Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-11 Thread Marco Thorek
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: In a message dated 05/10/2004 9:50:16 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You guys went to school/college together? Heh, where did you come up with that Marco? No, we live fairly close to each other, were discussing Moby scale one day while

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-11 Thread Jim Leonard
Freddie Bingham wrote: Again .. I still disagree for the simple fact that a game can re-shrinkwrapped and one can obtain the same quality of wrap that most games That is not true at all -- I can identify with greater than 99% accuracy whether or not something has been re-wrapped. And although

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-11 Thread Jim Leonard
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is anyone interested in doing something like this? If we each took a certain grade, we could accomplish a lot: Yes, this was the main reason I registered www.softwarecollecting.org -- to create an illustrated FAQ of all this stuff, and also a FAQ derived from the

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-11 Thread Jim Leonard
Dan Chisarick wrote: Ok, generally I keep out of the grading discussions because I toss shrinkwrap on games like I would on sandwiches (in contrast to the death-threat below). Question: How do you handle funk? Basement funk (game stored in a damp cellar), smoker's house, cat used the space

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-11 Thread Alexander Zoller
: [SWCollect] Ouch Ok, generally I keep out of the grading discussions because I toss shrinkwrap on games like I would on sandwiches (in contrast to the death-threat below). Question: How do you handle funk? Basement funk (game stored in a damp cellar), smoker's house, cat used the space 10 away

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread C.E. Forman
] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 4:46 PM Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Ouch Again .. I still disagree for the simple fact that a game can re-shrinkwrapped and one can obtain the same quality of wrap that most games were shipped in (the softer, more pliable wrap). Take a hole punch to it and you

[SWCollect] Ouch and I Don't Like This threads

2004-05-10 Thread Stuart Feldhamer
Hmmm... If I had to summarize: Most people are unhappy that the prices are going ridiculously high. There is a big argument about whether it should be MS or M(S). Nobody sees the connection between these two threads? Stuart

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch and I Don't Like This threads

2004-05-10 Thread Marco Thorek
Stuart Feldhamer schrieb: Hmmm... If I had to summarize: Most people are unhappy that the prices are going ridiculously high. There is a big argument about whether it should be MS or M(S). Nobody sees the connection between these two threads? Yeah, we don't have real problems ;-)

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Marco Thorek
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Yup, remember Jim, when we were discussing the Moby scale (long time ago, at my storage locker I believe) You guys went to school/college together? Marco -- This message was sent to you because

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Marco Thorek
Alexander Zöller schrieb: I know what you're saying. You crack the wrap, the game is still stone mint, but it will only grade NM. There's a good reason to this however. Only with the factory wrap can a game be graded mint, because once opened, it's no longer as it comes from the factory.

Re: Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread ommail
] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Ouch Freddie Bingham wrote: I still maintain the guide is confusing since you have one situation where a grade and modifier can not be used together. Taken at face value, yes, I can see how this might be confusing. However, if someone understands the motivation

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread AvatarTom
In a message dated 05/10/2004 9:50:16 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You guys went to school/college together? Heh, where did you come up with that Marco? No, we live fairly close to each other, were discussing Moby scale one day while plowing through boxes of games at my

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch and I Don't Like This threads

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
Stuart Feldhamer wrote: Hmmm... If I had to summarize: Most people are unhappy that the prices are going ridiculously high. There is a big argument about whether it should be MS or M(S). Nobody sees the connection between these two threads? I don't, actually...? -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL

RE: [SWCollect] Ouch and I Don't Like This threads

2004-05-10 Thread Stuart Feldhamer
At the most superficial level, both of these are signs that the hobby is on its way to becoming more commercialized. Stuart -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:09 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Ouch and I Don't

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Dan Chisarick
Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2004/05/10 Mon PM 05:28:20 EDT To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Ouch Freddie Bingham wrote: I still maintain the guide is confusing since you have one situation where a grade and modifier can not be used together. Taken at face value, yes, I can see how

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch and I Don't Like This threads

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
Stuart Feldhamer wrote: At the most superficial level, both of these are signs that the hobby is on its way to becoming more commercialized. A bit of a stretch, but I see your point. Maybe commercialization is a necessary step toward getting our hobby more recognized? More recognition means

[SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread BL
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=4130364298 from the auction: Note: Brand new with all the original manuals/disks/box, etc. Only came out of the shrink wrap to be photographed. According to the box it works on any Apple II or III. Doh! Not the sharpest tool in the shed...

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Alexander Zöller
the wrap and happily added a note to his listing that, yes, everything inside was in mint condition. Alexander -Original Message- From: BL [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 3:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [SWCollect] Ouch http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread AvatarTom
In a message dated 05/10/2004 8:21:32 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=4130364298 from the auction: " Note: Brand new with all the original manuals/disks/box, etc. Only came out of the shrink wrap to be photographed. According

RE: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Hugh Falk
Sorry to be anal, but that's one of my specialties :-) -- Mint sealed is MS not M(S). Hugh -Original Message- From: Alexander Zöller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 6:34 AM To: BL; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Ouch Aaargh... yes, that always makes me

RE: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Per-Olof Karlsson
maj 2004 17:27 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Ouch Sorry to be anal, but that's one of my specialties :-) -- Mint sealed is MS not M(S). Hugh -Original Message- From: Alexander Zöller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 6:34 AM To: BL; [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Alexander Zöller
that has settled into the wrap, age discoloration, etc.). Alexander -Original Message- From: Hugh Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 5:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Ouch Sorry to be anal, but that's one of my specialties :-) -- Mint sealed

RE: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Hugh Falk
. For example, you could put NM (S) or F (S). Hugh -Original Message- From: Per-Olof Karlsson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 8:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Ouch I respectfully disagree. ;) Sealed is a flag, much like IM, MMC and so

RE: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Freddie Bingham
PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 9:14 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Ouch Would MS indicate not only the box and contents, but also the wrap is in flawless condition? For me M(S) means the box is perfect and shrinked, while it does leave some variability

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread BL
: [SWCollect] Ouch Well, you can certainly disagree with the scale, but you can't disagree that MS is the way it is currently published in the scale: http://www.classicgaming.com/gotcha/conditions.htm The purpose of the scale is so we could all start using common terminology as our hobby

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wiz I've got Wiz 2 shrinked, not only that a rare demo copy :) It is Demo copies are considered rarer than typical releases? I guess that's technically true, but I hadn't encountered that mentality before. Having worked in both a Babbage's and Egghead Software in my

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Alexander Zöller
, that is. And Jim, once opened, it can no longer be mint. No question about that. Alexander -Original Message- From: Hugh Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 6:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Ouch Well, you can certainly disagree

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
BL wrote: Oh no, not the M/S conversation again.. hehe, I've learned to just drop this one - yes, there's an anomoly in the scale, and no it won't be corrected. :) Mint means as it comes from the factory. I don't think this fact is in dispute. Since coming from the factory also means factory

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
Alexander Zöller wrote: Right. So would you agree that both box and wrap need to be immaculate to score a MS rating? IMO the MobyScale doesn't imply this though: No noticable defects *and* sealed in original factory or store shrinkwrap or sticker. You are correct. Not immaculate, just still

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread BL
Mint is only possible with S? My old arguement was that M should be a grade alone, while S a modifier; applyable to any grade. Brad - Original Message - From: Jim Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Ouch BL wrote

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Alexander Zöller
Great, we seem to be in agreement on most issues ;) You are not wrong. Wrap, of any binding nature, implies that the contents of the box are complete and intact. If you have wrap but it is not binding (ie falling off and you can open the box around it) then it can't be considered MS because

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Peter Olafson
To me, "mint" means simply no blemishes or defects in the packaging or media. In fact, I'd argue that a shrinked game can't be verified as "mint" because you can't inspect the contents without breaking the shrinkwrap, and hence can't know whether (for example) the slider on one of the disk

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
BL wrote: Jim, we've been over this a few times before. Say I have 2 wrapped boxes, and rip the wrap off one, then rip the wrap off the other a year later - the first one's box is still in Near Mint, while you are telling me that the one I just ripped the wrap off is should be considered the

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Alexander Zöller
. Alexander -Original Message- From: BL [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 7:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Ouch Jim, we've been over this a few times before. Say I have 2 wrapped boxes, and rip the wrap off one, then rip the wrap off the other a year

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread BL
Like I said; I gave up on this - there's an anomoly with the scale, and it's not going to change ;) Brad - Original Message - From: Jim Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Ouch BL wrote: Jim, we've been over

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
Alexander Zöller wrote: I presume you are saying VG (S) is also wrong because as per the scale, the game would grade MS regardless of how dirty the wrap is, No, that is not what I am saying. VG (S) means a box that has a few defects (usually crushing, a dent, etc.) but still has the shrinkwrap.

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
Peter Olafson wrote: To me, mint means simply no blemishes or defects in the packaging or media. That has been a traditional definition in many hobbies, yes. However, most examples of that usage in other hobbies were for hobbies for which there was no shrinkwrap. In numismatics (coin

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Holger Bachert
To me, mint means simply no blemishes or defects in the packaging or media. Absolutely. Mint should always mean the complete package - what's a shrinkwrap worth if the rest of the item literally falls apart? Frankly, I'd prefer a clean but opened specimen over a shrinkwrapped one any day. In

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Alexander Zöller
Jim Leonard wrote: No, that is not what I am saying. VG (S) means a box that has a few defects (usually crushing, a dent, etc.) but still has the shrinkwrap. [and] Well, G (S) to describe the WRAP would be incorrect usage of the Scale. Acknowledged. No downgrading of a game when only the

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Alexander Zoller
Holger Bachert wrote: In my opinion the whole shrinkwrap issue is way overrated - especially when every dodo can reshrink whatever he wants (and that happens all the time). just my 2 ct of course. Very true. I'm only making a fuss about this because of what the actual factory wrap means to

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
Holger Bachert wrote: To me, mint means simply no blemishes or defects in the packaging or media. especially when every dodo can reshrink whatever he wants (and that happens all the time). Yes, which is why I am working (slowly) on a FAQ/web page of how to determine what wrap is original and

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Jim Leonard
Alexander Zöller wrote: Good idea! I've never seen that usage before, but (wrap: G) makes perfect sense and is valid. If you agree, I can add it to the FAQ section of the MobyScale -- let me know. That would be nice! It would really help for the few cases in which one may want to also describe

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Alexander Zöller
Jim Leonard wrote: Excellent. I've added it to the MobyScale, which now inches up to revision 1.03. The full permanent location of the MobyScale, as always, is http://www.mobygames.com/info/MobyScale;. Very many thanks. Back to more important topics we go ;-) Alexander

RE: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Freddie Bingham
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Ouch Jim Leonard wrote: Excellent. I've added it to the MobyScale, which now inches up to revision 1.03. The full permanent location of the MobyScale, as always, is http://www.mobygames.com/info/MobyScale;. Very many thanks. Back

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread hughfalk
- From: Jim Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 10, 2004 12:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Ouch Alexander Zöller wrote: Would MS indicate not only the box and contents, but also the wrap is in flawless condition? For me M(S) means the box is perfect and shrinked, while

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread BL
That's been my exact gripe with the scale since the first day I discovered it. Brad - Original Message - From: Freddie Bingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 3:37 PM Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Ouch I still maintain the guide is confusing since you

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread hughfalk
are Mint when we've all agreed (in the past) that they're not. Hugh -Original Message- From: BL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 10, 2004 4:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Ouch That's been my exact gripe with the scale since the first day I discovered it. Brad

RE: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread Freddie Bingham
://lucasarts.vintagegaming.org -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 2:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Ouch Freddie Bingham wrote: I still maintain the guide is confusing since you have one situation

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread AvatarTom
In a message dated 05/10/2004 4:29:02 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Maybe there is confusion over why the term Mint was chosen? Because "mint condition" implies, in numismatics anyway, "freshly minted" or "in the same condition as it was created in the mint". The pinnacle

Re: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread BL
] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 5:46 PM Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Ouch Again .. I still disagree for the simple fact that a game can re-shrinkwrapped and one can obtain the same quality of wrap that most games were shipped in (the softer, more pliable wrap). Take a hole punch

RE: [SWCollect] Ouch

2004-05-10 Thread hughfalk
if I'm concerned about C.E.'s ratings. Hugh -Original Message- From: Freddie Bingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 10, 2004 5:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Ouch Again .. I still disagree for the simple fact that a game can re-shrinkwrapped and one can obtain the same