Re: [biofuel] Ice Age bolthole

2004-06-14 Thread Keith Addison
 like a scuba mouthpiece (with
priming button)  -to a little 3/8ths tube loctited into the carby in place
of the main jet, and a hollow idle needle, the kit cost about $300 and I
never would have paid that much if I had known how simple it was.
That was it, except for a little tapered bolt with a lock nut in a brass
block with  hose spuds that could restrict flow to the main jet, and that
was set up for me by the local gas guy who put his meter against the exhaust
and set it so the CO disappeared.  That engine would have had about 5000
hours of hard work on it over 15 years and has never needed to be touched,
the oil was always fairly clean even being slack with oil changes, over 100
hours apart, no filter, still going strong.  Try that with your diesels.

Ethanol would have been better. LPG-CNG etc is often touted as a 
clean solution, even a green solution, but it's just greenwash. 
One study found that using natural gas instead of diesel in heavy 
duty vehicles results in a 5% to 10% increase in greenhouse gas 
emissions. Other studies have found CNG emits more CO2, more GGs, and 
more ultra-fine PM than clean-diesel, and that it's less efficient, 
less economical, more expensive and less safe. A 2002 study by the 
Southwest Research Institute concludes that CNG school bus emitted 
greater levels of air pollutants than clean diesel school buses. 
Other studies have had different findings, mainly on the health 
issues. I'd say the court's still out. At any rate, it's not as 
cut-and-dried a case as you and others would like it to be.

Best

Keith



Regards

From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ice Age bolthole


  George Smiley wrote:
 
  Trouble with methane - it's the lightest of all those 'anes' and the
amount
  you can put in a car tire will get you about as far as you walked with
the
  tire.  Saw a picture of them cooking with biogas in Vietnam - stored in a
  huge clear plastic bag suspended over the range and the gas came out when
  they pulled a rope that squeezed the bag.  If it ever lit up it would all
be
  gone before anybody could grab an extinguisher.
 
  That's not how it's usually done with the polyethylene bag digesters.
 
 
http://www.ias.unu.edu/proceedings/icibs/ibs/info/ecuador/install-polydig.htm
  How to install a polyethylene biogas plant
 
  http://www.fao.org/WAICENT/FAOINFO/AGRICULT/AGA/AGAP/FRG/Recycle/biodi
  g/manual.htm
  Biodigester installation manual
 
  http://www.husdyr.kvl.dk/htm/php/tune96/13An.htm
  The Introduction of Low-Cost Polyethylene Tube Biodigesters on
  Small-Scale Farms in Vietnam
 
  Better to have a weight on
  a diaphragm in the top of your digester kind of like the big natural gas
  storage tanks they have all over London that slide up and down a tower
like
  a caisson into a water tank
 
  Different system. As ever, there's probably no best
  one-size-fits-all solution, but the polytubes have many advantages,
  one of them being that they float: Among the polyethylene digesters
  installed, 5% of them were floated in ponds adding an innovative
  feature to the development. According to Khoi et al (1989), in the
  Mekong Delta where most land is low, the application of concrete
  digesters was very difficult especially when the water level went up.
  The floating digesters solved this problem and as they also required
  little space they were very well suited for low-lying areas. More
  than 90% of the plants were installed in rural areas indicating the
  good fit of the technology under these conditions.
 
  But it is purely a stationary fuel.
 
  I don't think so. That might be its most efficient use, but it
  certainly can be used as a transport fuel. For instance:
 
  Methane, the lightest organic gas, has two fundamental drawbacks to
  its use in heat engines: it has a relatively low fuel value (Table
  7), and it takes nearly 5,000 psi to liquefy it for easy storage.
  (87.7 ft3 methane gas = 1 gallon of liquid methane or 1 ft3 methane
  gas = 9 tablespoons liquid methane.) So a great deal of storage is
  required of methane for a given amount of work. For comparison,
  propane liquefies around 250 psi. Consider the following example
  where methane is compressed to just 1,000 psi in a small bottle and
  used to power a rototiller of 6 brake horsepower:
 
  Example [see website for data]
 
  At 25% compressor efficiency it would take 0.52 hp-hr to compress
  the gas (1320 BTU). In other words, it would take 1320 BTU to
  compress 25,300 BTU worth of gas that provides 6,350 BTU worth of
  work. Clearly the system is not very efficient in the sense that
  21% of the resulting work energy is needed for compression while 75%
  of the available energy is lost as heat.
 
  Methane has been used in tractors (Ref. 49, 50) and automobiles
  (Ref. 51). The gas bottles carried by such vehicles are often about 5
  ft long by 9 in diameter (1.9 ft3) charged to 2800 psi so

Re: [biofuel] Ice Age bolthole

2004-06-13 Thread bmolloy

Kia Ora Keith,
   That's Maori for 'gidday mate'. Great to bridge the
Anno Domini gap - geez, was it really 27 years? This isn't quite the forum
to reminisce but I did send you a long update on your JTF website a week or
so ago - must be stacked up in cyberspace somewhere  If it has fallen down
the dunny let me know and I'll resend.
Almost forgot, thanks for a fistful of great urls. I'm off to squirel around
the methane jungle.
Tjiers,
Bob.


 Original Message - 
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 5:02 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ice Age bolthole


 Greetings Bob

 Fancy meeting you here! LOL! What a world, eh? It sure does have its
 brighter moments.

 Folks, this young feller Bob Molloy and I worked together at the Cape
 Times in Cape Town 27 years ago just before I left South Africa, and
 it was a real delight to get an email from him a few days ago, after
 all this time. He used to live in a cottage all by itself on one of
 the more beautiful beaches in the world. Four years ago when we
 started this project we were living on another of the more beautiful
 beaches in the world.
 http://journeytoforever.org/about.html

 (But Hout Bay's better! And so was your cottage - the Beach House on
 Lantau was a ramshackle old wreck.)

 Jumping in here as a total newbie (and in reply to the Kim and Garth
Travis
 on the best bolthole during the coming Ice Age) why not think of New
 Zealand? The world's best kept secret is an English-speaking high-tech
 liberal democracy located on a group of three major islands in the
Pacific,
 with a population of four million in a land area the size of the British
 Isles (pop. 60m). Green, clean and pristine, with scenery to die for -
Lord
 of the Rings was shot here - the climate ranges from semi-tropical to
 temperate.

 You're right, by all accounts. That movie had Americans calling their
 travel agencies trying to book a holiday in Rivendell. And now you've
 gone and told them where it is!




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Re: [biofuel] Ice Age bolthole

2004-06-13 Thread George Smiley

Hi Keith
Whether NZ is an ice age bolthole or not they have a lot of methane there:
its a country of 50 million sheep (and as the joke goes, three million of
them are human beings).  The problem is connecting all those millions of
little perambulating little generators to a pipeline.
Tasmania is the same latitude, not far away, and the mountains are a lot
smaller but are well scoured by glaciers, so it must have been pretty cold
in this end of the world  ten thousand or so years ago.

Sure you can compress methane, just that there are easier ways.  And as for
the Harold Bates car driven by methane at atmospheric pressure, that gives
about 18 grams per cubic foot.  A 40 cubic foot bag would fill the entire
'53 Hillman with the passenger seats removed for about 600 grams of
hydrocarbons, which should supply a similar magnitude of energy to  a litre
of petrol, and a Hillman ought to get about 10 km.per litre.  Considering
the wait for the chicken manure to anaerobically ferment in the generator,
I'd save my thirty dollars, put the three gallons of chicken --- on the
garden and ride a bike.

Instead of considering how we can continue to drive our behemoths (like 6
litre Fords or ancient Hillmans) on a substitute for dino fuel, just
consider how far you could go with say a recliner bike with a 50cc or
smaller assist running from say a 5 litre tank of liquid propane behind the
seat.   Odourless, easy and very advantageous- I converted a new 2 cyl. 17
hp petrol engine to LP - it took an ordinary barbecue type regulator to a
solenoid shut off valve to demand regulator like a scuba mouthpiece (with
priming button)  -to a little 3/8ths tube loctited into the carby in place
of the main jet, and a hollow idle needle, the kit cost about $300 and I
never would have paid that much if I had known how simple it was.
That was it, except for a little tapered bolt with a lock nut in a brass
block with  hose spuds that could restrict flow to the main jet, and that
was set up for me by the local gas guy who put his meter against the exhaust
and set it so the CO disappeared.  That engine would have had about 5000
hours of hard work on it over 15 years and has never needed to be touched,
the oil was always fairly clean even being slack with oil changes, over 100
hours apart, no filter, still going strong.  Try that with your diesels.
Regards

From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ice Age bolthole


 George Smiley wrote:

 Trouble with methane - it's the lightest of all those 'anes' and the
amount
 you can put in a car tire will get you about as far as you walked with
the
 tire.  Saw a picture of them cooking with biogas in Vietnam - stored in a
 huge clear plastic bag suspended over the range and the gas came out when
 they pulled a rope that squeezed the bag.  If it ever lit up it would all
be
 gone before anybody could grab an extinguisher.

 That's not how it's usually done with the polyethylene bag digesters.


http://www.ias.unu.edu/proceedings/icibs/ibs/info/ecuador/install-polydig.htm
 How to install a polyethylene biogas plant

 http://www.fao.org/WAICENT/FAOINFO/AGRICULT/AGA/AGAP/FRG/Recycle/biodi
 g/manual.htm
 Biodigester installation manual

 http://www.husdyr.kvl.dk/htm/php/tune96/13An.htm
 The Introduction of Low-Cost Polyethylene Tube Biodigesters on
 Small-Scale Farms in Vietnam

 Better to have a weight on
 a diaphragm in the top of your digester kind of like the big natural gas
 storage tanks they have all over London that slide up and down a tower
like
 a caisson into a water tank

 Different system. As ever, there's probably no best
 one-size-fits-all solution, but the polytubes have many advantages,
 one of them being that they float: Among the polyethylene digesters
 installed, 5% of them were floated in ponds adding an innovative
 feature to the development. According to Khoi et al (1989), in the
 Mekong Delta where most land is low, the application of concrete
 digesters was very difficult especially when the water level went up.
 The floating digesters solved this problem and as they also required
 little space they were very well suited for low-lying areas. More
 than 90% of the plants were installed in rural areas indicating the
 good fit of the technology under these conditions.

 But it is purely a stationary fuel.

 I don't think so. That might be its most efficient use, but it
 certainly can be used as a transport fuel. For instance:

 Methane, the lightest organic gas, has two fundamental drawbacks to
 its use in heat engines: it has a relatively low fuel value (Table
 7), and it takes nearly 5,000 psi to liquefy it for easy storage.
 (87.7 ft3 methane gas = 1 gallon of liquid methane or 1 ft3 methane
 gas = 9 tablespoons liquid methane.) So a great deal of storage is
 required of methane for a given amount of work. For comparison,
 propane liquefies around 250 psi. Consider the following example
 where

Re: [biofuel] Ice Age bolthole

2004-06-13 Thread Kim Garth Travis

At 06:44 AM 6/13/2004, you wrote:
Instead of considering how we can continue to drive our behemoths (like 6
litre Fords or ancient Hillmans) on a substitute for dino fuel, just
consider how far you could go with say a recliner bike with a 50cc or
smaller assist running from say a 5 litre tank of liquid propane behind the
seat.


Unfortunately, some of us have to have larger vehicles.  I can not take 
produce to market, or cows or sheep to the processor on a bicycle.  If you 
live in an urban area, the bicycle or small scooter is a great idea, but 
for those of us that are rural,  we do need our larger 
vehicles.  Especially those of us that produce food, as it does not do much 
good if we can't get the food to market.

I have considered buying a motorcycle to get around and hopefully save 
fuel.  When I took a good look at where and when I drive, I realized that I 
always have to pick up more stuff than will fit on a motorcycle.  I suppose 
if I had more of a social life and just went visiting or such, the smaller 
vehicle would be worth it, but one must take into account the energy cost 
of building vehicles as well.

I do use a Honda civic when I can, and my ford ranger the rest of the 
time.  I borrow a vehicle or rent one if I need something bigger which is 
rare.  I have found that a trailer is a real energy saver as opposed to a 
larger truck.

Bright Blessings,
Kim
Kim 



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Re: [biofuel] Ice Age bolthole

2004-06-12 Thread George Smiley

Trouble with methane - it's the lightest of all those 'anes' and the amount
you can put in a car tire will get you about as far as you walked with the
tire.  Saw a picture of them cooking with biogas in Vietnam - stored in a
huge clear plastic bag suspended over the range and the gas came out when
they pulled a rope that squeezed the bag.  If it ever lit up it would all be
gone before anybody could grab an extinguisher.  Better to have a weight on
a diaphragm in the top of your digester kind of like the big natural gas
storage tanks they have all over London that slide up and down a tower like
a caisson into a water tank
But it is purely a stationary fuel.

- Original Message - 
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 3:02 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ice Age bolthole


 Greetings Bob

 Fancy meeting you here! LOL! What a world, eh? It sure does have its
 brighter moments.

 Folks, this young feller Bob Molloy and I worked together at the Cape
 Times in Cape Town 27 years ago just before I left South Africa, and
 it was a real delight to get an email from him a few days ago, after
 all this time. He used to live in a cottage all by itself on one of
 the more beautiful beaches in the world. Four years ago when we
 started this project we were living on another of the more beautiful
 beaches in the world.
 http://journeytoforever.org/about.html

 (But Hout Bay's better! And so was your cottage - the Beach House on
 Lantau was a ramshackle old wreck.)

 Jumping in here as a total newbie (and in reply to the Kim and Garth
Travis
 on the best bolthole during the coming Ice Age) why not think of New
 Zealand? The world's best kept secret is an English-speaking high-tech
 liberal democracy located on a group of three major islands in the
Pacific,
 with a population of four million in a land area the size of the British
 Isles (pop. 60m). Green, clean and pristine, with scenery to die for -
Lord
 of the Rings was shot here - the climate ranges from semi-tropical to
 temperate.

 You're right, by all accounts. That movie had Americans calling their
 travel agencies trying to book a holiday in Rivendell. And now you've
 gone and told them where it is!

 Bob.
 PS: forget bio-diesel, look at methane gas. A clean burning fuel that
runs
 any petrol engine with but minor modifications, easily transported in old
 rubber car tubes, is available free from any city garbage dump (and your
own
 household septic tank if you have one) and can be generated in your own
 backyard by digging a large hole and filling it with animal/human faeces
 and/or green vegetation. For more information try Brian at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Or here:

 Put a chicken in your tank
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#bate

 Methane Digesters For Fuel Gas and Fertilizer -- With Complete
 Instructions For Two Working Models
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#methanefry

 Nepal Biogas Plant -- Construction Manual
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#nepgas

 Jean Pain: France's King of Green Gold
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#pain

 And loads more to come.

 But you don't see people doing it, do you? Lots of people visit those
 pages, lots of inquiries all the time about Bate's chicken car, but
 it never seems to go any further.

 Same with woodgas:
 http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html#woodgas

 Millions of vehicles used woodgas in Europe and elsewhere in WW2, but
 now? A few demos, that's all.

 Anyway, don't forget biodiesel, nor any of these technologies - it's
 often said here that there's no one-size-fits-all solution for
 biofuels, bio-energy or alternative/renewable energy, a rational
 energy future will need them all, in whatever combinations best fit
 the circumstances. I'm sure that's right.

 Regards

 Keith






 *




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 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

 Biofuels list archives:
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Re: [biofuel] Ice Age bolthole

2004-06-12 Thread Keith Addison

George Smiley wrote:

Trouble with methane - it's the lightest of all those 'anes' and the amount
you can put in a car tire will get you about as far as you walked with the
tire.  Saw a picture of them cooking with biogas in Vietnam - stored in a
huge clear plastic bag suspended over the range and the gas came out when
they pulled a rope that squeezed the bag.  If it ever lit up it would all be
gone before anybody could grab an extinguisher.

That's not how it's usually done with the polyethylene bag digesters.

http://www.ias.unu.edu/proceedings/icibs/ibs/info/ecuador/install-polydig.htm
How to install a polyethylene biogas plant

http://www.fao.org/WAICENT/FAOINFO/AGRICULT/AGA/AGAP/FRG/Recycle/biodi 
g/manual.htm
Biodigester installation manual

http://www.husdyr.kvl.dk/htm/php/tune96/13An.htm
The Introduction of Low-Cost Polyethylene Tube Biodigesters on 
Small-Scale Farms in Vietnam

Better to have a weight on
a diaphragm in the top of your digester kind of like the big natural gas
storage tanks they have all over London that slide up and down a tower like
a caisson into a water tank

Different system. As ever, there's probably no best 
one-size-fits-all solution, but the polytubes have many advantages, 
one of them being that they float: Among the polyethylene digesters 
installed, 5% of them were floated in ponds adding an innovative 
feature to the development. According to Khoi et al (1989), in the 
Mekong Delta where most land is low, the application of concrete 
digesters was very difficult especially when the water level went up. 
The floating digesters solved this problem and as they also required 
little space they were very well suited for low-lying areas. More 
than 90% of the plants were installed in rural areas indicating the 
good fit of the technology under these conditions.

But it is purely a stationary fuel.

I don't think so. That might be its most efficient use, but it 
certainly can be used as a transport fuel. For instance:

Methane, the lightest organic gas, has two fundamental drawbacks to 
its use in heat engines: it has a relatively low fuel value (Table 
7), and it takes nearly 5,000 psi to liquefy it for easy storage. 
(87.7 ft3 methane gas = 1 gallon of liquid methane or 1 ft3 methane 
gas = 9 tablespoons liquid methane.) So a great deal of storage is 
required of methane for a given amount of work. For comparison, 
propane liquefies around 250 psi. Consider the following example 
where methane is compressed to just 1,000 psi in a small bottle and 
used to power a rototiller of 6 brake horsepower:

Example [see website for data]

At 25% compressor efficiency it would take 0.52 hp-hr to compress 
the gas (1320 BTU). In other words, it would take 1320 BTU to 
compress 25,300 BTU worth of gas that provides 6,350 BTU worth of 
work. Clearly the system is not very efficient in the sense that 
21% of the resulting work energy is needed for compression while 75% 
of the available energy is lost as heat.

Methane has been used in tractors (Ref. 49, 50) and automobiles 
(Ref. 51). The gas bottles carried by such vehicles are often about 5 
ft long by 9 in diameter (1.9 ft3) charged to 2800 psi so that about 
420 ft3 of methane is carried (about 3-1/2 gal. gasoline). However, 
it seems that the most efficient use of methane would be in 
stationary heat engines located near the digester (e.g., compressors 
and generators).

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/MethaneDigesters/MD4.html
Methane Digesters for Fuel Gas and Fertilizer - Chapter 7-8

Refs.:

49. Schmidt, F.  Eggersgluess, W. 1954. Gas From Agricultural Waste. 
Gas Journal 279:2861.

50. Rosenberg, G. 1952. Methane Production from Farm Wastes as a 
Source of Tractor Fuel. J. Min. Agric. (England) 58:487-94.

51. Imhoff, K.  C. Keefer. 1952. Sludge Gas as Fuel for Motor 
Vehicles. Wat. Sewage Wks. 99:284.

There'll be many more than that now.

You didn't check those refs I supplied it seems. Eg.:

Put a chicken in your tank -- Eccentric British inventor Harold Bate 
found a way of converting chicken droppings to gas -- and runs his 
car on it. He claims chicken power will run a car faster, cleaner, 
and better than gasoline. Bate says he has driven his 1953 Hillman at 
speeds up to 75 mph without the use of gasoline.
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/methane_bate.html

Bate's invention is simple, it's incredibly inexpensive... and it 
works. Hundreds of people, who are now driving chicken-powered cars 
the world over after contacting Mr. Bate directly, can vouch for 
that.
http://ww2.green-trust.org:8383/2000/biofuel/batesmethane.htm
Bate's Methane Car

Best

Keith



- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 3:02 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ice Age bolthole


  Greetings Bob
 
  Fancy meeting you here! LOL! What a world, eh? It sure does have its
  brighter moments.
 
  Folks, this young feller Bob Molloy and I worked

Re: [biofuel] Ice Age bolthole

2004-06-11 Thread Keith Addison

Greetings Bob

Fancy meeting you here! LOL! What a world, eh? It sure does have its 
brighter moments.

Folks, this young feller Bob Molloy and I worked together at the Cape 
Times in Cape Town 27 years ago just before I left South Africa, and 
it was a real delight to get an email from him a few days ago, after 
all this time. He used to live in a cottage all by itself on one of 
the more beautiful beaches in the world. Four years ago when we 
started this project we were living on another of the more beautiful 
beaches in the world.
http://journeytoforever.org/about.html

(But Hout Bay's better! And so was your cottage - the Beach House on 
Lantau was a ramshackle old wreck.)

Jumping in here as a total newbie (and in reply to the Kim and Garth Travis
on the best bolthole during the coming Ice Age) why not think of New
Zealand? The world's best kept secret is an English-speaking high-tech
liberal democracy located on a group of three major islands in the Pacific,
with a population of four million in a land area the size of the British
Isles (pop. 60m). Green, clean and pristine, with scenery to die for - Lord
of the Rings was shot here - the climate ranges from semi-tropical to
temperate.

You're right, by all accounts. That movie had Americans calling their 
travel agencies trying to book a holiday in Rivendell. And now you've 
gone and told them where it is!

Bob.
PS: forget bio-diesel, look at methane gas. A clean burning fuel that runs
any petrol engine with but minor modifications, easily transported in old
rubber car tubes, is available free from any city garbage dump (and your own
household septic tank if you have one) and can be generated in your own
backyard by digging a large hole and filling it with animal/human faeces
and/or green vegetation. For more information try Brian at [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or here:

Put a chicken in your tank
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#bate

Methane Digesters For Fuel Gas and Fertilizer -- With Complete 
Instructions For Two Working Models
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#methanefry

Nepal Biogas Plant -- Construction Manual
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#nepgas

Jean Pain: France's King of Green Gold
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#pain

And loads more to come.

But you don't see people doing it, do you? Lots of people visit those 
pages, lots of inquiries all the time about Bate's chicken car, but 
it never seems to go any further.

Same with woodgas:
http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html#woodgas

Millions of vehicles used woodgas in Europe and elsewhere in WW2, but 
now? A few demos, that's all.

Anyway, don't forget biodiesel, nor any of these technologies - it's 
often said here that there's no one-size-fits-all solution for 
biofuels, bio-energy or alternative/renewable energy, a rational 
energy future will need them all, in whatever combinations best fit 
the circumstances. I'm sure that's right.

Regards

Keith






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