authors/vladilyich// /*In The Beginning http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1411638484/qid=1127593489/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-7808048-9688144?v=glances=books - */*ISBN*: *1-4116-3848-4* */Just In Time http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1411638514/qid=1127593489/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-7808048-9688144?v=glances=books - /ISBN 1-4116-3851-4* **Available from Amazon.Com */Ad Astra -/* Coming Soon from Cydonia Publishing -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Michael Jones *Sent:* Wednesday, November 23, 2005 8:58 AM *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject:* [Bulk] Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally And I feel sorry for anyone who believes this. */Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Will somebody please give this man a blowjob so we can impeach him. --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lovely. Absolutely lovely. If this proves to be true, then we unequivocally have a mad man loose in the White House who shouldn't be left alone to his own thoughts for one moment for the duration of his term of office. That or stack it on the list of evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, for his impeachement. Todd Swearingen http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. But he was talked out of it at a White House summit by Tony Blair, who said it would provoke a worldwide backlash. A source said: There's no doubt what Bush wanted, and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. Al-Jazeera is accused by the US of fuelling the Iraqi insurgency. The attack would have led to a massacre of innocents on the territory of a key ally, enraged the Middle East and almost certainly have sparked bloody retaliation. A source said last night: The memo is explosive and hugely damaging to Bush. He made clear he wanted to bomb al-Jazeera in Qatar and elsewhere. Blair replied that would cause a big problem. There's no doubt what Bush wanted to do - and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. A Government official suggested that the Bush threat had been humorous, not serious. But another source declared: Bush was deadly serious, as was Blair. That much is absolutely clear from the language used by both men. Yesterday former Labour Defence Minister Peter Kilfoyle challenged Downing Street to publish the five-page transcript of the two leaders' conversation. He said: It's frightening to think that such a powerful man as Bush can propose such cavalier actions. I hope the Prime Minister insists this memo be published. It gives an insight into the mindset of those who were the architects of war. Bush disclosed his plan to target al-Jazeera, a civilian station with a huge Mid-East following, at a White House face-to-face with Mr Blair on April 16 last year. At the time, the US was launching an all-out assault on insurgents in the Iraqi town of Fallujah. Al-Jazeera infuriated Washington and London by reporting from behind rebel lines and broadcasting pictures of dead soldiers, private contractors and Iraqi victims. The station, watched by millions, has also been used by bin Laden and al-Qaeda to broadcast atrocities and to threaten the West. Al-Jazeera's HQ is in the business district of Qatar's capital, Doha. Its single-storey buildings would have made an easy target for bombers. As it is sited away from residential areas, and more than 10 miles from the US's desert base in Qatar, there would have been no danger of collateral damage. Dozens of al-Jazeera staff at the HQ are not, as many believe, Islamic fanatics. Instead, most are respected and highly trained technicians and journalists. To have wiped them out would have been equivalent to bombing the BBC in London and the most spectacular foreign policy disaster since the Iraq War itself. The No 10 memo now raises fresh doubts over US claims that previous attacks against al-Jazeera staff were military errors. In 2001 the station's Kabul office was knocked out by two smart bombs. In 2003, al-Jazeera reporter Tareq Ayyoub was killed in a US missile strike on the station's Baghdad centre. The memo, which also included details of troop deployments, turned up in May last year at the Northampton constituency office of then Labour MP Tony Clarke. Cabinet Office civil servant David Keogh, 49, is accused under the Official Secrets Act of passing it to Leo O'Connor, 42, who used to work for Mr Clarke. Both are bailed to appear at Bow Street court next week. Mr Clarke, who lost at the election, returned the memo to No 10. He said Mr O'Connor had behaved perfectly correctly. Neither Mr O'Connor or Mr Keogh were available. No 10 did not comment. Copyright - The Mirror ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
I think Chaney is too busy hiding in an undisclosed location.On 11/24/05, Ken Riznyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Will somebody please give this man a blowjob so we canimpeach him.--- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lovely. Absolutely lovely. If this proves to be true, then we unequivocally have a mad man loose in the White House who shouldn't be left alone to his own thoughts for one moment for the duration of his term of office. That or stack it on the list of evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, for his impeachement. Todd Swearingenhttp://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. But he was talked out of it at a White House summit by Tony Blair, who said it would provoke a worldwide backlash. A source said: There's no doubt what Bush wanted, and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. Al-Jazeera is accused by the US of fuelling the Iraqi insurgency. The attack would have led to a massacre of innocents on the territory of a key ally, enraged the Middle East and almost certainly have sparked bloody retaliation. A source said last night: The memo is explosive and hugely damaging to Bush. He made clear he wanted to bomb al-Jazeera in Qatar and elsewhere. Blair replied that would cause a big problem. There's no doubt what Bush wanted to do - and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. A Government official suggested that the Bush threat had been humorous, not serious. But another source declared: Bush was deadly serious, as was Blair. That much is absolutely clear from the language used by both men. Yesterday former Labour Defence Minister Peter Kilfoyle challenged Downing Street to publish the five-page transcript of the two leaders' conversation. He said: It's frightening to think that such a powerful man as Bush can propose such cavalier actions. I hope the Prime Minister insists this memo be published. It gives an insight into the mindset of those who were the architects of war. Bush disclosed his plan to target al-Jazeera, a civilian station with a huge Mid-East following, at a White House face-to-face with Mr Blair on April 16 last year. At the time, the US was launching an all-out assault on insurgents in the Iraqi town of Fallujah. Al-Jazeera infuriated Washington and London by reporting from behind rebel lines and broadcasting pictures of dead soldiers, private contractors and Iraqi victims. The station, watched by millions, has also been used by bin Laden and al-Qaeda to broadcast atrocities and to threaten the West. Al-Jazeera's HQ is in the business district of Qatar's capital, Doha. Its single-storey buildings would have made an easy target for bombers. As it is sited away from residential areas, and more than 10 miles from the US's desert base in Qatar, there would have been no danger of collateral damage. Dozens of al-Jazeera staff at the HQ are not, as many believe, Islamic fanatics. Instead, most are respected and highly trained technicians and journalists. To have wiped them out would have been equivalent to bombing the BBC in London and the most spectacular foreign policy disaster since the Iraq War itself. The No 10 memo now raises fresh doubts over US claims that previous attacks against al-Jazeera staff were military errors. In 2001 the station's Kabul office was knocked out by two smart bombs. In 2003, al-Jazeera reporter Tareq Ayyoub was killed in a US missile strike on the station's Baghdad centre. The memo, which also included details of troop deployments, turned up in May last year at the Northampton constituency office of then Labour MP Tony Clarke. Cabinet Office civil servant David Keogh, 49, is accused under the Official Secrets Act of passing it to Leo O'Connor, 42, who used to work for Mr Clarke. Both are bailed to appear at Bow Street court next week. Mr Clarke, who lost at the election, returned the memo to No 10. He said Mr O'Connor had behaved perfectly correctly. Neither Mr O'Connor or Mr Keogh were available. No 10 did not comment. Copyright - The Mirror ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Michael Jones wrote: And I feel sorry for anyone who believes this. Based on what, exactly? Anything more substantial than your opinion? Other list members have questioned you too. A response with some substance to it is required please. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
My lips ain't touching that bush... On Thu, 24 Nov 2005, Ken Riznyk wrote: Will somebody please give this man a blowjob so we can impeach him. --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lovely. Absolutely lovely. If this proves to be true, then we unequivocally have a mad man loose in the White House who shouldn't be left alone to his own thoughts for one moment for the duration of his term of office. That or stack it on the list of evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, for his impeachement. Todd Swearingen http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. But he was talked out of it at a White House summit by Tony Blair, who said it would provoke a worldwide backlash. A source said: There's no doubt what Bush wanted, and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. Al-Jazeera is accused by the US of fuelling the Iraqi insurgency. The attack would have led to a massacre of innocents on the territory of a key ally, enraged the Middle East and almost certainly have sparked bloody retaliation. A source said last night: The memo is explosive and hugely damaging to Bush. He made clear he wanted to bomb al-Jazeera in Qatar and elsewhere. Blair replied that would cause a big problem. There's no doubt what Bush wanted to do - and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. A Government official suggested that the Bush threat had been humorous, not serious. But another source declared: Bush was deadly serious, as was Blair. That much is absolutely clear from the language used by both men. Yesterday former Labour Defence Minister Peter Kilfoyle challenged Downing Street to publish the five-page transcript of the two leaders' conversation. He said: It's frightening to think that such a powerful man as Bush can propose such cavalier actions. I hope the Prime Minister insists this memo be published. It gives an insight into the mindset of those who were the architects of war. Bush disclosed his plan to target al-Jazeera, a civilian station with a huge Mid-East following, at a White House face-to-face with Mr Blair on April 16 last year. At the time, the US was launching an all-out assault on insurgents in the Iraqi town of Fallujah. Al-Jazeera infuriated Washington and London by reporting from behind rebel lines and broadcasting pictures of dead soldiers, private contractors and Iraqi victims. The station, watched by millions, has also been used by bin Laden and al-Qaeda to broadcast atrocities and to threaten the West. Al-Jazeera's HQ is in the business district of Qatar's capital, Doha. Its single-storey buildings would have made an easy target for bombers. As it is sited away from residential areas, and more than 10 miles from the US's desert base in Qatar, there would have been no danger of collateral damage. Dozens of al-Jazeera staff at the HQ are not, as many believe, Islamic fanatics. Instead, most are respected and highly trained technicians and journalists. To have wiped them out would have been equivalent to bombing the BBC in London and the most spectacular foreign policy disaster since the Iraq War itself. The No 10 memo now raises fresh doubts over US claims that previous attacks against al-Jazeera staff were military errors. In 2001 the station's Kabul office was knocked out by two smart bombs. In 2003, al-Jazeera reporter Tareq Ayyoub was killed in a US missile strike on the station's Baghdad centre. The memo, which also included details of troop deployments, turned up in May last year at the Northampton constituency office of then Labour MP Tony Clarke. Cabinet Office civil servant David Keogh, 49, is accused under the Official Secrets Act of passing it to Leo O'Connor, 42, who used to work for Mr Clarke. Both are bailed to appear at Bow Street court next week. Mr Clarke, who lost at the election, returned the memo to No 10. He said Mr O'Connor had behaved perfectly correctly. Neither Mr O'Connor or Mr Keogh were available. No 10 did not comment. Copyright - The Mirror ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Hey Keith, Just let him stew over his own statement and mis-beliefs. You see, people who make such remarks generally have nothing to back up their words. But their hope is that others will say nothing and just let their words stand, allowing a little more doubt to be spread amongst the few gullible or uninformed people who might still remain. It's guerrilla tactics at best, knowing full well that the armory has been empty for a very long time and that the last roll of hard tack was just washed down with stale water. In this case, it's he who some sympathy should be extended towards. He knows a sinking, worm-ridden ship when he sees one. Unfortunately he's too proud to admit that he's been duped all along and still clings to some hope that if he keeps his eyes closed tight for long enough that reality will somehow be different. We should all wish him well with his folly on this holiday, as his rude awakening is inevitably just around the corner. Todd Swearingen Michael Jones wrote: And I feel sorry for anyone who believes this. Based on what, exactly? Anything more substantial than your opinion? Other list members have questioned you too. A response with some substance to it is required please. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. But he was talked out of it at a White House summit by Tony Blair, who said it would provoke a worldwide backlash. A source said: There's no doubt what Bush wanted, and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. Al-Jazeera is accused by the US of fuelling the Iraqi insurgency. The attack would have led to a massacre of innocents on the territory of a key ally, enraged the Middle East and almost certainly have sparked bloody retaliation. A source said last night: The memo is explosive and hugely damaging to Bush. He made clear he wanted to bomb al-Jazeera in Qatar and elsewhere. Blair replied that would cause a big problem. There's no doubt what Bush wanted to do - and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. A Government official suggested that the Bush threat had been humorous, not serious. But another source declared: Bush was deadly serious, as was Blair. That much is absolutely clear from the language used by both men. Yesterday former Labour Defence Minister Peter Kilfoyle challenged Downing Street to publish the five-page transcript of the two leaders' conversation. He said: It's frightening to think that such a powerful man as Bush can propose such cavalier actions. I hope the Prime Minister insists this memo be published. It gives an insight into the mindset of those who were the architects of war. Bush disclosed his plan to target al-Jazeera, a civilian station with a huge Mid-East following, at a White House face-to-face with Mr Blair on April 16 last year. At the time, the US was launching an all-out assault on insurgents in the Iraqi town of Fallujah. Al-Jazeera infuriated Washington and London by reporting from behind rebel lines and broadcasting pictures of dead soldiers, private contractors and Iraqi victims. The station, watched by millions, has also been used by bin Laden and al-Qaeda to broadcast atrocities and to threaten the West. Al-Jazeera's HQ is in the business district of Qatar's capital, Doha. Its single-storey buildings would have made an easy target for bombers. As it is sited away from residential areas, and more than 10 miles from the US's desert base in Qatar, there would have been no danger of collateral damage. Dozens of al-Jazeera staff at the HQ are not, as many believe, Islamic fanatics. Instead, most are respected and highly trained technicians and journalists. To have wiped them out would have been equivalent to bombing the BBC in London and the most spectacular foreign policy disaster since the Iraq War itself. The No 10 memo now raises fresh doubts over US claims that previous attacks against al-Jazeera staff were military errors. In 2001 the station's Kabul office was knocked out by two smart bombs. In 2003, al-Jazeera reporter Tareq Ayyoub was killed in a US missile strike on the station's Baghdad centre. The memo, which also included details of troop deployments, turned up in May last year at the Northampton constituency office of then Labour MP Tony Clarke. Cabinet Office civil servant David Keogh, 49, is accused under the Official Secrets Act of passing it to Leo O'Connor, 42, who used to work for Mr Clarke. Both are bailed to appear at Bow Street court next week. Mr Clarke, who lost at the election, returned the memo to No 10. He said Mr O'Connor had behaved perfectly correctly. Neither Mr O'Connor or Mr Keogh were available. No 10 did not comment. Copyright - The Mirror ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Lovely. Absolutely lovely. If this proves to be true, then we unequivocally have a mad man loose in the White House who shouldn't be left alone to his own thoughts for one moment for the duration of his term of office. That or stack it on the list of evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, for his impeachement. Todd Swearingen http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htm Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals. But he was talked out of it at a White House summit by Tony Blair, who said it would provoke a worldwide backlash. A source said: There's no doubt what Bush wanted, and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. Al-Jazeera is accused by the US of fuelling the Iraqi insurgency. The attack would have led to a massacre of innocents on the territory of a key ally, enraged the Middle East and almost certainly have sparked bloody retaliation. A source said last night: The memo is explosive and hugely damaging to Bush. He made clear he wanted to bomb al-Jazeera in Qatar and elsewhere. Blair replied that would cause a big problem. There's no doubt what Bush wanted to do - and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it. A Government official suggested that the Bush threat had been humorous, not serious. But another source declared: Bush was deadly serious, as was Blair. That much is absolutely clear from the language used by both men. Yesterday former Labour Defence Minister Peter Kilfoyle challenged Downing Street to publish the five-page transcript of the two leaders' conversation. He said: It's frightening to think that such a powerful man as Bush can propose such cavalier actions. I hope the Prime Minister insists this memo be published. It gives an insight into the mindset of those who were the architects of war. Bush disclosed his plan to target al-Jazeera, a civilian station with a huge Mid-East following, at a White House face-to-face with Mr Blair on April 16 last year. At the time, the US was launching an all-out assault on insurgents in the Iraqi town of Fallujah. Al-Jazeera infuriated Washington and London by reporting from behind rebel lines and broadcasting pictures of dead soldiers, private contractors and Iraqi victims. The station, watched by millions, has also been used by bin Laden and al-Qaeda to broadcast atrocities and to threaten the West. Al-Jazeera's HQ is in the business district of Qatar's capital, Doha. Its single-storey buildings would have made an easy target for bombers. As it is sited away from residential areas, and more than 10 miles from the US's desert base in Qatar, there would have been no danger of collateral damage. Dozens of al-Jazeera staff at the HQ are not, as many believe, Islamic fanatics. Instead, most are respected and highly trained technicians and journalists. To have wiped them out would have been equivalent to bombing the BBC in London and the most spectacular foreign policy disaster since the Iraq War itself. The No 10 memo now raises fresh doubts over US claims that previous attacks against al-Jazeera staff were military errors. In 2001 the station's Kabul office was knocked out by two smart bombs. In 2003, al-Jazeera reporter Tareq Ayyoub was killed in a US missile strike on the station's Baghdad centre. The memo, which also included details of troop deployments, turned up in May last year at the Northampton constituency office of then Labour MP Tony Clarke. Cabinet Office civil servant David Keogh, 49, is accused under the Official Secrets Act of passing it to Leo O'Connor, 42, who used to work for Mr Clarke. Both are bailed to appear at Bow Street court next week. Mr Clarke, who lost at the election, returned the memo to No 10. He said Mr O'Connor had behaved perfectly correctly. Neither Mr O'Connor or Mr Keogh were available. No 10 did not comment. Copyright - The Mirror ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
And I feel sorry for anyone who believes this.Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htmExclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab AllyMadness of war memoBy Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines11/22/05 "The Mirror" -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a "Top Secret" No 10 memo reveals.But he was talked out of it at a White House summit by Tony Blair, who said it would provoke a worldwide backlash.A source said: "There's no doubt what Bush wanted, and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it." Al-Jazeera is accused by the US of fuelling the Iraqi insurgency.The attack would have led to a massacre of innocents on the territory of a key ally, enraged the Middle East and almost certainly have sparked bloody retaliation.A source said last night: "The memo is explosive and hugely damaging to Bush."He made clear he wanted to bomb al-Jazeera in Qatar and elsewhere. Blair replied that would cause a big problem."There's no doubt what Bush wanted to do - and no doubt Blair didn't want him to do it."A Government official suggested that the Bush threat had been "humorous, not serious".But another source declared: "Bush was deadly serious, as was Blair. That much is absolutely clear from the language used by both men."Yesterday former Labour Defence Minister Peter Kilfoyle challenged Downing Street to publish the five-page transcript of the two leaders' conversation. He said: "It's frightening to think that such a powerful man as Bush can propose such cavalier actions."I hope the Prime Minister insists this memo be published. It gives an insight into the mindset of those who were the architects of war."Bush disclosed his plan to target al-Jazeera, a civilian station with a huge Mid-East following, at a White House face-to-face with Mr Blair on April 16 last year.At the time, the US was launching an all-out assault on insurgents in the Iraqi town of Fallujah.Al-Jazeera infuriated Washington and London by reporting from behind rebel lines and broadcasting pictures of dead soldiers, private contractors and Iraqi victims.The station, watched by millions, has also been used by bin Laden and al-Qaeda to broadcast atrocities and to threaten the West.Al-Jazeera's HQ is in the business district of Qatar's capital, Doha.Its single-storey buildings would have made an easy target for bombers. As it is sited away from residential areas, and more than 10 miles from the US's desert base in Qatar, there would have been no danger of "collateral damage".Dozens of al-Jazeera staff at the HQ are not, as many believe, Islamic fanatics. Instead, most are respected and highly trained technicians and journalists.To have wiped them out would have been equivalent to bombing the BBC in London and the most spectacular foreign policy disaster since the Iraq War itself.The No 10 memo now raises fresh doubts over US claims that previous attacks against al-Jazeera staff were military errors.In 2001 the station's Kabul office was knocked out by two "smart" bombs. In 2003, al-Jazeera reporter Tareq Ayyoub was killed in a US missile strike on the station's Baghdad centre.The memo, which also included details of troop deployments, turned up in May last year at the Northampton constituency office of then Labour MP Tony Clarke.Cabinet Office civil servant David Keogh, 49, is accused under the Official Secrets Act of passing it to Leo O'Connor, 42, who used to work for Mr Clarke. Both are bailed to appear at Bow Street court next week.Mr Clarke, who lost at the election, returned the memo to No 10.He said Mr O'Connor had behaved "perfectly correctly".Neither Mr O'Connor or Mr Keogh were available. No 10 did not comment.Copyright - The Mirror ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Title: Message The source has been documented and the "leaker" of the minutes has been arrested and is awaiting arraignment. What are you, Republican? Walker Bennett Sedona, Arizona "I do not fear computers. I fear lack of them." --Isaac Asimov My personal homepage My writing portfolio In The Beginning - ISBN: 1-4116-3848-4 Just In Time - ISBN 1-4116-3851-4 Available from Amazon.Com Ad Astra - Coming Soon from Cydonia Publishing -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael JonesSent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 8:58 AMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Bulk] Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally And I feel sorry for anyone who believes this.Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2.htmExclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab AllyMadness of war memoBy Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
