Re: [Biofuel] rockets, turbines and compressed air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first, your opinions (please).
Interesting, I never tried mixing heated ingredients to make solid rocket fuel for model engines. We used a specially shaped ram with wet fuel, kind of like dough. You put in clay first to ram (press) the nozzle at the bottom of the tube, then the fuel. When it hardened, there would be a cone-shaped hollow up through the solid fuel. Worked good but you couldn't get too long with the tube or it would explode in flight. Read about the dangers and follow safety rules and you will likely remain alive. Regards, Emil -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alt.EnergyNetwork Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:26 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] rockets,turbines and compressed air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first, your opinions (please). Hi all, I used to be fascinated by this stuff when I was a kid and used to do a lot of pyro with building solid fuel model rockets. My friends and I would mix the materials on the kitchen stove and pour the molten fuel into cardboard tubes to harden around an cone shape at the bottom of the tube. Once electronically launched on our pad they would shoot up maybe a few hundred feet. That ended abruptly when I smoke bombed my mothers kitchen once accidently when mixing the ingredients!! So, I had done a lot of reading on rockets, ram jets, scram jets, v1, v2,s etc. Really fun stuff. If memory serves me correctly, Hitler used liquid paraffin and kerosene in the v2's. They were only designed to run for several minutes in flight. His scientists had also tried liquid parrafin and alcohol. One of the problems with these types of systems is that they used an incredable amount of fuel to operate for any length of time. Many air tools operate on an air turbine or piston design. You only need around 90psi to start doing some worth while work and it wouldn't be too hard to generate with wind or solar. I have operated a model air motor on compressed air for about 20 minutes with one of those tanks for tire fill ups @40 psi. Sizing up such a system might be very interesting. I have often though about a home system of wind /solar generated compressed air for use to run a turbine when there is no sun or wind. I have to do a lot more work on the cost effectiveness of such a design and component sourcing for a prototype but it is definately not that far fetched, unless I, or someone else convinces me otherwise. regards tallex Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ---Original Message--- From: Manzo, Emil [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Fwd: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please). Sent: 01 Sep '05 18:51 Hi Doug. 400 mph...oops...just a minor detail. Of course you're right. The SCRAM jet is the super-sonic version (supersonic combustion ram jet). I think the old German V1 (buzz-bomb) used a variation on the pulse jet that had a front-flap, allowing starting from a standing stop using only the turbine. It was quite advanced for the time. My vehicle will not be approaching 400mph any time soon...did I say hairbrained? Regards, Emil -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:02 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Fwd: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please). I seem to recall that the minimum airspeed for halfway reasonable efficiency with a ramjet is about 400 mph. Hiller once experimented with a small helicopter powered by ramjets on the rotor tips. I don't recall any mention of starting problems but I doubt it was easy. I believe that a fuel adaptable to forming a reasonably fine mist is needed for ramjets and gas turbines. Kerosene works and I believe the Germans used diesel fuel during the war. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Thu, 1 Sep 2005, Manzo, Emil wrote: Hi Joe, for no (very few) moving parts you need a ram-jet. Or as some used to call a scram jet. It is essentially a pipe with a venturi and a fuel injector. It needs to have air flowing through it before ignition, like if it was attached to a glider or vehicle. Once enough airspeed flows, the injector is activated and the fuel ignited producing thrust. I bet WVO would work for fuel :-). Another one of my hair-brained dreams Regards, Emil -Original Message- Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid news resources forums http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Get your daily alternative
Re: [Biofuel] rockets, turbines and compressed air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first, your opinions (please).
Hi, Yes, you basically melted sugar and add a couple of ingredients and poured the mixture into tubes and compacted with the cone shape at the bottom. They used to work even better when you had a string connected through a hole in the top of the cone. This string was tied at the top, centered on a nail. The molten fuel would form around the cone and when dry, the string was removed leaving a burn channel through the propellant. Yes you have to follow all the rules or you can blow something up Lots of fun but it would'nt be too hard to get arrested for some of these activities these days. How about a wood pellet fired turbine/generator for emergencies or equalization charging where gasoline or traditional fuels are not available? Maybe something positive about the current energy crisis... is finally spurring nations into agressively developing alternate fuel sources and renewable energy sources While the present (U.S) administration is not taking the problem seriously enough. The dire situation we are headed for is finally beginning to sink in with the general public, made painfully aware at the pump. In turn, they will be reminded everyday with increases in heating oil, electricity rates to practically everything else that relies on oil - ... either in manufacture or transporting the product/service to market. regards tallex Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ---Original Message--- From: Manzo, Emil [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] rockets, turbines and compressed air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first, your opinions (please). Sent: 02 Sep '05 13:10 Interesting, I never tried mixing heated ingredients to make solid rocket fuel for model engines. We used a specially shaped ram with wet fuel, kind of like dough. You put in clay first to ram (press) the nozzle at the bottom of the tube, then the fuel. When it hardened, there would be a cone-shaped hollow up through the solid fuel. Worked good but you couldn't get too long with the tube or it would explode in flight. Read about the dangers and follow safety rules and you will likely remain alive. Regards, Emil -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alt.EnergyNetwork Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:26 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] rockets,turbines and compressed air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first, your opinions (please). Hi all, I used to be fascinated by this stuff when I was a kid and used to do a lot of pyro with building solid fuel model rockets. My friends and I would mix the materials on the kitchen stove and pour the molten fuel into cardboard tubes to harden around an cone shape at the bottom of the tube. Once electronically launched on our pad they would shoot up maybe a few hundred feet. That ended abruptly when I smoke bombed my mothers kitchen once accidently when mixing the ingredients!! So, I had done a lot of reading on rockets, ram jets, scram jets, v1, v2,s etc. Really fun stuff. If memory serves me correctly, Hitler used liquid paraffin and kerosene in the v2's. They were only designed to run for several minutes in flight. His scientists had also tried liquid parrafin and alcohol. One of the problems with these types of systems is that they used an incredable amount of fuel to operate for any length of time. Many air tools operate on an air turbine or piston design. You only need around 90psi to start doing some worth while work and it wouldn't be too hard to generate with wind or solar. I have operated a model air motor on compressed air for about 20 minutes with one of those tanks for tire fill ups @40 psi. Sizing up such a system might be very interesting. I have often though about a home system of wind /solar generated compressed air for use to run a turbine when there is no sun or wind. I have to do a lot more work on the cost effectiveness of such a design and component sourcing for a prototype but it is definately not that far fetched, unless I, or someone else convinces me otherwise. regards tallex Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ---Original Message--- From: Manzo, Emil [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Fwd: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please). Sent: 01 Sep '05 18:51 Hi Doug. 400 mph...oops...just a minor detail. Of course you're right. The SCRAM jet is the super-sonic version (supersonic combustion ram jet). I think the old German V1 (buzz-bomb) used a variation on the pulse jet that had a
Re: [Biofuel] rockets, turbines and compressed air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first, your opinions (please).
Let me guess, potassium chlorate and sugar, cooked like candy to the hard crack stage on a candy thermometer? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Alt.EnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 15:26 Subject: [Biofuel] rockets,turbines and compressed air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first, your opinions (please). Hi all, I used to be fascinated by this stuff when I was a kid and used to do a lot of pyro with building solid fuel model rockets. My friends and I would mix the materials on the kitchen stove and pour the molten fuel into cardboard tubes to harden around an cone shape at the bottom of the tube. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] rockets, turbines and compressed air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first, your opinions (please).
No, We used various mixtures. Some times sodium nitrate, sulfur and sugar. Amonium nitrate, aluminum powder, suga, charcoal. You melted the sugar and added powdered sulfur and the nitrate after it had cooled down but before hardening. If you added the nitrates when the mixture was too hot, the whole mess would ignite in a massive smoke b-*b. Then it was compacted into cardboard tubes. Add other varoius powdered metals and chemical spheres and you have fireworks. You can fire them with a simple 12 vdc launch pad or potassium permanganate and a drop of glycerine automatically ignites when mixed. regards tallex Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ---Original Message--- From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] rockets, turbines and compressed air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first, your opinions (please). Sent: 02 Sep '05 13:56 Let me guess, potassium chlorate and sugar, cooked like candy to the hard crack stage on a candy thermometer? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Alt.EnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 15:26 Subject: [Biofuel] rockets,turbines and compressed air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first, your opinions (please). Hi all, I used to be fascinated by this stuff when I was a kid and used to do a lot of pyro with building solid fuel model rockets. My friends and I would mix the materials on the kitchen stove and pour the molten fuel into cardboard tubes to harden around an cone shape at the bottom of the tube. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ---Original Message--- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
