Re: [SWCollect] I don't like this at all...

2004-05-10 Thread C.E. Forman
When the high-enders get their own copies of given titles will they leave those alone in next time appearings or do they gather everything they can get, even multiple times? I think once the high rollers are out of the way the prices will come down. Depends on the bidders though... I know

Re: [SWCollect] I don't like this at all...

2004-05-10 Thread C.E. Forman
In any case though, I propose we start an investigation, and over time, formulate a ever-growing list of these people and black list them so That's a bad idea. Many of them simply collect this way, or do so intentionally so that they can raise money to buy the software they've always

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread C.E. Forman
Man am I glad work was busy today and I missed this one. Christ. B-) Since this thread's died down as of about 6:00 today I won't help jump-start it again, except to say I'm glad to hear people find my ratings of my sale items accurate and useful. I've always tried to err toward F(S) rather

Re: [SWCollect] I don't like this at all...

2004-05-10 Thread Dan Chisarick
Most people on this list are probably collecting for reasons other than financial gain (though nothing wrong with collecting to sell for profit or a mix, especially if the profit goes to buying more games). While I'm no economic theorist, I think prices will settle down after a bit. Why? As

[SWCollect] Ouch and I Don't Like This threads

2004-05-10 Thread Stuart Feldhamer
Hmmm... If I had to summarize: Most people are unhappy that the prices are going ridiculously high. There is a big argument about whether it should be MS or M(S). Nobody sees the connection between these two threads? Stuart

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch and I Don't Like This threads

2004-05-10 Thread Marco Thorek
Stuart Feldhamer schrieb: Hmmm... If I had to summarize: Most people are unhappy that the prices are going ridiculously high. There is a big argument about whether it should be MS or M(S). Nobody sees the connection between these two threads? Yeah, we don't have real problems ;-)

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Marco Thorek
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Yup, remember Jim, when we were discussing the Moby scale (long time ago, at my storage locker I believe) You guys went to school/college together? Marco -- This message was sent to you because

Re: [SWCollect] I don't like this at all...

2004-05-10 Thread Marco Thorek
Freddie Bingham schrieb: You could stick me on that list. If I see something with a buy-it-now of $5 (that I don't need) and I know I can relist it and sell it for $60, I'll do it. Just another way to fund this ludicrous obsession of cardboard box collecting. There is nothing wrong with

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Marco Thorek
Alexander Zöller schrieb: I know what you're saying. You crack the wrap, the game is still stone mint, but it will only grade NM. There's a good reason to this however. Only with the factory wrap can a game be graded mint, because once opened, it's no longer as it comes from the factory.

RE: [SWCollect] Talk about boneheads...

2004-05-10 Thread Josh Lulewicz
Its a VERY good thing J I wouldnt have been a happy camper, thats for sure. The other bidder clearly thought it was something of value so I dont think there was cause for worry. -Original Message- From: Stephane Racle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004

Re: Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread ommail
I enjoyed reading this thread, considering that MS is one of my passions (ripping the shrinkwrap from an old game is much akin to breaking the binding on my new magazine--I've threatened to KILL people for this!) ;) I've never had the time to do it, but I always wanted to do 'The ILLUSTRATED

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread AvatarTom
In a message dated 05/10/2004 9:50:16 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You guys went to school/college together? Heh, where did you come up with that Marco? No, we live fairly close to each other, were discussing Moby scale one day while plowing through boxes of games at my

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch and I Don't Like This threads

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
Stuart Feldhamer wrote: Hmmm... If I had to summarize: Most people are unhappy that the prices are going ridiculously high. There is a big argument about whether it should be MS or M(S). Nobody sees the connection between these two threads? I don't, actually...? -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL

RE: [SWCollect] Ouch and I Don't Like This threads

2004-05-10 Thread Stuart Feldhamer
At the most superficial level, both of these are signs that the hobby is on its way to becoming more commercialized. Stuart -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:09 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Ouch and I Don't

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Dan Chisarick
Ok, generally I keep out of the grading discussions because I toss shrinkwrap on games like I would on sandwiches (in contrast to the death-threat below). Question: How do you handle funk? Basement funk (game stored in a damp cellar), smoker's house, cat used the space 10 away as a

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch and I Don't Like This threads

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
Stuart Feldhamer wrote: At the most superficial level, both of these are signs that the hobby is on its way to becoming more commercialized. A bit of a stretch, but I see your point. Maybe commercialization is a necessary step toward getting our hobby more recognized? More recognition means

Re: [SWCollect] I don't like this at all...

2004-05-10 Thread BL
Surely hope this will fade away back to normal soon. Any predictions what will happen? Is this temporary or will the prices continue to go even more insane or stay where they are? Why would you hope it fades back to normal? I think it's great - if I thought that 50 years from now all the

[SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread BL
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=4130364298 from the auction: Note: Brand new with all the original manuals/disks/box, etc. Only came out of the shrink wrap to be photographed. According to the box it works on any Apple II or III. Doh! Not the sharpest tool in the shed...

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Alexander Zöller
Aaargh... yes, that always makes me whince. There was an eBay auction way back in 2001 for a shrinked Kilrathi Saga, M(S). Apparently the seller was contacted by a guy urging him to check if the wrap was authentic and the game truly unopened. Not knowing what to look for, this poor chap cracked

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread AvatarTom
In a message dated 05/10/2004 8:21:32 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=4130364298 from the auction: " Note: Brand new with all the original manuals/disks/box, etc. Only came out of the shrink wrap to be photographed. According

RE: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Hugh Falk
Sorry to be anal, but that's one of my specialties :-) -- Mint sealed is MS not M(S). Hugh -Original Message- From: Alexander Zöller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 6:34 AM To: BL; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Ouch Aaargh... yes, that always makes me

RE: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Per-Olof Karlsson
I respectfully disagree. ;) Sealed is a flag, much like IM, MMC and so on. And surely you don't write FMMC for a Fine copy with MMC? Or perhaps NMSTC? That'd make it a lot more cryptic than necessary, imho. - Peo -Original Message- From: Hugh Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: den 10

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Alexander Zöller
Would MS indicate not only the box and contents, but also the wrap is in flawless condition? For me M(S) means the box is perfect and shrinked, while it does leave some variability for the condition of the wrap, which even if free of tears may be in lesser shape at times (store stickers, grime

Re: [SWCollect] I don't like this at all...

2004-05-10 Thread Stephane Racle
While I'm appreciative of the fact that my collection is increasing in value, I don't see high prices as a good thing. I know I don't collect for money... I wonder how many of us share your perspective? I'd much rather be able to add new items to my collection for reasonable prices. If the

RE: [SWCollect] I don't like this at all...

2004-05-10 Thread Per-Olof Karlsson
I agree. There are already quite a few people on eBay who sweep up as many bargains as they can, only to list them a week or two later for a much higher price. Kind of destroys the hobby, methinks. - Peo From: Stephane Racle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: den 10 maj 2004 18:28To: [EMAIL

RE: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Hugh Falk
Well, you can certainly disagree with the scale, but you can't disagree that MS is the way it is currently published in the scale: http://www.classicgaming.com/gotcha/conditions.htm The purpose of the scale is so we could all start using common terminology as our hobby matures. If you don't

Re: [SWCollect] I don't like this at all...

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
BL wrote: Why would you hope it fades back to normal? I think it's great - if I thought that 50 years from now all the games I've collected were going to be worth the same amount of money, I wouldn't feel any urgency to collect. I have never collected purely as an investment. I collect titles

RE: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Freddie Bingham
For me, the scale is rather useless at any rate. We buy a lot of stuff on eBay and the scale has no use there, we are lucky to be able to get a half way decent condition from the seller without offending them in some way by asking detailed questions. When trading amongst ourselves I find people

Re: [SWCollect] I don't like this at all...

2004-05-10 Thread BL
I understand your point Steph completely - but that's the nature of collecting, isn't it? I'm not sure what you percieve my perspective to be, but I started collecting just because I thought it would be really cool to have sealed copies of all the games I played growing up. I still only

Re: [SWCollect] I don't like this at all...

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
Per-Olof Karlsson wrote: I agree. There are already quite a few people on eBay who sweep up as many bargains as they can, only to list them a week or two later for a much higher price. Kind of destroys the hobby, methinks. There will always be people who want to make some money; I don't have a

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread BL
Oh no, not the M/S conversation again.. hehe, I've learned to just drop this one - yes, there's an anomoly in the scale, and no it won't be corrected. :) Brad - Original Message - From: Hugh Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 12:49 PM Subject: RE:

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wiz I've got Wiz 2 shrinked, not only that a rare demo copy :) It is Demo copies are considered rarer than typical releases? I guess that's technically true, but I hadn't encountered that mentality before. Having worked in both a Babbage's and Egghead Software in my

Re: [SWCollect] I don't like this at all...

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
BL wrote: In any case though, I propose we start an investigation, and over time, formulate a ever-growing list of these people and black list them so That's a bad idea. Many of them simply collect this way, or do so intentionally so that they can raise money to buy the software they've

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Alexander Zöller
Basically, MS means factory fresh. Right. So would you agree that both box and wrap need to be immaculate to score a MS rating? IMO the MobyScale doesn't imply this though: No noticable defects *and* sealed in original factory or store shrinkwrap or sticker. Sounds to me as if the box needs to

RE: [SWCollect] I don't like this at all...

2004-05-10 Thread Freddie Bingham
You could stick me on that list. If I see something with a buy-it-now of $5 (that I don't need) and I know I can relist it and sell it for $60, I'll do it. Just another way to fund this ludicrous obsession of cardboard box collecting. Lucasarts Museum - http://lucasarts.vintagegaming.org

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
BL wrote: Oh no, not the M/S conversation again.. hehe, I've learned to just drop this one - yes, there's an anomoly in the scale, and no it won't be corrected. :) Mint means as it comes from the factory. I don't think this fact is in dispute. Since coming from the factory also means factory

RE: [SWCollect] I don't like this at all...

2004-05-10 Thread Per-Olof Karlsson
Oh, indeed! I didn't mean it that way. What I meant (but between the lines I realize now) is that it kind of kills the market at times. In the end all the bargains are gone, and all we're stuck with is some resellers who are only in it for a huge lift-up. That is what I dislike. As long as we have

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
Alexander Zöller wrote: Right. So would you agree that both box and wrap need to be immaculate to score a MS rating? IMO the MobyScale doesn't imply this though: No noticable defects *and* sealed in original factory or store shrinkwrap or sticker. You are correct. Not immaculate, just still

Re: [SWCollect] I don't like this at all...

2004-05-10 Thread AvatarTom
In a message dated 05/10/2004 12:17:17 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You could stick me on that list If I see something with a buy-it-now of $5 (that I don't need) and I know I can relist it and sell it for $60, I'll do it. Just another way to fund this ludicrous obsession

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread BL
Jim, we've been over this a few times before. Say I have 2 wrapped boxes, and rip the wrap off one, then rip the wrap off the other a year later - the first one's box is still in Near Mint, while you are telling me that the one I just ripped the wrap off is should be considered the same, since

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Alexander Zöller
Great, we seem to be in agreement on most issues ;) You are not wrong. Wrap, of any binding nature, implies that the contents of the box are complete and intact. If you have wrap but it is not binding (ie falling off and you can open the box around it) then it can't be considered MS because

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Peter Olafson
To me, "mint" means simply no blemishes or defects in the packaging or media. In fact, I'd argue that a shrinked game can't be verified as "mint" because you can't inspect the contents without breaking the shrinkwrap, and hence can't know whether (for example) the slider on one of the disk

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
BL wrote: Jim, we've been over this a few times before. Say I have 2 wrapped boxes, and rip the wrap off one, then rip the wrap off the other a year later - the first one's box is still in Near Mint, while you are telling me that the one I just ripped the wrap off is should be considered the

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Alexander Zöller
I know what you're saying. You crack the wrap, the game is still stone mint, but it will only grade NM. There's a good reason to this however. Only with the factory wrap can a game be graded mint, because once opened, it's no longer as it comes from the factory. So I'm with Jim on this one.

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread BL
Like I said; I gave up on this - there's an anomoly with the scale, and it's not going to change ;) Brad - Original Message - From: Jim Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Ouch BL wrote: Jim, we've been over

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
Alexander Zöller wrote: I presume you are saying VG (S) is also wrong because as per the scale, the game would grade MS regardless of how dirty the wrap is, No, that is not what I am saying. VG (S) means a box that has a few defects (usually crushing, a dent, etc.) but still has the shrinkwrap.

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
Peter Olafson wrote: To me, mint means simply no blemishes or defects in the packaging or media. That has been a traditional definition in many hobbies, yes. However, most examples of that usage in other hobbies were for hobbies for which there was no shrinkwrap. In numismatics (coin

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Holger Bachert
To me, mint means simply no blemishes or defects in the packaging or media. Absolutely. Mint should always mean the complete package - what's a shrinkwrap worth if the rest of the item literally falls apart? Frankly, I'd prefer a clean but opened specimen over a shrinkwrapped one any day. In

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Alexander Zöller
Jim Leonard wrote: No, that is not what I am saying. VG (S) means a box that has a few defects (usually crushing, a dent, etc.) but still has the shrinkwrap. [and] Well, G (S) to describe the WRAP would be incorrect usage of the Scale. Acknowledged. No downgrading of a game when only the

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Alexander Zoller
Holger Bachert wrote: In my opinion the whole shrinkwrap issue is way overrated - especially when every dodo can reshrink whatever he wants (and that happens all the time). just my 2 ct of course. Very true. I'm only making a fuss about this because of what the actual factory wrap means to

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
Holger Bachert wrote: To me, mint means simply no blemishes or defects in the packaging or media. especially when every dodo can reshrink whatever he wants (and that happens all the time). Yes, which is why I am working (slowly) on a FAQ/web page of how to determine what wrap is original and

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
Alexander Zöller wrote: Good idea! I've never seen that usage before, but (wrap: G) makes perfect sense and is valid. If you agree, I can add it to the FAQ section of the MobyScale -- let me know. That would be nice! It would really help for the few cases in which one may want to also describe

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Alexander Zöller
Jim Leonard wrote: Excellent. I've added it to the MobyScale, which now inches up to revision 1.03. The full permanent location of the MobyScale, as always, is http://www.mobygames.com/info/MobyScale;. Very many thanks. Back to more important topics we go ;-) Alexander

RE: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Freddie Bingham
I still maintain the guide is confusing since you have one situation where a grade and modifier can not be used together. The highest level should simply be Mint and if sealed it gets the (S). If you insist on the Mint Sealed rating then it should be moved out of the same category as NM, F, VG,

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread hughfalk
Jim, please just use the GOTCHA main page: http://www.classicgaming.com/gotcha/ since that has the menu to get you to the CURIOUS pages. And my apologies to those new readers who didn't know about the Pandora's box I was opening with my little comment about MS :-) Hugh -Original

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread BL
That's been my exact gripe with the scale since the first day I discovered it. Brad - Original Message - From: Freddie Bingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 3:37 PM Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Ouch I still maintain the guide is confusing since you

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread hughfalk
I understand where you're coming from, but there is no discrepency with the Mobyscale if you keep this basic premise in mind: Removal of the seal is considered a blemish. Which means: 1) You can't have M without S...it is impossible so why allow it? 2) This also applies to games that came

RE: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Freddie Bingham
Again .. I still disagree for the simple fact that a game can re-shrinkwrapped and one can obtain the same quality of wrap that most games were shipped in (the softer, more pliable wrap). Take a hole punch to it and you will fool most people. Add to that all of the games that are floating about

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread AvatarTom
In a message dated 05/10/2004 4:29:02 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Maybe there is confusion over why the term Mint was chosen? Because "mint condition" implies, in numismatics anyway, "freshly minted" or "in the same condition as it was created in the mint". The pinnacle

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread BL
Fred, I think we're talking about pieces here that arn't ASSUMED to be re-shrinkwrapped. Someone can fake a whole box release if the wanted to, including components and stuff, but it doesn't mean the other grades are invalid. - Original Message - From: Freddie Bingham [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread hughfalk
If a game is re-shrinked, it is not MS. I can tell a reshrink job 99% of the time (having worked at EB myself). However, if I'm unsure, I'll make a note that the shrink may not be original (in that case, the buyer/trader is aware) or just open it myself. There is always the chance that

[SWCollect] I don't like this at all...

2004-05-10 Thread Josh Lulewicz
What is with the sudden surge outrageous prices on Sierra stuff??? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=8103599251category=4 315sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AITrd=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=8103019861category=4 315sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AITrd=1 I mean

Re: [SWCollect] I don't like this at all...

2004-05-10 Thread Jukka Eronen
Yeah this is crazy. And concerning. First the prices doubled and now there's been over 500% rise _from that_ in many titles recently. Is it perhaps something to do with the Drash-appearings? Anyways public awareness of these games and collecting urge has rised significantly lately for some

Re: [SWCollect] YEAH-HA-HAAAAA!

2004-05-10 Thread Vincent Joguin
At 16:38 09/05/2004 -0500, you wrote: Heh, just realized, God I hope it's in English. B-) I'm almost certain it's a French version. Games are now always translated here, at least PC games, since about 1996. One of the first games for which I was forced to buy the translated version was King's