Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
You house a coydog? All the coydogs ive met have been ill tempered untrustworthy beasts. Is it due to upbringing, or lack of that makes them so? from what i understand about animal personalities is they are similar to humans in how they react to their emotional environment. - Original Message - From: Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass Greetings, Actually 20 to 25 is closer to normal for a cat to live except in case of accident. I have a friend whose old cat is now 28, but he is old. Animals that live in the wild and dine on the sick and diseased prey, do sometimes die from what made their prey sick. One of my dogs is half coyote and I almost lost her due to her hunting before I started to feed her raw. Now, she no longer eats what she kills, she brings it to Mom to make sure it is okay before chowing down. On a sustainable farm, trying to establish a sustainable way of life, I feel that the animal feeds should be home grown. I love the change for the better this has caused in my fur family, especially my 10 year old black lab, who is also a rescue. Bright Blessings, Kim At 12:57 PM 12/5/2005, you wrote: snip I've heard similar stories. Large dogs tend to have a longer life span than small cats, do they not? Seventeen years is a LONG time for an outdoor cat to live. Am I understanding correctly, based upon the outline of your argument, that this constitutes evidence that factory food production for our pets is responsible for the decline in pet longevity? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
On the vaccination issue, I think that there are other issues that could also be causing the increase in athsma, etc. When I was little, I ate dirt, played with the dogs and cats and didn't wash my hands, ate wild berries without washing them, ate ants (I don't remember this but my parents say I did). I also got all of the recommended vaccinations back in the 80's. I think that a certain amount of exposure to stuff like this is necessary to exercise the immune system. Nowadays parents treat everything with triclosan containing dishsoap, handsoap, etc., and god forbid their children ever actually eat a vegetable from the garden without steam cleaning it first. It doesn't suprise me that the incidences of immune system related diseases (like athsma and allergies) are up -- we've left nothing for our immune system to do, so it starts attacking harmless pollen. I never developed allergies to pollen till I moved away from the farm, and lived in the city for a few years. I wonder if the high levels of ground level smog there in the winter had anything to do with it? or just not having pollen around all the time? I've also been in third world countries, where half the children die before the age of five, so there is obviously a too dirty of life too. But I don't think living in a completely antiseptic world is any better for our immune systems that developed over thousands of years to deal with dirt and microbes that we used to live in. As for ADHD -- it sounds like the typical difinition of how a 2 year old acts -- most grow out of it. If they are still acting that way at 6, then it is a problem, but I can't see how you can diagnose a 2 year old. Perhaps it's just that most american children are drugged up on white sugar all the time from drinking soda and eating candy? I was never allowed to eat sugar or drink soda growing up, and even back then, I always wondered why other kids were so hyperkenetic. And then there is the increase in man made chemicals -- pesticides, plastics and plasticizers, fragrances, synthetic estrogens, etc -- in the environemnt, that our bodies have not had time to adjust too. I'm not arguing that we're screwing our bodies up with our current lifestyle, but I am not so sure that vaccinations are the sole cause. Zeke On 12/6/05, bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Howdy Marylynn, Marylynn Schmidt wrote: First I need to explain something very important to me. I read a variety of publications from a variety of different lists covering a variety of different fields .. these fields, naturally are the fields that are of interest to me. My own personal opinion is that when I see and hear different subjects concerning animal welfare, animal abuse, animal unwellness, environmental disasters, medical disaster, mercury in vaccinations and the unexplained autism epidemic that is rampant in the western countries, pharma companies trying to pass laws allowing the same drugs, the same vaccinations to be cross prescribed from people to animals .. and quite a few of these publications begin touching on adjacent co-joined subjects I tend to sit up and listen. I read the surveys about disorders showing up in animals who have vaccination compared to disorders not showing up in animals who do not get vaccinated (There was a world wide survey taken by CDC (I think) that took over 5 years and covered most countries) .. I would surely like to see a reference to this. I can't seem to find anything but the beneficial effects of vaccinating animals for the prevention of the spread of disease to humans, ie, rabies. You seem to be taking a very strong anti- vaccination stance. Just curious, do you vaccinate your pets for rabies? and can compare those surveys to surveys about shaken baby syndrome occurring within 3 to 4 weeks after their first vaccinations .. again I would like to see a reference. When I googled the terms I get (among others) http://www.utoronto.ca/virology/mby480/lectures/Scheibner.pdf Opposition to mass childhood vaccination is a world-wide phenomenon, particularly in industrialised countries. Unfounded claims about vaccination are perpetuated by parental lobby groups and individual spokespeople, some of whom have a medical or scientific background. This article focuses on one such spokesperson who has achieved particular notoriety. Dr. Viera Scheibner is a retired micropalaeontologist, without any formal training in health-related sciences, who tours the world claiming that vaccines are ineffective and dangerous and lead to a host of ills such as cancer and asthma. Professionals in public health or the clinical arena are from time to time called upon to publicly respond to her, or similar, claims disseminated during tours of Europe, North America or Australasia and in books and articles. Health professionals have expressed at how such spokespersons misrepresent the evidence on vaccine safety,
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
I assume your talking about the actual fish meat, not some processed catfood called tuna which may or may actually include real fish. I'm not sure where a tuna would get ash, living out in the ocean. Now, tuna does have alot of mercury, due to being high up on the food chain -- look at the FDA recommendations for pregnant women and eating certain fish. I do know that we never fed our cats dry dogfood, because it was alleged to have ash added as a mineral source, which wasn't good for cats' kidneys. On 12/5/05, bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: robert luis rabello wrote: Garth Kim Travis wrote: The question I have is about the theory of tuna and cats. The theory is that there is an excess amount of ash in tuna and that it can cause renal failure in middle aged cats. It is not suppose to make any difference if it was canned or fresh. Have you ever heard of this and is it true? My cats favorite food is tuna, so I am very worried. I feed my cats Science Diet. Before getting the two I now own, my last kitty, a faithful and affectionate companion for her whole life, lived 16 years. She was an outdoor cat who tangled with rattlesnakes, raccoons and poisoned mice! The two I have now are very young, but they thrive on this kind of commercial cat food. at no small cost I might add. But is the extra cost (science diet) justified? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
Hi Kim I do give my cats tuna but I give them such a variety of foods and it's rarely ever just straight. Right now, at least 2 of my clients are avid hunters, and I have a freezer full of venison .. just about all the stew meat and ground meat that has come from at least 4 deer .. I'm not a hunter but I do feed raw so I say thank you. I have a butcher within 8 miles that has begun to use all the trim from all their cuts of meats .. chicken necks, chicken backs and wings (ground bones and all) cryo packaged and sold as pet food .. beef (muscle, and all organs meats available - heart, tongue, liver, kidney), pork, lamb, and once or twice some buffalo and some goat. I buy up packages of whatever he has .. the pork was a great success. A deer processor that I pass almost daily will also sell the ground up trim by the case load (about 5 pounds per package in the case), but he also allows anyone to dig through his bone barrel and take what they want. .. these processors PAY the rendering companies to take away their waste .. that's the trim and the bones. The more we take, the less they pay. I like one of the processors better than another because he cuts most of his bones into smaller pieces and I have given my cats some of the softer rib bones. Most of them (I have 5) chew happily away. I raw feed my dogs and my cats .. also .. ground up green tripe (a bit hard on the human that has to smell it) is considered an almost perfect food for dogs (my cats just sniff it) but a great many people in Europe and it's catching on here. I buy it from a kennel who buys by the truck load .. hundreds of pounds at a time .. and pay something like $1.00 a pound. There is no reason the cats wouldn't eat it .. but cats being cats do make up their own minds about these things. If you stop to think about it, fish would not be a daily diet of most wild cats. Some would probably go their lifetime without ever tasting it. Only those who had territories around rivers and lakes and had learned how to become successful fisher cats (or dogs) Tuna, usually being a deep water fish would probably never been on their menu. Mine have had tuna, salmon, fluke, pike, and trout .. but they have also had pizza, meatloaf, and egg salad .. plus bits out of my can of sardines with olives in olive oil on crackers. I personally like sardines and eat a can a couple times a week. What I don't finish, I mix up on a little plate and pour the remaining oil over the top. The result of this action generally leaves me no room to move my feet. My cats are pretty much free fed .. I'm out of the house so much .. I couldn't tell you who eats what, but they are all good weight, with soft shining fur .. bright eyes with an absolute minimum of fleas and ticks .. which isn't bad for indoor/outdoor cats. A couple of plates are put down twice a day .. when I come back home, if there's any left (it is raw) I throw out. Later in the evening, a second feeding is put down and I generally go to work on the computer so, once again, I don't really see who's eating what. My 2 older ladies of the caninine class are a bit competitive over food, so when their food goes down, I stand in the middle and wait. .. they also have all all the fish mentioned plus the pizza etc .. along with bagels and cream cheese. .. another non-natural diet. Mary Lynn Mary Lynn Schmidt ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Animal Behavior Modification . Behavior Problems . Ordained Minister . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Radionics . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Herbs. . Polarity . Reiki . Spiritual Travel The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ From: Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 12:06:01 -0600 Greetings, Thank you for a wonderful post. I am fortunate that I found a country vet that treats my animals my way, and no vaccinations. [My cat is allergic to them.] My animals eat raw and have recovered from all their diseases and are now healthy. My vet actually learned from this and is recommending raw to patients he think will listen. I daily count my blessings. The question I have is about the theory of tuna and cats. The theory is that there is an excess amount of ash in tuna and that it can cause renal failure in middle aged cats. It is not suppose to make any difference if it was canned or fresh. Have you ever heard of this and is it true? My cats favorite food is tuna, so I am very worried. Bright Blessings, Kim At 09:17 PM 12/3/2005, you wrote: I tend to lay low .. I'll talk theory with anyone but I rarely stand up and state that I DO THAT!! I'm a practitioner of many alternative healing modalities and work mostly on animals .. but the majority of modalities cross species lines easily (herbs can be iffy
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
robert luis rabello wrote: Garth Kim Travis wrote: The question I have is about the theory of tuna and cats. The theory is that there is an excess amount of ash in tuna and that it can cause renal failure in middle aged cats. It is not suppose to make any difference if it was canned or fresh. Have you ever heard of this and is it true? My cats favorite food is tuna, so I am very worried. I feed my cats Science Diet. Before getting the two I now own, my last kitty, a faithful and affectionate companion for her whole life, lived 16 years. She was an outdoor cat who tangled with rattlesnakes, raccoons and poisoned mice! The two I have now are very young, but they thrive on this kind of commercial cat food. at no small cost I might add. But is the extra cost (science diet) justified? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
bob allen wrote: at no small cost I might add. But is the extra cost (science diet) justified? I've never known a cat to live as long as she did (I got her when she was a little over a year old, and she lived with me for 16 years). A 9 kilo bag of Science Diet lasts about a month and a half (feeding two animals) and costs a little over $30 on sale. Maybe I'm just affluent enough that this doesn't seem like any big deal. Perhaps you're right about the extra cost not being justifiable, given the lack of empirical data concerning longevity and health benefits, but I can't see how feeding a cat tuna from a can would be any cheaper. I once knew a woman who fed her two Manx cats nothing but horse meat, and THAT seemed expensive to me! My cats also eat leftover meat from our table. My sweetheart likes fresh lamb (which smells absolutely disgusting to me!) because it was a part of her diet growing up, but nobody else in the family will eat it. The cats get leftover turkey at Thanksgiving and any fish that's been in the refrigerator long enough to turn the nose of a human away. Mostly, though, they eat Science Diet. They're healthy, they're active and they seem content. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
Ok, now I'm having to really dig back into my memory here. There is something like 5 companies that basically control the distribution of food world wide .. each and every single one of those 5 companies have pet food subsidiaries. These companies have contracts to purchase produce directly from the farmers fields before plantings. These companies also have contracts with large rendering plants. A rendering plant in turn has contracts with restaurants, hotel chains, slaughter houses .. bring in something called a down cow .. A downed cow is an animal that has become so sick from all the hormones, antibiotics, food growth additives, milk enhancing drugs that the body has so totally shut down that it falls down and can not get up. If, with a cattle probe up its ass, and perhaps some wenches, the workers at the slaughter house can manage to get this cow on her feet, she can then be slaughtered and her meat can be sold For Human Consumption .. if that cow can not get to her feet, the slaughter house will loose money because that meat is now Unfit For Human Consumption .. I know a few former meat inspectors who no longer will eat meat .. Everything dead can be sold .. dead animals from the zoo, city pound, road kill, unusable parts of any slaughtered animal .. and downed cow. Piles of dead animals are brought to the plant and dumped .. big tractors with plows are then used to shovel these piles into the pot. Waste inside the dead animal is NOT REMOVED .. that would require time and would also be less to sell. Rendering places whole animals and animal parts into a big grinding machine that actually grinds until it's liquid .. a big pile of brown stinking liquid that smells for miles and miles around a rendering plant. Companies buy this stinking liquid .. they make soap (look at those cute little wrapped bars of soap in the bathroom the next time you stay in a hotel), fertilizer, animal feed ..PET FOOD .. personal cosmetic products. When a food company buys up the different products, that can take .. say corn and start with frozen, fresh corn .. then drop down to canned corn .. then drop down to creamed corn .. then drop down to frozen pot pies .. corn chowder soap .. then drop down .. until you have no useable parts left .. so we can now make pet food. If a pet food states pure beef and organic vegetables .. it would be impossible to determine if it were pure beef .. the rendering run may have been 1000 head of cows .. you would have the whole body with or without some hides, hooves, destroyed kidney and livers, cancerous tissue, sores .. it all goes into the same pot. .. and the organic vegetables can be what has been swept up from the floor, and what ever has been left over that can not be used in any better product. There are some reasonable good companies that take pride in what they sell. These are small companies doing generally a comparatively small amount of business. If they get too profitable then there is generally a buy out by one of the big 5. White Wave (I think that's the name) was an extremely successful producer of Soy Milk. They controlled something like 70% of the Soy Milk market. A law suit was filed by the Dairy Association against the use of the word milk .. which they lost because it just got so boggled down .. Coconut Milk, Mother's milk, Milk and Honey .. historically, the word milk had been around much too long for the Dairy Industry to claim it .. but they tried at a substantial cost to both themselves and to White Wave, leaving White Wave financially wobbling. When they lost against White Wave .. they bought the company .. now the Dairy Association controls the Dairy industry and a large portion of the Soy Milk industry. The reason you see Science Diet sold in so many Veterinarian offices is because Science Diet is the one who actually provides the money to the vet school to have a course of animal nutrition. The text, the books, instructions and instructors are provided (I believe) to ALL the Veterinarian Schools .. plus grants and scholarships for Vets by Science Diet The institutes of higher learning have something like a 5 or 10 hour (volunteer) course on animal nutrition. .. I'd rather give them table scraps .. or my left over pizza. The pet food industry has been around for less than 100 years. Our dogs and cats have been around for millions of years. When I was born, my grandfather had a hunting dog that was about three or four years old .. that dog died when I was 15 .. and unless through accident .. most of the dogs live to quite an advanced age. Today 7 and 10 is considered time to start watching for cancer and/or liver failure to begin and it's so unusual to hear of a big dog living to 12 and 14 Village dogs in Africa .. once again, unless through an accident .. live longer than our American pampered pets. Mary Lynn Mary Lynn Schmidt ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Animal Behavior Modification .
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
Uuugh. Gotta love rendering plants There's one about 50 miles NE of where I live. Usually the wind blows the other way, but when it turns around, it stinks... When we raised rabbits, we would leave the extra parts up on the hillside after butchering them, and they'd be gone by the next day. The ravens would usually be there waiting -- they could see the butchering operation, and they're pretty smart birds to learn the pattern. Generally, civilized society recoils at taking old animal parts and just dumping them on the ground for the ravens to clean up, but compared to the rendering plant story, I think it's a whole lot less disturbing. On 12/5/05, Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, now I'm having to really dig back into my memory here. There is something like 5 companies that basically control the distribution of food world wide .. each and every single one of those 5 companies have pet food subsidiaries. These companies have contracts to purchase produce directly from the farmers fields before plantings. These companies also have contracts with large rendering plants. A rendering plant in turn has contracts with restaurants, hotel chains, slaughter houses .. bring in something called a down cow .. A downed cow is an animal that has become so sick from all the hormones, antibiotics, food growth additives, milk enhancing drugs that the body has so totally shut down that it falls down and can not get up. If, with a cattle probe up its ass, and perhaps some wenches, the workers at the slaughter house can manage to get this cow on her feet, she can then be slaughtered and her meat can be sold For Human Consumption .. if that cow can not get to her feet, the slaughter house will loose money because that meat is now Unfit For Human Consumption .. I know a few former meat inspectors who no longer will eat meat .. Everything dead can be sold .. dead animals from the zoo, city pound, road kill, unusable parts of any slaughtered animal .. and downed cow. Piles of dead animals are brought to the plant and dumped .. big tractors with plows are then used to shovel these piles into the pot. Waste inside the dead animal is NOT REMOVED .. that would require time and would also be less to sell. Rendering places whole animals and animal parts into a big grinding machine that actually grinds until it's liquid .. a big pile of brown stinking liquid that smells for miles and miles around a rendering plant. Companies buy this stinking liquid .. they make soap (look at those cute little wrapped bars of soap in the bathroom the next time you stay in a hotel), fertilizer, animal feed ..PET FOOD .. personal cosmetic products. When a food company buys up the different products, that can take .. say corn and start with frozen, fresh corn .. then drop down to canned corn .. then drop down to creamed corn .. then drop down to frozen pot pies .. corn chowder soap .. then drop down .. until you have no useable parts left .. so we can now make pet food. If a pet food states pure beef and organic vegetables .. it would be impossible to determine if it were pure beef .. the rendering run may have been 1000 head of cows .. you would have the whole body with or without some hides, hooves, destroyed kidney and livers, cancerous tissue, sores .. it all goes into the same pot. .. and the organic vegetables can be what has been swept up from the floor, and what ever has been left over that can not be used in any better product. There are some reasonable good companies that take pride in what they sell. These are small companies doing generally a comparatively small amount of business. If they get too profitable then there is generally a buy out by one of the big 5. White Wave (I think that's the name) was an extremely successful producer of Soy Milk. They controlled something like 70% of the Soy Milk market. A law suit was filed by the Dairy Association against the use of the word milk .. which they lost because it just got so boggled down .. Coconut Milk, Mother's milk, Milk and Honey .. historically, the word milk had been around much too long for the Dairy Industry to claim it .. but they tried at a substantial cost to both themselves and to White Wave, leaving White Wave financially wobbling. When they lost against White Wave .. they bought the company .. now the Dairy Association controls the Dairy industry and a large portion of the Soy Milk industry. The reason you see Science Diet sold in so many Veterinarian offices is because Science Diet is the one who actually provides the money to the vet school to have a course of animal nutrition. The text, the books, instructions and instructors are provided (I believe) to ALL the Veterinarian Schools .. plus grants and scholarships for Vets by Science Diet The institutes of higher learning have something like a 5 or 10 hour (volunteer) course on animal nutrition. .. I'd rather give
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
Marylynn Schmidt wrote: big snip of relevant background content Rendering places whole animals and animal parts into a big grinding machine that actually grinds until it's liquid .. a big pile of brown stinking liquid that smells for miles and miles around a rendering plant. Companies buy this stinking liquid .. they make soap (look at those cute little wrapped bars of soap in the bathroom the next time you stay in a hotel), fertilizer, animal feed ..PET FOOD .. personal cosmetic products. Most of us here oppose the factory food production paradigm. I hadn't thought of how this applies to pet food and appreciate the insight you've brought into this discussion. If a pet food states pure beef and organic vegetables .. it would be impossible to determine if it were pure beef .. the rendering run may have been 1000 head of cows .. you would have the whole body with or without some hides, hooves, destroyed kidney and livers, cancerous tissue, sores .. it all goes into the same pot. In the wild, most herd ungulates can easily outrun their predators. Occasionally, chance and circumstance will lead to a healthy adult specimen being hunted down, but more often, it's the sickly, the weak, the old and the young who succumb to predation. Old and weak animals culled from the herd in this manner keeps the population in check and often prevents mass starvation during the winter months when food is scarce. In the wild, therefore, sickly and weak animals provide food for predators. The relative shortness of a prey animal's intestine serves to limit exposure to biomagnified toxins that occur naturally in the environment. (I'm not referring to the industrial nasties that WE put into the ecosystem.) A predator eats and eliminates, allowing detritus organisms to break down problematic disease and toxin residues, as they have done for however many billion years they've been on the earth. So, to play devil's advocate (or maybe God's advocate, depending on your point of view) for a moment: What would be the problem with a predatory animal that happens to be my pet eating the rendered residue of a sickly bovine, if in the wild, that same creature (that is, the ungulate) would most likely succumb to predation anyway? snip background information concerning corporate and industry advocacy group control over food production The reason you see Science Diet sold in so many Veterinarian offices is because Science Diet is the one who actually provides the money to the vet school to have a course of animal nutrition. We face a related problem in the pharmaceutical industry, where education on treatment regimens are often provided by companies who sell therapeutic drugs. I've never bought Science Diet at a vet. The pet food industry has been around for less than 100 years. Our dogs and cats have been around for millions of years. And that's part of my point. During that time, dogs and cats have been, by design and necessity, less picky about what they eat than we tend to be. When I was born, my grandfather had a hunting dog that was about three or four years old .. that dog died when I was 15 .. and unless through accident .. most of the dogs live to quite an advanced age. I've heard similar stories. Large dogs tend to have a longer life span than small cats, do they not? Seventeen years is a LONG time for an outdoor cat to live. Today 7 and 10 is considered time to start watching for cancer and/or liver failure to begin and it's so unusual to hear of a big dog living to 12 and 14 Am I understanding correctly, based upon the outline of your argument, that this constitutes evidence that factory food production for our pets is responsible for the decline in pet longevity? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
Greetings, I am speaking of the actual fish meat, but when questions the girl who lost her cat was using a tuna cat food, although she swears it looked and tasted just like a can of fish. My cat also eats raw rabbit, chicken and emu, but he does prefer fish. Now I am able to get sardines, in spring water with no smoking, I do give him those. I buy Mackerel for the dogs, but he doesn't like it. Sir Kitty Kitty is 13, a rescue at age 2 whom was so badly starved that at first I thought he was a pregnant female, the bloat was so bad. We have had him on distilled water for over 10 years now since our well has a high salt content. I would love him to live till at least 20. Bright Blessings, Kim At 10:45 AM 12/5/2005, you wrote: I assume your talking about the actual fish meat, not some processed catfood called tuna which may or may actually include real fish. I'm not sure where a tuna would get ash, living out in the ocean. Now, tuna does have alot of mercury, due to being high up on the food chain -- look at the FDA recommendations for pregnant women and eating certain fish. I do know that we never fed our cats dry dogfood, because it was alleged to have ash added as a mineral source, which wasn't good for cats' kidneys. On 12/5/05, bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: robert luis rabello wrote: Garth Kim Travis wrote: The question I have is about the theory of tuna and cats. The theory is that there is an excess amount of ash in tuna and that it can cause renal failure in middle aged cats. It is not suppose to make any difference if it was canned or fresh. Have you ever heard of this and is it true? My cats favorite food is tuna, so I am very worried. I feed my cats Science Diet. Before getting the two I now own, my last kitty, a faithful and affectionate companion for her whole life, lived 16 years. She was an outdoor cat who tangled with rattlesnakes, raccoons and poisoned mice! The two I have now are very young, but they thrive on this kind of commercial cat food. at no small cost I might add. But is the extra cost (science diet) justified? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
Thanks Mary Lyn, I too feed a variety, but mine comes from whatever we are butchering on the farm. Sir Kitty Kitty is a picky eater. He will not eat pork, goat, or catfish. No offal, no matter what animal it came from. Eggs only with cottage cheese, etc. However, I have found that if I insist he eat something, like store bought ground beef, he immediately brings it back up. The starvation did take its toll and he is missing some teeth, from nutritional deprevations. Thank you for making me feel better, I will continue to give him the occasional can of tuna, just not too much. Bright Blessings, Kim At 10:48 AM 12/5/2005, you wrote: Hi Kim I do give my cats tuna but I give them such a variety of foods and it's rarely ever just straight. Right now, at least 2 of my clients are avid hunters, and I have a freezer full of venison .. just about all the stew meat and ground meat that has come from at least 4 deer .. I'm not a hunter but I do feed raw so I say thank you. I have a butcher within 8 miles that has begun to use all the trim from all their cuts of meats .. chicken necks, chicken backs and wings (ground bones and all) cryo packaged and sold as pet food .. beef (muscle, and all organs meats available - heart, tongue, liver, kidney), pork, lamb, and once or twice some buffalo and some goat. I buy up packages of whatever he has .. the pork was a great success. A deer processor that I pass almost daily will also sell the ground up trim by the case load (about 5 pounds per package in the case), but he also allows anyone to dig through his bone barrel and take what they want. .. these processors PAY the rendering companies to take away their waste .. that's the trim and the bones. The more we take, the less they pay. I like one of the processors better than another because he cuts most of his bones into smaller pieces and I have given my cats some of the softer rib bones. Most of them (I have 5) chew happily away. I raw feed my dogs and my cats .. also .. ground up green tripe (a bit hard on the human that has to smell it) is considered an almost perfect food for dogs (my cats just sniff it) but a great many people in Europe and it's catching on here. I buy it from a kennel who buys by the truck load .. hundreds of pounds at a time .. and pay something like $1.00 a pound. There is no reason the cats wouldn't eat it .. but cats being cats do make up their own minds about these things. If you stop to think about it, fish would not be a daily diet of most wild cats. Some would probably go their lifetime without ever tasting it. Only those who had territories around rivers and lakes and had learned how to become successful fisher cats (or dogs) Tuna, usually being a deep water fish would probably never been on their menu. Mine have had tuna, salmon, fluke, pike, and trout .. but they have also had pizza, meatloaf, and egg salad .. plus bits out of my can of sardines with olives in olive oil on crackers. I personally like sardines and eat a can a couple times a week. What I don't finish, I mix up on a little plate and pour the remaining oil over the top. The result of this action generally leaves me no room to move my feet. My cats are pretty much free fed .. I'm out of the house so much .. I couldn't tell you who eats what, but they are all good weight, with soft shining fur .. bright eyes with an absolute minimum of fleas and ticks .. which isn't bad for indoor/outdoor cats. A couple of plates are put down twice a day .. when I come back home, if there's any left (it is raw) I throw out. Later in the evening, a second feeding is put down and I generally go to work on the computer so, once again, I don't really see who's eating what. My 2 older ladies of the caninine class are a bit competitive over food, so when their food goes down, I stand in the middle and wait. .. they also have all all the fish mentioned plus the pizza etc .. along with bagels and cream cheese. .. another non-natural diet. Mary Lynn Mary Lynn Schmidt ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Animal Behavior Modification . Behavior Problems . Ordained Minister . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Radionics . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Herbs. . Polarity . Reiki . Spiritual Travel The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ From: Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 12:06:01 -0600 Greetings, Thank you for a wonderful post. I am fortunate that I found a country vet that treats my animals my way, and no vaccinations. [My cat is allergic to them.] My animals eat raw and have recovered from all their diseases and are now healthy. My vet actually learned from this and is recommending raw to patients he think will listen. I daily count my blessings. The question I have is about the theory of tuna
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 10:57:35 -0800 Marylynn Schmidt wrote: So, to play devil's advocate (or maybe God's advocate, depending on your point of view) for a moment: What would be the problem with a predatory animal that happens to be my pet eating the rendered residue of a sickly bovine, if in the wild, that same creature (that is, the ungulate) would most likely succumb to predation anyway? Answers in caps because they stand out .. I'm not yelling. A PREY ANIMAL THAT IS KILLED BY A PREDATOR WOULD NOT NECESSARILY BE A SICK ANIMAL .. IT COULD BE YOUNG .. IT COULD BE OLD .. IT COULD BE INJURED. IF, ON OCCASION EATING A SICK ANIMAL, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE WOULD HAVE A GREAT LASTING EFFECT IF NON-SICK ANIMALS (young, old, injured) WERE ALSO ON THE MENU. HOW MANY MACDONALDS HAMBURGERS HAS THE AVERAGE CHILD EATEN IN A WEEK .. IN 2 WEEKS? BUT YES, I DO BELIEVE THAT I HAVE READ (CAN'T SWEAR TO IT) ABOUT SOME HUNTERS COMING ACROSS COYOTES THAT APPEARED TO HAVE THAT WOBBLING DISEASE SOME DEER AND ELK HAVE DEVELOPED (LIKE MAD COW) IN THE GENERAL AREA WHERE THERE WAS THE ORIGINAL OUTBREAK. THOSE COYOTES WERE KILLED .. AS MAN TENDS TO DO WITH COYOTES .. SO THAT ANSWER WILL REMAIN UNCLEAR AT THIS TIME. I DO KNOW THAT 2 OR 3 HUNTERS OR MEMBERS OF THEIR FAMILIES HAVE COME DOWN WITH .. WHAT IS CONSIDERED .. SIMILAR .. BUT THERE'S NOT MUCH PUBLICITY AROUND IT BECAUSE IT MAY HARM THE TOURIST TRADE. BUT THAT WOULD HAVE CORRECTED ITSELF IF MAN HADN'T GOTTEN INTO THE MIX AND BEGUN SHIPPING ANIMALS ACROSS STATE LINES INTO DIFFERENT ENCLOSED HUNTING PARKS FOR THE PLEASURE AND EXCITEMENT OF THOSE WHO COULD PAY GREAT FEES FOR THE MOMENT OF THE KILL... ALL OUTBREAKS IN OTHER STATES HAVE HAPPENED WITHIN A FEW MILES OF A HUNTING ENCLOSURE. NOW THAT DIS-ORDER IS IN (SOMETHING LIKE) 14 STATES ONE OF THE ORIGINAL RAW FOOD ADVOCATES SUGGESTED BUYING A SIDE OF BEEF AND BURYING IT IN THE YARD FOR A WEEK .. DIGGING IT UP AND FEEDING IT TO THE DOGS. ROTTING STILL DOESN'T EQUATE TO SICK OUR ANIMALS (PAMPERED PET THEY MAY BE) ARE STILL OPPORTUNISTS WHEN IT COMES TO GRABBING SOMETHING UGLY, UNKNOWABLE, AND STINKY OFF THE GROUND AND EATING IT. (as i stand jumping around, wringing my hands, yelling DROP IT, DROP IT .. and totally ignored) BUT THERE IS STILL A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND SICK. OUR SYSTEMS CAN TAKE A HUGH AMOUNT OF ABUSE BEFORE THE BODY GIVES UP THE GHOST .. IN THE LATE 70'S OR EARLY 80'S SOMETHING LIKE 70% OF ALL CALVES LIVER WAS UNFIT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. THE CHEMICALS THAT WERE BEING POURED INTO THE BODY'S OF THE MOTHERS (AND THE MOTHERS BEFORE THEM) WAS SO OVERWHELMING THAT THE BABIES INSIDE THE MOTHERS WERE BORN WITH FAIRLY ADVANCED DESTRUCTION OF THEIR LIVERS .. AND CHEMISTRY HAS BEEN MARCHING STEADILY ON EVER SINCE. IN THE WILD, A PREDATOR WILL EAT ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING .. BUT IS NEVER REGULATED TO JUST ONE THING .. A BOWL OF KIBBLE. I've heard similar stories. Large dogs tend to have a longer life span than small cats, do they not? Seventeen years is a LONG time for an outdoor cat to live. SMALL DOGS TEND TO HAVE A LONER LIFE SPAN THAN LARGE DOGS .. BECAUSE I HAVE MID TO LARGER DOGS, MINE TEND TO GO 10 TO 14 .. I'VE KNOWN CATS TO GO TO 21 AND 22 .. I'VE HAD CATS THAT GO TO 18 AND 19. I HAVE LONGEVITY ON BOTH SIDES .. GRANDPARENTS DIED IN THEIR LATE 90'S .. MY PARENTS DIED IN THEIR EARLY 80S (ALONG WITH THEIR SIBLINGS) .. MY OLDER SISTER ISN'T DOING SO WELL, MY YOUNGER SISTER IS ON A LOT OF MEDICATION, MY BROTHER IS ON EVEN MORE MEDICATION .. AND WE'RE NOW TALKING 50S AND 60S. I IGNORE ANY PAINS BECAUSE I WON'T TAKE THAT STUFF .. AND I SEE MY HERBALISTS AT LEAST TWICE A YEAR. AT PRESENT, MY OLDEST CAT IS 11 .. THE NEXT IS ABOUT 6 .. TWO UNKNOWN, AND 1 (MY BB O'BRIAN -IS BOX BOY -FOUND STUFFED IN A BOX - SO I GAVE HIM A LAST NAME) I THINK WE TEND TO GET THEM AROUND THE SAME TIME, AND BEGIN TO LOOSE THEM THE SAME WAY. MINE ARE INDOOR/OUTDOOR CATS AND WHILE I HAVE HAD A FEW HIT BY CARS AND/OR DISAPPEAR, THEY CAN COME IN UNDER THE CRAWL SPACE, WALK ALONG A HEATING PIPE AND ENTER THE BASEMENT .. WALK UP THE STEPS AND COME INTO THE HOUSE. I HAVE, ON OCCASION FOUND A FEW UNKNOWN CATS IN MY HOUSE WHICH ALWAYS SURPRISES ME BECAUSE I STILL HAVE 2 DOGS. .. BUT THEN WITH 5 CATS, I STILL HAVE TO PUT OUT MOUSE TRAPS. Am I understanding correctly, based upon the outline of your argument, that this constitutes evidence that factory food production for our pets is responsible for the decline in pet longevity? NO .. SORRY, ONCE AGAIN, I'M HAVING TO DEPEND ON MEMORY OF THINGS I HAVE READ SOMETIMES IN THE PAST. IN AND AROUND THE 70'S OR 80'S SOME EXPERT ON SOMETHING WROTE THAT THE (HUMAN) LONGEVITY WOULD BEGIN TO DROP AFTER THE DEATHS OF THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE BORN PRIOR TO THE 1930(s) .. THE REASON GIVEN FOR THIS PREDICTION WAS THAT FARMERS NO LONGER
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
Greetings, Actually 20 to 25 is closer to normal for a cat to live except in case of accident. I have a friend whose old cat is now 28, but he is old. Animals that live in the wild and dine on the sick and diseased prey, do sometimes die from what made their prey sick. One of my dogs is half coyote and I almost lost her due to her hunting before I started to feed her raw. Now, she no longer eats what she kills, she brings it to Mom to make sure it is okay before chowing down. On a sustainable farm, trying to establish a sustainable way of life, I feel that the animal feeds should be home grown. I love the change for the better this has caused in my fur family, especially my 10 year old black lab, who is also a rescue. Bright Blessings, Kim At 12:57 PM 12/5/2005, you wrote: snip I've heard similar stories. Large dogs tend to have a longer life span than small cats, do they not? Seventeen years is a LONG time for an outdoor cat to live. Am I understanding correctly, based upon the outline of your argument, that this constitutes evidence that factory food production for our pets is responsible for the decline in pet longevity? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
Marylynn Schmidt wrote: A PREY ANIMAL THAT IS KILLED BY A PREDATOR WOULD NOT NECESSARILY BE A SICK ANIMAL .. IT COULD BE YOUNG .. IT COULD BE OLD .. IT COULD BE INJURED. IF, ON OCCASION EATING A SICK ANIMAL, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE WOULD HAVE A GREAT LASTING EFFECT IF NON-SICK ANIMALS (young, old, injured) WERE ALSO ON THE MENU. Is it not true, however, that animal remains in a rendering plant would also contain the offal from healthy specimens slaughtered for human consumption? HOW MANY MACDONALDS HAMBURGERS HAS THE AVERAGE CHILD EATEN IN A WEEK .. IN 2 WEEKS? I haven't had a McDonald's hamburger since I was about 7. (That was a VERY long time ago!) My children have NEVER eaten them. I'm trying to understand your point, Mary Lynn. English is not my first language and I might be a little bit dense, but I'm not following what McDonald's hamburgers have to do with commercial cat food. BUT YES, I DO BELIEVE THAT I HAVE READ (CAN'T SWEAR TO IT) ABOUT SOME HUNTERS COMING ACROSS COYOTES THAT APPEARED TO HAVE THAT WOBBLING DISEASE SOME DEER AND ELK HAVE DEVELOPED (LIKE MAD COW) IN THE GENERAL AREA WHERE THERE WAS THE ORIGINAL OUTBREAK. But is that observation credible? Is there a causal link between BSE, wild ungulate infestation and a corresponding outbreak among their predators? I'm not suggesting this is impossible, but what evidence, aside from the anecdote you underscore, supports that view? THOSE COYOTES WERE KILLED .. AS MAN TENDS TO DO WITH COYOTES .. SO THAT ANSWER WILL REMAIN UNCLEAR AT THIS TIME. Indeed. Even if the coyotes were subsequently autopsied, would the results of that autopsy be made available to the public? Unlikely, I think! I DO KNOW THAT 2 OR 3 HUNTERS OR MEMBERS OF THEIR FAMILIES HAVE COME DOWN WITH .. WHAT IS CONSIDERED .. SIMILAR .. BUT THERE'S NOT MUCH PUBLICITY AROUND IT BECAUSE IT MAY HARM THE TOURIST TRADE. The BSE / KJD controversy in England was the first, if I recall correctly, to suggest a link between BSE and KJD. In those cases, eating nervous tissue in sausage has been the suspected mechanism by which the disease crossed the species barrier. BUT THAT WOULD HAVE CORRECTED ITSELF IF MAN HADN'T GOTTEN INTO THE MIX AND BEGUN SHIPPING ANIMALS ACROSS STATE LINES INTO DIFFERENT ENCLOSED HUNTING PARKS FOR THE PLEASURE AND EXCITEMENT OF THOSE WHO COULD PAY GREAT FEES FOR THE MOMENT OF THE KILL... We do MANY things with unintended consequences. ALL OUTBREAKS IN OTHER STATES HAVE HAPPENED WITHIN A FEW MILES OF A HUNTING ENCLOSURE. Can you please elaborate on this? Are you suggesting a connection between BSE, a similar condition in wild ungulates, and subsequent KJD development in human hunters? I have friends who hunt, but I've heard NOTHING about this. ROTTING STILL DOESN'T EQUATE TO SICK No. Of course not. For dogs, in particular, rotting meat seems preferable! OUR ANIMALS (PAMPERED PET THEY MAY BE) ARE STILL OPPORTUNISTS WHEN IT COMES TO GRABBING SOMETHING UGLY, UNKNOWABLE, AND STINKY OFF THE GROUND AND EATING IT. (as i stand jumping around, wringing my hands, yelling DROP IT, DROP IT .. and totally ignored) BUT THERE IS STILL A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND SICK. However, predators DO take down sick members of a herd. OUR SYSTEMS CAN TAKE A HUGH AMOUNT OF ABUSE BEFORE THE BODY GIVES UP THE GHOST .. IN THE LATE 70'S OR EARLY 80'S SOMETHING LIKE 70% OF ALL CALVES LIVER WAS UNFIT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. THE CHEMICALS THAT WERE BEING POURED INTO THE BODY'S OF THE MOTHERS (AND THE MOTHERS BEFORE THEM) WAS SO OVERWHELMING THAT THE BABIES INSIDE THE MOTHERS WERE BORN WITH FAIRLY ADVANCED DESTRUCTION OF THEIR LIVERS .. AND CHEMISTRY HAS BEEN MARCHING STEADILY ON EVER SINCE. IN THE WILD, A PREDATOR WILL EAT ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING .. BUT IS NEVER REGULATED TO JUST ONE THING .. A BOWL OF KIBBLE. Yet you seem to suggest that the kibble I'm feeding my cats comes primarily from diseased animals. I would like to see some empirical evidence that this is so. SMALL DOGS TEND TO HAVE A LONER LIFE SPAN THAN LARGE DOGS .. BECAUSE I HAVE MID TO LARGER DOGS, MINE TEND TO GO 10 TO 14 .. I'VE KNOWN CATS TO GO TO 21 AND 22 .. I'VE HAD CATS THAT GO TO 18 AND 19. I've benefited from many feline relationships in my life. None of these faithful and beautiful creatures lived as long as the last one I owned, due to accidents or human cruelty. (One of them was actually shot!) My last cat developed a thyroid condition that resulted from scar tissue building up after a tussle with a raccoon. She was suffering, so I had her euthanized last year. From what I've read, the ages you quote above seem to be the exception, rather than the rule. For instance, according to messybeast.com: In countries with good veterinary care, the average life-span
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
First I need to explain something very important to me. I read a variety of publications from a variety of different lists covering a variety of different fields .. these fields, naturally are the fields that are of interest to me. My own personal opinion is that when I see and hear different subjects concerning animal welfare, animal abuse, animal unwellness, environmental disasters, medical disaster, mercury in vaccinations and the unexplained autism epidemic that is rampant in the western countries, pharma companies trying to pass laws allowing the same drugs, the same vaccinations to be cross prescribed from people to animals .. and quite a few of these publications begin touching on adjacent co-joined subjects I tend to sit up and listen. I read the surveys about disorders showing up in animals who have vaccination compared to disorders not showing up in animals who do not get vaccinated (There was a world wide survey taken by CDC (I think) that took over 5 years and covered most countries) .. and can compare those surveys to surveys about shaken baby syndrome occurring within 3 to 4 weeks after their first vaccinations .. about children developing normally until given a series of vaccinations around 18 months and then reversing in what they had gained until somewhere around 2 to 3 years old parents are faced to a diagnosis of autism I feel I have the ability to begin to connect the points. When I see, what I perceive as a connection .. I mentally take note of it and begin to formulate a personal decision to go there .. or not go there. There has never been a moment of time in my life that I've ever felt the overpowering need to convince anyone to believe anything because I tend to believe it. If you want to feed Science Diet please feel free to do so .. but in my own personal household that's not on the menu .. and bagel and cream cheese sometimes is. Because of my active mailbox and duties calling me elsewhere, this is my last response on this subject. If you wish further information on longevity, environmental pollution, 29 year olds with Lou Garig (sp?) Disease dying in the military after the anthrax vaccination .. the one they have stockpiled for the general population .. or the percentage of downed cows vs scrap parts of healthy cows per batch of rendered cycle please check google. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: A PREY ANIMAL THAT IS KILLED BY A PREDATOR WOULD NOT NECESSARILY BE A SICK ANIMAL .. IT COULD BE YOUNG .. IT COULD BE OLD .. IT COULD BE INJURED. IF, ON OCCASION EATING A SICK ANIMAL, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE WOULD HAVE A GREAT LASTING EFFECT IF NON-SICK ANIMALS (young, old, injured) WERE ALSO ON THE MENU. Is it not true, however, that animal remains in a rendering plant would also contain the offal from healthy specimens slaughtered for human consumption? and also companion animals that have been killed by lethal injection in county animal shelters with poisons .. it's all in the big mix .. ground up with hugh grinders liquefying it using pressure and high heat .. and it is known that cooking of a live food kills off some nutrients .. the longer you cook and the higher the heat, the more nutrients are killed off .. leaving whatever was good to begin with now dead. These are hugh grinders that produce high heat that crush bones, hooves, horns, teeth into liquid. So now you have poisoned, sick, medicated mixed in with some trim and the stomach, digestive tract, bowels and bones of ok to basically healthy animal (remembering that the majority of the good animals have been taken elsewhere to be processed into Human Consumption meat .. these grades go from the high priced cuts down to stew meat .. down to .. what we call Sam's hamburgers .. which is our slang for the cheapest level of ground meat that can still be sold to humans. I have absolutely NO Idea what that percentage would be. In guessing I'd think that the downers would outnumber the healthy by a fairly large percentage because good meat can be sold at a higher price so it would never reach the rendering plant. It is also only my understanding that those people who are actually running the day to day operations of the rendering plant could not give you an absolute percentage themselves. HOW MANY MACDONALD'S HAMBURGERS HAS THE AVERAGE CHILD EATEN IN A WEEK .. IN 2 WEEKS? I haven't had a McDonald's hamburger since I was about 7. (That was a VERY long time ago!) My children have NEVER eaten them. I'm trying to understand your point, Mary Lynn. English is not my first language and I might be a little bit dense, but I'm not following what McDonald's hamburgers have to do with commercial cat food. I apologize, I did not realize English was a second language. It sounds pretty good to me. McDonald's is not considered a source of healthy nutritious food. What I meant was that eating poorly will not kill you quickly. You can
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
- Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 18:56 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass Marylynn Schmidt wrote: HOW MANY MACDONALDS HAMBURGERS HAS THE AVERAGE CHILD EATEN IN A WEEK .. IN 2 WEEKS? I haven't had a McDonald's hamburger since I was about 7. (That was a VERY long time ago!) My children have NEVER eaten them. I'm trying to understand your point, Mary Lynn. English is not my first language and I might be a little bit dense, but I'm not following what McDonald's hamburgers have to do with commercial cat food. That's ok, Robert, English ( well American English ) is my first language, and I don't understand either. Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
Garth Kim Travis wrote: The question I have is about the theory of tuna and cats. The theory is that there is an excess amount of ash in tuna and that it can cause renal failure in middle aged cats. It is not suppose to make any difference if it was canned or fresh. Have you ever heard of this and is it true? My cats favorite food is tuna, so I am very worried. I feed my cats Science Diet. Before getting the two I now own, my last kitty, a faithful and affectionate companion for her whole life, lived 16 years. She was an outdoor cat who tangled with rattlesnakes, raccoons and poisoned mice! The two I have now are very young, but they thrive on this kind of commercial cat food. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
