Hello to All,
This is an attempt to get things in focus for myself at least.
I think this topic started with Re:Biodiesel Quality Test
On 8/7/07 Mike W. stated that he allows his batches to settle for a week
before washing; No problems with wash.
On 8/7/07
I agreed, stated an
Joe,
he took washed esters that passed the methanol test and added water and
(of course) no emulsion when agitate
I used veg oil and water. (No emulsion)
Added Glycerin (split) . failed to separate (emulsion?)
I'll go back and test BD . will actually do
Jan Warnqvist wrote:
Hello Joe.
There were probably small amounts of mono- and diglycerides left in
the biodiesel, and/or possibly soaps which together are excellent
emulsifiers.
So then one would expect that the water added and shaken would emulsify
due to those mono and di-glycerides,
Keith,
You wrote:
I think this is a misunderstanding. I didn't say what you say below,
standardized; can't fail, and I didn't mean that standardising the
process means there's no need for tests,
I apologize for a poor choice of wording suggesting a
misunderstanding.
You are
Andres, Jan, Joe, Keith, and anyone else who has been following the saga,
It would seem that glycerine, itself, is not an effective emulsifier.
I've spent the morning experimenting in the kitchen. I did Wash Tests on BD
that passed the QT and BD that failed the QT. I tested one group with
Aarghh! - not Arden Anderson again! We went through all this a few weeks ago.
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg70226.html
Re: [Biofuel] Acres USA
Don't trust people with brix meters and a box of electrickery who
tell you they're going to balance your soil or energise
Hi Joe
Hi Keith;
See my answers below.
Keith Addison wrote:
Well, settling time is free.
Acid-base aside, there's the two-stage base-base process, which quite
a lot of people use and like, but otherwise why do more than one
stage? Do you mean two separate stages, with a methanol test in
Seaver out there somewhere?
Drop us a line, mate, if you are.
Thanks
Sorry for the interruption,
Back to our regular programming.
(btw, sorry I haven't posted in a while,
but I just haven't had much to say that I
could get in in less than a few thousand
words, and who wants to read that?)
Hi Tom
Hi Keith,
Then if you do one-litre test batches first, especially with iffy
batches of oil,
Ops.
I took Joe's point to be: If you have to re-process it is possible to
use info from the QT to determine how much (how little) methanol you'll need
to use.
I also took that
Hi Tom
Keith,
You wrote:
I think this is a misunderstanding. I didn't say what you say below,
standardized; can't fail, and I didn't mean that standardising the
process means there's no need for tests,
I apologize for a poor choice of wording suggesting a
misunderstanding.
Thankyou
Hi evereybody. I feel obliged to enter this discussion. Pure glycerine is
not a good emulsifier due to the fact that there are three OH-groups and
that the carbon s in the first and third positions are surronded by two
hydrogene atoms. This makes the glycerine hydrophilic in five places
Andres,
Emulsifiers contains a clear lipofilic and hidrofilic zones in
the molecule.
In mono- and di- glycerides the glycerin supplies the hydrophilic zone
and the fatty acid chain(s) supply the hydrophobic (lipophilic) zones.
The -OH groups in the glycerin give it regions of charge making
Hi Keith;
Most often the process comes to 95% or more complete and that is good
enough for me ( personal choice) and doesn't give me wash problems
either. Maybe 20% of the time it only gets to somewhere around 90% and
this is a problem. It tends to be most likely to happen when the
Hi Keith;
See my answers below.
Keith Addison wrote:
Well, settling time is free.
Acid-base aside, there's the two-stage base-base process, which quite
a lot of people use and like, but otherwise why do more than one
stage? Do you mean two separate stages, with a methanol test in
Hi all,
I just saw the tom experiment results. Think the small quantity of glycerol
increased the viscosity and that helps to stabilize the suspension. But I don
think this is stable for a long time or if it were an stable emulsion. More
likely a suspension wichis like an emulsion but not
Hello Joe.
There were probably small amounts of mono- and diglycerides left in the
biodiesel, and/or possibly soaps which together are excellent emulsifiers. A
strong acid will divide the glycerides into fatty acids and glycerine ,and the
soaps into salts and fatty acids, which then goes into a
Hi Jan;
Ok your post agrees with what Andres said. So how do we explain Tom's
experiment then? To recap (Tom correct me if I miss something here) he
took washed esters that passed the methanol test and added water and (of
course) no emulsion when agitated. Whatever mono and diglycerides
Hello Chip
Seaver out there somewhere?
He was once a list member but that was a few years back.
I'll email you offlist.
Best
Keith
Drop us a line, mate, if you are.
Thanks
Sorry for the interruption,
Back to our regular programming.
(btw, sorry I haven't posted in a while,
but I just
Thanks for the write up - has anyone mixed all this discussion up and
settled out the most salient points?
Joe Street wrote:
Thanks a lot Tom for all that work in a short time. You have really
shed some light on this discussion. Jumping to your questions at the
end, it seems clear then
Thanks a lot Tom for all that work in a short time. You have really
shed some light on this discussion. Jumping to your questions at the
end, it seems clear then that Jan and Andres were right on and it must
be the soap and mono-diglycerides etc rather than the glycerine itself
which is the
On this day in 1893 Rudolf Diesel’s engine ran for the first time, and
it ran on peanut oil. So today we celebrate “International Biodiesel
Day” and raise our glasses to the genius of using fuel that grows back!
Praise the Lard!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel#Historical_background
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Hello Mike
On this day in 1893 Rudolf Dieselís engine ran for the first time, and
it ran on peanut oil. So today we celebrate ìInternational Biodiesel
Dayî and raise our glasses to the genius of using fuel that grows back!
Praise the Lard!
http://members.aol.com/bblum6/aer48.htm
Anti-Empire Report, August 10, 2007
Read this or George W. Bush will be president the rest of your life
August 10, 2007
by William Blum
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