RE: [biofuel] Who Owns The Sky?/off topic but worth it?
I find it amazing that all the articles below state how another country's pollution is to blame for some of the problems in North America. These are probably written by the American government to lay the blame elsewhere. I hope in my lifetime I am able to see individuals take responsibility for their own actions. Alex McKinney Original Message Follows From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Who Owns The Sky?/off topic but worth it? Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 05:15:59 +0900 It is anybody´s wild guess when dollars will begin to obey the laws of nature. Andydownsouth They do, once you ignore the spin that says otherwise. The winds of free trade quite naturally favour the ships with the biggest sails. Free market forces naturally drive goods towards those with excess liquidity away from those without. It's just that we're supposed to believe the opposite is true. Adam Smith said two merchants cannot sit down for a cup of coffee together without plotting against the public good, and I guess that's natural too. Which doesn't make it right. But of course you're right - so is Manolo. Chinese atmospheric N-tests in the late 70s were said to have killed babies in New York. http://www.nandotimes.com/healthscience/story/195828p-1880494c.html Nevada air pollution found to originate in Mongolian desert -- Christian Science Monitor Service , December 16, 2001 http://ens.lycos.com/ens/may2001/2001L-05-31-07.html Ill Winds Carry Toxic Dust -- May 31, 2001 - Storms in places as distant as China and Africa have generated public attention with dust clouds that travel across oceans to North America, bringing with them living bacteria, fungi, heavy metals and other pollutants. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com:80/html/nationworld/134286076_haze18.html Parts of U.S. seeing Asian dust storm; unusual haze expected to dissipate soon -- The Associated Press, April 18, 2001, DENVER - A dust storm that started in Mongolia and picked up industrial pollution from China has spread a haze across a quarter of the mainland United States, experts said yesterday. Etc etc. Manolo wrote: the problem here that the sky puluted is not only owned by us citizens, and the more afected by climate change are the citizens far awey the us, like the ones afected by the mitch, or the starvation, on central america. Sadly, it's often the most vulnerable and innocent who seem to bear the brunt of it. and still other problem, big american enterprises goes to contaminate outside their bounderies where the polution and security laws are weak Yes, and big European and Japanese and Southeast Asian and other corporations also do that. Japanese companies deforest Southeast Asia, Southeast Asian companies deforest Africa and Latin America. Sadly the very concept of currency allows the accumulation of unatural amounts of wealth. Without chits one would be unable to squirrel away more wealth than one had a natural ability to spend relativly soon after it was created/gathered. It is also the concept of currency that allow some of the most physically unproductive human beings to accummulate wealth most easily. I speak from experience as I have been both. I have also seen that we all have power that CAN be used to facilitate incredable changes...but most prefer to believe thay do not and so by proxy hand that power over to those that most often, at least in my opinion, deserve it the least. Dana Quite right - but deserve power, as if it's a reward, or a valuable commodity? Well yes, sure it is, but isn't that what's wrong? David Brin fantasized Ben Franklin saying this (in 'The Postman'): It's said that 'power corrupts', but actually it's more true that power attracts the corruptible. The sane are usually attracted by other things than power. When they do act, they think of it as service, which has limits. The tyrant, though, seeks mastery, for which he is insatiable, implacable. Huxley said only angels could cope with power responsibly, but they invariably refused to accept it. Or something like that. Which partly explains why people cede power to others, competent or not - it's because they're sane. Also because that's the purpose of the spin industry (manufacturing consent etc), and partly because they're reluctant to accept the extra responsibility. It's not just political power, it holds true much closer to home. A very common reaction to biodiesel is sheer disbelief that any ordinary Joe can make his own fuel without being a Seven Sister - can generate his own power without being a massive utility or a coal mine, and so on and on. But wouldn't you agree that there's always a significant minority that doesn't think nor act that way, which is capable of effecting the groundswell of change and (real) progress that's always required in a society? Olga Lange wrote: I think there's an inherent problem with the whole
RE: [biofuel] Who Owns The Sky?/off topic but worth it?
I can't believe that you paint business men with such a broad brush. You assume that becuase someone is interested in a profit that means at any cost? Profit is one of the greatest motivators there is. The ability to make more so you can provide better for your children etc. I work for a large company and their rules of conduct are without question. I would not work for them otherwise. Would any of us have the jobs we have if they didn't help feed our families. I can assure you though I would and have quit working for a company that was managed by someone that made ethically poor decisions. You seem to assume that just because someone has money they must have done something illegal to get it. I would disagree. The free market naturally drives money to those people who make things people want. If everyone wanted to pay $26,000 for a Honda Insight instead of the old gas guzzling oil burning car they drive, we would have more cars like the Insight. BRAD --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is anybody¥s wild guess when dollars will begin to obey the laws of nature. Andydownsouth They do, once you ignore the spin that says otherwise. The winds of free trade quite naturally favour the ships with the biggest sails. Free market forces naturally drive goods towards those with excess liquidity away from those without. It's just that we're supposed to believe the opposite is true. Adam Smith said two merchants cannot sit down for a cup of coffee together without plotting against the public good, and I guess that's natural too. Which doesn't make it right. But of course you're right - so is Manolo. Chinese atmospheric N-tests in the late 70s were said to have killed babies in New York. http://www.nandotimes.com/healthscience/story/195828p-1880494c.html Nevada air pollution found to originate in Mongolian desert -- Christian Science Monitor Service , December 16, 2001 http://ens.lycos.com/ens/may2001/2001L-05-31-07.html Ill Winds Carry Toxic Dust -- May 31, 2001 - Storms in places as distant as China and Africa have generated public attention with dust clouds that travel across oceans to North America, bringing with them living bacteria, fungi, heavy metals and other pollutants. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com:80/html/nationworld/134286076_haze18.html Parts of U.S. seeing Asian dust storm; unusual haze expected to dissipate soon -- The Associated Press, April 18, 2001, DENVER - A dust storm that started in Mongolia and picked up industrial pollution from China has spread a haze across a quarter of the mainland United States, experts said yesterday. Etc etc. Manolo wrote: the problem here that the sky puluted is not only owned by us citizens, and the more afected by climate change are the citizens far awey the us, like the ones afected by the mitch, or the starvation, on central america. Sadly, it's often the most vulnerable and innocent who seem to bear the brunt of it. and still other problem, big american enterprises goes to contaminate outside their bounderies where the polution and security laws are weak Yes, and big European and Japanese and Southeast Asian and other corporations also do that. Japanese companies deforest Southeast Asia, Southeast Asian companies deforest Africa and Latin America. Sadly the very concept of currency allows the accumulation of unatural amounts of wealth. Without chits one would be unable to squirrel away more wealth than one had a natural ability to spend relativly soon after it was created/gathered. It is also the concept of currency that allow some of the most physically unproductive human beings to accummulate wealth most easily. I speak from experience as I have been both. I have also seen that we all have power that CAN be used to facilitate incredable changes...but most prefer to believe thay do not and so by proxy hand that power over to those that most often, at least in my opinion, deserve it the least. Dana Quite right - but deserve power, as if it's a reward, or a valuable commodity? Well yes, sure it is, but isn't that what's wrong? David Brin fantasized Ben Franklin saying this (in 'The Postman'): It's said that 'power corrupts', but actually it's more true that power attracts the corruptible. The sane are usually attracted by other things than power. When they do act, they think of it as service, which has limits. The tyrant, though, seeks mastery, for which he is insatiable, implacable. Huxley said only angels could cope with power responsibly, but they invariably refused to accept it. Or something like that. Which partly explains why people cede power to others, competent or not - it's because they're sane. Also because that's the purpose of the spin industry (manufacturing consent etc), and partly because they're reluctant to accept the extra
RE: [biofuel] Who Owns The Sky?/off topic but worth it?
To get back to what I think was the original thought on this subject; Is it excessive greed that causes whole societies to ignore that their pollution is causing problems downstream or downwind, preferring to believe that if they stay in the smoking section it does not affect those in the non-smoking section 3 feet distant. Yes. It is. And unfortunately, many societies, I would dare say most, are essentially ruled by their most excessively greedy members. Am I shouting abandon all hope? Not at all. I am encouraging all who will listen to decide early on in life what constitutes enough and to stick with that decision. You will be happier...I guarantee it. Spread this idea of enough and show others as I try to that enough aids in personal happiness much more than need more as a basis to judge your self. Generally I have seen those that decided I have enough ended up with more than enough on a regular basis after reaching that point. Invest what ever you have that is more than enough in helping others to decide what enough is and the idea spreads like a virus. I have also spent much of my more than enough on entertainment, essentially. I invest it in programs designed to hold those individuals responsible that cause great pain to many others by refusing to act responsibly. These programs actually force the responsibility back upon those excessively greedy individuals who profit at others expense by refusing to act in an ethical or responsible manner simply because they can legally do so. The entertainment value of these programs far exceeds that of ,say watching The Simpsons (an acerbic Fox animated comedy) each night. It may also be helping in a small way to make a better world. I applaud you for having personal ethics that would cause you to take a risk of quitting a job that forced you to support ethically poor decisions. But if everyone wanted to drive Honda Insights they would cost twice as much. I agree however that this would stimulate more production of expensive environmentally friendly cars. If however those owners of non environmentally friendly cars were forced to pay the entire cost of such a car...there would be no environmentally unfriendly cars. Dana --- Brad Gordon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't believe that you paint business men with such a broad brush. You assume that becuase someone is interested in a profit that means at any cost? Profit is one of the greatest motivators there is. The ability to make more so you can provide better for your children etc. I work for a large company and their rules of conduct are without question. I would not work for them otherwise. Would any of us have the jobs we have if they didn't help feed our families. I can assure you though I would and have quit working for a company that was managed by someone that made ethically poor decisions. You seem to assume that just because someone has money they must have done something illegal to get it. I would disagree. The free market naturally drives money to those people who make things people want. If everyone wanted to pay $26,000 for a Honda Insight instead of the old gas guzzling oil burning car they drive, we would have more cars like the Insight. BRAD snip __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Who Owns The Sky?/off topic but worth it?
Well reasoned and well said I agree that many stand in the no smoking section, to follow your example, and assume noone else is bothered. There are some companies in the US that moved to Mexico about 15 years ago and did just that with harmful results. That was greed. Most people aren't necessarily greedy but just don't care, lazy etc. Most people won't change their lifestyle to ensure that our environment is less polluted because that means they would have to do something or spend extra money. Most people don't get that we (talking about american citizens in this case) always end up paying for it one way or another. Also, the true costs are ignored because our government (USA) gets paid to ignore them. They make so much money from gasoline, booze and cigarrettes (can't spell) that we will always have them around. If people who used these items had to pay the real costs, they would cease to be sold or alternates found. The original message talked about a new group that would collect this wonderful money that the evil companies would pay which would then be distributed to all the poor downtrodden masses. You know our government would step in and create a program, waste half the money and share the rest with us. Our $1000 would be more like $5. and then our energy costs would go up by $100 because the money has to come from somewhere. When you add it all up, all US citizens pay the costs of all the stuff that goes on here. You can't charge a company more and just assume that the money magically appears out of nowhere and we all get rich. It would be more reasonable to have everyone in the US decrease electrical usage by 5% or drive their car 1 year longer or This would have more effect than all the regulations in the world. As with anything, companies always pass their costs along to the end user. To draw the biofuel issue into the mix... I am learning a great deal about making alternate fuels on this list. The discussions all look promising and seem to indicate that we are on the verge of using biofuels on a larger scale. As with many paradigm shifts (which using an alternate to petroleum really is) it will probably take a bunch of individual people prooving out the economics for biofuel on the small scale, then scaling up bigger and bigger. Until someone has a full scale production facility and becomes the next Phillips non-Petroleum. Or as more likely, getting big enough so the big oil companies buy the process and take over production. I would stake my next cup of coffee that if big oil companies could be shown that biofuel is more profitable than the present petroleum process, they would be into it before your could blink. All you biofuelers out there keep up the good work. BRAD --- Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To get back to what I think was the original thought on this subject; Is it excessive greed that causes whole societies to ignore that their pollution is causing problems downstream or downwind, preferring to believe that if they stay in the smoking section it does not affect those in the non-smoking section 3 feet distant. Yes. It is. And unfortunately, many societies, I would dare say most, are essentially ruled by their most excessively greedy members. Am I shouting abandon all hope? Not at all. I am encouraging all who will listen to decide early on in life what constitutes enough and to stick with that decision. You will be happier...I guarantee it. Spread this idea of enough and show others as I try to that enough aids in personal happiness much more than need more as a basis to judge your self. Generally I have seen those that decided I have enough ended up with more than enough on a regular basis after reaching that point. Invest what ever you have that is more than enough in helping others to decide what enough is and the idea spreads like a virus. I have also spent much of my more than enough on entertainment, essentially. I invest it in programs designed to hold those individuals responsible that cause great pain to many others by refusing to act responsibly. These programs actually force the responsibility back upon those excessively greedy individuals who profit at others expense by refusing to act in an ethical or responsible manner simply because they can legally do so. The entertainment value of these programs far exceeds that of ,say watching The Simpsons (an acerbic Fox animated comedy) each night. It may also be helping in a small way to make a better world. I applaud you for having personal ethics that would cause you to take a risk of quitting a job that forced you to support ethically poor decisions. But if everyone wanted to drive Honda Insights they would cost twice as much. I agree however that this would stimulate more production of expensive environmentally friendly cars. If however those owners of non environmentally friendly cars were
RE: [biofuel] Who Owns The Sky?/off topic but worth it?
Why be amazed? Pollution is pollution and the west is not the sole source. There are cities in Asia where it is hazardous to breathe. Any oxygen dispensing machines on the sidewalk near your home? Some places have them, and for a reason. Once in the air it moves and sometimes very long distances. To know in your heart the US gvt spreads disinformation is very true. But to think they have a corner on the market, sorry, all gvts represent the truth as they would have you see it. The tragedy is when science becomes political, not objective, and that is an every day occurrence now. Kirk -Original Message- From: Alex McKinney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 5:19 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Who Owns The Sky?/off topic but worth it? I find it amazing that all the articles below state how another country's pollution is to blame for some of the problems in North America. These are probably written by the American government to lay the blame elsewhere. I hope in my lifetime I am able to see individuals take responsibility for their own actions. Alex McKinney Original Message Follows From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Who Owns The Sky?/off topic but worth it? Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 05:15:59 +0900 It is anybody´s wild guess when dollars will begin to obey the laws of nature. Andydownsouth They do, once you ignore the spin that says otherwise. The winds of free trade quite naturally favour the ships with the biggest sails. Free market forces naturally drive goods towards those with excess liquidity away from those without. It's just that we're supposed to believe the opposite is true. Adam Smith said two merchants cannot sit down for a cup of coffee together without plotting against the public good, and I guess that's natural too. Which doesn't make it right. But of course you're right - so is Manolo. Chinese atmospheric N-tests in the late 70s were said to have killed babies in New York. http://www.nandotimes.com/healthscience/story/195828p-1880494c.html Nevada air pollution found to originate in Mongolian desert -- Christian Science Monitor Service , December 16, 2001 http://ens.lycos.com/ens/may2001/2001L-05-31-07.html Ill Winds Carry Toxic Dust -- May 31, 2001 - Storms in places as distant as China and Africa have generated public attention with dust clouds that travel across oceans to North America, bringing with them living bacteria, fungi, heavy metals and other pollutants. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com:80/html/nationworld/134286076_haze18.html Parts of U.S. seeing Asian dust storm; unusual haze expected to dissipate soon -- The Associated Press, April 18, 2001, DENVER - A dust storm that started in Mongolia and picked up industrial pollution from China has spread a haze across a quarter of the mainland United States, experts said yesterday. Etc etc. Manolo wrote: the problem here that the sky puluted is not only owned by us citizens, and the more afected by climate change are the citizens far awey the us, like the ones afected by the mitch, or the starvation, on central america. Sadly, it's often the most vulnerable and innocent who seem to bear the brunt of it. and still other problem, big american enterprises goes to contaminate outside their bounderies where the polution and security laws are weak Yes, and big European and Japanese and Southeast Asian and other corporations also do that. Japanese companies deforest Southeast Asia, Southeast Asian companies deforest Africa and Latin America. Sadly the very concept of currency allows the accumulation of unatural amounts of wealth. Without chits one would be unable to squirrel away more wealth than one had a natural ability to spend relativly soon after it was created/gathered. It is also the concept of currency that allow some of the most physically unproductive human beings to accummulate wealth most easily. I speak from experience as I have been both. I have also seen that we all have power that CAN be used to facilitate incredable changes...but most prefer to believe thay do not and so by proxy hand that power over to those that most often, at least in my opinion, deserve it the least. Dana Quite right - but deserve power, as if it's a reward, or a valuable commodity? Well yes, sure it is, but isn't that what's wrong? David Brin fantasized Ben Franklin saying this (in 'The Postman'): It's said that 'power corrupts', but actually it's more true that power attracts the corruptible. The sane are usually attracted by other things than power. When they do act, they think of it as service, which has limits. The tyrant, though, seeks mastery, for which he is insatiable, implacable. Huxley said only angels could cope with power responsibly, but they invariably refused to accept it. Or something like that. Which partly explains why people cede power
RE: [biofuel] Who Owns The Sky?/off topic but worth it?
Andres, It is anybody´s wild guess when dollars will begin to obey the laws of nature. Andydownsouth Sadly the very concept of currency allows the accumulation of unatural amounts of wealth. Without chits one would be unable to squirrel away more wealth than one had a natural ability to spend relativly soon after it was created/gathered. It is also the concept of currency that allow some of the most physically unproductive human beings to accummulate wealth most easily. I speak from experience as I have been both. I have also seen that we all have power that CAN be used to facilitate incredable changes...but most prefer to believe thay do not and so by proxy hand that power over to those that most often, at least in my opinion, deserve it the least. Dana --- Andrés_Stepkowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Manolo is right in that the sky does not end at the Big River boundary. The laws of nature (thermodynamics) tell us that mass flows always go in the direction of the more to the less. Heat moves from the hotter to the colder, water flows from the higher to the lower, and unfortunately, pollution also follows the law, but never stops at that imaginary border, and rather continues on to ravage my water, my beaches and my trees down here, or anywhere else. It is anybody´s wild guess when dollars will begin to obey the laws of nature. Andydownsouth __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Access Your PC from Anywhere It's Easy. It's Fun. - Free Download. http://us.click.yahoo.com/zWCYWA/7XkDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Who Owns The Sky?/off topic but worth it?
It is anybody´s wild guess when dollars will begin to obey the laws of nature. Andydownsouth They do, once you ignore the spin that says otherwise. The winds of free trade quite naturally favour the ships with the biggest sails. Free market forces naturally drive goods towards those with excess liquidity away from those without. It's just that we're supposed to believe the opposite is true. Adam Smith said two merchants cannot sit down for a cup of coffee together without plotting against the public good, and I guess that's natural too. Which doesn't make it right. But of course you're right - so is Manolo. Chinese atmospheric N-tests in the late 70s were said to have killed babies in New York. http://www.nandotimes.com/healthscience/story/195828p-1880494c.html Nevada air pollution found to originate in Mongolian desert -- Christian Science Monitor Service , December 16, 2001 http://ens.lycos.com/ens/may2001/2001L-05-31-07.html Ill Winds Carry Toxic Dust -- May 31, 2001 - Storms in places as distant as China and Africa have generated public attention with dust clouds that travel across oceans to North America, bringing with them living bacteria, fungi, heavy metals and other pollutants. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com:80/html/nationworld/134286076_haze18.html Parts of U.S. seeing Asian dust storm; unusual haze expected to dissipate soon -- The Associated Press, April 18, 2001, DENVER - A dust storm that started in Mongolia and picked up industrial pollution from China has spread a haze across a quarter of the mainland United States, experts said yesterday. Etc etc. Manolo wrote: the problem here that the sky puluted is not only owned by us citizens, and the more afected by climate change are the citizens far awey the us, like the ones afected by the mitch, or the starvation, on central america. Sadly, it's often the most vulnerable and innocent who seem to bear the brunt of it. and still other problem, big american enterprises goes to contaminate outside their bounderies where the polution and security laws are weak Yes, and big European and Japanese and Southeast Asian and other corporations also do that. Japanese companies deforest Southeast Asia, Southeast Asian companies deforest Africa and Latin America. Sadly the very concept of currency allows the accumulation of unatural amounts of wealth. Without chits one would be unable to squirrel away more wealth than one had a natural ability to spend relativly soon after it was created/gathered. It is also the concept of currency that allow some of the most physically unproductive human beings to accummulate wealth most easily. I speak from experience as I have been both. I have also seen that we all have power that CAN be used to facilitate incredable changes...but most prefer to believe thay do not and so by proxy hand that power over to those that most often, at least in my opinion, deserve it the least. Dana Quite right - but deserve power, as if it's a reward, or a valuable commodity? Well yes, sure it is, but isn't that what's wrong? David Brin fantasized Ben Franklin saying this (in 'The Postman'): It's said that 'power corrupts', but actually it's more true that power attracts the corruptible. The sane are usually attracted by other things than power. When they do act, they think of it as service, which has limits. The tyrant, though, seeks mastery, for which he is insatiable, implacable. Huxley said only angels could cope with power responsibly, but they invariably refused to accept it. Or something like that. Which partly explains why people cede power to others, competent or not - it's because they're sane. Also because that's the purpose of the spin industry (manufacturing consent etc), and partly because they're reluctant to accept the extra responsibility. It's not just political power, it holds true much closer to home. A very common reaction to biodiesel is sheer disbelief that any ordinary Joe can make his own fuel without being a Seven Sister - can generate his own power without being a massive utility or a coal mine, and so on and on. But wouldn't you agree that there's always a significant minority that doesn't think nor act that way, which is capable of effecting the groundswell of change and (real) progress that's always required in a society? Olga Lange wrote: I think there's an inherent problem with the whole idea of pollution credits and the commodifcation of our entire environment. How have we gotten to the point where we don't think it's absurd to charge rent for the sky? Also, as to who owns the sky, we all do--that all is not just homo sapiens. $1,000 checks for clams and koalas too? But if we're going to start charging rent, I've long felt that we should be charging storage fees for the toxic wastes in our lungs. Hear hear! (Not just in our lungs.) Frankly I think the whole idea of the Sky Trust is half-assed, but I suppose it is at least an approach to
RE: [biofuel] Who Owns The Sky?/off topic but worth it?
GOD owns the sky and i'm afraid that he's not too happy with our stewardship of it. kind regards roger kurz Andres, It is anybody«s wild guess when dollars will begin to obey the laws of nature. Andydownsouth Sadly the very concept of currency allows the accumulation of unatural amounts of wealth. Without chits one would be unable to squirrel away more wealth than one had a natural ability to spend relativly soon after it was created/gathered. It is also the concept of currency that allow some of the most physically unproductive human beings to accummulate wealth most easily. I speak from experience as I have been both. I have also seen that we all have power that CAN be used to facilitate incredable changes...but most prefer to believe thay do not and so by proxy hand that power over to those that most often, at least in my opinion, deserve it the least. Dana --- Andrs_Stepkowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Manolo is right in that the sky does not end at the Big River boundary. The laws of nature (thermodynamics) tell us that mass flows always go in the direction of the more to the less. Heat moves from the hotter to the colder, water flows from the higher to the lower, and unfortunately, pollution also follows the law, but never stops at that imaginary border, and rather continues on to ravage my water, my beaches and my trees down here, or anywhere else. It is anybody«s wild guess when dollars will begin to obey the laws of nature. Andydownsouth __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Access Your PC from Anywhere Check Email Transfer files - Free Download http://us.click.yahoo.com/_WCYWA/3XkDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
